Talk to Thorin: LS on TSM's Problems at Worlds (LoL)

[@Shayanzass]

Coaching and Analyzing are different. Everyone knows LS knows what he's talking about. His coaching method might not be good, but it's undeniable he knows what's wrong to the smallest degree. Watch him coach challenger players, it's crazy how much he knows. Don't know why people are saying he's wrong about TSM, when it's true though

[@EnterAvidAnimeFan]

Shayanzass because he's a scumbag about his analysis. 90% of the time its "you're bad, that's wrong, it's not Korean so it's wrong and bad. NA is the worst, hands down, bad bad bad." it's annoying

[@Shayanzass]

Helix Nebula in actual analysis? No. If he's fucking around while coaching, or he's ranting. Sure, I agree. But he's playing it up especially recently. He's not acting like that in this video at all. And statistically Korean players are way better than NA players. NA/EU team's go to Korea to boot camp. If their solo queue quality is better, their coaching quality is obviously better. So sure, he's cocky about it but he's not wrong though

[@nathanrodrigues5314]

simply because TSM fans are fucking retarded

[@EnterAvidAnimeFan]

Nathan Rodrigues yes they are

[@kyohk123]

lol.. you tell me what you are supposed to do when you try to analyse a losing match from NA? Praising them? TSM fan kid, I think you should save money for your college education seriously.

[@CrimsonColbat]

I now want Tsm to pick up LS. Out of spite to reddit and because it would be a dank timeline. Holy shit can you imagine...

[@420weabooslayer]

G2 LS + Weldon, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[@anjerkanjer3260]

I was going to comment this exactly, I heard Parth is going to step down from the coach position, so who knows :')

[@Calamity365]

Thooorin feat. LS : Cant be anything but a banger

[@andylee6147]

find it funny that thoorin keeps on defending sven being a beast and its not his fault is all bjerg and double's fault

[@youri6371]

ofc this gets recommended to me now

[@thewhitecrow7472]

oh boy, reddit is going to love this.

[@Toni_Erdmann]

LS and analogies understandable to dozen people in the world, name more iconic duo

[@chingchongdingdong4326]

Bjergsen and being overrated

[@Archigosai]

Doublelift and saving flash

[@Mauricio-oo3dk]

Svenskeren and first bloods :)

[@Mauricio-oo3dk]

Svenskeren and river wards?

[@Mauricio-oo3dk]

TSM fans and God Complex :(

[@botesz20]

The fact that TSM had no korean team in the group makes their exit even more inexcusable.

[@tompossessed1729]

Botond Hunyadi Aleast they didn’t have a wild card team cause that would be painful.

[@DollaBoy2202]

Lets be honest.. FW pretty much was a wildcard.

[@tompossessed1729]

Y0 DonutZ I rather say a black horse.

[@eelixx]

tom possessed cmonBruh

[@tompossessed1729]

Elix It’s rapture Tsm having a Wild card in ther group would be worst

[@umiluv]

So great to see LS again. Would love to hear more of his opinions on Worlds. Get him on Narrative Wake again!

[@NumberOneBlitz]

Omg ive desperately been looking for a new league video all day and its from my favourite tuber

[@ilovebeer111]

That video was actually really good. I liked that Thorin asked a lot about explanation and that LS tried to prove his points. Still i would have liked it if it tried to explain even more. Good Job.

[@awildtaxidriver3372]

I clicked so fast my pc crashed

[@sidxaki8323]

Khan did mention he thinks he’s a better mid than top. I can see what LS is getting at.

[@egoist7990]

I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THIS!

[@Wolfe-Tone-]

AT-ST! AT-ST!!!!

[@TheOMGHe]

IT BROKE NEW GROUND!

[@skyccarp]

EVERY TSM GAME ENDS IN A TUMS FESTIVAL

[@mrlos6646]

IS THORIN REPLACING DOUBLE LIFT?

[@foursideking]

Thorin talks about how DL did a bunch of things that LS would torch him on during one of those coaching sessions, then invites said coach. Brilliant move by him.

[@onefortysix6955]

I have never expected a Thoorin video as much as this one

[@jamescalder5115]

3 years later... still relevant 😂

[@JKS323]

I completely agree with Nick I think its the culture of NA region where player is kicked out of team for not being a team player. You cannot flat out say shit to player to playing bad. I mean please check out video guys "Eyes on SKTT1" which came out last year. Coach Kkoma just give out orders and they have to do it. Also watch doublelift explaining NA soloq vs Korean Soloq

[@OmegaGamingNetwork]

Nice to see that what I've been saying for 2 years now get mirrored by LS around 50mins in. The biggest problem that NA and EU both have is a cultural one. Until that changes, no amount of Korean coaches or players is going to help us. I'm starting to lean to the idea that it is going to come down to the owners to recognize this and force the change. These guys are paid a huge amount of money to play this game and Western teams don't seem to take that seriously. Behavior (solo Q and practice performance) that is acceptable for western teams isn't acceptable for Korean ones.

[@IngoGarza]

So what you're saying is: they need to...cut the western shit?

[@OmegaGamingNetwork]

Yep, been saying it for 2 years now. I mean I love cheering for NA, but we aren't going to be a good region until something major changes. Honestly I don't believe it is a lack of native talent, but a lack of people invested in building that talent up.

[@johnkiin219]

OmegaGamingNetwork western culture just cant dual against asian culture, its alot different

[@andreamazzeo4306]

I mean, Eu teams usually show up, even if underrated. NA instead is always the same: they feel like they are so fucking amazing and then nothing. They should just understand they suck and try to get better.

[@johnj3027]

West loses at gaming, at electronic consumer products, at Economy, at Manner/Behavior, at respect, at quality of life, at life in general... West has great porn and sports though LMAO, West also wins in Debt per nation lmfaaaoooooo

[@RushFX]

TSM is my team, but EU is my city

[@phamcuong9183]

I love LS! He might not be a great caster, but I still hope he come back as one. He’s very knowledgeable. He says what he thinks and don’t hesitate to call people idiots :)

[@turk88]

Teams should add LS as a analyst on their team , he may not have the coaching ability but his analysis is pretty spot on most of the time. I also like his OGN casts ( LCK? ) one of the english korean LCK castings

[@Aubue]

50:34 lol 😆

[@NinjaScorpio]

LS is a pretty incredible analyst.

[@perplexbrother5476]

anyone else watching this after TSM bombed again in 2020?

[@nypad5]

don't worry, TSM fans just drop "REEEEEEE'S" in All chat. Legit said by one TSM fan on a skype call once on one of these talkshows I can't remember who hosted it.

[@daviddinant8310]

Give LS a top western team for a year please.

[@freakindamnshiki]

to see if he actually understands wtf he's talking about? he's got tempo storm and only got 4th in NACS

[@eyeslikeoceans]

yeah but give him a TOP TEAM and you can more accurately measure his potential. He can do more with people who play the game at a higher level and if he doesn't know what he's talking about it'll get noticed sooner so... win-win.

[@CFxSlowlyY]

Kristoffer Szczerbicki Music u cannot expect him to carry that team and win alot. Monte didn't have much success with CLG unfortunately. There are a lot of important factors taking part in a functioning team & organization as a whole.

[@venchenzo4493]

Just because you say you know what you are talking about doesn't mean you actually know what you are talking about.

[@OfficialJHoly]

That would prove nothing. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable or non knowledgeable someone is if they can't articulate their view points effectively OR if they do articulate it but the receivers or incapable of understanding it due to w/e disconnect their is between the two parties.

[@ClawsNGloves]

LS pretty much verbalized what I felt about the NA and EU regions for the last 5 years.

[@Greippi10]

Holy shit LS has come a long way since the days of SPOTV, this is ruthless!

[@MrJeo29]

content with ls

[@ryanlee8790]

In 2013 -2014 we had LMQ from China, arguably raise the bar of NA teams. It's only one piece of anecdotal evidence, but maybe it's time to allow for more imports into the NA region. The year LMQ came to the NALCS was the same year TSM had its best performance at Worlds in the Korean era.

[@cepheus9856]

I actually agree on Hauntzer point. I've seen so many times he kills jungle creeps while his team dies. It's a small matter but I've seen it since joined TSM. He still performed 2 out of 5 games compared to others even Bjerg Sven who did nothing, then Double who keeps dying. Still doesn't exclude hauntzer contributed to the loss with Biofrost. No one gets free of blame in a team game. Even early game wasn't planned by the team as a whole.

[@lnt3ch]

Love the video and discussions, Thorin you might have interjected just a bit too much on this one. You're usually very, very good about allowing guests to speak as long as they like. Cheers mate.

[@anjerkanjer3260]

30:06 WOW Duncan you edit your video's now? good on you man.

[@arkantoe]

You should've asked him does the best coach in the world (Kkoma) knows, or is it his players?

[@PuggFlippers]

I'd love to see TSM Lira and TSM Meiko, would make the team absolutely nuts. Take the spring split to focus on their English, then dominate NA and make it to worlds in Summer.

[@MonsPubitorium]

At this point due to how the team has played with him, and their lack of success, I think you have to let Parthe go simply from this alone. Leave the drafting/etc. aside, he has been the coach for a while now and the results from this period are a tad underwhelming. Yes, winning LCS is great and all, but with the players on that team that should be expected. He isn't putting his players in the best position to win.

[@Iversonwings1]

As a C9 fan I love this, Thorin talking about the failures of TSM at Worlds. With LS too? This is too good.

[@joshuegv-4492]

What an interesting analysis. First time a hear an in-depth analysis. Just hire him as a informational coach and thats it

[@s1mo-RBC]

I wish I gave a shit about LoL because this LS is super intelligent. LS, analyze CS mate. I’ll watch the shit outta that. :-)

[@jaydenenever2422]

I'd love to see ls coach tsm and they all learn a little bit more about the intricacies of the game.

[@MohammadKhan-ne4zm]

Can we get a video on Misfits achievements as a rookie squad.

[@LiveErrors]

*rookie squad with an experianced Midlaner

[@vonwaq]

LiveErrors having an experienced mid but everyone else being rookie players makes a rookie squad lmfao. you're talking about the team as a whole, not individuals.

[@LiveErrors]

do you need medical attention regarding your posterior?

[@rraune7515]

man you`re salty @LiveErrors

[@LiveErrors]

what? he laughed his posterior off!

[@Splashfighter100]

Reddit hasn't found this...yet

[@vitoat123]

TSM had an easy group until WE came in from Play-ins so i think that point about easy group is not correct but people love to repeat it

[@zero4sale]

Sosick it was an easy group for them. The only real challenge was WE, so in theory if they lose to WE only they go 4-2 if they dont choke but they choke once again.

[@vitoat123]

you are wrong there because FW is not a bad 0-6 or 1-5 team, they could have made it out if they didnt throw late games similar to EDG. WE is strong Misfits is probably the best EU team by far. TSM did not have an easy group at all. TSM replacing IMT in their group stomps everyone except LZ and they probably do the same or better replacing C9's group. i mean C9 didnt have to do anything to advance so how is their group not the easiest?

[@zero4sale]

Sosick the current flash wolves is the weakest flash wolves we have ever seen. And I know they are not a bad team but if you looked at this group at the very start without playing the games. You would have put WE and TSM as the 2 team to make it out of that group but with WE being the 1st seed. We wouldn't know what would have happen if they were put into that group with lz and fnc. C9 group was by no mean easy as Tsm groups, you have the reigning world champs and the resurging edg with their captain stepping back in. I don't watch EU lcs so can't really say if msf is better than g2 but if msf were the better team they would have won the finals and gotten EU 1st seed.

[@NeverNedDead]

they beat ahq 2 times and edg once. Thats actually good considering edg and skt lost one game against ahq

[@chrisklass7295]

2020 TSM still can't get out of groups

[@ChrisKornerz]

I have an issue w/ what hes saying around 25 or 26 minutes about when DL forced hans sama to back and then greeded for the wave to push and didnt back. You can argue that sven didnt feed enough info into them to ensure where maxlore was or at least having sven in proximity should he try to gank; but if youre forcing a back that early and youre down almost half ur HP I think thats a free chance to reset and possibly get an even bigger advantage or at least keep the lane even because staying on that much HP where xayah is full and has her mana back to enable more trades just inherently puts you at a disadvantage. If he backs on that play none of the gragas ganks happen but again there is blame to be put on sven not giving crucial info like that especially when its so easy to do.

[@tkadn338]

Solid review LS. I am a big fan.

[@mauricemaeterlinck8799]

2020 update: TSM went 0-6 at Worlds.

[@musicmikemn]

To comment on LS's thoughts on the draft in the final game; having players on champions or in team comps that they aren't comfortable with decreases the chances of winning. Even if in the hands of perfect players, the draft is technically stronger, you have to draft for the players you have. Having said this, I don't think that the draft was why they lost games this year. It has been a problem in the past, which is likely why people latch onto it as an excuse.

[@fernandomunera4494]

Duncan conducted LS erratic behavior so well. Fantastic interview.

[@bshinjp]

This is the first time I learn about LS and his opinions. I can't disagree. Everything he said is indeed true. Why all the hate on him?

[@Matt-wm1bf]

Would either of you be willing to do an analysis of c9 for worlds semi 2017?

[@Parmesan2402]

Thorin, buy an Amplifier for your mic. They are not that expensive and would level the volume.

[@ZetxQ]

DId you see how he said '' he is a reject'' in such a nice way? what a good lads thoorin is.

[@GameFactoryVideo]

Yo can someone link the guy LS is refering to late in the video, breaking down a vod?

[@nahinhas]

Hey Thorin, I'd like to give some constructive criticism, hope I'm not misunderstood. In some of your videos where you're debating/interviewing someone it feels to me like sometimes it takes too long for you to formulate a question, as if you want to state all the variables and nuances of the issue prior to the actual quesiton, and subsequently, hearing the person's response. That makes 70% of the video's time actually you speaking, not the other person (people), and although your input about basically all these issues is very relevant I think it might steal the spotlight a little from those interacting with you. Have a good week!

[@nateh8994]

Happy to see someone finally call out Hauntzer for the macro mistakes he made throughout worlds. Overall Hauntzer played very disrespectful to his opponents with his in game decision making. He ended up putting TSM into disadvantageous situations that don't look as bad due to his mechanical plays later. I have long found Hauntzer to be an arrogant player who in the international scene is held back due to his own arrogance as a player. Glad to see LS call him out on macro mistakes he continually makes.

[@sython135]

TSM this worlds comes down to SOOO much more than calling out Hauntzer for macro mistakes. TSM had poor draft picks. TSM also had some of the worst stats when it came to vision. Bjerg would never roam to get kills for the rest of the team. Hauntzer never roamed to get kills for the rest of the team. Even if someone did try to roam, they were spotted because they were shit a clearing wards and they were shit at placing wards. Part of the reason they couldn't get vision is because Sven was getting bullied every single game which allowed the enemy to place deep wards. Couple ALL of these problems with DL losing lane and getting killed, Bjerg not getting big enough advantages when he is considered "the best in the west" and Hauntzer not doing enough with his leads makes me wonder how they even got 3 wins. Everyone wants to blame Bjerg, DL, Sven or even Hauntzer now when at the end of the day they lost at team level and are all to blame for the results of worlds 2017. Just one more thing, TSM was down by a shit ton of gold every game but came back in about half of them and ended up winning. I don't see how Hauntzer's "macro mistakes" were the issue when they still won a lot of these games. If anything the lens needs to be focused on the first 20 minutes and the comps they chose to run. WE slaughtered TSM in game 2 due to drafting alone.

[@nateh8994]

sython135 I never blamed hauntzer solely, tsm has issues all around. I disagree with you on their drafts, as a whole tsm never hard lost draft except a couple occasions. All I was bringing up was that I was glad to see hauntzer be called out for his poor macro arrogant play. Which has been a problem of his for quite some time. He gets a big head because he thinks he's better than he is. As stated in the video. Hauntzer made great mechanical plays yes, but he also put tsm in bad situations quite frequently dye to his own poor decision making in game. Not solely blaming him. Just stating that I am to see other people finally calling him out for it.

[@sython135]

TSM in week 2 didn't change, they didn't adapt. In week 1 I didn't have a problem with it because you don't know what your opponent is going to do yet so it's more of a learning week to get a feel for your opponents. There were only two games I was unhappy with their drafts but they still important games. I was upset with Jayce getting picking in a tiebreaker match when TSM is already feeling the pressure from everyone and they have already shown they are clueless in the early game. I was also upset with the draft against WE in game 2. Other than that I was pretty much okay with that they picked. In regards to Hauntzers big head, yeah i'll agree he's a bit cocky at times but to be honest I would rather have someone who is cocky and fails then someone who is reserved and does absolutely nothing. TSM were the latter this worlds. DL was way too scared to flash or go offensive, Sven was a pussy in the early game and was getting rekt. Hauntzer may have been making misplays but at least he got leads for his team and made plays that world spark life in the team. At the end of the day TSM needs to completely overhaul their coaching staff. They need in game analysts and coaches that can help them actually adapt because they had SOOO many flaws.. it was pathetic really. The fact that they made it through the bootcamp with that shitty of an early game is ridiculous.

[@peinxd]

I see his points, makes sense. Tsm didn't lose that tiebreaker due to draft but execution, they had a similar draft to Lz during the lck final, but they failed to execute properly. hauntzer especially, failed to bully the cho out of lane and never got a full advantage to take over the game early enough to snowball.

[@michaelgammage4524]

TSM should add mikeyeung and run 2 junglers

[@LeeroyChenkins]

These are cool vids but it would be even more interesting to hear more constructive criticism when analysing TSM's faults. e.g. Pay Bengi to analyse games for faults -> Might fail if players don't comprehend and take in -> How can coach/owner get players to comprehend and take in then?

[@Tom-wb8pc]

The whole move TSM to korea thing did happen to a team though, but not in League. Envyus did the same thing in Overwatch and have destroyed the Na league.

[@uhis1686]

man this is hella interesting, does this LS guy have a youtube or twitch?

[@fayis4everlove]

How come no one points out that their first 3 losses were against Janna? 🙄 As a Janna main the pre nerfed Janna was insane. She can literally 2 v 4 at level 9 and they still prioritize lulu

[@Mrbrightside098]

"It's basically just abstract algebra" *Thorin scratches head*

[@johnkiin219]

We all know Reddit analysts are the best analyst.

[@AbirZenith]

LS , since monte left he is the only analyst I value

[@jaciunscripted]

i wish there was time stamps. dnt have 50 minutes.

[@VenusHeadTrap2]

21:49 LOL I now love thorin because this is just Gold.

[@sandrobatinovic3761]

A U D A C I T Y

[@letsgoooooo1]

Sandro Batinović to tilt

[@RiverMCZ]

WE NEED TO HIRE LS to HELP UP JESUS HE UNDERSTANDS SO MUCH MORE

[@mauricesharpe616]

Feel like I could learn a bit from this channel!

[@esportsweapon6907]

Wow. Thanks Thorin for this.

[@ryanmahon1]

Such a good point that the game is no longer 1v1. Faker doesn’t solo kill nearly as much as he used to. But you can bet that 2v2 he’s prime

[@umiluv]

LS is so right on about how clueless the general LOL audience is about pick/ban, champion win conditions, rotations, power spikes, etc. I put a large portion of the blame on how a lot of the casters don't pay attention to the minimap when casting and only focus on what's being shown in front of them by the observers. I often watch games that I'm interested in on mute because the casters often are overhyping the wrong thing and I'm often checking out how the play is being choreographed WAY before it happens. I loved listening to LS cast because, like Monte, he would give a different option that the teams could have done with the options they had or he gives the percentage win rate on the play they did. Something that a lot of casters do NOT do. Too much of current casting revolves around itemization (it is important but in the context of power spikes and when and if teams should engage in fights) and overhyping individual plays or even potential wins/losses by teams. For example, the Fenerbace game against Samsung was mostly talk about how crazy it would be if Samsung lost instead of actually talking about the fucking game and how Samsung could try and win. What a fucking waste of mind space...

[@courtney-tailz4773]

I would like to see a contest between Thorin and LS where the winner is whoever makes the most elaborate, long-winded metaphor.

[@soupkilla9]

LoL could of been the greatest esports of all time. In season 2 you could genuinely comprehend HOW a team is playing better or worse. For a spectator now its so hard to visually examine. And the room for error is so marginally little that teams say gg at 15mins. If you look at Dota, Dota 2, LoL's "predecessor", averagely Dota 2 have 35+ kills every game. With a lot of momentum swings and comebacks. LoL used to have smart, expansive game-play.

[@StevenRademacher1993]

Thorin as always love the video and more towards what Nick(LS) said about the name thing. I 100% agree you've said this a few times who gives a shit about what the name is. When I did used to watch your vod reviews I would think what you say and question it as well. After watching enough of your videos you would always say "nothing i say is gospel" LS keep up the good work with your coaching and being involved with league regardless of what the redditers say. I've taken your coaching videos to other games i.e Hearthstone played for about a year casually, this summer started playing more competitively got legend 2 months (around top 1000) in a row playing an easier deck now playing harder decks which now make sense than when Id try to play them. ANYWAY sorry for the long post, Nick and Thorin please keep making content love your streams and videos.

[@geminix365]

How do you have the AUDACITY to do that?

[@joeprendergast8457]

The Risk I took was calculated, but man, I am bad at math. = tsm Thorins content is very re-watchable, hard to say for youtube.

[@Joako184]

LS needs either a better mic or put some book shelfs with books or curtains too get less reverb in the mic. It's really annoying.

[@mosukiton]

Good episode. LS is as charismatic as he is knowledgable

[@poorboy2772]

Does anyone have Krepo's Snapchat

[@richardplaysguitar]

XD HAHAHAHAHAHAH

[@TsukiDeluxe]

Quick question why doesnt LS work for TSM if he is this great coach? Nvm i saw the end

[@arka267]

23:35 Actually I don't think they saw him recalling ( no pings went out from TSM when/where gragas recalled. ) and svenskeren saw there were no wraiths up (he didn't farm them). Since they knew gragas started red (kog invaded etc..) they could have known gragas was either topside krugs ( he could have invaded tsm's jungle, thing which would have been very very unlikely for lots of obv reasons ) or at botside krugs (the only possibility if u start red buff ); so actually Sven should have just seen wraiths weren't up, and alertpinged krugs instead of continue the invade. That said, I still think if you're TSM u should have known gragas was going to gank botlane and you should have just backed off. (ofc that situation was all due to the stupid invade and stupid fight that happened around midlane). They looked too much out of sync with eachother and Sven was underperforming with Hauntzer.

[@itomp1]

I find it really interesting what LS is saying about the coaches and the player not taking on the feedback about improvements. It's seems that the coaching role from an outside point of view is that the role isn't coaching in a traditional sense of feedback, communication and improvement. But more of a game analyst, saying this pick is better here and when this happens you should do this. But without the points that make a great coach in the first place, which is effective communication, there may be a better play or path or click etc, but without being able to communicate that effectively through the core of coaching the player just won't get it. It may be that in Korea the players are culturally more receptive to feedback and coaching from elders and people in that position, so they don't actually have to be good communicators, because what they say will be listened too, but in the west where the players are less responsive and respectful to the coaches and the feedback, then the issue isn't in the game analysis that the coaches have, but the way that they are communicating the ideas. People say that there is no such thing as bad dog, but there are many bad owners, and I feel this fits for league. These players at the top have got here some reason or another be it mechanics or decision making or effort etc, plus the game clicks with them at some level. So they are not bad dogs, they have bad owners. I'm not saying that all coaches are trash etc, but maybe it's time for the owners of these teams to restructure the org, so there are analysts who study the game and find out the best play or champ or build etc. Then they have the coach who gives the effective feedback for the player to truly understand it and be able to deliver on it. Telling Sven (just for example) that doing this is better than that without effective feedback or communication, doesn't show why, how or what effect it has and how it changed things and why it made X do Y, it is just shouting at a puppy that doesn't know better.

[@itomp1]

And this may sounds like I am preaching the basics, but it feels to me that all the coaches are trying to be the most knowledgeable about the game rather than impacting the player through coaching

[@Filiptantareanu]

Videos with ls are so interesting

[@mcrettable]

we're putting pressure on NA and our teams probably feel overwhelmed and distracted...

[@hypermeme6993]

When LS talks about league, it feels like its not league anymore

[@acsu96]

LOL that Kelsey bit at the end I love this

[@MrNrj6490]

LS is smart at the game and in his analysis, but I feel like he sometimes goes to extremes without thinking it through. A good example would be around 14:12, where he calls people who think TSM lost because of draft delusional. While it's obviously not entirely because of draft, as Locodoco pointed out in his review of the MSF/TSM tiebreaker (which I recommend, he has some good analysis), there were many parts of the TSM drafting phase that were problematic and directly impacted the game.

[@zero4sale]

In that tiebreaker draft, the game was mostly decided by the draft. You picked Jayce so you can have a strong split pusher/laner and win mid game when Jayce is so strong he 2 shots any carries or support. But the minute you don't commit to that you set yourself a thousand steps back when you try to team fight. TSM win conditions was to get jayce ahead of the opposing laner and have jayce draw pressure so the other 4 can have a 4v3 but that never happened. This draft is nothing like the tsm draft that won them their games. Cc/initiating top Cc/follow up/initiating jgler Mid game power spiking laner who isn't ryze Any ad who can abuse ardent Any supp who can abuse ardent That was how they were winning why not just keep to it. Just because Koreans do a jayce doesn't mean NA team know how to do it.

[@mouseman1234555]

Anyone watching after no worlds

[@juandelacruz-fq3yp]

A week later. Doublelift still has Flash.

[@lostn65]

Any time TSM is tipped to win the group, they don't make it out. Can people stop expecting TSM to make it out next year? Maybe that will change things.

[@IngoGarza]

50:46 the answer to that LS is that you are a horrible coach but you have good knowledge of the game. These two objectives are by no means mutually exclusive and should be pursued at one and the same time. If you learn how people actually functions and processes information and learns then you will be able to teach it, but you are not there yet.

[@siege1289]

This aged well

[@Artaxerxes.]

LS pointed out that Korean pros are monsters even off role. No wonder Faker smacked NA solo q with his Xin Zhao, Lee Sin (2016)

[@Dwane7D9]

its so great that LS is a cute lil gay boy AND one of the best analysts out there who's very intelligent and doesn't put up with reddit's shit. its so refreshing

[@Gabriel-mi9bz]

where's the video where LS says cut the western Sh*t

[@adenwhitfield]

what was the intro song

[@Shazland4]

I find flaw in the analysis that TSM did decently in drafts this tournament. Specifically stating that TSM "won" the draft in their second game against WE. Never in the history of league have I heard of a team drafting 3 loosing lanes being a "won draft", regardless of the champions selected possibly being better meta picks. If you are going to draft 3 loosing lanes that out scale, you better back it up with significant early game pressure from the jungler. Lee Sin was open all tournament. Sven is clearly a better player on Lee Sin then anything they picked for them. I think at some point you have to say " you know what this may not be the most meta pick right now, but this is your best champ and it fits our team comp." TSM played poor, but to downplay there drafts just comes across as observation bias from LS being a coach.

[@werwar27]

I think TSMs drafts were bad because they didnt play to TSMs strengths and weaknesses. LS makes the argument that they could work for KT or another team but that isnt what its about here. All their players have different weaknesses and strengths, and i dont thinkanyone has been sold on Hauntzers Jayce, or Bjerg on Ryze. These drafts COULD very well work, and they were all good picks invidually but not for TSM and this roster.

[@jasonmurray1771]

LS hit all of his points home and i think TSM should have him as their coach. Or at least have all of TSM watch this video