The WILD World Of Chinese Copycat Design!

[@richardike2342]

Thanks for another great analysis Frank. An Asian Pilot once told me that their principle of copying other Car designs was first done by the Japanese in the 60's, followed later by the Koreans, and now the Chinese. It is called imitation-to-innovation.

[@wyskass861]

While we may dislike it, it's certainly and effective and very understandable.

[@kylesoler4139]

To be fair car companies take inspiration from others all the time.

[@user-jk7yz3xs8z]

@@kylesoler4139 do you have a source?

[@riaz8783]

@@user-jk7yz3xs8z This video. Car designers move between companies and take ideas with them. Or you could argue that the Ford Mondeo and Fiestas have grilles very reminiscent of Aston Martins.

[@GetOffMyLog]

@@riaz8783 Ford straight up stole that design lol

[@rammpage4468]

Everybody copy when they just start their development, the only difference is China start copying during this explosive information age, and everyone can easily know about it; whereas UK, Germany, USA, Japan, when they began their copying time, people didn't know about it due to limited media outlet.

[@frq325]

That is what I think, so true, it is kinda unfortunate for Chinese car manufacturers.

[@sparklell5867]

@@frq325 it's unfortunate for the whole chinese product

[@Bestlivexg]

Not true what you said.. No one never seen Japanse cars look like BMW.. Benz or American cars look like Japanse cars

[@frq325]

@@Bestlivexg does Chinese car look like others in 2022?

[@chenzhao3905]

@@Bestlivexg but if you do some research on japan car industry history, you can found tons of copycat designs....hell we even put them in museums....

[@Few_politicians_run_your_life]

I am an designer and I always heard a lot of upper level engineer and management always say that Chinese will never be able to come up with they own design. I think those guys rack of world experience especially when it come to understand Chinese. Chinese like to learn and they push themselves to learn fast. Chinese open factory them save money then buy those companies the producing for. Western greed that only think about profit in short term but not long term. Today Chinese can do almost anything you can imagine. Supercar or luxury item is just a matter of time. When I was in design school a lot of Chinese or Asian student don't know how to draw but after the fifth term they become so good many work for well know Supercar company or big brand and many went back to China. But those big brand never say that the Asian or Chinese design them.

[@manin4568]

Still lags in safety and poor quality of service and parts

[@ranojap5010]

they even got Elon Musk copy (looks alike)...LOL

[@DavyBrando]

Quite a lot of comments in broken English lauding China. Evidently a cabal of Chinese shills have been hard at work here.

[@grantbuchanan7295]

@@manin4568 my gwm is has a 5 star ancap rating. And a 5 year warranty.

[@Raven-uu7lb]

Chery, Haval and JMC are Chinese car brands that are quite successful in my country (Malaysia) mainly because of the design. Geely however, they formed a partnership with PROTON in 2017 which gave Geely access to the Malaysian market and PROTON's expertise in producing right-hand drive vehicles. And PROTON got their hands on Geely's cars as an exchange and rebadge it as their own brand and sell it here in Malaysia. It does sell quite well here too.

[@Raven-uu7lb]

@Obby Do I look like I'm bragging about Geely buying Proton? Did I said "I'm proud that Geely bought Proton"? If so, okay Karen. I said partnership, not bought. Read that again.

[@dongxuzhou4661]

Geely cars are fine. It has the design of VW cars and its EV cars are of decent quality. There is a good price and quality balance there. I think those Geely cars are made in Malaysia and Geely definitely should cooperate with local corporations. We would still call those proton cars as Malaysian cars tho; it's more like Geely purchased some shares. 😆

[@algung2522]

Ya, it was not nice to brag about the marriage or take over of Proton Saga 笨蛋傻瓜 by China GEELY. Proton gone bankrupt, and ended up sleeping with this guy Geely, bearing mixed blooded babies! But ...what's wrong with mixed blooded babies, like S50 and S70

[@theallseeingeye9388]

@@dongxuzhou4661 The two models produced by Proton for the domestic market has given the brand a much needed push and they have been well received by Malaysians. The biggest negative at the moment is Protons service centres inability to quickly and efficiently address issues faced by these two models. Their people are not familiar with their own product, far from being a competently trained team. Especially when the waiting period is quite long when compared to other manufacturers products and when the customers finally take ownership new the process of addressing defects and other issues is worst than what Proton used to be in the past before Geely. Which was generally bad to begin with.

[@jimbojackson371]

I also see an increasing amount og Havals in Bangkok and i have to admit i like their design a lot. Beautiful and unique looking.

[@hotwheeler0461]

It's just unfortunate that China's copycat designs happened at an age where there was the Internet, and the world knew about it, but alot of great things began by copying and improving. Japan's auto industry also had similar copycats but weren't so widespread since there was no Internet back then. Compare these: -1973 Toyota Celica 2000GT Liftback vs 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback -1951 Toyota Jeep BJ vs 1941 Willy's MA -1963 Nissan Prince Skyline 1500 vs 1961 Fiat 2300 -1964 Mitsubishi Debonair vs 1961 Lincoln Continental

[@durim187]

how is Celica like mustang except they are both fastbacks? Do you think Ford invented that shape? Ford wasnt first with that shape even in America let alone in the world. And Among Nissan Prince and Fiat 2300, the original was Mercedes SL300. Debonair doesnt even look like the Lincoln at all, but suspiciously, both are similiar to older W111 albeit with headlights arranged horizontally.

[@TitanSKiZlz]

@@durim187 did you look at pictures of both cars, the back end is completely ripped off..

[@durim187]

@@TitanSKiZlz and mustang stole its side view from volvo p1800, world goes round and round

[@mrsoisauce9017]

@@durim187 that’s the point he was trying to make

[@durim187]

@@mrsoisauce9017 well, if you think cars will come with square wheels just for sake of inovation i have some news for you

[@jackmcslay]

11:15 The MiniEV is where electric cars should be going, as that's the segment where electric cars truly shine - small, lightweight urban commute vehicles, not general purpose sedans and SUVs you can take a family of 4 on a weekend trip. With a small size and low price and much lower power requirements it becomes attractive as an additional you use as your daily commute while you leave your regular 4-seater at home when for when you need extra capacity, or just rent a larger vehicle according to your needs on occasion. 12:47 I would totally buy that if I could! Who doesn't want a ride that looks like friggin Mecha Godzilla?!?

[@lilruss15]

yea I oddly found the "mecha dragon" kinda cool???

[@jrcan74]

I really agree your opinion, as living in city we really need a compact urban electric car, this can avoid all kind of worse incident, did anyone thinking about if we really need an high speed huge volume car running around in city? For that [Mecha Dragon], after we saw too much curve designs, a straight mechanism line design was so surprising & bright.

[@aimxdy8680]

I mean the smart fortwo EV version has a very tight turning radius and turns so light due to its light weight and it’s very efficient

[@jackau08]

the wuming mini is actually perfect electric car for cities in the west, buy it seriously need safety features to travel in likes of Australian roads where nut job SUV and pick up drivers would squeeze the mini for immediate car yard disposal.

[@jackmcslay]

@@jackau08 The point of these is to commute on city streets, not hitting the road to other towns. They do not have the range and speed required to go other cities, if they did they'd be adding a much bigger battery and motor and would end up a medium hatchback.

[@thewanderingrey8830]

Mecha Dragon is what my dream car would look like when I was a kid in the late 80s. It looks cool and edgy, ngl

[@aldyhabibie9717]

I would want that. I think it would look fantastic in Red.

[@dxq3647]

Cyberpunk 2077 vibes

[@Fouldeep123]

@@dxq3647 naa Gundam vibes, a laser cannon comes out the hood 😜

[@isakjohansson7134]

@@Fouldeep123 They one at motorshow painted like EVA Unit 1 from Neon Genesis Evangelion at least

[@yeowtom1788]

Chinese here, and imo very indepth but still remain objective video from the master Frank. Good content like usual ! For youtube, I will share a bit of very interesting facts about Chinese automobile world. 1. Until THIS very year, if any foreign car brand want to produce cars in mainland China, by the Chinese law, they have to find a Chinese local company and form a 50-50 sharehold comany with them to do that. So as a result for this very special regulation, there are TWO VW brands, TWO Toyota brands and TWO Honda brands you can find in the mainland market. (I mean they literlarly are spearted from factory lines, with mostly different poduction car models and different dealers) Plus the quality of the car/cars' aftersales' service will also be affected not only by the brand's capability, but also the Chinese company they are colab with. So as a result, in China you will find that most mid-age people recon a Ford is not mechanically reliable or a Chinese local built BMW is not high-qualtiy, and a Rover(yes the UK one) can be fixed with VW or GM parts(because one Chinese car company is producing Rover, Buick and VW at the same time). 2. China has one of the most strict emission standards currently at the world. We used to follow Eurpeaons' emission standard until 2019. Since the eco problem is happening,(also perhaps China has almost zero Internal combustion engine techology.) Chinese goverment tried many things to encourage people move to the EV area, that includs many many regulations like giving funds to elecrtic car developments(Chinese brands only ofc.), free & little-to-none-waiting-time license plates for EVs(while a normal plate's expense can easily cost equal that a daily family car plus months of waiting) and double the emission standards compare to the Euro 5. Because there is a lockdown happing in my town, I got lots of free times in the next few days. Ask me anything you want about cars in China and I will try my best to answer them. Stay safe & healthy everyone!

[@timzhu9845]

Some correction: 1. So far, the 50-50 sharehold policy have been changed. You can see BMW raise to 75% lately. And another good example is Tesla Shanghai plant, it is truly 100% owned by Tesla. No China domestic shareholder at all. 2. For the government fund of EV cars, which I see it is becoming a more widely practice across the whole world to encourage people to by EV/PHEV cars. It’s NOT only applied to China brands, it applies to all the brands and series as long as they fulfill certain criteria as of the range and etc. For the plate, for the cities like Beijing/Shenzheng/Shanghai and some others, who need to bid for the car plate, and it is super expensive.( Take Shanghai as example, plate can up to 15,000 USD) However, if you bought the EV/PHEV one, and they fulfill the criteria, and you can get a unique plate which is sticking to the EV/PHEV car. It is helping you save the time and money! I am also kinda of lock down and worked from home now, and I’m more than happy to discuss anything relating to the car. Cheers, and Stay Safe!

[@Schmitzelhaus]

Nice, thanks a lot for the insights, as we usually don´t get to talk to locals due to China´s internet policies. I guess you´re using a VPN? I would love to know your opinion on the current designs of BMW. Are the looks of the XM or the i4 well received in China? Because they´re very controversial over here in Germany to say the least. Thanks again for sharing some insights and best of wishes! I hope you get savely out of lockdown (i guess Shanghai?) over there as soon as possible! 👍

[@王天元-j2w]

@@Schmitzelhaus We think XM is rubbish. i4 is a little better but still rubbish

[@yeowtom1788]

​@@Schmitzelhaus Guten Tag! To answer this question properly, I need to give some background information. First, from marketing studies, a huge part Chinese car consumers prefers 'unique' characters on cars, no matter it is on a good side or not. Secondly, BMWs is a very, very likable brand in China, there is a common saying for Chinese car enthusiasts that called ‘BBA’, which stands for merc-Benz, BMW and Audi. Those 3 German brands are pretty much the first impression when mordern Chinese learned words like 'Luxury cars' or 'Performance cars', and now still remains the best-selling luxury/performance cars between 25k-80k CN dollars(roughly 3k-10k euros), that price range also happened to be the main market for the Chinese luxury car market. So to conclude, yes there are a lot of controversy among car lovers on recent BMW's design languages, especially the XM. But sadly imo the market would not 'care' and those models will have a good sale number, BMW's brand is still a HUGE selling point, the car will look unique on the road, and big-engine luxury SUVs/performance EVs wouldn't meet too many competitors on the market. For me it is just sad that I always think the F82 M4 is the best looking car from the last deacde, and it just took 6-7 years from that to the look of current 4 series :/. Nevertheless, with the dawn of the oil-running car is coming, any effort on trying to scale up the sales number for those old brands is a reasonable attempt to me. Also thank you for the kind words :D

[@freeking4291]

Loads of💩

[@budja1501]

This is a cool topic to make an episode on! I’ve been getting more and more interested in different regions of the world’s design styles and what defines them. Sensuality in Italian design, precision in German design, and restraint in british design. It’s interesting seeing where the design world is going. I would argue that british designs are beginning to incorporate the beautiful classical sensuality you’d typically find in italian cars. I.E. the Lotus Emira & Evija as well as Aston Martin. makes me wonder what will define each region's design languages in the future

[@M0torsagmannen]

i think French design is always interesting, i heard a saying once "the French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French" and i think it fits well for car design.

[@asmc1492]

@@M0torsagmannen French cars are weird. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes bad.

[@murmuriiii]

@@M0torsagmannen lol thats a good way to put. I also found it in their bike design, they are certainly uniqie in their own ways.

[@kalmmonke5037]

precision is als japanese culture thing, b/c higher intellegence. restraint is simplicity, which is desired by highly stressed people who want calm. sensuality is desires when one is not so tired. emira is uglier than it needed to be, frank dida video fixing it at a common sense standpoint.

[@budja1501]

@@kalmmonke5037 what does b/c higher intelligence have to do with anything? Anyways, yes- Japanese design can be characterized with precision as seen in the Nissan R35. however I feel the need to mention a design like the Lexus LC / LC 500 because it's a remarkably elegant and beautiful car that almost looks like it has a few design touches from mercedes' design department. the LC 500 has some elements I would expect to find on a british car and some elements I would expect to find on a german car also, even without Frank's masterful design input the lotus emira is one of the furthest new cars from ugly in a very, very long time

[@MaEh2007]

Another amazing episode and a great topic, Frank! I´d say there´s even another era happening right now: Chinese (car) companies slowly taking over old European car makers like Volvo (owned by Geely) or Mercedes Benz (partly owned by Chinese investor Li Shufu). My guess is that in the medium to long term, Chinese manufacturers want to be in the global game. To underline this, I find it very interesting that many European designers now work for/on Chinese cars or for Asian brands in general. You briefly mentioned Giles Taylor. He designed the Jaguar XK X150 and the XJ X351 (very happy to own one) under Ian Callum, then became Director of Design at Rolls-Royce Motor Cars and is now Global VP of Design for Chinese FAW Group. What´s your view on this: does this show that Chinese brands are investing heavily and wisely to compete in the global market, or are we looking at some sort of an elephant graveyard for top notch designers? ;-) Thanks again for doing this channel!! I love it! Cheers, Martin PS: We own one of "your" MINIs, too. #styleschangestyledoesnt

[@BOABModels]

That X5-alike suv has Opel/Vauxhall Vectra headlights and grille I think.

[@Phlegm_Thrower]

Very insightful video. However, cars these days, no matter where they were designed and made, bear some similarities to each other all the time. For example, the recently leaked electric Ford Mustang concept has a grille that looks very similar in shape to the current Suzuki Swift Sport.

[@dct124]

That Punk Cat is a really good design. Definitely looks like a Buggy, and is better looking than the last few Buggy models we've gotten.

[@cleve21ful]

The ora cat was designed by the person who designed porsche, so that's why it looks similar. I kind of actually like it, because it's very suitable for kids and college students.

[@derbigpr500]

Surprised a couple of them haven't been mentioned, which probably have the biggest potential of being world-wide successful, such as the NIO P8, Zeekr 001, Xpeng P5, Xpeng P7, Trumpchi GS8, Wey Coffe 01, Arcfox Alpha S, etc. Those are all great looking and also very good cars in general, surprised by their high quality from what I've seen in the Xpeng P7 and Zeekr 001, really feel premium all round with pretty unique interiors, which also seems to be a thing with these new Chinese cars. They're really pumping out some great interior designs which seem much more unique than exterior designs so far, and they seem to be focusing on very tasteful luxury without kitschy elements like we see in a lot of western cars nowadays, which is quite ironic. Some of the upcoming concept cars are really stunning too, and very unique, like the Nio ET (my personal favorite and probably the best looking sedan ever, albeit still a concept), Nio ET7, Zhiji L7, Hengchi 2, Geely Starburst Concept car. They're really pumping out unique and super nice cars, and the most impressive part is, they've got so many car companies coming up it's impossible to keep track of. The amount of designs they're pumping out reminds me of the crazy 50's and 60's in the US car industry when it felt like a new totally crazy and wild car appeared out of nowhere each month. The explosion of cars on their market was perfectly visible in the 2021 Shanghai car show, they've really set themselves up to become the world's most dominant car maker in the future if they can keep up.

[@ristekostadinov2820]

Where i live Seres is also popular car brand, they make EVs (currently they sell only 1 model where i live cost, between 30k and 35k euros)

[@siongtzer]

"If they can keep up" You can't really keep up by living in hell like Shanghai today.

[@mikez3421]

It's shame that people still can't buy Chinese EVs in North America. Hope they are coming soon.

[@mikez3421]

@@siongtzer only if you watch news solely negative about what is going on in Shanghai.

[@MaticTheProto]

Those aren’t copycats

[@JoshuaC923]

Not being old enough to watch the Japanese auto industry grow, it has been interesting of watching the Chinese and Korean auto industry growing👍🏻👍🏻 great video

[@serious1587]

I think it's elitist that western auto media doesn't give Chinese car designs a second look and I respect that Frank is open minded enough to do that

[@diogovieira3362]

probably because theres too much western design copying in all of them, like not just ideas, but almost total design cue ripoffs. Even brands like Kya and Hyundai are somewhat at fault for this

[@kalmmonke5037]

their still garbage or copying lol. byd dolphin are are the only exception. even japan has done far more

[@mvnorsel6354]

The public is very biased in Australia yet we buy so many Chinese vehicles. Go figure

[@InXLsisDeo]

It's pretty ridiculous that western companies complain about copying when the western cars are now pretty much all ugly looking SUVs that are literally undistinguishable from each other.

[@Zerpentsa6598]

Why is only China singled out as a "copy cat"? It is racism. Japan did it on almost every front - cameras, toys, guns, planes, cars, bikes, etc. The first few Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, etc were copies of western cars. South Korean did it. The first few Kias were replicas of Vauxhall Astras.

[@TamTran-vw7zm]

Thank you, Frank. Your kind and pithy comments lead us through realms we were unaware of. I for one, am grateful.

[@gritnltw]

Frank you are right. Nailed it. As a product designer working in Asia for non-Chinese companies, I have experienced copies of my designs as well. BUT up until 2010somthing, our Client companies would do nothing to sue the Chinese ones as there was no point. However, CCP changed its policy since 2010something, and in order to have Chinese companies to become genuinely competitive, the courts in China started ruling in favor of the foreign companies suing the Chinese ones over IP issues. 2 Client companies of mine did win.

[@_Wai_Wai_]

Well yea the Europeans and Japan, as well as USA shared technology with each other, while at the same time sanctioned technology transfer to China and perhaps even Russia. The CCP knew they were climbing a mountain while having foreigners throwing cold water on them. Everyone tried to contain China while at the same time taking advantage of China's low wage labor.

[@TheJociman]

Great video, super interesting listen! I personally found the great wall mecha dragon very desireable. It's reminescent of late 80's - 90's cars, almost Hot Wheelsy vibe, but then again I do have a tendency to like the _out-there_ models. Are you planning to do any more motorcycle related content? Cheers.

[@jeffluk1824]

Appreciate the comprehensive analysis of the development of the Chinese automobile design in the recent decades. Always entertaining and educational, thank you for your videos.

[@tomnewham1269]

I would love to hear Frank's take on the cars that were designed by Holden here in Australia. I know that Holden doesn't exist no more but some of the cars that Holden made especially in the later years I think would make a great topic. The VE/VF commodore, Monaro and the famous Efijy were in my opinion great looking designs.

[@peterkotara]

Quite right. Whilst Holden NO longler exist. It does not exist ANY more.

[@rynop99]

I see the late Commodore designs as derivatives of the the previous generation BMW 5 series. The VE strikes me as a lot like the E39 and the VF always looked a mix of the E60 and F10. If you were to split the grille into two kidney grilles (not unlike VT/VX), you get a strange looking BMW. By no means a bad thing, the VE/VF Commo is a great design and I’d say it’s German resemblance proves it.

[@CristianValenzuela2155]

Many people forget the Japanese started in car industry mimicking American cars as well.

[@TVCHLORD]

Toyota started the Lexus brand with a Mercedes clone

[@jamesengland7461]

not so closely though

[@sophisticatedthumb5364]

@@TVCHLORD Same with genesis

[@shezim6824]

As a Chinese and car enthusiast,I always try to insult those who drives a copycat car.I just don't think copying would help any car company going far and well.

[@ChristoAbrie]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" - Oscar Wilde. then there's also the parroting technique, the best way to learn something new is to imitate another person doing the activity. Singers often model their singing voice after some of their favourite singers, and in combining multiple singing styles they eventually form their own unique singing style. Designers often pull inspiration from multiple sources (including older cars) and by combining them they form a new design language. Straight-up copying is an example of where they missed a crucial step, adding originality. It's like a amateur singer singing their favourite artist's song exactly the way the artist would sing it without adding their own distinctive flare to it.

[@Sefpe]

Imitating is fraud and theft via impostering

[@_Wai_Wai_]

@@Sefpe and yet, everyone does it, even European and Americans

[@Sefpe]

@@_Wai_Wai_ everyone rapes, murders and shits their pants, doesn't make the behaviour aprovable positive or meritocratic.

[@kevinkarbonik2928]

NO, China is just buying cars and reverse engineering them, changing a few bits here and there and saving millions in R&D... The are liars, cheaters and thieves.

[@peterkotara]

@@_Wai_Wai_ We both know perfectly well that it is disingenous to pretend that European and American copying is anything remotely as blatant as that which Chinese companies engage in.

[@kingayvaz]

"Great Wall Mecha Dragon". They really don't want you to forget it's a Chinese car.

[@andrewduong2740]

It looks like a gaming PC

[@algung2522]

THANKS for a truthful review on the current state of CHINESE cars. Enjoyable, and easy to watch. A breathe of fresh air from UK; unlike bbc with its lies and ill-will when reporting on things CHINA.

[@Alexpktang]

Right on !, BBC, CNN, AP etc. when it come to news in China, always pick the negative to report !!

[@jamesengland7461]

I think the Ora Cat has a generic retro European small car flavor rather than a Porsche specifically. I really like it.

[@wildannandawicaksana5004]

I thought it similar with Fiat Abarth rather than Porsche

[@yourdeal2408]

The designer of the Ora is ex porsche designer ..........

[@saadsyed6690]

I want the NIO cars to come to North America and take on Tesla by storm. We need more competition in North America to bring the entry price of electric vehicles down.

[@Neojhun]

LOL NIO is expensive, it will not bring down the price at all.

[@tfortube]

@@Neojhun competition is always good. It will reduce Tesla’s monopoly in EV and make them better if not cheaper.

[@KB-bh9hp]

@@tfortube Tesla doesn't have a monopoly, Ford is rapidly gaining respect in the ev world, as are other legacy brands. Other startups are also joining the fight, like rivian and lucid.

[@kalmmonke5037]

electric car is scam, i wont care until they make it fully recycled or sustainable in some way, while lowering lifetime emissions(building and trashing) not just emissions during driving, all without causing charging energy grid problems if too many people in a area charge. heavier cars also cost more in road maintaience, costing emissions, sustainability issues, tax dollars. heavier car also makes it cost more weight and money for cars to be safe in crash. their should be legal weight limit, investment in e fuels or decent battery tech, and higher speed limits and less changes in speed limit, so people can maintain momentum to get most travel speed per emissions and dollars.

[@Neojhun]

@@kalmmonke5037 LOL You liar. A BMW G80 Inline 6 Is 1.7 Tonnes vs a Model 3 at 1.8 Tonnes. A Kia eNiro is 1.8 Tonnes vs Kia 4cyl is 1.6 Tonnes. This is WET because BEVs need Coolant & Transmission Fluid also. Sure it's marginally heavier than I.C.E. but it has negligible effects and does not need to be regulated.

[@misfitdarule]

Thanks Frank For another amazing video. I am however quite surprised that you didn't talk about the NIO et 7 and et 5 and possibly the zhiji L7 and xiaopeng G9 which I.personally think are the better designs in China today. What's also interesting is that you actually show these cars in your video, you just never talked about them. I would love to hear your input on these premium cars. Thank you.

[@Mazokn]

Chinese here, always hated copycat cars since first discovered the Hyundai Sonata that copied Benz front butterfly eyes and jaguar’s rear. Glad to see they’ve evolved with unique and desirable designs nowadays like the new Ionic, but too bad I’ve swear not to buy a Korean car ever years ago. Watching your video got me thinking how European cars are running out of design cues nowadays, for example all BMW models looks rather too similar, to a point non owners can not differentiate models. Comparing Chris Bangle era, E46 3 series, E60 5 series, E63 6 series, E65 7 series which all had a legendary design all round and everyone could recognize easily, the current models since F and G chassis were introduced, they all looked so similar I could not differentiate a 3 series to a 4 or 5 from rear, even when I’m an owner of a f33. I’ve always wondered what you and Chris would think about the current BMW and Benz designs. With your past relationship with Chris, it would be extremely interesting for the whole enthusiast community worldwide to see him on your video for an interview. Millions of views guaranteed. Much appreciated.

[@trstmeimadctr]

I'm not sure about today, but I know that in the late 2010's even Chinese consumers had basically zero trust in Chinese cars, and they were actually something people would look down on you for owning. I'm very interested to know how much that has changed since.

[@thanglian7]

I've seen in another video about a survey that shows Chinese valuing Nio as high as a Mercedes or BMW. Very drastic change.

[@cleve21ful]

The past 5-6 years, China has been shifting to ev vehicles, and it seems that chinese companies are far better making eve vehicles than combustion engine vehicles. Some of them have technological edge in some ev categories, whereas before, they always had to catch up with combustion engines. Nio, BYD, Xpeng, Lynk& Co. are some of the most hyped brands for the ev market. With the exception of Tesla, Chinese consumers are shifting towards local brands than the usual german brands.

[@wilt778]

This channel is a gem.

[@FrankStephensondesign]

Thanks Will! 👍

[@rli6951]

Designing a car is a project, Designing a culture is a process. good to see things progress in the right way.

[@xiaojiang2610]

Legend has it that an intern at Great Wall drew the car in a CAD software in 1 day and his manager sent it in for VP reivew and the whole design got OKed the next day.

[@zcai2672]

When it comes to electronic car designs, i would definitely preferred NIO et-7 over anything Tasla, BWW or Merc has made. If it ever comes to Australia, I would buy it in a heart beat over the others...

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

That was really interesting. I think I'm with you on most of the critique on styling. There are quite a few misses, but don't all countries make design mistakes? They will be known for their winners and ten year on and these are going to be super-futuristic with the technology to match.

[@wangruochuan]

chinese here: oh man, we absolutely hate them copy cat designs. if friends of us buy one of those infamous copy cat cars, they are going to be our jokes on a group meeting and every after meal talk.

[@cy9nvs]

I think a video about china exclusive cars from western brands would also be interesting. Been in china in late 2020 and what caught my attention were some weird looking cars from well known companies I've never seen before like the VW Tayron X.

[@goodial]

car companies tend to adapt their offerings to the various markets they are in. US and Europe have different cars as well (the VW Passat is different in the US or Europe for example), so does the Brazilian market for example (for example the VW Gol, or back then the VW SP2).

[@yourdeal2408]

@@goodial The VW GOL was also sold in China around 2007

[@harddriveYT]

China was basically making GTA vehicles for a while in the beginning lol

[@primeoil4758]

Rockstar should sue roflmao

[@MM-np4md]

There's a lot he hasn't mentioned here, take a look at the changan Uni-T /uni-K and their sedans like the eado for example, the GWM tank 300 (and the others that have escaped my mind at the moment 🤔) haval big dog, haval h9, haval H6, haval jolion, gwm p-series/canon/poer, roewe RX 5 and RX8, MG/LDV T60, D90, and tons more, you can enter a rabbit hole of very decent to very good looking cars, mostly in the segments of non supercar sedans and suvs

[@Sena-yk6mm]

Great analysis! I think the barrier to entry on an auto industry is high. Glad to see BYD success with their own design.

[@jellene4eva]

aside from HongQi, and the Nio, the other car designs gives me the impression of 1 word -- bulky. Even the copycat ones feel like they're gonna roll over if they turn too tight around the corner. like someone wearing an oversized shirt and baggy pants around the knees.

[@lindaoffenbach]

Spot on. Having been over in China over the years for business and projects, it is indeed most fascinating to see the rather rapid progress. Advancements in China are on a super fast lane, almost beyond belief for us Westerners. The Chinese themselves however are still not thinking that highly of their own products. Many of them are still dreaming of owning a Japanese or German car. However, things there do tend to shift quickly. Thank you for your razor-sharp analyses.

[@Tommytumee]

Would like to hear your opinion on Lotus Eletre

[@Isaac862]

This^

[@TVCHLORD]

It’s a Chinese car with a different body

[@sophisticatedthumb5364]

@@TVCHLORD He's talking about the design and so what its a Chinese car China has the most advanced EV batteries anyways

[@TVCHLORD]

@@sophisticatedthumb5364 lotus is selling a rebadged Chinese ev for $100,000

[@sophisticatedthumb5364]

@@TVCHLORD 60%of the cost of a EV goes to the batteries and China has the most advanced batteries I'd buy it over anything from Europe as long as the car was designed in the UK it is a UK car China has great build quality these days

[@FalcoBikes]

One reason for the latest crop of nicer car designs is that major global brands are adopting their family approach (i.e., the CLS looks just like the A class and CLA stretched out a little) and western designers are increasingly finding it difficult to get jobs and opportunities to realize their artistic aspirations. Therefore many of them landed in China. For example, the Lynk & Co cars mentioned in this video are designed by Peter Hordbury who is a vet designer from Ford and Volvo. Of course Chinese designers are getting along with the western colleagues and becoming a force themselves.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

One thing if you wonder why BMW have the awful giant grill on their new most expensive models, look at the most expensive luxury Chinese cars and Mercedes-Benz. Bigger grill indicates more expensive but they created a horrifying monster by not thinking about it's look and just thinking about size.

[@interesting7906]

Great video! I had no clue China had this whole copycat internal market. I never thought about it but I guess they exploited the people that wanted euro designs but didn't have the money. Polish and Russians achieve that by buying totaled cars from the US and fixing them up. They have the absolute best body/restoration shops in the world.

[@yeowtom1788]

100% ture, for the majorlty of Chinese people the idea of owning a private car had only be 'real & achieveable ' for 20 years, and in some less developed regions it only had been 10-15 years they saw pivate cars. So when over 90% of the population will not find a aifference between a ripoff and the real one, it is reasonable to conclude that moral conflicts are hollow compare to making the money. But gladly now a ripoff is getting fewer credits but more condemnation in the Chinese market.

[@Александр911-х6л]

No one in Russia, except for the rich, imports cars from the United States. Because this is a useless exercise if the car is not for collection. The cost of customs payments is very high. Which can easily be compared with the price of the car itself. Cars older than 2007 and below Euro 5 cannot be legalized in the Russian Federation. The cost of spare parts for any car for the US market absolutely does not tolerate competition with European ones. There is also an increased transport tax, since the engine power does not match the tax rates.

[@yourdeal2408]

Mercedes China ship the end of lease Chinese Mercedes to USA to sell as certified second hands ....

[@cosmoray9750]

That's how Japan and S.Korea got started. They were copying European and North American cars in the beginning too.

[@yourdeal2408]

@@cosmoray9750 And USA stole it all from teh Nazis

[@ToreHansen]

I meet a CEO in uganda 5 years ago, not the one I waited to see.... Cool video!

[@acreativename7999]

Just noticed Senna's helmet and one of his cars on your shelf, absolutely legendary driver

[@jrcan74]

Thanks，this topic was very interesting. As I am a Chinese I did not very against Copycat, but I'm force advice speeding up to pass over the copycat period then improve to developing period and then the leading period. For no one was able to know all knowledge by birth, of course there's some talented person, but all of us are from learning time to improve our knowledge then one day to creating some new design, the only copycat we cannot accept or neither agree was forever copycat.

[@PouyaLucky]

Excellent analysis Frank. Back home in Iran the market for Chinese cars is huge and it has been developing over the past 15 years. The Chinese brands are quite in demand and provide a good alternative to European, Korean, and Japanese brands due to the extreme high taxes which can sometime reach around 300% ! What I noticed early on also was the copy-cat style and it's great to see how far they have come along in terms of design. But the major issue currently is the mechanical bits like engine and gearbox which in some cases use old tech from Mitsubishi and other brands. I personally feel within the next 15 years Chinese brands will do the same with their internal combustion, gearbox, and safety in terms of reaching high standards and will start to appeal to more international markets. Much like Hyundai and Kia did for the last decade or so.

[@wilcoblok]

Can't wait to see a design analysis of the new BMW 7 Series!

[@user-bx6lf3pb4v]

The Chinese car industry and their design was strongly limited on the state of their production technology. Even if they had good designers, it was simply not possible to produce something entirely on their own. It’s astonishing and scary how fast the industry developed though, a couple more years and they will produce with the same quality as the other major car producing nations.

[@ristekostadinov2820]

China up until few years ago never let any foreign car company to have 100% stake (1st company was Tesla), they were partnership with local companies and over the years they gained experience. India on the other hand just wanted other car brands to open up factories in India if they don't want to face tariffs (Thailand also had some rules, like the car companies using components from the domestic market). Both countries leveraged their large population/market in some way respectively.

[@kristoffer3000]

Chinese cars are already at the same quality as Western cars, I walked around and sat in a BYD Tang in a showroom here in Norway and I was stunned, it was like being in a Mercedes in terms of quality and I say that as a Mercedes driver.

[@haidongzheng3009]

@@kristoffer3000 Try Nio. They are the best of the Chinese bunch. I’m actually surprised that Frank didn’t talk about Nio’s ES8/6 and ET7, though he did include a few brief slides in the video.

[@kristoffer3000]

@@haidongzheng3009 Sadly not found any here yet, I know we got a few ES8's running around but they're quite rare still.

[@yourdeal2408]

The quality of Chinese cars exceed already the quality of many US and EU brands

[@Schmitzelhaus]

10:10 Tell me that isn´t basically a Mclaren. But that BYD Han definitly has something going for it, looks nice!

[@catinusz.4741]

It strikes me more of the Renault RS01

[@fartloudYT]

the worst part is not that the chinese are making the copycat cars, it is that the western variants already feel like chinefied clones. like seriously, porsche macan - what is it exactly? just a bloated bland mess. same case with most SUVs these days. basically poor generic design from well established manifacturers is making equally uninspired chinese designs look good.

[@anthonywalker6168]

I don’t think the North American automotive industry can survive a market flood of cheap, industry standard quality Chinese vehicles, without a change in business model. They will have to shift towards renting out their cars for very low prices. Selling “mobility contracts” through long term rentals will become the norm.

[@ArChi285]

Objective. No bias at all. Kudos.

[@niklaswejedal463]

I often get the feeling, when seeing reviews on new (electric) cars from China, that they have surpassed all the Japanese car companies by 10-15 years by now. There seem to be nothing that is impossible and no lag in the development - just "full steam ahead", whereas the Japanese seem to be somehow caught in the past, when they where leading the way - no super innovative new cars, only safe bets and they seem to be unsure on how to go forward with the electrification...

[@MMLL369]

Unfortunately, when there's a big player like Toyota which has an anti-electric CEO, it would definitely slows down the industry.

[@stevess7777]

@@MMLL369 Who says electric is the future though? Hybrids and a transition to hydrogen is much better for the current infrastructure we have built around cars.

[@MMLL369]

@@stevess7777 What you need to understand is, its not always about advancement of technologies alone but, involving geopolitics, greedy corporations and voracious financial institutions. Hydrogen powered combustion engine was invented over 200 years ago and failed simply due to its inefficiency and technologies at the time. Jumping closer on the timeline, a Chinese-Pilipino farmer with science background has successfully converted his two stroke engine on his tractor into hydrogen-powered in the mid 70s, then what? The story was buried so deep hardly anyone heard of and no one would be surprised because there's something very powerful that has been controlling the world for almost 50 years called Petrodollar. You should probably know oil companies would do whatever it takes to defend their revenues. The good news is, after much calculations, the oil companies find that they will still profit from EVs, as gas powered power plants is the second major source of power, meaning all they need to do is to restructure the current distribution network and products, from petrol/diesel to gas, retail outlets to bulk orders to power plants. The bad news is, most of us are just lying to ourselves on doing a great job saving the planet by employing EVs with "zero emission", the truth is, it merely transforming the concentration of emission to where the power plants are located. It could also ameliorate to higher emission per capita because people thought EVs are greener. Can you imagine what oil companies would do to suppress hydrogen powered engines to become the major trend?

[@stevess7777]

@@MMLL369 Very good points you bring up, many of which I agree with. It's easy to look at things and try to take an approach at face value, but you explained why that's not the case. Such a shame we can't really work together for the most efficient technologies, huh?

[@MMLL369]

@@stevess7777 We can all start with ourselves by, I would not use the term "conserve" rather, not wasting resources unnecessarily. I too love the idea of hydrogen driven vehicles yet, more than often, this world is not all about you and I the little potato, not in this reality anyways.

[@jamesli2040]

it's down the high level management's thinking, tho many car company in China start looking for fresh design and ideas, still there are company keep that old time business thinking and not to do so, company like these believe they bring the numbers up back in the day with "copycat" strategy then they can do it again. what China's car market become today shows company that knows explore new design and what a car should be in future, is a big turnaround from the 90's, Yet it still needs time to let this type of business thinking to become solid and standard. Chinese car market is a movie been play fast forward, from what it has started to what happen today, give people curiosity of what will happen in the next year, next five years and forward.

[@xmb6793]

i think the old style company would slowly die if they refuse to change. it's the nature of the industry...

[@alanwang7013]

In fact Zotye did not went bankrupt because they made copycats, they went bankrupt because they wanted to stop making them. People in rural China actually love Zotye's copycat products (who doesn't want to look richer if they just spent years of savings on a vehicle?), and Zotye became too much relied on these groups of consumers. When they stopped making copycats and used the money they earned from those copycats to actually make some vehicles original of their own (which I definately won't call them ugly, neither were them necessarily bad especially for the price tags Zotye put on them), these people who used to buy Zotye cars found new Zotyes can no longer let them to pretend they just bought an expansive car, so that they just turned their interest to the used car market for alternatives. Zotye was one of the first private companies in the Chinese car industry, which had little government connection. Despite the fact it's simply wrong copying others' work, I really hope it is not the last time private economy can compete with the government controlled heavy industries.

[@martinwagnert]

You talk about the Lynk & Co 03 model. Lynk & Co is car company founded in Sweden and they have their HQ (with designers) in Gothenburg, Sweden. But they are owned by Geely Automobile Holdings. Same as Volvo and Polestar. Do you see Volvo and Polestar as Chinese car companies or Swedish?

[@ailrasyid1029]

Can't wait your review about Lotus Eletre Design

[@HandlewithcareVibes]

1:43 you can clearly see the bonnet rising a bit

[@miketyson8565]

When something becomes popular then I think everybody will copy.

[@maxnex7676]

I liked the Ora Punk Cat, would buy it in a heartbeat if sold in Europe. Thank you for the video.

[@promiseye4974]

Ora cat is actually selling in the UK

[@maxnex7676]

@@promiseye4974 Thanks, I saw that so hopefully the Punk Cat will also be imported for sale.

[@jensgronning4436]

The first suv looks like a Honda Pilot front facia on a BMW X5

[@ergwehgr]

Part 2? You are a big inspiration to upcoming Chinese designers

[@Ave_z]

I think the Lynn & Co 03+ looks like a car with kia stinger top headlights, a dodge charger body, and the dodge durango lights below the upper lights.

[@TenFalconsMusic]

The main problem being: When they break or need maintenance/servicing, you're out of luck unless you can afford to send it back to China to be worked on.

[@dct124]

Frank do you mind creating a video about car doors. Specifically about Scissor doors, butterfly doors, gullwing, dihedral, etc. Also why a designer uses them, production, concept, supercar vs economy car etc

[@Gdank72]

Hi Frank, have you seen the new MG EV 4 ? It's starting to take the UK by storm ... compact, cheep, good looking ... even striking at some angles.

[@zodiacfml]

sad that the latest Chinese car designs aren't much covered here. They do still copy but now it is a mishmash EU, Japan, US car designs. It will work for most car buyers but a person with an eye on cars would easily spot it. However, times right now is not about car exterior designs but to simply get an EV.

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

Mecha dragon looks like a rebodied Chrysler 300 with 350z headlights. You should talk about the nightmare battery replacement situation with the EP9.

[@e-enginemagazin2522]

Just stumbled across this report. Incredibly interesting and good research. The Chinese are just about to bring more pleasing shapes to the market than the classic OEMs. But maybe it's because we have an old-fashioned sense of form, especially with electric vehicles ...

[@riaz8783]

We definitely need cars like the Wuling Mini EV shipping worldwide.

[@riaz8783]

@@moa-wg3bo Dacia's score terribly for safety, so I don't get why that'd be better. Either way people are already driving things like the Citroen Ami or motorbikes. Even if it was more expensive than the Sandero, you make your money back on running costs.

[@FBISHOJI]

For small country yes

[@Schuler789]

Chinese design has improved LEAPS and BOUNDS

[@sheldon.1003]

The ORA PUNK CAT is what an actual modern VW beetle should look like ... love the retro styling!

[@AlektronPrime]

Ora Copy Cat - sorry, couldn’t resist 😁 Great video, as always, thanks for the hard work you put in for us.

[@Darkmatter321]

I find the Chinese cars to be the most exciting thing happening right now, if not for anything, but the fact that they are just starting out and are making huge progress.

[@wyskass861]

Those 3 Hongxi models are quite nice looking and relatively original. I personally like that retro one, which makes me think of old communist leader cars, or old time mafia.

[@a.i.n.8476]

Chinese cars have been boosted by Western/European technology and design, and by take-over Western brands. I remember the cars that were refused entry to the European market because they were labeled as very unsafe.

[@adityarajdev1]

Really nice video Frank. :) Its good to see how Chinese Market has evolved over the last 2 decades. Well done Frank cant wait for another cuppa with you next time you are in London.

[@jamesengland7461]

Thank you for all your insights and observations. It is fascinating to see the maturation of Chinese car design.

[@Retroscoop]

Except for the BYD Han, I didn't see anything that led to me imitating Kate Bush, when she sang... Wow-oh-wow-ooh-WOOOOW, un-be-lieeeee-ve-ble.... They'll get there eventually, but for the moment being, nothing that belongs in a car museum that takes its responsabilities extremely serious.

[@mohammadsalah2307]

Great video! However, many vehicles on your video are concept cars…mega dragon, Ora cat…etc. they are weird designed cars so that they did not become mass-production products. 😅 I am looking forward to seeing your comments on some of the hottest sellers which wasn’t shown in your video: NIO ET7, Li one, tank 300, tank 500, and Geely xinyue.😊

[@billxu6556]

Ora’s cat series is actually been mass-produced…

[@yourdeal2408]

All the great wall cars are mass produced and for sale in Chinese market

[@imagonnasah8319]

I'd love for another video dedicated to the Korean car market as well, with Genesis, Hyundai & Kia being what they are today but also how they evolved over time. Also, Geely's got some great designs in the SUV & sedan categories as well imo

[@paranoiddaydreamer4370]

As a Chinese, I would like to point out that only some manufacturers did their job from scratch, while some clearly went the shortcuts. Some copied the exterior styling while more copied the chassis underpinning and suspension as the basis of their new products, with their own interior and exterior styling to cover that they are essentially rebodied clones of existing models from their competitors, even until today. E.g. The BYD Han is based on the Honda Accord with extensive modifications to the body, and a few FWD SUV models from Great Wall, including the Wey VV5, shared the underpinnings and suspension from the Honda CR-V. The once-trending Seres SF5 / Huawei Aito M5, being an EV with a gasoline range-extender, had the suspension cloned from the Audi Q5. The Beijing BJ80 is a wild mashup of a Mitsubishi Pajero Sport's ladder chassis and 4WD system, with an authentic SAAB B235 engine and a body resembling the Mercedes-Benz Gelandwagen. As a Chinese gearhead, I'd have to say this is simply pathetic. It surely isn't easy to create new products from scratch, but it might be even harder to cover the traces from the original with new styling as there were simply more limitations when it comes to design. Luckily we did have many car brands that are really designing cars from scratch, namely FAW (Hongqi), GAC (Trumpchi) and Geely / Lynk & Co, and honestly, they are doing their job just right. I believe that there will be more fascinating, exciting and diverse Chinese cars in the coming future. No one would ever think Hyundai and Kia would ever become this successful in the 80s. Guess what? The Koreans made it. The Chinese automotive industry today is just like the South Koreans in the late 90s to the early 2000s, and we'll just wait for the show.

[@Risk0s]

interesting insights! i agree, i believe the chinese auto industry could make the same development as south korea did. i live in germany and see a lot of hyundais on the streets, they dont just look great and innovative but are also great products from a technical standpoint. if somebody told me this 10 years ago i wouldnt have believed them...

[@paranoiddaydreamer4370]

@@Risk0s One interesting fact: The evolution of both the South Korean and Chinese automotive industries relied on Mitsubishi's technologies, but Mitsubishi is failing by now. Some of the Kia cars and most Hyundai cars between the late 80s and the early 2010s were either based on existing Mitsubishi models or used Mitsubishi's engines and transmission at least. E.g. The Hyundai Galloper is a redesigned Mitsubishi Pajero / Montero off-roader. Mitsubishi also produced engines in China in two joint-venture companies with two Chinese aircraft-building firms, SAME and DAE, and these two companies supplied most, if not all engines that powered numerous copycat and indigenous car models between the early 2000s to the mid 2010s. Threee copycat models that Frank mentioned in his video, the Shuanghuan SCEO, Zotye SR9 and Land Wind X7, were all powered by Mitsubishi engines. The SCEO used a Mitsubishi Sirius 4G64 2.4-liter naturally aspirated inline-4 while the SR9 and X7 used a turbocharged Sirius 4G63 2.0-liter unit. So, in some way, Mitsubishi is like the old grandma of many Chinese car builders.

[@binong7366]

BYD Han is said to be based on the chassis of 7th gen Camry, other than that of Accord. First gen of (modern) Hongqi and Trumpchi cars are all based on foreign chassis and platforms, but yes it's a good news that these two companies are now building cars from scratch.

[@paranoiddaydreamer4370]

@@binong7366 You might be correct about the Han, and yes Hongqi and Trumpchi are doing better now.

[@glorious_help]

Funny thing NIO and Hongki are designed in Munich and Turin respectively

[@carlinhos9090]

top quality and chinese, is two words that is impossible to be togheter

[@antoniodbz5850]

11:00 NO! This looks like BMW Series 7, 90% copy

[@yourdeal2408]

1 The biggest change in Chinese car design came after President XI openly shamed Chinese car manufactures for being copy cats 2 Zotye is NOT bankrupt they still excist and selling cars and SUV 3 The reason that the Ora and the other Great Wall cars looking like VW and Porsche is because the designer is a ex Porsche designer

[@benho1237]

There's a fact before you say 'copycat', in the early years, Chinese automobile manufacturing companies actually bought the production rights of those cars, what they bought was the original cars' past models, the main purpose is to speed up production, instead of going through a brand new RND phase, making new molds, etc. so they bought the production rights, made some small changes not be 100% the same, since that was the terms and conditions from the contract of the original car companies that they bought the rights from.

my mom had a lifan 320, as a company car. they sold it in brazil for a while. surprisingly not that bad, price and market options considered.

[@B4R0N.]

I've found chinese cars to be really fascinating. Lately they've really started to come inti their own and become something unique. Heck, when I look at vehicles like the Hongqi E-HS9 or the nio ET7, which I find to be arguably more desirable than many European or American offerings, I can't help but think it's only a matter of time before they take over.

[@kiddhkane]

People like you are the reason anyone believes in the paper tiger. The best way to understand how crappy chinese technology is, is to own anything chinese for more than a month.

[@ASK-ko9qx]

@@kiddhkane I have owned for more than year. What are you talking about ?

[@randomname931]

the ora cat looks pretty original IMO. yes, it's got porsche looking head lights on a beetle looking body. we're getting to the point where a body on 4 wheels is going to be difficult to design without looking like something else if you don't want it to be atrocious looking.

[@yitezeng1035]

Most of Chinese people hate those copycats as well. Most of the brand doing that without thinking to step out have gone bankruptcy.

[@Shamman_komanch]

9:08 Nothing new here. This is just a Porsche Taycan that fell on a Hellcat from a great height. Altho it doesn't look that bad gotta admit.

[@agungsedayu6219]

breakdown the new lotus eletre design, i really like your content 👍🙏