Too Autistic to Host an Autism Consultation Session (Edited Live Stream)

[@brendanwood1540]

Apparently telling the truth about the feeling of discrimination is a good way not to get invited back to a workplace also.

[@nicholausbuthmann1421]

Oh, that never happens here in the U.S., Hardy Har Har........Sarcasm for any "Dummies" who don't know better.

[@laiky4373]

You absolutely did the right thing. The neurotypical's obsession with everything being 'positive' only leaves people disappointed. I'd much rather hear a difficult truth than a pretty lie.

[@stephaniebarrows5428]

Sounds like you had different goals: They wanted to feel good about themselves and perhaps look good in front of others; you wanted to help autistic people who were being asked to speak up in an environment that wasn’t made for their comfort or best interests.

[@infidelcastor]

Unbelievable, they ask an autistic person to help reach out to other autistic people, and when you do, they ignore what you say. Fantastic.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

They just try to get cookie points at the inclusivity/diversity hype train. They have zero actual empathy about going deeper and seeing autists' needs met. Especially if it includes getting out of their comfort zone to achieve it

[@supermario35327]

and then thy wonder why mad🙄

[@livenotbylies]

​@@supermario35327no they really don't. They are not curious in the least. Wanting you to shut up is not the same as being interested in what you feel

[@MsCeegee3]

Now I have a rant!! As an NT person (as far as I can tell), who lives with autistic teen and spouse, and someone who used to teach adult education… preparation to set realistic expectations is essential before beginning a meeting. Because once it goes south (because people don’t have the right expectations because we didn’t prepare them) there’s soooo much more “bad press”!!! and harder to regain trust. We talked about creating a safe container. Orion, you were creating a safe container by describing the container. Especially important for people who have had lots of trauma. I heard nothing weird or negative about what you said. And you said it’s just the beginning and there will be more opportunities in the future… How is that negative? I agree with many of the comments here. It’s the NT lens just not getting it; being political and not logical. Or trauma informed. I feel like you were bullied when they repeatedly asked you that question. (translation: we really want you to bow out, but it would be really shitty of us to ask you to so we’ll just keep asking the same question until we’ve brainwashed you like bad cops trying to make someone confess to a crime they didn’t commit ) I wasn’t there, so I can’t really fairly judge, but I still want to give them a piece of my mind. It doesn’t seem like any of them have done their due diligence about the people they are trying to serve . I really try hard, and I still mess up. But I don’t gaslight my family- we talk it out. I want you to go back in the ring. I want you to have bullet points describing what was wrong with the way they treated you with counter bullet points what would work better in the future. (and wear a bulletproof vest. 😘) Be a pain. This is where it matters. Hardly anything new happens by making sure everyone is comfortable… make them uncomfortable. (I wonder if having an NT ally (for ND folks) next to you would be good? Or also on the meeting- as a translator? Again, with your insight and sensitivity I would love for you to continue to help other folks with autism. Then maybe the US will learn a thing or two from you guys?!!

[@elizabethf8078]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤Exactly!!!!

[@brendanwood1540]

I know the feeling brother! It's called toxic positivity! Which is a very neurotypical problem. If you tell the truth that hurts their feelings or something. Turns out they are on the wrong page. It's really confusing to me too!

[@markpeelgb]

The problem here is that they don't want consultation, because consultation means listening to and trusting what people say, even if they are angry or upset or disillusioned. It's dishonest. The same problem undermines consultations with people living in poverty, or with disabilities, or Indigenous people. They don't want challenge and ideas and new directions. They want to affirm what they already think and plan to do.

[@ShadoeLandman]

Or they want to be able to say that they're doing something, even if they don't actually try to accomplish anything.

[@eviefittell2937]

That is exactly what I wanted to say. All minority groups or groups that are discriminated against and abused... like women, different races, animals, the gay community, the disabled etc..... all of these groups and more are universally undermined. Even by the very institutions or enquiries that are set up to supposedly listen to them and consult with them. Discrimination and ignorant bureaucratic responses exist across all disadvantaged groups within society. It's pathetic. Let everyone be heard properly. And it is ridiculous to have 60 people attending a 2 hr session. Unless there are multiple 2 hrs sessions over many weeks and months, so that the topic and the people can be properly heard, acknowledged and given serious respect and serious amounts of time. People should not feel unheard, rushed or limited by ridiculously small time constraints.

[@Catlily5]

​@@eviefittell2937 That's what I thought. 60 people in 2 hours. No way that would work.

[@Catlily5]

@@RogerRamjet69 Yes. That wouldn't work with anyone.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Normies worship their own copes and emotions. And will bash anyone who dares challenge them

[@CuteCatsofIstanbul]

As a kid learning fancy words, others would call me a pessimist. I'd correct them and say I'm a realist because that's who I am, I see things as they are, open to both positive and negative possibilities. I think most people on ASD are the same. We just want to hear things as they are. Do not sugarcoat things, tell us things as they are so we know where we stand, without the 'positivity' fakeness. Sorry you had to go through this. Take time to recover and come back even stronger. Dealing with NT's is exhausting!

[@offbeep]

Similar dynamics in any environment where there’s a minority view or community. So much of society is predicated on majority rule. Any “other” is a challenge that’s taken personal because it’s received as challenging the integrity of the “norm”. If you’re in the “norm” you often don’t even realize that you are. Simply recognizing the “other” is a challenge since expanding your world view /awareness requires new/more things to “deal with”. Which often leaves the best that an NT or other member of majority will do is create “space” in their own world to recognize the other to alleviate the tension and preserve their own world view and their ego within it. They don’t want to expand society to include they want to assimilate because 1) it’s easier 2) it allows them to maintain power. All minorities face this.

[@Darkill13]

I have a feeling this "positivity" thing is the backlash of what's going culturally.. It is so often used to just shut down everything else and just show that a company, a person or whatever promotes wellbeing, when in fact they're just shutting a whole range of feelings/conversations down

[@camellia8625]

This 💯

[@eviefittell2937]

Exactly!❤💯👌

[@phoenixrising4995]

Just put on a plastic smile, well enough to get a paycheck that is.

[@MrAntinexus]

Simply speaking censorship

[@kingjames4886]

"lets not talk about what were doing wrong... lets talk about what you're going to do right."

[@yoyojae77]

They were totally gaslighting you … I felt sick to my guts hearing what happened to you. For me you are definitely on the right page … you are not moronic or negative … keep doing what you are doing … keep the truth coming …I love the way your brain works ❤

[@fliss9962]

Ditto

[@seebaseforsellbydate]

I work as a support coordinator for people with NDIS plans. I hate the 'planning' process. You articulated it so well when you said autistic people have to prove they need it, then beg for it, then get 40% of what they actually need, feel guilty and ashamed for taking it, be reprimanded for using it, then have it taken away when they don't use it. It makes me sad and angry

[@briannadevries]

Yes this is my experience as a late diagnosed autistic, my ndis plan is a joke and does very little towards positive change in my life. Thanks for caring.

[@SSJfraz]

Yep and it's not just Australia, it's everywhere.

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

Thank YoU for being truthful. Philadelphia Pa ❤❤❤❤

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

Thank You Amen ❤❤❤❤

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

Please do not go ❤❤❤❤

[@sust8n]

The irony is so sad and frustrating. It seems like neuro-typicals don't want autistic people to be autistic. They don't want to understand. They don't want to actually help. They just want to get on with their lives and jobs as "normal" people do. I, for one, would have appreciated your proposed approach to running the session. A little truth and honestly goes a long way. Even if some crazy people think it's "negative" because it's not projecting a false narrative.

[@emilwandel]

Yes it sets the expectations right.

[@dubuyajay9964]

Facts.

[@KAT-dg6el]

The majority but you can’t say everyone.

[@janewarnock8855]

Well for sure you feel unheard and frustrated! That doesn't lead to high expectations for others experience. I would agree that it would be better to set the boundaries before hand. Also so many consultations have pre determined results 😥

[@JustAnnaGsK]

I agree. Setting expectations at the beginning is the best way to handle a meeting where you have time constraints. If you know what you are up against you usually feel better when a less than ideal outcome occurs.

[@michaelmiguelsanchez]

You were asked if you wanted to be there so many times, so they could apply pressure and then later say that YOU chose to leave, not that they asked you not to do the job.

[@Catlily5]

Exactly. Force him out while making it look like his choice.

[@TheCloverAffiliate12]

I was looking for a comment like this. Makes me angry.

[@frolickinglions]

I think you were right to feel the way you did, Orion. It sounds like the consultation was either just window dressing or the organisers didn't understand autistic people. If they truly wanted to hear our viewpoints, they could have put in the invitation and repeated orally at the start of the session some tips. That is, given info about how many ppl could speak in the time available, that ea person would have x mins, that there would be say a warning bell when your allotted time was nearly up etc. If they didn't do anything like that, then of course some people will talk for too long, go off on tangents, others would miss out etc. Pointing that out to the organisers is just trying to fix their poor planning stemming from their lack of true understanding of ND people. I'm sorry that a "consultation" with autistic people wasn't devised by autistic people for autistic people. I suspect it's more a box-ticking exercise by public servants than a genuine attempt to engage with us so we can be lifted up. It is disheartening. And it absolutely is frustrating and enraging. To pretend otherwise is a stupid NT game. They're peeing on your leg and telling you it's raining. Same sh*t, different day from NTs. Hugs to you.

[@playnicebereal5850]

That is awful sorry they were so ridiculous! I got sent home from Kindergarten when I let the entire class know that Santa as a matter of fact is your mom and dad! I was hurt and did not get why it was a problem. I was once not hired to work with Autistic children because I’m autistic. Even though I specialize in autism in my work. Sounds like neurotypical corporate bs. Love your channel and thank you for all your honesty and being real. 🧡💜

[@camellia8625]

“I was once NOT hired to work with Autistic children because I am autistic” Such brazen ableism. I am sure the children themselves would prefer (and massively benefit) from having an autistic person working with them.

[@taramoonshadow7260]

AMEN!!

[@Catlily5]

That is ridiculous. It would help the autistic children to have an autistic role model.

[@thepublishinggame]

Wait... Santa isn't real?

[@Catlily5]

I told my friend at age 12 that Santa wasn't real. She burst out crying. I thought she would have known by then. I figured it out when I was 3 because all of the presents were wrapped with the same 2 or 3 wrapping papers. Santa would have had a different type. So there must be no Santa.

[@sarahfowler9741]

The way you were planning to expectation-set, and your choice of phrasing were, I think, excellent ways to approach the session and communicate to attendees. I can't understand how that really affirming phrasing could have been interpreted as negative

[@cathleenc6943]

As an autistic person, I would have appreciated being warned that the process would be frustrating (so that I could prepare mentally) and that I would need to do my best to say the thing I wanted to say most first, and to possibly reherse that so that I could get it out easily, rather than jist get up there and fumble around and get timed out before I got a single point out.

[@nicholausbuthmann1421]

Autistic Folk who speak honestly let alone bluntly ( Hence my adherence to "Don Rickles" ) are viewed akin to a Black, Hispanic, or Asian Steet Dude with a Cellphone mistaken for a gun ( Yes, we're viewed as a threat ). Heck that literally got an Autistic Boy murdered by the LAPD years ago.

[@rebeccabetts6338]

I understand your frustration...I am a 46 year old female with ASD diagnosed 1 year ago. How awful for you. Ps...love the Astroboy tshirt.

[@eviefittell2937]

I'm 46 as well! I think I have some autistic traits but haven't been diagnosed. I always thought I just had severe anxiety. But I can totally relate to being bluntly honest and straight to the point. I also get very frustrated and angry when logical honesty is punished if it threatens lies and false images or false information.

[@phoenixrising4995]

As an autistic I would just give the damn fake speech and take the money and accolades on to my next profession/gig. I'm cynical and all I do now is just collect the pay and give the bare minimum to make sure everyone is happy. F it!

[@errabbitc]

I'm highly autistic but 98% functional. I'm way more advanced at technology than the average people. I'm 35

[@LozzieOzzzie]

You definitely did the right thing. I feel like a lot of autistic people hate unpredictable outcomes and like to know exactly what to expect so being honest was definitely the best thing you could have done! It's a shame that so many neurotypicals write honesty off as being negative or 'ruining the vibe'

[@nurrrf]

Oh my god, this is the description of my life as a professional for the last 30 years. Positivity vs lying. "It's TOMORROW!" Thanks for sharing your frustrations with us. It's not surprising that this is how it worked out, because NTs and bureaucracy, but I'm sorry you can't continue to advocate for us with them(unless they somehow feel shame for it after this video, which, they probably won't unless Aussie committees are somehow better than Yank ones).

[@lowelljohnson744]

It's all an exercise in government bodies and or related associations showing "oh look what a generous person I am helping people" while doing the bare minimum if that to actually make a positive difference.

[@tmb9750]

Yes this feels like a lot of meetings I have been to as well as most group discussions with most NTs. You have to be "positive" no matter what and being honest about what is really happening or going to happen is extremely frowned upon. If you dont tell them what they want to hear then they claim we just dont understand or they are condescending toward our views instead of listening to us. The NT folks decide they are best at deciding what will help us instead of listening to us, the actual autistics who might better know what is needed to assist us. You did the right thing by being honest Orion.

[@michaelhoste_]

"An autistic person was too autistic to talk about being autistic". Yep. I'm right on the same page with you there!

[@carinaluxford241]

You are not being negative at all Orion, you are being realistic. You understand life from an autistic perspective and you empathise with how this situation made people feel. To want to enlighten those who don't understand in order to make the next time better makes total sense to me. I have no idea how this could be seen as negative. I would feel every bit as frustrated as you about this.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

​@@RogerRamjet69Exactly. It was a virtue signaling inclusivity campaign from the start. To show how good people they are and please the oversensitive autism-mama karens. But they gave zero fs from the start. And Orion fell for it. As most of us autists would if we were subscribed to lead this event.. .

[@LEO91968]

❤I always regret attempting to be in social situations. I try to do my best and it's never what they want. I've been accused of negativity when I was just being honest, too. I think you are amazing for trying so hard to make life better for the rest of us!!! I just can't handle having to fight all of the time to try to be treated like a person. I isolate now. I would love to be social; but, you just described my entire life in one example. I'm tired of masking!!! I just want to be accepted without all of the drama!!!I'm as good as anyone else!!!❤

[@jazmo6662]

I understand exactly where you are coming from Orion. I'm 66, discovered I am Autistic 6 years ago. I have a degree in Computer Science and I work in Cyber Security. I find that when I tell neurotypicals I'm on the spectrum, they then proceed to treat me like a child!!! They become very patronising or condescending and constantly ask me if I'm alright..... "Are you alright dear?" "Can you manage that ok?" I am independent. I own my home. I still work. I don't have a carer. I can look after myself. I'm not 90! I don't live in an old peoples' home!!! I get really fed up with people treating me like I'm doo lally! Then they wonder why I'm not "grateful" because they have been told they need to be inclusive. Being Patronising is not being inclusive, it is actually extremely insulting!

[@Catlily5]

I do need some help and I still don't want to be treated like a child.

[@nancyneyedly4587]

@@Catlily5 Yes, people should be treated with dignity and respect, patronizing is not that.

[@CGee2023]

You are amazing. Toxic positivity is dangerous.

[@pearlsongfeather1788]

You are blatantly Honest. Most people can't handle that nor the truth. Reading your book! Sooo enjoying it! You continually nail each subject in such a way that amazes me. I have those exact thoughts and feelings. I am Autistic with ADHD. So far in many ways you have addressed my story and inner workings. How comforting to know I'm not alone in how I view things that no one else talks about. Keep speaking your Truth out loud. You are helping many of us! Thank you. Omg you are soooo on the same page. Don't worry about that ever.

[@orionkelly]

I’m so happy to hear that you’re enjoying my book.

[@PinkPulpito]

You have to sell their program. They operate as sales people, the last thing anyone wants is an opinion that doesn’t upsell their platform. There is never going to be a non profit or foundation who admit to being garbage and serving no one.

[@Dtiic5iyxixg]

You are not unlikable or unwanted- your true village appreciates, respects, and admires you. Please look after yourself along the way. Choosing your battles and fighting them successfully in an NT world is stressful, so managing the bite sizes and frequency of exposure is necessary to keep you healthy, and safe. You are not alone!

[@ChristinewithaC]

You were right, Orion! You know more about the autistic experience than the team you had to work with! God bless you!

[@AutisticBarbie]

Our life chances are dismal and there is still way too much prejudice. I support you and other folks on the spectrum.... thanks for standing up for us and advocating

[@kalieris]

I used to work with social workers and therapists on committee-type projects and this toxic positivity thing is pretty prevalent. It’s intensely frustrating. I’m sorry you went through that. It’s a bizarre planet they live on.

[@desu5070]

I think being honest is very important in this situation. I think being comforting is also important, and the way you explained what you thought should happen in this video I think was comforting, gentle, understanding and straight forward I cant know if that is how things went in the conversation you had with these other people, but if it is, I dont think you did anything wrong

[@kennethjames4915]

Same thing has happened to me as someone who's managed to stay "employed" where I constantly get gaslit with the "everything must sound positive" problem. Being honest is almost never looked at as positive...work, groups, whatever most allistics always want to lie to themselves to be positive rather than face the music of their short comings.

[@brendanwood1540]

Preach Orion PREACH! !!!! Amen to that! My family is on their toxic high functioning narcissist page too. The "negativity" hurts their sense of self because it makes them feel guilty for doing nothing. So they blame us instead of themselves.

[@taramoonshadow7260]

Your BEST POINT was: There are MORE people watching my live rant on this podcast, than the ACTUAL podcast on autism! Well done!! Thank you! :)

[@Bekayvd]

This whole situation is the perfect summation of how neurotypicals deal with autistic people

[@bluntforcetanya]

You handled it perfectly. Taking this kind of stand is the only way to push change. Let them drown in a bad event.

[@nancyzehr3679]

i got invited to an autistic professional women forum zoom and was told to mute myself by the others chatting while the speaker spoke. after the speaker spoke, she asked if there was any questions and the only one was if she could mute me. funny thing was i didnt interrupt the speaker, only laughed at the funny parts and uh huh'd at the poignant parts. the irony was crushing.

[@superaygun]

Too real for the NTs. I’m so sorry, Orion. Your videos have always helped me since my late diagnosis two years ago. It hurts to hear this happened, and to see you so upset.

[@eviewilde354]

One of the biggest traumas I have to deal with as a female with (formerly masked) ASD who was not diagnosed until my '60's, is of repeatedly being silenced, gaslighted, criticized, ostracized, misjudged, misunderstood, wrongly accused or even scapegoated & 'banned' for simply stating obvious truths and observations that I naively assumed everyone would be able to see & understand & agree with once I brought it up or respectfully suggested it. (And I would inevitably turn out to have been right in the long run). I even went full 'whistleblower' in the 1990's & helped to expose & prosecute an organization that was a front for a child trafficking ring. But during the years I was involved in the court cases, the criminals involved created fake reports in the media publicly discrediting & denigrating me, & I would get stalked & receive phone calls threatening my life & my family repeatedly for years. Because I was so used to operating under high stress (that was my everyday life as a working, high-masking autistic/ADD mother of 4), I didn't stop working (& masking) until I finally had a complete breakdown (& autism burnout). But all that to say, I totally understand. It is incredibly frustrating & triggering to repeatedly be treated like YOUR the problem for seeing & articulating the true state of affairs. Keep up the great work!

[@kiliya89]

I'm a woman who went undiagnosed auDHD until mid 30s, everything you have written in the first paragraph is the experience SPOT ON. Interesting story. I'm sorry you were met with such difficulty just for doing the right thing. Thank you for sharing and know that as a younger woman, I am heartened to hear everything you have managed to accomplish (family, career, advocating) despite all the barriers. Inspirational

[@babybirdhome]

Why can’t I give this video a million thumbs up??? Honestly, as someone who’s undiagnosed but almost certainly autistic, there’s absolutely nothing negative about what you said at all. All of your suggestions were 100% spot on and are _exactly what I would need to hear in advance to level-set, know what’s expected of me and what I should expect_ so that I know what to focus on, what to prioritize, and how to try my best to tailor what I say when it’s my turn to say it. How the hell else do they expect an autistic person to provide useful, actionable feedback???? The problems that autistic people have aren’t because we’re autistic. Frankly, nearly 100% of the problems autistic people face in the world is because neurotypical people are idiots who can’t think, can’t listen, can’t understand, and won’t bother to even try to take someone else’s perspective for 8 seconds. I can’t think of a single problem I have in my life that I’ve ever also had when interacting with any of the people I know who are on the spectrum. What your group needs to be forced to read and understand are the studies that show that autistic people only have problems communicating with neurotypical people - we’re all perfectly capable of communicating easily and clearly with other autistic people. The problem is not us. If most neurotypical people had to spend even 3 days living in a world where everyone was autistic and only a few outliers were neurotypical, they would not survive that 72 hours - they don’t have the stamina for all the effort that would be required of them just to do the basics of staying alive from one day to the next.

[@Jae-by3hf]

I work within the DV sector on trying to change policies & campaigning for survivors and its the same thing! They just want you to be happy & light and ignore the real issues! Its so frustrating!

[@Mx-Alba]

From my autistic perspective, the way you explain it here, I absolutely agree with you. How can they possibly hope to help autistic people if they can't even accommodate an autistic person in their midst???

[@SSJfraz]

I hear you man. I've lost count of the number of situations like this that I've found myself in, where logic is completely ignored in place of collective peer pressure that wants to follow an illogical script that is of no real benefit to anyone. Just like yourself, i'm the one who get's pushed out for trying to do things the logical way.

[@nashmichaeld]

You are describing the corporate project management landscape. As a former Change Manager, it’s all about agreeing what the rhetoric and “key messages” will be to promote and positively reinforce the return on investment for the project. There is ALWAYS a canyon between what they want the outcome to be, versus what they tell and sell to the impacted. It IS smoke and mirrors, it IS manipulation through ADKAR strategies. Keep being honest man, or smile and lie like they do. I know what I prefer 😉

[@Tormekia]

People want to have these events to let the wider community feel like they've checked off a box and solved the problem. "Don't be negative" means "stop asking me to care more than I want to." It's like how any other marginalized group is treated when they get a public space. Happy faces everyone, we're doing fine. Only positive success stories! We want to make sure everyone else who is suffering knows they just need to try harder and it's not the wider society that needs changing. Ugh.

[@wintersnowowen2254]

Yeah I get the sense that people tolerate us but do not want to make changes to make our lives more satisfying.

[@Catlily5]

Probably they feel like they are doing us a big favor by tolerating us.

[@Segra13]

I think that "setting expectations" at the beginning of the meeting was a good idea. All humans are different and interact in their own unique way. I tend to be quiet in groups and feel like even when I try to talk I'm not loud or commanding enough to be heard. I think maybe you're the opposite of me, you have big bursts of energy and a voice that can be heard. I'm sorry that you had the bad experience that you did.. we need lots of autistic voices to be heard and that includes you! I'm glad you have this channel and are fighting for Autistic people in Australia. We need help here in the US for Autistic people too.

[@disodosid]

As an autistic person, i'm behind you 100%; those NT's were assholes and their dishonesty is gross.

[@anngreen5601]

thank you for what you are doing. Autistic people do not fit into neurotypical structures. This should not be a surprise! It is good to hear your anger, it is appropriate. I am just sorry you had to go through that. Also I think you have explained to me why I cannot stand people's insistence on being "positive" lets focus on being honest and real. I also think we are going to have to repeat this over and over again, until they get it.

[@offbeep]

The NT structure wants us to fit into their structure to justify and preserve it and their place and power. They don’t want to expand or restructure to include. At best they’ll accommodate and pin ribbons on each other for throwing the outsiders cake.

[@heathermurata4786]

Orion, I like how you were saying that it would be fair to explain to the attendees the following points: 1. We understand you all have stories to share that would be helpful. 2. We only have two hours. 3. We won't have time to ensure everyone can share everything they want to share. 4. We can't solve all issues for the Autism community in only two hours. 5. We understand how frustrating that can be - to feel as if you haven't been able to say everything you came to say - to wonder if you were indeed heard. 6. But this is a good start. We're going to focus on what we're able to accomplish in this first session. We will use our time as wisely as possible to ensure you have a chance to contribute the essential points you want to share. The goal remains that we all come away with valuable insights to solve these concerns. Nothing in that preamble was negative. It's a positive, proactive way to approach a group of Autistic people with valid concerns who have taken the time to engage and help make a difference. A heads-up like this helps them put things in perspective and helps them understand what to expect, which mitigates the potential for anxiety and frustration. It was a logical, fair, honest approach designed to help the Autistic participants. A preamble like that lets them know you respect them, want to hear what they have to say, and believe their participation will make a difference. And it helps them: 1. Embrace the need for patience 2. Adopt a REALISTIC understanding regarding the flow of the consultation (an agenda, if you will) 3. Focus on the 'most important point' they want to convey and the potential outcomes of the proceedings Occasional reminders about all of the above throughout the session would also go a long way toward encouraging the group and motivating them to continue sharing their thoughts the best they can. I recently told my adult Autistic son that we can't always solve a problem in one long conversation. It takes many conversations, attempts at implementing changes, and ongoing practice to improve a situation. It takes time and patience to resolve concerns, whether that's a relationship, environmental, logistical, or other issue. That perspective helped him immensely, and he has continued mentioning it so it will stick in his mind. These types of community consultations are the same thing, only exponentially more complicated because so many people are involved. Of course, everyone wants the opportunity to contribute. And, of course, you want everyone who takes the time to engage in that type of debate to feel that they've contributed and have been heard. They deserve that respect, and their insights are valuable. I'm disappointed this organization pressured you (and, yes, bullied you) with persistent questioning like, "Are you sure you're up for this? Can you be less 'negative?' We all need to be on the same page - are we on the same page?" minutes before the second session to such an extent that it held up the start of the meeting and made you so uncomfortable that you finally decided you should leave so 'the show could go on' and not inconvenience the people who had come to participate. They didn't want to be the ones to tell an Autistic person - a famous, well-liked Autistic influencer with a massive following - that his participation wasn't meeting their needs - to, in effect, fire him. So they pressured you into leaving on your own. That's no way to treat any MC, Autistic OR neurotypical. And that's no way to run a community brainstorming event or treat the participants at that event. And no attempt on their part to spin this to get people to believe they were 'just trying to be helpful…' 'just ensuring that you were comfortable…' would convince me, or any other logical person, to see it that way. You can ask the question once. "Are you comfortable moving forward with this session even though the last one didn't go as well as you'd hoped?" Then, listen to your answer. "Yes, I'm comfortable. I can help the participants put this into perspective in a way that encourages them to continue participating. I can give them an honest pre-session pep talk that reminds them we have limited time, lots of people, and obviously can't cover all their concerns in one session." Then take you at your word and move on already - start the meeting. You gave them your answer. You're comfortable. You know how to help the participants feel comfortable. It's all good. I support your efforts to make the world a better place, Orion. You're on the RIGHT page - YOUR page. Neurodiversity means that we're not always on the 'same' page. It's not possible. But YOUR page is just as valuable as mine or anyone else's. And having everyone contribute from their unique perspectives (personal pages, if you will) is needed to solve these problems. You understand how the Autistic brain works. You know how their emotions work. And you can communicate in a way that helps them feel comfortable and contribute to positive change. I would encourage you not to let this incident deter you from participating in future events. One bad apple can't be allowed to spoil the whole bunch. You've got this - and your efforts to put this unfortunate event in perspective (e.g., this video) should help organizations do a better job in the future. I want you to be part of that future. Know what I mean? You're the man for the job! And, yes, you're right. Two hours is a paltry amount of time for 50 to 60 Autistic participants to answer questions and share experiences that will help solve these problems. It will take many sessions, smaller groups, and more patience to get enough information to effect the change we need to see. Additionally, once we have all that information, it will take time, skill, and patience to implement the changes required and maintain progress.

[@Tmhjr_Baskar]

Well, someone as long winded showed up. :) At least you're able to be more articulate than I am. I write how I'd normally speak.....a jumbled mess, lol. That's the gist of what I wanted to say, but couldn't...mind just went every which way.

[@thepublishinggame]

"Different pages, mate!" Oh, you're so right. I run into this constantly with my neurotypical boss who always expects him and I to be "on the same page" on EVERYTHING and I have to keep telling him that he and I do not experience the world the same way and we're never going to be ALWAYS on the same page. And, of course, neurotypicals expect us to always see things their way but it's rarely done in reverse. I completely feel your frustration.

[@jecicox7605]

Orion i feel you. It is SO hard dealing with NTs. They are so immersed in their world of pleasant platitudes and socially-required falsities that they are impossible to be open with. They are so immersed in this that they don't even realize that they have structured society to operate in such a way. They also do not realize their biases about and against us. Please don't give up though. I know it is hard. But not everyone in the autistic community has as much of a potential reach as you. The NT community controls everything we need access to and the only way they will listen is if we drown them out with our voices. Every marginalized community is stuck with this eternal fight. But i want to give a little comfort: take heart, because on a long enough timeline, we win.

[@ingriddekauwe7027]

Yes the “normal brains” are eternally stuck in platitude-ism or platitudism (made up a new word lol)

[@Redmage913]

The follow-up negativity along the lines of “Well, you’re just taking this too personally” is a common follow-up that immediately shuts me down for the rest of the day. Of course, it always happens in a situation where authority is justifying its existence over you rather than having an actual conversation, and it’s socially unacceptable to speak against those words. Accept your verbal beating, keep your head down, minimize the painful stimming to survive the situation without a panic attack or lashing out, and wait for the next occurrence of derision. Anything else moves you to the top of the firing queue, and you really need your health insurance, don’t you… Comply or die is the world around us. So sick of this system, yet forced to integrate with it.

[@syberphish]

"So they're trying to fire me or get me to ditch, without trying to fire me or get me to ditch"... I find this situation to be incredibly vexing and I hate when people try to put me in that position. At that point I'm basically like, "all y'all can kindly go eff yourselves. Peace out."

[@jacobanderson9530]

I can’t believe they did that to you. Your an absolutely amazing person too watch. So much knowledge. Also nice Astro boy shirt :)

[@toddrf4058]

By the way Orion, your work is very meaningful to so many of us. Remember that.

[@LisaLGruman]

Bless you, Orion. Thank you for sharing your experience. You have really clarified what you went through, and I really appreciate knowing that. You blaze trails daily and are a gift to this world.

[@fionashephard4998]

Im sorry you had such a bad experience. Neurotypicals just don't understand honesty and truth. I once got sent home from primary school for correcting teacher for spelling a word wrong and unbelievably I was correct

[@emilwandel]

I started correcting my teachers to in primary schools. We were taught only cursive, so I corrected the notes of my teacher on the cursive excersive. I thought it is fair, that we correct each other. I learned hierarchy in school that day. My Mom did know how to teach me these things and just said, you don't correct adults. She did not lie and didn't blame me and just communicated societies expectations. I was so lucky with my Mom in that regard.

[@ingriddekauwe7027]

Oh wow that would have been me lol

[@MargauxNeedler]

If I was ur parent I would've screamed at that teacher for being so childish

[@MargauxNeedler]

​@@emilwandeladults need to be corrected idgaf

[@markwright3161]

@@MargauxNeedler I guess the more accurate version of 'you don't correct adults' is 'Neurotypical adults don't like their illusions of never being wrong broken, particularly by those they illogically deem inferior'. There are times they need to be corrected, but be aware they'll hate you for it

[@chriskaufman2262]

I also work as a middle man between a group of people who I am trying to help, (I teach and develop young artists)and a company that represents them. I use the same logic that you use, with h toe same passion of loyalty and service to my students and you sound so much like myself venting my frustrations when I engage the top brass with suggestions on how to best serve these kids. Everything you are saying I have encountered so many times and I’m tired. All of your suggestions make perfect sense, we must be upfront and honest to people so expectations are understood. The number of times I’ve been called negative or dismissed from the top is heartbreaking. Know you are right. As an Autistic what you said makes sense. This is distressing to see you go through this. We are such on an island and no one is going to understand us and I’m tired of trying.

[@theoneandonly1158]

We need to start an autistic commune. Seriously. We need our own land! Our own community. I lie a lot because i have too, to neurotypical people. The BS 'im ok how are you' 😂😂😂 my gosh. No im not ok as an autistic.

[@KennisRussellMusic]

What you proposed to say to the autistic participants was 100% what I would have wanted to hear. I would have taken your statement as... I won't be fully heard, but perhaps partially if I can articulate one or two specific thoughts and share them in 30 seconds. As an autistic man whom gets very frustrated when I'm not heard because of the stress from articulating my thoughts in words, your comment would have helped relieve the frustration of not fully being heard. . I'm sorry brother. Thanks for what you do and being willing to attempt to help in autistics in your country.

[@harperwiccan475]

As an adult American, I commend the work and advocacy that you do for those in Australia. I also admire your candidness. It is TRULY IMPORTANT that you continue to stay blunt with the government. Remember, strength in numbers. I hope the audience knows, understands and voices their outrage over not being heard. The government should work for you! I'll also add that it's ridiculous that they have intent to soften everything by using positive words but when I go out into the world I'm met with confrontation by others telling me "YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE REAL WORLD!" or "This IS the real world! GET USED TO IT!" - hey, I'm the Autistic individual who said keep the conversation REAL AND TRUTHFUL. I don't know why everyone else thinks I can't handle the real world, have a pessimistic world view because of factual information and data proving that but yeah 🙄 go on and soften the presentation with full blown rainbows and cherry blossoms. 👍

[@yukifoxscales]

Considering that almost every single other autism person I've met shows signs of ADHD as well.... expecting only a few minutes to work to let everyone else be heard is unrealistic.

[@queenmotherbug]

As an autistic person, I think you handled this as well as you could, Orion. I don't see anything negative about how you framed the truth of the situation. I'd want to be told about what to expect before participating in an online conference, especially if there's a good chance that I'd leave feeling slighted or that I didn't get a chance to properly express myself. There's nothing negative at all in going in knowing what to expect so I can make the decision whether or not I even want to participate. For conferences like these, autistic people should get to represent themselves in a way that they feel comfortable. I think there should be options for nonspeaking folks or extremely socially anxious people like me to write out what they want to say to be read aloud by someone else or to prerecord a short speech so they don't feel as pressured or on the spot. I think you should continue to use your platform to share the voices of autistic people. Thank you for being an advocate for us.

[@debysteele6846]

The story of my life. 😢 At 69 im wondering if i will ever be understood. I live most of my life in silence and in my own head.

[@HokeTheDog]

People with power call honesty "negativity" because honesty is a threat to their power.

[@moleath]

I’m so glad you guys are out there. I’m 40 and watched one of these videos and suddenly my whole life made sense. We really need a group where we can all be too autistic for each other 😂

[@CaptCastaway]

Saw the live. Great edit so far 👍. 4+ minutes in. I agree with the issues in the entirety. The secret… someone said to me about ignorance, but applies here. See neurotypical like adolescents. As a father sees a child. They are only children logically. Like asking a fish, how’s the water? They have no idea. Poor things. Have empathy. And Don’t let their ignorance get you like an informed colleague. You can’t change their perspective… yet. Change yours. It helps 😉 Be well 🙏 friend

[@yetanotherperson6436]

This sounds like so many situations that i have found myself in. I think (this is a guess) that you might of made them think that you were making them look incompetent. It's often a problem correcting people in charge.

[@ingriddekauwe7027]

Like our (at least myself) inane distrust of authority …. Because I usually spot all the holes in the “experts” authority on the matter.

[@bellagoth4291]

In a weird way it feels so reassuring that there are other consults that have gone to shit. I went to an in person one ran by the same group. And it was absolutely horrible, the questions were far too broad, did not outline what they wanted and the options we were given for us to contribute in other ways we’re not inclusive. I let them have it a bit towards the end, as someone who works with a disability Non profit who helps run consults I’m absolutely mortified about how horrible this has been going.

[@bellagoth4291]

I’d love to know how much the Autism committee has had a say on how these things are run.

[@rednarok]

12:37 so true! its not negativity, its logic!!!

[@NeurodiverJENNt]

I wish I would have been on that call with you. I would have backed you up. I'm so tired of government, corporations, associations, committees etc saying NOTHING. talking in circles, not staying on track, spewing meaningless fluff... It would help to acknowledge the problem THEN approach it with positivity in the form of solutions. How are we supposed to make change if we're not willing to have real talk? No, meaningless fluff feels comfortable and PC. Let's keep doing that.

[@kellyschroeder7437]

Any laws regarding discrimination present ??? I’d write a letter if able. Orion thank you for your verbalizing such frustrations and championing for us autistics 💙👊🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@tracynottage356]

Hi Orion, I am so with you, please keep doing what you are doing your way and please always continue to be your authentic autistic self, thankyou Orion ❤XXX ❤

[@amberjeanne9308]

That was the most positive thing to hear at the beginning of a consultation to set the tone and expectation for the meeting

[@amberjeanne9308]

I would rather know that a certain space won't be a place I will be heard so I could be prepared to share minimally

[@abigailmcewan]

You are soooo utterly refreshingly honest, straightforward, logical, realistic and true. What a wonderful role model you are. You rant away. What a ridiculous paradox. You make sense. ALWAYS. And I thank you for that. Keep doing what you’re doing. You are important to our community… and more. Thanks for keeping it real. Thank you for being such a champion. Much love

[@ambriasaunders1869]

As a fellow autistic person, if I was at a meeting and was lied to like they wanted you to lie to people, I would be SO upset! If I was told the truth, I would already expect it, so it wouldn't hurt me.

[@kieranoconnor333]

At the age of 27 I’ve finally came to the realisation that I might be autistic. The idea answers so many questions about my past. Since the pandemic and the lockdowns took place where I live in England, I realised I no longer wanted to go along with the normal way of presenting myself and really embrace my own personality… quirkiness, sense of humour, etc… But what I realise now is that I was actually just unmasking to some extent! I began to accept myself way more and enjoyed having the different perspectives I have, but what was missing was coming to terms with my rough and shaky past and understand why things have been so difficult and why I felt so out of place. Your videos are helping me understand my brain more and they are giving me a sense of comfort knowing I’m not the only one that feels the way I’ve felt and continue to feel. Thank you Orion 🙏 and thank you for being such a great advocate - stay strong ✊

[@LinauLee]

Orion, hang in there. The way you were treated is maddening. I'm not surprised you were shut down when you tried to share such good insight for the meeting. The nerve calling your truth "not being positive." OhEmGeez! Your help would have really been helpful to the ASD community. The trouble is they cannot possible understand how to support ASD people, They do have a different brain than us. So your reaction isn't surprising. Your channel IS making a huge difference. Think about it, this kind of conversation is ground breaking! What a privilege our community can finally shine a light on the awful treatment we go through (even when we go for help.) Perhaps, we need to try something completely new. I'm not hopeful they can be educated, but I do have high hopes, we OURSELVES will find a way to have an easier future. This group is priceless. Let's continue to take good care of each other. Don't you just love that Orion is giving us a place to vent & find understanding? We hear you, we have all suffered alone. Let's rise up, by helping each other's spirits be lifted. None of us deserve this kind of treatment. But at least we can feel less crazy, knowing it happens to us all. hUgz from Ohio, Lee

[@michellebressette2210]

I think you are SPOT ON! Being honest IS being kind, and is not "negative." "There is no 'same page!' " EXACTLY.

[@SuperGingerBickies]

I go through this regularly, with people who are condescending, humiliating, and invalidating. I'm not surprised that you feel angry and frustrated about this. It is difficult to stay positive in the best of situations. To me, it smacks of a box-ticking exercise on the part of the organizers who could not organize a fight between sloths! What did they expect? Greta Thunberg? Chris Packham? Rain Man?

[@SharkyJ40]

Orion, take a look into the term ‘institutional betrayal.’ This is actually the secondary trauma that hits you like a boomerang after the initial trauma of just being autistic in society today. I experienced this when Apple railroaded me after disclosing, when HR’s strategy was to remain ‘willfully ignorant’ of retaliation against a disabled employee for ongoing advocacy efforts. Zero retaliation policy not really upheld when it’s them doing the retaliation. My point: Not knowing how autism affects us IS their strategy. It’s how they distance and label us mentally ill or incompetent. It’s how they remain in power over us, which to me sounds like they’re intimidated by our capabilities and how we seem to see through it all.

[@mordaciousfilms]

Dude everything you say here, I totally feel this and hear this, I relate. I have felt like it's just this thing that's under the radar. Even down to biases against "body language" - it can feel like all odds are against me or us or whatever. The anger I see here I totally experience on the regular, and I'm reduced to "a jerk" or "negative" but to me, what flips me over the edge is THE INJUSTICES in these things. The injustice in NEEDING support in certain ways, and you're either deemed NOT DISABLED ENOUGH, but also TOO DISABLED to function in normal settings, or you're targeted and blamed for symptoms. I CAN TELL when I am being "othered" and I frankly don't want to have to detail my mental goings-on to be given grace and understanding. I am an honest, decent person doing their best, NOT FEELING HEARD, NOT FEELING considered... Of course we're gonna get mad about this idiocy! (In barring people who ARE under the umbrella of XYZ disorder or group from PARTICIPATING in discussions in said group.) It's how I feel when people say "I understand your disability but can you just rally and adapt? Can you stop doing (insert symptom here)? It's all about OTHERS in reaction to ME, never about what I'm going through, how hard it is... NO! It's about how the way I am bothers THOSE PEOPLE, and I have to sit and let people lecture me and scold me. It's humiliating. It happens with family, friends... this blame, this exclusion, the shame, the feeling trapped inside myself, unable to feel "received" by others, even when I'm super articulate and clear about it.

[@1997Jeep]

Thanks for sharing, I would have felt the same way. You are definitely right, as a Dyslexic AuDHD myself I struggle to interact when you go live, by the time I get a thought in to writing & then edit it, the topic has moved on. It felt to me like you where stating this limitation clearly, however the other people on the team did not understand or refused to care. (Perhaps mind blindness goes both ways and thay are refusing to listen to feelings that are different from there own) I have run in to this response meny times.

[@Catlily5]

Yes, neurotypicals are mind blind to us like we are to them.

[@elida2433]

You are not wrong, you are not "being negative " what you proposed to say would have been the best thing I could have heard from an experience like this. I've experienced this same thing so many times! I'm currently just trying to get a diagnosis and that is insurmountable, $3000 or more dollars. In the meantime my professional life is awful and toxic. I have to take all the labels they throw at me, that all my staff are terrified of me, that I'm negative and I argue with everyone. I hate it, I hate every second of it!

[@jamesnicoll8415]

Orion, I feel your pain! I’m NEVER on the ‘same page’ as anyone at work. Every day feels like a battle. I’m tired and just wish people could ‘get it’ about autism, and autistic employees. !!!!!!

[@mizotter]

I am sorry you were injured by a process that is presented as trying to assist Autistic people. You and all Autistic people deserve so much better. Your pain and rage are justified. I appreciate your efforts and wish that the community valued and appreciated your high-quality contributions. It is shameful that the Autistic community is being denied your expertise because of neurotypical fragility. I hope that you can find healthy ways to process such a horrible, illogical, unjust experience. Sending you BIG LOVE.

[@MandaPanda254]

'stay positive' so often is slang for 'we dont want the truth, we want to stay in our bubble of denial'

[@Citrine-K]

You have my full support, Orion. What you're describing sounds like an unethical work environment! Neurotypical authorities will often move the goalposts when someone's ASD behaviour is "too inconvenient" to deal with.

[@margefoyle6796]

If we all had a dollar for every time our practical/realistic advice was seen as negativity, we wouldn't need a job. It's soooooo frustrating!

[@pauljakeman]

Completely with you on this. I don’t know if I have adhd or not, but I’d sooner people be honest with me even if it’s something I don’t want to hear. Someone in my family is autistic so I am around autism every day, so I know what it’s like through that respect too. I think they were totally wrong to do what they did to you. I’m sorry that happened Orion!

[@anniewho4655]

I think the statement you wanted to make sounded very reasonable. You were not being negative, but trying to set realistic expectations which you knew autistic people would prefer. Anyone who didn't get that and was not willing to consider your viewpoint should not be running an autism conference. I know this was a frustrating experience, but ironically it made a greater point than whatever went on within the conference. Your efforts are appreciated.

[@bide02]

OMG you just described most of my life. I was always labelled negative.

[@arleneaufdermauer8208]

I am not autistic, but my son is autistic. The arrogance of neurotypical persons in their assumptions that they 'know' about how autistic people feel and should be treated is absolutely infuriating. I understand your frustration, but fortunately for your you, you seem to have a supportive wife, someone with whom you can talk about your struggles. Keep strong.

[@mutantboy8888]

I Thank God for you and your channel! When I saw your video, bells began to ring, and puzzle pieces fell into place! It changed my life! You have a gift for communication of what its like to be Autistic! So Funny! Dont worry about the haters... They want a bureaucratic little seminar, nice and tidy, etc... blah blah blah... bureaucratic buzzwords and mumbo jumbo! blah blah blah...

[@laceweisbrod3166]

Hello, it’s Lace here. I am so sorry you went through that. You were not negative and you did the right thing. Organisations like this don’t want to hear the truth because they can’t handle the truth. Again you did the right thing. Keep doing what you do. Lace.❤

[@MichelleKennedy-r5i]

That sounded like a living hell Orion. I wish NT people understood that we ND do take things literally And think logically with a need to process differently. We need time, as our brains are throwing all sorts of info at us continuously, to filter and then speak. What is so difficult to understand about that. And yes, if I was told I’ll be able to speak my mind and share my experience as an Autistic adult I would be PISSED to get cut off. All I can say is thanks for trying your best to explain the truth to NTs., even though it seemed to be you were talking to a bunch of stones. I hope you’re able to move past this terrible experience, we will never be fully understood. And that is awfully sad.

[@mellarius188]

You’re allowed to be negative - it just means you’re saying something they don’t want to hear.

[@ColinTimmins]

I was there for the last video, but I had to listen this story again as how ludicrous it was how they treated you and how they failed ALL of us! They failed you, the one that was advocating for being human. Thank you for being you, it’s not your fault.

[@katjs]

omg orion that is almost exactly the same experience i had but with my workplace! I'm still fighting for the accommodations and acceptance and inclusion they advertise is available for employees. it's been two years and i'm still begging to be truly heard and have my needs met.

[@MsDAV2]

I completely agree with your point of view and I do not think that being honest and logical is negative. I think your approach would be far more effective than the purportedly positive approach of telling people that something impossible will happen.