TOSIN ABASI - Talks Progressive Metal Concepts and Philosophy

[@LifeHawkeye]

Not only is Tosin a world class player but he is so articulate in the way he expresses his thoughts. What a great mind of his generation!

[@CarlosFromPhilly]

Yeah, such an insightful dude.

[@TheChrisPCritter]

Rick and Tosin seem like the nicest people.

[@kellyjackson7889]

Until they start drinking

[@emanonymous]

i've met tosin on two occasions and he was genuinely nice

[@photoquig7036]

@@kellyjackson7889 then they would probably be even more fun.

[@22fret]

Yep, and them talking about my all-time guru Holdsworth really made my day... God Almighty, AND Meshuggah! This is Christmas and Easter coming along at the same time...

[@noASML8ing]

@@22fret - Haha! Basically how I'm feeling (same taste too :) \m/

[@kc_jones_gaming]

Putting a small clip of the artist when mentioned in interviews is highly underrated. Thank you for that editing

[@retrorewind6042]

Agreed

[@Polletross]

Yes for real. I didn’t totally know what they were on about so it’s a nice touch

[@777theneighborofthebeast9]

Yeah, I agree with this comment. Agreed

[@xxxfallenseraphxx]

Yeah the editing in this is top notch. I really appreciated the musical examples spliced in. Really made the conversation understandable for everyone!

[@DaveTaste]

Everything that ever happened is underrated

[@petric334]

When I was a kid, my mom grabbed my Pantera CD and listened and told me - " this is angry music, why do you want to be so angry?" I responded " It makes me so happy". The whole point about how intense musical emotions can be superficially perceived as angry just hits home. For many, metal was a license to feel intensely in any emotional spectrum. Sometimes release = joy, regardless of what is released. Release doesn't always = dwelling, sometimes its freedom. More complex music allows release of more complex emotions. Prog opens up such a wide-spectrum release. The meta-effect is joy, even if the sound isn't joyous on the surface.

[@Bisquick]

Indeed! I believe Aristotle conceived of this as "catharsis".

[@jeffreycollins7297]

Gotta have a positive way to get that energy out. Pantera helped me through so much growing up. I also was healed at a Pantera concert. Walked in with my knee hurting and after a few hours ON it and listening to that LOUD ASS MUSIC, It healed me, Went home and haven't had a problem with it since. Thank you Father DIME and Family!

[@21stcenturycunt89]

​@Michael Thornton ??????? I'm a girl and I listen almost exclusively to prog metal. Gender doesn't matter in music, unless for the relatability of the lyrics or something. Saying that metal is a male thing is not only incorrect, but makes women who do like it feel left out

[@voyager1568]

Your answer downsized = catharsis

[@851852093114208513]

Reminds me of an American Aquarium song from my favorite album of theirs... "She said, 'Why do you play all them sad songs? Who went and hurt you so badly?' I just laughed and said, 'Baby, them sad songs Is the only thing that makes me happy' Yeah, sad songs that make me happy'"

[@GuitarbyRW]

King Crimson deserves some credit, as well as Chuck Schuldiner/Death for pushing boundaries and breaking new ground in heavy music. Great interview

[@isosubject5169]

cynic.......atheist.....pestilence......obscura.................

[@malevolentsound]

Gorguts

[@joedrums8578]

Yes to all of this. Don't forget Morbid Angel. Trey Azagthoth :)

[@sinistermephisto65]

Death and Opeth are 2 bands I feel I am supposed to like but I have tried and still don't get it Chuck's vocals ruins half the songs for me. I do enjoy watching people cover his songs.

[@tomsmith184]

@@sinistermephisto65 same with me but with children of bodom and any other band that screams, can’t stand it. I love the guitar playing and drums just not the screaming vocals lol

[@pitpride1220]

I love how Rick doesn't judge music at all. He can find beauty in all of it.

[@pitpride1220]

@@gormarx Fair point

[@stevemuzak8526]

@@gormarx Stop trolling.

[@stevemuzak8526]

Because there is a beauty in almost any kind of music. That's why I listen to almost everything I can. From death metal to pop etc.

[@fvsander7766]

@@gormarx Man, what a pain the ass you are, trying to prove you are so mature every second in every comment. Calm down, in the other comment the guy just gave you a nice answer to your thought of rick being a "hardcore nationalist" and you didn't respond. You know this is not the way to make it to him. And don't try to be a boomer too, we are the same age and you are just unhappy, try to see the good things of this time too. There is beauty in many styles Today (of course many popular songs could just be in the trash), and you have the opportunity to listen to all the masters of the past, that in itself is great, or isn't it?

[@MrPDTaylor]

You're joking right?

[@MrSphinxster]

Tosin continues to show why he is one of the coolest dudes on the planet.

[@redactedruski4597]

Imma big fan of Holdsworth. I never heard of this dude. Just listened to Animals as Leaders. Hoe Lee fuuuuuuuuuuuuk... 🤯 That is some super next level stuff. Thx for turning me on to this.

[@EthanRadell]

How melted is your brain now? 😂😂 You have just found yourself in a very deep rabbit hole that is much deeper than you can conceive. No worries though, We all fall together 😂😂😂

[@kylematthews6612]

I'm actually jealous because I wish I could hear them for the first time again. I would definitely recommend listening to the album's start to finish because they have such a beautiful flow to them!

[@TheGuitarifier]

The Joy of Motion is one of the greatest albums ever created. Enjoy your journey my brother

[@franklahache3679]

@@TheGuitarifier it’s literally the best album of all time. Listen to it every day.

[@TheVashnessItself99]

If you're into bands that are doing some cool things in this end of the music scene I'd recommend tesseract for some cool grooves, meshuggah (the koloss album is probably the most accessible if you haven't heard them already), polyphia does some really cool guitar work on their newer stuff like G.O.A.T. and lastly tosin had a jazz band for one record called TRAM that also featers the other guitarist from animals as leaders and eric moore

[@tommycorso7515]

These two should start a podcast together. Old, new, metal, jazz and everything in between. As far as guitars go, they cover so much ground.

[@jeffreycollins7297]

I'd be satisfied if they just did one episode every two months, cause they are both very busy people.

[@heyjarrod]

Yeah, I’m pretty old-school metal. But when I heard that dubstep/brostep stuff coming out, I really dug it. I think it was Sckrillix who sampled some Metallica. That stuff was so gnarly and heavy! 😝🤘🏻🎸🇺🇸

[@RC32Smiths01]

Even as a metalhead, I am completely open to any and every style of music, as that is essentially what is means to be a musical enthusiast, not to mention that listening to the same style can truly get tiring after a while.

[@trevorcarl9515]

90% of my music listening is metal, but with so many subgenres I never really get burnt out on metal as a whole. Getting my ears obliterated by tech death is a very different experience than singing along with Alestorm or rocking out with Manowar. Outside of metal style guitar, I also enjoy playing finger style county guitar lol

[@71771PAULTHEWALLOFSOUND]

@@trevorcarl9515 Well i can spend days just listening to grime and d&B rap. But my hart is and always will be metal. I just like good sounds

[@llla_german_ewoklll6413]

baby shark doo doo doo doo doo doo baby shark doo doo doo doo doo do

[@RC32Smiths01]

@@trevorcarl9515 Ahh that's cool to hear. You do you!

[@71771PAULTHEWALLOFSOUND]

@@llla_german_ewoklll6413 Lololo i have no clue in the context of that but hay. 😂🤷‍♂️

[@GeorgePatmas]

Rick, you're not only an amazing musician, you're a teacher, producer, and one of the most friendliest persons! As a musician and teacher, you’re someone i strive to be like. Not just a metal dude, but a musician. Someone who understands all aspects of music. Keep it up dude! hope to meet you sometime!

[@RickBeato]

Thanks George!

[@BrunoFidelisMusic]

props to who edited this, loved the examples in the middle of the questions

[@BillyDrinksMilk]

Thanks mang! Rick and I both chose different examples for the video! Have a good one!

[@shermanmesser6189]

Agreed. However, (lol) as a massive dubstep fan I think a better example song would have been something like "Throwin' Elbows" by Excision or "Casket" by Marauda formally known as Mastadon. Great video and discussion.

[@shermanmesser6189]

@DjDigitalGhost, yeah the difference between the two was missed by most. Mastodon I unfortunately haven't listened to a lot of. But Mastadon kinda blew up at 16/17 years old and is pushing a heavier sound for dubstep. I'm glad he rebranded to avoid confusion as Murauda. I bought a ticket to see him some years ago right before the name change. But all the updates right before the concert was with the new name and I was confused for a moment. Did they get someone else or what. But a Google later, I figured it out. Damn phone trying to auto correct Mastadon to Mastodon made this take longer than needed.

[@InneRThundeR]

Exactly! It made following the thoughts and references way easier!

[@fruitlesspursuits_]

In addition to being an incredible player, Tosin comes across as a really thoughtful guy. Thanks for this interview.

[@tetrahedrontri]

I'm really upset Rick didn't follow through on Tosin's list of quintessential Progressive Metal albums! WE NEED TO KNOW!

[@soapfoam]

It's kinda a hackneyed question. I'm glad Tosin instantly dodged it and upped the quality of the interview. And he dropped hints throughout anyways, constantly mentioning Dillinger Escape Plan, Meshuggah and that one guitarist who I've now forgotten the name of.

[@EdiDrums]

The guitarist was Alan Holdsworth, from the UK. He died in 2017, aged 70.

[@des_o7935]

Hey Rick, great conversation with Tosin. Have you ever checked out or talked to Devin Townsend? He is pretty relevant to this conversation as his music goes from brutal and complex to simple and beautiful. Would be curious on your thoughts of his style of producing with his trademark wall of sound and his use of open C guitar tunings.

[@idontcare_wtf]

That may be a really interesting conversation I'm hoping to enjoy

[@christopherallen5036]

Hear hear! Hevy Devy is very broad in scope as far as metal is concerned.

[@johninama585]

First thing I thought - Where's Devin? I'd love to hear a Devin/Rick conversation!

[@1337ddd]

Please

[@AngeloGuardia]

here me out, Devin, Rick, Mikael, and Steve...

[@chiefindisguise]

The reason i love Rick is because his mind is so open to every style of music, and his analytic skills through experience are so vast that he can instantly tell you what is the process behind it. Not only that, what makes him truly unique is that he ENJOYS all of it. God Bless you Rick!

[@alexinho6981]

Metalheads can be very stubborn. I'd say is 50/50 conservative/those that appreciate new sounds.

[@71771PAULTHEWALLOFSOUND]

I dig that. I like horrorcore Rap, most my metal head friends dont like it, but then most havent even listened to it for an opinion. But its rap to them and they won't entertain it.

[@kinanschannel6016]

Exactly I’m loving lil nas x right now

[@hockeyshot999]

I have an ear that only searches for dissonance and resolution, regardless of the genre with a preference of Post-Hardcore/Metalcore 😄

[@71771PAULTHEWALLOFSOUND]

@8un3zz Lololo its music, there are no rules in what you like or don't. As long as a person doesn't try and shove it on me i couldn't care less what other's listen to tbh. And yes thats the 50% who call genres "other" lol. When infact its still metal.

[@rfphill]

wow.. never thought of that. I can definitely see that...

[@denverbilyeu2172]

I am 41 and have listened to the progressive music for over 20 yrs and love how the genre is really true to its name. All the other genres seem to get stuck but progressive music keeps advancing and pulling in elements. I think a cool video would be the history of progressive music. I have loved DT since the late 90’s and am continually amazed at how the next generations keep finding ways to expand what is possible, Animals was amazing to see live.

[@justicescales560]

Tosin is a badass and I love his humbleness. So many folks don't understand just how impactful Meshuggah is because so many are tempted to turn them off when they hear the screaming or they think it all sounds the same. Tosin, although he draws from those chaotic, down tuned bands that came before AAL, doesn't give himself enough credit for igniting a new way. Very cool dude. Very cool interview, and WOW what a talent he truly is. Already a legend. Some folks just come out the gate and change the game. Necrophagist comes to mind. He's a game changer and a wonderful player.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Absolutely loved this discussion. There are too many points I'd love to add/explore lol. I'd define "prog" as pushing past conventions into something useful/resonating that innovates music. Progressive has the word "progress" in it. If it's "creativity" for creativity sake I'd consider it experimental. "Creativity" is doing something different. "Innovation" is doing something better. Have a lot more thoughts but I'll leave it there haha. Stay awesome 🤘

[@someperson9052]

You should make a video then

[@Xx_BoogieBomber_xX]

@@someperson9052 i think he did a while back

[@drummerdrei]

I read this in your voice😂

[@bigsnacks2350]

Make a video on it, I always love your thoughts on the metal genres or communitys

[@sethbeaudreault]

Do they ever talk about Meshuggah in this discussion?

[@coolguitarchannel]

Tosin is incredibly smart and thoughtful, and aware and respectful of the musicians that came before him. Cool guy

[@MotherboardStandoff]

When Tosin talked about how rare it is for an engineer to also be a great guitarist, immediately Tom Scholz came to mind. Total legend. Even in 2020 the sound of Boston is just next level. Turn that up to eleven and enjoy all the layering and effects.

[@semitones9106]

I love hearing Tosin saying it himself "It's like going into space" because whenever I show my friends his guitar videos or an "Animal as leaders" song even people that don't like metal usually always enjoy listening to them and I always described it to them as "space metal". They would then go on and ask me "why are there no vocals in the band?" and I would describe to them that their music is so technical and musically inclined that they are making their instruments sing and speak for themselves and I feel vocals would take away from that feeling of transcendence that you get from the whole "Space metal" vibe. It's almost like the instruments are speaking for themselves by bringing you on a magical astral journey doing so by playing in a way that people are not used to hearing which imo is the reason "Animals as Leaders" really helped start this trend of non-vocal progressive metal bands today. Each song is its own journey and you are letting the instruments guide you on that journey. I truly believe it helped set a new trend/style of music in its own way, its like Djenty, Jazzy, Classical, Fusion and very technical. Which is also helping people to better understand instrumental bands such as "Polyphia", "Plini", "The Omnific" and many more bringing light and awareness to this new era/genre of music. Now I know there are bands that came out before "Animals as leaders" doing the same non-vocal thing but I really feel they as a band, help set up a larger audience of people that are now not so close-minded/generic and learned to adapt/appreciate the way they are by doing untraditional concepts which is helping people appreciate music more as a whole. This may be a biased comment to some people but to me, it not only pushed the boundary of music but also helped diversify it in a way that many people can appreciate it more, even those that hate metal and set's higher goals/standards/techniques for the next generation of musicians to come which they will be building upon these concepts even further. I cant wait to see what the future has in store! I mean I absolutely loved the project "The Omnific" when it was created because they give you the same feeling/journey just in a different way. In their mind, they were like alright well let's show people how something like this can be created using two basses instead of two guitars and innovated it very nicely.

[@CarlosAcosta-se4ql]

The impact Dream Theatre had cannot be more understated. JP really showed how to use more complex chords through high gain and sound good yet still metal.

[@brockbaldridge7620]

Facts. I don’t know why Rick almost never gives them credit for anything

[@999kafka]

​@@brockbaldridge7620their harmonic vocabulary is not very complex or modern. They ten to use mostly traditional rock and metal harmonies. And that is not too diminish them in any way, it's just a simple fact.

[@brockbaldridge7620]

@@999kafka not really at all, they literally have atonal parts in their music or play in many different modes, you can’t deny that

[@karwashblark7499]

@@brockbaldridge7620 Yeah but even their atonal sections sound dated. They're a cool band, but now in the 2020's their style isn't what i'd call "contemporary", even if they are still making music. Also... I'm sorry but I just can't stand James LeBrie. I know I'm not alone.

[@brockbaldridge7620]

@@karwashblark7499 going on their 4th decade of music, I’d say that’s not too bad. Most bands are done after their like 2nd. But yes labrie is a huge liability now, he’s beginning to severely take away from the band especially live which sucks. He used to have a great voice in my opinion

[@lucashernandez8146]

0:26 "man plays icarus lives without actually learning it"

[@devondorr8212]

damn I didn't notice that first listen

[@yes-du8dc]

Yup

[@manolisworld]

hahahahaha

[@josuastangl7140]

Exactly my thoughts😂

[@craigfrober316]

Good catch!

[@PeterLiebetrau]

"Your mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open." (Frank Zappa)

[@kipponi]

Yeah you can learn a lot of Zappa's quotes.

[@jacopovigano1356]

yeah Frank Zappa didn’t really wrote himself that quote

[@kipponi]

@@jacopovigano1356 who was it then? Zappa had his owns too, it is sure.

[@shhs1227]

@@kipponi The earliest source for the quote is H.J. Gramlich in 1938

[@shhs1227]

@@kipponi But also note. Zappa is the first musician to say this afaik. Gramlich used it off-handedly in an agricultural report.

[@Eclare72]

I'd love to see some discussion about Opeth. Blackwater Park was such a great record.

[@motopolak]

Man, they have so much amazing stuff to pick from. The biggest influence for me as a whole would have to be Ghost Reveries (and I'm a drummer so that may have something to do with it). Martin Lopez just has some insanely tasteful and creative drum parts throughout that album. But that one's gold as far as heaviness & melodic content.

[@BetoPerretta]

Opeth is a band that isnt afraid to go in every direction and really experiment with their music to the point of disapointing their metalhead fans. Id have to say Damnation is one of my favorites.

[@anthonychin8610]

Every Opeth record is great. They may not be metal anymore but they still kick ass. Pale Communion is the best prog rock record of the past decade for sure.

[@EnriquePage91]

@@motopolak Freakin Harlequin Forest fuck yeah thanks Martín López.

[@brautigan81]

​@@motopolak I love Ghost Reveries. Hearing "Hours of Wealth" alone blew my mind, but then realizing how it was kind of like a prelude to "The Grand Conjuration" was so amazing. And then it's followed by "Isolation Years", probably the only melody more beautiful than "Hours of Wealth" on that album. It has to be one of the greatest album wrap-ups of all time.

[@debashish424]

Man, this can qualify as a TED talk!!!

[@codymccormick7317]

Man, I'm so happy with how far metal music has come even in the last decade, and it's all thanks to people as open minded as tosin.

[@syx5455]

I have to say, after accepting metal music, I generally became more optimistic and positive towards different things, not just music, but everything in general, I give everything a chance and try to find the good points in them therefore I end up enjoying things more than hating them,

[@antonbundschu5264]

Sounds like composers and writers in general are more open minded, because they are always looking for inspiration from anywhere and everywhere. Music listeners often identify with the culture of their favorite music and close themselves off to other genres. So no, I disagree, unless you consider players to be composers/writers.

[@brettadkins4698]

I pretty much just wrote the same thing, the musicians are probably open minded, the fans not so much. Surprisingly enough, a lot of the underground hip hop type dudes are usually into and appreciate a wide range of music.

[@70erJahreJunge]

Great comment, nails it. I know so many metal heads still worshipping only the stuff from 25 years ago.

[@Halbumen]

not always a fan of AAL but since the first time i heard him speak i've been a HUGE fan of Tosin the man and this was a great little chat between two insightful and loveable souls

[@tiaraguy7705]

It feels so relieving hearing someone explain so clearly the loose thoughts and emotions I've been having this past year. Hearing Tosin talk from a more musically philosophical perspective makes me feel like I'm listening to someone who gets how I feel when it comes to music. Love it

[@oe542]

I don’t know anything they’re talking about but still interesting as hell!

[@AkilanNarayanaswamy]

I think the most open minded music fans are often found in fans of metal but not all metalheads are open minded especially those that get all their opinions form internet forums

[@jusin5482]

😂

[@Paul_Sleeping]

I see so many comments just in this channel the distaste whenever Rick mentions anything that is not loud heavy music. I have never like heavy metal or hard rock and it only reinforces my opinion that metal heads are the most closed minded people. I'm glad to hear that prog metal is not the same. That, in fact, is almost a different genre and listeners.

[@ronsdad3736]

It depends on what genre. Tool and DT fans tend to be elitist

[@yash1140]

@@Paul_Sleeping nobody cares about those shitheads. Rick is an incredibly knowledgeable and skillful guy. He is certainly my favourite creator on the platform. Elitists are just those introverted asshats who couldn't achieve anything with their lives, and are now creating a mess on the internet

[@zaxmaxlax]

The most open minded music fans are the actual music fans, doesn't matter the genre.

[@Nothereman9999]

Metalheads to music open mindedness is like sanity to the Targaryans, the gods flip a coin and see where they land.

[@mauMauthecarabao]

Valar morghulis

[@ostracized666ther2]

HAHAHAHAH that was so good man! Thank you for that. You can probably stumble upon reaaally open minded metalheads that could listen to a wiiiide variety of music or you might be unlucky and find dudes that think that all music after 89' sucks haha

[@harryh5620]

Well, I think part of the point is that there are "Metalheads" and then there are "Prog Metalheads". Kinda different.

[@unsanitizedbabywipes6154]

Most of the fans sucks but the actual musicians, not the posers, are great.

[@liquidsolids9415]

This was a ton of fun. So great to listen to intelligent people having an engaging, intelligent conversation. Thanks, Rick and Tosin!

[@tjawesomeness6047]

This man Tosin is so profoundly expressive and wise that his words resonate so effortlessly

[@Mountfailmore]

Wish more people appreciated Holdsworth while he was alive. He played mostly small venues, which was great for fans but so disproportionate to his talent.

[@dchauser4]

As a long time metalhead, this was refreshing to see a discussion like this and an acknowledgement that metal is a musically open-minded genre in a number of ways.

[@johnhendricks8140]

I remember Tosin Abasi playing with Nuno Bettencourt at a Generation Axe concert, it was amazing. Abasi takes different approach to playing. Its mind blowing. Beato gets the greats on his shows.

[@ericgill5069]

Absolutely brilliant. Two of my all time favorite humans, just being human. The world needs more conversations between the two of you.

[@adamhunt397]

I think Tosin is one of the most exciting and important players that has come around recently. For me as a listener he checks off a lot of things I like, he's rhythmically complex, he's harmonically innovative, he can go from the heaviest of riffing to pristine cleans without missing a beat; in short, he's an amazing player. I am a bit surprised that one name that didn't come up during the conversation about genre-defying players was James Blood Ulmer. While I consider myself a blues-rock player, he snaps me out of my comfort zone the same way that Thelonious Monk, Charles Mingus or Sun Ra does for jazz listeners. The fact that Tosin is happy, funny, talented and successful makes me all the more excited about what he does next.

[@marcscordato4385]

As a jazz fan I though I would have no interest in metal but your review of Plini changed that. The drumming and guitar playing in metal is very sophisticated.

[@t3hgir]

Great video Rick and co. I just love Prog and prog metal because it's one of the few genres where you can literally do anything and not have someone say "no wait, you can't do that here"

[@NeilRaouf]

Allan Holdswortj is one of the most important artists ever.

[@paulauksztulewicz4803]

Amen!

[@mvunit3]

Fredrik Thordendal of Meshuggah would agree wholeheartedly. His soloing and solo album (and self-released tracks) are almost like a homage. And its one of his fave guitarists :). Wish I had gone to see him, he played often in LA, he was one of the most unique guitarists of all time.

[@lalainaichane319]

I hear his influence on solos written by these guitarists : Fredrik Thordendal, Per Nilsson, Misha Mansoor, Tosin Abasi and Plini just to name a few.

[@noonenow8515]

Late in Frank Zappas life he cited Alan Holdsworth as his favorite rock guitarist.

[@Talkboxeffectistrash]

[@RohannvanRensburg]

One of the most forward thinking artists of the day! Great interview. I appreciate the distinction between "prog" and "progressive". "Progressive" is what Opeth/Meshuggah/Steven Wilson/Dream Theater/etc were doing throughout the peaks of their careers, and is IMO what AAL and similar bands are doing. "Prog metal" has ironically become a relatively homogenous genre in and of it. The reality is that true creativity is difficult, and people like categories, patterns and familiarity. It takes a lot to break away.

[@timothygrupp]

I could listen to Tosin talk all day...he is so illuminating. Thanks Rick!

[@peter2f6]

Tosin's answer, starting at 4:00, is SOOOO spot on and deserves people's mindful consideration when trying to "define" what Prog Metal is. There's an immense wealth of concepts conveyed in this interview.

[@dbitton0]

This is one of my favorite interviews you’ve done Rick. Great conversation!

[@MrMortadelas]

We aren't just open, we go out of our way to find new influences.

[@cloudbloom]

Hey there fellow Struggler 😎

[@maschoff69]

So there's this guy named Robert Fripp from a band called King Crimson ...

[@franklingauthier-parker7253]

Careful, he might strike your comment

[@rm9308]

@@franklingauthier-parker7253 He's distracted entertaining his wife in lockdown.

[@bemersonbakebarmen]

@@franklingauthier-parker7253 he might use his stand on you (Its canon, check his diary entry called "It just works")

[@pablovi77]

Yeah, you wonder why is he and King Crimson not the first example or influence.

[@cassl7001]

Tosin is an awesome, interesting guy, and Rick is always keen to talk about and appreciate any music genre. Not stuck in old boomer blues licks

[@Holly18th]

I just stumbled upon progresive metal for the first time yesterday and im so into it! Usually im an R&b/soul, indie, jazz type but ive recently explored a lot of country and classical and now progressive metal! So definitely would say im open to genres!

[@gatekeeper65]

Tosin's a very well spoken musician. He was the perfect choice for this video.

[@joedamore7653]

Holdsworth's Metal Fatigue is one of the few songs I can think of that he actually plays what would be considered a "riff', but then the vocals come in and it's back to his signature chiming clean jazzy vamping. This was a great discussion!

[@motopolak]

A lot of great points here. Tosin always impresses me with his vocabulary and thoughtfulness.

[@Zebula77]

I've always thought of progressive music as the Star Trek of music - as in "to boldly go where no-one's gone before". Tosin's definitely doing that.

[@biorythmicshifter]

A huge influence on progressive metal bands not mentioned is Iron Maiden. Criminally under appreciated especially on this channel…

[@erikpaterson1404]

Yes you need to set up a chat with Vernon Reid from Living Color

[@thewaldfe9763]

🤯

[@Chris_Stanley007]

Hell yea

[@brianspenst1374]

I have been begging for some Living Colour content.

[@adderon]

Vernon and Dr. Know from Bad Brains

[@vincenzomigliore9749]

Animals as leaders first album is in my top 10 albums of all time. Absolutely love this man

[@darktompol]

does Robert Fripp count as a progressive guitar player? you don't hear a lot about him, but I find his playing so interesting!

[@alecyeager6624]

Does the dude who invented progressive rock count as a progressive guitarist? Yeah I’d say so

[@kaganozdemir4332]

He was there at the beginning. He is the ultimate progressive guitar player, in every sense of the word.

[@juanborjas6416]

Definitely. He basically invented progressive metal with Lark In Tongue Aspic and Red

[@eirinn]

Absolutely! I believe he's the most defining progressive guitarist.

[@bemersonbakebarmen]

@@kaganozdemir4332 whay about Zappa or Fred Frith? Those are way more underrated. Zappa is never seen as the great guitar player he was, and Fred Frith came to play with Jhon Zorn and to make way more interesting soundscapes than Fripp

[@sonnysmith3713]

I would watch Rick's videos if all he ever talked about was jazz. The fact that he understands, appreciates, and likes Prog Metal is just awesome.

[@ScarGuitar]

Thank you Rick for that little spotlight!

[@samus88]

Oh man. They mentioned Holdsworth so much, now I gotta listen to UK's first album.

[@theroadahead8593]

Band: Pestilence, Record: Spheres (Death metal + Fusion Jazz) = Amazing

[@glfriendliness9793]

I can see the point, though I’m hesitant to agree. I’ll say this, Paul from Cynic definitely opened me up to my first investigations into fusion jazz-rock. But too many other genres I loved where those I was either raised on or got into on my own way before I discovered metal. That’s just me. But perhaps, in other cases it could be the other way around. There’s a lot of progmetal heads that did go into other genres because of their original progmetal leanings. But metal heads in general aren’t the most open minded crowd, they tend to be singular and simple in their listening choices. I know one dude that is in arrested development mode since Tool and Deftones and Kreator and Rush. He’s no less a metal head, but he’s the most close minded music dude I know. I actually know classical players way more open minded, and they are generally the most conservative lot of listeners.

[@NitroModelsAndComics]

It was nice to have the majority of my feelings about Prog and metal in general being validated by those I respect. Thanks.

[@jess_n_atx]

I always felt as a progressive metal guy that i was better than everyone else. Thank you for confirming this

[@michaelzinna6536]

I'm a jazz player. However, to be a good jazz player you have to accept and listen to other types of music. Great is great and you have to get passed labels. I have a friend way younger than me, who's a prog metaler. His plahying is Masterful, and his compositions are very intense and intricate. There's alot to be learned from anybody

[@J-MLindeMusic]

The man just played the riff from "Icarus lives". I like this one.

[@foujj]

I feel there are open minded folks across the board in every genre. I'm not a metal head, but I like a lot of it. My two main problems with the genre are: 1) the extremely busy double kick, which I feel too often works against the pocket and 2) many of the vocalists who growl instead of sing. I'm a punk, so I'm not shy about a little screaming, but I really need some melody that doesn't sound like a respiratory condition.

[@ReasonableRam]

You nailed how I feel about it and I am a metal head, though I guess I more of an 80's metal head than a modern one. I was not a fan of the direction all metal vocals went after Phil Anselmo really popularized the growl with Pantera in the 90's. Don't get me wrong I love Pantera and Phil's vocals, but it really took over modern metal. Not sure if Vinnie Paul also brought up the popularity of the double kick during those times or if it was someone else.

[@aidandix7296]

I mean growls are best used as an accent for more complex emotions like how spiritbox uses them for anguish. Plus good growlers don't sound like a dying cat, they sound likr some sort of demon or monster which is kinda part of the appeal that pure beastly aggression 🤘 Personally I'm a progressive kinda guy but I've dabbled in lot's of the most extreme metal genres and there's definitely an appeal in the agression regard but i just like as varied taste as possible ☺️

[@ReasonableRam]

@@aidandix7296 Exactly. It's perfect to use them as accents.

[@king-manu2758]

Progressive metal has so many bands who don't do any growling. The double bass drumming is harder to escape though.

[@urban3Czar]

Rick, thanks for the terrific content. Excellent show. You take our musical appreciation to a whole new level. First met Tosin when I took my Son to his first ever live concert about 4 years ago. We did the VIP package so we could meet the band. Tosin actually let my Son play his guitar before the show started. My Son was of course awestruck. Tosin's as kind as he is gifted. They let us stick around for their warmup set before the crowd entered. My Son and I will cherish the moment forever. Keep up the great work!!

[@johnphipps4960]

Rick, I just want to say that I appreciate the little example clips that you toss into these interviews. it helps shape the perspective real quick with the exact concepts you are trying to discuss. It's very helpful to keep track of the discussion and help less knowledgeable viewers a way to follow.

[@JazzRockswithAdam]

But who was the first progressive metal godfather? Coltrane! He’s the direct link to Holdsworth.

[@groundead4lyfe]

Yes! Waited for this comment

[@russell_szabados]

Adam Smale yes, Holdsworth said many times that when he was young, he wanted to play a brass instrument, he wasn’t interested in the guitar. I’m not fully understanding the direct line from Coltrane to Holdsworth you stated. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but maybe I misunderstood what you meant. I also haven’t finished watching the video. That would help. 😝 Unless you’re referring to the way they each expanded the musical vocabulary of jazz by experimenting with unconventional harmony, and in Coltrane’s case, creating amazing and unique melodies (solos). (?) Not putting words in yr mouth, just taking a guess. Holdsworth was grounded in harmony derived from jazz, but he also developed it into a unique sound that’s closer to 20th century orchestral music. IMHO, his genius was how he arranged all the dissonances into a more fluid sound that washes over you rather than beats you on the head like Schoenberg or Webern.

[@JazzRockswithAdam]

@@russell_szabados Holdsworth definitely gave credit to Coltrane. Especially his "sheets of sound" phase. Coltrane influenced Holdsworth for sure!

[@russell_szabados]

@@JazzRockswithAdam well that answer works for me. Straight from the source!

[@jeffgarrison7056]

I love Prog Rock & Prog Metal!!! Love Petruccci!!! Love Abasi... this dude speaks like a professor & shreds like a virtuoso!!! Absolutely Brilliant!!! I could listen to you guys all day long!!! You're both interesting, intelligent, wise, hilariously funny, kindhearted, jovial and fun-loving, musical geniuses!!! Bravo!!! Standing Ovation!!! Encore!!!

[@MrDavepeebs]

Glad that Tosin gave James LaBrie some much deserved credit for his vocal abilities. Great interview, thoroughly enjoyed it.

[@diatonicdelirium1743]

Great talk, and Tosin makes me smile. Please continue to plug great artists like this Rick, having a relaxed but informed conversation.

[@zer0dave]

Great channel as always Rick, always honest and to the point. I had the chance to meet Tosin and Javier at an AAL Anniversary show a few years back. Him and Javier are some of my biggest "modern" guitar influences and I told them that their work was very inspiring to me and listening to it made me feel like the sky is the limit with my own material. Tosin said "I'm glad to hear that, that's why we do this". Totally cool dudes, so grateful to have the chance to meet some of my inspirations in life and very happy to see him on your channel! Get Javier on if you can, too!

[@TheNsxdude]

Absolutely love this !! Educated musicians talking about music and weaving emotions, science ... This is awesome. Well done !

[@swapnilj1452]

Great discussion, expected them to venture further and discuss Opeth's Death/Progressive/Jazz(in later albums) elements in their songs

[@ΓιάννηςΚόνιαρης-ζ6ζ]

Rick lets go for 2 million subs. Love you greetings from Greece

[@brannonevans3685]

I totally dig what Tosin is doing. A breath of fresh air in the guitar/music realm.

[@bebekguitar2007]

THIS is why I love your channel so much Rick, not only are you super educated and share your own knowledge, but you interview and pick the brains of some of the best musicians out there so we can all benefit. You are the MAN. God bless you sir.

[@jstro-hobbytech]

Blake Richardson from btbam is a drumming God. Sean reinhardt, rest in peace, was doing the jazz prog drumming in the early 90's with Cynic.

[@SALESPRODUCTIONS]

Basically - as a musician - Tosin is like an alien from another world.

[@KingGh0st_o]

Just going to leave this list of some of my favorite Progressive albums... Opath - Ghost Reveries Between the Buried and Me- Colors Animals as leaders. - Self-titled Candiria - 300% density Protest the Hero - Fortress Periphery - ll Nevermore - Dead heart in a dead world Dillinger Escape Plan - irony is a dead scene( I know you wanted me to put miss machine or calculating Infinity but I love Mike Patton) Meshuggah - destroy erase improve * Neurosis -times of Grace * technically maybe not progressive metal but Progressive and very experimental and a great album

[@canman87]

Tosin always has great input on things like this, as one would expect from someone of his caliber. I was fortunate enough to sit down with him for lunch during JPGU2.0 a couple years ago and he's a super personable and easy dude to talk to. Solid video, Rick; I really enjoyed it!

[@jonathanbonchak7389]

I don't understand a lot of the foundations of jazz, fusion, progressive music. But it's watching and hearing Tosin that draws me in. I can't even wrap my mind around how he plays much less how he composes. It's impossible to replicate and for someone like me, can be a challenge to even appreciate beyond "wow, that's crazy!". This conversation really helped in understanding a little more what gets guys like him out of bed in the morning to keep going. Thanks for this!!

[@JoshuaCastillo6309]

As a metalhead, I’m a huge fan of 80s music and Synthwave. You never really know what you’d like until you try it out. Dig what you dig.

[@solidground2024]

You need to interview one of the members of meshuggah.

[@ChoppedMutton]

I'm waiting for the day when Charles Berthoud makes an appearance on your channel or Scott's Bass Lessons. That kid knows his way around a bass.

[@MrScrofulous]

Yeah, he is a dude. Funny watching him ripping Davie504 without even really trying.

[@RobBCactive]

It'd be cool if Rick was caught by surprise! As for "not trying" I suspect the more he practiced, the easier it looks

[@janivelic2316]

Tosin is a jazz guru in metal. It all comes down to Mr. Holsworth....and Meshuggah that started the revolution in metal👌❤ What a privilege to listen to you both!🙏🏻🍻

[@shrainmusic]

Rick is such a gem for bringing us this content. Also the way he played that Icarus Lives riff was so cute omg.

[@petertesta2981]

You 2 should at least do a monthly show together . Would love to see a jam with both of you trading licks!!!

[@betweensuns1143]

Tosin is such a great ambassador of the guitar, and so deeply articulate. A man I'd love to know, though I confess I'm not a fan of his music or sound😂. But that's cool, talent is the beacon.

[@edwardyoung8241]

Great conversation. I was hoping one of these two gentleman would mention Fates Warning as originators. They basically took Iron Maiden/Rush and made it radically more complex over the course their first two or three albums, and then got VERY progressive on their next two. Others in the mid-80s did the same, but Fates Warning came up with the formula I would argue. Dream Theater inherited Fates Warning inventions in a very direct way, personal friends mentored by Matheos and crew.

[@Ryo7_7]

He named some the most important band's that inspired me. Love it.

[@watamatafoyu]

I'm so glad you intersperse chat with audio clips; I listen to several guitarist podcasts and they tend to only play clips at the end.