J-Frame Stupidity-Part 1-Cylinder Gap

[@oldcop18]

If I’m ever attacked by lumber I’ll put some validity into this study. I’ve used a thirty-eight to defend myself more than once during my LEO career and know, first hand, that “stopping power” is nonsense. Carry what works best for you and practice often b/c it’s all about shot placement w/any of the service calibers. My EDC continues to be a J frame loaded w/the +P FBI round.

[@Me2Lancer]

Old Cop thank you!

[@WayneP1973]

Old Cop Right On

[@kenibnanak5554]

Yep. My purchased for official use Ruger Service 6 still sits ready with US Treasury +P+ loads. Bullet placement is everything.

[@randlecarr3257]

+P at a minimum. Good round.

[@LVLouisCyphre]

Some people own older revolvers that can't handle +P. I dated someone who did. She bought a pawn shop find for $100, an older Charter Arms .38 special. It was all she could afford. She bought it for protection against her abusive exhusband and also had her Utah CFP. It clearly had stamped on the barrel "NOT RATED FOR +P." I told her just to carry standard Winchester Silvertips. I didn't chastise her for buying it, I told her what that meant and the best thing for her to do is to practice markspersonship. Hornady and I think a couple of other ammo makes make a decent .38 special non-+P round.

[@thornefroemming7796]

When someone sets out to prove their own bias, they are generally successful.

[@JohnLloydScharf]

I would say the practical proof is a comparison of the most powerful manufactured ammo with the highest muzzle energy or the highest SAAMI specification. The fact is the highest for 9mm is a 115 at high velocity and the highest for the .38 Special at high velocity allowed by SAAMI specs out of a 15" barrel. Two manufacturers push the envelope by actual testing are Underwood and Buffalo Bore. BB, that is: 9mm Luger +P+ 115 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point - (1,400 fps/M.E. 500 ft.lbs.) 38 SPL +P OUTDOORSMAN 158 gr. Hard Cast Keith (1,250 fps/M.E. 548 ft.lbs) UNDERWOOD 9mm Luger +P+ 115gr. Sporting Jacketed Hollow Point Hunting & Self Defense (ft. lbs) : 501 .38 Special +P 158gr. Keith Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast Hunting (ft. lbs) : 548

[@garyK.45ACP]

"The 9mm is more powerful" Yeah. SO WHAT? Why would you waste your time to prove what we have known for more than 100 years? If I were a revolverphile, I would tell you to compare the 2 from a revolver. There ARE 9mm revolvers. Bottom line...some cartridges are more powerful than other cartridges. SO WHAT? They are BOTH usable and practical for CCW. They BOTH have practical purposes. I own BOTH. I also own CC handguns in .380, .45 and even a (horror!) .32 ACP. SO WHAT? They ALL make holes in assailants that hurt. They ALL make me less a target.

[@colinnorris3202]

gary K I agree with this. For all the people who talk about how some rounds are low powered, I say they volunteer to stand in front of one and then tell me how low powered it is. Of all the low powered calibers, I’d want to be shot by none of them.

[@Me2Lancer]

Exactly gary K. If you doubt the effectiveness of a snub nose revolver, aks Lee Harvey Oswald.

[@jamesgreen9954]

I think if you compare some of the hot 38spl +P rounds to the 9mm you will find they are pretty close but yeah the 9mm is slightly more powerful. I shoot both calibers, 9mm from my FN 509 midsize conceal carry and 38spl+P from my S&W revolver.

[@ogarzabello]

So many butthurt revolver guys, LOL! Truth hurts but liberates.

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@Me2Lancer Or John Lennon.

[@GunSam]

Ammunition companies often use the same powder charge between 9mm and .38 Special+P, but because of the case capacity of the .38 Special, the pressure is down around 20,000 PSI and the 9mm is around 35,000 PSI. That equates to about 900 FPS for the .38 Special with a 125 gr bullet in that snubby, and about 1,000 FPS with that 9mm with a 124 gr bullet in a subcompact pistol. This is with common ammunition though. With "real" ammo, we are more like pushing a .38 Special+P like 110 gr@ 1,100 FPS/302 ft lbs energy. This puts the .38 Special about the same power bracket as a subcompact 9mm. Cylinder gap accounts for about 5% velocity loss in a revolver on average. I can say this though, that I have fired the Super-Vel .38 Special+P 90 gr through a 4" barrel and got 1,652 FPS average for 546 ft lbs. AND the Super-Vel is indeed a SAAMI member company. I'm sorry to say, but the 9mm just does not have the capabilities to break 500 ft lbs energy in any barrel length, and certainly not at 20,000 PSI because the case capacity just cannot support enough slow burning powder to do it. I don't love the 9mm, but it's a great cartridge, but we have to be realistic of the facts that blanket statements that the 9mm is more powerful is plain wrong. The 9mm is more powerful than most .38 Special ammo, because most .38 Special ammo does not need to be pushed hot simply because the .357 Magnum DOES exist. It's an advantage to load most of the .38 Special ammo where it is, because quite frankly even with less energy, a lot of studies shows that it's just as effective as the 9mm for self defense.

[@LionquestFitness]

This is a stupid and silly video. Carry what you want, feel free to share why, but forget these ridiculous comparisons.

[@hillshepherd9444]

shut up !!

[@ogarzabello]

So many butthurt revolver guys, LOL! Truth hurts but liberates.

[@60viking]

Right on!

[@LionquestFitness]

@@ogarzabello Butt hurt aye? Interesting description. Must be something you have experience with.

[@22frets76]

9mm penetrates further...which is literally why 38 is so much better for concealed carry

[@metayerman]

22frets unless you want your bullets to penetrate. Since that’s how bullets hurt things I’ll take the more powerful round that penetrates more. Besides, if you’re really worried about over-penetration you can use hollow points.

[@matthewrobinson4323]

Some people are so incredibly insecure that they have to denigrate and disparage anyone with a different opinion or preference. I say that AS a J Frame Fan boy. I love snub nose revolvers, and that's what I carry. Fortunately for me, I'm on very good terms with plywood, so I don't worry about the greater penetration of the 9 mm. Ü But seriously, what many people fail to consider is that more penetration isn't nearly as important as enough penetration. Will .38 Special stop a threat? It would stop me. It worked for law enforcement for over 60 years. 38 Special will kill a person every bit as dead as 9 mm, 45 acp , or 20 mm cannon shells.

[@yurisierra9030]

Matthew Robinson 20mm will kill the soul 0_0

[@matthewrobinson4323]

😂

[@matthewrobinson4323]

So will 5 inch. 😄 _lh3.googleusercontent.com/IN3i5cZn_Lt4n4iQH_vhH1oUrGK9iVnjF8FDWnyADipWtLV3fSzMyjmACKe1eFK81AZNDKYtoLY_

[@oldcop18]

Well said. I was a cop for 30 years and had to defend myself three times w/my issued .38 revolver, it dropped the bad guy every time. It’s more about what you shoot the best as opposed to some of these silly caliber arguments.

[@60viking]

Mathew, i wish i could write like you. Right on!

[@jalbert222]

You state the obvious as profound. The reason people prefer a .38 SPCL revolver is not about power. It is about reliability. Inarguable. No smack and rack practices needed ;)

[@venomsmoke585]

Exactly!! Same too, the 9mm is 50-70 ft pounds and makes barely any difference in performance

[@mountainhobo]

"No smack and rack practices needed" -- I tell the semi lovers to try that smack and rack one-handed and tell me how it worked.

[@spencer9095]

not to mention concealability it doesnt print as much instead bulges which can wasily be mistaken for something else

[@JohnLloydScharf]

It is about power and performance. Number of Rounds To Incapacitate: 2.45 rounds-9mm Lugar 2.36 rounds-.40 S&W 2.20 rounds-.25 ACP 2.08 rounds-.45 ACP 1.86 rounds-.38 Special 1.76 rounds-.380 ACP 1.71 rounds-.44 Magnum 1.70 rounds-.357 Magnum or Sig 1.52 rounds-.32 1.40 rounds-typical center fire rifle 1.38 rounds-.22 LR, Long, or Short 1.22 rounds-typical Shotgun, 90% of which are 12 gauge Obviously, the fewer rounds it takes to incapacitate, the better. One-Shot-Stop Percentage 30%-.25 ACP 31%-.22 LR,Long,Short 34%-9mm Luger 39%-.38 Special 39%-.45 ACP 40%-32 Long, ACP 44%-.380 ACP 44%-.357 Magnum and Sig 45%-.40 S&W 58%-Rifle/All Centerfire 58%-Shotgun(All/90% 12 gauge) 59%-.44 Magnum Percentage of Hits Fatal: 21%-.32 LONG,ACP 24%-9mm Luger 25%-40 S&W 25%-.25 ACP 26%-.44 Magnum 29%-.380 ACP 29%-.38 Special 29%-.45 ACP 34%-.22 LR,LONG,SHORT 34%-.357 (Magnum & Sig) 65%-Shotgun(All/90% 12 gauge) 68%-Rifle(All Centerfire) Accuracy(Head/Torso hits) 62%-.25 ACP 74%-9mm Luger 76%-.22 Short/Long/LR 76%-.380 ACP 76%-.38 Special 76%-.40 S&W 78%-.32 Long/ACP 81%-.357 (Magnum/Sig) 81%-Rifle(Centerfire) 84%-Shortgun(90% 12 Gauge) 85%-.45 ACP 88%-.44 Magnum Percentage of People Not Incapacitated 40%-.32 Long, ACP 35%-.25 ACP 31%-.22 LR, Long, Short 17%-.38 Special 16%-.380 ACP 14%-.45 ACP 13%-9mm Lugar 13%-.40 S&W 13%-.44 Magnum 12%-Shotgun(All, 90% 12 Gauge 9%-.357(Magnum & Sig) 9%-Rifle(centerfire)

[@bydefault7795]

@@mountainhobo You can tap-rack-press with one hand if you've practiced it enough and wear the right shoes and belt.

[@josephhaack5711]

Mosin Nagant revolvers (Russia) the cylinder moves fwd when you pull the. Trigger , sealing the cyl. gap. Not made for suppressor use, (1897 service pistol).But some were modified (KGB etc) for a suppressor.

[@boli-5804]

i remember there was an article in (i think) Guns & Ammo, some 20 years ago, about how much energy loss this gap in revolvers causes. they used a 9mm Ruger P85 pistol and a Ruger Speed Six revolver, also in 9mm, and the two have almost identical distance from case base to the muzzle. the chronograph tests showed that there is more velocity difference between individual shots than between pistol and revolver.

[@LA_Commander]

The difference between the two rounds is very small. Shot placement and training and comfort with your chosen firearm are way more important factors. The bigger issue is are you more comfortable and do you shoot better with a revolver platform or a semi-auto? That you can only answer for yourself, there is no "one size fits all" for everyone. Both the 9mm and the 38 special have been used by law enforcement for daily carry and both are effective rounds. Ask any criminal he would not want to get shot by either one.

[@notmyrealname3462]

I've been around revolvers and revolver shooters my entire life and have never heard anyone making those arguments or "excuses". I have both, and there are a lot of things to like about revolvers- simple to operate, no magazine to lose or malf, don't have to chase down your brass. The ballistics and pressures are what they are, but the 38 special has nothing to prove, been around a long time, and is inherently accurate.

[@dj3114]

Factually, I can't argue with the logic as mathematical measurements don't show bias. That said, I still think a revolver is best for many people. No mag, no safety (other than 12 lb pull) . It's not a target gun, but neither is the Glock. I fee more confident that my bride has a 442 in that she does nothing but pull the trigger. (hope never) Let's be honest, just because the 9 is slightly more effective, the 38 is no slouch either. Well done on the video.

[@jamesb1856]

This is also a good representation of what you get when you choose one of these two rounds in terms of gun selection, especially for concealed carry. My solution and recommendation, being a free American, carry both.

[@Brett235]

At one time if you so desire.

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

Regarding the barrel lengths - revolver barrels are measured differently to pistol barrels. The length of a pistol barrel includes the chamber (which is integral to the barrel) whereas revolver barrels are measured as just the length of the actual barrel, not including the chamber (which is in the cylinder). It looks to me as though the actual barrels (minus the chambers) of those two guns are almost the same length as each other. They are certainly not different enough to cause a significant difference in velocity. I sometimes carry a .38 Special revolver, because depending on what I am wearing, the more organic shape of a revolver can be easier to conceal. I am not under any illusion that the 38 Special is equal to the 9mm I usually carry, but it's a tradeoff.

[@MrGibsonguy335]

Thank you for clearing that up. Now we all know what gun to carry to defend ourselves from plywood.

[@aaronkeener95]

Well just so you know. 9mm n 38spl both penetrate the same in my LCRs

[@drpkmurphy]

Interesting....I enjoyed this but the truth is 9 mm is about 50 or 60 ft lbs stronger then a .38 +P. The ballistic differences is in gel, and other target test is minimal. They are close brothers but the gap question is more complex. Yes the revolver gap loses a little pressure into the air, but the Semi auto loses some on top and efficiently uses it to chamber rounds, but the ballistic effect is about equal. The fired round losses about the same pressure in both. Revolver or Semi??? I think the best is really what people shoot better and train with. I carried both, but I learned on revolvers and have a love for them. The five rounds don’t bother me most encounters are 3 or less. 5 and a speed loader is plenty statistically. Bottom line ... 9 and .38 +p are so close it doesn’t make a difference but 9 is still a little more powerful.

[@MartyBCNB]

Ballistics By The Inch has some interesting data. Not sure of the accuracy but it seems to be done well and thought through.

[@radiohobbyist13]

I heard about some guy who got hit in the tip of his pinky finger with a 230 grain FMJ 45 ACP. The bullet actually picked him up and threw him twenty feet through a brick wall. But he was actually killed before he hit the wall. I read it on the internet so it must be true. 🤣

[@tacticalpickle7]

I have carried 45 acp, 40 cal, 9mm.... and now I carry .357 mag. ... they are all good rounds people. Just carry what makes you happy, what is comfortable for you. It's all about preference. My regular EDC is a .357 mag reasons why is because is also my hiking gun. ....I can go from 158 gr to 180gr...200gr bear loads..... yes bears here in ALASKA. .... here in my neck of the woods a revolver will go for hundreds more that a semi.. ... because of the versatility of the revolver ... you can still get 1400 fps on a 2 1/2 inch snub nose on .357. Also the.357 mag was developed for law enforcement, and it's still considered the number one (1 bullet man stopper ). But times change ..now high capacity is very much a necessary for law enforcement. Just ask yourselves when was the last time a criminal asked you what type of caliber you carry..... and based on your asnwer of caliber he was going to : robbed you, kill you, or just attach your family... no one likes to get shoot.... yes some rounds are more powerful that others. Just be happy. Practice carry every day and commit to your protection and by doing so you will protect your family as well. Times are changing fast the time to argue is over. Commit to your caliber. God bless. There is nothing wrong with your comparison. 9mm. ...38 special will do the job just fine.

[@jonslife3533]

I'm.going to point this out , real world , there's not much difference , both are quite effective , but for some folks like myself , that only have the proper use of one hand (poor motor function and very little grip strength), especially in cold , a revolver is much better

[@allanhart4115]

Thanks for the thoughts on this subject. My way of getting it done, is to carry both a M&P 9 compact w/ extened mag's & a LCR 9. Same ammo. I like the LCR because it doesn't throw brass all over the place and with moon clips easy reloading and clean up. But just wanted to to say thanks.

[@Prepare2Survive]

I've done velocity tests using a 16 inch 9mm carbine and 16 inch 38/357 mag carbine. I loaded both ammo with the exact same 125 grain hard cast lead powder coated bullet, same primers and 5 grains longshot powder. I got 1260 fps from the 9mm and 1031 fps from the 38 special. The larger case capacity and lower pressure of the 38 special is what makes it less efficient. Both of these guns did not have any cylinder gap to lose power so it's an accurate representation of the difference which is 22% more velocity with 9mm.

[@pukeschannel6882]

Why would you use the same powder for cartridges with different pressure limits and different case capacities.????..If you are trying to get the most out of each one,..your powder choices are going to be quite different. 9mm is around 35kpsi. I think the 38 is around 20kpsi. GEE...quite a bit of difference. More case space,.. and lower maximum pressure, dictates you probably want a slower powder in the 38 if you are trying to get the most out of it,...while you'll want a faster powder in the 9 since the case is very small and you have a higher pressure limit.

[@mikediodati1149]

I think you can get your point across without using “fanboy” and “stupidity”!

[@elblancobasura]

.38 Special=17,000 PSI, .38 Special +P=18,500 PSI 9mm.=35,000 PSI, 9mm. +P = 38,500 PSI Those are the raw numbers and there's very little getting around them.

[@nymeriagloves3957]

thats like saying 45acp is more powerful than a mild 45/70 load just because the pressure is higher. pressure by itself means nothing

[@elblancobasura]

Well then, if that smacks at your logic Mr. Spock, any test anywhere tells the tale. Obviously it's not like making a comparison of .45acp and 45/70 because any ding dong can see in any test anywhere the performance difference between the example you put forth. Perhaps it's simply that 9mm. is loaded with fairy dust and .38 Special with coal that makes the 9mm. perform better in most all ballistic aspects. Perhaps it's just a caliber conspiracy cooked up by Michael Bloomberg. Whatever the reason you think it is, whatever the reason you don't think it is, the results are available and indisputable. If you want to cite why a train does more damage to a vehicle laying across the tracks doing 30 mph versus a tractor trailer smacking the same vehicle at 80 mph, go right ahead. I'll stick with the comparison at hand however which just to refresh, is 9mm. and .38 Special.

[@nymeriagloves3957]

erm... i was implying that if 38 was compressed to 9mm case volume the pressure would be simmilar

[@TOBORE8THMAN]

Here's the hottest commercially available 9mm +P+ that you can purchase in a bullet weight that is similar to 38 Special +P Underwood 9mm +P+ 147 grain TMJ Muzzle Velocity: 1175 fps Muzzle Energy: 451 ft/lbs Underwood 38 Special +P 158 grain HC Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps Muzzle Energy: 555 ft/lbs These are raw numbers that you can't get around. 38 Special can crush the hottest 9mm...period

[@davidh9659]

Yeah, so you have one .38spl+P load that is in 9mm territory. And now go ahead and fire it from a 2.25" snub nose, to be comparable to the 4" semi test gun (where there is no 1.6" long cylinder to magically boost your barrel length), That magical number will drop to 400 ftlbs (real world data) or less. But at least with hard casts, you have absolutely no chance of overpenetration as compared to all those ineffective, modern 9mm bullet designs, right? :)

[@chingwaza]

someone sounds flustered xD hahaha

[@blackravisher]

The biggest difference between the 2 is which one would you trust in your pocket without a holster. That's why I love my 38 snub. It's so easy to carry. How many people have shot themselves with glocks?

[@oldcop18]

The point is either one is an equal fight stopper so the choice is one or the other depending on your comfort level w/a revolver or semi auto.

[@madmaxluciano5370]

The revolver he was talking about that can be suppressed is the Nagant Revolver M1 1895.

[@kenibnanak5554]

On paper yes, but in the real world when some folks tried it they found out the barrel cylinder gap was still there and the gun made bang just like there was no silencer there.

[@madmaxluciano5370]

Ken ibn Anak Right.

[@kermit4941]

Interesting and informative video. Personally I could not care less and I don't really know why anybody does? Does caliber really matter if you hit a vital organ? Does caliber really matter if you miss? 9 mm or 38 Special, it's going to really mess up somebody's day if they're hit with it.

[@LDmagnum]

Ive shot thousands of rounds through many firearms and i can say ive never personally seen a revolver “jam” or fail.... i cant say the same for semiautomatics, not knocking semiautos but ive seen people limp wrist them and i have seen failures due to ammo

[@GigachadAKM]

I have. When the ejector rod backs out, it will wedge the revolver shut.

[@breaux2806]

38 Special only produces 264 foot-pounds of force (147-grain bullet at 900 feet per second out of a 4-inch barrel), while standard pressure 9mm can produce 365 foot-pounds of force (124-grain bullet at 1,150 feet per second). This is 38.25% more energy at the muzzle in favor of the 9mm. My goal is to have an old S&W Model 36, 37, or 60 and have it converted to the cheaper 9mm so I don't have to buy 38 special just for one gun, I can just use what's in my other pistols and buy one type of ammo.

[@TheGunnyBadger03xx]

I'm an owner and lover of the G26 and 442. You were right about everything you said. I'm not offended and will continue to carry these and mind my own business. :D

[@TheGearTester]

I am so grateful for a reasonable comment on this video. A large number of people have responded negatively to the points I emphasized. Thanks for leaving a comment!!!

[@TheGunnyBadger03xx]

@@TheGearTester These weapons are tools. Not every situation calls for a hammer, not every situation calls for a screwdriver. They both have their places. You made that clear. I find it amusing that so many KZbin gun experts in the comments are so uptight. Can we all not just enjoy the 2nd Amendment and be glad that others are out there carrying? Wish you well!

[@TheBtborton]

Good Video, Thanks. The Russian pistol you refer to is a Nagant. M1985, It was a standard side arm of the Russian military for many years and was used by other Russian agencies until 2009. It has a gas seal that works by pushing the whole cylinder forward causing the recess in the cylinder to seat against the barrel. Chambered in 7.62x38R. They are available in the C&R category for around $300.00.

[@smokemg42]

1:58 wrong, I'm guessing you are talking about the 1895 Nagant Revolver, it wasn't designed to mount a suppressor that was later on after the war that because it utilizes that gas seal feature that it can be suppressed, I believe the reason why the Russians went that route was to get more velocity out of the specially designed cartridge.

[@motorradmike]

Exactly. The cylinder actually moved forward to the forcing cone when pulling the trigger to provide a tighter gas seal. Quite an amazing design actually.

[@aaronkeener95]

Just u know, almost the same isn't the same thing. There is a different

[@What-is-happening]

500 S&W is more powerful than 22 LR I don’t want to be shot with either. The minor difference between 9mm and .38spl+p is meaningless.

[@joepoole4922]

yes

[@Ds_Drums]

Both calibers and platforms have their place. Both great rounds. Knowledge is powerful and then let people decide for themselves. Plenty of situations quelled with both calibers and platforms. Main thing ... carry what we shoot well and are "comfortable" with.

[@30caliberliberty60]

may you please show the differences of pocket and iwb carrying between the g26 and sw 642 bc I always hear ppl state that the 642 is more concealable.

[@Defender78]

I own a Wesson 649 (steel 357) and a Wesson 438 (tin can .38), and yes semi-autos outclass them in *almost* every category. Let's be real about 38 v 9!

[@Rnemhrd]

Seen chronograph testing. 9mm ruger LCR and sub compact 9 with the same barrel length. The difference is the same as the difference from one shot to the next. Paul Harrell did the test. He's legit and documents the whole process. Cylinder gap unless excessive doesn't make much difference.

[@SCAW1972]

First off a .357 beats a 9mm AND gives you the option of shooting 38 special--more versatility. Secndly, it's not as if 38 special is ineffective. Statitically and realistically, a 38 special will kill you as dead as 9mm...and WITHOUT as much concern for over-penetration. And dismissing testing a 9mm revolver vs a 9mm pistol, makes it obvious you have no interest in fairness. Mind you I don't even own a 357 or 38 special and am a fan of 9mm. I just know that statistically speaking, most encounters end in less than 3 shots fired and even though, according to a 10 year study, 9mm has been involved in more encounters (more than twice as many), fatalities by handgun caliber are 24% 9mm vs 29% for 38 special.

[@billyrose1806]

Numbers are numbers but a larger bullet will damage more tissue so .38 might not penetrate plywood but human tissue isnt plywood. I would feel safe using either gun but still prefer a 9mm for cheap ammo and more rounds and better concealment .

[@ZFlyingVLover]

Shot placement is what matters and that is directly related to managed recoil. Not all 9mms are created equal either. imho the M&P 2.0 subcompact is the perfect gun. Small, softshooting and twice the capacity of a revolver. If for whatever reason you need to be able to shoot at some distance then put a red dot on it. Finally, if you have a problem racking the slide THEN stick with a revolver , i.e. 38 spl, and put buffalo bore 38 spl +P in it and make sure that you can easily handle the recoil and be accurate. If the recoil is pleasant then you will practice and practice makes perfect. revolver or semi auto.

[@jonnofiddle]

The “smooth part” is called a chamber- yes, the revolver cylinder is a set of chambers. Not the best for harnessing all the energy, but it is what it is…

[@TDFlorida]

What gun jams more?

[@gunmonkey6545]

I don’t believe that I saw your first video but I understand your frustration at nonsensical comments. My dad was given a G19 and he refused to use it because he believes that the 9mm round was woefully inadequate compared to his J frame 38 sp. I tried to convince him otherwise but he just wouldn’t listen. The funny thing is that I carry a J frame every day and I love it but I also understand ballistics. I will continue to carry it because I shoot it every week and it’s incredibly comfortable to carry and I am not going to change. I honestly think people sometimes just argue with data because they have nothing better to do. The same people arguing about this will turn around and argue that a revolver is outdated technology and that you must carry a G17 with a light and a red dot or your don’t love your family. 😀

[@LVLouisCyphre]

I'm a CCW instructor. I agree with your analysis of revolver vs. semi-auto within the context of this video. Do the math and the measurements, the science is there which you pointed out.

[@joepoole4922]

that criminal u just killed what dtd u killme with ?

[@LVLouisCyphre]

@@joepoole4922 There's a retired AZ CCW instructor who carries a pair of J-frames behind each hip who was taught by the late Jim Cirillo. Many of the old school revolver masters will clean someone's clock. However, with respect to bullet performance, 9x19mm has .38 special beat every time. However, not to say that someone who trains with .38 special won't be deadly with it. Remember what Bernie Goetz did with his J-frame. He neutralized four subjects on a NY subway.

[@joepoole4922]

@@LVLouisCyphre Chances are we will never need to shoot anyone in our lifetime

[@LVLouisCyphre]

@@joepoole4922 However, I'm not going to chance it. I was in bail enforcement (1993-5). I have about a dozen former customers of mine that are still alive that want to see me dead along with their associates. Unfortunately I don't qualify for LEOSA/HR218 so I have to maintain CCWs that are honored in the States I travel to or through.

[@Villain_Actual]

I agree with everything you’ve stated in this video however I don’t think standard pressure 9mm vs standard pressure 38 spl is fair; SAAMI specs treat 38 spl as if it were still loaded with black powder like it originally was, if you properly load a 38 spl (I.e. buy good +p rounds it would be more accurate) some people will say if you’re using 38 +p it should be against 9mm +p, but if you look at what people carry in each of the calibers most often people will carry 9mm standard pressure or 38 +p. That being said even with plus p 38’s you’re still not going to beat 9mm in most cases.

[@cameronizatt7480]

Do you shoot a lot of plywood in real life? What is your basis for measuring power by shooting plywood? It seems to me that you fit the test to suit your desired outcome.

[@LeadTheBore]

Both are great cartridges. Both have an EXCELLENT track record in the field. Both are excellent choices. As far as 9x19 being "more powerful" than .38 Special, I find it akin to the 10mm people equating their 10mm with a .41 Mag. NO. Light .41 mag and maxed out 10mm shake hands at a useful level, beyond that the autoloader cartridge is a pipsqueak in comparison. Either way, carry what you shoot best. Double action revolvers are still perfectly viable options for carry.

[@kylewood8327]

You’re not comparing guns you’re comparing calibers! So compare both calibers out of a revolver and see which is better. Seems logical to me. Your comparison and description of both guns is spot on and excellently layed out! Personally, I really like both types of firearms (and own both) but prefer revolvers probably because there simplistic function and nostalgic beauty! And the fact I don’t live on the south side of Chicago, so threats aren’t that prevalent.

[@marcusfry178]

Just a few points. There was no mention that the Glock uses polyglonal rifling, which gives a slight velocity boost over the more common land and groove rifling (J-frame). Not a big deal, but about as much as one would expect from not having cylinder gap. And I find it hard to believe (which is the basis for your review) that there are many who claim .38 special is as strong, even in +P, or stronger than 9mm. Switch to decaf.

[@johngonzalez5593]

Just use the 38 super if you want a more powerful 38.

[@donrondemarco7556]

The Model 10 S&W was THE MOST prolific handgun of the twentieth century. Nothing else needs to be said.

[@peasantrobot]

So, based on what you said, the only correct evaluation is to shoot them from a bolt rifle at least... Because otherwise is just about pistol versus revolver... where the revolver has that permanent handicap.

[@JimLBon]

People in your .38 vs 9mm whining about the G26 vs J frame are impossibly nit-picky. Totally fair comparison as far as the guns go.

[@dzoinc1555]

There are positives to carrying a small revolver, but none of them are related to a regular .38 being better than a 9mm and the positive don't outweigh the compared negatives.

[@DingoDawg64]

Wow, this is old now. I didn't go back and re-watch the original, but if I recall correctly the only concern I had was that the 9mm fired a round tip and the .38s fired a flat tip. Not a lot of difference really, but then I've never had to defend myself from multiple layers of plywood so...

[@itmeng]

Both cartridges took a many bad guys. The 38 was used by the air force up until the beretta 92 was selected by the trials. For me the shear convenience of of the j Frame is king. Don’t have to worry about magazine springs failing, or other semi auto issues. Sure revolvers have problems but no where near the magnitude than thoes of semi autos.

[@luistapia1942]

What do you think of 9mm revolvers?

[@agentboogerone]

My wife doesn`t care about size ,she said it just depends on how you use it.

[@arvidlystnur4827]

A lot of egos out there. I’m just looking for the truth and or science. It makes sense what you’re saying about measuring the barrel from the rim or tip of the bullet, to the end of the barrel. Here’s what I’m pondering. With equal grain weight between 9 mm and 38 spec, with the larger shell of the 38 spec, able to load more powder, why wouldn’t the 38 special be more powerful, even with the gap? Is the gap the sole answer? Is the production of 38 spec inferior? Further edit within minutes of writing my question. I’ve just read and article on why 38 spec caliber has less pressure than 9 mm. 38 was invented before smokeless powder was developed so the shells apparently cannot withstand a higher pressure. If they were made to produce higher pressure, the barrel of the gun might not be able to withstand.

[@m1951-j2u]

Snubnose revolvers would make a great backup for your primary ccw, not a great primary ccw though

[@ArturoGarzaID]

Both of them will mess you up so does it really matter?

[@eugenelane3291]

How about just doing your comparison on 2 lcrs one in 38 and one in 9. But the truth of the matter is 9 is more powerful than a 38s. Ive always thought they should shorten the 38 casing but reformulate the powder to maintain the same pressures of a 38s. It would make the ammo cheaper, lighter and hence easier to carry. No reason the casing should be so long.

[@wooddawg4868]

I can tell you 38 special plus p plus are a beast.

[@williamryan7403]

Stupidity is someone claiming 38 special won't get the job done.

[@UncleFungusSus]

i agree, and I never saw or shot a revolver that had a malfunction. semi's do get malfunctions which can get you killed in a self defense situation.

[@nurpperpony3790]

Bet that if the 9mm semi and the revolver in 38 both had 4 inch barrels that the story would change. I think 9mm is a little more effective in tiny semis than the 38 is in tiny revolvers. But you can definitely find hotter loaded 38spls that when given enough barrel length would easily put perform a 9mm of the same longer barrel length.

[@davidguilbert7666]

Try testing a ruger lcr 9mm vs a ruger 38 ruger lcr

[@nuclearthreat545]

38 wont jam

[@TheGearTester]

Congratulations you are incorrect! The recoil sometimes causes the bullet in a cartridge to slid forward impeding the ability of a revolvers cylinder to rotate.

[@G19Jeeper]

Thats like saying Premium fuel wont fail. Its not a valid argument. .38 is a caliber, first off, not a cartridge, nor a specific firearm or type of firearm. when referring to the .38 Special cartridge, it is important to denote it as such because the .38 Special and 9mm both use very similar diameter bullets. Further more, when a revolver malfunctions, such as cylinder lock or the failure of the cylinder timing/locking block itself, it is a much more complicated process to fix.

[@maxwellmortimermontoure7274]

And glocks will? I would rather clear a jam in an auto than a revolver.

[@Cyberpunk-de7su]

Say what you want you revolver haters but the odds of a revolver jamming is about 500,000 to 1 where as a semi automatic's odds of jamming is about 100 to 1. Put that on the scales of justice and you tell me which is more practical to carry.

[@JohnW-yv6yp]

@Cyberpunk101 1991 Where the hell did you get those statistics? That’s ridiculous? Do revolvers jam a little less often then semi atuos? Yeah. But when they do jam, they’re usually fucked, to the point you’ll need some gunsmith knowledge, tools and a good bit of time, where as semi auto malfunctions are easy to clear.

[@Darthvaporapex]

They are very obviously not the same size or weight. Secondly, it’s true that if you are comparing the ballistics of the caliber then it should be through the same length barrel. Not action.

[@Darthvaporapex]

There is an easy way to compare them with out trying to do mental gymnastics. Just weigh them. Obviously they are not the same function of weapons.

[@nachos60]

Thats why i carry .357 when choose to carry a revolver. Good vid. Sometimes it's impossible to get thru to some people.

[@clayaustin9339]

If you will look up some old historical data (long before SAAMI, and mfgrs, de-rated ammo. and started calling standard ammo +P,) you will find that the power available from 9mm vs. 38 special,..was nearly the same...with the exception that there were much heavier bullets available for the 38 special. I shoot both (neither for self protection), so I don't have a pony in this race. So,..the real question (if you load your own) is: are guns weaker today than they were 50 to 70 yrs. ago.

[@joepoole4922]

Whats your point , when it comes to killing

[@ChrisHirner]

I was really surprised at the power of the 38 special. dont let the 17000 psi fool ya it does just fine. Shoot steel for a while with your 9 then get out the 38 and you wont notice as much difference as ya think.

[@surgeonwithagun6793]

There are Pros and Cons in the "Revolver vs Semiauto" debate. You pick the one that works for you. The power of the cartridge is kinda meaningless though. It assumes all carry revolvers are 38 Special and targeting trumps power in almost all cases anyway.

[@AB-lx8cf]

Question is this, everyone talks stopping power, power etc. Here's the deal. If facing the barrel of a gun. What caliber would you rather be shot with. 9mm, 357, 45, 38spl, 22lr, 40? On the receiving end of a bullet, any reasonable person would just not want to be shot. Do your part as a defender. Train to hit vitals. Shoot the hip, solar plexus, groin. Forget all the dumb caliber argument. I work in the ER, and trust me. All men die from all calibers.

[@johnniewalner]

To be fair your glock barrel is longer and it has a hex stamped barrel upping the fps and pressure leaving the barrel try it with a traditional 9mm with traditional rifling because they have two very different barrels and glock has alot going for them that's why I own a couple but yea try the test again with a lc9 or somthing up against the smith

[@davidnapierala605]

Good Lord you need to get a life! People, carry what you want. No gun is perfect. They are all mechanical devices that can and do fail. Revolvers can jam up so hard that the cylinder can only be "unlocked" by a gunsmith making it useless in a self defense scenario and auto loaders can have type whatever malfunctions. I carry a j frame because it carrys most comfortable for me. I don't give a crap about 9mm vs 38 because they'll both stop an attacker. Yes, i know I only have 5 rounds but I'm ok with that. I'm a private citizen not a cop and don't feel I need 15 rounds but if you feel that need then fine. Carry what suits you the best. Trust me a .38 will stop a threat. Just ask the thousands of dudes that have been killed by .38 special rounds. Oh wait, you cant....cause they're dead!

[@GunSam]

.38 Special actually is as powerful as 9mm and can exceed it. The problem is that most modern .38 special ammo is downloaded to accommodate older .38 special revolvers. Yes one can argue that this effectively puts the 9mm above the power level of a .38 special, but the blanket statement that a 9mm is simply more powerful is not accurate. The cylinder gap on a revolver makes that particular cartridge being fired through it lose about 5% of it's potential velocity, but for the guys that argue that the revolver is robbing the .38 special's power, I can understand their point if we are talking about a cartridge to cartridge comparison alone, however like how the power levels being where they are in most .38 special ammo effectively makes it less powerful than a 9mm, most .38 special chambered guns are indeed revolvers which effectively makes the cylinder gap issue a moot point. Another point to be made is bullet weight. An average 158 grain .38 special+P round at 900 fps in a snubby vs an average 115 gr 9mm round in a G26 at 1,050 fps, the 9mm and .38+P effectively have the same energy, however the .38 special has more momentum. Yes, the old .45 ACP vs. 9mm momentum debate also exists between .38 special and 9mm! With more momentum you will see more penetration in flesh, especially very fleshy big mammals, including two legged ones.

[@JohnLloydScharf]

CENTERFIRE SAAMI [& QuickLOAD software]SAYS 9mm Luger +P 115 grains @ 1210 fps = 374 ft/lbs 35,000 PSI .38 Special+P158 grains @ 1050 fps = 387 ft/lbs 17,500 PSI .327Fed.Mag.*115 grains @ 1535 fps = 602 ft/lbs 45,000 PSI .357 Magnum 125 grains @ 1875 fps = 796 ft/lbs 35,000 PSI

[@JohnLloydScharf]

9mm Luger +P+ 115gr. Sporting Jacketed Hollow Point Hunting & Self Defense Ammo Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs) : 501 .38 Special +P 158gr. Keith Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs) : 548

[@tobyr5627]

A citizen carrying a 38 special round is better defended than someone carrying nothing.

[@calvinm3538]

also a citizen carrying a 22lr round is better protected than someone carrying nothing

[@jeffreyfawver9436]

thank you for doing this test .own both guns. good job!

[@followingjesus2064]

You did a study,your study was conclusive for you.who cares what other people say! Keep on keeping on!

[@glennsammon4465]

9mm is NOT more powerful than the 38 special. you can get buffalo bore and cor bon and underwood ammo that rivals the 357 mag ( loads like that is how we got the 357 mag back in 1935) , but the recoil is gonna be intense from a little gun like that.

[@aaronkeener95]

You seem upset, you shouldn't be making videos if you can't handle the comments

[@TOBORE8THMAN]

I agree. 9mm is NOT more powerful than 38 Special. The 38 Special cartridge was the basis for Elmer Keith to develop the .357 Magnum. 38 Special in +P loads can crush even the most "powerful" 9mm +p+ loads. See, it's more about demographics now. People like to carry cheap plastic pistols now and don't like recoil associated with more powerful revolver rounds. People like to justify their compromises.

[@TheGearTester]

You are so full of BS. Look at the numbers 9mm is defiantly more powerful than .38 Special.

[@brianbuchert6382]

I like both but too much data supports 9mm as a more powerful round

[@AlbertoJorgeSoares]

Man, why did you wanted to give an explanation about that...? Everybody knows the 9mm is a high velocity cartridge while the .38 is a medium one, operating at different pressures. And there're revolvers chambered in both 9mm & .38spl, if somebody wants to clarify his mind.

[@duanescarborough8297]

Thanks for a good video comment. I have a S&W 642, which I love BTW. I also have a Springfield Armory 3.8 " XDM 9mm compact. Yeah, the 642 IS a good bit smaller for concealed carry. I like them both ! However, one carries 5 rounds, and the other carries 13+1. Guess which is my preferred carry. ?

[@jamescarne2599]

I'll take the Jframe over the auto! The 38 special has plenty of stopping power for any 2 legged critter.

[@joepoole4922]

At three ft. , don`t make a lot of difference

[@ThatMagaLife]

What if you put the 38 special in a firearm with similar barrel length? Bet that would make a big difference. Yes, nobody buys .38 special revolvers with, lets say, 4 inch barrel, but it would be more fair. 3.6 whatever

[@miked8009]

TheBodyOfChrist if you measure from the cylinder where the bullet begins and you measure where the bullet begins on the semi auto they were the same

[@rey6206]

Maybe compare it using SW Model 52 .38 special semi auto pistol, might be better comparison

[@a.N.....]

the statics between the two are statistically negligible

[@itmeng]

The FBI load 158 grain LSWCHP +p took down quite a few bad guys coming out of detectives snubs.

[@maxwellmortimermontoure7274]

You are awesome, I love revolvers but I trust my life to autos

[@marshalltrucker1856]

I think people who insist on semi autos do so because they can't shoot for shit and need the extra ammo.

[@MOMOMOMOMOMOMOMOM]

This gap is nothing, S&W designed revolver for a long long time until now their revolver still hv that gap, so the gap is nothing.

[@joepoole4922]

that gap of three feet versus twenty feet makes the difference

[@joesmith9220]

While I totally agree with you, what you could do to put the 38 spec. vs 9mm to rest is simple. Use a revolver of the same barrel length chambered in 9mm. Then the "Revolver fan boys" couldn't complain about the Cylinder Gap. Better yet, use a revolver like a Ruger black hawk convertible. I know that they make a 357 mag with a 9mm cylinder as an option. Just remember that you can't please everyone. That's why there are companies making semi-autos, and some making revolvers and some making both. That's why some make large framed hand guns and some make small framed ones. well you get the picture. :-)

[@adamabate3423]

From my prospective, a case stays in- unlike in pistols!