This NEW Secret Button Could CHANGE Controllers FOREVER

Controllers are evolving and arcade sticks are being left behind but not anymore! Thanks to this new, secret button the humble arcade stick could possibly return as the best way to play fighting games again! Let's take a look at this controversial mod, The Antagonist.
**THANKS to Bit Bang Gaming for providing this review unit of The Antagonist**
Should this button be allowed or should we ban it? Comment below!
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Tags: Evo, EVO Japan, fighting games, arcade stick, #controller #streetfighter6 #fightinggames

[@NoiseFetish]

Predfiction: someone's gonna try making it a discrete mod where it's actually hidden as 1 of the 8 buttons (with a secret switch that swaps between regular and "antagonist" input).

[@NihongoGamer]

Sneaky!!

[@mattbrill]

@@NihongoGamer Doing this would be extremely simple, what I would do is wire it to 2 buttons that you wouldn't normally press together doing normal play and have it activate when they're pressed together. This wouldn't require any special tricks or extra hardware or anything. that being said I don't think any kind of deception or cheating is appropriate in tournament play or anywhere really. all button controllers are legal I don't see why this shouldn't be, but then again I think all button controllers excluded as well, This isn't exactly a popular opinion but what can I say i'm a grumpy old man who's sitting his ways Haha

[@gamesonastick]

That was my first thought. I have a pad hack of a power A enhanced controller which has two programmable buttons. It's only a matter of time.

[@HanSoo417]

yes but in a tournament setting people can see what buttons are being pressed and its wouldn't be too hard for someone to figure out that those buttons were doing more than they should.

[@Bird_Dog2099]

I hope this stuff gets cracked down on for tournaments etc. But, what about using like a hidden touch sensor that u just move your hand or finger across and it registers? If u could have that in there blended in nicely so u can't even see it, would b kool. But there is no honor in playing like that. If you're just horsing around it's kool, but cheating in high level competition(something I'll never b good enough to have to worry about) is totally bogus and a sign of weak character. Who wants to "win" anything like that?

[@Midori_Hoshi]

I think the problem is that it's a single button doing more than one function, without even the need for a shift button. The fact that it can do up, down, left, and right automatically based on context might make it against the rules. If it was strictly an up button, then it would probably be within the rules since that would be a total of two up buttons, which is allowed. I think configuring a pad to work sorta like a button box is still the best way to go, however, despite being technically tourney legal, you wouldn't actually be able to use it in an offline tourney since it's a PC software only thing. For offline tourneys, especially on console, a button box is probably best.

[@rrteppo]

I mean have you seen the Pizza box? He laid out his combo's in both directions across a XXL pizza box and slides his finger across.

[@Midori_Hoshi]

@@rrteppo His combo's what? Do you means combos plural? You don't need the apostrophe after ever S. From my limited understanding of the pizza box, it sounds like it has multiple buttons doing the same function, which is against the rules, outside of allowing two sets of directions.

[@AkibanaZero]

This may be a bit reductive but if we're going to these sorts of lengths to give ourselves input advantages, we might as well just skip to the part where all FGs use simple inputs and get it over with.

[@MegamanNova]

This should have been everyone's sentiment when all button controllers showed up. Once you give a green light to hitbox and cross-up type of controllers, it is only FAIR to allow other contraptions to aid the classic arcade stick. Have you seen and counted how many extra buttons those tournament legal ones have like cross-up and smashbox? And they say it's tournament legal. Here, we have 1 extra button - (1 OMG!) - and everyone is crying unfair?

[@ens0246]

Exactly. Charge characters are specifically balanced with their inputs in mind. If all these other controllers are legal then simplified controls like in DBFZ and SF6 should have no disadvantage like shortened combo potential as anyone with one of these controllers is bypassing the designed limitation. I hope all Devs just disable SOCD and lololol at anyone who says they need something like a hitbox for medical reasons. Because it doesn't stop them using it, it just takes away some of their advantage. Only some as they still get instantaneous opposing directions.

[@ThaMxUp]

@@MegamanNova that 1 extra button, is a literal macro... that's the problem

[@MegamanNova]

@@ThaMxUp Macro which enables you to press 1 button to simulate more inputs? Oh yeah, like how the selling point of hitbox and all of it's kind is reducing "work" to effectively input guile type inputs and tricks impossible to execute on traditional controllers in the same time, delay and effort? Both are shortcut enablers. Videos on KZbin showing how easy it is to use them, you can actually see how it reduces work inputs during hard sequences. Reduction of work required to achieve same output from traditional controllers. Sounds like a macro to me. I'm not saying ban hitbox and the like. I'm saying, if you allow universally accepted easier and better controllers, just allow the classic arcade stick some upgrade to level the playing field. If you are here to stop necessary work to be able to legitimately "play" a fighting game, you should have done so when hitbox type controllers started appearing. Making things easier compared to traditional controls is its main marketing. We were way past that.

[@ThaMxUp]

@@MegamanNova you don't understand the difference between a macro and a hitbox clearly, something is a macro when it allows someone to press a single button and get multiple inputs, so for example lets say by pressing forward and square you get a dp motion, because square is clearly doing the inputs of down > down-forward > punch it is a macro because it is only intended for a single action, yet it is doing multiple hitbnox out of the box doesn't allow that nothing about hitbox is a macro you have to press multiple directions to get the shortcuts and a lot of the shorts aren't so much shortcuts as they are sijmply travel time reductions

[@mr.gamingz]

Thats why Capcom added modern controls (motion or not) into the game.. People dont want to do moves normally anymore. Easier here, shortcuts there, advantage over advantage. Miss the old times.

[@ignap]

I wouldn't mind just having it as an extra up input vs hitbox controllers, but if we continue modding controllers in this way, eventually, we might as well not have motions for specials attacks, as we would basically skipping every single one

[@akaiakumai390]

honestly the antagonist button wouldn't be so much of a problem if it didn't allow for it to have multiple inputs. If it only could press up if you are holding down or only press forward while holding back it wouldn't be that strong. The reason the hitbox crossup stick is nice is, yes it combines the benefits of having a stick while also giving the benefits of a all button layout, but you still have to press a separate movement button to take full advantage of its potential...its not just a 1 button does everything kind of thing. The same goes for all button layout pads as well. You have to press each individual movement button to take full advantage of it. The antagonist button just does way to much for way too little which is why i don't see it becoming tourney legal anytime soon since it provides tons of potential inputs all on the same button.

[@ValisFan3]

I don't believe that tournament legal buttons should be allowed to have "if-then" programming. They should only really do one thing. A button can only be up or only be down. It cannot be up if down is active on the stick.

[@ShineChromatica]

From the sound of it, this can do things that proper SOCD cleaning prevents so I cannot imagine it being legal to use in any tournaments at all. It probably won't change controllers at all, I mean the Pizza Box didn't and that is some true innovation lol.

[@emasirik]

"proper" SOCD cleaning for most tournaments is literally just not allowing both directions to happen at the same time. Capcom Cup does mandate that L+R = neutral and D+U = Up, but other tournaments typically don't, and you're free to let the pcb resolve the SOCD however it wants, including L+R = last input wins, allowing for instant booms.

[@4501Kevin]

Hahaha pizza box 😂 poor Hit box doesn't make much difference than a tradicional stick

[@mkylem]

100% cheating for two reasons: 1. The board uses an ESP32 which is extremely easy to program for and flash firmware on, so you can't ever be 100% that it is running the firmware that the developers released. I can make software that does macros which are, indisputably, tournament illegal. 2. The inputs are deterministic, BUT they are not utilizing a reasonable or legal way for generating the output. The single button can generate two different signals depending on the state of the inputs beforehand. That means there is no static remapping available in-game or in-console. This breaks the EVO rules for controller inputs: "1. The controller may not activate multiple game inputs from a single input mechanism." EVO uses an analog example: "NOT OK. An analog push-button which sends either game input A or input B depending on how hard it is pressed." The Antagonist PCB doesn't use an analog signal, just a digital one.

[@madnessobserverlopez9233]

How is having an antagonist button that effectively works as a macro that reverses your inputs and trivializes a lot of execution not cheating? SOCD cleaning is preprogrammed on hitboxes precisely to keep most of the usual execution requierements expected of a fighting game (e.g: back + forward = neutral, so you have to release your back input to do a sonic boom), and as you've mentioned, to use pad + joystick on a controller you need to master a very weird grip in order to take advantage of the game not having native SOCD. Mind you, I don't have a problem in programming an extra button as an additional Up input in games were Down + Up = Up in order to keep it on par with pad/hitbox for certain things, or even to make TK or 360 inputs more consistent, but instantly reversing your current input is pure nonsense and shouldn't be allowed for ranked or tournament play. If you can do Guile's [4]646 super by just holding back and tapping a button twice, at that point why not just program a macro button that does multiple input supers for you?

[@luckybunny703]

This will go over super well in the loving caring community of tournament players

[@chrispham6599]

Yeah, let's ignore the dumpster fire that's being lit in the FGC Discord Servers

[@LwisFTW]

I love you NihonGOD gamer. Just a quick question. What is displaying the inputs on your stick at 5:24 I really want an app that could do that and it looks great!

[@PandorusFightStick]

ordered some of these for some builds that i am doing, cant wait to try out ❤

[@gxmcdg]

at @2:10 where is the "down" input for the shoryuken? I only see back, forward, up... I didnt see down anywhere.

[@dizzygunner]

IMO it should be allowed but only for the up command, because hitboxes and the like aren't allowed to have anything but neutral come out if left and right are held, so should be the same for this.

[@AnisKxHmi]

Hello ! Thank you for this review ! How does it works with other games like GG Strive and KOFXV ? Are we still in the optimisation ?

[@kurufuiori]

It's great that you indicate the rules of the official games, it's a question I had and from what I see, my custom hibtox -crossup would be cancelled, but I have a question, if it cancels those keys, would it be allowed?

[@NihongoGamer]

The current argument online is that it doesn’t cancel inputs really it just “modifies” them. But whether that argument will fly at a tournament…it’s unlikely haha

[@kurufuiori]

12:09 This point annuls peripherals such as the hitbox-crossup but it is unfair because the ps4 controller has more than 2 times the addresses, one group with the cross and the other with the left analog, we will have to wait for it to be approved

[@grizzlyflute]

What is the hitbox style stick with the flashing lights at 00:04 ?

[@franklinnash]

Seems like a cheat to me. I know fighting games are desperate to be more inaccessible to beginners, but this just makes things way too easy and means the real skill of becoming a fighting game pro is lost.

[@vowel2]

If you allow this, you may as well allow fully programable macro buttons. Push the rules too much and too often and eventually only be allowed to use certain models of sticks/controllers.

[@traviscrum5860]

What is the 2nd stick you showed off with the LED back lights?

[@notsonic]

I want to see devs implement in game mitigations against shortcuts. Press two opposing cardinal directions? now you're dizzy.

[@iamseph]

All shortcuts need to be banned by default for every fighting game UNLESS the developers specifically allow certain things. I have no respect for anyone that uses shortcuts online.

[@GOTEEGAMING]

😂

[@GOTEEGAMING]

People been using shotcut since sf4 with the three punches and three kicks

[@blackstar-genX]

can i ask what program do you use for that controller overlay at 0:49 ?

[@LwisFTW]

I would also love to know.

[@allzofeel]

At that point, might as well just make the game simple to play. e.g Guile just needs to hold charge direction and you press the P for boom or K flash. Zangief just needs to press F + 3 P for SPD or F + 3 K for suplex, etc.

[@theXaint]

I know what you mean. The game is not intended to be like that. The controls are part of the game balance and feel. SF6 will have simplified alternate controls available. Something like you're talking about

[@GFClocked]

Don't touch my arcadestick. It's perfect just how god imagined it. You can pry it off of my dead hands, until then - I'll be using an 8 button stock sf4 TE stick.

[@taylorbee4010]

And I see the pad tech is coming into the light after 20 YEARS OF BEING A THING

[@mr.gamingz]

That literally only 2 or 3 people used

[@dreadafk]

Im very excited to se what changes come to the FGC scene when T8, SF6 and MK12 are all in active play. The FGC is gonna boom and we will see some incredible content!

[@ryounagashima7429]

can you do a review of the razer wolverine v2 pro? enjoying your contents!

[@NihongoGamer]

Ask them to send me one and I’ll review it sure

[@ITNoetic]

The smash box has a similar button, but it only flips left and right. It's for a very specific technique that is otherwise easy to do on a regular pad (turning around right before a jump so you can do a Bair while maintaining forward momentum). This should not be allowed. It's a macro. A context-sensitive macro.

[@freischutz898]

All of this thing is going to end up with regulation controllers that must be used in tournament without any modifications, since people are abusing the controllers instead of getting better, so it sucks but there is not other way to stop this from becoming a hardware fight instead of a skill one.

[@HattoriZero]

So it is OK to do a 20 hit combos without missing/dropping by pressing 1 button now ?

[@Kr33gola]

where did you get the addon from?

[@reportimortal]

I don't know if you say that deep in the video (gotta go, no time to watch fully), but that's already illegal for every single tournament, for every FG and I don't see that changing.

[@jupiterapollo4985]

They called it the Antagnoist. They knew this button would be controversial when they were creating it 😂

[@exiaR2x78]

Remember in SF4 where people had extra buttons for Plinking and even extra button re-wired for Slinking? xD funny to think were now at the point where extra buttons for movement/directional inputs for advantages.

[@lolhyena1714]

I have never see a controller inspection at a tournament

[@zechariahcaraballo8765]

I use a mixbox cause I like wasd, and I need 2 for space and shift, can I set them to R3 and R3 just to have extra inputs for something like tekken, and so I can use my mixbox comfortably for platform fighters instead of a keyboard ( I use space for jump without tap jump and I use shift for sprint or dodge depending on the game)

[@masterslipping6199]

Honestly the way it's installed feels more like a macro than a button input but I will say the space-bar like form-factor is a great idea. Thou at what point is it just a keyboard with a stick?

[@Kr33gola]

where do you get the Thumb Up?

[@goldentrout4811]

I mean if they're allowing hitbox now at EVO... it's only just a matter of time. Change has always been a constant in this world hasn't it?

[@dsdante071]

Is funny how we all complain about the dev's balance teams but we keep bringing this "innovations" to bypass balance design. At this point they should just consider SF6 modern controls style as the main type of controls for balance , and ending up being a non-plataform smash bros clone.

[@DeadlyDuel]

Does Nihongo know about sf 6 hitbox nerf?

[@Kathlynn82]

Sweet this is what I needed. I can combine it with the Magenta fightstick!

[@NihongoGamer]

Now that’s a combo!

[@dolpin4539]

Since almost no fighting game uses more than 6 buttons, why dont you just set two buttons already on the arcade stick to up and back? You get access to the SOCD tricks without having to rely on a macro button. This really doesnt seem to be about "leveling the playing field" and more about wanting a macro to make decisions for you.

[@finpinoytutorials]

just drill a 30mm button and bypass (jumper) to a designated button like mine its back or up so i can dash cancel.or side step cancel

[@akumous]

These controllers should be banned in tournament play. Or, on the other hand, short cuts and lever-less controllers should be banned.

[@Pichoniix]

Making these shortcuts gives advantage, people who use these will have the advantage over other players....

[@leni8044]

Can you remove jumping with the liver?

[@KusanagiMotoko100]

the dragon punch shortcut with the UP button doesn't work anymore on SF6, but it's true that Half circle or circle motions are just easier and more intuitive on stick.

[@manleyfgc7981]

It does work now following the mandatory CPT SOCD changes

[@KusanagiMotoko100]

@@manleyfgc7981 true I saw it.

[@fgcgamer]

might as well get rid of motion inputs cuz it seems that what some people want

[@chobonghwan]

Does the button change left/right depending on the direction your character is facing?

[@blazn0]

Capcom: hold my dynamic controls.

[@mr.dilanger]

I think tournaments should issue you a joy stick or game pad and play. No mods no leverless not antagonist mod. Skipping steps or actions is an advantage.

[@kinabalucat]

what i want to know is how if you use antagonist button on hitbox/mixbox instead

[@OriginalGamerPrestar]

So if I play with a user who uses this am both playing them and a AI. How is a 2v1 fair ?

[@jasonmontoya4749]

There’s no stoping it allow anything except strait up Macro, that is two or more commands by one button push.

[@markmessi9020]

imagine an entire arms race between hitbox and crossup just to make Guile even more busted XD

[@Kajichuu]

I'm glad im only a spectator of fighting games, cause i can see this making some drama later down the line somewhere, if not soon.

[@FlakkaStealth]

Just a thought try putting the button on the bottom right corner of your box and use your palm to push it I know it sounds funny but we use this trick on league of legends to level up an ability by palming control and pressing q w e or r it’s very natural

[@Ichithix]

By the current standard there is no way it's legal. It adds functionality beyond the ps pad, ie on the pad if you want to take advantage of the synergy between analog and dpad inputs you still have to choose between pressing left or right, this is one button that does both, and always chooses the correct direction to boot. I don't think there is any gray area here, this thing is absolutely in violation on current tournament standards.

[@NihongoGamer]

Yeah, not tourney legal now, but the question, should it be in the future? With some changes I think at least the short hop benefits should be allowed

[@veruminfiniteofficial3334]

​@@NihongoGamer No, Nihongo, it should not be. Why would anyone with a standard stick (OGs) or pad (many new school champs) even bother competing unless they can afford for the upgrade.

[@spragzpc1]

After this video break down am super excited for this to become a norm

[@XxFOUSTxX]

Shortcut buttons like this, and like the lever less controllers might as well just use special style 😂

[@nathannichols3492]

Anyone have a link for that add on button?

Where I can get the button he use? Isn’t clear to me.

[@LucasLealDev]

What is the next step? Now people are allowed to program inputs based on another input. What is the next one? Creating a hot which fights for you?

[@Gigamokin]

Why don't we just install chatGPT in the stick and let it play by itself?

[@veruminfiniteofficial3334]

Devil in Tekken 2 Arcade be like:

[@hunter24]

Everyone holding the dualshock wrong to get that input. In you claw grip the dpad with your left ring finger and thumb on joystick you can have more control of the attack buttons and prob feel more confortable the claw gripping with the attck and joystick

[@Yakuo]

AMAZING VIDEO

[@striderzer0]

Looks like EVO will be banning leverless controllers that dont SOCD clean up+down=neutral

[@astjuly8239]

Miss your controller vids! Love your chill content and the quality of your vids

[@NihongoGamer]

More to come!

[@sadetwizelve]

4:44 it means you’ll know who really came from the arcade era.

[@Demon09-_-]

The thing that makes this illegal ATM is that down+up must= neutral same with f+b

[@atsurokihara5525]

Jonyfraze covered this when it first dropped. Interesting little add on!

[@nodayoff1000]

Can you sale me one with the Antagonist with a fightbox m8 stick ? I not good yet to mod one.

[@KarimElHayawan]

Capcom can solve the whole opposing cardinal direction by mandating neutral direction between up-down inputs (like they do for forward-back). This levels the playing field more between leverless and levered controllers but still keeps some of the leverless specialities like instant blocking. I don't know why more people aren't talking about it this way.

[@saado99]

I've heard about this controller/button before, Arturo was demonstrating something like this at Next Level I think. It's beyond broken, one of the big issues with not policing the controllers enough. The rules need to be cut and dry on what's allowed or what's not allowed.

[@waltlock8805]

The easiest and most fair thing would be to just mandate a single controller everyone must use - but where's the fun in that?

[@bogartwilley]

Leverless Sticks are 1 thing... But at this point one has to ask themself "Why even both booting up the game at this point" cuz this is LITERALLY just a Macro.

[@CaptainYesz]

Went to local in orange county and there was like 15 stocks and 1 keyboard and 2 hitbox style controllers 🤷‍♂️

[@Hidden_Trees]

Ah, yes! *TECHNOLOGY* or as some say *TECH*

[@rebounmendoza]

This is the kind of advantage that new players an even pro players. Will start using an basically become undefeated goodbye controller players an skill.

[@koresoteira447]

If the goal of the tournament is to find the best player, everyone should use the exact same input device...

[@KaitoverMoon]

Great for beginners to learn fundamentals and situational awareness but I don't ever see it being tournament legal.

[@NihongoGamer]

Yeah it’s important to facilitate learning since everyone has different things they need focus on at different times

[@cinamynj]

I'd like to see rules that are like "you can only use these types of controller design" Would avoid so many arguments

[@Turtletech_]

I dont know i guess its kinda neat in a way.....but more on the side for the weaker crowd who cant put off execution's that need a handicap to win....thats all the hitbox or mods like this are..

[@grouchygamer2404]

Capcom incorporates easy mode and shortcuts for inputs: Players: oh no we don't need easier ways to play, we mod our controllers instead 😂. We need a new league for this players like the special Olympics. If understanding the game or practice to have good execution is to hard for you, your playing the wrong game.

[@veruminfiniteofficial3334]

Yes. We could have a skill league, and an arms race league, where anything goes mod-wise

[@blazn0]

Easy mode limits your move set. These type of controllers still give you access to all.

[@Reaubocop]

I think you have just convinced a ton of people to pick up a Crossup!

[@NihongoGamer]

Hehe crossup army about to get bigger!

[@Rich1781]

Ima use this in tekken with hecajiche

[@samirgomeznovelo746]

Well, in my opinion this anything that allows you to bypass the physical travel time of an arcade stick is illegal, why? because the developers could add a jump button or defense button by design, they could even add a customisable button layout that allows the player to put de defense and jump movements directly into any button, like MK, but they don't, because it is intended to have the stick and dpad physics as a game mechanic that makes some powerful moves more time consuming and harder to perform, they use this as a balance mechanic.

[@aspekt7631]

Bro,I think Capcom saw your video...

[@BlackGulchSaloon]

Beat me to it lol

[@jadedbreadncircus9159]

This can't be legal anywhere. This is the "deliver my food & feed it to me" of sticks. 1-button SNK pretzel-motion super.

[@100Bucks]

That's not new to me. I only game on pc. Autohotkey program is awesome. You only need 6 keys for street fighter games. The extra 2 key buttons can be converted to macros using autohotkey program. If you use straight keyboard keys. You write the script like this c:: if you use straight up arcade buttons. You write the beginning of the script like this. Joy7:: or Joy8:: Joy7 and Joy8 are the 2 extra buttons you rarely use.

[@nikolai1566]

Look at you, having so many fightsticks, your house must be cluttered, I can help you get rid of the ones you don't need... hehe

[@NihongoGamer]

Clever lol

[@carlcouture1023]

Was that a Weird Al reference?

[@mtb2223]

the antagonist button works in sf6??

[@sandycrash8868]

5:00 wouldn’t the reason the use an arcade stick would be to prevent Carpal tunnel

[@NihongoGamer]

You can avoid carpal tunnel but following the same habits that pianists and office workers use to avoid occupational injury :)

[@NoraNoita]

@@NihongoGamer hand-healthcare video soon.

[@tigerjaxkson5731]

Fighting games taking the “ronnie2K” route is disgusting. A button that shortcuts inputs defeat the whole purpose. It use to be a treat watching Daigo’s guile, SMUG’s Balrog because of their gifted sticksmanship. Not no more tho.

[@CheddarGetter]

been using it for a year. Awesome piece of kit.

[@000wolf]

I don't think anyone should have the major advantages of SOCD inputs whether that means stricter controller checks, hand cameras during matches, and/or games designed to handle/lock out those types of inputs, e.g. mutually exclusive d-pad and analog activation via settings, and tighter limitations on how it processes "impossible" inputs. Something like that would require a regulating tournament standards committee or commission which would probably only further separate the FGC from its grass-roots origins. Just be on the look out for some scandals in the future involving actual cheat boxes, designed to discretely circumvent the rules, being used to win tournaments, especially now that Capcom, and possibly others, are jacking up the prize pools to some e-sports levels. Just because people are talented and skilled doesn't mean they won't cheat; just look at speedrunning or any sport. It is going to happen if it isn't already.

[@theXaint]

Competition is one thing, you gotta do what you gotta do to win. BUT, people tend to forget that the fighting game controls like Street Fighter's have been designed to give the player a 'kinetic' feel of being in the action by doing the motions and timings with the lever. By changing the controls and the controller you're essentially ruining your game experience. Unless you can't handle a lever or teally prefer something else. I am into fighting games largely because my ❤ love for the arcades, so the lever is essential for me.