THE THINKING OF AN AVOIDANT ATTACHER

[@flowerpetal5912]

I’ve been so wrecked with a recent ending of a relationship with an avoidant attachment. I thought I was more secure but after this, absolutely shattered my world. These videos help so much. When I’m feeling the worst, I search to these videos for some kind of light in the storm. Thank you.

[@dawnstonerock4253]

I’m there too. We can do better and heal and move on! Best wishes to you!

[@victoriarowe7708]

Aww my heart comes out to you so much 😢 that’s exactly what I’m going through I’m 8 weeks in today and these videos are really helping me heal too I know I’ve got a long way to go but when I start feeling really down again I come back to kens videos too these are by far the best on KZbin he does some good ones too on instagram too I love the lives on insta because he does the Q and As at the end Ken has even answered a couple of my questions that Ive asked in the live chat and it’s really helped me I don’t know what I would of done if it weren’t for these they help bring me back round to the fact that none of this was my fault your not alone ❤

[@Growwithgrace101]

Oh it is traumatising! 8 months NC and only just seeing the reality and healing. He has no idea the damage he did. I am angry as he'll now. I made it so easy and smoothed it over for him. 😢 Stay strong you deserve better .

[@DarkCentaur24]

Same here, trust me were gonna come out stronger on the othrr end hang on❤❤

[@Growwithgrace101]

@MENTAL-STRENGTH101 yes we are!

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

Ironic they have a fear of "something is wrong with me", and yet their behaviours shows just that! That there IS something wrong with them! Self fulfilling prophecy.

[@0Demiyah0]

100% Just like Preoccupied fearing abandonment and suffocating their relationships to the point they get abandoned. Or like Disorganized who fear the other shoe to drop any moment, and then create havoc out of nowhere to make the shoe drop. It is scarily ironic how our fears dictate our outcomes

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

@@0Demiyah0 Are you an Avoidant ???

[@0Demiyah0]

@@rupertperiwinkle4477 I am earned Secure, but I used to be Disorganized with a major Avoidant lean. I understand the frustration of dating people who seem too stubborn to work on themselves, but you find them in all flavors of emotionally unavailable. I have dated AP, FA and DA. I have ended it with every man I have dated, because they don't work on themselves. I'm here digging my hands into mud, pulling at rotting roots to build a garden, and they sit in the mud like that's cool with them. So at some point relationships feel like an old sweater you outgrow. Sad as it is. I haven't met any insecure style who can truly claim to be the better one. Evolution happens when you take a hard look in the mirror and stop blaming your partners for your lack of growth.

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

@@0Demiyah0 People ARE mirror to your own dysfunction. They shine a light to your core wounds. Only if you're willing to look. I still won't date avoidants. They make my anxiety worse, when I didn't start out with hardly any.

[@0Demiyah0]

​​@@rupertperiwinkle4477 yes, I agree with you. It's a great way towards security to use dating as a means to learn more about ourselves, as it illuminates our parts to ourselves. I am not sure whether videos like this actually provide extra tools or encouragement towards that. Little is offered at least, as far I can tell, in truly cultivating means to meet inner child wounds. At least in this particular video, I have not watched them all. As someone with a Disorganized attachment, I too had to deal with my Preoccupied phases and the wounds that come up then. Its not easy, but it's not focusing on Avoidant partner that healed me. Although I did sense that my Avoidant partner was a safe person to heal with next to. He affected my anxiety, but at the same time, he was not a real threat only a perceived one. There was a loving encouragement beneath it to explore how to fill my own cup and be fully myself. I have studied Attachment Theory for nearly 5 years now, and the community has changed. I would *never* tell an Avoidant to start with AT in healing journey now. The communities for CPTSD, inner critic, shame/guilt complex, child of parent with substance abuse, emotional neglect, narcissistic parenting, domestic violence victim or sexual violence victim etc. communities are faaar more empathic and beneficial to healing for an Avoidant person. Where those coping mechanisms are treated respectfully and with loving understanding in other trauma-healing communities, the AT community does more damage than good at this point, sadly. I was already doing my due to heal my trauma before I discovered AT. It's been an enrichment for me, it's a useful framework, but not the holy grail

[@jamesjohnson6309]

Great timing. I just ended things with my avoidant attached ex. It’s been two years of being pushed away. Ghosted several times. Her always pulling away. She always ends up coming back. Saying things like “it was just bad timing” etc. I’m just burnt out. I love her but I just don’t have it in me anymore. I call it avoidant burnout. Where you just don’t have it in you anymore to continue the perpetual cycle of being with someone who fails to self manage. I wish her all the best and I’m very thankful I got to end things on good terms. Instead of fire and fury like all the other times. Your videos this past week helped me make the hard decision to cut ties.

[@hspinnovators5516]

@@jamesjohnson6309 classic deactivation.

[@the_blue_lotus_portal]

Damn this resonates. The piece about failing to self regulate. I've been on the verge so many times to cut ties but I haven't ever wanted to be reactive or rash. Here I am in the midst of another period of abrupt shutdown and no idea why, and I'm more confused than ever. He has been working hard on his issues and has made progress but the magnitude of the issue is daunting, and I'm beyond burned out. I feel worried to tell him I need to step back because I worry about his reaction. I feel trapped. I don't want to lose our connection but it just feels impossible. It worked for me for a long time but it's just not anymore. I thought we could grow together but without communication and commitment from both to prioritize the relationship, who can say? I don't want to share intimate space with anyone who isn't able to regulate themselves because it's a dangerous prospect, plain and simple. Sad but true.

[@traceykemple2768]

Ah, the withholding of information is something that i will never miss. They tell themselves it's the best thing thing for us, but in reality, it's what's easiest for them. Nothing more.

[@VidarTemte]

Yes, exhausting!

[@SherriFlemming]

Lies by omission.. Compartementalizing. .

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

31:50 Yes!!! Avoidants dont know what they want or need, so they just "go with the flow" -- there's never any directional structure with them, so you dont know what's going on. 💯💯💯💯💯

[@Pacifica74]

They have feminine energy.

[@the_blue_lotus_portal]

100% incredibly confusing

[@SEOshogun]

I think severe anxious attachment takes on some of the symptoms of borderline. And severe avoidant attachment looks a lot like narcissistic personality disorder

[@hspinnovators5516]

I thought my Avoidant ex was borderline

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

There is no correlation between anxious and BPD. Maybe youre seeing overlaps in behaviours but they arent the same thing.

[@RainFall2112]

@@rupertperiwinkle4477 This is incorrect.

[@SB-fk8fm]

Avoidant is the attachment. The true diagnosis is borderline personality disorder. Or even split personality. I would know I am these labels. Cured though. Took a lot. But I can assure you mentally we’re there but not there. The abuse was so so bad the neglect was from birth. Meaning we weren’t picked up as babies and that put us in the right hemisphere. Not able to attach to the mirror. Plus the parents were demons. Problem is we don’t remember the abuse. It’s a part of the split. A trauma response. It’s actually what is really going on. And borderlines will forget their primary persons because we never had anything or anyone to connect with. I just forget you. Out of sight out of mind kind of thing. That’s why it’s easy to move on. It’s easy to be picky and a simple booger in the nose used to send me into ick and then detach. Ollie were always detached from everyone and everything. We learned to just be in the moment. There was no plans or goals made because I didnt have time to plan a future when my now was where my full attention was. Staying present to watch for the crazy demon parents. I mean I’ve lived both sides. When I got older drinking partying and one night stands were so much easier than deeper love connections. I could be a deep friend but not even a friend that will be there for you. Emotions are from the ego. We never got to create an ego not the kind you all have. It took an awakening for me to realize all this. Plus I couldn’t remember the abuse. I can now.

[@cherrylane79]

No. Some Fearful Avoidant's can be actually BPD's.

[@Learning7796]

I am secure and just ended a year long relationship w/ a DA. He doesn’t want to break up but Im not being treated great and was certainly not getting my needs met in that relationship. He acts so upset but wont change behavior… I was left no choice. It’s awful.

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

Needs met? They will literally leave you for dead given the chance!Oh, they act upset ( yawn) say that they don't mean it ( yawn) do they change? Hell no! They're not interested in that, just in destroying people's lives.

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

Choose yourself first!!! He’s not at your level of emotional depth. And cant meet even some of your reasonable relationship needs. Have to choose yourself and walk away.

[@Learning7796]

@@rupertperiwinkle4477 Thank you… I believe you are 1000% accurate.

[@hspinnovators5516]

@@Learning7796 many people leave them for this reason. Until one day they can take ownership. Never wait to leave a DA!

[@tramey6]

So validating. The best thing for my healing has been this channel.

[@awerten3746]

Same for me! I don't want to get my DA Ex back! Too much pain!

[@ThanksWyatt]

Same 20 year marriage. Just disappeared right before we were to be on vacation visiting four different countries. No reason. No closure. I went on the vacation by myself. It was hell what she put me through. She’s had mental health issues since high school, but I thought I could help her. 20 years wasted. Avoid avoidants at all cost. They don’t know how to love themselves which prevents them from loving someone else.

[@sameehaalam1596]

Ken this one is for you, I'm 45 minutes in. I hope your channel gets more recognition. How you addressed the complexity of these individuals is mind-blowing. Most of the videos here on KZbin will give only a surface-level explanation and they are almost identical. Only the person going through the heartache will understand things are not that simple. There are so many layers to these individuals. I think they try to hide from themselves too. Two back to back relationships with two of these individuals crushed me. Took eight years from my life. I don't think I have anything more to give. I don't think I have the capacity to heal. I lost myself. I'm an empty shell. Your videos help a lot. Helps me to understand. Thank You.

[@hspinnovators5516]

@@sameehaalam1596 it truely is satanic. We can only grow more in our worth. I bet if you wrote a book millions of other anxious would read it

[@xyaeiounn]

42:49 Commitaphobia? For me, the steps go like this: Courage is required for Vulnerability, which is required for Trust, which is required for Intimacy, which is required for Commitment. People who say they have a problem with commitment have usually been getting their needs met in ways that don't involve intimacy. Protected since adolescence from real intimacy, they can have involved sexual and personal lives without ever getting close. To then say they have problems with commitment is giving themselves too much credit, because intimacy is beyond them. Avoidants and narcissists of all kinds live in a terrible state of desperation that doesn't allow them the spare energy to either work on themselves or give much. They can trade things they don't value, like sex, or things they actually can't stand, like time alone with their thoughts, for your sex and company, things that they can'tt live without. To admit that need would be tantamount to dying. In my limited experience, a tenuous sort of trust is about as far as you get, it's waiting to be broken when the avoidant freaks out and pays you their highest compliment: running away or chasing you off for actually being a good match.

[@The_whimsical_avoidantcope]

wow, this is such a good writeup. Especially that last sentence. Thank you so much for this.

[@andrewadler2982]

Wow that's an interesting way to frame it - paying their highest compliment for being a good match. I'm going to hold on to that instead of constantly trying to escape the feeling of rejection and abandonment. It's insanely counterintuitive but it somehow makes sense in the context.

[@CryptoTaurusMoon]

I agree with the specialized diagnosis for Dismissive avoidant attachment. I have seen a lot in life and went through a 2 1/2 year relationship with a severe attacher. I'm secure and even understanding what was going on, I could not help but become anxious or extremely frustrated with the woman I loved, who expressed her love and attraction yet still sabotaged our relationship. The shutting down and removing herself from the slightest conflict was unbelievably depressing. So sad! Like watching a wreck in slow motion

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

They're ABUSERS!

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

It makes absolutely zero sense to us. You wish you could just shake some logic & compassion into them. So cold, very cold.

[@tinalu4695]

As the fun combination of having dealt with an a avoidant AND being a therapist I feel that there absolutely should be an official diagnosis for all insecure attachments. Mainly because these individuals suffer a lot, not only in the context of relationships but probably all areas of life. They need help as much as the ppl who got into their vicinity. Other existing diagnosises don’t really cover the whole picture. I think it could be helpful for them if they manage to seek therapy to know that what they experience have a name, an underlying dynamic/reasons and that they are not the only ones experiencing this. Much love and sympathy for people both ends….🙏

[@kittykat.88]

Great comment and a thoroughly agree!

[@0Demiyah0]

Isn't Schematherapy, Internal Family Systems or EMDR sufficient in tackling these same issues, but without using the attachment theory application directly?

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

But they dont DO anything to evolve past their comfort zone of being avoidant. They stay stuck

[@0Demiyah0]

@@rupertperiwinkle4477 well, I am the living proof that generalization isn't true.

[@0Demiyah0]

@@rupertperiwinkle4477 well, I am the living proof that generalization is not true...

[@thealphabetist]

It’s now almost 10 months after the breakup for me, and I still have many days where I struggle a lot emotionally.. my self esteem is destroyed, and no matter how much I learn about attachment theory, I still question myself and have moments where I think it’s all my fault, I couldn’t make it work, I wasn’t good enough. And you can’t really explain this to someone who hasn’t been through something like this, that it’s not a normal relationship and not a normal breakup. Anyway, this video is very insightful and to the point, thank you!

[@sammyott5288]

I feel for you friend, I’m also the same

[@tramey6]

It is NOT a normal breakup. It will be the hardest thing you will ever go through. Your self-esteem will take a hit and it will take time to build back but when you heal, truly heal, own your own side of the street you will come out so much better on the other side, a true glow up!

[@desertdog8006]

Thank you. Ive learned this : If dating a DA, they will leave when it suits, eventually, and they rely on you caring and making excuses for them whilst youre being played, albeit subconsciously. Answer is just enjoy it and dont be deluded that the relationship is something special when it actually means little to them apart from the narcissistic supply they're receiving.

[@jossfangirl]

Takes about a week or so after a breakup to detach if you follow that plan. Felt like we both know it would eventually end. Whatever 'it' was. We ended it for the 4th and final time. It was fun while it lasted. And he is very skilled in the way he separated.

[@bluecoffee8414]

What a FANTASTIC format at the start to hear BOTH the woman and the man's account of the relationship! More of this please!

[@mlong506]

My ex moved on pretty quickly. With a woman almost 20 years younger than us. He started hanging out with her before we actually ended things. When I got upset that he was spending time with another woman, he got upset and told me he was feeling controlled and trapped, so I stopped sleeping with him. He told me last night now, they are sleeping together because I pulled away and he "can't be alone." He didn't mean it the way it came out, but my heart just about split in two. That he could move on to sex with someone else in mere weeks after my drawing a boundary. He won't let me go though, desperate to hang onto me as a friend. Just friends. He cannot understand my pain and can't understand why I can't just be simple friends. He still tells me baiscally I'm number 1 over this other girl. Mind f*ck.

[@deb2319]

You Deserve A Real LOVE🎉

[@mmt2310]

Run!!

[@friedgreentomatoes5054]

Run

[@totallychillgirl8072]

He’s delusional if he thinks that you two can be “friends”! What a selfish A hole! Don’t be afraid to walk away from this emotional abuse, you deserve better. Show him.

[@sunbeam9222]

That's not an attachment style issue, he's just being a pig.

[@viktoriagrigoryan1042]

I wonder if there are any patterns with these guys like: - not talking to his parents - having female friends - perusing friendships actively - people pleasing Or any other patters of this sort.

[@pretty_d00med]

Yeah like the patterns they seem to have would help us be on the lookout

[@hspinnovators5516]

They talk about it in attached book. They over cater to parents and family, have no friends, neglect primary partners, cheat etc

[@pretty_d00med]

@@hspinnovators5516 what's the overcatering to parents tho...usually is the parent somewhat codependent on them and this causes a fear of enmeshment and to nullify this psychologically they push the partner away to rectify this in their minds?

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

Yes!! The one I know didn't talk much to their parents, one was estranged. Had too many female friends and was sort of proud of it. Liked attention online from females. Hid their real intentions from me. Too much people pleasing just to keep connections. Their behaviour was sick.

[@gayleneflower398]

@@pretty_d00med many times due to the parent being the only caretaker....either completely neglect the children or emeshment with one.

[@pretty_d00med]

So I'm secure/bordering on FA and I started seeing signs this last guy I was interested in as being avoidant. Enmeshed with his mom, didn't like opening up, didn't like closeness, no phone calls or meet ups, etc. But was consistent with texts. And I broke it off because I knew what I was getting into, been down that road. Nope. You can say it was FA deactivation but I know what I was seeing.

[@firefoxchibi]

Sounds like you were being smart and respecting yourself like a securely attached person would do. Good on you.

[@pretty_d00med]

@@firefoxchibi id like to think so but it's hard and it gets you confused because those people will literally drive you crazy.

[@firefoxchibi]

@@pretty_d00med I feel you. But stay strong and trust in yourself. Write down all the reasons why you made the decision to break it off, and whenever you doubt yourself, read what you've written to remind yourself.

[@LKaempen]

So much useful information here, esp. 57:05 on fearful avoidants. Wish I could send more because this has been so helpful for my mental health. Hopefully more people will find this because I agree with what you're saying about the book 'Attached'

[@sushisam3010]

Ken, Please make a video covering how avoidants deal with or don't know how to deal with mistakes (their own and other people's). No one talks about this, as they tend to be inflexible and incapable of forgiveness, as they feel resentful for not being able to communicate assertively and resolve conflicts.

[@jenn6528]

About 5 years ago, when I was first discovering attachment theory, this was the first book I read. I was dumbfounded that people could be so scared of relationships and/or commitment. Being a 55 year old woman, who has completely given up on dating, I think your estimate of 50% is scarily accurate.

[@redpilljesus]

I'm so grateful you have been making this content. & I'm here getting to experience it as it comes out.

[@heck4984]

Me too. These are great.

[@instagamrr]

I agree - the Attached book is not great once you get past the basics!

[@robinlipert1477]

Absolutely brilliant Ken. Your content is so helpful. Im in the process of trying to not contact my da situationship of 4 years. We didn’t “break up” per se and nothing happened except he is definitely pulling away more and more. My last text a week ago, was my last text. I’m so exhausted. My heart hurts but I’ve finally had enough of being ignored. You can’t make someone love you by giving them more of what they already don’t appreciate. 💔

[@Catherine-rr7fc]

The information you are providing about avoidant attachment is by far the most accurate and relatable I have ever found. As a soon to be psychologist, I value your opinion as it helps making sense of what avoidant attachers and the people who develop some kind of relationships with them experience. Thank you for your very valuable contribution to the awareness and knowledge on this topic. BTW, l’m not a fan of the book Attached as well 😅

[@dawnstonerock4253]

I’m so glad I see this tonight. I’m pretty sure I’ve been played by an avoidant for the past three months. He is very attractive and started the interest and flirting. When I showed real interest he acted weirdly. Now he hardly speaks to me. I’m glad I’ve learned about this attachment style before I got really hurt. I will get better and move on But it’s still sad. 😢

[@xxsorrow4tHEbRoKen]

I lasted 2 months but 6 weeks into I picked up some subtle signs but I would agree we had chemistry and I gave him the time of day because I thought he was a nice guy

[@MarleneForester]

Same here. It’s been five months and the same thing happened. I think there is a 50% chance of the man that are single and midlife that they all have this now it’s really strange. I thought it was narcissism, but it’s not because the man that I was with did the exact same thing to me, babe, wanted to be with me use the kids as a buffer was still talking to his wife was worried about me leaving things at his house. Could only see me when the kids weren’t around. Wanted to come over here all the time. It was weird the minute that I put a label on wanting more he ran. It’s so strange, but he literally said the exact same things about not wanting to be with me but did a slow fade because he actually felt bad and realized what he was doing so sad

[@xxsorrow4tHEbRoKen]

@@MarleneForester Writing back to report that whatever dynamic I had with the avoidant ended 5 months into it, he finally was able to "gain clarity" and broke up with but he went on to talk about the reasons why we aren't compatible yet have chemistry but I think as soon as the "relationship" was getting too series, he got cold feet - got overwhelmed - extremely cold put his guard up and at this point in time we were intertwined in each other lives, conversating more often on the phone and all of sudden it came to a screeching halt; he started withdrawing b/c he couldn't deal with the accountability and vulnerability of being close and connected with someone. I was actually grieving for 6 weeks leading to the conclusion b/c I knew the "relationship" was coming to an end. We didn't end the relationship well since we still spoke on the phone as friends did but I had to block and move on to end the emotional torment

[@laurabeigh283]

I agree that this should be a diagnosis. It’s due to attachment trauma. These people have serious mental problems and cause whoever they are close to great distress. I feel if this were a separate diagnosis, there would be a treatment protocol to help them.

[@Growwithgrace101]

5 weeks prior to breakup my ex started doing and saying things he never had before. He started to let me in. He opened up. He looked at me with a look that he wanted to say something with such love....than after a normal day together he dropped the bomb his feelings had changed after seeing a photo of his ex! 3 years over with no discussion....I was so naive after being with my previous partner for 27 years. I was an open heart full of love and trust for this person who said they loved me so much! Never again...this type of dynamic creates havoc in its wake 😢

[@geese.with.knives]

I'm recently new on this topic & it all feels surreal. I've been dating & recently broke up with a narcissist so I came here to learn about narcissistic individuals, because I thought she was toxic - jokes on me, LoL - I realized that I'm an anxious avoidant - I realize that I've created a mess in my 20 years if dating. My life's basically a mess (in every aspect), I need help!

[@victorkroud3642]

I’m confused. In the honeymoon part of the relationship, there was lots of talk of sex. No sex, but lots of suggestive comments. After three months, that stopped, and fault finding started. When I tried to discuss the relationship there was anger. I let it go on for a year. I know I should break it off, but I feel anxious about that. I’ve never before been anxiously attached. I’m now giving plenty of space. No pressure. But this is the weirdest situation I could imagine.

[@hspinnovators5516]

In Same situation it's a mind fuck

[@vikki07gaur37]

I am in the same situation ,it's nasty and disgusting

[@gayleneflower398]

@@hspinnovators5516 TOTAL MIND FUCK

[@knitnpaint]

Got it. That is what they do. Promise and can not deliver. So painful. He will never deliver. He can’t. Free yourself.

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

Welcome to the world of the avoidant. Trying to make sense of things that don't make sense even to them.

[@instagamrr]

Ooooh this is a great format, I love this! I’m right in the middle of a horrific whiplash back and forth with my dismissive partner (i think? We may have broken up, i can’t tell). I’m watching this to feel like I have some semblance of control over the situation, even though I have none. Anyway, thanks for this format!

[@victorkroud3642]

I’d laugh but it’s not funny. 3 times now I think we’ve broken up but I couldn’t tell. Last time I’m pretty sure we did, but it was quite brief. This is the last effort. I’m giving sooo much space I certainly can’t tell we’re a couple. Maybe they’ll forget who I am.

[@instagamrr]

@@victorkroud3642 Oh my god, I understand completely. We broke up yesterday, I think. At the time I watched this video we had just made things good, and by the end of the night it was over 🤦🏻‍♀ And I still don’t know if it’s over for real or not, bc I don’t want to lose him. Like I see what’s going on, but even using every last drop of my conscious mind and willpower i just cannot control my subconscious on this one!

[@deb2319]

You decide....otherwise it cud be wash,rinse repeat ... u know you are the one who chooses who u sleep with. PEACE🙏

[@wizardofaus2985]

​@victorkroud3642 yup. You are describing my marriage. I've been given a dear John letter and my husbands moved out 3 times within 24 hours of being handed the letter. This is due to my abuse and venom or being overbearing and bombarding. I'm still married on paper but don't know where he lives. When I say the situation is ridiculous he calls me out on whatsap for being overly emotional and irrational. I just wanted a family :(

[@anoncspan4129]

Watched this video a second time through as decade+ husband with DA wife that pulled away slowly, then did the whole "this wasn't really a true connection" thing recently AFTER two kids, of course... Anyway. Several months of therapy on my side later, I watch this again, and, my god, it's not the puzzle piece, it's the whole puzzle you just layed out for me. I'm sure this would be dead if she didn't care about the kids and we weren't both putting them first in every way, less modeling deep emotional connection in front of them, but, I think we need to try the hard ultimatum for her to get real past trauma help. Now figuring out if I'm newly anxious due to her over time or if I always was, either way, working on that too. Thank you, Ken.

[@BirdieHaze2207]

You’re amazing! You know them better than anyone else I’ve ever listen to. You are soooo spot on!! Now to try and get over the heartache.he was sooooooo affectionate, loving, kind and compassionate. But none of that real raw nitty gritty. Passive.. thought we had had some good quality time and bang!! Gone!! I negotiated my way back in the last few times cause I love him. This time not a word in 4 months. I think he’s so relieved. God it hurts to be something they feel free of. An obligation. 💔

[@queenprotein]

I decided to divorce. I love all your videos. Really helps me piece the puzzle of the past together so i can clearly see how to avoid the future avoidants. ❤

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

What on earth did their parents do to them whilst young for them to turn out this way? They seem so defective!

[@rajisinghsoni2321]

Mine grew up in a house with an abusive alcoholic father, a mother who neglected the children by staying with their father as an effect of the abuse. The destruction was severe. He had to take care of his little brother and was the one to break up the marriage by threatening to leave his mother forever if she didn't leave his father. It worked, but the result was enmeshment with his mother, as he now had to take care of her. From all this damage, he went into highly dysfunctional manipulative relationships with narcissists, reflecting his childhood, that only confirmed what he believes about himself: that he is unlovable. Yet we fell deeply in love. His family adored me, especially his mother and grandmother, because they could see how deep the love was becoming, how I truly offered a healthy relationship, and they even tried to keep us together when he deactivated as our relationship became more and more intimate. He threw me away one rainy morning after a very mild argument. He had been fading before that morning, because his hyper-independence came online as a trauma response to the inter-dependence he began to experience. It destroyed me. I lost him and his family. I cried every day for four months. Went to therapy, etc. He tried to return, couldn't bare to lose me completely because he loves me so much, no one will love him like I do etc, made promises to find a middle ground, go slowly to work on things knowing our triggers and our boundaries better, ease into a path of reconciliation. But he deactivated again. My second heartbreak was milder because I had steeled my heart, but it was the final straw. I cut him out of my life completely. My last words were that I love him but we must go our separate ways. I still love him. Always will. It's like a chunk of my heart is permanently missing, but the organ is still functioning. Our bond will haunt me forever, and that will be part of how I move on.

[@MusParvulus]

Avoidants are usually raised in emotional neglect. Some don't even realize it was neglect and not normal.

[@ThanksWyatt]

Avoided and ignored their child’s emotional needs.

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

@@ThanksWyatt Bingo

[@annewoodcock-rr8zv]

Having had parents, particularly my mother, who have never been present for me emotionally and are incapable of giving emotional support, I have been left very anxious, but also very empathic. In relationships I am anxiously attached. It does therefore annoy me to hear the awful avoidant behaviour that I and others have experienced in a relationship, being explained away continously by other coaches as 'childhood emotional neglect'. It didn't make me an avoidant.

[@a-pq4xj]

A decade with a DA. She rewrote the history of the relationship and blamed me for making her feel trapped and unhappy. It was extremely traumatizing for me. She was stone cold and acted like a robot. It is simply crazy.

[@ThanksWyatt]

Same 20 years two kids. Just disappeared with no reason. We didn’t fight ever. She kept all her feelings to herself and wouldn’t communicate.

[@Healing_Oaks]

Same. 11 years and two kids. He made it sound like I stole his happiness and blamed everything on me from the past 11 years. Things he never spoke up about !!!!!

[@susanparkes5096]

Dating is not cathartic, it's a nightmare. There are so FEW amazing people out there, that finding one that's actually compatible with you is nigh on impossible.

[@SherriFlemming]

Indeed

[@chirokathleen]

I was in a 4 year relationship with an avoidant that was excruciatingly painful. A year later and I’m still reeling from the experience.

[@bluecoffee8414]

Same. 4 years. Ended last month very abruptly (even though she'd been slow-fading a few months prior). Still reading but damn I'm learning a LOT in this pain. Question. What attachment style would you say YOU have? I'm definitely on the avoidant spectrum too.

[@hspinnovators5516]

@@chirokathleen it's honestly the most traumatic and painful thing a person could go through because they bond you manipulatively and then the discard without a chance to fix it because their brains aren't able to bond. It truely is satanic. Then they try to give you dopamine thinking it is a favor but comes across as entitlement or demanding sex etc cause that's all they know and they appear like Satan incarnate with no empathy. It's horrible, I wouldn't wish it on Hitler honestly.

[@tramey6]

I've been through breakups but with an avoidant. Hold on, you are about to go through a roller coaster that you didn't consent to be on and it will change your life and if you let it and own up to your own side of the road and heal those wounds, you will come out better than ever!

[@sarahbaedays]

Her saying that she doesn’t think he dates a lot when he’s had three (failed) marriages… sometimes we choose to be so blind. Just ended a year + long relationship with a fearful avoidant. If you’re going through this right now, trust me, you will feel lighter without the weight of their discontent. Misery seems to be the only thing people like this are comfortable committing to. Trust your gut

[@barbara6840]

Heart you. Only person speaking real sense on KZbin about people performing bad behavior.

[@amandam2238]

Really enjoy your posts. So educational and informative. Really soothing my broken heart at the moment too, so thank you!

[@cristakenzaheidiwijaya]

very nicely said, attachment styles shouldn't just be called a style or how you attach to people, they actually affect more of us than we realize, how we make decisions, self regulate and literally almost all aspects of our life, how we get close to people, deal with certain unfortunate events. it's really frustrating how attachment styles isn't as widely known as star signs, or other common identifications. people should ask about attachment styles like they would ask other's names and phone numbers lol. how to spread awareness?! the damages and effects if it keeps going unknown and unacknowledged are not small or something they can simply just move on & forget.

[@LKaempen]

On 1st or 2nd date a Dismissive Avoidant will say they are not looking for a relationship and a Fearful Avoidant will say "As soon as I'm a burden to you I'll leave."

[@sidewaysonhighways]

Great livestream vid! I feel like there is a great deal of cognitive dissonance for this epidemic, and unless there is some prolific phenomenon where avoidants on this spectrum start seeking professional help, very little will change. If this group of avoidants aren’t classified in the DSM-5, then I would say they are a grey area. It’s like they have a type of emotional dyslexia where they start something, then undo it, only to start all over again. However dyslexia causes much more involuntary behavior than avoidance. Avoidants aren’t doing it to be malicious in the same way cluster B personalities do. Though it is done with a level of recklessness for the ones it is done to. Movies such as “Runaway Bride” and mainly “He’s Just Not That Into You”, portray avoidancy as the natural wiring of the human brain for others to navigate, to which other characters call out as bullshit. Really something has to give on the avoidant’s side to make things work. The latter example did a lesser job of portraying the anxiety and fearfulness experienced by the avoidants and played it more like a battle of the sexes. I am sorry that people out there have been discarded by this sort of behavior from people whom don’t have their stuff together. For me, it just took burnout to stop ruminating about why things turned like they did and what it all meant. Granted, I was still left with a lot of unanswered questions until I came upon Ken’s videos. The thoughts are still there, but nowhere as intense as they were when I was discarded by the same person.. the last two times it happened. I’m just shut down right now, recharging to filter out the pessimistic thoughts in my head about the dating scene or people in general. I had to stop looking at the guy’s videos and listening to songs that reminded me of him as well as refrain from making a certain food that I was eating at the time it first happened, which broke me. I stopped having such intense dreams about the discard and stopped replaying his hurtful words in my memory. They just got played out to the point I became desensitized to them. Many will agree that it’s a learning experience. I think it’s a long term crying yourself to sleep experience over the course of weeks, months and years, until I had gotten most of it out of me, that I could rest and regroup. I’m not saying I’m 100%. I’m just saying that my resolve had to come naturally so I could become indifferent to the anticipation for a reply to texts that I may send to a love interest down the road. I no longer have the energy to throw myself at people. Being a basket case is no fun and terrifying at it’s worst. I’m not so emotional anymore and more grounded. It just feels better and is.

[@kittykat.88]

Wow!!!!!! Great comment ❤❤❤❤

[@rhodabean]

Emotional dyslexia is so accurate

[@soniaalatamura]

Your page has honestly saved my sanity

[@SherriFlemming]

Indeed. Ken is a voice of sanity and wisdom.

[@Growwithgrace101]

So true! They are good at making one descion and that is blindsiding their partner and getting out!

[@paynehollis]

Completely agree about “Attached”. It was a groundbreaking body of work, but the original study and overarching theory is based on a number of very narrow assumptions (only evaluating causality based on maternal bond is one major example). The field of attachment theory needs to be modernized and pushed forward with more nuanced observations based on “primary care giver” rather than gender or even gendered roles. Attachment is certainly a strong element on human behavior, but given the evidence for neural plasticity and reprogramming, AT is clearly inadequate as a holy grail of causality in its current form. Modalities that regard attachment as a piece of a larger whole (like IFS) are doing a great deal of good in trauma therapy. Good to remember attachment is only part of a human story. Thank you for your insights!!!

[@salomekankia5720]

Can I just say hooow much I love you and lucky I was finding out about your channel❤ You literally change my life and from not going insane because of my ex who dumped after 1 discussion 4 months ago, saying exactly the same words “we are not compatible, we see the world differently”. Eternally thankful to you Ken!

[@DominionMovementDotOrg]

i initially thought you were saying Spock was used as an excuse for someone’s break up (Doctor Spock or Star Trek Spock). wondering if that ever happened…. 1:05:25

[@misschanandelerbong7946]

Around 26 minutes, almost spot on- I literally have nightmares about being married. It's terrifying. Everything you said about being trapped, giving up space and independence EXCEPT my fear is not that it's boring. I'm afraid of being abused and trapped with that person. Given how often abuse happens, I'm not sure how to convince myself that it's worth the risk.

[@xyaeiounn]

"Given how often that abuse happens"? You've heard every story of abuse from people with their 'poor me' stories and ignored the world of people just quietly getting along. Don't let the internet turn you into a chicken. You can't avoid every last speck of crap life might throw at you, knowing that is how you convince yourself it's worth it.

[@sunbeam9222]

I understand you totally. 💞

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

You see, I wouldn't have an issue if they just couldn't love or be nice at all. Instead, what I am seeing is an avoidant who is nice to other people, has no issues there, they flirt with people, etc. There is no backing away or being avoidant, then! No, no, no, instead they play stupid games with people they think are kind and compassionate, like with ME! That's right, they're selective with their avoidance, it seems, which indicates to me that's it's BS and I'm not buying it!

[@redpilljesus]

They don't feel threatened by the others who aren't that close to them yet.

[@LivingBeyondBeauty]

@redpilljesus Nonsense! They communicate with them all the time & flirt with them! Have you heard yourself? Seriously, these fools are loving this! Guys, you know, we really crave 'connection & love'! We can't help it! BS, yes, they can! They might have been defenceless as children, unsure or whatever, but guess what, they are adults now! In the real world! Let's call it what it is: ABUSE! It's freaking emotional abuse, same as narcs just by a different name. It's BS, and I'm not buying it!

[@firefoxchibi]

I feel you. When we were out together mine avoidant would be warm and sociable with everyone except me, and leave me hypothetically standing in the corner alone. He would also prioritise everything else above me. But like the other response to your comment said, this is because they don't feel threatened by people who aren't close to them. It's when you get close to their heart that their defences get activated...so take it as a sick sort of compliment I guess 🥴

[@dawnstonerock4253]

I feel exactly like that today. He won’t speak to me yet flirts and smiles with other girls around. I’m the one whose been nice to him and he hates me. Won’t even look at me

[@CorvusCoroneCanisLupusSawel]

@@LivingBeyondBeauty no need to be so rude. you're opinion is your opinion but @redpilljesus is correct in his comment. yes, it is abuse 100% but they don't see it that way. they are just disordered people, it will never make sense to those who are not disordered in the same way. i agree that they are like narcs, or even borderlines as a lot of their traits are similar. they're just fucked up people. once they get close they sabotage. the reason they seem friendly and flirt with others is because they need and crave that attention. some are aware, some are not.

[@StellarWreckage]

Avoidant Personality Disorder does exist, but it’s regarding everything (7 areas of life) not just relationships. The problem with DA’s is that AP abuse looks benign and socially acceptable but DA’s take it and stay quiet until they’re destroyed all around and feel they can’t keep anyone around them safe. They ghost because it’s the quietest and lowest-conflict situation and they want to stop hurting people (including themselves).

[@neveragain733]

Ty for acknowledging the amount of damage these types do to their partners.

[@derrick.crawford1005]

Still broken up over it, nearly 8 months

[@ShowMeTheGritPodcast]

That was so helpful. Thank you.

[@ayeshab7696]

please do a vid on how to identify avoidants to stop wasting time with them? my ex turned out to be one and I cant afford to waste 3-4 years with such men

[@ingeweisenborn8729]

Yes please I second that

[@Cybertron123456]

Ken, you mentioned the book ‘ Why men can’t love ‘ - I searched it and wondered who the Author was because the title seems to be something slightly different. Thanks

[@no_more_free_nicks]

Hi, I'm also trying to find it, and curious about the author.

[@phoebesun8907]

Man who can't love by Steven Carter

[@0Demiyah0]

Men Who Can't Love - Steven Carter Personally, I have a lot of issues with this book, first published in 1987. It was written during a time where C-PTSD was very ill-understood, and therefore the authors themselves show this lack of connecting childhood neglect and abuse with the perplexing behavior of avoidants. I read the book a few years ago, and while there is some value in it, it is too outdated to be a bible about avoidants..

[@SherriFlemming]

She's Scared He's Scared by Stephen A Carter.

[@Growwithgrace101]

I have a very funny suspicion that my ex was hiding a lot and so much rings true. Our breakup made no sense and my gut was he got caught. I will never know. I will think back that I had a lucky escape despite our lovely 3 years together he never committed and avoided all integration and personalisation.

[@tramey6]

This is what they do. Your gut knows. It can be absolutely lovely to be in relationship with them but it's on their terms and there's no real commitment or integration, it's all surface. They are able to mask it when they can remain on their own terms and don't have to commit or integrate, as soon as they have to, they'll be triggered within months.

[@Growwithgrace101]

@@tramey6 triggered in days! Literally

[@LiaVargas-p8r]

I’ve been the toxic person in a relationship, basically I was in a good place to begin with and slowly I became more like them. After hearing them putting everyone down one person after the other after the other… it made me mad. I was one of the people he kept putting down so I just started standing up for myself and calmly told him one day I didn’t want to be in a relationship with him anymore which made him angry and with time it only made me more and more mad that the freaking guy wouldn’t let me go. Eventually he did the whole smear campaign so I see more clearly. I’m not someone bad, but the wrong people will bring out the worst in us! So we need to protect ourselves from these things.

[@rupertperiwinkle4477]

1:05:21 LOL!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sounds exactly like them!

[@acfiTraining]

Wow are all avoident attachers emotionally immature?

[@laurabeigh283]

Yes! Exactly! It’s a trauma response. Attachment most greatly happens between birth and age 2. Many of these people had an attachment trauma at that stage and their development stopped there. Many of them are essentially toddlers.

[@sunbeam9222]

Oh definitely. Arrested development when it comes to a specific attachment stage. No more nor less than another insecure attachment style tho, but of course the unhealed anxious type who loves to hate who they're attracted to will tell you otherwise 😂

[@MD-gk2un]

4 years of trying to get closer and it ended out of the blue for no reason he blocked me

[@rosetaylor3717]

I will say, a lot of attachment experts give more grace about avoidants and cluster Bs. But most cluster B therapists (like Daniel fox), do say there is a correlation. They say narcissism and bpd are a spectrum. I am fearful avoidant and I have BPD.

[@alishamarie833]

How do we tell if our partner is an avoidant or if they are just simply falling out of love? If someone is falling out of love, wouldn't that also make that person act avoidant towards their partner? How do we tell what we are actually dealing with?

[@tramey6]

A healthy partner will begin to talk to you about what's not working for them in a relationship. You will know that things are challenging for them because they are communicating with you. An unhealthy person will simply begin to pull away and never say anything and when you try to initiate conversation about the relationship will placate you by telling you that they love you and nothing is wrong. That's the difference. A break up with a healthy partner will not feel like you are blind sided.

[@vilmavaitieke7934]

Ken, you are the best, thank you so much!

[@derrick.crawford1005]

The part about what if I looked better etc…. Logically what you say makes sense however it’s hard not to think that.

[@LD71685]

How do we submit questions beforehand?

[@tinac6114]

I've been trying for 2 yrs with what I've heard you call a "boomerang" avoidant. But this last time since he has come back he's asked me to please not give up on him. Does this mean he's actually starting to acknowledge that he needs to work on himself? That he knows there's something going on with him & he wants to work on it? I have in some mean texts when he's run tell him I know he's avoidant & I'm anxious & that our relationship is going to he hard. Thank you for your video! ❤️

[@AstarteRap]

He's playing Gamez, block him

[@firefoxchibi]

You need to actually ask him what he's doing to work on his avoidancy issues. You are giving your time, love and attention to this person, you are allowed to question what he's doing to show up better in the relationship. If he is vague or doesn't give you a proper answer or gets defensive, leave, before you waste more years of your life on someone who is probably incapable of loving you (or anyone, for that matter).

[@rajisinghsoni2321]

Mine did this. Explained that the reason he destroyed everything was because of the old trauma that he wants to manage better by finding a balanced negotiated path with me, that is, practicing secure connection by sticking to agreements about boundaries and needs. But then, soon after the attempt at implementation, he referred to that same trauma as a reason to undercut all the negotiation we had done. The proverbial all words, no action. I had strengthened my heart by that point, after 8 soul-destroyed months of NC crying every day for three of those months, and severely adjusted my expectations. So when the second deactivation started as we got closer to enacting "agreements", my heartbreak was lower on the richer scale. But I immediately cut him off, in a message that was truly loving, wishing him well in his life, telling him the truth that I will always love him from a distance. He tried to breadcrumb twice. First time I left him on seen. Second time on unread. Then I decided to cut the cord entirely by unfollowing us from our private accounts. It was emotional, but necessary, because my own nervous system has been informing me that he's not going to change though he says he will. He needs serious therapy, but I doubt he will ever get it. It breaks my heart to lose someone I still love and will always love, but I have to love myself first.

[@firefoxchibi]

@@rajisinghsoni2321 you should be super proud of making such a difficult but wise and self loving decision 🩷

[@milarepa1234567]

Couples therapy or it's over.

[@jdprettynails]

This was fantastic! So much great advice and so reassuring that I feel like I really wasn’t the problem after all.

[@montserratpuebla4629]

100% I bet my father has BPD (borderline personality) and my ex-husband has some similarities but definitely is a Fearful avoidant. With BPD the fear of abandonment and splitting are really essential. But my ex-husband is clearly an issue of fear of rejection and fear of losing his independence. Min. 1:20:50 that's been also my case. My ex-husband thought I was the problem and he discarded me. Turns out I am not the problem...

[@kristincronin-g7n]

Adam Lane Smith is an attachment specialist and talks about how to deal with an anxious attachment person versus an avoidant attachment person, and it all makes a lot of sense. He explains the brain chemistry of it all and where it comes from.

[@melle-32b]

Ken, I really appreciate your channel. I can easily agree with your 50% estimate being A. Question: In your experience, how many of your (marriage phobic) avoidant clients or A partners of clients come from single parent housholds? Or this doesnt play a role in your observation? Thank you.

[@sterneprinzessin]

Could you please do a video on the book attached and where it fails 🙏

[@cafesparrow28]

I was with an avoidant, who knew she was, was in therapy, and we still couldn't make it work. A year before she broke up with me she started to pull away because she said "the spark disappeared". She stayed another year because she really cared about me and wanted it to work but she started to pull away from sex, and ultimately the relationship and broke up with me. (It was a 3 year relationship) We were NC for a bit but she said she missed me too much, and we're trying to be "friends". It's crazy because she is more present and "lovey" now than the last year of our relationship. She acknowledges we have a "connection" and that she loves me, but thinks I deserve better because when we were together she couldn't be romantic. Not sure if it was just a normal "I fell out of love with you", or if it's the stereotypical Avoidant losing interest and not being able to get it back because the relationship was too "healthy". Im open to being friends and not putting all my eggs in one basket, but part of me still has hope since there were definite moments of love.

[@JamesBrett2008]

when you are with an avoidant you become high risk so the walls go up, when you arent you are low risk so the wall is down. My fearful avoidant ex couldnt be more positive about all her male orbiters and ex's who remain but i felt like i was under low key suspicion 24/7. I ended it after 2 years, exhausted. Never again and she wont have me as yet another low risk ex in the background where she can enjoy the intimacy without the risk. nope.

[@dannywholuv]

My DA ex didnt want to mention me to the father of her kids citing it would make no difference. (How about outta respect for me?!) She claimed he was still interested in her but the feeling wasn't mutual. God knows what was really happening. There was nights she would be out and not mention any names. Was weird.

[@bluecoffee8414]

You describe ME so well it's uncanny. Thank you.

[@r.bishop1127]

Can you do any videos on a long term relationship with a DA/marriage?

[@smittyditty100]

The hair comment ☠️☠️☠️☠️my ex met me as blonde(dyed) really wanted a blonde. Anytime i did my hair Id ask what color and hed say any color. Yet on his phone he only ever kept the pic of me with blonde hair when we first met. I only realized this dislike after divorce.

[@user-jm3rm9rn3y]

This was sooo extremely helpful, thank you very much!

[@mattwood8659]

After reading the avoidant letter are you sure that's not just narcassisim?

[@chasespinney6609]

Wow. I lean avoidant and I've never once considered cheating. Thats a grand statement.

[@namepending155]

I am having a hard time finding guidance on known personality traits where they are not at the level of being a disorder and where those terms also arise in “attachment types”.

[@lb1413]

What book was he talking about?

[@flower_7890]

I've just finished reading the book "men who can't love ", took me 3 days😅 great book, plenty of examples and tips what to do/ how to deal with avoidants.

[@vampy7966]

My ex avoidant has a collection of my earrings…. I asked for them after the last time I saw him when he told me he didn’t know why he discarded me & he said he would organise to give them back & still hasn’t lol 😝

[@laurabeigh283]

My ex has hung on to my stuff as well. I think that serves their need for attachment. It’s easier for them to attach to things rather than people.

[@tramey6]

They 100% keep things like this. Mine and I would meet up for dinner every once in a while (when I was trying to figure things out) and he would always wear a shirt from a trip we took together. Every.Single.Time.

[@KB-ih5gf]

Wow. Just wow. I lived this. Only the kids were adults, but you’d never really know it. 🤦‍♀️

[@deniseprovost4319]

Who is the author of that book?

[@deniseprovost4319]

Men Who Can't Love: When a Man's Fear Makes Him Run from Commitment (and What a Smart Woman Can Do about It by Julia Sokol and Steven Carter

[@user-ml8dm9fz6l]

Warning: for Vertigo sufferers: lots of hand movement. Suggest: scrolling to comments so you can hear video and avoid getting triggered

[@GodHelpMe369]

grief cripples me debilitates me paralyzes me I want to die grief rapes me my soul is tortured I am breathless in my pain I am bereaved in despair hopeless helpless anguished and tormented and begging and waiting just to die all I do is suffer I'm in hell with no escape

[@heck4984]

Thank you

[@cosmosadorabilis7677]

I'm avoidant, and I avoid relationships. I don't understand why anyone would be in a relationship, if they can't be 💯 in it.

[@lisaariottiart]

You know soooo much!!

[@AABTBS]

Avoidants - How do you feel when someone you dated and then you as avoidant decided to end it due to too much emotional intimacy, tells you that they understand and that if in the future you would like to continue to get to know one another, they are there for you with an open heart?? How does this sentiment feels to you avoidants? Does it scare you further away or something else? ❤❤❤

[@the_blue_lotus_portal]

I've been the person who has said that to more than one avoidant man, and they almost always come back. One of them took 3 years, but usually it's on the order of months. I had my reasons for the ones I allowed back (I saw them as soulmates that touched me on a deep level and helped me heal buried parts of myself), and I don't regret it. Though I might be ready to leave the pattern behind now, I think I've outgrown it.

[@Loversinadangeroustime]

Omfg… the avoidants letter!😳

[@georgie9919]

Thank you so much, this has helped me heal mega…keep the great work up sharing this info,greatful ✅

[@sharchannel1836]

The DA should stick with the ex and not bring someone else into this drama to cheat on them with the ex and the DA didnt need to sleep with the GF knowing they were leading them on DA's are almost as bad as narcissists they are awful!

[@ChadEAult]

It seems they are in arrested development? I wonder if you can comment on that!

[@msarilyn7677]

And yet avoidant attaching is not something that comes from thinking, it is a pain response.

[@jossfangirl]

Wow.. I could have written that letter from Terri. Lmao

[@MissJessieQ]

He says such cryptic things sometimes... When I asked him if he sees a future for us he said he doesn't not see a future, lol! I said I was so sad he was breaking up with me because there were so many things I was looking forward to doing, (implying together) he said to me "but you will do all these things". Later I asked him why he would say that, apparently he wasn't trying to push me away, but expressing that he intended to do all those things with me still (but wanted to surprise me with all) It just drives me mad that he can say something like this, with that intention, at the BREAK UP!!! WTAF 😵‍💫