This Really The End?

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

If you liked the content leave a like, comment and share. I am always looking to improve so any feedback is appreciated. Edit: Apologies if the video quality is in 360. KZbin should eventually upload the higher res versions.

[@MrNetrizhul]

Someone mentioned in reddit that we reoriginated Nzoth into something else, I wouldn't be suprised he walk among us like Wrathion or dagger lady.

[@Nervx1]

"the stories should build over time or they feel rushed" The story of how darkspears build great capital city in echo isles is taking it's time...

[@oldscratch6861]

Orgrimmar ain’t got shit on our huts.

[@hervisdaubeny2591]

@@oldscratch6861 maybe the retaking of strathholm is over? How about gnomregan? Is Thousand needles built a damn yet? Blizz does like to take their time.

[@chazz100100]

Dude your content is so good, I find myself rewatching your vids all the time . keep it up!

[@HavocHounds1988]

I believe this was his plan. I've said this many times before, but I think what happens to Cthulhu in the Cthulhu mythos is a big possibility to what is going to happen. N'Zoth knew we would inevitably destroy him, so had a contingency plan that he crafted from his own flesh back during the time of the Black Empire. Maybe he decided he needed a way to come back after his loss to Y'shaarj in the Battle of K'tanth that Xal'atath speaks of. And speaking of Xal'atath, I think she is his contingency. In the Cthulhu mythos there is a being known as Cthylla who is said to be Cthulhu's secret daughter, her task purpose is to resurrect Cthulhu sometime after it is destroyed by man. And the description of Cthylla is interesting, she is described as looking like an octopus with wings, and she has the ability to take on a humanoid form and walk among humans. In Chronicle there is a page in the very beginning that has a bunch of artwork depicting the Old Gods and various other things, There are two beings on there that are most likely Old Gods but no true confirmation. The one in the top left is most likely Y'shaarj since it's serpentine, and the one on the same side as N'Zoth just higher on the margin looks like a winged octopus, that being I believe is Xal'atath's true appearance and form. I believe she was created by N'Zoth and placed in the dagger as a way to keep her hidden away until the time was right for her to be released. The dagger I believe was made with his power as well, which is why it's one of the only things that can actually harm him, and why it vanishes once it opens the wound in the carapace. But I've rambled enough for now.

[@shadowgamer4306]

I agree with this!

[@TheRealCeeJai]

0:45 This is EXACTLY why I was disappointed. I expected the end of The Empire Strikes Back and I got Star Wars: Droids. Although I see it slightly differently: to me, they tried to force a payoff without the proper buildup. To that end, I think the story would have felt better if the pacing was actually slower...if we had gotten another Horde vs. Alliance patch, some kind of different raid there (they seemed to give up on that war pretty quickly) and then if Azshara and Nazjatar had been the last patch, with Crucible of Storms as the epilogue raid. That would have built up N'zoth as a much bigger threat, and felt much bigger, plus given him an entire expansion dedicated to expanding his influence instead of a patch and a half. More zones should have been affected by his corruption and they could have on this timetable. All-in-all, 8.2-8.3 was a huge disappointment.

[@HavocHounds1988]

One thing to note is the name of the patch. Visions of N'Zoth, that right there should tell us that maybe what we are seeing isn't real, after all Wrathion said "what is real, if our perceptions cannot be trusted?"

[@Dawn_Dan]

Your speculation is so good, I'm so happy I found your channel, keep it up!

[@NCAcobre]

This is an interesting outlook on the story. I've been saying to my friends that this is a new chapter in WoW.

[@blueeyedwanderer7078]

Love your videos so far. Keep up the good work! It does seem like you have the best ideas about where the story of this game is heading.

[@Mechail]

For N'zoth, I didn't expect much difference in terms of outcome, but I did expect *more* than what we got. I'm more than happy for the story writers to be thinking longterm and not spoon feeding us everything, but at the same time there HAS to be more in game moments to make it clearer that there IS complexity in the story so we don't just take things at the surface level only. I feel like there are basically two levels of storytelling occurring at the moment: everything that happens in game which is ultimately unfulfilling and makes you question if the Warcraft lore is actually any good, and really really really subtle hints of things both in game (ie items, pet journals :P, etc) and out (books, etc). The later is why I love this channel, but without your deep diving efforts it just feels like the Warcraft story has lost its way. It's kinda like if the LOTR movies didn't showcase key moments, but you'd know about it if you just read the DVD booklet through a mirror whilst holding your breath or something like that.

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Thank you and thank you for the response. I can definitely see what you mean and were I definitely like looking for the clues your right there is definitely a disconnect and it is turning a lot of people off. Its why I hope blizzard treats expansions more like episodes going forward. So there can be more satisfying endings to each expansion.

[@Mechail]

@@thedreadexpanse3817 100%, I was going to reference that part of your video too.

[@BrettFairchild]

ur my favorite wow lore channel. always the most hyped for ur vids

[@danielleh2382]

Keep up the good work man! So proud of you and your videos!

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Thank you

[@f4lck793]

Another awesome video with your soothing voice, keep up the fine work!

[@XalTheMagkas]

Thanks a lot for this! I'm still disappointed though :I

[@HavocHounds1988]

Another thing to mention, there is still a large piece of N'Zoth just sitting under a shrine that hasn't been dealt with.

[@NQuick-bn7ts]

I can't wait for you next videos I wish you would do a lore speculation video or discussion. Do you have a twitter?

[@surtur9861]

Great video, and great food for thought. I for one, think blizzard would kill the champions of Azeroth. It has been stated that a death in nyalotha is final for players, and dying seems like the ideal way to get to the shadowlands. Perhaps players will have to pull a colossals themselves. The real speculation is: are we even going to see shadowlands if blizzard keeps pulling a 'wc3 reforged' on the playerbase?

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

So true. So true.

[@HavocHounds1988]

We are keeping the heart, and I believe it was said it was this connection to Azeroth and the realm of the living that allows us to traverse in and out of The Maw.

[@darcwow]

The reason why we can leave the maw is our connection to Azeroth but not with the HoA : that connection was explained at Blizzcon to be the reason why the spirit healers rez us rather than sending us to the Shadowlands like the other dead souls. So we may keep the HoA but somewhere safe in our banks rather than using it all expansion long. Or we get rid of it lore wise like the artifact weapons

[@aberrantbunny6793]

I think there are two problems with the ending. The first being that there was not nearly enough build-up for Ny'alotha as a place. Our ability to not only annihilate N'zoth, but seemingly all of Ny'alotha, after having never having been there before the raid, felt undeserved. Without a zone truly representing Ny'alotha for non-raiders to explore, it seems very disjointed for anyone who doesn't raid, which is a large portion of WoW. Almost as if it were a gift of gameplay, story, and lore only meant for raiders, which sucks for casual players. My other problem is that there is no epilogue. Every expansion of WoW has had some amount of epilogue. Whether its the ghost of Arthas' father taking his soul and telling us "hey, one of you two needs to be the lich king now". Or "We defeated Garrosh and Archimonde again but oh shit, Gul'dan's Alt just disappeared and Khadgar feels uneasy about everything going forward." (from our "favorite" expansion of course) Or even just, "Oh shit, there is a giant sword stuck into Silithus and the planet is bleeding magic cocaine." But for BFA, we got some epilogue for the Fourth Faction War, which was pretty disjointed with so many characters involved in it, but we have nothing after N'zoth getting annihilated. No real reactions from major characters. No meaningful dialog from anyone. We hit the climax of the N'zoth story, and then just abruptly ended the book. I think many people expected something to happen after that. Something that might even just simply and overtly say, "uh... maybe he isn't really dead or defeated... and what happened to that weird dagger yo?" instead of only relying on people like us paying super close attention to detail to "conspirasize" that this is not the end.

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

I can see and understand both of those points.

[@mikoajniedziela7383]

As for the HoA, I think they explicitly said at Blizzcon that we get to keep it, just can't use essences while in shadowlands, the power's still kept elsewhere

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Cool. Thank you for the clarification.

[@lightaccel744]

in Ny'alotha N'zoth whispers you sometimes stuff like "We are bound together... forever." the eye pretty much stays even after he's been defeated on PC I think N'zoth pretty much implanted himself in the PC and is now living inside or something weird like that :D would make a lot of sense "Those who defy me believe you side with them. Your betrayal will be glorious." he's talking all the time about stuff in the future and we never really get to the betray part during 8.3's story (I guess except the PvP quest, but that shouldn't count) I strongly believe he's pretty much a part of the PC now, or at least some character/adventurer who exists in the lore and decided to keep him instead of cleansing him

[@exxzgaming5938]

I expected atleast some kind of closure and a proper end to an expansion

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Thank you for the response and yeah they are reasonable expectations. The end of 8.3 was flat. I cant deny that. Though when it comes to closure are you under the impression these stories are finished? I mean if your after an ending like B.C, where there was at least a sense of suitable finale, then I agree with you, expansion endings should feel more complete, it should generally be a given. With that said the stories started in BFA would have felt sorely rushed if they closed all of them in one expac, so in that regard I am kind of glad they didn't have complete closure. Though would you have preferred them to be concluded in one expac?

[@exxzgaming5938]

@@thedreadexpanse3817 I get what u mean and i agree too much story hooks was introduced to close them all... Also it would make no sense to finish up all the stories come to think of it i would have liked it best if they ended on some kind of sensible cliffhanger i dont know say n'zoth essenc got drained by the knifu like you said but have somebody refer to it in game it can be tuccked away somwhere it doesnt have to be in our face but still have it somewhere it can be as little as a cultist saying he can still feel n'zoths presence it would be enough. the way it did end i feel like it didint even happen. I dont know it might be the ammount of time i've spent playing this game but i feel it was better before... sry for the wall of text :D Also i have to say i rly enjoy your vids i just reacently found you and the way you speculate about lore is waaaay better imo then pyromancer or accolon so keep up the good work looking forward to your next vid cheers man :D

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

@@exxzgaming5938 Thank you and don't worry about, the wall of text most of my responses end up being that long anyway. I know what you mean, I think, as in the overall expansion and ending felt like it lacked scale. I mean in comparison to the older expansions even Mop and Wod, Bfa felt small in a lot of aspects.

[@ADoggomancer]

Lol glad Im wasnt crazy with the Botaan thing

[@HavocHounds1988]

I like the overarching story format.

[@HavocHounds1988]

Honestly I think the sword is represented like most things in game, it is not shown at it's true size in the lore. Because when Sargeras stabbed the planet, the hilt wasn't even in the atmosphere. The width of the blade should actually take up about two whole zones by how it looked in the cinematic.

[@petterituovinem8412]

maybe N'zoth wanted to be bounded into Xal'atath. Duh duh duuuuh.

[@chaoslance4959]

I honestly expected some dramatic moment full of nail-biting, screaming and than a big kaboom. Not only I didn't get any of that, but it came paired with Golden Dinner plate of destiny 2.0. I am one of the few ppl who don't like old gods, and still this weak ending dissapointed me. However, I have a sneaky suspicion this is not the end and the fact we used reoregination is really important.

[@robertgeorge2011]

was this uploaded in 360 or do i just need to wait on higher resses finishing uploading?

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Apologies for that. The higher res versions should upload soon. I hope.

[@HavocHounds1988]

What if the Heart Forge is the Forge of Fate?

[@kent4833]

Probably the best take of all youtubers commenting on the subject. The key point being "what did you expect?" Many forget that there was no grand ending for C'thun or for Yogg. Not only that, despite alluding to Nzoth in multiple lore pieces, our actual interactions with Nzoth has only been limited to one patch. He is an old god, but other than scrawlings found throughout the game, we actually know very little of him and the black empire. As this is the case, the ending cinematic is proportionate to that content made available from 8.3.

[@SalariaStudios]

Wrathion did exactly as planned wrathion is not on our side as much as he boasted he is. He lead nzoth to the heart,he lead nzoth to his brother,he lead us to nzoth and do I need to mention the fact there were some heros who fell to nzoth and followed his willing excepting his influence. Wrathion has a peice of nzoth surprising after he stabbed nzoth he just vanished...has anyone asked where he went hmm. Nzoths plan was ruined as soon as sylvanis started gathering the tools needed to bring his true demise his forever death. Magni was another tool who was being used and did exactly as planned. 1 have some of your soul taken so u are halved. 2 show all of azeroth what you were befor you were experimented on. 3 come back during the true hour of twilight as intended

[@CloudStrife893]

Love your enthusiasm and cool vid but I just can’t foresee blizz paying any of this off and it just feels lazy. It also doesn’t connect to the next xpac at all either. This is the biggest mess up lore wise ever by blizz imo.

[@thedreadexpanse3817]

Doesn't connect to the next expac? I mean there's Syl... and how the expac basically built to what happen on ICC. Or are you referencing the old god stuff? If your referencing the old god stuff, what I will say is this. Order and Chaos are locked away, Shadows gone underground and we are going off to face death. The light has also had way to many hints at becoming a big bad in the near future, for it not to happen. So... assuming we win against death and the light. That's 4 of 6 magics relatively subjugated. Leaving life and shadow as the only ones that haven't been beaten. The problem is life is very susceptible to the shadow, hence the nightmare and its not as if we haven't used the other magics to stop the big bads we've faced. Leaving a very glaring issue for us as the champions of Azeroth. How do we win against the shadow with practically no help? At this point the answer seems to be, we don't. I guess what I'm getting at is the build up is there its just going to take a long time to see the pay offs.

[@_RED_-]

Hey if I can get more imagery of my panda wifu getting tentacle smacked that’s all this degenerate wants it’s all good