The World Is Not What We See, It Is the Way We See

[@jonmustang]

As per the gentleman's question @5:27 I have played around with ways to "break" the awareness from the misinterpretation that sight and mind produce. A bit of a tantric approach... in brief, I blur my vision and stare in any direction... then whatever is in my field of vision, instead of doing what the mind usually does and "naming the object" I instead go about asking myself if I can view it in different ways. So instead of naming the objects in my field of vision, I ask my mind to, let's say, look for all the yellows in my field of vision. Do that for a minute or so and see what that's like... then the greens. Then the blues. Just letting my mind pick them out. Then I reset by closing my eyes and opening them again. This time, again slightly blurred, I ask my mind to pick out the negative spaces. Look between the appearance of object to the space between objects. Don't the spaces between the objects also make shapes? What are those shapes? Another reset, then another tantric experiment... asking my perception to look for the lights and shadows... or the textures and surfaces... or moving and unmoving... basically retraining my mind to look at things not as objects but rather as phenomenon of light. Each time, I reset the experiment by closing my eyes and then opening them with a slight blur and a new "task" of re-perception. Finally, at the end, I open my eyes as wide as possible and look everywhere (without mentally naming objects) --- it can be quite nice!

[@Teller3448]

Eyesight doesn't lie. Can you see your mind?

[@steveflorida8699]

You just described what 🎨 artistic painters do when looking at their canvas creation.

[@scubacabra]

“Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.” - Dōgen this is the same thing articulated differently

[@Thomas_Geist]

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

[@skoog5600]

Why not just live your life and stop naming what is already there? Stop searching? Stop listening to this kind of stuff. He’s simply making money off people. You know that don’t you?

[@squamish4244]

@@skoog5600 He's helping a lot of people, myself included. He's making money, because we live in a capitalist society where everything costs money, yet we bizarrely judge spiritual teachers separately as if they should exist in a vacuum outside of the money economy - but only what he needs to keep teaching :)

[@deebrown7479]

Allen, unfortunately for you and most people, because of not listening and searching for truth, our world is lacking an understanding of existence. Let go of our prejudices , open our minds to the truth, our times demand it of us.

[@K4113B4113]

What is the meaning of this quote?

[@simonjones6128]

Yep we are hypnotised by our senses so much we no longer see the simple beingness of reality

[@laineymckenzie660]

it's called programming .

[@Teller3448]

Your body and its senses are part of the physical world...which is supposed to be an illusion. How can you be hypnotized by something that doesnt exist?

[@steveflorida8699]

@@Teller3448 the temporary material environment is not an illusion, it is a lower existence. However, it is a life learning school for us human minds.

[@wbaiey0]

🎉

[@simonhitchenk9]

As ever Rupert explains with great clarity a subject that almost defies words

[@savesoil3133]

Have you heard of the Save Soil movement before?🌏🌍🌎🧘‍♀️🌿

[@chriswilliams1096]

Haha! "almost" hardly covers it.

[@jillianfleer4039]

Absolutely the most perfect and beautiful answer and introspection I’ve ever heard!

[@cristianocaruso8677]

»The illusion remains, it's the ignorance that goes.« A seemingly simple sentence like that can hold so much wisdom. Love it.

[@steveflorida8699]

Then what truths replaced the illusion?

[@santhoshgopinath816]

@@steveflorida8699 . Greetings. Nowadays the word Illusion is much less used because people define it as seeing something which is not there, and there is the argument that how can you deny what you sense. So Advaita teachers of today use the word Appearance / Manifestation to bring out the original sanskrit word rather than Illusion. Your Q, comes from this position probably as a need is felt for a truth to replace an illusion. What really happens is that nothing replaces nothing in your senses and superficial inference. But there is a change in understanding. A simple example from primary school science and everyday experience might suffice here. Look around and what do you see? This laptop screen, keyboard, mouse, table, chair, wall, curtains, coffee mug… So many “truths” appearing in front of you - you cant seem to deny it, you actually see it. Yet what are you Looking At? You are Looking At the same electrons, protons, neutrons, and you see the million different manifestations. Is what you see anything like what you are looking at? After the age of 10 in science class, have you started seeing electrons, protons and neutrons in their places? No. You have a new understanding of truth, but the appearances continue, which enabled you and me to type out these words. Now drill down further into these subatomic particles to neutrinos, WIMPS, photons and still further, and you begin to conclude there has to be an ontological primitive, which is the Reality from which the appearances manifest. It is not that the truth is one thing in one place and the appearance is another thing in another place. The appearance can be seen only if there is the truth to project it, and the appearance can be seen only in the same place where the truth is. .

[@Andy_Anas]

@@steveflorida8699 everything IS the one same thing made OF the one same thing. Thoughts, consciousness, matter, everything. There is one IT.

[@innerlight617]

6.40.RS:'"what changes is the interpretation not the appearance.''"Crystal,clear!

[@Anna-ej3fy]

„See through the appearance“ - great words❤️

[@mauriceforget7869]

Your description of what we perceive of the world is helping, and any help is appreciated. Tank you.

[@natureisallpowerful]

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are " Anais nin.

[@ayeam5822]

Yes, the ILLUSION remains, we must breakdown the DELUSION so that we may ENJOY the illusion. With practice you may arrive at the discovery that YOU are actually the MAGICIAN to ALL illusion. 🙏

[@ayeam5822]

​@@funjtime765 if perceived that way........but OTHER than images and ideas that THOUGHT attaches to: there IS no SELF that any label (Limit) can lay CLAIM to. YOU vibrate Love and Light eternally........KNOW this exclusively for only 3 days and observe. 🙏

[@ayeam5822]

KNOW simply your BE-ing....... NOT your STORY, your being. Describe THAT one, what label CAN you place on THAT one? if you can place a label on THAT one..... enquire as to WHO the one IS that places the label.....enquire and enquire again, its the only way to arrive at the realization that the KEY to the prison of suffering that has been created by your-SELF, is in YOUR pocket. 🙏

[@DualisticUnity]

There is nothing wrong with having this discussion with some laughter and joy involved. It's not as serious as one's ego might want to make it.

[@lilithschwarzermond7342]

Excellent. Thank you Rupert.

[@mindfulkayaker7737]

As always this short video clip of Rupert is so clarifying. The Yogui attain realization through the abstraction from sense organs. The Jani attain realization through understanding. After humanity learnt that the earth is round we continued seeing it flat but the understanding changed the world perception in 360 degrees

[@Teller3448]

The eyes that see the world are themselves part of the physical world!

[@GeertMeertens]

Were they in any dream you ever had while sleeping? Are they in the dream called life?

[@Teller3448]

@@GeertMeertens Sleeping dreams are totally unlike the waking world...which is not a dream. This is easy for you to prove to yourself.

[@santhoshgopinath816]

A good video. Nowadays the word Illusion is much less used because people define it as seeing something which is not there, and there is the argument that how can you deny what you sense. So Advaita teachers of today use the word Appearance / Manifestation to bring out the original sanskrit word rather than Illusion. Advaita (non Dualism / Monism) has this classic simile of snake and rope to bring out how reality is the background template for Appearance. Man walks down a road in the twilight and sees a snake on the ground. He jumps back in alarm as a first reaction. Then he takes a closer look by shining a light on it. He sees that it is not a snake, but a rope, there was no need for the alarm. At first look, the snake was very real for the person looking at it, he is not some foolish person to jump back seeing a rope. He saw a snake because the rope appeared as a snake to him. The appearance was very real at the time of the appearance. Why did it appear as snake ? Because of Ignorance. Ignorance about what ? Ignorance about the rope. Was there nothing there? NOT AT ALL ! There was definitely something there. Without the rope being there, there is no question of the man seeing a snake there. The rope is a pre requisite for the man to see a snake in its place. The rope caused the appearance of snake. In two ways - by providing the material rope as also being the subject of the ignorance. Was the snake created ? No!. There is no snake, so no question of creation. So the "cause" word mentioned here is not to say created, but to say cause of appearance. The rope is both the material cause and the efficient cause in this "causation" of appearance. It is not that the rope is one thing in one place and the snake is another thing in another place. The snake can be seen only if there is a rope and the snake can be seen only in the same place where the rope actually is. Namaste ! .

[@raquelwebb13]

In truth nothing changes is just the inner shift and seeing becomes true seeing, hearing true hearing, etcétera, etcétera.

[@minnawadhwa1832]

The Ultimate interpretation, a non dual advatian seeks... I seek.. thank you Rupert.. regards

[@Andy_Anas]

It's not an 'illusion'. It is what it is and we experience reality through certain apparatus. The finite mind, the localised viewpoint imposes thought and we create our own boundaries. Nothing is hidden, no knowledge is secret we have thousands of years of literature, philosophy and thought handed down since the beginning. Rupert uses the right word, ignorance.

[@dr.susheelkhemariya8966]

Thanks gretitude Dhanyawad ji thanks

[@I-Am-Aware]

Another great presentation--thank you, Rupert. With regard to eyesight, I have found directly, however, that the quality of some apparent objects has changed. This is not always the case, but there is a dream-like quality to the world that is now largely my prevalent experience; except in the case of persons such as family members or friends long known.

[@tammylewis9324]

I find lately that the world does seem dreamlike. It feels very much that I am disconnected to this density when I go for a walk. It was a little scary at first but helps me to practice/ feel trust at the same time.

[@gwenelbro3719]

We don't see the world as it really is, we see is we are in our contracted state.

[@softvision3000]

Wonderfully said, wonderfully spoken. Thank you so much! 🙏🏼♥️

[@lilithschwarzermond7342]

"What we see does not change. The way we see changes." I love it.

[@steveflorida8699]

Then our perception and greater understanding of what we see has progressed.

[@lakshmijayasekera6695]

Beautifully explained . Thanks Rupert 😊 🙏

[@Elazar40]

How we are able to look, will determine what we are able to see.

[@elinope4745]

I am a waterfall made of the water in the air. Everything is one thing. I am as I am.

[@kinw2436]

Thank you Rupert and students for sharing exchanges on KZbin. You have enabled me to subscribe from Chicago Illinois USA

[@kristianlennerth7434]

Thank you ❤️🙏

[@zillamir8624]

Wow beautiful 🦋❤️

[@malabuha]

The silver lining of your entire life experiences, ultimately is, nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from the being (that's you) upon its awakening from the dream, whether you now get it or not. It's okay. It doesn't require you to do anything at all in that regard. Other than that, it's quite confusing and frustrating. But that's life, isn't it

[@steveflorida8699]

Experiences, achievements and goals can, and are added to One's life. And searching for the source of Life, will give one a greater purpose of living. The Why of Life.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

helps to clarify what is seen, before informing the way to see it

[@antoniocorbachomatthes1629]

If many more people in the world would understand this....

[@simonhitchenk9]

Oh yes 🙏

[@GeertMeertens]

Do You understand it? Or are you still dreaming of other people?

[@nocosa]

They don't understand but still they are that. Interesting thing!

[@VivekKumar-cr1nr]

no one can understand what cant be understood. not me not you no one.

[@likebleman]

Very well explained .

[@blackmoon-mk4mu]

The illusion seems so real....

[@Teller3448]

Thats because it is real. There is no evidence of illusion.

[@eziLoreno]

The eyes only see what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

[@KREN12623]

♥️ Thank you ♥️

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

there is an objective reality of what is seen, and a subjective reality the way it is seen; making a statement about the objective reality is not a statement about subjective reality

[@tariburgos]

Bravo!!🧡⚡🌟

[@squamish4244]

"In the emptiness, one perceives forms; in the forms, one perceives emptiness."

[@Teller3448]

Forms are not empty...they are merely composites.

[@steveflorida8699]

Living intelligence is more than molecular forms. Therefore, Life is more than "empty forms".

[@henrikpetersson3666]

I love Spira but one thing he is not right about here - and that is that Buddha (or whoever) if being here would see the exact same thing. No one is seeing the same thing - because our minds are completely different. Seeing with our mind is seeing through the filter of past experiences, personal preferences and associations that all together creates the unique visual experience. But, seeing without the filtering of past experiences and personal associations is however possible - and that means seeing with a clear mind as a pure experience free from the seeming separateness. I have seen faces changes before my very eyes as I have let go of the mind filters in the moment of looking at a person. And oh my God, everyone is so beautiful being seen without the judgement of the mind. If everyone were to see the world this way one could say we see the same thing - Beauty.

[@DurgaDas96]

What he speaks of is also found in Advaita Vedanta, a study of which has been helpful to me in understanding Ruperts teaching.

[@karuna6589]

If we learn how to see then we can view without any distortion...

[@chathurangailleperuma1360]

This explained well in Buddhism

[@youarewhatyourelookingfor4496]

I’ve been using self inquiry for many years, but specifically “who sees?” For the last two weeks. Nothing is cracked yet.

[@magnusjonsson7303]

It is both. ☯

[@rasolokaren]

How can we break the illusion? We cannot break the illusion, nor the illusion remains. An illusion is a misleading perception appearing to be real. So, it is not real. So how can we stop something that never started? In the end, there is no illusion.

[@kennyroberts6524]

I think enlightened people ‘see’ with unity consciousness and not like ordinary people.

[@sublimeister9630]

The illusion of sovereign individual organism remains as “I and Thou” but when understanding the oneness of consciousness of all things then who are you? 😊

[@steveflorida8699]

Humans are individual Personalities.

[@harjotmahal8985]

Light leaves the sun, and eight minutes later gets to your body, which absorbs a part of it. The rest bounces off in all directions, and some of it reaches my eye, passing through the lens and forming an inverted picture of you on the screen at the back of my eyeball. This picture sets up chemical changes in a light-sensitive substance there, and these changes disturb the cells (they are tiny living creatures) of which the screen is built. They pass on their agitation to other, very elongated cells; and these, in turn, to cells in a certain region of my brain. It is only when this terminus is reached, and the molecules and atoms and particles of these brain-cells are affected, that I see you or anything else. And the same is true of the other senses; I neither see nor hear nor smell nor taste nor feel anything at all until the converging stimuli actually arrive, after the most drastic changes and delays, at this centre. It is only at this terminus, this moment and place of all arrivals at the Grand Central Station of my Here-Now, that the whole traffic system - what I call my universe - springs into existence. For me, this is the time and place of all creation. From the book, ' On having no head' by Douglas. E. Harding

[@albertobocchi3469]

Unfortunately, because of their disease, there are many persons in the workd that are not able to see, hear and speak. The question is: how can they know themselves if it is impossible for them to observe and hear anything around them ?

[@dougcarson5202]

Although I am only generally familiar with the importance of this particular but quite famous person, I would recommend you look into the story of Helen Keller. She had great insight, while still being deaf, dumb(old-fashioned term for being unable to speak) and blind.

[@ramilamparo1668]

oh. ..OH..! OWWH!!! 😲

[@d.j.7069]

The young man asking the questions looks as puzzled as I remain after Rupert's "explanation". What are we likely to see when we are no longer "ignorant", and can "see through" the opaque reality that our eyes perceive?? What is it?

[@deebrown7479]

For myself, what I see, is a world that is an expression of Ultimate Reality. Some people regard this Ultimate Reality as God Consciousness, however, one may name it whatever you choose. The fact is this dimension that we live in, exists as an expression of true reality. The difference being that our lives on planet earth are just an expression, not the true Reality of Existence. This does not take away from the Wonder of our individuality and the beauty that surrounds us!

[@markrosinski4814]

you will see the world as not real. like in a dream after waking up you realized it was created only by your mind. That which exists is not real(the opaque reality that our eyes perceive) and that which is real does not exist.

[@Teller3448]

What are we likely to see when no longer ignorant??? The same things you see now...because they are not illusions.

[@HardcoreZen]

Rupert's shirts always match the curtain behind him.

[@michaelferguson2344]

Ignorance is not knowing. How do we know? We take time to refocus what we are aimed at. What am I aimed at? I am aimed at nothing, I am the aimer. What is to aim at if I am already this? What is this? This is watching through, all I must do is not look. Be kind ;)

[@havisskumar8530]

Arvaita philosophy is non dual experience of self. The seer and the seen are one and the same ie whatever is without is within ourselves. It only has to be perceived.

[@LifeDeathandStuff]

💚

[@2008stevepod]

This guy is the best

[@MassiveLib]

That's another half truth Rupert. There is no seer, no we seeing...

[@jonathancopeland1014]

He speaks to the level of consciousness coming for the questioner. That same question asked by different ppl would different answers.

[@hermes.trismegistus616]

I love how everyone speaks in riddles but never says. Okay boys and girls, we are this and that and the other and we live this way because of this that and the other

[@Alex722]

You are just awareness deep in your core. That which you are is not conceptual, therefore it can not be explained with words which are thoughts formulated by the human mind. Awareness, consciousness is prior to thought. Any verbal explanation is just a pointer and it can not be the thing itself. For example the word tree. The word is not the thing itself that we call tree. Yet they existed even before humans became a thing on earth 😅 There was no one around to call them “tree”, same goes for everything, even your name.

[@ItApproaches]

Here's an amusing thought, if the eye's are the window to the soul...where the heck's the door? Haha.

[@carlavela7106]

💐🙏

[@allenmorgan4309]

There is an objective world out there that exists independent of how we see it and it is how it is regardless of what we think. Try seeing gravity as not working as see what happens. In truth the world is deluded and confused because people had rather believe a lie than to see the truth.

[@florinim8537]

Traducere in limba romana nu este???

[@TheHmmka]

🍀

[@stewartbrands]

It is disconcerting listening and watching didactic monologues along with occasional tongue flicking . There is the overwhelming sensation of suppressed anxiety which maybe arises from using dualistic analogies to describe oneness. The didactic process is perhaps a consequence of monetising ideas which dualistic analogies support because people like them. The equilateral triangle with vertices on a circle is perhaps the best image that would resolve duality with a oneness. That is why it is the foundation form of matter. It allows for movement or change/time while embodying oneness. A didactic explanation will by definition always originate and be constrained in a dualist model. Is it not true that the homo sapiens brain evolved large and is that not a flaw? It is this flaw which created self awareness is it not? Is it not also a fact that this self awareness flaw makes us inconsistent with the synergistic aspects of the rest of earth's beings? It as if a bird were born with a third wing and must calculate how to fly in a consistent way. This discontinuity is the human condition and will persist. Its management relative to the oneness of everything is forever ongoing. Illusion is a feature of this evolutionary anomaly and anomalies are present within the reality of congruence just as it is impossible to locate the exact location of a point. A glimpse of the oneness is nevertheless still possible with corrected awareness however it is an ongoing effort at every moment. All other lifeforms do not need to expend this extra energy since oneness is most efficient as symbiosis attests to. A dualistic explanation needs one more point or feature to resolve its discontinuity with the whole.

[@gracev4186]

👁👁 I just got out of a deep, steaming Aloe bath and was sitting in the dim steamy chair at the vanity bringing myself into ma as just "feeling". It occurred to me: " Wouldn't I lose something so inextricably blissful if I were deprived of this sensory experience of the "feelers" of my skin, hair and bones? Is it possible that subconsciously , this may be part of the deep seated fear of losing the life. .to death?

[@gracev4186]

.. 'cont...Outside of my body, I could never duplicate the feeling of sunshine on my shoulders, wind in my hair, first taste of chocolate ,union of body with my true love? I am missing my old "limited self" already! 💋 If I am to ascend, please _od ; don't leave me behind!!👣

[@jimosborne2]

Yes!

[@johnnywlittle]

I think Rupert missed the mark on this one by talking around the gentlemen’s question.

[@Teller3448]

Isnt that the only option...if the question is bad?

[@monsterhuntervideos4446]

I don't but this philosophy. I'm fully convinced that there are different consciousness or souls one from another. The idea that there's one reality, therefore every self in that reality aren't really individual selves doesn't logically follow. There's absolutely no reason why you cannot have one reality with individual selves within it. They can even be all interconnected without having to be all really one consciousness. There's absolutely no reason why there couldn't be one ultimate ground of reality and ultimate consciousness (God), and this is all just his creation where he has literally created this reality with very real selves within it. This reality may not be part of ultimate reality, but rather just a creation or expression of it.

[@nocosa]

The mind like to argue and chatter. Realty it's not known through theories but through direct inquiry. At least this is the promise of this path. Reality it's what it remains when every theory is put aside. Only in non duality there is real peace. Not as a belief system of course. Reality its not veiled but self evident. It blossoms in front of you. Never changes and still give birth to God and souls and universes. Love you.

[@bam2385]

This video from Rupert may help clear that kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJrdhaVsbdVlrJo

[@saifsikder]

what i just seeing in this video or anything in it, is a prime example of pure Vegetables in its human form !!

[@mariakutschera3087]

Wir sehen aber Auswirkungen von dem was wir tun oder was geschieht

[@jeanbolduc5818]

You mean there is no violence , war , anti democratic people , racism and haters .... you live in a parallel world mister

[@miar600]

Could you explain.... A person works in a company, the company proposes to cut wages & change the conditions offered radically for the worse. Everyone in the company enters into a panic , caos is installed. ONE remains calm, observes all others around him in a rant ... His interpretation is 100% different of what appears ... he understands or see's the caos but does not feel it.... Yet ... The company gets what it wants. What difference does it make it to him having seen in a completely different way? What changes for him, the way he saw it all, if the consequences where the same for him as all those who saw and felt completely different?? Thank you

[@jonathancopeland1014]

Your interpretation of the worser conditions at ur job would carry a different emotional weight if you were able to see without ignorance. The fact remains. Your response to it would be radically different. Enlightenment brings forth the deepest understanding that everything will be okay, even as we approach death for ourselves and others.

[@miar600]

@@jonathancopeland1014 Not my job. Again... the person carries no weight as described above. The fact remains. He will suffer the same consequences unless he leaves and probably that is the solution and then yes everything will be ok. Those who suffer already, will probably stay & suffer the consequence of their choice. I thought you might add a new perspective but seems not. Thank you anyway for taking the time.

[@waldwassermann]

Freedom of speech does not mean to disrespect others, For all others are verily but GOD in disguise. And the purpose of GOD? The purpose of GOD is LOVE. 1 John. Keep your cool and stay true to the Word Brothers and Sisters. Do not fall. You've got this! 👍

[@Teller3448]

Freedom of speech doesnt exist to protect the speech you agree with.

[@stewartbrands]

You use duality to describe unity. This is inconsistent and partial. A form that is not inconsistent is the equilateral triangle within a circle whereby the vertices of the triad are on the radius of the circle. Explaining reality with dualities forces you into a didactic manner whereby free exchange of ideas is squelched. This is not inconsistent with nature or reality if the model is a queen bee however it is not consistent with the concept or reality of universal oneness. This would require kindness and kindness is an exchange, not a dictation. People do not have to sit on pillows physically above people to illustrate that inconsistency with reality. You describe the illusionary nature of some aspects of mind's energy with respect to the one energy however these descriptions are restricted by the dualistic approach you use. The didactic manner is the only possible outcome of this process. It is true that many people enjoy this simplified format and it is the easiest to monitise.

[@jeanne553]

A crowd full of zombie stares.

[@everitadave]

As The apostles of Jesus said: “ help our disbelief”. More not believing is needed.

[@BeingQuotient]

Do you really believe that more ‘not believing’ is needed?

[@everitadave]

@@BeingQuotient yes, absolutely. Not believing anything is essential to be able to see/perceive the truth of what actually is. Facts vs thoughts about facts.

[@jamuga60]

I thought Justin Langer was up on stage..................dead ringer.

[@DJSTOEK]

😷❤

[@dazknight9326]

Don't belive everything you hear and only half of what you see. If you want peace, seek it, I have no doubt that everyone has it sooner or later in life, the choice is keeping it.

[@misterneckbreaker88]

Look at them lol caught in a trance they are buying this nonsense.

[@gmlgml780]

_"... The World Is Not What We See, It Is the Way We See ..."_ Yeah. What an awful scam. Yes, the world is the way how you see it. Nobody denies that. Just you are not free to choose the way how you will see it. The way how you will see the world is determined in that same world. So the world becomes what you see. So this big revelation, this big salvation cited above is worth a bit less than sh@te.

[@jonmustang]

What the non dualists are pointing towards is not that we (as egos) each get to choose how to see reality. What they are trying to teach is how things would appear if we dropped the illusions that the ego produces. What the teachers often don't explain is that it's impossible to do this from inside the ego's perception. There has to be a glimpse or understanding from outside the egoic bubble in order to understand. That's why the teachings can sometimes be, as you noted, a bit less than sh@te. If a person hasn't had some kind of egoless glimpse, the teachings seem to just create more intellectual mental chatter.

[@gmlgml780]

​@@jonmustang _"... What the non dualists are pointing towards is not that we (as egos) each get to choose how to see reality. What they are trying to teach is how things would appear if we dropped the illusions that the ego produces. What the teachers often don't explain is that it's impossible to do this from inside the ego's perception. There has to be a glimpse or understanding from outside the egoic bubble in order to understand. That's why the teachings can sometimes be, as you noted, a bit less than sh@te. If a person hasn't had some kind of egoless glimpse, the teachings seem to just create more intellectual mental chatter ..."_ Yeah. Exactly. And yes, I do not have a clue about what you mean when you talk about a "glimpse" of the "outside of the egoic bubble" but I do not even care. 'Cause even those, who know (or at least they think that they know) what that means, even they don't want and can't live in that (what is the good word) state. They just go into that state and come out from it talking about it. Like the meaning of this fkng life. Like the solution of all suffering. But they don't want to be in there. 'Cause that's closer to de@th than life. So why the h@ll would we be alive then ? (Not even mentioning, that they cannot give a promptly working way or method to get there to taste it for yourself.) So even if that's not just a fairy tale it still means nothing. What is real in this world is the fkng suffering what all of us have to bear while we are alive. 'Cause we all are just the slaves of this universe.

[@jonmustang]

@@gmlgml780 In many ways, I agree with you. Jung thought that the Eastern approach of withdrawing one's awareness from the senses was psychologically regressive. Like, what is the point of being in a body if not to experience its senses, right? To be alive in a body. To integrate more into one's sense of self rather than to subtract from one's sense of self. That was his argument and it's intriguing. The trouble with that is that, if there is an innermost permanence that is blissful and peaceful, we may risk losing touch with that by protruding our attention constantly outward or getting absorbed in mental chatter. So says the eastern masters. To me, a sweet spot is flow state. When a musician, dancer, worker, lover, athlete (or poet!) is fully immersed in creation, then there is no suffering -- we are fully free in both mind and activity in those moments. Not sitting a pillow, dead inside, refusing the world. We are emergent, brilliant, active, and simultaneously free of any troubling mental sense of "poor me, the suffering person."

[@gmlgml780]

​@@jonmustang _"... In many ways, I agree with you. Jung thought that the Eastern approach of withdrawing one's awareness from the senses was psychologically regressive. Like, what is the point of being in a body if not to experience its senses, right? To be alive in a body. To integrate more into one's sense of self rather than to subtract from one's sense of self. That was his argument and it's intriguing ..."_ Yeah. _"... The trouble with that is that, if there is an innermost permanence that is blissful and peaceful, we may risk losing touch with that by protruding our attention constantly outward or getting absorbed in mental chatter. So says the eastern masters ..."_ Yeah. And all life, all the world all this fkng manifestation is just an accident ? A sc@m ? An error ? From the point where I can see it's good enough to me. Then let us destroy it. Let us turn all existence to nonexistence. Let it be over finally. _"... To me, a sweet spot is flow state. When a musician, dancer, worker, lover, athlete (or poet!) is fully immersed in creation, then there is no suffering -- we are fully free in both mind and activity in those moments. Not sitting a pillow, dead inside, refusing the world. We are emergent, brilliant, active, and simultaneously free of any troubling mental sense of "poor me, the suffering person ..."_ Yeah. The big dream. That's what mankind is trying to achieve continuously through histories, isn't it ? Are we doing it good ? Everybody is dancing, working, loving, singing happily ? Don't make me laugh, Jonathan. We are doomed from the beginning. We are driven to be suffering from our inner core. We cannot get out of it. We are 8 gazillion talking m@nkeys sentenced and waiting to de@th.

[@gmlgml780]

@SIMPLY HUMAN Yeah. First you were talking about basic scientific paradigms. Which we know are models. Not reality. Second you said that we do not know. Cool, we agree. But nothing became better. So accept my congratulation, you can write well about trivial things. And we are still just the slaves of this universe.

[@alejandrosaez1772]

There isn't such thing as a shared, objective reality. "Ramana" wouldn't have exactly the same seeing experience.

[@julesxxx5667]

Jesus is the way. Please tell us about Jesus?

[@anthonykology1728]

seeing is not really believing 😂

[@1776adb]

Man spends so much time attempting to make the simple - complicated.

[@davidwayne9982]

YES-- WE are the creators of our own reality-- with the oNE thing God gave us domininon over-- OUR THOUGHTS...

[@baharam98]

❤