Tim Keller on the Culture Wars and Salvation

[@transparentzwindows]

So grateful for those like Jon Harris slowly and methodically working through the shell game of Big Eva.

[@holycombat]

As someone who used to listen to Tim Keller and Jon Piper sermons on the regular, I find these videos so very helpful. Praise God!

[@KarinAllison]

I grew up in a Christian home in East Germany before the Wall came down and Christianity was ALWAYS at odds with Marxism, NEVER would anyone have entertained a partnership of pastors and the communist party. At best, there was cold distance between the two; at worst, pastors or evangelists were politically imprisoned. (They were spied on by the Stasi for sure.)To see pastors in America today make the case that Jesus was the first socialist and actually would've agreed with Marx and the goals of the communist party (in fact, that that mix is the REAL gospel and anyone else just has a half gospel!) is insane and laughable to me. But here we are, it's real, it's happening. The Marxists got smart. They looked at America and said: we can't conquer this unless we get the pastors.

[@DepDawg]

So true! I’m Albanian, also Christian family, and when I see now that churches in the US (I live in NYC) want to leverage local politicians to pass laws to redistribute wealth and resources, my heart pounds. They have no idea where this leads because they choose to be ignorant. I and my family try to explain our experiences, but we are dismissed.

[@kerrylawson7515]

Good talk. Maddening subject.

[@mrhandsrevenge]

I got a friend in my study group away from listening to Tim Keller recently by recommending Mike Winger. Now he listens to Mike Winger and doesn’t talk about Tim Keller.

[@johntobey1558]

What if he listened to them both and critiqued them effectively using the Westmindter Shirter Catechism amd Gordon Fee's Reading the Bible for all its worth or reading good authors like: Phil Ryken , Dr. TRUEMAN, James Montgomery Boice or R.C. Sproul or Greg Beale.

[@johntobey1558]

Which one if these men had Tim Keller as a professor at Westmi ter Seminary before he became a Don at Oxford University.

[@johntobey1558]

Answer: Dr. TIM Keller

[@earlofbroadst]

"I'm Pro-Life!" *proceeds to vote Democrat* "What I meant to say is that I'm holistically Pro-Life, which is really just a fancy way of saying I'm a socialist."

[@orbyfan]

It's the 2020s version of the "seamless garment" argument used by the Evangelicals for Social Action ilk--Ron Sider, Jim Wallis, Tony Campolo & Co.--back in the '80s, when they said that in order to be pro-life you had to be in favour of a nuclear freeze, etc. The goal was to distract people from the main issue and get them sidetracked into supporting ESA's worthless causes. A more accurate label would have been "Religious Liberals Masquerading as Evangelicals for Socialism." Those mischief-makers are still around, but evangelicalism has moved way to the left to catch up to them.

[@trailtrs1]

@Frederick Shull why should that excuse fly ?

[@boringbiblestudy1813]

I’ve been curious if these Social Justice Christians are even really saved since their error seems so obvious to me, but I had an interesting experience that gave me a new perspective to consider. I needed some advice on how to handle a particular dispute with a brother, so I asked for advice from some people disassociated with the brother in question for an objective opinion, and I turned to a particular pastor who had mentioned a similar situation in the past that he had addressed. However, this pastor is moderately caught up in the social justice movement. He even greatly appreciated Keller’s social justice ideas though I don’t think he’s that extreme. I had questioned whether this pastor was the best counsel, but I went ahead and spoke to him about the dispute anyway. The dispute needed to be handled at the right moment, so I waited for the right moment to arrive for over a month. The day finally arrived, a critical conversation was had, and on that very day, the social justice pastor in question reached out to me and told me that the Holy Spirit had led him to pray about that particular situation on that very day. I suppose that could be coincidence, but it suggested to me that though the social justice issue is important, good brothers can be greatly deceived in this area while having a lot of wisdom in other areas.

[@jesskady1585]

Watching this a year later, the "coming for your children" aspect of a certain movement has become SO much more obvious and apparently true.

[@darrellpowell4331]

This is standpoint epistemology. Thanks, I understand now Jon.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

so good, thank you for the video.

[@stopmayhem937]

Keller is right. We did bring it on ourselves by listening to those like Keller who accommodate the ways of the world rather than calling them what they are - sin. This should be done in love, but it must be done unapologetically. Keller is an apologist...for the left.

[@Fedproman]

Look where he spent the majority of his career. It subsumed him no doubt

[@johntobey1558]

Rather than being, "subsumed" while consumed in the radiant light of Christ and led others to him fir the first time. He successfully preached in rural Virginia, before he taught Phil Ryken and others at Westminster Seminary ( Glenside, Pa).

[@billiamnotbob]

I can atest that all 3 are VERY good reads. Jon and AD did good work.

[@Saratogan]

Jon, your channel needs to be called "Monologues That Matter" 😁

[@orbyfan]

Don't forget that Tim Keller recently congratulated an atheist for being elected chaplain at Harvard University.

[@Mary_Kraensel]

Good Morning, Mr Harris. While I'm highly indignant about Kellar teaching falsehoods, I also want him to repent and be in right relationship with the Lord (and oddly enough, the announcement hurt my heart). What has upset me the most, in response to that announcement about his cancer, is the violent reaction of those who have said/written that they refuse to pray for him. To them I say, it's rebellious and unbecoming of you as believers to reject the command of our Lord and Saviour, to pray for our enemies and do good to our persecutors: you also need to repent of your hardheartedness.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Wow, really? People said they wouldn't pray for him! I never saw that. That's crazy! Let's all pray for Keller.

[@Mary_Kraensel]

@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Indeed. One comment really stood out to me in the comment section (on another podcast). This person said flat out that they refused to pray for him because of all the damage he's done to the church. What about the Lord forgiving us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?

[@Fedproman]

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." I guess Paul was hard hearted and needed to repent?

[@craigchambers4183]

Waited until today to listen as it gets too difficult to sleep if I listen when it comes out.

[@conceptualclarity]

I remember seeing on another website that there was some teaching--a book, I think--on marriage by Tim Keller and his wife. It was recalled that Mrs. Keller had thrown something--a dish, I think--at Tim, but it was all OK, it was all his fault for provoking her to anger. So while Christian husbands assuredly must keep their temper, Christian wives are to be cut some slack. I'm not going to lose any sleep over Mrs. Keller once upon a time throwing something at her husband, but the fact that they dredge up the memory and make it public to justify it is disconcerting.

[@heyitsyeh]

40 years of subversive teaching is not a Peter mistake. Please pray for TK!

[@Wood424]

Hi, I'm Tim Keller "I am Pro Life". Hi, I'm Tim Keller "I vote to end life". This seems to sum up Tim Keller.

[@susanbloise6287]

Hégélien dialectic brought to perfection.

[@cat-bg3rv]

What about throwing in "Pro-Love"?

[@jamescook5617]

I think there is an important difference between what Keller and his acolytes claim about future political utopia and that which Doug Wilson and his followers claim. Both envision a Christianity which impacts and shapes culture. However, from what I see, only Keller's side conflates salvation with their political vision for the future. In contrast, Wilson separates salvation for the individual and the process of discipling the nations. The great commission as seen by those in the reformed post millenial camp is a call to reform nations to adhere closer and closer to what God has already revealed in Scripture about best practices for governmental systems. The optimistic post millenialist sees a future with more and more Christian following governments where the right actions of individuals is only made possible by the redeeming work of God's grace. In contrast, Keller's statements indicate the future "salvation" is wrapped up in the removal of systemic injustice and the like. If individual salvation is the operational driver for Keller's utopia then he does a poor job of communicating it. Personally, my mind is not made up. I see virtue in the activism of Doug Wilson's views (or let's say AD Robles') on government. I'm inclined to say they are far more in the right than those premillennialists who see the Kingdom of God in only spiritual terms. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus has authority over all and yet so many Baptists I hear wish to relegate his impact outside the current politics. Or, they say the only way to change culture is for everyone or at least more people to follow Jesus. This sounds great on the surface, I mean, who doesn't want more people to be saved ? But, what does following Jesus have to say about welfare, immigration or forced vaccination of children ? If we are unwilling to unpack what policies are at odds with Biblical justice then this claim of revival as the means for political purification is really sophistry. It's platitudes, and since "narrow is the way" it's also just veiled nihilism since we know the majority of people will not follow God in the near term. We might as well focus on the Gospel since it is the only issue. But, it's not. Discipleship and seeking truth are important, right living and being salt and light is so important. If the church is just evangelism with zero focus on discipleship then it devolves into a pyramid scheme of sorts. The charge to disciple the nations is political in part. Beyond all this, the implicit dichotomy between spiritual and physical seems contrived to me. The physical is a subset of the spiritual. What is true reality ? The spiritual is the true reality and claiming the Kingdom of God is just spiritual Kingdom and not a physical one doesn't really make sense in my view. Anyway... I digress.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Keller has preached things that are actually anti-Gospel, not just obscuring the Gospel. He said that our giving to the poor is a picture of God's grace to us. However, in *Generous* *Justice* Keller insisted that we "owe" the poor as much of our wealth as we can afford. He said in an essay that the poor have a claim on our wealth, therefore we must be generous. By making charity an issue of justice rather than grace, Keller turns the Gospel on its head. His liberation theology background groups people into oppressors and oppressed. By making charity a justice issue that is a picture of the Gospel, Keller paints the picture of God, the ultimate Have/Oppressor against us, the ultimate Have-Nots/Oppressed. Keller's gospel then is that we have a claim on God's grace, and He owes as much of it as He can afford. That is anti-gospel. Keller said during a panel discussion that white skin benefits white people to the tune of $1M over their lifetimes compared to non-whites. He said whites have to realize they didn't earn that and that they benefitted from injustice done by others. Therefore, whites ought to give up some of that power and privilege. This too turns the true Gospel on its head. Instead of allowing Christ to impute His righteousness onto whites, Keller imputes the sins of others to them. This is anti-Gospel. In Galatians Paul did not have a lot of nice things to say about such people who preached a false gospel and laid burdens on people. He said that those who insisted on circumcision should emasculate themselves. He said that they should be accursed. In other words Paul said they should "Go to hell." I am not one of those saying Keller is not a Christian, but my anger towards his false teaching is similar to Paul's with the Judaizers.

[@orbyfan]

I'm still waiting for T.K. to renounce his position of white privilege and hand his pastorate over to someone who's not white. And if I'm privileged to the tune of $1 million over my lifetime, why haven't I received that $1 million?

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

I use the word "manbedders" which is good because it's Biblical and it refers to action rather than supposed identity. If someone reported you, then that won't help, but, if it was picked up by software, then that should dodge the rithms.

[@dubyag4124]

This is amazing research Jon. It reminds me very much of the church history seminar that included Billy Graham's rise to prominence - very similar to Keller's awakening: both men seem to have had questionable motivation for going in to the ministry. At least it was not in either case the pure good news of the gospel - but the "real" gospel they could get on board with.

[@johntaft780]

judge judge judge my goodness

[@dbaldwin237]

AD Robles did mention you and your work during his video, yesterday, Jon. That could explain the surge of viewers for yesterday’s videos.

[@stehir9260]

Keller is condescending and a sign of this is that he would love word games. Is Keller really "pro life"? What does he mean by "pro life'? Climate Change? CRT? He would not be a democrat if he were truly pro unborn baby life. Being a part of Biologos he certainly has contempt of anyone with a young earth Biblical belief. Keller's chosen world view has to deal with Hebrews 11:6 "he who comes to God must believe that He is". Is Keller saved? The indicators are that he is a liberal. "It is no wonder, then, that liberalism is totally different from Christianity, for the foundation is different. Christianity is founded upon the Bible. It bases upon the Bible both its thinking and its life. Liberalism on the other hand is founded upon the shifting emotions of sinful men." Machen, J. Gresham. Christianity and Liberalism

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

probably cradle to grave government oversight.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

I totally forgot about his belief on Genesis

[@elizabethcochran3395]

In personal interactions with church goers and occasionally hearing public teaching at Christian conferences (anyone familiar with CCO?), I have seen a correlation between how someone views Genesis and their stance on social justice/culture wars. It's not surprising at all that Keller has been affiliated with BioLogos and does not affirm the Genesis account.

[@EPHESIANS_5..11__Lady]

@@elizabethcochran3395 You're right.

[@dbrianc]

How can I go to Seminary without incurring student loans and debt?

[@TotallySharkyComplete]

You totally missed Herbert Marcuse's REPRESSIVE TOLERANCE!!! This is exactly what Keller is engaged in. What does Marcuse say in this paper? Repress the Right and tolerate the Left.

[@benjamingallows]

The social gospel can sound very convincing to the world and those with weaker biblical convictions. But we live in a time now where we have the painful benefits of being able to see the tragic fruits of this systemic centric gospel message. We can see how it has perverted justice. How it downplays and sometimes even ignores, or even worse, promotes the most pressing issues of oppression, the murdering of babies. It has linked arms with the sexual immoral, searing consciences left and right. And embracing an overtly godless authoritarianism. There may have been a time when it would be understandable, to an extent, for a young believer to temporarily fall for this kind of teaching. But the tree has bore it’s fruit. And it is leaving dead poisoned bodies under it’s shadow.

[@doctrinalwatchdog6268]

Tim Heller is bad. Got it 👍🔥

[@kaebersold7219]

Excellent critique here John. Once again one has to ask, where was the discernment of the Bidg EVA jokers? How did they ever embrace this guy from the beginning? Keller sure looks like he was nothing but a Leftist from the beginning.

[@joycesmith8299]

My question, also. I recall some prominent evangelical leaders during the birthing of The Gospel Coalition embracing Keller as "friend and brother" all the while admitting to having some issues with him. Because people I respected thought highly enough of Keller to call him "friend and brother ", I thought Keller and his Gospel Coalition were ok. I am no longer of that opinion.

[@Debbie3015]

This video and the last one on Tim Keller have helped me understand how and why I lost a very good friend (or so I thought) who is a big fan of his. I have never read Tim Keller, so I didn't realize where she was coming from. We talked past each other, instead of digging into what and why we believed what we did, which enabled her to paint my stated conservative beliefs with this twisted caricature of what I actually believed. I believe this is a small example of what is happening on a much larger scale throughout America. Thank you for shedding light on this, Jon. May God lift the veil of deception from our eyes and give us His love for our brothers and our sisters in the church.

[@earlofbroadst]

Why does Keller imminentize the eschaton? Yes, God is going to redeem the physical world from disease and poverty and pollution - *when He redeems it from sin at the return of Christ.* Christians cannot do that prior to Second Coming because we live in a sinful world (and when it is done at the Second Coming, it will be Jesus, not us, doing the doing). We can't build Utopia. The problems Keller describes cannot be eliminated while Creation continues to groan under the weight of sin because they are symptoms of the sin disease.

[@EPHESIANS_5..11__Lady]

He's not in this world anymore but his influence is still dangerous--a Trojan horse in the church.

[@HedgeFundOfOne]

The "salvation" = "cleansing and purifying the material world" is maybe the most concerning statement that Keller has made.

[@davidgodoy1943]

Jesus says it clearly as a child can understand, a good tree can only produce good fruit and a bad tree can only produce bad fruit you WILL know them by their fruit.

[@trailtrs1]

It’s funny how Keller seems to display the idea that certain people are too much of novice is on understanding in order to engage the culture, when in reality he doesn’t engage the culture outside of his church at all. I’ve been working the streets of Washington DC public housing Anacostia what you would consider the slums of the city full-time Street preaching and doing outreach for almost 40 years I’ve never seen the effect of any of these guys out here and I’m gonna tell you right now they don’t engage anything out here I’m not trying to say they have to do what I do but before they start telling me what I should be doing and how I should be doing they need to get out here and do something themselves I was heavily involved with the religious right on a national level the whole time I was doing this starting back in the 70s mid 70s so he has no idea what he’s talking about and he’s really just embarrassed by the fact that it offenses Democrat friends

[@craigchambers4183]

One can post on MeWe in lieu of Facebook and it won't get removed.

[@JulieRNeidlinger]

Build seriously on Rumble. Make KZbin your backup.

[@reynaldodeleon519]

TBH, I don't think Keller is a Christian and it's better for everyone to pray that the PCA to remove Kellerfrom office. So far, nothing's been done. I do however think Harrison has done an amazing job justifying the inklings I had about Evangelicalism back in 2008-2012. It's just that I realized how easy Evangelicals were being swayed into thinking that being cool & liberal was the way to be, but I really thought no one would believe me.

[@CuriousGeorge13]

Has Tim Keller done anything to change the position of the Democratic party on abortion? It's one thing to be a registered Democrat but say you're still pro-life, but it's a very different thing to be active in the party and say you're pro-life but still do nothing to promote that position. I honestly don't know if he has, but it certainly seems like something a Christian on the left ought to be involved in.

[@betty8173]

A pastor that I follow has gone to sermon audio for anything to do with the jab, sexuality, or politics, as he was in fb jail and put off yt so many times...

[@kathykardashian7750]

The left reminds me of Judas Iscariot. It is all about what to do with the money.

[@jetrpg22]

So a neat thing , Keller views sin as being a god onto one's self. And he does so because he knows, in his heart, this is his sin. Classic projection.

[@JonathanGrandt]

As far as repentance goes… it may be possible… and yet I think he’s in too deep.

[@impish22]

Jesus gave highest praise to John the Baptist... who was brave enough to speak out on sexual sin, and for that he had his head chopped off... Jesus never said that John the Baptist brought this on himself... Why isn't John the Baptist talked about more... ? He preached repentance from sin. Tim Keller seems to love to use "lofty" words to make himself sound so brilliant and in that way fool so many.. we are easily deceived by Tim Keller because it makes us feel like we are listening to something so important

[@danbrown586]

20:40 Why am I interested in a gay activist forgiving me? Doubtless there's plenty he needs to forgive, and perhaps I've wronged him, but his most fundamental need is to receive forgiveness, not to give it.

[@JohnSmith-cb9hb]

Id love to see him apply this quote to wives who are abused. Good grief this is some messed up thinking.

[@GerardPerry]

In fairness to Keller, Nietzsche did write a book called The Gay Science. Definitely not the wokest title.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

lol

[@mary-janechambers3596]

It’s so annoying when Keller says you OWE the poor as much as you can afford. Where is that in scripture? Oh yes, Judas led the charge to rebuke Mary for wasting the costly oil when it could have been sold and given to the poor. She “wasted” it on Jesus. You do not OWE the poor anything. Charity is a GIFT you give at your own discretion when and how you choose.

[@kaebersold7219]

If the quote is an accurate reflection of Keller's view about the gospel then, yes he is a false teacher and while I can't see his heart, it would sure appear his belief about what salvation is about, makes him not a Christian. He has left the gospel behind if he ever understood it.

[@lindseycward]

I left Keller and his militant amillennialism behind when he enjoyed the faculty of Westminster in their condemnation of theonomy in the early 90’s . I’m amazed that people are paying any attention to him or any of the rest of them given the downward trajectory that has been exemplified in both the church and the greater western culture and governments . They think that tulip is the end of reformed theology . That is good but it’s not exactly the deep end of the pool .

[@jordancain6491]

For a professing Presbyterian Pastor, he isn’t even confessional...

[@TheCruiseDog]

You have accused Keller of being a false teacher. That is a strong accusation to which you will be held accountable to God. Are you comfortable with that? Keller has preached a Christ-centered gospel his whole life. He has put forth the atoning work of Christ as the only means to salvation. He has affirmed all the orthodox theology of the global church as is confessed in the Apostle's Creed. That you and he have some differences on the practical theological applications as it pertains to society does not make him a heretic or false teacher. He is entitled to his personal opinions and his personal applications. But, that does not make him a false teacher. It might make him conversational, it might make him misunderstood (as I believe is your case), but it does not make him a heretic. Your strong personal opinions regarding social justice do not define your salvation and they do not define Keller's. Only Christ is the definition and I think that both of you agree on that. I think you should retract your accusation of him being a "false teacher" and rephrase it to "a teacher that you have interpretative differences with." That is more accurate and it does not put you in the Judgement seat of God.

[@jonnyrocket8138]

There is a difference between being discerning in weeding out and identifying false teaching and trying to be in the judgement seat of God. It seems like those on the left are very judging and accusing of those who try to base their understanding solely on the Word of God and are extremely quick to yell “no judging” the second a conservative stops for a second and says “hey wait a minute”. Almost like the left believe themselves to be the only ones allowed to sit in judgment. But like I said there is a difference between having discernment and being judgmental. Swallowing whatever anyone says wholesale without critical thinking is dangerous no matter who it is speaking. Only the Bible can make the claim to be 100% truth and without error.

[@johntobey1558]

Dr.Keller and His wife have had many positive influences on leadership within International Evangelical circles. By overemphasized the Radicalizatiin of :Bucknell University, Westminster Seminary you have neglected tge profound influence if David F.Wells and other conservative Systematoc Theoligians like Roger Nicole, Gordon Fee and others including Waler Kaiser on the intellectual and spiritual formation on this Saint who has terminal cancer. Have some respect for the over 10,000 people coming to faith fir the first time at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattem and the seminal influence of Church planting that congregation has had around the world. Some of your posts are good but this reminds me of the very worst aspects of tge Moral Majoroty in the late 1970's . You might want to talk about the effect that m I venent and the push back from Evangekical Orogressives in cuties like: Chicago, Massachusetts, ( Boston, Lowell, Lynn, Cambridge, Worcester, Springfield. . .in getting Carter elected. There was and Evangelical left way before " Evamgrlicals For Biden" was endorsed by Keller in the hate fest towards the Trump administration amd tge Trumplicans role in the collapse if tge GOP as we know it.

[@Charoperez1988]

Will not the God of the hole earth do what is right? Just because you don't agree with him ...dosont mean that he's a false teacher.... needing to repent .Yes lets pray for God's mercy for All of us ... including yourself.