The Walking Dead Game: Amid the Ruins Theory

[@Kwjl]

Season 2 has to be the most mysterious season in terms of cut content

[@Isaiah20035]

I know season 2 is just weird than season 1 season 3 and season 4

[@celadon0451]

Most interesting too, imo. I love hearing and reading about everything about the cut content around this game.

[@16craigory2]

Rappers themes 656 og season 2 was so dark

[@Isaiah20035]

@@16craigory2 facts more dark than season 1 season 3 and season 4 the final season

[@rx570reddragon8]

Yeah, before ep4 released I Just was sitting and looking these episode posters and I was realising that this is mystery and dark game that we're think, well this game don't have super dark atmosphere as for example this war is mine even this piece of sh*t darker than twd s2, but it would BE super cool if one of the season would BE dark, for example this happened with witcher 1, witcher 1 was dark, but not enough i think cuz' of funny physic and fable style, but when you play witcher 2 you Will notiece especcialy when you start tutorial

[@scarrplayz7099]

When Clem sees Wyatt at carvers camp, he doesn’t know he’s talking to the person who will eventually kill Eddie

[@stuff4you207]

Wow I actually never thought of that

[@Playbutton-yq7of]

Oh yeah, the ranch flash back from season 4

[@ytyummycookiescarrplaystai6055]

I still feel like it would make more sense to have him in season 2, he just gets gunned down by Clem in season 4, so much potential

[@art92]

@@ytyummycookiescarrplaystai6055 that guys was useless, what potential?!? I wouldve preferred more Luke or Christa not some random

[@ninetailedsamurai3536]

@@ytyummycookiescarrplaystai6055 yeah true i actually was pissed off when they anounced it was eddie and sighed i said really your gonna have eddie say one line and get killed by clem okay great but what about the rest of the 400 days survivors

[@RedLemonCola]

OMID THE RUINS

[@melanix8]

RedLemonCola Hi, dude. I am Omid.

[@Marowak31]

He was too pure for the world

[@NiallJ]

Super early cut content was Omid's resurrection in this episode

[@dawn1558]

Im Omid

[@WickedPhase]

Im Omid

[@raidenvakarian9362]

After a recent replay of the season, I think I spotted one more (admittedly very loose) piece of evidence: when Jane shows up to kill the last bandit, she seems to be incredibly shocked and rather out of it until Clementine talks her down. She gives her reasoning as her feeling bad about killing someone who hadn't done anything bad to her, but that felt like a rather flimsy excuse to me. Jane had no qualms about shooting Troy in the dick and letting him get eaten alive by walkers, but she's suddenly squeamish about saving Clementine's life by killing an armed guy actively firing at the group? Something just doesn't really add up here. Presuming that your theory IS true and that the Russians were originally meant to be the 400 Days group, I think in that moment Jane would've had to kill Becca, Shel's little sister. Given Jane's backstory with her own sister, I think her shellshocked reaction after having done it would make a LOT more sense if she had to kill a young girl rather than a grown man.

[@TheForsakenSentry]

Good insight. I rate it.

[@tugassekolah6916]

imo she's not kill Becca but she killed RUSSELL because the guy who got killed by Jane has the almost similar hoodie and posture like Russell

[@ElectrikStatik900]

Well, you could argue that Troy deserved what happened to him. He was basically Carver's lapdog, and Carver wasn't a good guy at all. Jane says she never killed someone before that *didn't deserve it.* She was fine with shooting Troy and leaving him to die because Troy deserved it, in my opinion.

[@twdgstan_at_Your_service]

Bro wrote a hole paragraph -

[@dext871]

@@twdgstan_at_Your_serviceit’s *whole go back to school

[@jamesaL2]

Eddie replacing Arvo is such a better alternative for the story. Why telltale randomly forced some Russians into the story I will never know, it's always felt out of place. Unfortunately I think this was another consequence for having so many writers. Season 2 episode 4 for me personally is where the momentum died for Clementine's story, this episode is the moment things were just played safe and almost felt random. Season 1 was ambitious, but it was never random from a storytelling perspective. The lost potential is sad. The ending decision for season 2 was clearly building up to be Kenny vs Luke, but during episode 4 is clearly shifted to be Jane vs Kenny. Conflicting ideas, rushed development and poor decisions. We should have actually seen the writing on the wall for telltale when this episode released. I would like some form of expanding on these characters from season 2, a comic wouldn't be a bad idea.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

I don't think season 2 was that bad though, although I agree with your views. I think getting Kenny back was a good move but he should have been introduced earlier. I feel like Carver was wasted potential and could have been made into an EVEN better villain /hero (if you were part of the minority who sided with him). The main thing I like about season 2 is the sense that everything for Clementine was a big survival challenge.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

They marketed the hell out of Kenny vs Luke on their social media and they did nothing with it. You can tell that the writers just didn't talk to one another between episodes, seeing as they moved locations entirely and switched two characters in the middle of a gunfight. I'd be a little more leniant if the writers spoke about it, but practically nobody who did has ever spoken about their work on the game openly.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

I suppose the story was more oriented on survival, like actually surviving and what would happen if you met random people along the way.

[@jamesaL2]

@@TheManInBlueFlames I do think season 2 was good overall. The first 3 episodes were excellent. The multiple endings, Kenny's return and the very dark storytelling make it a great walking dead experience. But there was some serious lost potential, just from the first 3 episodes it wouldn't have been too difficult to beat season 1 in terms of quality. But unfortunately there was a disconnect in season 2 episode 4 that the rest of the series suffered from.

[@ajanthony1356]

this episode was terrible. Nick, Luke and Sarah were suppose to be season characters but instead were all given shitty forced deaths

[@tanxenx36]

Not gonna lie, before Amid the Ruins came out and everyone was still theorising what would happen. I always thought the 400 days characters who didn't go with Tavia would've appeared alongside Eddie, whom I believed at the time was going to appear due to his prominent appearance in the slide. When Telltale released the promotional image revealing one of the Russians aiming their pistol at the group, I was confident that it just had to be a member of Eddie's group. In the end, I was extremely disappointed that neither Eddie OR any of the 400 days characters appeared in the episode. It seemed like some really wasted potential.

[@insomniac_obsession5617]

LonelyWolf I think Eddie appears in the final episode but it’s only short

[@ResidentEvilPolska]

+1

[@xAustishx]

I hear ya there, I was assuming the exact same situation would happen. I was super excited to see it too, but then it never came. Wasted potential indeed!

[@kingofgrim4761]

Yeah, it woulda been better if anything that when u waited for Rebecca to recover, instead she’d just get shot during thr gunfight or something. Maybe make it so she tries to save the baby in the snow by jumping on top of it and gets killed as a result? Or at least make her live longer idk

[@jaytonius560]

So much wasted potential with all those characters. WHY, TELLTALE, WHY?!

[@jaytonius560]

Ethan Johnson I guess they are. Their terrible management cost them their money and their employees.

[@ajxx9987]

@@jaytonius560 it actually costed them the company 🤣, they're shit

[@DarkHare]

In the walking dead definitive edition the design of arvo looks way more like a junkie, his clothes are more tattered and he doesnt have an injured leg.

[@amirkhazan3754]

Because they try to make the story exciting but it doesn’t work if you kill all your best characters

[@baileynelson9048]

After season 2 the entire series went downhill.

[@LordofFullmetal]

I can see Clem wanting to go home to Atlanta. She's eleven in season 2 - I think people forget that, because she acts more adult than all of the actual adults, but she is a child. And that house was the last place she ever felt safe.

[@BlueSpindash1]

its insane how much more sense that storyline would have made. Not only does it give the 400 days cast more purpose for existing, but it raises the stakes so much more for the ending of 204 as it involves characters we already know.

[@SpecsReilly]

As someone who reached new levels of dissapointment with the way Telltale handled the 400 Days characters, I must admit, I really appreciate you giving them the purpose they should have had in the final game. Sure, it might not have ended with Clem's group and 400 Days group becoming allies, but I appreciate you giving them a reason to be there other than for a small Cameo in the game. Overall, although there's sadly not a whole lot of proof that this might have been Telltale's original plan for Amid The Ruins, I can safely say I would have preferred this version over the one we actually got.

[@Isaiah20035]

Agreed

[@egoknot7760]

If Edie actually was in the game, and took Arvo’s role and shot Clem, then if none of the story changed for season 3 & 4 and they played out like they did, then in S4 episode 4 during the flashback we would actually be able to get revenge and kill him. What a missed opportunity

[@0subsWith0vidsChallenge]

Wouldnt make sense since he would never harm a kid, especially since in s4 he dies protecting the kids since he thinks clem is a bandit stealing kids

[@BairTheBeagle2047]

@@0subsWith0vidsChallenge maybe he’s doing that to try and atone? Then again he would probably recognize Clem if that were the case.

[@MariusBoss11458]

@@BairTheBeagle2047 Agreed.

[@kevinyo1169]

I recently read on the Walking Dead wiki that Eddie was supposed to appear in S2 as a member of a cult. Maybe they were supposed to go up against Clem’s group. Again, this season has a LOT of scrapped ideas that we may never see.

[@key1131]

Just imagine a Remake for this game... Everything the same except now you see how: -. Clementine learns the basic of surviving (fish traps and fishing, thanks to Pete and Alvin) -. Learns about the importance of a group (Thanks to Luke) -. Learn how a person can go mad if he suffers enough (Kenny in the version he was the antagonist) -. Have to survive an ambush and see how other survivors can die in matter of seconds bc of one awful decision/mistake. -. Have to choose between: An old friend or a new mentor (Kenny vs Luke) TBH S2 had the potential to be even better than S1, but Telltale took the safest path. I loved your theory bc it seems more plausible and I would have liked to see Eddie on S2 rather just to see him in S4 only to die in 2 seconds.

[@Honestlynothingelse]

I may not say a remake but a new game of it but except as the alternate one. The cut content.

[@vismattress5760]

@@Honestlynothingelse thats a remake lol

[@fluffyboi4411]

@@Honestlynothingelse Or as free/paid DLC

[@FadMick]

I know christa died but I heard some stuff where they shuffled around plans for her, what if you'd have to choose between christa and kenny?

[@gahler8552]

Yeah and maybe even game similar to detroit become human? Let's say if Clem teached Sarah how to fight then Sarah might actually use gun to shoot walkers and even Jane would able to save her in episode 4.

[@vismattress5760]

i always thought the amid the ruins card was so creepy

[@joel.jpgvid]

Yes! Even though the gaming series ended, I still LIVE for these discussions and theories. I’ve always wondered about Season 2, there’s a lot of mystery surrounding the development around that time. Keep up the good work!

[@ryanelliott71698]

Episode 4 I felt was the worst in S2 mainly because of lost potential or didn’t rectify problems from Episode 3. Such as Nick being really a pointless character if survived in episode 2, Sarah possibly being a stronger character but still dies, Arvo who’s ending of episode 4 could have been a great way to show how the confrontation turns out (either the way it did in the game or possibly Arvo having good intentions but his Russian pals not agreeing with him), Rebecca being forced to like instead of having the drastic relationships in S1 with Kenny, or how having Rebecca given water and time to rest meant nothing. The season itself felt like it needed another year before release

[@MariusBoss11458]

One thing which sucks is they try to rob us even after taking the bag. And they don't act differently. Clem has a Dialouge about that but nothing else.

[@Verdun16]

My favorite line in the franchise is the only good part of Amid The Ruins “You can’t put her in a confederate coat!”

[@noonebutme9420]

​@@Verdun16 mine is when Mike says "I would eat the shit out of that raccoon." Damn I loved him

[@AlmiranteLobo]

@@Verdun16Rebecca don’t care and put anyways.

[@ultimateaccount2186]

I suddenly have the ridiculous urge to mod the whole game to remake it with some of its cut content, even though I have no idea how to even mod.

[@slowdust9541]

ngl I too want to do this

[@legacytag]

To be honest I've always believed that Eddy was *intended* to show up in Amid the Ruins originally, being the character that betrays Carver's group instead of Bonnie, due to being a character that could end up with Carver no matter what the 400 days choices ended up being. I do know that Eddy ended up showing up in season 4 in Clem's flashback (it was confirmed to be him as well) eventually, but I think he was meant to show up in the original drafts of the story Though I will say I see where you're coming from with this theory

[@MariusBoss11458]

Gotta say. If people wanna talk shit about the Eddie death then blame Skybound. We're already talking shit about the Comic! What's one more?

[@kontrolzee1761]

I reckon that would have been better. Like you said, the russians were boring antagonists for the last two episodes. Would have been way better if the antagonists were Carvers group.

[@nd55662]

I love how Eddie is an important backbone of this franchise.

[@Kyle_lofc]

It’s been almost a year since the walking dead game series ended. And it’s been 6 years since season 2 came out. And yet we are still finding hidden secrets and theorising about what could’ve been. I love it

[@chrishowell6469]

400 Days was a missed opportunity. I replayed it it so many times and was so excited what was going to happen to them. It's incredibly unlikely, but I'd love a follow up story based around the 400 Days Characters. Depending on who came with Tavia, this would follow the characters (excluding Bonnie) after they narrowly escape the horde. It wouldn't need to be long, just at least offer some finality for them.

[@DalekOfChaos666]

Here's my suggestion. Tavia and the 400 Days characters are pissed off. They destroyed their home and killed their leader and these characters deserved more than cameos. Eddie is scouting for their location. Eddie is taken hostage. So when Tavia and her people corner Clem and the others, Bonnie is trying to make peace with them since they were her friends. But after Rebecca is turned and when either Clem or Kenny shoot her. Bonnie is the first casualty. I’d like to think the rest of episode 5 is about the group being hunted by Tavia’s people and trying to save AJ, however Tavia wants the baby as Carver convinced her that the baby is his. Ultimately it ends with Mike, Jane, Vince, Becca, Shel, Wyatt, Eddie, and Russell dead and only Clem, Kenny, AJ, Luke and Tavia left alive. The final choice is about who you save from Tavia. Kenny or Luke? I think something like this would’ve been better than that loathsome little shitbird and the Kenny vs Jane drama.

[@catabc-rd8dy]

If they ever make a walking dead "reanimated" game to redo the story without mistakes and with a more fleshed out story and with optimized graphics as well as remastering it and making choices actually matter, then they better hire you to make sure they don't fuck it up.

[@ghostplasma5590]

I feel like Eddie and Wyatt would ultimetly become prisoners of our group and Kenny would beat them up. They would then escape along with M....sorry Ralph or not. I really wish we got something like: Eddie: "thanks man! I tought this psycho was gonna kill us!" Wyatt: "Couldn't leave you behind" I loved Wyatt Eddie bromance so much....underrated bromance. Kenny and Lee was perfect. Eddie and Wyatt underrated.

[@fakeninja4447]

Hey InColdBlood, you have no idea how excited I get every time you upload, it's like finally getting to watch that movie you've looked forward to for months. Your videos are just so interesting and I get equally hyped every time, thank you! First of all, I agree so much about the season 2 menu, it is fantastic. The season 2 menu sets up a dark and depressing tone when you open it up and the slides and the cut episode select music perfectly sets up what kind of game this is going to be, or originally was going to be... every other season menu seems to have very little thought and effort put into it but season 2 one is really special. The Amid The Ruins chapter has always seemed very unique and interesting to me. I mean, what does the name even mean? The slides go from making sense to Clementine suddenly putting blood on her face with creepy silhouettes in the background, I remember having chills when I first saw it back in 2014. In Harm's Way seems to take an extremely dark turn towards the end when Carlos gets eaten in front of his daughter, Kenny destroys Carver's skull and everything ends with Jane saying "They're all gonna die Clementine, don't let them pull you down with them." It actually felt like the moment Clementine's group left Carver's camp, they had no idea what they were walking into. However, episode 4 was nothing like it was implied by the previous episode and the title screen, music etc, it just felt too comedic and rushed all of a sudden. Another thing I'm thinking about is, like you said, Telltale did change certain season 2 thumbnails, even after release, yet the episode 5 thumbnail remained almost unchanged after having nothing at all to do with the episode, why do you think that is? There was no town in episode 5, there was not even a mention of a town, it's like the thumbnail is from a completely different season. Also, do you think it's the same town in the episode 5 thumbnail that you see in Amid The Ruins? The town you see in Amid The Ruins looks very small, barely reaching the treetops while the town in the episode 5 thumbnail looks huge, almost like Savannah, what on earth was going on in the development exactly? And about the music, I always found it strange how every episode, especially the first two, had many many original soundtracks that were made for specific scenes while episode 4 basically just reused old season 1 and 400 days music. Could it be that there was original music composed for episode 4 but that it was cut because they didn't fit the new tone? I mean, the original menu soundtracks were cut out for a reason, weren't they? Why else would they reuse so much music in episode 4 specifically? Honestly, I'm not even sure how I would improve this episode if I got the chance, I would just want it completely rewritten from start to finish, there is not much I liked about it. I feel the same way about episode 5 but at least the endings were really well made, and that saved the season for me, or at least made it okay. Still no response from the season 2 writers either... which is kinda bizarre, I saw a few of the old writers talk about off-screen secrets in TWD season 1 here on youtube pretty recently, yet they refuse to say anything at all about the season 2 story? Why? Do they not realize that we are curious about this or do the actually just ignore us on purpose? If so, why?

[@InColdBloodTTG]

You have encapsulated my thoughts into a single comment. Amazing. I remember the feeling of massive disappointment after playing EP4. It was absolutely nothing like what I imagined and the direction they took the story was not one I was fond of. I think it's the first time I ever felt let down by a WD episode but I didn't really know it at the time. It's like surviving a car crash (alright maybe not THAT extreme) and being totally confused and blindsided by what just happened. Since then, I've come to appreciate the smaller details of the episode because I do think there's one or two things I like that they didn't do with the other episodes but I still would rate it as one of the worst WD episodes. You make a really good point about the music I never thought about before... I can only think of like one or two new tracks. I know for a fact that S2E5 has some tracks cut that ended up being used in ANF but I have to wonder if Amid the Ruins was the same. As for the EP5 slide, they changed it's name really late into development because it's PS3 trophy name was still 'Better to Sleep' even though all the others had their updated name. It's just a really bizarre situation all around and that's why it's so annoying to not have any answers. The only reason I can think of for why they don't answer our questions is because they're not proud of the work and don't want to talk about it or because they just genuinely don't know... but then I feel like you would straight up admit that you don't know why X or Y changed. Thanks for the comment btw, what was the offscreen secrets you learned about? I haven't heard about this.

[@fakeninja4447]

I know that episode 5 changed its name, thanks to your video! I was more thinking about the thumbnail, it shows the road towards a huge city, nothing we've ever come close to in season 2, really strange. I'm sure that some writers definetely know what happened, but it could very well be like you say, that they aren't proud of its chaotic development. And here's the off-screen secrets video I was talking about: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pp2kZnd8q5yJmbc It was very recently actually and it involves a few old employes like Nick Herman, who helped write the early stuff for ANF/season 3 and was most likely involved with season 2 as well.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

@@fakeninja4447 Ah, thanks for the link. I actually posted a comment clarifying something in that video lol

[@dawn1558]

Arent your fibgers getting tired? o.O

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

With season 2 I knew some members of telltale forums and the actual studio. Now their are actually allege to be 3 different versions of Episode 4. 1. What you stated in this video(something like it was going to happen) 2. What was actually the deal with the Russians originally was that they were members of the Russian Mob who got stranded in America after trying to escape using their contacts in D.C. this was suppose to built up to with Arvo being pressed into their gang. 3 the more expand versions had carvers group and the Russians showing up at the same time. Carver’s original purpose for running the camp with forced labor, hard rules and cold brutality because he was in a conflict with the Russians. The Russians were members of the Russians mob who trafficked medicine and came into conflict with Carver’s group for resources. The idea was that some of the 400 days crew like Wyatt and Vance were going to be their and survival was determine by players actions. The Russians would be their because not only did Jane rob them, they were the nemesis of Carver and his group. Their also was going to be a plot point around Eddie’s connection to the Russians, who were dealing drugs to Eddie in exchange for something(never found out what it was. I speculate weapons, or information on Carver’s camp) Elements of Carver’s group vs the Russians was borrowed for The final season with Lily.

[@AdriansLasmanis]

Thrawn always was a smart dude

[@MoldycheeseJr]

Why didn’t they do this??? This sounds awesome

[@matthiessoffers589]

The more i watch videos like this, the more i start to think all of the previous story builds are just better than the main ones. When i heard about TFS original plot, i was kinda frustrated by what we got, not to say TFS is bad or anything but it could've been so much more than it was. I played every single Walking Dead game and i am still dissapointed Telltale always toned the original stories down in how dark they were originally meant to be, ANF is a really good example of this, it was supposed to be a way more darker toned story that really made the player think but what we got was a predictable new set of characters and a story that was unnecessary to the overall story of Clementine, TFS' final episode was dissapointing because it didn't try to give a message to the player, it just kind of tricked you into thinking the main character was dead, and as well with the ranch, instead of giving Clementine a twist by making here do some messed up stuff they just toned it down alot, they made Clementine way too innocent to be a realistic character. and i just look at these cut content videos and think about how much more special some episodes could've had and how much more meaning the SHOULD have had. (I know this was more a rant than anything else but i just had to put my thoughts on paper)

[@wild5571]

Finally someone who agrees that, while good, TFS was heavily flawed! They built up what happened at the ranch only to find out nothing really happened at all, just your typical walking dead organized community being attacked.. hmm, wonder how many times that happened in this game?? I honestly feel like after season 2 the game just dipped in quality. And its partially season 2's fault, I'll admit (despite it being my favorite season). And that twist ending. *sigh* Given that it was the final season, I wish there were multiple endings. I can deal with Telltales choices not mattering, since it makes sense that they wouldn't wanna branch out their stories too heavily, but since it was the FINAL season, they really had no excuse to be lazy. I know this sounds morbid, but Clem dying should have been an ending. Or AJ. It would have added consequences for your decisions.

[@skylardunbar1193]

season 2 is my favorite season because of how mysterious and dark it was originally going to be. like dying alone with aj in hypothermia? that is pretty dark but i am living for it

[@shesholdingcorn]

Literally obsessed with your videos. Truly hope you make more discussion videos about season 4 and other stuff. So glad other people are interested in this stuff.

[@MrBanditheart]

Thank you for shining light on this the image of Clem putting blood on their face was so baffling and out of place compared to the episode but I like the idea of the 400 days crew ambushing Clem's group.

[@lilyhero1033]

I think this is a really viable theory. The only piece of evidence I don’t think is that solid is the one about Jane calling Arvo a junkie, since, like... he is holding a bag full of drugs after all, and Jane is naturally suspicious. However, that could also explain why they left it in, if it was a remnant from when Eddie was Arvo- it was inconspicuous enough that they figured nobody would notice. Great video as always!

[@InColdBloodTTG]

Fair point. For me though, just from looking at Arvo's leg, his broken glasses, how terrified he is etc. It just seems far more likely that he would be someone that uses those drugs to medicate himself rather than for recreational use like Eddie.

[@critchblackpoolful]

I think you're absolutely spot on!! I think the reason they removed the characters was because them characters was liked by people and they didn't want to upset the fans

[@tomurashigaraki3636]

Honestly the biggest flaw with this game is the fact they went in without knowing the full story they're telling. If they had taken their time and really worked on the plot then it could've been a masterpiece

[@randomuploader2276]

The whole idea of Clementine going back home to Atlanta, makes sense to me *in this idea*. If season 4 went a different route (depending on choices from season 2) there should've been an option to go to Florida and find Kenny. If you had let Kenny live at the end of season 2 and entered Wellington, Kenny's status is unknown/ambiguous but the best option we could've assumed is that he would've went to Florida to get on a boat, it's all he ever talked about and the only plan he really ever had, it's even mentioned if you refuse to enter Wellington and go with Kenny (which would result in his death via the car crash) that's where you were heading. Now that could've/should've been a potential premise for season 4, the whole idea of it would be to head to Florida for a chance to settle down and "find a home" and possibly look for Kenny although we don't know his status. This could use this sort of make the final season a full circle nostolgia trip for Clementine as she goes back to Atlanta, finds her house and possibly drive or get to Macon and she may encounter the drug store or motel. I don't know, it doesn't really work all together but an interesting proposal nonetheless.

[@sophmari27]

i believe this to make a whole lot of sense, but even if eddie wasnt supposed to be arvo and the 400 days characters werent supposed to be in place of the russians, you have to admit that there HAD to be more relolving around both groups. the russians felt so out of place and random that it kind of feels obvious that more was supposed to happen there, and theres no way that they made the 400 days DLC without intentions for season 2 that go further than one-liner cameos. for example, there must have been more in-depth reasons as to why arvo hated clementine, but nothing was ever really clear and you have dig deep to even figure out why he was so pissed about clem killing his walkerfied sister. translations show he thought she was still alive and crawling towards clem for help but she shot her in the face, hence why he got his revenge on clem by shooting her in the shoulder. i wouldnt be surprised if he was aiming for the head but missed his aim because of the tense situation. it just feels...off to me. its such an unrealistic reason to hate somebody, especially when you consider the fact that his hatred for her becomes such a massive part of the story that there is NO WAY to redeem Arvo in your playthrough, you can't make peace with him, you cant try and settle your differences, nothing. my guess is that eddie WAS meant to be arvo, 400 days characters as russians, and he was a genuine, trusted member of clems group, and he and eddie were trying to calm the situation when the 400 days people were trying to get revenge on clems group for, you know, brutally murdering their leader and destroying their entire home. however, a shot was fired, both sides also began to fire and its a war between both sides before you know it. i imagine Wyatt probably gets injured, bleeds out, but attacks clementine and you have to shoot him dead to save yourself or try to escape but get him killed by a walker or let him turn or something. just two choices which make it so either outcome makes wyatts death clementines fault. eddie would see this and resent clementine because there was never any bad blood between him and wyatt and they were the only two trying to calm people down. it would just be so much more clear and...well, better.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

Exactly. It feels like a classic Telltale choice where no matter what you choose the outcome is never really a positive one (but the outcome isn't harsh if you didn't do the 'bad' thing like what you mentioned with Arvo's medicine). You don't want anybody in the 400 Days group to die (well, at least I wouldn't) but at the same time you know that it can't end well. It just feels better written and more appropriate for the story.

[@robalus-san9205]

Wyatt and Eddie do have reason to resent each other. If Wyatt is left behind, he's really became pissed off and distrusting.

[@sophmari27]

@@robalus-san9205 good point! maybe thats why the game tracks your choice of who left who behind. the fight could start differently and have multiple outcomes based on how wyatts character reacted to eddie or whether he was even there TO react. i assume this is why, if this theory is correct, it was cut from the game. theres a lot of choices regarding the 400 days characters that would have to come into play and we all know telltale wasnt exactly amazing at providing a variety of choices that actually matter lmfao.

[@robalus-san9205]

@@sophmari27 I think same. While I can believe that Eddie would be the type to actually forgive Wyatt, if it was the other way around, Wyatt would be for blood. Or at least that's my impression of them. And yeah, telltale games besides making illusions of choices, also have mess of the story thx to having so many writers. I enjoy learning about cut content, but with TWD it's often downgraded in the final version (not always, it's hard to be objective on it, cause cut content always seem better, even if it wouldn't make sense and unlike final ver, usually lacks execution and stops on concepts and scraps).

[@dawn1558]

What?

[@saiyanc137]

Maybe Eddie-Arvo was the one "Amid the Ruins." The ruins being the crumbling season 2 group he was likely trying to be part of.

[@k.s.vilrod1964]

In cold blood, I think your idea would make sense wyatt could have been the one to die and become a Walker and Eddie would be saddened and pissed at clem's group for killing his once lost best friend. Edit: oh yeah thanks for making this video, very entertaining and interesting

[@yourrandomperson]

It really makes sense. Telltale loves to play with our emotions. (And that's both a curse and a blessing...) Their power to make us feel is also their main product. And yes, I know, plot is important too. But we can forgive little inconcistences if they can make us feel something towards these fictional characters, right? That's why I believe there's at least one point where your 'last' theory is right. Making people choose between two groups... is a brilliant idea. Something that Telltale would definitely do. Maybe there was even supposed to a big 'war' between these groups? That'd be great. Great video, thank you for pointing out these details. Keep up with good work! ❤️

[@laaaneful]

Your videos give me such joy when I watch them, they always remind me why discovering cut content for TT games is such a thrilling adventure :) Keep up the good work!

[@thebreakfastmenu]

Your videos are the last bastion of great TWD content. It's only been a year since it all concluded but it feels like a lifetime.

[@Simply_Ando]

I think essentially everything that you've said makes sense. Out of all the 400 days characters besides maybe Vince or Tavia, I think Eddie had the most freedom as to what could happen with his storyline. The fact that the writer just dismissed him to be a death for clem in the later seasons is just beyond me.

[@anthonyregalado7336]

Your explanation is pretty good. It makes the 400 days more better and more interesting. It also made it more reasonable why the dlc should be there, it makes want to buy the dlc and learn about their backstory. For the final game they made the 400 days characters useless and uninteresting characters. They also made them seem like random carver goons.

[@silentnoise8890]

This is a really GOOD theory but I am very sad because telltale has wasted some great potential on making this game more interesting. Looking forward in the next video! 😃

[@fancywoh1130]

Ughhh the fact that eddie came back for one second in the final season just to be killed by clem , telltale just WHY🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@basedrei3529]

It honestly reminds me of horror movie sequels such as Friday the 13th part 2 or Halloween Resurrection, where they bring back the main protagonist from the last movie, just to have them killed off in the very beginning.

[@matthiessoffers589]

I remember writing a comment on your TFS ending theory video (I saw you showed my comment in this video). I remember thinking it was absolutely ridiculous because how would she ever return, later on I realized you were right and that I was just kinda being ignorant. I didn’t want to believe it, anyway I wanted to say that I respect the amount of research you do on these kinds of videos and that it would be cool if you did this kinda stuff on let’s say The Last Of Us or something, I’d surely watch that. Edit: I just wanted to note that I really enjoy your type of content and that you do a really good job at doing these analysis type of videos.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

Thanks! No harm done. I want to say that me showing the comments was never supposed to be trying to make fun of people or whatever, it was just to show that people can get a bit caught up on their own ideas (and in my previous theory, you had very good reason to doubt what I was saying). I just couldn't argue with the evidence since it just didn't make sense for their to be brand new textures for clementine's house if they didn't intend on going back there. It was the evidence that lead me to my theory, not the other around. It's why it kind of bothered me a bit that people immediately tried to shut down everything without good reason.

[@matthiessoffers589]

@@InColdBloodTTG Yeah i feel you, i can imagine getting frustrated when you make an in depth theory and people turn it down like you just made the most crazy shit up.

[@swampwench]

Man I cant believe I'm watching all these videos now I remember after watching season 4 of the series I just hopped off of telltales content and I haven't been back until now. I feel that same happiness when I was like 11 hearing the announcement that TWD was getting a season 2. I'm super excited to binge all these cut content videos!

[@RJeffTaker]

It is so weird how no one from Telltale ever explain the issues of S2 and the weirdness of 400 Days cast that didn’t have a proper ending beside Bonnie. And I supposed Eddie 10 seconds cameo too..

[@yttanel]

Your theory actually makes sense, 400 days would've actually had more use other than seeing them for 10 seconds in season 2. P.s whatever happened to the wolf amoung us cut content video? It seems to be privated

[@InColdBloodTTG]

I was too embarassed by it. It wasn't the worst video ever but it could be much better so I'm remaking it after my next video.

[@ghostplasma5590]

@@InColdBloodTTG I also have a theory about Leland. I think he was supposed to come back too. And no matter of he stayed becouse you told the truth or came with Bonnie becouse she lied he would find out Bonnie killed his wife. He would most likely be with Eddie and expose Bonnie's lie or simply tell the group what she did. Kenny who lost his wife would understand his pain and threaten Bonnie. That would force her to leave. Becouse in original it makes no sense for her to leave.

[@yttanel]

@@InColdBloodTTG understandable can't wait for it :)

[@versal5364]

I would have never thought of this It makes a lot sense now that you think about it so great job! Although one thing that kinda bugs me is that when Eddie in TFS during Clem's flashback, which we know takes place after ANF, is alive and with completely different people. I say this because Eddie is modeled after one of the developers at Telltale and they wanted to "kill his likeness" in that scene, which means that if they were planning on using Eddie beforehand then they probably didn't expand on it that much and probably didn't even decide if Eddie would die or not in the end. The fact that he's alive and killed off though in TFS is a bit of an enigma itself though to me even if the answer is just "he's based on someone here and he wanted his likeness to be killed off". Either way nice video dude! Can't wait for more!

[@pattymelt5825]

I'm really glad that you made this video. It's been years since season 2 came out and I still ponder about how differently the story could have been if they hadn't changed it

[@reecethesims.]

This makes so much sence since we had a whole extra chapter about the 400 days charter

[@Jackerette]

I'm really enjoying the content, and I'm really excited about the upcoming videos you've got planned. Can't wait for the next one!

[@AwesomeElias]

my favorite episode ever, and the episode preview was amazing. never forgot about it, half a decade later.

[@The_Cranberry_ghost]

I think russel tavia would be angry while wyatt and shel would try calm things down and vince would be trying to pick a side

[@N4m4ste]

Yeah, if your theory indeed was the initial plan, they should've done it that way. I really feel like the way the season played out is a total train wreck with lots and LOTS of wasted potential.

[@legacytag]

I'm glad Eddie at least got a confirmed ending in the S4E4 flashback...Sadly it doesn't end well for Eddie

[@mahira1659]

I honestly agree, Keep up the good work, one of the few youtubers I actually look forward to watching!

[@MrCraftingWithOak]

I could listen to you talk about these theories forever, there's barely any 400 days related discussion out here and how it plays into season 2. You could do like, a timeline of where all the 400 days characters ended up, starting with the elderly characters from Season 1, maybe go over which order the 400 days episodes actually take place, etc. I know these games are old, but I feel like there's so much stuff I don't know. Does Russell ever elect to join Tavia by himself or is it exclusive to Tavia's dialogue choices? What was the deal with Roman being dead? Etc. But yeah, these games are overflowing with interesting cut content and even just subtle stories/character moments in the background. Legitimately would watch you recap the main plot of each season, with explanations about certain character motivations and different outcomes, like Jolene's history with the St. John's based on what little information we get, or the entire colony at Crawford. There's so much environmental storytelling and there's so much to miss on just one playthrough.

[@gygfdzdfgb]

I remember going back and forth in the menu when I was younger, I miss those days

[@Redberd36]

I was always a bit confused on what the “war paint” imagery means. Like every other episode slide makes sense given the context of that episode, but this episode. I’m guessing it was too late to remake the slide to make more sense.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

It's so peculiar. I could be totally wrong but it might be because of laws in certain countries. I'm not totally sure. Clementine is holding her arm in the ep1 slide but there's no blood at all. If you ask me, the beta/ps3 diorama clem looks newer than the 'warpaint' looking one. You would also think they would change it, right? They made several changes to the slides after episode 2 released, and then another time when episode 3 released they changed the background entirely. You have to wonder why they didn't do the same for episode 4.

[@lisdraconis2212]

Your version does make more sense and since those who played 400 days are at least a little more attached to them (because we know their backgrounds) it would have been a really intense moment. We had Bonnie and Eddie in the group and Bonnie sucked ass but also Clam and Luke who we cared for. The other group had Vince and Shel in the with them. After all those years I am still sad that the 400 days characters were literally pissed away. Eddie made a reappearance in S4 where he was killed by Clem but that was it. A shame... they were all so interesting characters (even bonnie because was so unlikable)

[@lorikeet6782]

Great video as always, I love how much thought you put into your videos! It is really sad how season 2 ended up. If the story had turned out the way it does in your theory, it would have been really interesting and had a great payoff. I’m still so confused about why they changed so much of the story to stray away from 400 days. It’s baffling how their original version of the story seems to be way better than what we have now. We could’ve gotten something much better, but... we didn’t. :(

[@brandonowen422]

the guy in the back could be the kidnapper from season 1

[@lastshadow1128]

What kidnapper?

[@yyokage]

Sarah Umayyad calm down habibi💀

[@wardinalex4078]

@@AcidicRadioo Doug is the one in the front left, ColdBlood even mentioned it

[@oldgreggsmadmemes4431]

The Russians make no sense Eddie would have been a great idea tbh

[@WardenofTheN0rth]

I really appreciate your in depth analysis. Keep up the great work.

[@MrFasoal]

This video came Outta nowhere but I’m damn happy to see it 😂 keep the great job up bro👍

[@oakisap]

I was always confused on the cover for episode 4, because it didn’t fit in with the actual episode

[@sparrow6437]

Seeing someone interested in this game delights my heart

[@SargeantMario101]

Man, hearing all of this has got my blood boiling again. Nice video, man. Looking forward to the next one.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

I'm glad you're still here! Pretty happy I've still got old fans from 2017.

[@ghostplasma5590]

I agree 100%. After I first completed Amid the Ruins I had the same theory.

[@MrR3e]

14:15 This got me thinking. In your final S2 Cut Content Update video, you showcase a knife that it seemed like Arvo was going to use. Considering that if Eddie left Wyatt behind, Eddie wouldn't have his gun, do you think it's possible that the knife was made for a determinate version of the scene where Eddie left Wyatt? If Wyatt left Eddie, then Eddie would've still had his revolver. So based on your choice in 400 days, Eddie/Arvo would have a different weapon. This could add a bit more credence to your theory besides the argument of Telltale having a history of making continuity mistakes

[@pphams1780]

I herd this quote "don't wait for the storm to pass learn to dance in the rain" it reminds me of when they walked through the walkers

[@elizabethstarke9390]

I was obsessed/ infatuated with s2s dark aesthetic, especially those episode pictures / names you and me realize I still am 😭

[@maelysd.7101]

Yeah Seasong 2 really has a unique visual ambiance, the colours and environmental settings seem to go with a feeling of isolation and growing hopelessness closing in on the characters.

[@masonsucksatwriting1914]

I’d also like to point out that a 2nd 400 Days song plays when Arvo is once again present, and it’s actually the same song that plays when Wyatt or Eddie is going to investigate the guy that they hit. It plays at the end of the episode when Arvo and the Russian mercenaries prepare to ambush the group.

[@AbeVsTheWorld]

I thought I was the only one that found the diagram and that eerie music of episode 4 very intriguing. Is like if Clementine enter the shadow realm or something.

[@EwaldZero]

You have earned a new fan dude. Keep up the great content. I love how much details you put in your work 👍

[@TheFalsoblanco]

Man this guy could talk for hours and make this entretaning. Nice job keep it up buddy

[@lurk3rcz]

15:07 What if the game keeps track of the person who left the car, resulting in Eddie having a different gun or weapon if Wyatt is the one who left the car with the gun?

[@anactualamateur8618]

6:04 I know I’m 3 years late, but when I saw that persons silhouette in the back, it immediately reminded me of the stranger from season 1, and out of all the characters from season 2, that silhouette resembles Troy the most.

[@governorofhawaii2380]

I've heard some people say it was Dee since Bonnie's actions in this episode are quite notable. I really want to know what the thought process behind the design of this diorama was. It doesn't actually represent the final product but everyone always says it's aesthetically cool, which I definitely agree with, and perhaps that's what the devs were going for. Something that doesn't actually mean anything but looks really cool.

[@becancoleman4782]

This would make the story much more interesting if this made it to the final game.

[@gavinwhite8506]

The plot where the 400 days cast tracks down Clem's group makes more sense because Clem and her group basically destroyed their home and thus they have a legit reason to go after them. I’d like to think that the 400 days cast would join the group solely because of Eddie and Wyatt knowing each other that’s a story arch I’d love to have seen.

[@toyo8460]

This is amazing, I agree him showing up again like that would have been amazing.

[@_Thinkin]

13:15 the way you delivered this has me laughing out loud in my room at 1 in the morning💀 Seriously tho this is a really good video my friend!!!

[@QuentacosIsMe]

I’m sad that we didn’t see Eddie in season 2 but at least he was in TFS for a few seconds

[@jayes13]

TFS? And if you mean the final season then when?

[@QuentacosIsMe]

arken Yes The Final Season. Eddie appears in episode 4 in the flashback

[@Egg_Savior]

It was when Eddie was killed by Clem after trying to get and save A.J. back.

[@0subsWith0vidsChallenge]

His death was so stupid. They might have as well kept his fate unknown.

[@Isaiah20035]

@@0subsWith0vidsChallenge agreed

[@icydemonreaper2187]

Season 2 would have been better if It was on the Original Script and more darker but It felt so rushed.

[@lazyspongie]

Arvo/Eddie having Eddie's gun even if he didn't have it in 400 days might not actually be a plot hole since there are unused animations of Arvo having a knife instead

[@sum_mann]

Exactly I was thinking about that too

[@nekome7607]

Amazing video as always! This theory make's a lot of sense and I am kinda sad that they didn't use Eddie in the end. People don't like 400 days cause they think it is useless and it doesn't really give the story much. If Eddie was more involved in this game maybe 400 days would have felt a little better experience than what it was. And still it was very interesting that they used Eddie in season 4. Why Eddie? Why did they use him but not the cast that was playable in 400 days? I dunno but if your theory is correct that the 400 days people were actually in that shooting scene instead of Russians maybe they changed the characters cause 400 days didn't do well? Honestly I don't know how well that DLC made but maybe that might be the reason why they didn't use Eddie and the 400 days group more. Thx for the video :)

[@DarkButz]

I think the writers never had a draft of the whole story of Season 2 and just made stuff up as they went on from episode to episode. Why? Because of the beginning of Episode 5. Episode 4 ended with point-blank shooting, Episode 5 begins with the protagonists suddenly being behind cover, pretty much destroying any suspense that Ep4's final scene created. It's like the writers had absolutely no idea how to believably make the team survive getting shot at from like 10 meters and just said "fuck it, just teleport them to safety".

[@berd9054]

from what we understand of s2`s development, yeah, almost the whole season was written while they were still working on the game itself. But, considering the original episode slides are still in the game, the version we got of S2 is most likely a last-minute revamp of the original dark story script, with things such as eddie being arvo and luke and nick having their different models being changed veeeerrrryyyy late in development. Remember, ep 2 released THREE WHOLE MONTHS after ep 1. What (from my POV) happened: they had the dark story script, (carver using troy´s model, luke vs kenny, the fishing scene, eddie as arvo, mike being the bandit who attacked christa etc) but for wathever reason decided it wasn´t good enough, which ended up making the writers and developers rework this script during this 3 month period between ep 1 and ep 2 release. Obviously, they didn´t have everything ready for release after ep 1, but some of the assets and story beats that were being developed for the rest of the episodes based on this ``dark story script`` ended up being repurposed and discarded, leaving us with the game as it is. A big mess overall, with remnants of what was once a somewhat different story

[@DarkButz]

@@berd9054Wow, that's quite bad, but if confirms what I thought. They would change so much wrote themselves into holes they couldn't get out of.

[@Isaacfess]

Nice theory man. I *wish* it played out like that in the game.

[@RedLemonCola]

This is great theory btw, I never thought of this

[@yaragilmour4648]

Why didn’t Telltale just hire you as a writer. Fuck, that sounds so much better than what we got. (Which, to be fair, isn’t a difficult thing to achieve, but still.)

[@Laika-Sausage]

Tbh your voice is something I really enjoy in these videos

[@angryandwhite]

I cant express how much i like your videos.

[@skunkyemerson809]

Heya, been watching your videos for a while and this is still one of my favorites, and I just wanna say your voice is like, so relaxing! You have a really nice tone and flow of speech that’s really nice to listen to, I just wanted to tell you that haha

[@PoipoleEntertainment1987]

The character in the back of Clementine that can’t seen looks like a mix between Lee, but the character looks like the stranger from season 1

[@Kotomine.1]

It could be Troy

[@Ryderboycolor9]

I actully 100% Beliave your Theory good job man

[@williamgrossmann2501]

Details are very fuzzy but, back in the days, maybe a few weeks after Amid The Ruins had released, Kevin Bruner himself (Telltale CEO at the time) held some sort of an AMA on TTG forum after the fans' outcry about the episode or something like that. Anyway, I distinctively remember someone asking him what was the deal about Eddie being in the episode card but not being present in the episode. Is answer ? Well, again, details are fuzzy but if I recall correctly, he either mentionned that the story was re-written or simply that Eddie was a placeholder (bullshit if you ask me). So, yeah. Anyway, I enjoyed the vid, thank you !

[@InColdBloodTTG]

I was on the forums pretty extensively at the time (I was very obsessed with TWD back then, guess I still kinda am If i'm still making videos) but I don't remember this at all. if this really happened then I'm mad that I never saw it. Thanks for the comment, appreciate it. Also obligatory "fuck Kevin Bruner".

[@williamgrossmann2501]

@@InColdBloodTTG I think it happened because one of the writer (Mark Darin?) mocked Sarah's death during an IGN interview with Greg Miller ??? The fan base didn't take this too well and so Bruner decided to do some damage control and answered fans' question at the same time. Again, this is very fuzzy, but I'm sad that you couldn't see it for yourself :(

[@skyabove7304]

Okay so I really like the theory presented here, but there's one thing that bugs me. The Clem's group vs 400 Days group showdown would indeed be way better than what we got, but how would that work in the extreme scenario of only Bonnie joining Tavia at the end of 400 Days? It only makes sense when Wyatt is involved, but his presence at Howe's is dependent on our choice in the DLC.

[@InColdBloodTTG]

Carver's camp had other people besides the 400 days character so if the really weren't intending on using them then the random characters from Howe's would replace whoever didn't go with Tavia.

[@SteveCowlishaw]

Nah thats too stupid. With Telltale, if there's a chance some people wont have them in their games then they put as little effort into their characters as possible, which they did. So they wouldn't really have gone to the effort of having Vince etc in the ambush if they were going to have other people read those lines anyway. You make the argument that people put in the effort to make those characters. People also put in the effort to make and voice Arvo and the Russians too.

[@MariusBoss11458]

@@InColdBloodTTG I'm actually thinking. The way you said it and how they're still looking for revenge. Yeah Wyatt could be a bonus to that scene being bigger.

[@TheFancyFedora]

I would have loved this! Such as shame so much was changed and 400 days was less important.