this battle was horrifying

Check out the video Vaush is reacting to and support the channel here if you'd like:
• Desert Storm - The Gro...
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[@EVMjimmy]

I'm 20, my grandfather was among the first to land during desert Storm, he's almost 60, kind of crazy that this was over 30 years ago, but still doesn't feel that long ago

[@Luigi_Mario_1997]

Because of the 90s-2000s technological and cultural overlap.

[@jamesknight1587]

I’m 20 too. I mean before the 2003 Iraq war that was the view of American power, before we we’re trapped in the Middle East for 20 years. Feels like we’ve always known about this war but feels forgotten like the Korean War because it was so short and as you said nearly 30 years ago.

[@nychris2258]

You're 20 and your grandpa isnt 60 yet? Damn, babies havin babies over there is a generational tradition huh?

[@dzhang4459]

​@@nychris2258 You do know that you two sets of grandparents, right? And that couples often have an age disparity?

[@Special_Agent_NSB]

I’m 30 and my grandfather fought the Nazis in the Battle of the Bulge. The passage of time and generational shift is indeed weird.

[@DrHotWarLove]

Saddam thought that to become a U.S. Marine, you had to kill a family member. Which really makes me wonder how many uncles I actually had before my dad went to Paris Island.

[@Alexander-cg1ey]

*hint* he killed more than just one

[@lavellelee5734]

Why would he think that?😅

[@christopherjustice6411]

We weren't fucking around in the First Gulf War. We didn't want a long conventional war. We sure as hell didn't want another Vietnam. We just wanted the Iraqis out of Kuwait as quickly as possible. Boy, did we ever succeed at that. Also, the Iraqis were using Soviet Doctrine and Soviet equipment. Take from that what you will.

[@atlantiswolf]

What exactly was the Soviet Ground Docrtine at the time? I'm more familiar with their Air Doctrine of intercepting aerial bombers.

[@alexhouseman5820]

@@atlantiswolf the Soviet doctrine of the time was to implode in on oneself lol

[@pessimisticnihilist3691]

@@alexhouseman5820 So it hasn't changed?

[@anthonyrowland9072]

iraq really didn't have bad tanks, late t72 or locally upgraded lion of babylon versions, were on par with the m60 we still had in service there. they were just outmatched tactically and fighting from entrenched areas in antiquated tactics. they couldn't point their guns down far enough so had to expose their most vulnerable areas to fire. also, completely one sided air support...

[@alexhouseman5820]

@@pessimisticnihilist3691 yeah lol

[@parkerhuff9995]

One of the biggest live fire exercises in us military history

[@MegaBanne]

lol

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

Also, the US dumping their whole stockpile because the USSR just collapsed

[@Delicious_Oreoz]

Biggest oh shit we can try out all this gear moment.

[@falconeshield]

@@aaroncabatingan5238 Blue balled for 40 years

[@tomnaughton]

@@Delicious_Oreoz as George Carlin once said, it was a “go play with our toys in the sand” moment lol

[@sigmascrub]

I knew this war was one-sided but holy shit. This is like a UFC heavyweight champion taking on a toddler. Iraq could have every great general in history against the coalition forces' guy who played Starcraft that one time and still lose.

[@BigmanDogs]

Replace starcraft with hearts of iron 4 🤣

[@TheMisterGuy]

The Starcraft comparison is really good. This is what it would look like if you had a "30 minutes no attack" rule but one side could make expansions and the other couldn't. The really horrifying thing about Starcraft is when you realize the real world is like Starcraft but with hundreds of players and the game doesn't end. You get these massive forces that can crush a nation at a whim, but then there's no reset back to equal footing.

[@basedeltazero714]

This is probably true... but mostly speaks to the overall doctrinal differences between modern integrated warfare and the... peculiar style common to the middle east. There's a sort of meme that Arab countries are notoriously terrible at war, but of course it's not because they're Arab. It's because most armies in the region are meant primarily to preserve the power of the state against its people, which means they don't generally *need* to be terribly effective in a high intensity conflict, and indeed, if they *were*, that would create a risk of overthrowing the government. For that reason, initiative and drive are discouraged, as well as a deliberate hindrance of the ease of communication. This makes it less likely than an ambitious general will attempt a coup, you see. Furthermore the military is subdivided into numerous competing factions, further discouraging the threat of uprising because then they'd all be worried about each other. At the same time the equipment cannot be too sophisticated because sophisticated weapons require at least a somewhat educated populace and education is both hard and scary to authoritarians. The US military is... not like that. An almost obsessive focus is placed on coordination and initiative, on being able to act decisively in a moment. There is a great deal of not only vertical but also horizontal communication between elements. Technical sophistication is, likewise, an almost obsessive goal. US equipment is neither cheap nor simple, but it is also not actually orders of magnitude more capable than Soviet equipment in terms of 'raw performance': Firepower, armor, etc. Where it does have a significant advantage is technically - sensors, communication, etc. This also extends to training and doctrine, US forces are expected to be able to accomplish general objectives even in absence of higher command, to take action on a unit-by-unit basis, which of course necessitates some level of understanding of the overall goal, but drastically increases operational tempo. They are not only highly effective at reducing enemy command and control abilities but also redundant in regards to their own. So the whole 'Iraq could have every great general in history against the Coalition guy who played starcraft that one time and still lose', yeah. But that's not so much because of the material superiority of the coalition (which is non-trivial, but like... even the US generals expected an actual fight), but because the Iraq side works to mitigate the advantage of good leadership and the Coalition side to mitigate the disadvantage of bad leadership.

[@override367]

imagine being the Iraqis prepared for a fucking protracted trench war and the coalition just drives over you with bulldozers, fills your trenches in, and keeps going

[@pissfather6798]

id recommend to look up stuff about the Iran-Iraq war, since it sheds some light on the many shortcomings and just general insane decision making of the Iraqi military. its also a more fair comparative framework since it was a peer to peer conflict. in short lower ranking soldiers were barely trained and pretty much every officer was only concerned with loyalty to the regime at all times instead of actually being good commanders. any perceived "disloyalty" would see them at best demoted and at worst often straight up tortured and executed. to be promoted it was the same, not on merit but connections. equipment wise they were with Isreal the prime military in the middle east, but their command structure was an utter sham.

[@atlantiswolf]

If memory serves, the reason HW Bush let Sadaam stay in power WAS indeed because he feared the region getting destabilized in his absence and was worried about the region being torn apart by sectarianism and religious violence kinda like Yugoslavia after it disintegrated. Funnily enough these opinions of his were, apart from proven correct a decade later, due to his experience working in the CIA of all places.

[@seanbeadles7421]

I mean HW was the best (at understanding the world) foreign policy president we’ve had since like… Kennedy? Nixon?

[@Ornolu1337]

Desert Storm was a 1 sided ass kicking BUT it wasn’t as inevitable as this makes it seem. Schwarzkopf was a god damn genius. He and his staff pulled off wild feats of sneaky ass logistics to get those armored divisions way out into the desert where saddam didn’t expect them to be We were outnumbered and a less bigbrain attack could easily have bogged down part way into Kuwait

[@fuckoff4705]

its not really logistics that got the tanks in the desert its that the coalition forces had GPS integrated into their battle management systems so they always knew where they were, the iraqis had to follow roads. in this example but also in the rest of your message you understate just how large of a technological gap there is between the west and anyone else.

[@Alexander-cg1ey]

They actually blasted Ride of the Valkyries during that assault.

[@falconeshield]

Can you blame them?

[@Alexander-cg1ey]

@@falconeshield Nah not really. It's by far one of the most justifiable things the US military has done in recent decades

[@Low_Fidelity_3D]

Based

[@alejandrochalco6893]

@@Alexander-cg1eyprobably one of the few things, honestly you could count them with one hand……and you would still have fingers

[@hughjass69933]

My uncle and biological father were both Marines in Desert Storm and never told me much about what happened over there, but they both got Gulf War Syndrome unfortunately. They were exposed to the oil burning in the sky for weeks and ordered to take pills without knowing what they were.

[@jloiben12]

If an army doesn’t surrender and they are retreating, chasing them down is an appropriate response

[@danieltobin4498]

Yea, we did the same thing to the Nazis in WW2. The Falaise Pocket is an example of that

[@rockmycd1319]

Yeah, and firing on them isn’t a war crime. Chasing down and destroying a retreating force is a key part of Soviet deep battle as well.

[@maccoat]

That is the very reason why cavalry existed since the dawn of war. To chase down the enemy combatant.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

@@maccoat yep - and why aristocrats like fox hunting so much; it's good training for chasing down and killing the peasants on the other side once they're routed.

[@Alexander-cg1ey]

@@maccoat That is until cavalry was became more advanced than a guy with a horse and a spear

[@isaacnolastname5802]

The operations room is high quality content with no politics, just facts and analysis. Highly recommend for anybody who wants to learn about what combat and war actually looks from a strategic and tactical perspective

[@dustypluskrat7423]

womp womp, get rumbled stay humble

[@gandalfos]

this war is one of the best examples of good american interventionism. iraq invaded kuwait and america utterly destroyed their army to liberate it and send a message to other dictators with desires of expansionism. it doesn't matter why bush chose to do it (i think it's obvious economics was a big part of it), since at the end of the day good was accomplished and that's just respectable

[@cobraglatiator]

from what i remember, or i remember hearing that kuwait actually snatched up iraqi oil fields, iraq went in to take them back then we were like "WOOAH!! hey you can't do that! fuck off!" but, coulda been BS.

[@bronzebackbassing18]

@@cobraglatiator yeah I think the only ones who said that was Iraq, also iraq never considered Kuwait an independent country but rather a part of iraq, kinda like with the current conflict between Ukraine and Russia

[@cobraglatiator]

@@bronzebackbassing18 ah. i see. so it was bs then?

[@fathel9221]

The US bombed Iraq's infrastructure to the ground and nearly induced famine with sanctions.

[@honorablegigachad6946]

good american interventionism is an oxymoron

[@thcrimsnfckr666]

As fucked as the US Iraq was I'd rather fight there on any side before fighting in the Iran-Iraq war

[@AlternisLiz]

Nice icon. Slayer kicks ass

[@pissfather6798]

not to keen on suicidal human wave assaults into gas attacks huh?

[@kkimberling]

Slayer does indeed kick ass

[@jloiben12]

People forget, war and military occupation are not the same thing. We are impressively good at war. We just can’t do military occupations, at least this side of 1951. And that is very embarrassing. Our senior leadership since then have either BEEN ALIVE or WERE ONE GENERATION REMOVED FROM when we conducted one of the handful of uncategorically successful military occupations in the history of the world. It is honestly almost as impressive as our ability to war

[@rockmycd1319]

It depends, because the US occupation of Germany and Japan were successful. The thing is that with those two, the US didn’t attempt to satellize the states like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan.

[@jloiben12]

@@rockmycd1319 First, only part of the country of Germany was occupied by us. How can you say an occupation is successful when half the country is a hellhole. Second, you are proving my point. We went in to do an occupation with bad goals that are not likely to lead to good outcomes. I’d argue Japan is currently far more of a satellite state for us then Iraq or Afghanistan too so even if that’s what we were supposed to get as an outcome, that is still no excuse

[@rockmycd1319]

@@jloiben12 Germany was primarily rebuilt with American aid (as well as their own domestic economic reforms), so even if the US occupied the parts of Germany not handled by the Soviets not much would have changed. And yes, half the country was a hellhole; that half being the Soviet zone that was to effectively become an SSR along with the rest of the Eastern Europe, such a measure backfiring on them in 1953. And to say that Japan is a satellite state at all, let alone more so than Afghanistan and Iraq was, is laughable. Japan is in no way economically or politically dependent on the US. They're a powerhouse on the technological and automobile front, and have a stable political system not being propped up by the US. The same can't be said for Afghanistan, which had to be funneled with a trillion dollars of aid and an occupation to keep away an insurgency and maintain an unstable government and Iraq which was to maintain a similar level of dependency until sectarian violence in the Iraqi Civil War preceded withdrawal in 2011, having seen Iraq as too unstable to be an effective stronghold.

[@skiracerray]

I know you’ll never see this, but the reason we let him live was because “we would become an occupying force in a deeply hostile land”. Bush SR.’s Secretary of Defense’s words would go down in history as the most accurate prediction ever made.

[@alcaponefan1]

Wasn't his Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney?

[@Pretermit_Sound]

@@alcaponefan1yep. And George Jr had Rumsfeld.

[@PabloVelasco-hr3ko]

@@Pretermit_Sound wrong order, Rumsfiel was SR, Cheney was Jr

[@Pretermit_Sound]

@@PabloVelasco-hr3ko George W had Rumsfeld as secretary of defense, and George HW had Cheney as secretary of defense. That’s the correct order, which is what my original comment was trying to convey

[@DJchilcott]

Your pointing out the fact that these conflicts are taking place in the area of some of the oldest civilisations known to humanity makes me think about the risk to cultural and archeological artifacts such conflicts create.

[@ByzantineDarkwraith]

In 2003 in the chaos of the invasion a huge amount of artifacts from the Iraqi national museum were destroyed and/or potentially lost forever, likely including the famous so-called “Baghdad battery” from the Parthian era, and countless other priceless pieces of human history.

[@DJchilcott]

@@ByzantineDarkwraith Is a reckless disregard for cultural artefacts during an invasion considered a war crime?

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

@@DJchilcott Soldiers gunning down citizens even if they're looting stuff is a war crime too. It was the Iraqi authorities who were supposed to be responsible for protecting their artifacts, instead they were the ones who sold it off

[@officechairpotato]

One of the crimes Saddam was charged over was his destruction of sites deemed "The heritage of mankind". He destroyed one of the oldest zigarruts in the world in order to build an airfield near it, as one example. The Saddam line mentioned here disturbed ancient sites as well. He wasn't convicted of it because they decided to speed things up and after he was convicted of 148 murders (A single incident), decided there was no point in continuing the trial and sentenced him to death by hanging. "conviction for the illegal killings of 148 Shi'ites in the town of Dujail in 1982."

[@happyjohn354]

ISIS intentionally destroys ancient ruins and artifacts all the time.

[@punishedmisty]

this would be the last war the WW2 Era Battleships where used. Iowa Class Missouri and Wisconsin Fired on Iraqi positions and were decommissioned right after the war

[@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug]

Are you sure the Russians haven't tried busting out some WW2 era battleships against Ukraine? Also, hasn't North Korea fire upon ships using WW2 era battleships which were gifted by the soviets?

[@punishedmisty]

@@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug the last Russian built battleships, Sovetskty Soyuz class, were scraped in 1940 mid production. The last battleship they had was the Italian Giullio Cesare which was given for war reparations and scraped in 1957. The oldest North Korean ships is a fugas class mine sweeper that was built in the 30's. Rest of the NK fleet are old 70's soviet frigates

[@punishedmisty]

Soviets never really had a battleship program after the revolution. They are mostly known for submarines

[@nanowithbeans2511]

If russia did this it would have been a disaster, this continental war proves that America's logistics is INSANE! They are able to maintain such a large force and danger is always on the wall yet somehow they were able to pull the operation off with extreme precision and improvisation. And do it on the other side of the globe. Also side tangent: I am still salty over an A-10 warthog committing a blue on blue on a british light recon just because it did not have a radar.

[@blackmesa232323]

Pretty crazy how useless the A10 is. Gun's highly inaccurate, it has piss poor awareness, super suseptible to SAMs and shoulder mounted rockets. The F-111 got more confirmed kills with half the sorties. The A10 also has the honor of being the aircraft with the most Blue on Blue incidents of any US ground attack aircraft in the last 50 years. To the point the British asked the US to stop using it in Afghanistan due to the sheer number of times British soldiers and vehicles were accidentally hit by A10 pilots.

[@rockmycd1319]

The US is horrendous at dealing with insurgencies, but when it comes to conventional warfare they are ten thousand leagues above everyone else.

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

@@rockmycd1319 To be fair, everybody is horrible in dealing with insurgencies. Even the Taliban is bad at it

[@rockmycd1319]

@@aaroncabatingan5238 The Taliban sucks at it because they're dealing with a desertion crisis in which their own fighters are joining the IS-K since they don't view the Taliban as being fascist enough.

[@kyleshape8645]

Ah, I see another LazerPig enjoyer. Welcome to The A-10 Sucks club.

[@hamza1947]

The 'Downfall' movie about Saddam Hussein is called 'House of Saddam'...its excellent....

[@swearimnotarobot3746]

You know the way every movie and tv show ever basically says war bad etc. but like… that doesn’t make sense. Like what about civil wars where slaves rise up etc. are they wrong? Like i get every war has bad in it, but war itself isn’t necessarily bad.

[@thatdarnskag5043]

I dunno if every movie says “war bad” and have that be the end of it. It depends on the war the media is showing. Most WW2 films and TV shows ultimately show WW2 as a war worth fighting, something that any reasonable person agrees with, but nevertheless demonstrate the horrific things that happen so that people are not “excited” to want another war. As for movies set in Vietnam and the Middle East, the actions and message of those movies depend heavily on the film-maker’s political leanings. It’s a range from anti-war to pro-hero narrative/America good guys.

[@titaniawallace4223]

It is itself bad, but sometimes there are no avenues to good but through bad.

[@garytheconqueror4601]

y are u saying this about a video regarding the gulf war

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

"War is the greatest plague that can affect humanity; it destroys religion, it destroys states, it destroys families. Any scourge is preferable to it." - Martin Luther, German priest, theologian, author, hymnwriter, and professor.

[@litkeys3497]

There's the moral quality of each conflict and then there is War in general. Individual conflicts can be justified, righteous, even necessary. But War is bad for everyone involved, and especially all those caught in the middle. They pay the highest price.

[@goodpol5022]

GW Bush really said with those tanks: “IF I LOOSE IT ALL! SLIP AND FALL! I WILL NEVER LOOK AWAY!”

[@jloiben12]

“Are the unfortunate souls to be in their way.” That is how you are supposed to do invasions. Very few invasions have worked when you throw a limp wrist at them

[@Capt.DanInJapan]

There are 4 prerequisites to a nation losing its sovereignty that the international community is obligated to enforce: - Harbouring international criminals. - Manufacturing weapons in contravention of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. - Repeated aggression towards neighbouring states. -G*nocide. Iraq had done all 4 before this. Call it imperialist if you wish but in my view, one of the mission objectives of Desert Storm should have been regime change.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Well, free elections, which would probably have resulted in regime change in most areas.

[@ihavenojawandimustscream4681]

People actually revolted after Saddam lost Kuwait,partly because Bush Sr. encouraged them to. Then the US proceeded to fuck them over by allowing regime planes and helicopters to gun down protesters and genocided marsh arabs

[@ObiJohnKenobi22]

I will call it Imperialist because that is exactly what it is. Calling yourself a leftist while supporting the Iraq War requires a whole lot of cognitive dissonance

[@Capt.DanInJapan]

@@ObiJohnKenobi22 Who said that I supported the Iraq war? International law is all about vibe checks and what the UN is willing to enforce. The war happened in the way that it did because Bush Jr's justifications for Iraq failed those checks and the UN failed to act according to its own principles twice. The international community had the moral authority to remove Saddam as part of Desert Storm. By leaving the issue for over 20 years, that moral authority was lost. My position is that removing Hussain was the right thing to have done in 1990, not in 2003.

[@boilingoden7984]

This war was indeed horrifying

[@caesarplaysgames]

The Iraqis were not as militarily weak as a lot of people seem to think. They had the 4th largest military in the world in 1991, were well equipped with decent, well maintained, if somewhat outdated Soviet equipment, and remember that they had just finished fighting the 8 year Iran-Iraq war, one of the most brutal wars of the 20th century that is always overlooked or forgotten. This means many of them were battle hardened veterans. The Coalition did not come down with overwhelming force just to flex their might, they did it because they didn’t want to take any chances with the Iraqi military, which was capable of putting up a good fight if underestimated.

[@RaptorJesus]

People don't seem to understand that NATO isn't at all interested in "fighting" a war. They're interested in *winning* one.

[@caesarplaysgames]

@@RaptorJesus Precisely.

[@RaptorJesus]

@@caesarplaysgames I always think it's hilarious when I see vatniks and other such sorts say shit like "yeah well if America/NATO would do a *real* fight, without their precious airpower, then they'd see who's best!" They're so confident when they say it, blissfully unware of how much of a self-own it is. Because really, it's just them saying "we don't stand a chance unless you literally handicap yourself".

[@somezsaltz6835]

@@RaptorJesuscomparing nato forces to Russia pre Ukraine war still put the Russians at a disadvantage

[@Luis-mk9gd]

THIS was definitely one of the wars of all time

[@thomasmanning2939]

I think Lazerpig said it best. Desert Storm was art, it was strategic genius, surgical in its attack. Meanwhile Russia's plan was to shout Ura and charge their tanks head on down the main road where their buddies just got blown up

[@nas84payne]

The photos of the aftermath on the “Highway of Death” with the destruction left is unbelievably disturbing.

[@spacedonut8157]

It makes sense the French were advancing slowly, they became confused when their opposition surrendered before they could surrender.

[@Alexander-cg1ey]

They just weren't used to advancing in the first place.

[@leaveme3559]

this joke is so boring

[@Serpillard]

@@leaveme3559 Don't be too hard on them, their education system is so bad they don't have the intellectual hability to think of other jokes.

[@repugnant__6379]

Yea but France had Charlemagne and Nepoleon so W as far as I'm concerned.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@Serpillard "hability"

[@alexandercampbell0001]

it's pretty fucking incredible to think of the movements of these military units, an entire army corps is composed of divisions of men, combat air support, air transport, artillery brigades, just to name a few. A division is roughly 10k men and an army corps is composed of several of those, and that's just in terms of ground troops, there thousands of others moving, shooting, and communicating with each other inside a battle space. I'm no expert but it is incredibly impressive to think about. it's a fucking miracle that the friendly fire casualties werent higher than they were. one army corps can be 45k men, roughly.

[@Thaddios]

Kind of disappointed that Vaush didnt get to the Battle of 73 easting.

[@kyleshape8645]

Abrams tanks, no cover, no support, outnumbered direly; utterly obliterated every T-72 that ambushed them without taking a single casualty.

[@salim5394]

Imagine waking up one day and finding out the most powerful military alliance ever created is invading your country

[@abstractalien12345]

Imagine waking up and your boss has amassed that alliance bc "reasons"

[@davidradtke160]

Image the second time it happens. Like your dad gets wiped out in golf storm…then the Americans are invading again… man.

[@ji3194]

Omg I am so old I was a pre teen during Desert storm and my older brother was in Desert Strom part of the 1st Cav (1/82nd FA). He told me it was unreal how much armor was in the desert there was just waves and waves of M1s. The pictures of the highway of death he brought back was beyond sobering. The reason the it was such a overwhelming force and so well trained this was the Cold war US military at its peak in size and funding. Saddam picked the worst time to fight the US if he had done in post Vietnam it would have been a different story

[@tannerhortin514]

Reminds me of Bill hicks standup. “Call me a wimp president again!”

[@thepolarphantasm2319]

"You won the war! How'd you do it?!" "I PUSHED G-12! It was in the catalog!"

[@skedarblegarble]

My dad was in the First. He talks a lot about his noncombat service, but the only thing he ever mentioned about Iraq itself was the trenches being filled in and men being buried alive.

[@EroticInferno]

22:57 the reason we didn’t kill him is we didn’t want to create a martyr. This was a huge thing during this era… Some are louder in death but sometimes people are louder when allowed to live.

[@dominicvioli7098]

The key to victory in desert storm was that the Iraqis thought that the flat featureless dessert would be their ally. They thought that without landmarks navigating the desert especially at night was virtually impossible. They had no idea that the Americans had been working on a top secret project since the 1980s and we're finally unveiling it to the world during dessert storm: GPS. The Americans invented global positioning and fielded it for the first time in dessert storm. It wouldn't make its way to the general public for another decade. The Iraqs had no idea how the Americans were navigating. Some thought we were using magic

[@tylerhackner9731]

Indeed horrifying

[@jeraldgarza361]

I was with 7th Corps If i recall correctly we had pretty shitty weather. The enemy had no chance, but the Republican guard put up a fight,but it didn't last long. Initially the 7th corps was set up near Kuwait. We then made the famous left hook and moved to log base Echo outside of Hafar al Batin, no far from the Iraqi border. I did see one of track vehicles hit a land mine.

[@varun009]

As a third worlder, I actually like the idea of American interventionism. And as an economic powerhouse, any punitive economic action by America would be classified as such, but the martial kind of intervention also seems necessary in some despotic countries. Just a damn shame its always the worst Americans willing to do it for the worst reasons and with the worst plan if any at all.

[@avinashreji60]

are you actually not from the West? that comment just sounds like an American pretending to not be such in order to justify American exceptionalism

[@varun009]

@@avinashreji60 no, I've found that Americans don't speak English as well as I do. Then again, I went to private school. Not on board with American exceptionalism, but a fight for socialism necessitates some degree of violence given the antagonism native to the struggle. Intervention is necessary and I'd rather have it done by a country that can conceivably be controlled by the people than one where the people are very much an afterthought. I'm not talking about espionage and subterfuge as needed in regime change. I'm talking about overt acts like sanctions - >full scale military intervention if needs be. All I'm saying Is that if American socialists were in charge, things like Afghanistan would have gone a lot better.

[@avinashreji60]

@@varun009 most American lefties are not in favor of any kind of intervention by the US at all

[@MegaBanne]

@@varun009 Iraq would have gone much better too. Not that the war would happen in the first place haha.

[@loganvanderwier8866]

@@MegaBanne Socialists would have let Kuiwat get annexed?

[@philliphessel6788]

From childhood, I have thought it absurd that we waste so much on war. Teaming up to pioneer the outer space frontier offers at least as much adventure with vastly greater rewards. The energy output of the Sun might as well be infinite, so vast it is relative to the needs of Earthly civilization. Spending blood for oil is a petty endeavor.

[@Ian_sothejokeworks]

I love the word "bomblettes". They could say "low-yield bombs", but they CHOSE to make them sound adorable!

[@Disthron]

So, I thought the issue with modern unguided RPGs was actually hitting tanks. Like tanks today aren't the slow lumbering hulks from WW2, they are much faster. Also the Javelins can guide themselves to attack from above where the armour isn't as thick?

[@loganvanderwier8866]

The issue with unguided RPGs was always range. Having to get within like 500 ft of the enemy is enough to fill anybodies pants. Also, there is very rarly only one tank. It was never a good solution. The Javelin in some cases outranges the tanks it is designed to destroy.

[@uisce_]

Javelins are guided top-down munitions which means they can be guided toward the target and upon flying above the target the charge detonates. The reason it often absolutely annihilates Soviet tanks is due to a fundamental design flaw with their autoloading system underneath the turret which offers no protection to the tank or crew. (Also the reason you see turrets fly high up into the air after being hit in the ammunition)

[@iamaloafofbread8926]

41:40 Seeing how things are going down hill for the last few decades, it never hurts to have the knowledge

[@omegatheta1701]

the most hilarious part about the first iraq war was that saddam didn't immediately surrender given that just a few years before we wiped out half of Irans navy in 8 hours (technically on their behalf). the fact that they didn't just go "oh... shit uhhhhh na sorry kuwait? oh... shit no that was an accident... please don't fucking kill us" is frankly kinda insane

[@korrakoanashi7551]

He got the vercingetorix treatment.

[@Bri_1219]

Huh. I have cousins and uncles who were in desert storm, but they don't ever wanna talk about it. I was always under the impression it was super traumatic for them.

[@bh-zj4yt]

My cousin came back from Desert Storm, he was never the same…..3 years later he blew his brains out

[@falconeshield]

Oh boo fucking hoo.

[@davidradtke160]

The uppers has been a thing in rations since WW2. Blitz war basically required uppers to keep up the pace over night. It destroyed the French. Prior to WW2 fighting stopped every night.

[@falconeshield]

Thank you airplanes!

[@Noah71555]

If only they had listened to general alden this could've all been avoided 😔

[@philliphessel6788]

There’s also the factor of morale, as war is ultimately a contest of wills. Having more you could sacrifice is superfluous if the other side is actually willing to sacrifice enough more. Classic case in point: the Vietnam War. More recently, Afghanistan. In both of those, the real plunder from the US perspective was the taxpayers’ dollars, the victory condition keeping the racket going. (In Afghanistan, we ended up paying the enemy for use of roads to keep our bases supplied!) However, keeping it going too long with American casualties risked queering the deal. It was important to gauge when to move on to setting up the next war.

[@gostchiken]

44:05 My man is literally a video game Protagonist.

[@sashashahriari8244]

I really just want to watch Vaush write a check and mail it.

[@misirtere9836]

jesse what the hell are you talkin about

[@jamesknight1587]

I had to leave the stream early. Rlly didn’t think this was gonna be uploaded but thankful it is

[@anthonycicalese1793]

Some fun facts about this war; Americans fully anticipated this to be a prolonged conflict and many were shocked that the conflict ended so fast. And OKC Bomber Timothy McVeigh served in the conflict, he was noted as a pain in the ass who would wear KKK shirts and constantly use racial slurs. He was also noted for assigning black servicemen in undesirable positions. Also weird fact he was obsessed with the song Bad Company.

[@telesticTroublemaker]

sociology may not be a "hard science" but it is a HARD science. that shit is difficult

[@cocorevolution1]

Man the coalition pulled up

[@philliphessel6788]

After the bombing of the USS Cole, I was hot to lateral to the Regular Army (which was eager to get me), but my family talked me out of it. In retrospect, I’m glad they did; FUBAR applies in spades to the “war on terror.”

[@bloo9699]

I like how getting buried alive is controversial but being cut in half by artillery isn't.

[@lava172]

Well the former is absolutely a worse way to die

[@salim5394]

I mean it’s obvious why

[@justaamateur6533]

Personally, if my options were either to slowly asphyxiate under sand or to be instantly evaporated by artillary, you bet your ass id be standing in the middle of a field waiting for a missile to blow me away

[@jordanclark4635]

I agree that I’d rather be vaporised by artillery; but that’s often not how artillery works

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

@@jordanclark4635 Yeah, the shrapnel will tear a person to shred first and said person would spend the next few hours bleeding to death

[@Thaddios]

RPGs are not tube launched grenades, to be an RPG it has to have a rocket motor that actually propels the projectile forward, under barrel grenade launchers fire like a bullet with a charge detonating in the tube behind them that throws them forward.

[@Disthron]

I'm pretty sure the Methamphetamine thing was only the Nazis. Historians have noted that the Blitzkrieg and it's eventual stalling tracked with the effects of meth addiction, and its diminishing returns.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

The Finns got some Pervitin too.

[@MrCalls1]

War crimes are made crimes because they’re cruel. It’s war. War crimes are made because they are mutually harmful. If both sides engage in said behaviour casualties for both sides will rise without an opening for a tactical advantage, because it is its own perfect counter. It’s a recognition that war is a horror that civilised countries shouldn’t have to do, and yet do anyway, but if we assume each other are civilised we can agree rules to make it so that the actual people commanded by the elite are harmed the least. This is what the laws of war are for. To protect manpower, or if you want regimes, but anyway. In fact a lot of war crimes are actually laws with subsections that describe how it may not be a crime if it’s done with sufficient military reason. A good example. Destruction of bridges. It is illegal to destroy civillian infrastructure, if you cut the 3 bridges across the Thames it’s take years for london to recover, and in a a state of war you could probably cause extreme hunger and some deaths. But if in the court of law after the war is over you can convince the jury your action were based on a military need, ie to stop supplies, manpower, equipment, or munitions crossing the bridge it is permitted. There are even more blurry lines with, you are allowed to attack electrical distribution networks supplying armaments factories, because they’re a sufficient target themselves, but…. Can you attack a whole countries grid…. We broadly agree no, although a goody portion of power may be going to arms, this will depend on the court later, but if there’s a document that states the purpose for attacks on the grid was to freeze the civilian population into submission then you will loose your case and be sentenced for committing that crime.

[@vercingetorix5708]

People don’t understand that Iraq was not weak. Iraq then was about the same strength Iran is today. Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world. A battle hardened army, and an army that had fairly advanced kit. Not top of the line, but pretty good. Iraq and Iran have always been at about the same level of strength.

[@philliphessel6788]

At the time of that campaign, I was in the Coast Guard Reserve as a Boatswain’s Mate - partly to avoid the humping of a pack through Central American jungle that had previously seemed in the offing. I knew some folks in the Reserve-only rating of Port Securityman who got deployed to Kuwait, where their training in Alaska to deal with Russians was not very relevant. Had I wanted the “hurry up and wait” experience, the Marines would have delivered it. I became a “Coasty” to get a steadier diet of more worthwhile action (search and rescue, and law enforcement).

[@PaulWillisJr]

The Gulf War is what GWB expected 2003 to look like.

[@jloiben12]

It did. We just couldn't occupy Iraq

[@rowdyrudy3761]

Shock and Awe: strategically crafted by Red Alert 2 players circa 2000.

[@CharlieApples]

28:08 “Armored bulldozers…push the piled-up sand back into the trenches…burying 150 Iraqis alive.” On one hand, that’s a brilliant two-birds-one-stone tactic, but on the other hand…jfc that’s brutal. I’d be a lot more outraged if the Iraqis in the trenches _had_ surrendered, but because they didn’t…well. It’s a bit like standing in the middle of a race car track and refusing to move when the cars come around the corner. The trenches were going to be filled, with or without them. If only they had surrendered, they could have potentially held up the line temporarily and may have even survived the attack.

[@sfurules]

I...with current world events I am struggling with something. I am really happy we have the military we do. Like...no one fucks with the US military and at this point in history there's comfort in that as a US citizen. But I also struggle with the knowledge that so many resources could be used for the betterment of out society and instead go to the Military. It's hard and I don't know where to find the balance.

[@RaptorJesus]

If you look at the percentage of our budget that goes to the military, our defense budget isn't *that* big. Sure, in total amount of money it's the largest on the planet several times on. But as a % of our entire government budget? If memory serves we're actually on the lower end of that spectrum.

[@bengreen171]

this is essentially the 2nd Battle of El Alamein replayed.

[@apollofell3925]

I know someone who worked comms for an artillery unit on the highway of death. You don't want to know what he told me, about what our weapons *do* to *people.* Suffice to say, he didn't think of that particular operation as neccessary or justified.

[@MinaEntwine]

so the only real thing i learned is that the US used killdozers in Desert Storm

[@Dragonite43]

Good to hear you enjoy history so much! :D

[@xkozyTV]

i wonder what happens when the remains of those buried alive are uncovered i don’t know if they were already retrieved or if their still there, i wonder if they would be made into a statement of the overwhelming brutality in power difference but compared to those who surrendered, i think it would be a interesting subject to see in a museum of war if it isn’t already talked about in a museum i cant imagine if they’ll ever be uncovered unless dar into the future

[@millennialmongoose3392]

As far as I am aware the main reason we didn't get Saddam was because the original coalition was formed to kick him out of Kuwait. There wasn't enough support to hunt down Saddam and finish the job given some of our allies at the time. there was also likely a play to try and not appear as warmongering on the world stage. So after we got a few concessions and kicked him out Bush decided to stop. As far as I am aware anyways not my most studied operation.

[@EvilGuacamoleGaming]

33:18 I take armodafinil (nuvigil), a newer version of modafinil (provigil), and took the original. I don't think it has any opiates in it or anything like that. Honestly, it's a miracle drug that gives me about four more hours of being awake- important since I take multiple other medicines that make me sleep that much longer. This is a fairly low dosage. When I was originally prescribed the medication my psychiatrist told me that the medicine was used by military pilots to stay awake more than 24 hours at a time with ease. But also that I wouldn't be getting that dosage level, suggesting that the military used something like five times as much. It's also worth noting that even taking a generic version without insurance a month's Rx is about 600 bucks; the new version is interestingly somewhere between 200-300 a month for a standard dosage. It has no addictive properties that I am aware of but if I miss it I know... because I sleep an extra three hours and am groggy for most of the day. Just like I was before I started it.

[@alpharius5178]

Sadam remained in power because the great success of the operation was so disproportionately great that it was largely viewed in the media as a slaughter rather than a war. Public support around the war froze overnight. Essentially, the situation was like Iraq was being a schoolyard bully against Kuwait, and the coalition was the equivalent of bringing a gladiatorial fighter that just comes in to beat the bully within an inch of its life. The media essentially prevented bringing a genocidal maniac to justice, but at the same time it documented how brutally we demolished them.

[@falconeshield]

Justice. Like how Bush Jr saw Saddam as the dude behind 9/11 despite all those Saudis on the airplanes that destroyed the twin towers? Saddam would've gotten Gaffadi'd eventually, but he had no WMD. Where's the justice for Bush Jr?

[@elloingo]

The movie Vaush is hoping for about Sadams downfall is Hot Shots Part Deux

[@thesaferoom6968]

i wouldnt have even known about the operations room with out vaush now im subbed to them, how is that content stealing?, its free real estate

[@Luigi_Mario_1997]

He needs to watch the Air War video.

[@valloyola]

that's insane! literally every square inch of Kuwait covered in Coalition troops and military equipment

[@chariot5660]

Russia be like "let's see Paul Allen's invasion"

[@nighthawk6281]

A lot of ppl hate George Bush Sr cause of this and I don’t get why

[@ObliviousPenguin]

They're probably associating him with his son (fair/unfair?) who was indeed a war criminal and should be in prison.

[@DieNibelungenliad]

There is a great BBC doc series called House of Saddam which is sorta like that downfall movie

[@trevord879]

Desert Storm was a based conflict

[@elloingo]

I suppose the issue with shock and awe is it will never be a defensive tactic

[@CameronBaba]

bro i need a source on 44:04 i can't find info anywhere but that'd be a WILD thing to make up

[@Qorelin]

Amphetamines were given to pilots up until as recently as 2002, when an F-16 pilot high on them accidentally bombed Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. Modafinil was used after that incident.

[@packratpirate4154]

I had more fair fights playing RTS games with my 2 year old dog

[@Opno]

It's interesting to put this in context with the War on Terror and the 03 invasion of Iraq. The military had to be so hyped up and convinced that the superior tech and firepower would just clean up like it did here. But it ended up being a completely different type of battlefield.

[@davidradtke160]

I mean it did clean up on the way in. The Iraq military was wiped out rapidly and easily with minimal losses.

[@shelovinthecrew]

03 was probably even easier considering they had basically neutralised the entire Iraqi army in Iraq within 3 weeks lol

[@Opno]

@@shelovinthecrew well sure, the initial invasion was a similar success, but I meant the occupation and how different it ended up being fighting against insurgents

[@shelovinthecrew]

@@Opno oh yeah but we’re talking about something completely different there being an occupying force is hard bc you’re generally facing up agaisnt an overtly hostile population unless you plan on initiating some totalitarian regime it will always be difficult

[@Opno]

@@shelovinthecrew yeah, that's what I mean. It's interesting to see how well the tactics and equipment performed during a shock and awe invasion where you smash and get out, compared to how poorly essentially the same military did at handling an occupation with a complex political situation and a ton of civilian collateral.

[@TURBOMIKEIFY]

That one Cpl. deadass Leroy Jenkinsed that shit.

[@michaeltravers9866]

the codex astartes supports this action

[@philliphessel6788]

The lumbering armor “mopped up” what was left after the Air Force munitions pulverized the greater part. Anti-tank rockets are tending to defeat much more expensive vehicles - especially when the Saudi princes (who fear an effective army might overthrow their regime) deploy them in Yemen without proper infantry support or timely air strikes.

[@patrickmitchell3497]

38 minutes in, why is the narration done by Homer's boss?

[@couragerevolution1410]

Merica! Fuck yeah! 🇺🇸

[@MegaBanne]

The US did destroy a lot of civilian infrastructure though. Like water pumps, sanitation plants, waste management plants, and electrical power plants. Like USA for some reason thought that the people of Iraq didn't have it bad enough under the rule of Saddam. Turkey and USA is to thanks for the current water crisis in Iraq. There is such a thing as overdoing it. Like war crimes for example.

[@RaptorJesus]

NATO strikes things with military utility. They don't engage in pure terror-bombing. On the other hand, Russia regularly strikes apartments and other purely-civilian targets. Civilian casualties in NATO attacks are an unavoidable side effect, for Russia that's the whole point.

[@blazingmonolith4323]

The sheer magnitude of 2500 bombing sorties per day is fucking nuts!

[@carlcarlington7317]

The French foreign legion will just tag along in random battles and missions for little to no reason. It’s literally in their contracts that they have to be put in danger at least once in their time in the legion

[@raidermaxx2324]

Stormin Norman!!!!

[@ThaTruFily]

Weapons, not food, not homes, not shoes, no need... ...Just feed the war (cannibal animal). 🎤

[@GTFODeathknight]

the meth is called Ripit

[@timrideout5847]

OperTions room is the best.