This Computer Chess Game Is Insane

[@xploszia7306]

So Stoofvlees sacrificed a knight to open the A file, then sacrificed a rook to close the A file, and then sacrificed the other knight to open it again. Man engines are brutal.

[@dariogreggio7981]

it wasn't really hard to see honestly

[@kaz_50]

@@dariogreggio7981 yeah for sure man🧢

[@adiadiadi333]

The rook sac never intended to close the A file but to rid the black bishop that was blocking the A file even if it costs another blockade by black pawn as this time white pawn b6 will ensure that black pawn won't stay blocking for long.

[@fabickcollis2736]

@@dariogreggio7981 Did you see it? Obviously, noone can beat Dario Greggio.

[@WriteARead]

Just bc you beat up a scholastic chess kid doesn’t mean your 3800elo man.

[@kazitaufiqiqbal1194]

00:15 "Igel doesn't understand that it's losing until it's way too late and even thinks it's winning when it's probably losing" You and me both Igel

[@F2a0bi0an5o]

He was saying at the exact time I was reading it

[@slimnfade]

Man i was beating a 2000 chess engine and want to know it's 'mindset' until i stalemated it. Like does it know best squares to force a stalemate?

[@michele-dg8hw]

It would be a good idea to put on the screen both evaluation bars in this kind of video, the first according to a computer and the second according to the other

[@-zelda-]

Their GUI currently doesn't support that (and I doubt it will ever do). Not saying that is not a good idea tho. They use the more conventional in engine games line chart with an eval clamp at +-10

[@xanschneider]

I feel the most important thing to show would be the top's engine (at a given time)'s evaluation. Stockfish currently beats these engines by a huge margin. It would be nice to see what it thinks about the positions.

[@sidalpay747]

Yup. You can show anything with video editing albeit a lil bit more effort. Btw, Im happy it clearly show whos playing which side which alot of streamers missed.

[@greennin]

@@-zelda- the GUI doesn't have to support it, you could edit this into this kind of video. That would do the trick

[@regginsouth9565]

This guy was a lawyer, doctor, construction worker, manager, astronaut, and now a chess player. He is truly inspirational.

[@mcboladefogo5850]

Firefighter

[@johnisaac8395]

What? Who

[@threethrushes]

'Igel' - German for hedgehog, pronounced 'eagle'.

[@nosami5268]

😂 Du nimmst mir das Wort aus dem Mund.

[@simohayha6031]

I knew it had to be some similar language. Cus its 'Egel' in Dutch. Stoofvleds is Dutch for beef/boiled stew. Vlees meaning meat.

[@octobsession3061]

Jeager

[@zanjaykurian7859]

thnx

[@octobsession3061]

@@sam_copeland wow the man himself

[@8888_myworld]

LET's know these 2 Engines first :: CCRL RANK #5 STOOFVLESS II (Private program) (Belgium🇧🇪) ( Algorithm :: Alpha-Beta Tree Search i.e, non-NNUE) Bayes-ELO : 3660 ( as of April 14, 2022) Vs CCRL RANK #14 IGEL 03 NNUE (Open Source program) (UKRAINE 🇺🇦) (Algorithm : Monte Carlo Tree Search) Bayes-ELO :: 3557 (as of April 14 , 2022) ENJOY 🥂🥂 !!

[@2222_webfin]

🔥🔥🔥 # Computer chess # savagery

[@IN-pr3lw]

Thanks for the Tale of the Tape

[@RikMaxSpeed]

That’s very helpful, so Stoofvlees has the advantage of exploring a much greater tree, whereas Igel is forced to prune too much, it has trouble seeing past deep sacrifices.

[@8888_myworld]

@@RikMaxSpeed right 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@sidalpay747]

@@RikMaxSpeed Im glad i found somebody share my view. Igel needs to work on its pruning algorithm it throwing away many possibly promising lines. Cheers!

[@kuyadong6791]

I'd say you're the best commentator on this channel. You speak not so fast, clear and articulate as if you're in a speech and communication class (one of my subjects back in college days), lols. Anyway, what i like the most in this video is that it shows how these computer evaluates a move, be it their own or of the opponent. I wonder, though, who is the computer analyzing this game. Stockfish?

[@-zelda-]

Your question is kinda weird. Igel and Stoofvless are the ones analyzing the game while they play. Also, they are engines, not computers (software, not hardware)

[@kuyadong6791]

@@-zelda- Yes. Igel and Stoof are both analyzing the game, but as a player, not as a spectator. When Igel makes a move, it give itself a + evaluation while Stoof disagrees. When Stoof makes a move, it give itself a + evaluation while Igel disagrees. With that, we're not sure which one of them is correct. It simply shows what are they thinking in each move. When the commentator said that Igel is wrong, and that Stoof is correct, it gives me the idea that he must have used another program to evaluate the move of these two engine players. Thus, i came up with such question.

[@-zelda-]

@@kuyadong6791 I don't think he used Stockfish to evaluate the position and rather relied on what the engine that ended up winning the game was saying and considered that the "correct" evaluation since Stockfish at 11:28 says that the position is a draw

[@kuyadong6791]

@@-zelda- Ohhh, i get it now. Thanks. Indeed, why the need of another program when the victor is good enough as reference.

[@kuyadong6791]

@@sam_copeland Oh! You're that guy on the video. Thanks for noticing. So i was correct all along. Stockfish also involved on these analyses. Nice work. Hoping to see future chess review and commentary would look like this. Keep it up. 👍👍👍

[@plasmaastronaut]

funny how computer chess coverage is progressing. it used to be the 3200 elo chess engines cos they were super human: then the 3400 elo chess engines made the 3200 elo engine coverage redundant, but now the 3500 elo engines make elite CC coverage boring cos its 99.9% draws, so we've gone back to covering the 3200 elo engines.

[@-zelda-]

Engine games are not 99.9% draws because a book (Unbalanced Human Openings 2022) is used to avoid that and around 50% of the bullet games don't end in a draw

[@plasmaastronaut]

@@-zelda- or in other words they force the engines to play from garbage positions that they'd never choose to play themselves, and give them insufficent time to calculate, then when these crippled chess engines lose, its announced as 'X loses to Y'. Whatever way u or anyone tries to twist it, perfect chess is a draw, and as computers get better at chess, their draw rate will converge on to 100%.

[@-zelda-]

​@@plasmaastronaut Not really "garbage", otherwise all games would end in a win/loss Insufficient time to calculate is relative to the hardware used, it might be "insufficient" in your mobile but CCC and TCEC have really powerful hardware. CCC has 3 events, bullet, blitz and rapid and TCEC is usually way longer. You have to keep in mind (in case you don't know) that engine games are played in "pairs", they play the same opening with both white and black, if the opening is better for white and one engine manages to win with white and draw with black (or even win with black) that's called a "pair win", if it wins with white but losses with black, then it's a draw. In this particular case actually the pair was a draw! Since Igel managed to win when it played with white. Yes, as engines (they are engines, not computers) get better the drawrate increases, but from the starting position only the top 3 will more consistently draw against each other (Stockfish, Dragon and Leela), the rest of the engines will still manage to lose some games more often. You also have to keep in mind that since engines don't get tired, they play lots and lots of games, in this qualification event it was 8 engines against each other for a total of 1568 games, even if an engine loses a pair it doesn't matter that much as long as it was just a fluck.

[@tomkitching]

The moving fork by the bishop towards the end was a thing of absolute beauty.

[@kalebjohns7715]

Man I saw that and I'm gonna have to add that to my game whenever I get a chnace

[@homerp.hendelbergenheinzel6649]

one cannot help thinking these engines are trolling xD

[@goodoptcs15]

That background looks sick! I didn't even notice that it was moving until the end🔥

[@wcdcsgo8278]

The piece harmony from engines is always so amazing

[@edwardjanuary1259]

Why you speak about winner superiority and forgot about loser one when all of them are engine (computer)

[@bethanalpha]

@@edwardjanuary1259 except even magnus would be crashed by the losing computer

[@edwardjanuary1259]

@@bethanalpha you mean that Magnus is weaker than any program could be downloaded from internet on any smart phones ,that means people are so weak and can't recognise all chess concepts at once they are just use some ideas to win eachother not dominant the whole game

[@johnglennlambayon2412]

Anyone experiencing any audio issues with the video?

[@-zelda-]

Very nice video! Featuring a very interesting game, explaining concepts like book moves and even giving a link to the game in the description. Good work!

[@n64danny21]

Finally an incredible chess game that ends in an actual checkmate lol probably because computers don't give up. There is nothing more infuriating than watching a game between "grandmasters" and at the end one resigns, not allowing their opponent true victory.

[@scaramanga7696]

'Stoofvlees' - Dutch for 'beef stew'.

[@xanschneider]

Great clarification you did at the beginning of the game. I follow CCC and know how it works. Still, when I watch a recap, I sometimes don't know when the opening moves end and the engines take over.

[@AdityaGupta-qd8iv]

13:25 if black plays ...Bb5 white has the amazing defense Ra1!

[@RikMaxSpeed]

Feels like Igel is blinded by short term gains. Also took ages to free it’s knight and rook that were hamstrung on their starting positions.

[@sportscracker1833]

This is why engines are engines. The moves which no human can find can be found by computers.

[@-zelda-]

*chess engines, not computers (software, not hardware)

[@-zelda-]

@@Sam-vg4rj The problem is that "Chess Computer" already means something else, its a term used for a hardware + software solution such as Deep Blue. A chess engine is a computer program, just software, something that can be run on "any" computer. Also, the word "engine" is not only used to talk about "motors", Google for example is a "search engine".

[@okaydetar821]

@@Sam-vg4rj So you think it's better to use incorrect terminology so that people who don't know the term chess engine just continue not knowing? Where is the logic?

[@electricmaster23]

One of the best games I've even seen.

[@Modiagent]

Hey guys I use cheat engine with smartphone fist 5 move engine then random move try to exchange major pieces bring opponent to endgame and try to help with engine opponent become mad. I never get caught I have lots of id . I use smartphone for cheating . This is so much fun hahahahaha

[@gw6667]

13:29 Looks like the critical error was here and black could've played on with Re8. You kind of glossed over that

[@voluntarism335]

It might not be, this is an engine we're talking about here and can see probably 50 moves ahead, you are not going to beat an engine

[@tonybestyo]

Very nice explained by Sam, not too fast neither too slow and stopping only in the key moments. The best of the game was not the pieces sacrifices but the funny bishops forks to black's rooks at the end with Stoofvless trolling it's opponent with style. Nevertheless, not many humans can win that final with white against a computer engine.

[@chriszablocki2460]

It's called bidding nill. It's an outstanding move when you're holding really low cards.

[@edp7476]

14:38 I don't understand. Why does black play 36...b1=Q (?) Is that really best? It seems to be a wasted move. We know white is intending to capture the b-pawn. By promoting, the capture takes place on b1 instead of b2. The only advantage black gets seems to be that the white Q is not guarding the bishop on d4. Then Black played 37...Nf5 and attacked the bishop as well as the d6 pawn. Next came 38. b7, Nxd6. It seems like black could have played Nf5 a move earlier with better results. Or another idea, why not play 36...Bc8 (?) Either of these moves looks better to me than a futile promotion. What did I miss?

[@Vearru]

I also seem to play by sacrificing a lot of pieces like Stoofvlees, the problem is I normally end up losing anyway

[@destroyer2496]

Is it just my phone or is the video is incredibly laggy?

[@nilsp9426]

10:27 I think there is potentially another reason for Raa1!, which is to be able to put a protected rook on c1 in case the situation of the pawn on c4 clarifies.

[@fringorn3553]

13:23 what happened after Bb5? Seems like black would have been able to trade everything Edit: just realized there was probably b7 followed by Ra8, sacrificing yet another bishop in order to win the rook back and pin on the backrank

[@-zelda-]

Why are so many people asking about Bd5? White can simply play Ra1

[@kardiackids1435]

00:55 "The book stops here" -Harry S. Truman...or something like that 😜 EDIT: Ok, all (dumb) jokes aside...but now that I've actually viewed the video, this is one of the best and most INSANE games I've ever watched! Great commentating as well Sam- Thank you 👍

[@dimitriskontoleon6787]

17:06 what about Qxa6? OK I know black still lose but who keep the attack

[@pukulu]

This was a bullet game (2 minute game with 1 second increment).

[@sl2200n]

13:30 blacks plaiys Nh6. why not plaiyng Bb5?

[@daniella969]

Why is everyone replying the same thing? White has Ra1, attacking the queen

[@AyushSingh-ii1tm]

Why is stockfish not analysing the game

[@refinededusoft]

stoofvlees should play against Alphazero, seeing how both AIs love sacrifices

[@Birdbussa]

the discrepancy between the evaluations is disturbing

[@Creativechessyoda]

ENGINE...."Choo choo" I like it! ;)

[@trevorbyrd7356]

I might only be 1700 but I sacrifice for open files sometimes.

[@wisdomsomto1925]

This game has a lot of life lessons..

[@alexandergloux6747]

His moustache has a moustache

[@SametALTUNSOY]

I am in love with double rook fork + king pin 18:02

[@Infamous_V.I.P]

$42 for a hat in your merchandise section. Snap out of it clowns.

[@pullupterraine199]

Stoofvlees is obviously better than Igal because its name sounds much more like Stockfish.

[@alijan991]

Next game Soofvless sacrifices King - what a crushing move - 🤪

[@johnkim7473]

The video quality is so bad. Audio, video breaking up. Was this filmed over a video call?

[@revanek5971]

Kh1 is also against capturing on h2 with check

[@Akkinone1]

I guess that engine is made by Tal.

[@jodgoker5661]

stockfish laughing in the corner

[@CreativeCat333]

Stoofvlees is the incarnation of Mikhail Tal

[@nephetula]

It looked like black had his king rook and knight basically out of the game until the last few moves?

[@shdadt8156]

sam copeland / james canty / simon 🥶

[@edwardjanuary1259]

At which move it's losing by force and what a computer that cannot make ten 10 precise move?

[@katarinajones4306]

does Igel value material more than king safety? how does igel evaulate positions

[@Nobody-df4is]

4:55 This is NOT a real computer move. I'm sorry that one is perfectly normal. King safety first! Probably Sam skipped some lessons. That other stuff Stoofvlees did was engine stuff. Beginning with Nb5! wow!

[@nitrolyte5505]

best computer chess game ive ever seen ngl

[@shimel42]

14:03 - When Black plays b2, how about Bc8 instead, with the intention of moving it to b7? With the bishop on b7, can White still maintain an attack, since it blocks them pushing the b-pawn and provides extra protection (all that's needed?) for the a8 square? It seems to semi-freeze White's bishop on d4, since Black now wants to open the a8-h1 line. White also has to worry about the pawn on b3, R(d8)e8-->e1, and is down a considerable amount of material.

[@duyvo9494]

Bc8 would be bad for Black because it takes away the black queen's defender, takes away control of the b5 square, and also leads to a couple of ways of checkmating on black's king due to how much pressure white has on him. If Bc8 is played, white just goes Qb5 trapping the black queen. If Black decides to try and save his queen by moving her to any safe square, then white just mates in 2. This means a queen trade is forced, however black does not want to trade queens just yet as there is too much pressure on the black king. Something like this: Qa6 - Bc8 Qb5 - Qxb5 Bxb5 - Bc7 And then you also said R(d8)e8 but White could easily defend by pushing d7 which would be guarded by the Bb5 so this idea wouldn't work. Playing d7 would not only trap the black bishop on b7 but also both black rooks because the e file is the only open file. White would be winning here, so Black plays a safe move instead (b2). I'm still a newbie so don't hate if there's some flaws with my thinking. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@shimel42]

@@duyvo9494 Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure I followed exactly. Qa6 - Bc8 Qb5 - Qxb5 Bxb5 - Bb7 (seems like Black has gotten out of it I think. As Black I'd want the queens off the board more than White, as it's a powerful attacking piece, and Black is under the gun, position-wise. If White pushes d7, the Black can move Rf7, stopping the rook fork, and I can't see how White can mate here. Black has enough material to even accept losing the exchange to gain a move to relieve mating pressure if need be. If instead of d7, White goes for the Rook fork (Bxf6), Black has enough of a material advantage to give up the exchange. If instead of the Q trade, White goes Qa5 with the intent of g2/Kg1 --> Bb5: Qa6-Bc8 Qa5-b2 Now White has some things to worry about too. ;) At least I think...I've been playing for awhile but am only in the 1600-1800 range, probably. So I assume I am probably missing something as people far better than I have analyzed the position.

[@duyvo9494]

@@shimel42 actually after another look at it I think I would have to agree with you. However I think the reason Bc8 wasn’t played is simply because it leaves the black queen without a defender (even though nothing could really attack it). It’s just chess engine things. Again I could be totally wrong but that’s what makes sense to me

[@tomdegroot1133]

Great game, thanks for linking the game in the description!

[@michaelsaint9794]

Thanks, a lot!

[@meiermeier29]

Why did Stoofvless give up the pawn on h6 near the end?

[@jacobmosovich]

Black blundered with knight to h6. Bishop b5 could have saved the position doubling down on the king check.

[@-zelda-]

White can play Ra1, attacking black's queen and indirectly defending the bishop. Best move was Re8, going for a draw

[@jacobmosovich]

@@-zelda- im abit fuzzy cant you take that rook because the bishop isnt defending it? It buys white one move but the queen is in a better file now to defend the king. And still able to attack whites king through the bishop. Edit: i looked it over your argument is valid. I checked Rc8 to see if doubling them up was valid however it quickly falls apart without the queen. So ive got an enemy rook on the defense out of position i decided Qc6 was the best course defend the bishop and prepare for a better defense. I have room now that the bishop is out of the way to maneuver my rook.

[@-zelda-]

​@@jacobmosovich The bishop on d4 can defend the rook, wdym?

[@jacobmosovich]

@@-zelda- whites Bd4 has black square on Ra1 my queen cant simply take the rook

[@-zelda-]

@@jacobmosovich "my queen cant simply take the rook" Yes, thats what I said haha, I was surprised when u said "cant you take that rook because the bishop isnt defending it?" "i decided Qc6 was the best course" Is not a bad idea but white can play d7, opening the diagonal for the queen, you have to take the pawn with the rook (Rxd7), otherwise is forced checkmate, now white takes the bishop (Bxb5), again, you have to take the bishop with the queen (Qxb5) otherwise is forced checkmate, and now white uses that diagonal with Qg3+, the king has to move and whatever it does the rook comes back from the A file and you can't stop white's attack

[@Vxneji]

Idk y im watching these comp games when im a beginner

[@Unlikely_Hero]

Crazy game!! Thanks for sharing

[@strangelyrepulsive77]

check ur audio before you upload nxt time, and give us PGNs so we can check some lines ourself

[@-zelda-]

Check the description

[@georges64]

@@-zelda- Yes, but the sound is saturated, likely the mic was set at 100%, it is really a pity since the game and the comments are really interesting.

[@-zelda-]

@@georges64 My reply was about the PGN, since they asked for it and its in the description, not about the sound

[@alexanderlattreuter5196]

Can you show to Elo of the Engines next time?

[@-zelda-]

You can check that in the link in the description Igel (3652) and Stoofvless (3733) Note that each tournament/website has their own ratings so you can't compare between different sites or against humans

[@dose1euro]

21.Ra6 is a reallt bad move! Losing all the advantage white had! The best move is Bd4! (completely winning for white)

[@-zelda-]

Yeah both Ra4 and Bd4 are way better but even Stockfish likes Ra6 at low depths and this is bullet... maybe Stockfish would've played the same move!

[@19MarkDavid]

Knight should have captured white a6 pawn eliminating threat. Already up a major piece if white trades bishop for knight game over.

[@-zelda-]

@@19MarkDavid Do you mean b6 pawn?

[@19MarkDavid]

@@-zelda- Yes b6.Thanks, any thoughts on that.

[@-zelda-]

​@@19MarkDavid Not sure when do you want black to take the pawn, if it takes it right after white pushes it to b6 then white can play Rb1 pinning the knight and black is forced to give back material

[@Yiran]

Stoofvlees just smoked Igel

[@erniegarcia4774]

Excellent analysis

[@modolief]

Igel - pronounced "Eagle"

[@thanosbambi]

i've won a few rooks with f4, it's always surprising when they take, and even more surprising when i lose anyway

[@JamesSamples]

I'm curious. How long did the actual game play for?

[@-zelda-]

7 minutes and 21 seconds

[@edtrice3659]

I love this opening

[@Feds_the_Freds]

guys do you also have "broken headphone" noises?

[@MarcoMate87]

The positions showned by the two engines at 7:41 are completely different WTF

[@blackiris_code]

It think it's the expected postion after best moves found by each engine at the depth they were able to go at that point of the game with their time and computing power available for this match.

[@SametALTUNSOY]

@@blackiris_code probably

[@-zelda-]

@@blackiris_code correct

[@goldenboatcaptain]

fix the audio

[@williamaugustfranz]

Igel (german for hedgehog) is correctly pronounced so that it rhymes with wiggle, not with Nigel.

[@mdb831]

Chess engines are so nasty.

[@veechimo]

wow what a game

[@tep_123]

fix mic

[@michakowalski4578]

13:30 Why not ...,Bb5?

[@-zelda-]

Because of Ra1 attacking the queen

[@michakowalski4578]

​@@-zelda- Hmm, good point. I wonder what if after white's Ra1, black would play play Rc8. Seems to me that it forces queens exchange.

[@michakowalski4578]

I just found the link to the game, I will see what stockfish says. edit: It seems there will be no way to stop pawn d7 advance after Rc8 move.

[@-zelda-]

@@michakowalski4578 Forced mate in 8

[@logical4299]

10:53 must've been Qd5+

[@per-axelskogsberg3861]

Is there any computer chess tournaments where every move is the computers choice? That reference to the berlin made it sound as if though chess has been solved.

[@-zelda-]

No

[@jasonblok7360]

stoofvlees why do some dutch people have to make names of super disgusting food

[@ChadTanker]

what does stockfish or alphazero say to this game?

[@-zelda-]

Stockfish laughs at it and we are in 2022, forget about A0 already

[@vivvpprof]

AlphaZero was only used for these famous 2017 games, you could say it quit chess 👀

[@xx-cj6ew]

"Igel" is pronounced like ee-gehl, it comes from German and translates to hedgehog

[@rabaromar4100]

Game 12 watched ❤

[@chriszablocki2460]

Nepomniachtchi is the standard of chess supremacy now?

[@mattolivier1835]

Thanks nerd. Nice video.

[@sufi2821]

stoofvlees kinda sounds like a german or dutch word

[@MC-th6nc]

Johny sins?

[@tiny_elvis2375]

Nah bro, tyson fury

[@jacobmosovich]

So black has a queen on C1 and white just blocked with bishop to f1. I would move Bishop to b5 doubling up. It might not seem like a winning move you only even out in that trade both queens and bishops being lost. But i think it sets up black for a rook knight endgame if you force that trade to happen. The only way i see white having an advantage is pushing the b pawn for a sacrifice to kill the rook. That still doesnt have an answer for blacks b pawn about to promote. If black pushes the pawn after white pushes their b pawn theyll expose their rook by removing the d bishop defending. Heres how i see it all going after bishop f1: Bb5, Kg1, Qxf1, Qxf1, Bxf1, Kxf1, Rxd6. Of course there is another line if white sees it after blacks bishop b5 is b7, Qxf1, Qxf1, Bxf1, Ra8+, Kxb7, Rxd8, b2 queen is inevitable after this because black defends the b file from the rook. It was all a sacrifice to get a queen up.

[@-zelda-]

I already replied to ur other comment but again, black can't do anything if white plays Ra1

[@nabilkha5647]

Merci.

[@ivayloivanov2921]

13:08 what about Bb5?

[@-zelda-]

Ra1 attacking the queen

[@PastorMirchev]

Absolute beauty!

[@MrKiwi-yd4th]

The question is how fast was this game?

[@-zelda-]

7 minutes and 21 seconds

[@rockoob]

Get a better mic or better recording software pls

[@protibadimon4169]

I need a chess developer

[@-zelda-]

for?

[@fernandamenezes7244]

@@-zelda- to develop a New checkers engine, of course.

[@jurjenvanderhoek316]

What a terrible name for a chess engine ... "stoofvlees". It is Dutch for "beef stew".

[@realraven2000]

it's pronounced 'Eagel'

[@semeretadese6856]

Nice 👍 very much.

[@greenmoxy]

Had to watch at 2X . SO SLOW!

[@charmainattwood]

Holy crap 😯