Top 10 Games that are Exceptions to the Rule

[@andrewbeutel8044]

Really appreciate Mike’s contribution to these videos. He’s a great addition to the group.

[@Shad0wSix]

I’d like to see a negative version of this list. Like you always love games from this genre/designer but there is one exception you truly hate.

[@guillermoz4914]

Shad0wSix I second that!

[@hucz]

It wouldn't work. They would have WAY too many exceptions! For example Mike's favourite mechanism is worker placement but I'm sure he could name a dozen exceptions or worker placements game he doesn't enjoy. So then it just becomes a terrible game list and it wouldn't be that interesting as we would all agree they are bad games. And it can't be exceptions that are usually considered great games by others or popular games because they have already done that before.

[@ahouyearno]

For me that would be quartermaster, especially cold war. Give me a world map to conquer and I’m hooked. The game is also objectively good. I just hate it. It takes forever, there’s too much dead time and not enough changes from turn to turn Most games have me neutral if I don’t like it. I actively hate quartermaster

[@searose6192]

I’d love to see a *Top 10 Games for learning such n such mechanism perfectly* because there are several mechanism I’m unfamiliar with, but don’t know where to start to get my feet wet.

[@davidhall6610]

The Brothers Murph essentially do this in their recent vlog post "Top 10 Games to Start Your Collection!" kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3SWYWqEmJeWgpY

[@jackdempsy7104]

This got a thumbs up as soon as I saw Mike was on the panel!

[@matthewlewiscomposer]

I love how at 2:10 it looks like Mike and Zee are looking at each other

[@LegoAssassin098]

Now that you're doing online top 10s...maybe you can do one with Sam, Zee and Tom?

[@Spudkitty513]

One of the things that adds to the 'distancing,' is seeing the surroundings of where people actually live. Might I suggest that the names (hey, we know who they are) be smaller to show more on the camera screen. Thank you! :)

[@ScruffyNerfhurder]

It's interesting how nobody complains about top 10s being too long now that everyone has nothing to do.

[@hanseathl]

I still have a lot to do but I like the long videos anyway 😉

[@txsportsfreak02]

I just watch it when I can. Break it up.

[@kotieerwee2593]

Did people complain about this before?

[@ScruffyNerfhurder]

@@kotieerwee2593 Yes.

[@atomiccritter6492]

I like that they explain why they like or dislike stuff

[@MeepleOverboard]

Re: Zee's apprehension of 9 Tiles Panic, the game is a great puzzle, and I think the "wacky" part of the theme works because you'll never confuse objectives in a round. "Oh, we were trying to connect roads to the most radishes. I connected to Onions!" FBI agents, aliens, hamburgers, and dogs are very visually unique.

[@shichitenhakkihd]

Nice list! :) Also ... almost (!) for every single instance of Mike saying: "I usually don't like category X except for the special instance of Y." I was like: "I usually like category X except for Y." Tastes can be so different. :D

[@Frausky]

It's awesome seeing Tom using the Funko that I sent him!

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I think if you put up the faces more, it would be nice. A lot of people watch for the interpersonal dynamic and it loses a bit when we can't see the faces as much...

[@MegaSilver]

Yeah, if it was just the bottom of the screen instead of the corner, it would look better IMO.

[@clarenceneal2622]

Wiz-War is still one of my favorite mini skirmish games, followed closely by Adrenaline.

[@jameswoodard4304]

I'm calling that Zee will have that submarine Oniverse game high on the list because it's a roll and move game that he really likes. [Rats! "That's Life" took the category.]

[@deadsquirrel7256]

I’m glad there’s finally some love for Pax Pamir 2e in the Dice Tower. The only thing I disagree with is the rule book for Pamir 2e is 10x better than all the other Pax games.

[@mikebollen9238]

Glad you're still doing these through isolation. If possible next time please keep your faces in full screen during the preamble to and reveal of each pick, as we're missing your reactions to each other's choices.

[@searose6192]

Impressed you guys still managed to have such great chemistry. Tough times, this was cheery.

[@AndICanTalk2]

Really enjoyed this. Only negative was I'd have liked the guys to be just a little larger when their picks were on screen. Just a little. Otherwise, awesome. Ty all!

[@justinkitton5492]

Zee found a way to put pandemic on this list with Thunderbirds, lol

[@chrismurphy9932]

Root is basically a COIN game with a cute theme. I prefer COIN games because I prefer a historical theme with these kind of games, but it's definitely a war game.

[@tiagomarques9822]

If I’m not mistaken, Sprawlopolis has 816 different sets of rules you can play with. With 18 cards, you have 18 different ways to choose the 1st rule, 17 ways for the 2nd and 16 for the 3rd, which will give you 4896 sets. However, in each set the order of these rules doesn’t matter: since you’ll get 6 similar sets for each group of 3 cards, just divide 4896 by 6. I’m sure there is a formula for this, but my probability and statistics lessons are far in the past.

[@frienetic]

You are correct

[@wroot_lt]

"Come at me and bring your trains while at it" :D

[@yair1010]

XDDDDD!!

[@All_Ice117]

The most popular real-time games like Escape: The Curse of the Temple, Fuse, Kitchen Rush, etc. are great. The games have to be simple in order for the real-time mechanism to work. I don't think it's gimmicky at all =S.

[@atomiccritter6492]

Have they done a top 10 roll and move list?

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Woo for Pax Pamir 2e! So good :)

[@davidabbott4396]

Did you ever get your battleball for the library? I have a little used one that i might be willing to part with.

[@galkod4818]

I miss Sam, but I also really like Mike!

[@Moldrath]

I totally agree.

[@atomiccritter6492]

Mike has been excellent

[@luiscarlosqg]

Good replacement. Why did Sam leave?

[@jeffmackey2740]

Co2 Second Chance is Semi Co-op, Co-op, and can be played solo. While the co-op version seems to be the main way to play, the semi co-op side is great.

[@chrismurphy9932]

This is the first game I thought of when he said semi co-op and it is great. Second Chance specifically.

[@johna6108]

I hated the semi coop of CO2. Spend 15 minutes setting up the game for everyone just for the game to flip the table after 15 minutes because you arent playing it right, leading to another 15 minute pack up.

[@KabukiKid]

Alright... I'm ordering a copy of Sprawlopolis. I have been interested in that one for a while, but I keep hearing such glowing things about it, I can't wait any longer! lol :-) Not to mention, now is a good time to have another good solo game. ;-)

[@blacksheep9950]

Deep Sea Adventure is a fun roll and move game. Still very random, but has a hefty push-your-luck factor and is quick and funny.

[@richardshort2001]

Isn't "Trying to find where the other guy is" Zee's favorite role in Captain Sonar?

[@MongooseDoggie]

There is a battle of battle ball in an old falling down, side of the road, dirt floor, closed junk store here in town.

[@AndICanTalk2]

Great stuff! Ty everyone! The whole thing ran really well.

[@MussoGames]

I’m with Tom. I love Killer Bunnies and I have no idea why. Goes against everything I like about modern games but for some reason it just works for me. Idk. Don’t @ me

[@jcb3393]

Verflixxt / That's Life is a great abstract roll-and-move. Love it.

[@sorrowsong08]

I thought Tom was going to say Magical Athlete instead of That's Life.

[@procrastinatingperfectioni278]

Another great top 10 with much of the hatred resonating with myself. I thought Zee would choose Jamaica for the roll and move!

[@chadikewood2342]

Zee. what about Legendary Encounters Aliens?

[@AFatalPapercut]

51:20 I want a Top 10 Games that are Liquefied Pumpkin Pie

[@85Funkadelic]

Root is a Savage cut throat game that gets more vicious the more your group plays it. it always starts out nice but after a couple of games people are murdering each other as soon as possible.

[@BG_StuartJ]

I thought Tom's roll & move game might have been Careers because he's the only person I see online who mentions that game

[@susanjohnson318]

I loved that game! Played it every Friday night for months on end with a girl, when we were stuck at banjo band rehearsals in the middle of nowhere. Wish I still had that game!

[@mystic839]

Gloomhaven makes semi-coop work for me

[@naughtscrossstitches]

You mentioned killer bunnies and I love it! It is one of my favourite games! I love the humour and the cards. I just need to find people to play it with as it is such a polarising game.

[@F4R207]

While not a huge fan of Mansions of Madness I do love the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game that it is trying to emulate and I fully agree that it is about scale, about personalizing the experience, be inserting yourself through the character into the situation and getting to actually feel their haunting and harrowed experiences. Its what the source material intended for it to be and MoM is a good representation of that in board game form, and while I prefer the roleplaying I personally like the CCG if I'm going to play a board (card) game about the mythos.

[@Naledgeizpwr]

If there is ever a game I should dislike on paper it’s Cthulhu: Death May Die. The publisher, the designers, the setting, all things that should have sent me running, and yet it is a lot of fun. I have zero desire to own it, but I would be happy to play it again. It’s a surprisingly clean dumb game.

[@susanjohnson318]

Tom started talking about Cthlulu games and I thought Mansions of Madness, because it's the same for me. And I LOOOOOVE MoM!

[@josegodoy8461]

Great show guys! Mike didn't play up his grampa angle but it is funny how he is so cult of the new!

[@JuusoVainio]

I really think you should try adding the lists in the video description. I remember you said in one video that then no one would watch the actual video but I think it would have the opposite effect. Just try it once or twice and see the results. :)

[@benlauson555]

When the list is in the description I definitely do not watch the whole video. I just read the list. Usually that happens when it's just a solitaire person telling their list. In this case with a bunch of guys just talking and hanging out I would probably still watch the whole video. But usually if the list is in the description I read it and move on without watching the whole video. But of course just one persons experience here

[@mgk2020]

They have done it before.

[@OriginalPiMan]

I like train games but I don't think I view them as narrowly as Mike. Sure, you've got your 18XX games (never had the chance to play) and Empire Builder (I own half the whole series by now), but you've also got String Railway, and Railroad Ink. Trains are a theme like how Cthulu is a theme; the actual games in the theme can vary significantly in gameplay genre.

[@MeepleOverboard]

A lot of the Winsome games are like 20-30 minute train games. Irish Gauge plays under an hour. Mini Rails in about 45 minutes. Northern Pacific is like 20 minutes. Paris Connection is like 20-30 minutes. All count as "Train Games"

[@terderp]

I nearly spit my drink out at 13:30 x'D

[@Spellenreporter]

That's Life is awesome! It looks old and boring, but this is really a fun and brutal game!

[@keseph7749]

14:35 I was under the impression, his favorite game is Scythe...

[@keel1701]

Good choice with Colosseum Tom! My #2 game!

[@foolishness6261]

Competitive Spreadsheeting with nice graphics is the backbone of SO MANY games..

[@zacdredge3859]

1:04:00 I think this game works because it's essentially a trope of the very things Tom dislikes about these kinds of games.

[@dahger7]

Battleball just turns into a game of eliminating each others players instead of actual strategic maneuvering and passing.

[@cthulwho8197]

Listening in the future? They’re going to be too busy fighting in the Thunderdome! 😁

[@robertmcginley5510]

I like Mike more than I like Sam though it's close and there is absolutely no disrespect sent towards Sam with this comment, I just enjoy Mike's viewpoint and commentary

[@sorrowsong08]

I agree, I like Sam but my game choices align more with Mike so I'm happy to see him here and miss Sam.

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

Both are great but I also miss Sam Healey. He was hilarious.

[@madfighter77]

This list should've been called guilty pleasures XD

[@johna6108]

There are a couple of other semi coops (I thought dead of winter was what you were going to mention, mansions of Madness to some degree), but I agree. I hate semi coops particularly those games that decide that you arent playing the game right and everyone loses (ie CO2).

[@brantshepherd9387]

Did Mike’s fam finally make it down to Florida? Going through this quarantine stuff would stink without your family around.

[@ericmatthews9673]

Killer bunnies for the win! I 100% agree with tom here. Except it’s not really an exception since the most important part of the game is really gambling and push your luck which Tom loves. It just needs to be shorter.

[@ThymeKeeper]

Tom knew Zee liked Wealth of Nations because he's put it on lists before :)

[@thedicetower]

Well, I have forgotten, for sure. Old man me!

[@ThymeKeeper]

@@thedicetower I'm older than you, but to be fair I'm also an obsessive fan and have probably watched your videos a LOT more than you have :D.

[@un-ku_son]

I think Zee also liked Pyramid of Pengqueen for hidden movement.

[@warmachineuk]

This is much better than the last top 10. Everyone 'bounces' off each other.

[@willomalley7619]

In accordance with this list how much did your attitude mentally or state of mind have to do with pics, I find if I'm not in the "mood" for a game it is very difficult to enjoy

[@EE-te8zo]

My exception for semi co-op is Nemesis.

[@haukionkannel]

Cost Express Sounds cool! But definitely would like to see better looking version of it.

[@dandurkin9735]

haukionkannel Really?! I think it looks pretty great as is. That was a great pick by Zee.

[@Aba19xx]

Semi coop Tom's no.3 and what about Battlestar Galactica or Shadows over Camelot ??

[@blacksheep9950]

My real-time exceptions are Sidereal Confluence and Bananagrams.

[@thewynnersgameroom]

Surprised that you (Tom) didnt say Magical Athlete as his roll and move game

[@FatManWalking18]

the thunderbirds were supermarination IIRC

[@lauriy-v2567]

Problem with chutulu theme is that it is not mysterious. Choolnes of chutulu is that you dont know what it is(plastic model looking at you)

[@PinothyJ]

Enjoyed this one :)

[@RGcrasyRG]

Yay, love to see HobbyWorld on these lists.

[@CSManiac33]

Aren't Dead of Winter and Marvel Legendary considered semi-Cooperative games.

[@cobtyrannon2479]

I thought so too

[@aeglosux]

Well, Tom plays Marvel Legendary exclusively as a co-op, and has mentioned that he has actually fallen out of love with Dead of Winter as the years have gone by. Battlestar Galactica is a traitor game (as is Shadows over Camelot) which he considers different (I took that from another comment of his on this video). And he doesn't really enjoy Battlestar Galactica anymore either! So there you go.

[@CSManiac33]

@@aeglosux what has he said to be his problems with Dead of Winter? Just out of curiosity. I heard him mention it in the games we hate video when Zee mentioned Dead of Winter but he didn't elaborate on it.

[@aeglosux]

@@CSManiac33 I don't know exactly, but I think it's just the semi coop nature of it. He has really been harping on that mechanism over the past few years

[@deedd4401]

I wonder if Tom has ever tried the R.O.V.E.

[@dfens1987]

TIL: Zee really likes football if given a chance.

[@jeroenvanderhorst1513]

Tom's nr 10: "Killer Bunnies and the Quest for the Magic Carrot." Sounds like the title of a cheap adult movie.

[@jameswoodard4304]

I wonder if Tom has read Lovecraft. I'm not just being a "have you even read the book?" snob, I promise. I only say this because one of the main aspects that games and other implementations seem to have the most trouble capturing from Lovecraft is the deeply intimate scale through which he tells cosmic horror. Lovecraft tells the story of an entire world secretly being overcome with madness, by having one guy slowly come to the realization via a very close story of human interactions. Often, a single situation is terrifying because it is happeneing right in front of the protagonist's face in intimate fashion, but has cosmic implications that blow your mind. Now I'm not 100% endorsing Lovecraft's work as it is dated in more ways than one. Specifically social attitudes and personal philosophy. No, he wasn't just a man "of his time." His views were bad even when he had them. They are just even more unappealing nowadays. So, when they make a rare appearance, it is more than a little off-putting. Also, the magazine-serial style of pop fiction which is the stylistic raw materials with which he crafted his masterpieces provides flavor at first, but can get tired after a while. Still, he left a very specific legacy that most adaptations are woefully inadequate in attempting to relate, and a large part of that has to do with his ability to distill indescribable cosmic peril into a tight, personal, human scale. It sounds like this game is one of the few to be able to tap into that to some degree. By the way, Arkham Horror Living Card Game also does this fairly well compared to most.

[@thedicetower]

I have read Lovecraft (a few of his short stories) and I REALLY disliked them. Mostly the style.

[@jameswoodard4304]

@@thedicetower , I can definitely appreciate that. As distasteful as his work can be for various very good reasons, it is at least effective, and the most effective adaptations tend to be those with the tightest storytelling scope. Honestly, even beyond the racism which he allows to overlap into his work, the hopeless Nihilism at the heart of the horror (and in which he thoroughly believed and advocated for) is the biggest turn off for me. Even as much as I can appreciate his effectiveness, I can only stomach so much, because what he is effective *at* is getting you to dwell in Nietzsche's abyss. *That's* the true heart of "Cosmic Horror." Not massive hateful monsters with tentacles, but seeing the universe through Lovecraft's eyes- A pointless, hopeless, cosmic mass of meaninglessness in which the human is at the whim of forces he can't comprehend and couldn't effect even if he could comprehend them. ANYWAY! Enough of this nonsense. Go read something uplifting (the hope and truth of the Bible is a great antidote to this kind of thing), enjoy spending time with your awesome family, and leave the Abyss to those who want it. It's an interesting place to visit, but only fools want to dwell in it. Thanks for the reply and have a blessed day!

[@sqorrox7364]

I'm with Tom - Killer Bunnies is great fun. I too dislike the humour first/take that/etc games but this one is just a great game.

[@samt9387]

Battle Ball....Nice!!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Five player Smartphone in an hour? No!!!

[@thedicetower]

Yes. It's possible!

[@MrStevenvanL]

Wait - TMZ?

[@arekkrolak6320]

Strawman fallacy when you argue Root is a wargame :)

[@ThunderStruck15]

But it is....

[@Andural69]

Damn it, I sold battle ball without ever playing it

[@Raaddller]

Are there games where the players choose the rules? Something where whatever the input parameter are, the player always ends up winning. Like where mistakes give you more points than logical options. I'm looking for such a game for someone with special needs.

[@OPxZenith]

Wildlands!!

[@drhumupower8570]

But Mike, have you tried Real-Time Assymetrical Economic Battle Train Simulator? 🤣

[@ShuffleUpandDeal32]

How dare Mike use a four letter word! lol

[@StoneTempleGlyph]

What are they talking about?

[@hanseathl]

About great board games 😁

[@Straddllw]

Wait ... Tom doesn't like Cthulhu!?

[@CD-zd6zr]

"I hate anime" sounds like "I hate movies" or "I hate cartoons" or "I hate TV shows" because there are so many genres and stories it covers.

[@Drewkas0]

Also like “I hate math”

[@Sjamesbrito]

He calls them 4”O” games :D

[@gurtana]

LMAO Zee’s No. 1 pick is yet another PANDEMIC game!! Haha

[@9000bret]

Not only do I utterly despise Cutthroat Caverns, it’s one of the few games that I cannot even understand why anyone likes. All of the rules to which they think it’s an exception are why I hate it. I just don’t understand. It’s one of the few games that I can I say that I had no fun whatsoever while playing, even though I quite liked all of my fellow players. On the positive side, Xia did the impossible for me and made me love a roll-and-move game.

[@spunx44]

Zee talked about liking Wealth of Nations before and Tom said “You like Wealth of Nations!?!?”. So, lies! Tom should know!

[@wroot_lt]

Liquefied pumpkin pie :D

[@txsportsfreak02]

Would CO2 be a semi-coop?

[@davethepak]

This was a pretty cool video - just a note however; It should not just be "things I dont' like" it should be about games that break traditional "don't do this in a game" yet it works for these games. Nothing is wrong with "I should hate this game, but don't list". But then the video should be named that.