Testing Hebrew Roots on the four restrictions

[@miken8820]

Well spoken! I came across this channel through a search that did with the intention of finding some info to view a 119 video. I found their channel a few weeks ago and have been binging! I am very interested in their teachings and a lot of what they say resonates with me. Then I watch your video and well, it makes a lot of sense too! I am going to continue on my journey of learning and discovery, because I've got a long way to go. I do appreciate your time in making this video, in a way that is not contentious, that suggests an alternate point of view. Maybe it is better to say it is just furthering the discussion as we are all learning and growing. I can see that your channel has other videos that might offer me some insight! Thanks.

[@melissagriffin9043]

Mike, I am on the same journey as you!

[@melissagriffin9043]

As far as the starter pack of commandments, I think it is kind of hypocritical because when a person comes to Christ we don’t expect them to lay every sin. It is impossible! Same as the so called starter pack. 119 teaches salvation through Christ first! He is the only way. Just as when you come to Christ, you will want to lay your sinful nature down because we love him, so the same as keeping the commandments. Not because it is required but because we love HIM.

[@miken8820]

@@melissagriffin9043 How is your journey going?

[@CAT3616G]

This channel deserves more subs and views. KZbin is hiding these vids.

[@elyavbannoura9105]

I agree, Jon!

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Gentlemen! I appreciate your support. Feel free to share my videos and help spread the word if you feel so inclined. Blessings! Rob

[@JustThinkingAboutIt-i5k]

Where and who is telling you somebody believes in a "started pack". Are you using your own words to describe this or theirs?@@TheBiblicalRoots

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@JustThinkingAboutIt-i5k The phrase "starter pack" actually came from a Hebrew Roots friend of mine. RLS

[@JustThinkingAboutIt-i5k]

Ah got you. I know there are some history books that describe this time period. They had no problem worshiping more than one god and that is what they were doing. Those things they were doing were to those other gods, when you put it in context thats not gonna fly with being a believer so it had to go. Starter Pack, that doesn't make much sense to me and it would be a weird list just to pull out of the air and use it as a pattern for not keeping any of the commandments. No chance of that at all.. @@TheBiblicalRoots I tihnk you would agree that you can't be a believer and worship other gods and all the while doing pagan things that are inline with that right? I mean really, thats like saying picking your nose might have been on the list because it grossed them out, no it was a very good reason.

[@DavidRodriguez-hg6kq]

Began watching your videos when my wife and I attended a concert by a Messianic Jew by the name of Joshua Aaron. It was a beautiful concert, but it was held at a church that is involved in the HR movement. First time I had gone to a church like this since I attend an Assemblies of God denomination. Your teaching is very clear.

[@TheBeginningOfWisdom]

Great stuff. I never noticed but what Jesus says about divorce refutes the eternal Torah theory as well. From the beginning it was “not that way”. Which way? The way the Torah says.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Right! Thanks, Andrew. Many Jews believe that the Law of Moses is eternal and has always existed, it just wasn't given until Sinai.But that comment from Jesus is more evidence that's not the case.

[@PimpGanstaPoet]

Wow mind blown 😮 love both your channels

[@miken8820]

@@TheBiblicalRoots I forget the passages, but there are some that suggest the law was always there and known to the prophets from the time of Adam. I will I could remember the passages though.

[@miken8820]

I had never noticed that wording about the divorce that Jesus used either.

[@marriage4life893]

I can see what you're saying, however, the Torah is not deduced to just the case laws of Moses. The Torah starts in Genesis with God. As James says, we only have one Law Giver, and he is eternal. In the instance of divorce and remarriage unto adultery, Christ beautifully points back to God's intent for marriage in Genesis, which is Torah. But I do wonder if proving the Torah to be eternal should be the focus, or the fact that its source is ultimately God, who is eternal? How is it that we can teach pre-existance of Christ from Genesis, but disregard the evidence of an eternal form of law from Genesis? But what's truly interesting is that the passage you've referred to in regards to Moses permitting divorce because of the hardness of heart is very rampant in church. It appears as though many would rather appeal to the Pharisaical interpretation of the case law of Moses over the original intent of marriage for life as Christ affirms from the Torah before Moses was granted allowance to permit divorce. Why? Because their hearts are hard. Actually, the church doesn't agree with Moses. They agree with the Pharisees who granted divorce for any reason, which neither Moses nor Christ affirmed. But I digress. Do you have to find some eternal ordinance to pray in Christ's name in order for it to be valid, or does it's validity come from Him who is eternal? Please be blessed and stay safe out there

[@carmensiekierke3579]

Caleb Hegg ( Messiah Matters ) has said covenants have regulations. Thus, the law written on the heart of New Covenant believers ( Jer. 31:31) must mean the Mosaic Covenant. Caleb's father, Tim Hegg, removed his family from the church and into the First Fruits of Zion when Caleb was only 6 years old. Tim Hegg spilt from FFOZ in 2009 when they started going down the Jewish Kabbalah road. Tim Hegg has a Masters of Divinity and Th.M from Northwest Baptist Seminary in Tacoma , Washington. Torah Resource has Tim Hegg's "Trembling At The Word"....which he wrote against dispensationalism. Perhaps Tim Hegg isn't aware of the members of the Body of Christ who do not believe in dispensationalism? "When was the last time you heard a sermon preached about the evil of ingesting blood? The Church is entirely unconcerned about the four stipulations of the Jerusalem Council even though they occur in the New Testament." The blood restrictions come from the Noahidic Covenant and concern animal sacrifices. Noah was now allowed to eat meat. Leviticus 17: 11 "For the life of the flesh ( animal) is in the blood and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement." Animal blood was a fitting ( albeit imperfect) type of the final sacrifice, whose blood alone actually takes away sins. We are no longer in the age of animal sacrifice. The Jews who insisted the pagan Gentile believers must be circumcised came out of the group associated with James. James is the one who makes the pronouncement at the Jerusalem Council.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Carmen. I didn't know that about Hegg. What did you mean by, "The Jews who insisted the pagan Gentile believers must be circumcised came out of the group associated with James." What group are you referring to?

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@TheBiblicalRoots To clarify: Acts 15: 24 The false teachers, false messengers who claimed they had the authority of James and the Jerusalem Church. The Theopolis Podcast Episode 366 "The Jerusalem Council's Decrees and Timothy Joins Paul...Acts 15-16" Minute mark: 12:36 This is an issue of maintaining control of the Church.

[@micahtattz7587]

When looking at the commands of KEEPING the pesach im so torn because since there is no temple there is also no purification which to me, means that my body is in a perpetual state of uncleanness. So for me im stuck wondering if i can actually KEEP the pesach in these templess times. Or any other feast for that matter. My feasting has turned to weeping for me.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Micah. That is a difficulty felt by many. Since the fall of the Second Temple, it has been impossible to keep Pesach in the way commanded by the Torah. Why would God allow the destruction of the Temple, which brings a situation in which we are physically prevented, through no fault of our own, from being able to keep the mitzvot as He gave them? It is because those mitzvot are no longer required! We are now under the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34) and our feasting does not need to be weeping (Col 2:16-17). Your body no longer requires ritual purification and worship no longer requires a Temple. "So, brothers, we have confidence to use the way into the Holiest Place opened by the blood of Yeshua. He inaugurated it for us as a new and living way through the parokhet, by means of his flesh. We also have a great cohen over God’s household. Therefore, let us approach the Holiest Place with a sincere heart, in the full assurance that comes from trusting - with our hearts sprinkled clean from a bad conscience and our bodies washed with pure water." -Hebrews 10:19-22 (CJB)

[@micahtattz7587]

@@TheBiblicalRoots if this were true im confused as to why Paul kept the feasts in acts and why we will make pilgrimage to the temple upon its resurrection. I have a great desire to keep his torah like our messiah did in just stuck in this place of confusion. Even tithing doesn't exist without the temple so now our levites must work the land. The temple being destroyed is a very heart breaking thing. It literally holds us from doing so much in his name and for his name sake.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@micah macias Hey Micah. The reason Paul and the apostles (and even Yeshua) kept the Torah is because of the unique period in history they lived in, which was a sort of "changeover box" This short video might help: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmrdHWBiLihatE

[@marriage4life893]

In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul says the following: Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Colossians 2:16‭-‬17 These festivals are shadows of things that have future implications. And the best part is that these festivals find their substance and fulfillment in Christ. Paul said theses festivals ARE shadows of things to come, not were and are no more. They are. Meanwhile, the Prophets Isaiah and Zechariah, which Christ said he did not come to abolish but fulfill in Matthew 5:17-20, speak to the future on the festivals. Zechariah 14 prophecies that the families of the nations would come up to Jerusalem year after year to the festival of Tabernacles..... has that happened yet? No. So we definitely have that to look forward to. Also, Isaiah prophesied of people from the nations keeping his covenant and his Sabbath. I agree with the host's use of Hebrews in that we are the temple of God's spirit. Even further in Romans 12, we are to lift up ourselves as living sacrifices. Even David referred to his prayers as incense... Let my prayer be counted as incense before you, and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice! Psalm 141:2 So, you see that the concept was already there in regards to being likened to a temple while a temple was standing. Even Daniel remained as faithful as was possible while living in Babylon. His prayers that took place three times a day was in memorial of the temple sacrifices that used to take place in Jerusalem before exile. So, as you seek to remember these prophetic appointed times, please know that these are memorials that point to the Messiah and his work for our redemption. Paul encouraged believers in 1st Corinthians 5 to keep the festival of Passover by referring to Christ as our Passover Lamb. And John the Immerser also called Christ the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Be blessed and be a blessing But I hear you. There's a long

[@jnastally196]

For starters at 3:00, you state that nothing suggests a starter pack of commands, but that is precisely what God does throughout His Word. God has always had relationship with people before giving commands. God developed relationship with Adam first before He told Adam don't eat in Gen 2:15. Likewise, God developed a relationship with Moses himself and he showed faith in God before being issued any commands at the burning bush. When the Israelites and the mixed multitude left Egypt they left to worship the Lord, meaning they had faith and a relationship with God. Moses statement to Pharaoh is "We do not know what the Lord will require of us so our flocks must go too." The Children of Israel walked with God before Sinai commands were given. The Bible teaches a progression of faith first throughout the Bible before commands are issued. The disciples issued "the starter pack" just like the Bible teaches: relationship first. Notice also that all commands were not issued at Sinai. God taught a few, then as they went through the wilderness they learned what God wanted; God's laws, statues, and judgements. We learn over time. God does not download His commands ever like a zip file, but we learn to walk on the path of right living on small file at a time. You also say "Nothing in the New Testament suggests it," may I remind you from where you are reading: it's Acts--the beginning of the New Testament church at Jerusalem Council. That's kind of obvious there, but it seemed necessary to point it out. At 6:00 you say that the law of Moses was never God's standard. That is blatant heresy. Please reevaluate your position on this. At 7:00 you say that the law of divorce was given as a compromise. Yet God himself is a divorcee. God divorced Israel. Why did He divorce them? For adultery aka idolatry. The very thing the disciples are discussing at Jerusalem Council to avoid. Secondarily, the whole reason Jesus died was so that God's law could be fulfilled. Jesus is the perfect Law keeper. He is still keeping the law for us in Heaven as our great high priest as Hebrews says, it has been transferred to Him. When He returns, we will have The Marriage Supper of the Lamb based on what authority? It will be based on the law. Unless the bridegroom dies the Bride cannot remarry as Paul teaches. At 9:00, you say that God's standard of righteousness and goodness will never grow old, it will never fade away. You are correct. Deuteronomy 31:26 tells us the the Book of the Law is inside the Ark as a witness against us. That's why Jesus is our Great Redeemer. His blood covers us so we can stand before the Father holy and righteousness and clean. You see, God's law has not been done away with. If it was, by what standards would God judge the Earth? By what standard would you be made the Bride of Christ? By what standard would you gain entry to the kingdom? It is by His righteousness law! His law gives mercy for his people. Paul did not pull those ideas out of thin air. He was not making up another Gospel. He knew the principles in the Law applied to the Messiah. Read Isaiah. This I know: none of the Fall feast days have been fulfilled. So we can know right away that the entirty of the law is not fulfilled. The Spring feasts have been fulfilled, but we wait with joyful anticipation for the "latter rain." The fall feasts are evidence of promises yet to come in the law. Also, there is not universal peace on earth, which is also promised. There are many things we still look for as Christians "as it is written" as Christ would say. At 10:00 you begin making a Marcian-like apology for the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New. Be careful, Brother! By your argument at 11:00 we could say that fornication is just fine with God. It's one of the 4. Or drinking blood. It's also one of the 4. Like you explained God's standard is high. Let's not teach people that its okay to be low living. You began well by talking about sanctification, which is what the whole process of learning commands over time is all about, one file at a time. Lord bless you as we all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Awesome, J! Thanks for your in-depth comments.

[@markfrench2980]

More, and longer guitar riffs please!

[@Justjewels8436]

What version of the bible did you use for this? I like it its very clear

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks for watching! I believe I used both the CSB or ESV translations for this video.

[@Hezron389]

This Hebrew roots issue is consuming my peace! I just don’t understand how you can read Galatians, Hebrews and the other epistles and think we are under the law. It’s bothering me a lot. Every time I hear of it I run back to the Scriptures and can’t see what they’re saying. It’s scary because people are believing this !! 🥵

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

I hear you, Andrew! It can be frustrating but I would encourage you not to lose your peace over it. We serve a big God! He is in control. Our job is simply to do our best to share the truth, and trust God with the outcome. Blessings!

[@troycmoore1186]

Sorry your peace is not so calm, but maybe it was a false peace. I would guess that you are reading Galatians and Hebrews wrong. Instead, read what John wrote: "3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." Question: If Jesus himself gave no commandmentS during his ministry, could John be referring to the commandments that Jesus wrote on Mt Sinai and gave to Israel, as the Second Person of the Triune God? [e-mail]

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@troycmoore1186 Hey Troy! Thanks for watching. My answer to your question would be that Jesus did give commandments during His ministry.

[@Hezron389]

@@troycmoore1186 Are you implying Jesus gave literally NO commandments during His ministry ?

[@Hezron389]

@@troycmoore1186 Why on earth would even suggest it was a false peace ? Why don’t you have the courage to just tell me I’m a false convert ?

[@thewadester]

1. His name is Jesus, not Joshua. 2. Christ does not “fill the gap” to make us holy. He IS our righteousness! 💯 We don’t get “part way” there in our own righteousness. 3. The Gospel for today is 1 COR 15:14.

[@JustThinkingAboutIt-i5k]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ (The one he taught) was the Torah. Prove me wrong. Once upon a time I met a man from China his name was 'Wai'. Your not gonna believe what his name was in English. (Wai) What's the issue here? Why do you have a problem with calling people by their native name? What do you think his mother called him? lol..it wasn't Joshua. There are two Gospels. The Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Gospel(The one him and his disciples taught) about Jesus Christ. I happen to believe in both, which one do you believe in? Further more, Jesus (I don't have a problem saying that name) told him after the resurrection, go to the nations and teach them what I taught you. You might want to do a review of what exactly he taught. I've heard everything from Jesus was hiding the Gospel to Rob's view, none of it is consistent. When you find the truth, it will all be consistent and make sense.

[@marriage4life893]

How do you think the church in general is doing today in regards to observing the four prohibitions of Acts 15? Thanks and blessings

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

That's an interesting question, M4L. Were those four restrictions given as commandments to all Christians at all times? Or were they given specifically to the new Gentile believers at that time to promote peace and unity?

[@marriage4life893]

@@TheBiblicalRoots I appreciate the question, but what is your answer to my original question?

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@marriage4life893 Happy Thanksgiving, M4L! I guess the answer to your question depends on the answer to my question. As for me, I don’t believe those four restrictions were given as commandments to Christians at all times, but rather to the early generation of Gentile Christians to foster unity with their Jewish brothers and sisters in Christ. At least, I don’t see the three food restrictions applying to Christians today, because they are not repeated elsewhere in the New Testament. (In fact, the opposite is taught regarding food.) However the restriction regarding sexual immorality certainly applies. And on that front, in my opinion, the modern church is not doing very well. How do _you_ think the church in general is doing today in regards to observing those four prohibitions?

[@TRINITYTVint]

Is your books available in Germany? Do you need someone who translate your book in Italian, German and Portuguese?

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Hello, Trinity! I'm actually not sure if the book is available in Germany. If so, it would be via Amazon. As far as translations, the language we are looking at right now is Spanish; we're getting a lot of interest from Spanish speakers. But if you provide translation services, please email me through my website. rlsolberg.com/contact/ Thanks! Rob

[@yakovmatityahu]

Redemption of the Living can be accomplished by only the life of other...just as in old covenant it was through the life of a lamb every year...but now once and for all through the life of Yeshua Ha Maschiach...Life can only be sustained through the life of other.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Yakov!

[@yakovmatityahu]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Welcome 😊

[@melissagriffin9043]

So how does “Come as you are” with Christianity different than the “Starter Pack?” This isn’t a sarcastic question, but a real one. We are taught to accept all people and when they come to Jesus, not to put all of these rules on them. It should be a gradual conversion. This is because it is too overwhelming for anyone to come to Jesus that doesn’t know him and expect them to lay down every sin. I think 119 ministries teaches the same. They teach that salvation through Jesus Christ first. The rest to follow. They do not teach you that you HAVE to keep the Mosaic Law but that you should. Let me ask you? Was Jesus a Christian or Jewish?

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

That's a great question Melissa. "Starter pack" means that you are only required to follow a small set of laws when you first join God's family. And then you will learn to keep more laws over time. “Come as you are,” by contrast, is not about keeping laws. It means that you do not have to clean up your act or do anything special before God will accept you into His family. All that is required is faith. But, of course, God loves us too much to leave us as we are. He will lead us through the process of sanctification as we learn to walk with Him. But it's not about follow laws, but following Jesus. You're right that 119 ministries teaches that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ, which is great. But then they define "faith" as walking in obedience to the Torah. Which is not at all how the Bible defines faith. And they further teach that those who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath, or the kosher food laws, or the feasts are walking in sin and lawless. Does that sound like we don't HAVE to keep the Law of Moses? As far as your last question, a "Christian" is someone who follows Christ. So, no, Jesus isn't a Christ-follower, He is Christ! Blessings, Rob

[@donwhitt9899]

So these 4 restrictions are given to the gentiles so they won't offend the Jews. I can see idolatry, or eating meat with blood in it, or just drinking blood straight might offend Jews, but what about fornication? Is that the only reason they were told not to commit that, so they wouldn't offend the Jews? Seems to me I read somewhere that committing fornication will keep you out of the kingdom of God. That would be a good reason one would not want to commit fornication. 1 Corinthians 6:9

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks for watching, Don. That's a great point. Perhaps these four restrictions were given because they would not have been obvious or well-known to the Gentiles. The Jews were known for their high moral code, so the Gentiles would not have needed instruction about moral matters such as fornication, adultery, thievery, extortion, etc. But they may not have realized that eating meat with blood in it could offend their Jewish brothers and sisters.

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Your answer to Don Whitt is insufficient. My explanation of v21 (in Acts 15) is superior. Why would scripture even record something like "how to not offend your Jewish friends." It would more likely have something like "how not to offend Almighty God" -- and that is the reason for James' letter, that these new Gentile converts start learning how to "walk with God" -- a concept that started with Enoch in Genesis 4 (5?) and has not changed. God is God and nothing has changed between us and Him--He has always wanted us to walk with Him in a way that is different than the rest of the world.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@troycmoore1186 You asked, "Why would scripture even record something like 'how to not offend your Jewish friends?'" The answer is because unity was of great importance to the early Church. It's a common theme in the NT that Christians should not use their newfound freedom in Christ to offend others or cause them to stumble. For example: It is a good thing not to eat meat, or drink wine, or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble. -Romans 14:21 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. -1 Corinthians 8:9 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Romans 14:19 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. -Gal 5:13 The four restrictions given by the Jerusalem boys echo this same motivation of unity. Because the Law of Moses was so central to the Jewish Christians at that time, these guidelines helped the new Gentile believers avoid unnecessarily offending their Jewish brothers and sisters. The four restrictions weren’t a "starter pack" of Mosaic commandments. There's no NT evidence that the Gentiles ever learned or were expected to keep the whole Law.

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots So why does Paul disobey the four commands and do Number Five and circumcise Tim (Acts 16:3) if the Gentiles only had to keep four? Why does Paul go to the Temple in Acts 21:23, in front of everyone, just to pretend the Law still has force--what a hypocrite, man-pleaser he was then? And why does Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers all say that Jews and Gentiles must follow "one and the same law" just to have James smash those commands and reduce the 613 commands down to four for Gentiles? You are such a Roman Catholic it's embarrassing.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@troycmoore1186 LOL! If you knew me, you'd realize how funny it is that you called me a Roman Catholic. Keep in mind that the four restrictions mentioned in Acts 15 were given to the new Jewish Gentile believers. (James stops short of making them a "commandment," saying only, "You will do well to avoid these things.") Paul, however, was not a new Gentile believer, he was Jewish. Under the New Covenant, things like going to the Temple, keeping Sabbath, etc. ceased to be required, but they were not forbidden. They became a matter of personal conscience and expression. So Paul went to Temple for the same reason that the Jerusalem Council gave those four restrictions: to promote unity.

[@troycmoore1186]

I love this guy. (Yes, sarcasm folks.) He says his point is "self-evident" (5:45-5:55) and their are tons of verses, but he can't give one?!! He doesn't list a single verse that he says are abundant. Following this, starting at 8:30, we hear about Jeremiah's promise of a new covenant (for "Israel"; Christians always forget that bit) but the speaker then tries to pretend that this covenant will make the Law of Moses obsolete (bait and switch, anyone?) and then lastly he gets all mushing and lovie dovie about God's Goodness and kindness (9:06). Really? None of these are connected folks. A covenant is not a Law and a law is not really God's Goodness. Three separate things. And what I really wanted to hear was his interpretation of Acts 15:21, but that was a let-down. At 11:00, he says that James is talking to the Gentiles about Moses. No he ain't. James was talking to the council "members" (aka, Peter, Paul, etc.) about the situation that the Gentiles will find themselves in after the "starter package." He was telling the Jews that the Gentiles will get more on Saturday at "temple." It's only later that we see James actually "talks" to the Gentiles (in Act 15:23-29, in his letter) but there he leaves off the Moses stuff entirely. Lastly, 12:00 and following, he says that "the four" were only given to keep the Gentiles clean in the sight of the Jews. But this is a silly interpretation because the one single, solitary command about "fornication" only forbid prostitution and/or sex outside of marriage, but does not forbid taking another man's wife/adultery (c.f., Matthew 15:19) nor does it forbid same-sex relationships (yuk), nor does it keep any Gentile from marrying his daughter (double yuk) or daughter-in-law or his niece (or nephew). The one about "fornication" is not sufficient, and neither are "the four" sufficient. They need to "listen to Moses" each Saturday to get the rest and learn what makes God Almighty a happy camper and what will get us on His bad side. Someone needs to go back to the drawing board. Too many pat answers here.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

I love you, too, Troy! (No sarcasm intended.) Your comments are great. Thanks for adding to the conversation. (1.) The "abundant" verses that I did not list have to do with God's standard of holiness. I didn't list them because I didn't imagine anyone would doubt the holiness of God. Are you undecided on that topic? (2.) The "three separate things" you mentioned are, in fact, related. Jeremiah's promised New Covenant (which will be made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah") does replace the Sinai covenant (Heb 8), and the New Covenant was given because God so loved the world (John 3:16). (3.) If you've not seen it yet, here's my full video on the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZvMgIeEZZqSi7c. This video you commented on is just an excerpt from that longer video. (4.) The idea that the Gentiles will "need to 'listen to Moses' each Saturday to get the rest" is not supported by Scripture. I have found nowhere in the NT where it is said, taught, suggested, or hinted that the Gentiles were expected to, or ever did, learn the entire Law of Moses. If you know of a passage, please share it. I'm all ears.

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Of course God wants us holy--read Leviticus 11 when it first comes up. Holiness was a major theme in that book -- opps, connected to NOT eating pork though. Might be a problem for bacon loving baptists. Also, Acts 15 comes after Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers. You are not taking in the entire Biblical context. Scripture explains Scripture. Stop looking at Matthew and afterward. Gen to Rev--that's your context. James was forbidden by God to give the Gentiles four (4) commands and pronounce them part of the flock. Gentiles had to follow all the same rules--one law for Jews and Gentiles. Have you not read Ex. 12:49, Lev. 24:22 and Num. 9:14, etc.? For Gentiles to become one with Israel (Romans 11), there was one law for Jews and the same for Gentiles (aka, “strangers”). Gentiles were always joining Israel, Acts 15 is not the first time. Look at Cornelius--Acts 10--he was living as a Jew. Way before him was the people in the Book of Esther who converted, and Ruth who converted. And when they converted there was the One-Law rule. It is a Scriptural idea from the beginning; ONE Law-code for the Jew following God and ONE AND THE SAME Law-code for the Gentile who wants to convert and come in and follow God too.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@troycmoore1186 Yes, exactly. The Law of Moses was given to Jews, and the Gentiles in their midst were required to follow that same law: "You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God" (Lev 24:22). This does not mean that the Law of Moses was given to the Gentile nations. Egypt was not expected to circumcise their males at 8 days old. Assyria was not required to keep Sabbath. The Law of Moses was given to the nation of Israel alone. And anyone who wanted to be part of that nation had to follow her Laws. Just like if you traveled to another country today, you would be expected to obey their laws. However, Acts 15 happened under the New Covenant, not the Sinai Covenant. The old covenant had become obsolete (Heb 8:13). The Law of Moses, which was good and perfect, was only given for a time. That time ended with Christ. "So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith (Christ) has come, we are no longer under a guardian (the law), for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." (Gal 3:24-26)

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Hebrews 8:13 does not say to throw out G-d's 613 eternal holy spiritual commandments. You completely miss the point. Paul clearly says the Law is spiritual and holy and that he loved it (Roms. 7:12, 14), but you spit on it, as if it were garbage, pretending that Heb. 8:13 is talking about LAW when it says COVENANT. (In the Greek, the word covenant isn't even there, though implied.) Go back to verse 10 where it says the "Laws" (aka, commandments) will be written on the hearts in the future. Hello -- law is different word than covenant. You cannot toss out Ex. 12:49, Lev. 24:22 and Num. 9:14, etc. with Hebrew 8:13 at all because it's not talking about law, but the promise, the covenant; but same good old law will be used. You really are blind and cannot see what is written, seeing only what you want to see. And if I'm wrong about Heb 8:10 (which is Jer. 31:31), then tell me bright eyes, what "laws" will G-d write on the hearts of the Jews he is making the promise to?

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

@@troycmoore1186 That's exactly what I said, Troy: "The old covenant had become obsolete (Heb 8:13)." I then cited a different passage (Gal 3:24-26) to begin to make the case that the Law of Moses, too, is no longer in effect. The book of Hebrews also contributes to that case in several places. For example, in Heb 7, the author explains how Jesus is our High Priest, even though He is not from the tribe of Levi, as the Law of Moses required. How is that permissible? "For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well" (Heb 7:12).

[@78mking]

Isaiah 2 which is an end time prophecy and speaks of the nations coming to the mountain of the Lord to learn of the way of God and in it the Torah will go forth but you are saying the Torah that was once done away with will now be retaught to the people according to that scripture. Makes nothing sense whatsoever. God’s Torah is eternal, end of story.

[@troycmoore1186]

I love the comment that the "starter package" has no precedent in God's Word (3:20-3:30). But I'm being sarcastic! All of Exodus to Numbers, God is giving new statutes and judgements and commandments as they travel along. Especially look at the second Passover they had after getting free of Egypt (Numbers 9:6-13). Four men couldn't participate in that Passover and they complained and God made a new rule for them. The death of Aaron's two sons was an occasion for more commands. The five daughters of Zelophahad. Slowly God gave out the commandments as they traveled 38 years in the dessert. A bunch of the commands were ones they could obey during their travels and others were on hold until they arrived in the land promised to Israel, Isaac and Abraham, forever. No precedent, my foot!!

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Troy! So, you said that "All of Exodus to Numbers, God is giving new statutes and judgments and commandments as they travel along." This is during the giving of the Torah. The concept of a "starter pack," however, is that, although the full Law (613 commandments) have been given, one is only expected to obey a handful of those laws (a "starter pack"), and then they will eventually be expected to obey the full Law over time.

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Let's back up. Some read the letter from James and the Jerusalem boys in Acts 15:23-29 and James telling the new Gentiles converts THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR NOW list of commands. If they are sleeping around with various women, going to pagan temples, eating blood and THEN wanting to go to synagogue on Saturday, none of the other Jews will want them in the synagogue. So this was the short list of "four commands" for the Gentiles (who were basically following Peter and James and Paul becoming Jews with a "Christian" flavour) to get the ball rolling. And this idea of getting the ball rolling, YOU said, was not a concept ANYWHERE in the NT or the Law and the Prophets (not your exact words, but Old Testament is a pejorative for me) and I toke offense because you see how God does things slowly, one step at a time, ALL THE TIME in Scripture.

[@troycmoore1186]

@@TheBiblicalRoots Go back: you said the idea of starting small and working up (like the "starter pack" in Acts 15) has no precedent in Scripture and I called you out on that error by pointing you to Exodus and Numbers. You are so wrong to teach that to other. Scripture always starts off small and works things up. Its the Biblical pattern, like milk for babes and solid food later for adults. And didn’t Jesus spend three years teaching the Tedious Twelve? Why didn’t he just hand them all New Testaments and go? Because he had to spoon feed it to them. “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now” (John 16:12). The same pattern is in Exodus to Numbers; the Jews received the 613 commandments over the 38 years. Many came as the need arose, such as the Second Passover and the inheritance for Zelophahad's five daughters.

[@nicoarnold2200]

@@troycmoore1186 Good try Troy, but in Acts 15 the law of Moses was ages old and nothing new to be taught. You cannot compare the giving of the law over a long period of time to Acts 15, it just doesn't fit. But you have to believe it otherwise your whole theory, and by implication theology. collapses

[@martiyowell9674]

I respectfully disagree with just about everything this guy's saying. First of all God has always had a standard for Gentiles who attach themselves to Jews and their way of religion. Genesis describes God's command to Abraham that the Gentiles are supposed to keep rules and regulations just like the Jews do. In fact Moses wrote this in Exodus how they were to treat Gentiles wanting to attach to the Jews. Also Jesus said that his words would never pass away. Until Heaven and Earth pass not a jot, not a tittle will pass from the law. You find this in Matthew 5. This guy's off on so much that you can't fill the page with all the era in his teaching.

[@TheBiblicalRoots]

Thanks, Marti! I appreciate your feedback. It's interesting to note that the Gentile nations were never expected to keep the kosher food laws, or the Sabbath, or be circumcised, etc. We see Israel judged by God for not keeping those laws, but Gentiles are never judged for it. That's because the Law of Moses was given solely to Israel. It served as the terms of the Sinai Covenant between God and Israel. God chose them from among all the other nations to be His special people (See Exodus 19). Of course, if a particular Gentile wanted to live with/in Israel, they were expected to keep the Mosaic law (or at least _most_ of the law). This is similar to how an American needs to keep French laws when they are in France. But if that Gentile were to later leave Israel, they would no longer be bound by those laws. This is because the law was for Israel.

[@friscoj68]

Marti Yowell--Where do you get this Gentiles wanting to "attach to the Jews" stuff? There were a few Egyptians coming out of Egypt who joined the exodus hence the foreigner passage the HRM clings to for 95% of its theology. I want to follow Christ not become an Israelite or convert to Judaism. I'll follow His commandments not the instructions/covenant given to the 12 tribes at Sinai (which incidentally was fulfilled by Christ during his time on earth). God has a plan for Israel, as he has a plan for his believing Church. The Church has not replaced Israel nor the has the existence of Israel diminished the body of Christ (The Church).

[@JustThinkingAboutIt-i5k]

Jesus explicitly told the disciples to go to the nations and teach them what he taught. We both know that Jesus taught the Torah, I don't think your gonna deny that. Also this was after he said on the cross. "It is finished". Not only that; by the time all this happened it was a while before it was all written down and available. The author didn't say (none of them) that Jesus was keeping all this secret as you would have to assume. Maybe its just what it is. I'm not sure why you want to make keeping God's commandments as a bad thing; it was to bring blessing if you kept it; It was indeed the good news. @@TheBiblicalRoots