Tim Hardaway and Allen Iverson have beef over a signature move

[@chumba421]

Iverson did some great trolling in the later years, carried it to the hall of fame was a 10/10 line

[@yeon723]

Tim Hardaways tombstone "It was a carry"

[@markjackson6431]

and underneath that would be “i got skillz”

[@bigpoppa1234]

and he'd be right.

[@mavsfanforever7919]

Allen Iverson's tombstone would be beside Tim and says "hold my beer"

[@CloudSpirals]

​@@mavsfanforever7919 ...... Carry my beer.......

[@SeeingShadows]

but when harden bends the rules yall lose your minds

[@sirgogetter]

This was a fun episode; unique in that it wasn't hugely personal but more of a philosophical "beef" than anything else. That stands out a bit, and as a bit of a basketball nerd myself, I found this specific video particularly enjoyable. Fittingly enough, I picked up on where this was going very quickly because I recalled Isiah Thomas talking about crossovers on an NBA TV program one day where he specifically contrasted Hardaway's and Iverson's signature moves. He referenced the whole idea that Tim's "Killer Crossover" was low and tight, while Iverson's take was higher and looser; I don't think Thomas necessarily called or even implied Iverson was carrying, though, as I recall him being overall complimentary at that moment. But this is all to say that I particularly enjoyed seeing these three individuals tied together to this topic, and I was totally unaware of Hardaway's long-standing gripe on Iverson's crossover. It DOES makes total sense, though. As always, great stuff!

[@davymarcelo3901]

Well said, and nice shout out to one of my favorite shows “NBA Open Court”! I remember that episode well, it was hosted by Matt Winer, and the episode was about signatures moves. You’re 100% correct that Zeke was very complimentary of both styles of crossover. He ended by saying, “I’m glad AI’s crossover was on Jordan, not on me!” 😂

[@sluglow6357]

I remember that Isiah breakdown very well..I lived this “beef “ back when it was going on cause it wasn’t that serious just mainly Tim wanting to hold onto to something he had like we all would & Ai never took it seriously..2 greats

[@sirgogetter]

​@@davymarcelo3901 I thought it was an episode of "Open Court," but I didn't know for certain, so I didn't say. Isiah tends to tell basketball stories quite often on the network whenever he's featured, so it wouldn't have surprised me when he talked about this specific topic. But yes, Open Court was an awesome show!

[@miguelladinodevera614]

​@@sirgogetterit was an Open Court ep that centered on signature moves and not necessarily focused on who did it better but who was innovative. Zeke broke it down as, and I paraphrase, "Tim Hardaway and I had a dribble that was inside the box. (Allen) Iverson created a dribble that was outside of the box."

[@miguelladinodevera614]

​@@davymarcelo3901I thought Zeke was going to say that he personally mentored Tim Hardaway, Sr. since Tim is also from Chicago like Zeke. Zeke said on that episode that he knew Tim took the fundamental dribbling seriously. AI innovated something that's a bit difficult to master yet is heluva beautiful.

[@007TheLife]

Isiah Thomas put it best. Tim Hardaway’s crossover is a textbook crossover that stays within the box. Iverson’s crossover was outside of the box and had a shake to it. Both were great.

[@robertdavezac]

He was barely alive when Hardaway was working. You mean Isiah Thomas.

[@codystudliness4864]

Iverson's crossover was more of an Isolation crossover. He had to draw out his defender and then use it. Hardaway's crossover could be used in isolation OR on the run against multiple defenders.

[@mathjones5845]

Yep !

[@kennyunderwood3602]

there is no such thing as a crossover outside of the box......thats called a carry.

[@jas7374]

​@@kennyunderwood3602times change bud. Not a carry anymore.

[@brucewayne7831]

Tim Hardaway is underrated, especially when the best handles of all time is brought up. Tim had one of the most elite crossovers of all time. Grant Hill had a similar cross and would catch the best defenders with it.

[@jgallagher1359]

If he had the corporate hookup and went along wth the agenda he'd get to carry it too. MVP!!!

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

He was very good...but he wasn't anywhere near being Great. He was always that Borderline Top 5/Gatekeeper role. The NBA's version of late 2000s Clay Guida.

[@skyMcWeeds]

Even Grant honestly mentioned his crossover was a bit of a carry back in the day but still very effective in getting his defenders off balance and driving himself to the hoop

[@willywonka7812]

​@@jgallagher1359what agenda? This sounds like you're tying LGBT existence with corporate exploitation. Typical far right fash talking point

[@T-Rip510]

Everyone forgets how nice of a jumper Hardaway had. Id take Hardaway over Iverson, hes the better team player

[@enriquegarza3127]

I get why Tim is mad. All his career he was forced to dribble and do crossovers correctly. Technically speaking Iverson carries the ball, which is why early in his career he was always called for carrying. And then suddenly, the league relaxed the rule. Think about how many traveling calls can be called in todays game if the NBA was as strict as they used to be? What once was against the rules, is now "ehh whatever", hell I'd be pissed too. I understand Tim

[@justicefelipe4794]

Facts AIs is way easier to perform and doesn’t demonstrate true handles the way Tim’s does.

[@Her0the_1]

Ye a lot of people get mad bout moves today but if they don't call it can u really be mad?

[@darnellwilliams8783]

​@@justicefelipe4794yall haters mad Iverson did it better

[@lildubuoy]

​@darnellwilliams8783 Na, it's Iverson over everything for me and still agree with the OP. Both things can be valid in this case...

[@robclassified2280]

That’s not true! The league too that move away from Ai they called that crap every time in his second year. You have tmac, Kobe, ray allen , Nash , Gil all on record talking about it

[@cowboytanaka6675]

I love everything about your videos. The editing, the storytelling and the insights are top notch. Lots of love from Germany

[@UFOsAreRealArea51]

I loved Germany. It was lots to do there. ❤

[@Johnathonhuff95]

This was a one sided beef 😂😂😂

[@MauricioBarragan]

Yea thats called hating, Tim is a hater lmao

[@jamesrick7351]

@@MauricioBarragan Tim had the better crossover

[@RobertsLyric]

Allen Iverson didn’t have a beef. He never cared. Tim was taking shots at him since his rookie year. When you “beef” it has to be “two” opposing not one hating lol.

[@KZ3fps]

Tim isn't hating, he's just pointing out the obvious. It would be like calling out Harden's stepback as a travel being labeled "hate". The dirty secret is that the NBA always bends the knee when it comes to watchability because no one wants to watch a game with a whistle every minute due to traveling. They let a lot of stuff slide because of that.

[@John6-40]

​@KZ3fps Truth. That's why stars can take 5 steps now. Also why LeBron can ram dudes out of the way in the paint and THEY get called for the foul. Giannis can walk across the entire court between dribbles. Kyrie shuffles his feet. Dudes constantly take 5 steps and the NBA says it's all "gather" lol. Back in the day, they tried to play by the rules. Now they don't and kids look at old footage and think those old players just sucked when they were just playing by the rules. 😂

[@darnellwilliams8783]

​@@jackkennedy1963jfknah Yall casuals Tim Hardawy was just a old hater he was jealous of Allen iverson because Iverson took the move and made it ten times better

[@darnellwilliams8783]

​@@KZ3fpstim is a old hater and yall casuals

[@John6-40]

Also, before anyone gets mad, I think there's a ton of talent in the current NBA. Just like there's always been. I just wish they'd play how basketball should be played.

[@Bugger22]

Tim’s my guy, as Isiah was before him. Tim and AI are two distinctly different players and should not be compared. Tim was a PG who could score, and AI was a scorer in what’s considered a “traditional” PG build. Tim definitely deserves more props, especially the way he rebuilt his in-game reputation after the knee injury.

[@hyperbomb02]

I think we can put this to rest. Hardaway had a perfect crossover for the 70s to 90s NBA. You go back earlier and he is getting called for traveling too. More so than Analytics/Spacing, we are living in Iverson's NBA. We still see more influence from him than any other player right now. Anyone who dribbles and puts moves on people, just look like they are trying to be AI while benefiting from him blazing a path before them. Yes Tim, you have an amazing crossover, people still do it. But AI changed the game.

[@johndavis9321]

All facts and that's what tim may not understand if he were transported back to the 60's where a lot of the rules were even tighter called than the 90's then his move would be gettin called Carry so it kinda goes both ways

[@gandydancer9710]

" AI changed the game." You say that as if it's a good thing. Curry changed the game. He showed that a really good shooter could stress defenses out of shape with the three. What did Iverson reveal? That you could score a lot if the refs let you get away with rule violations. These two things are not the same.

[@grahamgreene779]

@@gandydancer9710 yeah, it's an interesting debate. I do think some of the ball handling stuff has gotten out of hand in the last decade or so with the Harden related zero dribble (which to me looks like a travel) and blatant carrying by players like Giannis. I think the NBA looks at these things very rationally: we are entertainment, we sell tickets and court viewership and if our referees called all the dribbling violations taking place it would stifle the flow and fun factor of our game.

[@hyperbomb02]

@gandydancer9710 AI brought in a faster more fluid game. He is also way more responsible for off-ball offense, that was a huge part of his game making defenses chase him around the court, attacking off of cuts, hell spacing in general, cuts to the corner to stretch D out only to cut back inside for a floater. One of Curry's(Golden States) favorite actions is the Iverson cut. Not only that but we expect a level of ballhandling from big men that we never expected before. A Shaq style big, maybe even a PF like Duncan or Malone, might struggle a bit in current NBA as we expect stars to be able to put the ball on the ground and create. And yes, much of the zero-step and loosening of what consists a carry is a direct result of all NBA players evolving the game that Iverson kicked off. I also don't think we are looking at Curry's influence more than we are looking at Analytics. Spacing and shot charting was already a thing before Curry was drafted. His shooting (team success moreso) helped pave the way to faster adoption. And this isn't to take anything from him, I'm not doing that, just saying we would be looking at a similar playstyle in the NBA if Curry never touched an NBA floor.

[@hyperbomb02]

@grahamgreene779 I agree we've gotten a little far off what should be a carry or not. Iverson's cross which is essentially just a lagged dribble is pretty mundane to what we see now. Zero-steps and what not I think are more a euro step influence. Although advanced finishing with speed changes and whatnot I would not like to see go, but the zero step should be tightned up. There is a lot more full on carrys going on that aren't getting called. Giannis does that a lot, the "carry over" palming the ball from one side of his body to the other horizontally needs to go. I see Dame do it a lot too.

[@XcuzeTheMessDeer]

Allen Iverson was global phenomena ! Whenever I think Philly basketball I think Allen Iverson. I cannot really explain The Answer's impact in and out of the Basketball world

[@Zamppa86]

When I think Philly bball the first name that pops into my mind is Dr J.

[@XcuzeTheMessDeer]

Nope from the late 90s to the 2000s it was all about 'The Answer" he fit the city so perfectly. Lightening fast, oozed charisma and was so tough . Coming out of and era that was so clean cut to what AI brought. His impact is unmatched if you look at the league now @@Zamppa86

[@mamadoubarrie6607]

@@Zamppa86 yea cuz u old

[@dreamshakejake3736]

⁠@@mamadoubarrie6607 I mean, Dr. J was the only guy to actually win anything for Philly. AI could’ve, if he wasn’t feuding with his coach or too busy not practicing😂 now that’s a winning attitude!

[@Zamppa86]

@@mamadoubarrie6607 Dr J played his whole NBA career in Philly, made the finals many times and won a championship when he got Moses Malone to help him. Iverson was great to watch but in the end he only won one individual trophy and eventually ended up traded while Dr J retired as a 76er. Julius Erving was the guy who made basketball flashy and cool in the 70s. He was such a big icon that he was known even outside basketball as a style icon and he starred many advertisements aswell. His Converses were one of the first 'personal shoe brands' aswell.

[@gringostarr7858]

Glad Tim Hardaway finally made the hall of fame.

[@eddsworldlover]

its a little bit of a beef over the written/unwritten rules of the game but it's also heavily Tim Hardaway desperately clinging onto the biggest part of his legacy, bc deep down he knows (even if he'll never admit it) that if his association w the crossover is forgotten, HE himself will be forgotten and he's been fighting that fight for years.

[@coolnesss16]

This is a very good observation. Tim was the crossover guy. While His jersey is retired in the heat arena... As a Heat fan, sadly I would probably argue you'd HAVE to be a certain age to understand that the Miami Heat were trash before he an Alonzo Mourning got there. However his legacy is so outpaced by DWade, Haslem, Zo...He legacy is relegated to those obsessed with 90s NBA

[@LeonYuL]

AI got that move from his teammate and he gave him the credit on multiple occasions

[@jamaltaylor5]

Being a quick and fast 5'11 guard that played D, I had to perfect dribbling to beat larger defenders to the basket. The A.I. crossover never failed me and was never called as a carry but that Hardaway crossover they never so coming only because I could shift momentum so fast while doing it. Both great moves.

[@HexorMastah]

Nba refs calling carrying is a foreign concept these days

[@AirRusher1992]

AI and Tim had some of the most iconic crossovers ever but to see them having beef about which crossover is better is something we expected coming. I mean Tim's killer crossover is clean while Iverson's crossover looks great but there have been accused of handling too much or travelling or something.

[@ItsGamingFancy]

It's not really "them" having beef about it

[@John6-40]

I loved AI, but his cross was traveling and led to the entire NBA playing like that because AI got away with it. Kids laugh at Tim's cross now, not even realizing that's how a cross is supposed to look. Tight with no palming.

[@chiefs816kc]

Great comment.

[@darnellwilliams8783]

​@@John6-40 yall are casuals and Iverson did the crossover better

[@seananthony7494]

@@darnellwilliams8783 casuals don’t know what a travel is, they assume every time a NBA player puts the ball in the basket. They did it the right way😂😂😂

[@under-a-rock5444]

9:33 "...Hardaways holy war against false crossovers." 😂love it.

[@shepardice3775]

I really do wish the NBA would be a little stricter on carries, double dribbles and travels. The rules/officiating let the offense get away with far too much these days and there's really no need when players are so talented and offenses are so efficient. We gotta pull it back a little

[@John6-40]

You are spot on, but with the way Adam Silver talks, I doubt that ever happens. This young generation cares more than ever about just being "better" than everything before. So if the NBA just allows these guys to palm, carry, take extra steps, ram into defenders, set illegal screens, etc, then these players will look more "athletic" and "talented" than ever. That's a "win" for the NBA. This is why offense is breaking records right now.

[@jtaco4101]

​@@John6-40what? I would say this generation cares FAR less about being better.

[@djbhe]

​@@jtaco4101 Preeeeeeeeach!

[@johndavis9321]

I completely agree with all the advantages offenses are given nowadays the least you could do for the defense is not allow offensive players to be able to carry, and palm the ball and get a bunch of extra steps on moves

[@WadaMalone]

There's nothing worse when defending the ball. You see your man put his hand under the ball, so you move in for the kill since he HAS to pick it up now. It's the rules of the game. Then he hits you with the double dribble and struts back on D like he just did something.

[@theophilusjones6024]

Perfect timing, got a video to watch while I’m getting ready to go study 🐐

[@bigguy8435]

Senna vs Prost, or Schumacher vs Hill Beef History would be awesome

[@alexchen5445]

I know Hunt and Landa has already been done by the 2013 movie Rush, but I still think it'd be cool. F1 is full of iconic rivalries.

[@JoaoPedro-nu9bp]

​@@alexchen5445I don't think they had a beef. Surprisingly Lauda respected Hunt a lot

[@bigguy8435]

@@alexchen5445 I wish SB would do more motorsport content, like: - Lots of Beef History (Hunt x Lauda, Piquet x Mansell, Rosberg x Hamilton, Alonso x Hamilton, Busch x Spencer, to name a few) - Rewinder: Senna and Prost crash at 1990's Japanese GP, Ferrari winning at Le Mans after God knows how many years, Ford's victory at Le Mans in 1966, Dan Wheldon's final victory at the Indy 500, Math Kenseth's crashes Joey Logano out of the championship, Dale Earnhardt's win at Daytona in 2001, Schumacher's 1st championship with Ferrari in 2000, Massa's win at the 2006 Brazilian GP, Hamilton's last curve overtake at Interlagos, just to name a few) - Untitled: Felipe Massa (F1), Juan Pablo Montoya (F1), Stirling Moss (F1), Mark Webber (F1), Chris Amon (F1), Carlos Reutemann (F1), Helio Castroneves (Indycar), Denny Hamlin (Nascar) - Collapse: Ferrari post Jean Todt, McLaren post 2012, BMW Sauber post 2008, Williams post 2004 - Weird Rules: Nascar's Playoff system and Stage Racing, F1's point deduction system in the 80's, Formula E as a whole Honestly, it's a minefield of content, I wish they dive more often into it

[@jdapaul1351]

YES. Secret Base should do motorsports content. They did it in cycling (Armstrong vs Lemond).

[@RD-zx6py]

Schumacher was a disgusting cheat. He should have had that title he won by deliberately crashing into Hill stripped from him.

[@TheCompanyMan]

This was good. One of the best i've seen in a minute.

[@sphixion]

Nowadays you can put the ball in your check in luggage and take a plane to the basket.

[@cryogenixoldskool5803]

It's all about the Killer Crossover

[@ShareefusMaximus]

I've been following Allen Iverson since I saw him as a freshman at Georgetown. He learned that crossover as a sophomore and was dominant as a freshman without it. Everyone plays the game the way they call it. Every Tim Hardaway spin is a carry that no one called. Today you can switch pivot feet after a drive. They change the rules to create more highlights and grow their business. Like they told Tim when they traded him, "It's a business."

[@Kinlui1022]

It's a little sad, as I've grew up with Timmy and AI trying to mimick both their moves. Because for me, regardless of the "carrying" debate, their crossovers are fundamentally different. UTEP Twosteps is about dancing on your rhythm so you trip up yourself when Tim change momentum from under you, while AI's crossers are more a misdirection, exaggreate and linger on one side just to drag it back to cross you up. As a student of both of these masters, I think both should be praised.

[@Mrgiftedsoul]

One is a carry the other isn’t

[@TeacherLegendary]

You got to admit Tim's crossover is cleaner

[@youngninotube]

I’ve been highly impressed with this series but you guess just presented gold to the masses. Please do more 90s beef 🔥🔥 NBA, MLB, NFL

[@mang0donald874]

Amazing video content as always. This channel is the top sports journalism channel on the internet. Thank you for your hard work y'all. 10/10 as always.

[@penkima4923]

Got nothing to do with journalism. It's biased rant.

[@allwilkennels9809]

Finest crossver vs streetball crossover both affective

[@Juicepluggedin]

Ahhh waking up @ 4am and watching this while eating breakfast is first class big ups from Australia

[@andrewcook1246]

Iverson's was a carry as legendary as it is. Hardaway is textbook perfected.

[@StefanH-u4y]

No it wasn't

[@MikePowers-ed8ml]

Kid your very stupid

[@penkima4923]

Half of A.I.'s "ankle breakers" were actually off-hand and elbow shoves, that weren't called.

[@excalipoor]

I can’t help but laughed whenever Tim says “carry”. Love this video.

[@J420-x6p]

I love how in the highlights u can see a lot of the inspirations guys who are in the league now took to make the dribble moves and cross overs we see all the time now

[@markjackson6431]

Rewinder: 2006 Orange Bowl 3OTs Beef History: Lindros vs Flyers Organization Overlap: Greatest College Football Coach (Saban) and the Greatest NFL Coach (Belichick) coaching in the same division Untitled: Reggie Miller Untitled: Ken Griffey Junior Untitled: Jim Kelly Collapse: Early 90s Bills Untitled: Red Sox Players (particular Yaz) Prism: Steph Curry and all those mid major players Rewinder: The Catch By Willie Rewinder: Hank Aaron and Bonds breaking the respective HR record Untitled: Don Nelson

[@aceassn716]

Theres a video already but That Lindross trade is still going on talk about a ripple effect So many teams trading each other picks, players, cash.. that trade can still be traced to everything since.. really incredible its ocean deep knowledge hahaha

[@valdu5899]

I was literally thinking about beef history today

[@dxmnnndanny2092]

Well this was randomly awesome

[@freespace9315]

YESSSS!!! SECRET BASE BASKETBALL VIDEOS!!!

[@vancewilliams8101]

This video just popped up without me requesting it, and I already gave it a thumbs up. I love the content you guys make could you please make a video on Stephen Marberry and KG

[@lorentzen.montoya]

Always love Seth's stuff in SB

[@s.m.9086]

Love how hbomberguy´s video has all of youtube grab by the balls so hard that every single channer now is citing correctly. I know that secret base has cited before, but the impact that that 3 hours long video had is unbelievable

[@goodfellabeats]

Finally! Been waiting on this since 1998.

[@DibbzTV]

Eh, the rules evolved. Like now Harden is trying to make that triple step a “legal” trend even tho it looks horrible compared to Iversons crossover

[@michaelbrantley6039]

Question: if you have giant hands like Jordan or kawaii is it still a carry if you dribble then palm the ball from the top(with your hand on top of the ball) and just hold it there, instead of just bouncing it back down like a regulat dribble???

[@penkima4923]

It's not a carry. In carry violation, the middle point of the dribbling hand is under the middle level of the basketball. Just palming the ball from the top, is technically described as permitting the ball to come to rest while the player is in control of it. That's not a violation yet, in itself. But if the player then dribbles again, it's called a double dribble violation.

[@dhruvadude808]

Hardaway used his killer crossover to get to the basket and in the early 90's he was explosive.

[@WarioSaysSo]

Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway was a much better player then lots of people refuse to credit him for. Not this Hardaway, but when I hear this last name, Penny always comes to mind!

[@moseswilliams1576]

This felt more like a weird rules episode than beef history.

[@Dudeisthedude]

You do good work, and have a good voice. You should get some personal recognition.

[@Djalo617]

“Iverson crossover, cheese doodles, grape soda.” -Pun 😂😂😂

[@JenniferBaker-c4h]

Is Iverson greater than Hardaway? Iverson is a SG. Tim is a PG. Won a Title. AI Flamed out

[@dariusjohnson9040]

Just took off my Step Over Answer 4s and cleaned them up and was man you know I got to watch this.

[@hattyhat]

The epitome of “you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song”

[@Dreadhead1018]

The breakup of Run TMC needs to be better documented

[@idougit]

This channel is slept on too much

[@bubot17]

The closest thing to to Tim's crossover is grant hill's and it's smooth

[@John6-40]

Yes! Grant Hill has a great cross at 6'8".

[@johndavis9321]

Yeah Hill cross and over all handles are underrated

[@penkima4923]

They aren't very much alike.

[@jamesrick7351]

not really. the closest was James Harden

[@jruss400]

You don’t kno how influential that crossover was coming from Tim Hardaway…all little guards practiced that crossover up & down the street it was a must too have that in your bag…AI took it to a completely different level that slight bend & hesitation took the crossover to a whole another level…its crazy how many forms the crossover took but this was the true essence of ball handling 🙌🏾🫡‼️

[@penkima4923]

A.I. didn't take it to another level.

[@Los150]

We need that AI vs Jason Whitlock beef.

[@Riles3152]

We need that Stephen A Smith vs. Jason Whitlock beef 😩

[@NotaPizzaGRL]

Jason Fatlock has been exposed as a homosexual in denial. Another point to AI.

[@claykingmuzik]

The best part of this vid is this guy not knowing what "taking guys to school" on the court is.. 😂

[@patrickjames163]

Untitled: Eric Lindros would be a awesome episode

[@markjackson6431]

and a Beef episode too

[@NathanAnderson-o3i]

"hanging dribble" 🤣

[@cndnbacon]

I feel like this is less "beef" and more "sour grapes".

[@flightbyrd]

This is accurate in my observation. NBA and in pickup games in the late 80's/early 90's no one carried. Around late 90's/early 2000's at the park, I started noticing more carries, not just with the crossover; actually had a short fistfight over a hard foul when one defender complained the ball was being carried. Last time I played in a league around mid-2000, it seemed to be accepted that on certain moves carries were being allowed. Later saw my friend's son in a high school game and carries were the norm. Same happened throughout the NBA over that time.

[@Mrgiftedsoul]

Bro I got into a fight too cause some dude traveled and said it was a euro step I have never played again

[@harnessworx3046]

Iverson carried. Thomas and Hardaway did not. It’s easier to spot than people think. When you are continuing your dribble and going into a crossover-your dribbling hand cannot guide the ball past the side of your body across the front from where its coming from-peiod. If it does-you are no longer dribbling the ball-you’re carrying or “guiding” it with your hand…essentially pushing the ball…it’s a subtle difference but it has huge implications on a player being able to beat his defender. To crossover dribble correctly you have to be extremely accurate and quick with the dribble-that’s why not many people did it because it’s (supposed to be) a highly polished skill.

[@atlguy2396]

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting both of these gentlemen in my life

[@marcomcdowell8861]

UTEP two-step was smoth because it was so fluid. Hardaway would come down the court and hit you in motion. He would hit you from a standstill and go to the rim. AI had to set a guy up with dribbles and guys running to fake a screen, and he did palm. Still, both were fun to see. Tim broke Stockton down in a classic shake that legit forced the Jazz to send help the next time, Iverson made Jordan look like a mortal on his. In the end though, I'll take Hardaway, the move was smooth and quick, he generally wasn't faster than his opponent, that's why it was so nice. AI could've blown by his defender without crossing over.

[@kapowjam3462]

It's interesting all these years later to look back and say "oh yeah, traveling and carrying the ball" 😅

[@johndavis9321]

Lol right nowadays you can pretty much do whatever you want with the ball and refs won't call it

[@PhatLvis]

"Taking someone to school," in Hardaway's useage, means "to school someone" (i.e., to Teach them).

[@penkima4923]

The creators of this channel hate anything traditional, and manly men like Hardaway. They have instructions to undermine men like Hardaway in any way they can.

[@trivialtrav]

Iverson definitely carried the ball. That's not a question and anyone saying he didn't is delusional. However, carrying is basically legal now and Iverson made it so. The NBA will happily change or ignore rules to accommodate popular players and teams. It's why stifling close defense will never come back. For reasons I don't understand, young people like watching constant threes and wide open driving dunks and don't want the defense to have to ability to stop it. I hate it, but the NBA makes money off of it. Tim is technically correct. It just doesn't matter.

[@2kReels]

2:42 I had this as a poster from a german basketball magazine...decorating rooms of me for years ;)

[@jasonwolfe3252]

Timmy didn't carry the ball like AI did.

[@valdu5899]

Oldhead alert

[@Its_JustSean]

​@@valdu5899he's right tho😭😭

[@jasonwolfe3252]

​@@valdu5899if it makes you feel better Kyrie is the best ball handler I've ever seen. He also has the cleanest handle more like Hardaway and Isiah than AI.

[@John6-40]

​@@jasonwolfe3252That said, I've watched lots of Kyrie crosses in slow motion, and he definitely shuffles his feet between dribbles. He's slick about it, though.

[@John6-40]

​@@valdu5899I mean, obviously he's an old head if he doesn't just blindly say the new gen is better. Zoomers don't care about rules or context. They act like a cult. Frfr, bruh. 😂

[@airpegasus5167]

2 Step Timmy For The W‼️

[@hichrisperry]

Love your videos. Love them more at 1.5 speed.

[@JalenRawley]

Great video, great story and a way to stir up some great conversations! Iverson did carry the ball, on occasion. As long as the hand isn't actually under the ball, it's not a carry... but where's the clarification on what "under the ball" is, right? More than 50% of the hand below the equator of the ball? How are you going to possibly measure that at game speed with everything else going on? Maybe someday we'll have an electronic ball with sensors over every millimeter of it to tell where the hand is on it and the ball turns red when more than half of the hand is touching the bottom half of the ball! I liked how Isiah put it on NBA Oprn Court: players like Tim and himself dribbled "in the box" and Iverson opened up and played outside of the box. I had seen other people do a wife, outside of the box crossover before Iverson, but the disadvantage was that it wasn't as fast. You could totally juke someone with it, but unless you totally shook them they could recover. Iverson was so small and fast he eliminated that disadvantage... but just watch the legendary crossover on Jordan: MJ had enough time to recover, was still in front of his man and got a really good contest on the shot. And this was on post-baseball MJ, who obviously was younger and faster every year before that. But look at Iverson's body movement in that crossover... he's got a little shimmy there to help sell the misdirection. Done right, that helps give a few more milliseconds of an advantage, as does his speed and ball control. Plus being barely 6'0" and having a low, fast crossover, even if it's wide, the defender has to reach real low to try and get their hand in the path of the crossover to deflect, which gives yet another advantage. Another neat thing, as I write a whole freaking novel here, is that neither Hardaway or Iverson really utilized the use of angles the way modern players do. That next level of crossover is completely independent of body movement and directional travel. It's not just a setup to create space for a drive or pull up, now it's like modern players have a separate joystick for dribbling movement and another for their leg movement. They can literally go anywhere they want and utilize that movement really well while doing whatever they want with the ball in the process. The natural progression of the crossover is so much fun to see.

[@kidpeligro7878]

Tim's crossover is the more fundamentally sound IMO His crusade is as much as an indictment of the NBA's relaxing the rules on ball carry as his criticism of AI and rightly so since if NBA were as forgiving during his time he would have been much bigger than his career turned out. Heck can you also imagine Isaiah Thomas having the benefit of leeway AI had, too?

[@cincinnatias]

Tim was just about the only player that didn't carry the ball while performing his crossover

[@Cyrus600]

its not more “fundamentally sound” if its less effective. its obsolete because AI changed the fundamentals of the crossover.

[@John6-40]

Amen. Kids always think these old players sucked and had no handle. That's just how you're supposed to dribble lol. You mention how good Tim and Isiah would be in this era. I wonder how bad some of these newer players would be without carrying, palming, taking 5 step "euro steps", illegal screens, double step backs, offensive fouls, flopping, etc. I miss basketball dude. Sorry about the rant.

[@TheFrostyboy419]

@@John6-40you just don’t like basketball do you cuz the newer guys are a whole lot more talented

[@johndavis9321]

Exactly as much hate as the old school gets could you imagine what guys like Jordan, drexler, grant hill, Mitch Richmond, etc. could do if the league basically never call ball handling violations and thy were given extra steps on their drives?

[@grantrmoore]

Kids look up Tim's highlights. Straight NASTY

[@austinhobbs2214]

Love all of these. Not trying to disrespect but can we dive into some more hockey beef? Loved the old ones you guys produced. If not still gonna watch the channel anyway

[@pt3or5]

Not a fan of hardaway, and I always loved watching ai, but tims right about this. And now we basically never call a travel unless the refs are in a bad mood.

[@John6-40]

Yep. I love AI too, but he pioneered this illegal handle stuff and now the entire NBA plays like that. I don't even watch the NBA anymore.

[@johndavis9321]

​@@John6-40not the entire NBA but I hear what your talkin bout

[@robertdavezac]

@@John6-40 Any recommendations for what I should watch instead? Because watching college players circle the perimeter and barely drive a couple feet inside of the arc before kicking to someone who's just going to miss their wide open three isn't exactly fun to watch.

[@pierrechantalcorley7928]

​@@robertdavezachahahaha

[@TurboGauchiste]

Iverson legacy is why usa is schooled by the rest of the world in basketball, flashy but inefficient

[@chiefgangmusic]

Makes sense him and Zeke would be close friends.

[@Eat_My_Shortz]

I actually liked Tim Hardaway a lot and always thought he never got the recognition he deserved. Now I see why.

[@RD-zx6py]

Don't google Karl Malone then. Guy's a literal monster.

[@Eat_My_Shortz]

@@RD-zx6py Not getting recognition isn’t the same as being hated for being a pedophile.

[@Hogtownboy1]

Like a sibling rivalry

[@EdeSands-do6st]

Not a carry for the record...your hand stays over the ball (actually while the ball spins in your hand) the hand never goes underneath.. which would institute a carry🤷💯

[@ronaldcole7415]

I was Timmy’s team mate at UTEP. Although he didn’t create it, he did teach both Tim and I how to cross over dribble. That players name was Jeep Jackson. UTEP’s starting point guard, not Tim.

[@javi__...]

This reminds me of an episode of the simpsons from 2001 where homer is watching basketball and complains that they dont call traveling anymore.

[@Void7.4.14]

I guess we can all be happy that Tim didn't start calling The Answer slurs.

[@SupaNatural28]

1:21 they didnt have to do Isiah like that. 😂😂😂. But 6:29 AYO PAUSE BRAH 6:36

[@tymon3y]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Screeeeeeee]

we want a saban rewind!!! better yet a full length doc

[@beauchang4741]

This was the most peaceful beef i've ever watched on this channel lol i don't hate it

[@NothingButNet83]

Hardaway was a very good shooter off the dribble

[@SomeonesNeighbor]

"I carried my crossover all the way into the Hall of Fame. So, there you go." Just. Damn.

[@GetRocStar]

Tim crossover was a legal move AI be carrying lol.

[@Nerdshrink88]

Well done as always. Now that they are terrible and BB is out in New England, may we see the return of a new Collapse for the Patriots? I’d love to see that one, even as a Pats fan

[@ndigogh]

You call that in pick up I'm leaving with my ball lol that's petty as hell

[@penkima4923]

You leave that uncalled in official NBA games, and the fans are leaving the TV screens.

[@BeastofRock3]

Really liked the music on this

[@benjamin29471]

Tim was my first favorite NBA guy. Great video. Love the old school vs. new. Two HOFers…

[@penkima4923]

Far from a great video. They wanted to call Hardaway the less skilled player, because of the slurs he said.

[@benjamin29471]

@@penkima4923 Meh, I didn't see it that way. Just an accurate telling of the story.

[@dwitt4574]

Never thought I would ever see a beef on who can dribble better lol

[@penkima4923]

It's not a beef on who can dribble better. A.I. is the bigger cultural icon, so the average fan says A.I. is more skilled than than Hardaway in doing anything and everything, because A.I. is cooler.

[@dj2raw370]

Just commented on Hardaway’s most recent IG post and asked why he’s obsessed with defaming AI’s crossover… his response(s) were telling

[@robertodell1903]

Look at the picture of Iverson at 5:44. His entire palm is on the the lower hemisphere of the basketball. He would carry the ball just bringing it up. Isaiah would do the same thing during his career and it would drive me crazy as kid. Iverson's crossover just like every And1 Mixtape athlete's crossoverf was an absolute travel. Even right now, the Professor's "moves" aka "hesitation" dribbles would freeze an NBA player. That's how he beats 6'9" player in his videos. It's nonsense. That's why I respect the hell out of Steph Curry. His dribbling prowess is done legally, with his hand mostly on the upper hemisphere of the ball. He dribbles like a modern day Bob Cousy, almost slapping the ball on the top. Modern day Crossovers/Hesitation moves are just cupping the ball, aka carrying the ball, aka stopping the dribble at the top for far too long and then resuming the dribble. It's cheating. It's travelling. I swear the NBA should puy electronic sensors in the ball to prove it and put an end to it. That said, if Iverson had to adapt to the true rules of the game, he still would have been an absolute legend. His skill set was that damn good.

[@rupertpupkin2660]

Still waiting on that Dana White/Oscar De La Hoya Beef History video!!