Tiny Pi NAS: It's impossible to recommend

[@disarrayer]

Jeff, I for one like the more laid back style of the second second channel. Feels more authentic, much like most videos with your dad.

[@Level2Jeff]

Both styles have their place, but I've found this style video to perform much worse overall (in terms of overall views, recommendations, etc.)-however, I think the community side is a lot more engaging when I'm not as scripted / 'personality'ish. So I love having this 3rd channel so I can do this style of video more since they're a little easier to make, and I think still useful to put out since otherwise my thoughts get tucked away on my blog or on GitHub!

[@nohay4549]

@@Level2Jeff Well the channel is still new and I myself found out yesterday, while watching your video on 1st channel. I'd say it's too early to judge the performance. I like the idea of having this channel. Especially, upload frequency. It could also host some VLOG style videos whenever there's something new you'd like to share with us.

[@EarnestWilliamsGeofferic]

I'm concerned that Level 3 Jeff might just be him in his underpants recharging batteries.

[@disarrayer]

@@Level2Jeff I figured as much but I really have hope that the overhyped, click-bait, emotion-3/7-face-with-arrow-pointing-somewhere-thumbnail, “You will NEVER guess what happened NEXT” phase will be over sooner or later and more natural content will make a comeback. The digital natives are getting older and more irritable as well, so there’s that audience ;-)

[@juliancheal]

Great Scott, what will level2RedShirtJeff be like?

[@MrCaseyJames]

Great Scott! Love these even more casual videos.

[@Level2Jeff]

You've won the comment section today, sir :)

[@Rkrhlkum]

The moment you mentioned about the power supplies issue, I had that thought in my head to refer GreatScott to give a look to the board and improve it 😅😅😅

[@Level2Jeff]

@@Rkrhlkum He would probably make a very nice protection circuit so you could plug in both inputs :D

[@cobyhoff]

@@Level2Jeff We will make this circuit better! Letssss... get started!

[@leafworkmusic]

that's GreatScott at the end :)

[@chrislewis2262]

Great Scott!!! The moment you said "Stay Crea..." I knew exactly who you were talking about.

[@diabeticnomad]

Ohhh Colton @HardwareHaven says something similar and honestly hoped @jeffgeerling was gonna say Stay Curious

[@jpdj2715]

@@diabeticnomad - Stay Curable may be better advice for DIY types in these fora

[@rektide]

"Has a good cable" is like my uncle's advertising for his (very) old jeep: "Runs. Good hood."

[@Zmit]

A fair impersonation of Great Scott. :D

[@Level2Jeff]

I could never have an accent so cool as his though.

[@IT10T]

Long time fan and it's great to see you back making a lot of pi content, although I must admit that RF stuff is really interesting as well. Nonetheless, keep up the hard work- *it shows* and your channel will evolve as it has, I am just glad there is someone on tech tube representing STL.

[@ndbaker74]

I like the mimic outro idea, paying hommage of sorts to those who we all probaly watch as well is really cool.

[@oldarchillies163]

Just saying, I like barrel connections because they are sturdy and reliable. Dislike pogo pin connections because, well, they are not really either of those things. Congrats on the new addition to the family.

[@JohnADoe-pg1qk]

If these pogo-pins use some undocumented(?) test contacts, the board could stop working with a new Pi5 board revision because of moved test contacts - or just one. edit: spelling 🙁

[@Level2Jeff]

True; I don't think Raspberry Pi has recommended powering through the bottom contacts at any time; the ones under USB-C might be more stable, but other test points don't seem like they'd be as reliable in future revisions.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

0:48 "that does not mean I don't recommend it" , yeah but the title is "it's impossible to recommend"

[@Level2Jeff]

Well it's also impossible to not recommend! Argh, infinite recommendation loop!

[@mehedyamin]

Great Scott! I enjoyed the pace of the video.

[@AerialWaviator]

This is like a pre-release; a few tweaks to deal with bandwidth and power input limitations and this could be a great NAS option. Great video BTW, simple style, and very informative.

[@ArifKamaruzaman]

Hey that outro is one of my KZbinr. It's Great Scott from Germany. Stay creative, and I will seeeee youu next timeee.

[@JackMasterOfNone]

I’m getting Mr. Roger’s vibes from this video. I dig it!

[@Geekworm]

Thanks Jeff for the great review, we're big fans of Jeff too ^_^ Reply: 1. Bandwidth, depends on PCI SWITCH, X1011 use pcie 2.0 is based on cost considerations, in the design and production of X1011 in the Chinese market pcie 3.0 ic price close to 30 dollars (now the price should be lower, in addition, we are a small batch production manufacturing, there is no IC purchasing bargaining power), is pcie 2.0 ic price 6 times or more. We think the final selling price is too high to be accepted by consumers; another point to note is that PI5 is certified to support PCIE 2.0 only, not PCIE 3.0. 2. Power supply, TYPE-C is limited to 5A, if 4 NVME SSDs are read/written at the same time + motherboard + fan, is the TYPE-C power supply enough at peak? But DC JACK can provide more than 5A power supply, is there an extra option with DC JACK? Thanks again

[@Level2Jeff]

Thanks for the response! And definitely cost is the main consideration in choosing a PCIe switch chip. Some of the Gen 3 chips are outrageously expensive (in comparison to the Gen 2 chips), or are harder to get in bulk quantity. It sounds like a couple board makers might be finding Gen 3 chips for certain projects (I think someone's working on one for NVMe + AI or something like that).

[@Geekworm]

@@Level2Jeff X1011 shield now supports NVMe boot with the latest eeprom (2024/05/17 version), I read the release notes and this is from Jeff's bug report. Thanks

[@zaca211]

To be fair, i wouldn't worry about drive speed until these boards start coming with SFP+ or SFP28 interfaces for 10 and 25 Gbe speeds. The 6 Ironwolf drives in my backup NAS saturate a 10Gbe link when running large sequential r/w. The main draw here is power consumption. That same NAS draws almost 200w when using Plex or writing data to the drives. A device like this is basically a set and forget device.

[@AndersHass]

Nice to see the PCIe cable turning so you can get access to the microSD card slot. NVMe SSDs would also need to do high bandwidth reads/writes in order to heat up. I am not sure if that is possible on that board with Raspberry Pi 5.

[@solice55]

Haha! Nice Greate Scott! callout at the end. I'm just now realizing that many of my favorite channels are all very closely related. I've been subscribed to your main channel for a while, and looks like I'm subbing to this one too. Keep it up!

[@FlaxTheSeedOne]

DC Barrle 5v can be done via PoE Splitter, theres some that can do 3A at5V from af/at PoE. That might be a good soulution here. But it looks interesting as a small backup machine you can stuff somewhere. Also Internal speed being higher than the 1G still has the benefit of faster Rebuilds when reading and writing from the drives to the others.

[@CandyGramForMongo_]

Oh, man. He referenced Great Scott. I’m such a nerd for knowing that.

[@bryanteger]

What is this sneaky channel!? I really dig some of the shots on this channel dude. I'll mirror what others have said and say super chill vibes.

[@riffdex]

Next video ends with impression: “We didn’t sell it. We AUCTIONED it”

[@Level2Jeff]

hehe... the sad thing is they don't have a really reliable tagline/end. They have the 'this segue... to our sponsors' bit, but not too many other taglines/catch phrases.

[@igordasunddas3377]

He's JGE (Jeff G. Engineering), not LTT...

[@GeneralZimmer]

Heh, I get that reference

[@Thee_Dr_Evil]

what would be cool is seeing that CM3588 setup with some M.2 to Sata converters with varying types of hard drives, I mean, you could have 2 NVME drives for one pool, maybe a couple of SATA SSD's and some spinning hard drives, of course the power might be a small obstacle, but still that thing looks like a great bit of kit.

[@Level2Jeff]

That is an option-the hard part in that case becomes mounting/powering everything... though maybe someone will come up with a neat solution to that!

[@yomboprime]

Greatt Scott's outro ("Stay creative... and I will see you next time!!!")

[@wo88les]

I could be wrong, but with pretty much all companies moving away from barrel jacks, hasnt that left companies with surplus? meaning they just throw them in anything now to get rid of them?

[@nakfan]

The KZbinr you're mimicking is: Great Scott 😀 Great idea btw...

[@LeeZhiWei8219]

I'd never expect to hear a GreatScott esque outro from you 😂😂😂. Great video Jeff! Will Red Shirt Jeff be on this channel anytime soon?

[@RetroBerner]

I ordered a CM3358 NAS kit, I can't wait to play with it. I plan on using it for documents backup, I'll stick to HDDs for multimedia storage.

[@meco]

honestly this could’ve been a main channel upload

[@ChristopherHailey]

PiNAS is probably not the best name for it either

[@TheMrDemonized]

Especially when it's tiny

[@Groovewonder2]

​@@TheMrDemonizedidk man, I'm pretty sure this is bigger than the average. And I've seen a lot PiNAS in my day.

[@Mkungaa]

Wow, I expected that there will be some PCIe switching chip, but I did not expect that they picked ASM1184e... It costs around 6 USD in China, while ASM2806l which supports PCIe Gen 3 costs 7 USD.

[@rex_tang]

ASM2806l about 25 USD

[@geo1033]

@@rex_tang way better chip though.

[@ReneKnuvers74rk]

Great, Scott!

[@rich1051414]

I assume why would wouldn't want two power sources is, the VCC line then becomes a short between the two power supplies that may not be at the exact same voltage level. That may not be an issue in most cases, but if the voltages diverge too much... that is very very bad.

[@SLLabsKamilion]

I better hear Anton's "hello wonderful people" creep into that outro one of these days.

[@disarrayer]

Oh, and: GreatScott! ;-)

[@jarman365]

Great Scott!

[@goingrandom3558]

Can you make a video of the cm3588? Would love to see the power consumption and limits of the hardware. Especially because you should have a lot of flexibility. You could use m.2 ssds or use m.2 to sata adapters. And potentially you could upgrade the hardware piece by piece if it is required.

[@squelchstuff]

Joint project with a fellow KZbinr yet to be revealed? Little easter egg in the outro? Sounds like fun to me.

[@thegreeneyej]

… guys I’m not watching that person… but I agree with you review. Good stuff!

[@Level2Jeff]

Great Scott's great for electronics; many projects show neat techniques to build great circuits, improve existing designs, or even how to test things better

[@lmamakos]

I don't know what to think about the pogo-pins being used like that... Seems a little sketchy for a long-term "production" use-case.

[@primeral]

Hey Jeff, I'd love for you to review Geekworm's X1009 penta SATA hat. I just received mine and I'm doing ok with it, but I'm not as proficient to properly benchmark its performance.

[@gametec_live]

Also, that outro sounds like GreatScott? XD

[@thebyzocker]

moin

[@gametec_live]

this board would be amazing with the compute module 5... whenever that comes out...

[@zeev549]

How about trying A SBC NAS based on Odroid H3? It has 2x2.5Gb network and on board 2xSATA and m.2 slot. With NIC bonding can give 5Gb, and with ZFS with 2HDDs and cache+log on the NVME can be give huge volume + great performence

[@frankwong9486]

I added asm1184 one to four X1 pcie board to the pc which is usually used by miner, then put 4 nvme on it using M2 to pcie X1 adapter = cheapo extra 4 nvme It max out 500MB/s bandwidth but it about fit 4 QLC nvme ( when they run out of write cache then 500MB/s is just about right )

[@Level2Jeff]

True; for heavy write loads on QLC drives, especially if they have smaller/no DRAM cache, 400-500 MB/sec is probably ideal.

[@Danielddiniz]

It’s GreatScott but you need to say it with the right intonation! 🔊

[@Level2Jeff]

Ha! I know; it's hard to get that down without practice

[@PierricDescamps]

I really want there to be a cheap board like either of those, low-power which takes SATA M.2 rather than NVME, AND I want manufacturers to build 4TB (or more) SATA M.2 at decent prices. Basically I want a bulk storage solution that is compact, cheap and low-power. I don't think I've seen anything going in that direction.

[@andreaslassak2111]

They said that RAID is not supported. So?? Would be any guide how to create RAID NAS?

[@PhillipRhodes]

"Stay Creative" --> Great Scott!

[@HunterAnsorge-ok9jk]

Are they good for gaming? The whole setup, not just individual components.

[@OlavAlexanderMjelde]

Hello, do you know of a very small NAS with USB-out, so you could use it as a sentry drive in a Tesla and get it to connect to the home wifi when coming home? Some times I have to pull clips from sentry and then have to unplug the drive, so would be cool if I could just share the nvme drive via usb-c and also via Wi-Fi. Right now I made my own nvme 2tb drive for sentry, with an Asus nvme "box", but it just has usb-c

[@nerdegem]

I'm liking my cm3588 so far. I like that it doesn't use a flex cable connector. As ever for 3rd party SBCS, the software is a bit 'heh' but I've got Debian core installed and that's all I need for my project.

[@Ender_Wiggin]

Maybe consider the application with a google coral and or an FPGA accelerator. Slap an m.2 wifi card or an M.2 Can bus modules. Does not all have to be storage. I would love to see you explore the world of odd PCI devices to do cool specific things.

[@EliteTactical]

I've never built anything like this but want to. I want something small like this but also able to be very rugged. Could you not just break those pogo pin things off? What do they do ?

[@An.Individual]

Hoping for a Pi Hat for >1 3.5" HDD. OMV will not allow RAID if I use USB.

[@Level2Jeff]

It'd be nice to see a good 2 or 4 3.5" board, seems ideal for the Pi 5

[@richards7909]

Out if my depth here but lets try :D Is it possible to connrct a second usb network adaptor so that smb multichannel can be used? Be interesting to know if it works and where the bottleneck would be on Lil NAS :)

[@miltonb4522]

Seeing this reminded me that Pimoroni has their duo base available (though out of stock currently). I was considering picking one up but after seeing the issues this board has due to the switch, I’m wondering if I should just get another single NVMe base to use with my 8gb pi5 as I already have one on my 4gb 5. The single SSD unit is available and in stock which makes me lean that way as does the switch splitting the bandwidth and also not being able to boot from an SSD thanks to the switch setup.

[@deadadam666]

am i missing something ? my understanding is that nvme drives commonly use 3-5 watts when in use with peaks of 10-15 but with a theoretical short max of up to 25w ...... so surely you would want a 100w supply to keep this safe ?

[@Level2Jeff]

It depends a lot on the drive. Most cheaper consumer drives only use 1-4W in my testing, but many would overload this thing, like Samsung 980. Forgot to mention that in the video!

[@deadadam666]

@@Level2Jeff cant catch em all dude and lets be honest would be pointless to put high end drives in that thing. video idea though - id be really interested to learn more about the power habits of an nvme drive ? are there ways to inject power via capacitors to prevent brownouts or similar ?

[@gabrielnilo6101]

great video. I hope for a 2.5gb Ethernet in the next pi with a 9V input.

[@nohay4549]

Great Scott. Collab upcoming?

[@Level2Jeff]

No collab for now, but he's on my bucket list of folks I'd love to meet someday!

[@nohay4549]

@@Level2Jeff That would be a great opportunity for fans to meet you personally while you are in Germany. If you could organize a fan meet-up. You and Scott. xD

[@mitchellmnr]

Great Scott! how could you end like that! :D

[@anatoliytrifonov9812]

You are mimicking " Great Scott".

[@wimnanoe5887]

Great Scott

[@Mobile_Dom]

i picked up the 2 driver version of this before picking up the pimoroni nvme base duo... there's a reason I bought the nvme base duo.

[@Level2Jeff]

Heh, there is a marked difference in the build quality, but Geekworm has been getting better over the years (IMO).

[@Mobile_Dom]

@@Level2Jeff honestly, for me the most important difference was documentation, its my first time doing things on the pi5 and enabling the PCIe bud etc and the geekworm documentation for the X1004 was lacklustre at best

[@dazraf]

I'd be happy with a larger model ... just saying

[@Lachlan.Wright]

Great scott!

[@huboz0r]

You can get a 5v usb-c/a to barrel jack PD cable for less than $2. Is it really an issue? Great Scott btw, excellent choice 🙂

[@Level2Jeff]

It's possible to do that, but I don't know many people with one sitting around-and if you're going to get a new power adapter for it anyway, it's nice to not have an inline adapter to get to the barrel jack. IMO just powering the Pi 5 is simplest... though one concern (which I forgot to mention in the video) is some NVMe SSDs tend to peak at 8-10W. Put four of *those* in here, and you're trying to draw 40W or a little more from a power supply maybe only rated at 27-30W!

[@huboz0r]

⁠thanks for explaining, I didn't consider the peak load which is quite high for a converter cable indeed - there are no 5v usb-barrel cables that support over 5 amps so you'll quickly run into trouble. I would suggest stocking a few 5v and 12v of those, they make the bin of unused power supplies even more redundant.

[@Level2Jeff]

@@huboz0r Yeah; Raspberry Pi has to take on a little of the blame there too... the board will need more voltage at some point just to make it so we don't need 12 gauge wires going into the 5v supply lol.

[@spitalul2bad]

i am close to ordering the one Linus tried out. would love to pair it with some SATA M.2s

[@stratos7755]

Once it has at least pcie 3.0 x2, then pi can be an ok choice for HDD NAS.

[@johnbaldwin143]

Great Scott follow his channel too.

[@TheOleHermit]

Great Scott! But, you need to say it with OTT gusto, as if you're signing off the Mickey Mouse Club. "Y'? BECAUSE WE LOVE YOU!" 😎

[@worldcitizenoss]

GreatScott! From Baden Würtenberg, Germany.

[@iamnickdavis]

I like chill Jeff.

[@steubens7]

are you suggesting having a small pi nas is bad? that a tiny pi nas is worse?

[@nisenazo]

came here from the mini NAS video, never watched your vids before but if i had to choose between the two for presentation I like the laidback tone of this one way more. (I expect there are many that do like that though)

[@Level2Jeff]

Yeah, I know these videos won't get the views that I can get with a more edited style, but I enjoy making them, and I know some people like them more, so I plan on keeping smaller projects like this on this channel.

[@SianaGearz]

Mhm i want a SAS RAID so i can stuff it with old server disks from fleabay. Maybe on a Pi, maybe not on a Pi, looking for power efficient options. I think those drives would spend most of the day spun all the way down.

[@kunaljain7096]

It's THE GREAT SCOTT 🥳🥳

[@johnvonhorn2942]

Bob Ross If I wanted a NAS I'd probably buy a second hand Dell Optiplex {mini tower .. tower} off of Ebay for around £60 .. £70 and just fit some hard drives. Pis are great (I've got two: 3b & 4b) but by the time you've bought the power supply, sd card, case, etc a second hand Optiplex will be cheaper and have way better performance and upgradability.

[@miigon9117]

I wouldn't personally recommend having a tiny PINAS as well😢

[@romayojr]

who was he mimicking? help me out.

[@jbuchana]

Great Scott! His channels is well worth following for fun electronics projects.

[@romayojr]

@@jbuchana thanks - i'll look into his channel

[@anispinner]

I thought that "size doesn't matter" but here he says that tiny pi nas is impossible to recommend

[@TerminalWorld]

Is it channels all the way down?

[@christopher480]

sorry about the conversion?????...........fyi every country in the world except the US has switched to metric forever ago.....get with it man :))

[@Luis-fk6es]

A lot of geekworm stuff ive gotten has been great ideas but barely functional.

[@TealTechie]

My 1st guess would be I would Hardware Haven, 2nd would be GreatScott. Both good KZbinrs.

[@Level2Jeff]

2nd guess has it!

[@amateurwizard]

How did I not know about this side channel until now 🫢

[@Level2Jeff]

Glad you could join us!

[@robingrosset6941]

GreatScott!! too easy.

[@lappy65]

Geat Scott

[@Nayel-Khouatra]

Great scott

[@sootedninjas]

What is that plugged in to the phone that measures the temp? @ 06:26

[@SuperSpecies]

Thermal imager

[@Level2Jeff]

Specifically it's an Infiray P2 Pro

[@longshot789]

Great Scot!

[@Fractal_32]

9:05 Great Scott!

[@JoelHaasnoot]

Raxda still seems out of stock :(

[@feeeeeeeeeeder8108]

they sell metal case on aliee

[@Z-Ack]

Why does he sound like mr rogers?

[@SpoonHurler]

That PiNAS looks too big.

[@dukeseb]

What is that thermal dongle?

[@Level2Jeff]

Infiray P2 Pro

[@dukeseb]

@@Level2Jeff $300 holy moly

[@JaseTheAussie]

Hahaha - maybe you should have also tried to add a German accent :) ❤ (i dont know why it tickles me so much when the creators i follow are also fans of the other creators i follow :) )

[@Level2Jeff]

I'm pretty bad with accents but I shall maybe try for the fun of it

[@richardwillis4880]

New channel?