America's Most Powerful Cars Ever - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 154

Do we love fast cars? Or is the experience more important than the speed?
===
Click here to join the Hagerty Driver's Club: bit.ly/Join-HD...
===
Jason's T-Shirt: closed-course-...
Get some behind-the-scenes of Jason's Ultimate Drag Race Replay episode racing the two most powerful American cars of all time: the 1234-hp Lucid Air Sapphire and the 1025-hp Dodge Challenger SRT Demon 170.
Jason's episode raced the cars both on regular asphalt and then on a VHT-prepped race surface at the Famoso Drag Strip.
Are the Carmudgeons impressed? We'll find out - in a discussion about whether the faster engine option is the better choice.
Is it speed we love? Or are we looking for experience? In that latter case, electric sports cars like the Rimac Nevera might be in trouble. And it might explain why Bugatti-Rimac's latest car uses a combustion engine.
This, and more, on this episode of the Carmudgeon Show.

[@JasonCammisa]

If you're interested in the T-Shirt, link is above in the description!

[@Tom-lf8hx]

The hoodies and shirts are bloody awesome, perfect for an aussie winter ❤

[@dawsonjohannes613]

3M engineer here - good on you Derek for knowing the MMM acronym! I spend a lot of time listening to this podcast at the (home) office.

[@tjseid]

Derek and Jason talking about being high was certainly unexpected 😂

[@SaXXXon]

yeah. thats when i dropped out 😕

[@tjseid]

@@SaXXXon coulda just skipped ahead it was only a couple minutes

[@TheGoozealot]

Need the hotbox episode of the Curmudgeon show!

[@savajames3774]

id love an episode where you guys physically go around your car collections and discuss them... could be a great multipart mini series or something! (i just wanna see that 850)

[@JacksonODJ]

100% in for a Baked Carmudgeon episode.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I really like the idea of having a reference "normal" sports car as the baseline for Ultimate Drag Race Replay

[@rizakatsudon]

10:25 Project Farm mention! I see Derek is a man interested in quality reviews

[@brenotanure3336]

Please bring Adam Savage and test the questions posed on this episode. That’d be epic 😅

[@murdoch9106]

My father had a Mercedes 240 with a custom Turbo and added intercooler from a Volvo, 5 speed manual he searched some time to find, 1983 W123... Think we did 230 - 240 kmh down Autobahn in that thing one summer. It was an engine swap, it was a 200 gas model and the donor car with the turbo setup was super rusty so he found this clean gas version, exactly the same body just different model... I still dream of that thing, it was completely rust free, excellent condition... this was late 90's. He sold it and the new owner did not take care of it, a year later shocks were blown and the car was rusting away...

[@dougrobinson8602]

NASCAR uses something like VHT on some tracks to allow multiple groove racing. It definitely allows faster speeds when you run in it.

[@elbertstacy9602]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was like,nascar and indy car dose this

[@ducbox572]

I recall VHT also sells (or sold) a compound that can be applied to tires to make them stickier.

[@drewwrobel564]

and/or PJ1

[@elbertstacy9602]

@drewwrobel564 anytime I read pj1 I hear dale earnhart jr talking about it

[@OurGraciousHost]

"welcome in" is inclusive to vampires, that's probably why people say it

[@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT]

As a vampire I feel extremely welcomed and appreciated.

[@JayDee-b5u]

Can't they just say, 'Welcome'? Or does that not constitute an invite?

[@asamyers4572]

You want to talk about slow…I had the chance to drive a 26’ Penske rental truck about 3000 miles. It was loaded down maybe 1500 pounds and felt quick between 30 and 35. It also had the miraculous ability to turn even the smoothest, newest roads into the bumpiest road you could think of. A fun CUDR episode could be a rental box truck race between U-Haul, Penske, enterprise, etc. Or maybe a U-Haul lineup drag race

[@ArchaicJoker]

we need a High-mudgeon show

[@michaelking6596]

@JasonCammisa re the VHT of the track... When they were filming the last Bond movie and they were driving the replica DB5 replica stunt car through the old streets on cobbles there was no traction. They couldn't modify the surface or damage...sooo . They poured Sprite all over it ...clear and in the sun when dry.. very sticky... So maybe that's your ultimate LAP race sly cheat.... No soft drink sponsorship was provided for this tid-bit

[@S8ER]

@@michaelking6596 you should see the mix used on the streets (aka homemade “pimp juice”)

[@200degrees]

40:54 I completely understand your frustration! I have a 1990 Delica Star wagon which makes 85hp and weighs 5000lbs. I've run the 1/8th mile at 45mph/17.5 Seconds. Rocket ship haha

[@LearningFast]

Did 10.63 @ 127+ mph for the 1/4 mile in my new 2024 Highland Tesla Model 3 Performance this weekend. I took 100 lbs of weight out of it and it made about .1 seconds difference. Thanks for your review of the car. I knew I had to get it after you talked about it.

[@0fx2gv]

The "greeter" position was conceived by large retailers (i.e. Walmart) to give people with disabilities a source of income and exposure to consumers while simultaneously getting tax breaks from the federal government by doing so. We have a greeter at our Walmart who is more accurately described as a "lurker". Walmart pays this elderly woman to lurk (not speak) to customers entering the store in exchange for tax beaks

[@S8ER]

As always, the drag race video was a masterpiece. Great editing, great content, well researched and executed. I did want to say that regardless of actual results achieved during the testing it's important to not discount or ignore the fact that better results for the Demon 170 are out there. Just because it didn't even come close to manufacturer claimed results during your testing doesn't mean it's not capable. It appears that the take away from the video is that the Demon 170 is slower than claimed and flat out loses despite a few owners hitting the numbers this time around (unlike with the original Demon).

[@JasonCammisa]

It's also important for me to point out that I've not seen better results for a 100% stock Demon. I spoke to a couple of owners who would only participate in the video in their OWN car, and when pressed for a reason, it turned out they all made huge, huge mods.

[@S8ER]

@@JasonCammisa I appreciate that context. It's always possible people are lying or hiding things when making these claims but if you've spoken to and ruled out all of their results then I will gladly retract my statement. When you say you've not seen better results do you mean the Dodge claims or the results from your video? Steven Ripa did 9.3 for example and his claim was untouched/bone stock allegedly.

[@eichler721]

​@JasonCammisa demonology called you out for a rematch in Texas on a prepped correct track. He has run constantly low 9's from 9.0's-9.2's depending on the DA. Also, you can run higher than E85 and the computer tunes for it so E90 and it is still stock.

[@MrSuchasillygoose]

I'm going to go with Jason's test on it. There are too many ways to modify a car and still claim is "stock." How about running it low on oil, coolant, empty out the windshield wiper fluid, run on minimum thickness rotors and pads, etc. Or maybe do "minor" safety changes to test it but in the process maybe I don't know, leave some interior panels out. Isn't this Dodge insanely compromised already in factory form to only do drag races? I must admit I haven't followed all the iterations of it, but I seem to remember the original Demon crate included a lot of parts that were not street legal. I mean, I wouldn't even accept a prepped surface as a method to test a street car.

[@S8ER]

@@MrSuchasillygoose everyone is going to go with Jason’s video on this. The entire point of Dodge doing the NHRA certified time was to a) sell cars and b) prove it could do it without additional mods from the factory. Unless Dodge outright lied there is still credibility to their NHRA certified results.

[@istvanlorinczi2817]

I've seen a meme with the Sprinter being about 2150kg, and the M5 is over 2400kg The weight difference between the current and next generation M5 is nearly as much (only around 100lbs less) then a Caterham Seven Alternatively, it's heavier then 2 E30 325i's

[@williamgechtman9287]

My slowest car driven wasn't actually a car. It was a friend's 1965 VW OEM camper. Beautiful blonde wood interior, pop top, sink w/pump spigot, all the fittings and *grossly* underpowered. I drove it from North Carolina to New Jersey one night. One fairly windy night. You had to crank in about a 45° turn on the wheel into the wind to get it to track straight. When you then drove through a cut or next to a truck that obstructed the wind, it made a sharp right hand turn. It was like driving a sail. A sail that slowed going uphill even when you downshifted.

[@chillspirit7274]

Once the new Ford Capri is out that has got to be the biggest increase in weight between generations

[@davidziegenhorn6913]

Hold up. The quicker you launch, the slower your trap speed is? I'm so confused. I think we need a whole episode explaining this.

[@braydenbro9247]

Because you're more efficiently covering ground, as opposed to wheelspin city when you have more power but spin wheels during a launch

[@davidziegenhorn6913]

@@braydenbro9247 wait does that mean wheels spinning when you launch is actually a faster launch?

[@devandrasimanjuntak1646]

@@davidziegenhorn6913no no. if all other things are equal, the car with a quicker launch will have a slower trap speed than the car with a slower launch. This is because you are covering the distance more quickly. Good example: run a stock 60s muscle car on standard 60s tires on the 1/4 mile. then swap the tires for drag radials and run the 1/4 mile again. The drag radials will be about 2 seconds faster, but the car will cross the line about 2 mph slower than the stock tire car. You can also see this in the Hagerty drag race between the Plaid and the Chiron. The Chrion is 4 mph faster than the Plaid when it crosses the line, but is 0.2 seconds slower to 60 mph.

[@Hildepedia]

Agreed. Sounds like a job for the other Jason! And his whiteboard…

[@MTBkid42]

For the same quarter mile time, both cars must have the same average speed since they do the same number of miles in the same fraction of an hour. If you launch faster, you get up to speed quicker. If you launch slower but have the same finishing time and average speed, then you must make that speed up somewhere, usually in the top end aka trap speed.

[@Quesadila21]

54:05 I'm pretty sure the 6th Gen Camaro went down like 300lbs when it switched from the Zeta platform of the 5th Gen in 2015, to the new Alpha platform in 2016.

[@YaroCarHustle]

Jason is drinking a tea... that's something new (:

[@elib2670]

It would seem not only derek but jason also has good taste

[@YaroCarHustle]

@@elib2670 🤩😭

[@donschiffer7400]

As another person whose owned mountains of old cars, the smaller engined versions also tend to hold up better. Less optional equipment to break, less stress on everything and the drivers tend to be less aggressive, thus easier on the car.

[@urbanstrencan]

This drag race had unexpected results, didn't see Dodge loosing for so much. Great podcast guys keep up with great work. And you two should get on a plane and visit Rimac factory in Croatia

[@alanperry8676]

My first track day was at Pacific Raceways (then called Seattle International Raceway). Drag races are also held there and at that time the drag strip was also the front straight for the road course. One interesting thing about VHT is that rain anf VHT is a very slippery combination. And it was raining that day. Despite warnings about this in the driver's meeting (enter the front straight later to avoid the VHT), several cars didn't do this and significant damage was done to several cars. Pacific Raceway was eventually redesigned so that the road course did not enter the drag strip until well down its length and past where any VHT would be.

[@50zoomie]

I had to shift my 2CV to 1st gear in the Alps while on a trip from Southern Italy to Paris. Loved that car!

[@britboy70]

You should come drive my 1979 MGB. There’s a rice pudding that isn’t worried about its skin…. But it is so much fun at 30 mph

[@jhawkins05]

Slowest car i ever drove was an early 80s Chevy chevette 4 door with the 3 speed auto. It was in the 90s when i drove it and it Feels like I am still waiting to hit 60mph! We timed it at over 25 seconds to 60 after years of hard use.

[@_que]

Ahh the Chevette, fond memories , learned how to drive stick in that. Best slow car ever driven.

[@SethDavis96]

You should team up with Cleetus for a couple videos! I bet he would let you test the VHT theory at the Freedom Factory

[@agtshaw]

my slow car is my first gen honda insight with a disabled hybrid system, so 67hp 3 cylinder power only

[@gimpjfk]

PLEASE DO AN EPISODE HIGH

[@TenB33rs]

l would be interested to know if you have to precondition the batteries in the Lucid to get those times and how long that takes. Would also like to know what the times would be without preconditioning.

[@RmB9104]

YES on the high video, but edibles. Also bring some food and water!

[@0o0ification]

My dad was a long term owner of a big block C2 Corvette, and would lament that the small block cars were much better drivers. TLDR He got a fortuitous deal on a drag race build, so the big block version could definitely do that errand! But, I never forgot the lesson that weight and balance are really important to driving and the experience.

[@brianisimo76]

Radwood Q&A high for the win!

[@Carameldelight77]

NASCAR will use PJ1 (similar to VHT) in thinner coats and less frequently than drag strips on some of its oval tracks occasionally. It speeds up lap times if it ends up being more grippy than the bare racing surface (sometimes it isn’t)

[@Apexseal1]

17:44 I've tested this myself on a sim and found that I was around 1-2 tenths faster high than when I was when sober (50 laps sober vs high at brands hatch in an mx-5 cup car, with laptimes averaged out), obviously not something anyone should do in the real world but I believe the increase in focus does help, specifically when you're hotlapping. I also found that spacial awareness decreses (like tunnel vision) so in a racing senario smoking would have very real drawbacks. Not a surprise honestly but it was for science.

[@narek_kona302]

What's funny is the more tires that get laid down on the track the stickier it gets. I'm guessing adding VHT on a road course should do something similar

[@silvapain]

VHT was tried by NASCAR in the last decade or so on some smaller tracks like Bristol. I believe IndyCar also tried it and found it produced LESS grip due to vehicle weight and tire compounds.

[@RobTeeJr]

My screaming sh!tbox was my first car which was a 1959 Renault Dauphine This was also my slowest car. It was slow in traffic and everywhere else. My high school was located on a long steep hill. I approached the hill at full speed with my 32 horsepower engine screaming. But by mid hill I was down to first gear. I was routinely passed by school buses on the way up the hill. A year later I had "upgraded" to a 36 horsepower 1958 Beetle.

[@fjalics]

Glad he brought up the 5N, but the Model 3 Performance can do 11.0 also, and of course everybody knows about the Plaid.

[@patyboy2628]

That VHT stuff becomes impossible to drive on as soon as any amount of rain hits the surface.

[@davebarron5939]

Largest "weight gain" that would be VERY interesting, especially if you did a history of the "off-the-wagon" cars. LOL

[@AndreThompson925]

That shirt is amazing.

[@andrewy6527]

@jasoncammisa - can you please do an episode diving into blended braking for EVs/PHEVs? Why do some manufacturers refuse to do it? How does this impact the driving experience - real world and at the limit (track)?

[@seepuyi]

@JasonCammisa I recall this C&D article. Wasn't it an A/B test with alcohol vs marijuana? The analysis was for a given volume of alcohol (maybe a shot?) vs %THC, motor and cognitive function declined linearly for alcohol, whereas there was no measurable motor function decline for pot, but cognitive function declined exponentially. Short answer, driving after the first hit of pot (1970's formulation, not the blow your mind stuff you get today) is slightly safer than the a typical alcoholic drink.

[@curtislovrak5390]

I listened to this episode while installing a smaller camshaft in my car.

[@sirbowserfelix9293]

To me a benchmark should be something like a middle range model Corolla, because it is probably one of The Cars Ever made, and it's been like this since it was first released. A equivalent Civic could also do...

[@willsullivan3]

"The Song of my People!" HOO-RA!

[@Gunny426HemiPlymouth]

I have driven a vw bus, on the highway, with 31 inch tires, and a stock single port. Never again 😂

[@antonycatulo7707]

JC your high now aren’t you while you filming and it’s awesome I want to see you drive like this your drifts will be epic

[@SvendP]

The slowest car I have driven is my E-golf in Eco+ mode, where it only makes 74 HP. It's still faster than most other cars accelerating in traffic though.

[@Loothansa]

The fact that a lot of people think its fine to drive high is concerning to me. As someone who has part taken quite a bit in dense altitude activities I have NEVER felt like I'm ok to drive during that nor would I let any of my friends drive. Do most people feel like its not a big deal?

[@assininecomment1630]

*Off-topic (mostly) #1:* I see this _Willkommen / Welcome in!_ and German pronunciation intro - immediately after having finally watched last 2023's Carmudge Citroën episode, with its extended exploration of Dutch / German pronunciations. 😮 *Off-topic (massively) #2:* I've only now read my first article about the global debacle around CrowdStrike's 'blue screen of death' glitch - just as Jason battled the aforementioned screen, in the aforementioned Citroën episode (at 53:40-something). 🤯

[@thedownwardmachine]

When I think of the 240D, I think of the one from Nocturnal Animals where the guy couldn't drive fast enough to keep his family from getting murdered.

[@redlion145]

49:15 Interesting to hear you say that Jason, I've wondered about that since the inception of CUDRR. You seem like the last person who would care about straight line speed. I always chalked CUDRR's existence up to Hagerty wanting more than Revelations and Icons out of you, and you not wanting to do a conventional review series. I saw that video with Vin on the Ioniq 5 N... and that only confirmed my beliefs in this respect.

[@bikergobrrr]

Is the high episode going to become the next Piëchisode where its teased for 5 years?

[@milesredgate4596]

The slowest car I've driven was my parents 8th gen civic with the 1.8 and a manual. Not that the car was particularly slow, more so they never bothered to explain to me while teaching me manual that higher revs = more power. They just told me to keep the revs between 1.6k and 2.5k, so I'd be flooring it going up a hill in 5th wondering why I'd lose 20kmph by the top of the hill.

[@swatmann7541]

Bro I owned a w114 240D..... every passing lane in australia is uphill....

[@obsidian....]

35:28 Yes we are sick of hearing how fast EVs are. And yet you still did it... Thanks 🤔

[@ateamfan42]

The 2x4s are a scam thing is a myth. Lumber is SAWN to 2"x4" (called rough cut) and then planed to smooth out the surfaces. You can buy rough cut lumber at the full dimensions, but most lumber you see has already been planed.

[@dhmallet]

See the Hoonigan GL and the Black one at Goodwood Festival of Speed.

[@TotallyHuckedGarage]

EVERYBODY should have to drive one of these slow cars (we've always referred to them as momentum cars) and then we would have many more better drivers. Especially when merging

[@antonycatulo7707]

Yeeessss do a episode hiiighhhh

[@Guythatlivesaquietlife]

i have a question regarding the dodge demon 170. If dodge really wanted to create an ultimate demon made for drag races, why they disrergarded all wheel drive?

[@THMSKA]

I think the simple answer is tradition. Muscle cars and classic drag racing cars have for the most part been RWD. I'm with you though, I would love to see what an AWD variant could be capable of.

[@MaddNomad1015]

@@THMSKAI think it’s that but also they don’t have money to develop a system like that.

[@S8ER]

@@MaddNomad1015 the trackhawk and Durango hellcat are both in the mid 8s at 165ish mph. Dodge has the hardware but it adds weight and honestly would just slow the thing down given its power output.

[@Forgotten_performance]

No real benefits to AWD on a prepped surface if the cars set up right

[@Guythatlivesaquietlife]

@@Forgotten_performance so the lucid could generate the same results or something really that close even if it was pure rwd but with the same 1234hp?

[@mnypit]

Still choosing the Dodge over the Lucid 10/10 times

[@blaineadams7484]

Apply the vht directly to the tires. Use a sprayer tied to the abs system so it understands the rotation of the tire. Goldberg your ride

[@arthurs7882]

I don't think camp EV necessarily hates camp combustion. The former fuse the latter as anachronistic, but for combustion enthusiasts, EVs are a political flashpoint. There is a difference. I say this as someone who owns an EV, but goes to cars and coffee for combustion vehicles

[@ricardosilva-xz1yt]

And yes Sacco for greatest car designer of all time. And Ian Callum close 2nd

[@Jason_Quinn]

I drive a Subaru. The merge lane isn't long enough for me to get up to traffic speed.

[@Epacheco]

Did Jason just duplicate via mitosis and now he's half the size? Dude you look so much thinner! Good on you, you do look great!

[@kwisin1337]

Benchmark car idea, Pick a car we could go out and test drive. Basic options, or close to market options. If your viewer from Toronto or Mexico or California can go out and test drive a car today, why not test drive a car that has been tested. My E65 750iL is 5611 lbs........ the new M5 is how much?

[@James-pl2oy]

Store greeters is definitely an East Asia thing that possibly found its way west. Japanese and Taiwanese department stores have had cute female store greeters for decades

[@productdesign9626]

36:27 that's torque, Hyphen, not power. Power is torque * RPM so the power curve still has to rise to a maximum.

[@nokiangage]

You have milked the other episode at max making this one lol

[@philbegas]

My brother is thinking about selling his blau zhp (manual)

[@anthonydietmeier6524]

I'll vote experience over speed every day and twice on sunday. Fast in and of itself gets boring quick.

[@memuller]

This episode is brought to you by High-erty.... 😂

[@alanperry8676]

Jason doesn't know what engine is in the normally aspirated Esprits? A non-turbo version of the slant-four Turbo Esprit / Esprit Turbo engine. Not exactly rocket science. The Lotus 907 (2L normally aspirated 140 bhp in US market cars) and 910 (2.2L turbo 210-ish bhp in US market cars, depending on year).

[@obsidian....]

9:58 They do... NASCAR does

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I'm of half a mind that BMW's current releases are there simply to prop up their previous generations' values, because the whole BMW team already owns them and know that the current decision makers won't allow them to make good cars ever again.

[@iMaxPatten]

The new Taycan gained some healthy horsepower (and got faster charging) while having a lighter battery. BMW wyd?

[@punjabeeplaya]

"Most powerfulest" - DTS

[@punjabeeplaya]

And we all want a high episode.

[@shingoose6197]

Excuse me, Jason? 🤣

[@christophermeixell4978]

I don't know anything about drag racing, but I'm not buying that a bad start can yield a higher trap speed. I assume by 'bad start', we're talking wheel spin, not reaction time. Let me attempt a math-style proof, and if anyone can see where I'm making a mistake, please tell me: Assumptions: Reaction time is identical, cars, and drivers are identical aside from wheel spin at start, resulting in less initial acceleration. Statement: The car with wheel spin will have a lower trap speed. Proof: Suppose, for the purpose of contradiction, that the car with wheel spin has a higher or equal trap speed. For simplicity, we will just consider the case that the car with wheel spin has an equal trap speed - the same logic can be applied to prove the case of higher trap speed. Draw two lines, representing distance traveled for each car, from 0mi to 1/4mi. Mark the initial section of one line as distance over which wheel spin occurred. Without loss of generality, we will now label these lines with speeds. Suppose at the end of that wheel spin distance, the car with wheel spin is going 40mph, and the car without is going 50mph. Suppose that both cars finish the 1/4 mi at 110mph. In picture form (top line is car with wheel spin): 0-------40---50----------110 0-------50-----------------110 As this picture shows, both cars have no wheel spin from 50mph to 110mph. This, combined with (see Assumptions), implies that both cars should require the same distance to accelerate from 50mph to 110mph. However, the car that started with wheel spin requires less distance. qed Disclaimer: If we DO allow for reaction time differences, it is certainly possible to have a higher time, and faster trap speed. The best drag racer in the world in the fastest drag car in the world will easily lose a drag race to a pensioner in a Prius if the racer gives the pensioner a 30-second head start, and the racer will have his usual trap speed.

[@TheLuisg92]

Oh Gosh , Jason’s vocal fry is driving me insane! Both Derek and Jason have always done the vocal fry thing, but looks like Jason is determined to outdo Derek in this aspect. He sounds like a dry door hinge and can barely get to the end of the sentence. Is like he took speech lessons with the Kardashians

[@WelcomeToAir]

Highmudgeon !😂

[@Fordguy1997]

Cammisa, there’s no way you’re 220 lbs are you lol? 200 tops I’d say

[@eichler721]

This episode showed you don't know about drag racing. I love the show but the VHT level for a slick tire vs a Drag radial is so different that it means cars that run 6's on good prep for radials run 8' or low 9's on prep for slicks thus why they run different days at FL2k for slicks vs radials. The car was set up for failure as Tom, Demonology, RacerX and many others have run low 9's consistently. Have a pro team like the FL2K team or Mass Traction set up the event and run it and the times will be vastly different. Even in the first week of having his Demon 170 and not knowing how to set it up best RacerX ran high 9,s. On the street the Demon stands no chance but in the right prep its close and the Demon beats the plaid and is close to the Lucid even though I think the Lucid wins.

[@Accost2u]

I think you proved Jason’s point even more though. That you need all these considerations and preparations all the barely keep up or beat these high end EVs. Throw your average crazy grandma in them and you’ll run times that dedicated drag cars are running with AC on and massage seats going. The speed war is over for ICE cars so give us FUN cars again.

[@eichler721]

@Accost2u well on the street yes that has been known for a while. However on the dragstrip not even close as people are making low 9 second cars for 60-70 grand. A Mustang with a FBO supercharger kit and upgraded fuel system and some suspension tuning runs low 9's and the record is in the 8's its been beat a few times so I don't want to misquote the time. Hellcats with 8 grand in them have ran low 9's as well. Then you have cars that run 7's and 6's and no EV can touch that. This is what I mean when I say people who don't know the drag racing game get things so wrong it's not funny.

[@eichler721]

@Accost2u also the same for race tracks the fastest Tesla can keep up with the fastest M5CS for a lap before the brakes quite or the tires get hot and greasy. Even the Hypercar EV's like the EP9 and the Nevera can't crack the top 10 on the Nordschleife which hasn't had any hypercars other then the AMG One, and 10 year old 918Spyder which does make the top ten dispite being 10 years old. We still have Jesko, Valkarie, T50, Senna, Huayra BC, Bolide, and many more.

[@RdnkB]

Did Jason loose some weight?

[@flacjacket]

I know when they did the alcohol test everyone got faster, presumably because their sense of self preservation waned.

[@sikelelabiyana8445]

No love for the E46 M3? Does that include the CSL?

[@stewiegriffin9218]

we are here to listen to a car podcast not drugs......

[@jasondoe5741]

I drive a Tesla as my daily and a Cayman so no there aren’t two americas

[@hardcoreep]

Second

[@kefang6929]

Did jason lose a few pounds

[@necron1050]

The whole greaters things in America is deeply uncomfortable for a European.

[@necron1050]

Last time I was in America, I was in the elevator of the hotel going down, it stopped and a lady got got in and immediately started talking at me about her son. WHY! What did she want from me. Why are you like this America?

[@nooooooooooo6uoki67]

@@necron1050 I will have you know her son is very talented and I can't believe you just brushed her off.

[@necron1050]

​@@nooooooooooo6uoki67dear informed american, so next time im there how am I supposed to deal with people constantly asking 'how's it going'. Here we call that verbal assault

[@nooooooooooo6uoki67]

@@necron1050 in school they taught us to awkwardly stare into their eyes and mutter a greeting that sounds like "doin OK thanks and you?" but really its more like "doinokthanksareoyu". You get better at it with time.

[@necron1050]

​@@nooooooooooo6uoki67ah that makes sense. Must have been done in the time we do things like learning the 8 different spoons for a relaxed dinner.