Marathon World Record Has A Huge Problem

[@Pingpongeditz1215]

For me the biggest thing is: There is doping in the sport, obviously, people get banned all the time. But all those dopers aren’t breaking world records by 2 minutes. What does Ruth chepengetich have that everyone else doesn’t have access to? Cause there are plenty of dopers who aren’t doing this. It must simply be an incredible world record

[@acasualviewer5861]

My belief is that they're getting better at training women. In Kenya they train in large groups and their techniques are becoming more and more competitive. Also, probably more women have been choosing the sport from a young age compared to previous years. So better training + larger pool = better results. I'm not sure that other countries have as solid communal training systems. Kenya, Uganda and Ethiopia seems to be ahead of the game in this regard. By comparison training in the US is a largely solitary affair

[@juancarlosbravoroman7265]

Looking at all her marathons: the oldest strategy in the book. She always starts extremely fast and then she goes on and prays that she can keep a similar pace for the rest of the race. I wanna believe that she got EXTREMELY lucky this time. She had already narrowly missed the then-world record by 14 seconds in 2022. She was a couple of minutes ahead of Brigid Kosgei's record, got too tired, and she petered out after km 30.

[@brianmckee2267]

She had pacers the whole way, I'm pretty sure that's the main difference maker.

[@mayurski]

Doping in a marathon has crazy cardiac risks heck no it aint worth it

[@acasualviewer5861]

@@brianmckee2267 certainly helps.. though oddly it was the slower pacer who got a PB that stook with her the longest.

[@k.alex.4885]

Until there is evidence, we all need to leave Ruth alone. Kiptum did the same thing, and no one has proven differently.

[@joshuaroque6514]

There’s no discussion here. She ran within the rules of the event and World Athletics. Period. Until the rules change, it’s in the best interest of Every athlete to maximize their result within the confines of the rules.

[@saljablo2767]

Having those two world class pacers is huge.

[@drytool]

I agree with you. You still have to do the running but the mental stress has to be less. I also think there might be a world wide awakening of women's parity with men in endurance sports. Women are increasingly placing with men in ultra marathons. The incredible speed record for the Appalachian Trail is now held by a woman.

[@edwinsena9365]

They didn't carry her! She still had to run with her own feet and the race organizers were the ones that paid those pacers cuz they wanted fast times.

[@beboshi69]

Pacers were doping

[@MarkLawrenceKiefer]

The Marathon is about shaving tiny bits off of the edges to get better. Yep, this is a huge jump. She changed shoes, that is a bit. She had pacers, that is a bit. She had the conditions, that is a bit. Lets also not forget that for a good chunk of this race she had competition, that is a bit. People do quit. I believe there are still races that don't allow pacers. Maybe have a record for with pacers and one without. When javelins started going out of the field they modified the javelin to not go as far. Are we suggesting that runners can only run in shoes designed before 2015? How about 1980? Time moves forward. She might go to her next marathon and run a 2:18 in a gale, with sideways rain. For me that would be more impressive. Everything just lined up for her that day.

[@littlebobbystrong4143]

World Athletic does not want to bust a high profile world record holder in a major event. They are fighting a tough battle to grow the sport.

[@payrysdoscs4903]

So basically supershoes are out of control and Mayaka's full-race pacing (which I'd never seen before outside of Eliud's sub-2 attempts) really helped too.

[@michealsizemore1]

I still have a hard time believing this record, but until proven otherwise, we have to believe it.

[@kipkoechtoo9457]

And what if Sifan Hassan come and run 2:08. I am sure you would believe that one!!!

[@TheChessRunner]

​@@kipkoechtoo9457don't be ridiculous. That 100% would be doped too. Like this is 99% sure

[@barry5138]

I don't have to believe anything, and I don't believe this record.

[@michealsizemore1]

@@barry5138 That's a fair opinion.

[@dygon7663]

I guess sexism is still alive and kicking.

[@Visionary0001]

Excellent video. My take is that critics have simply CHOSEN to not believe that Ruth's WR performance is authentic, the same way many doubted Roger Bannister's sub-4 mile on the track, back in 1954. People didn't believe that his record was possible, either. (It was simply too "disruptive" at the time.)

[@ShaneRuns]

Why didn’t Ruth compete in the Olympics? That’s the part that baffles me.

[@andrewmitchell5807]

The pacers were way more assistance than the shoes.

[@rossfripp4503]

I'm not convinced taking more strides makes a bigger difference. If you're going slower, and don't weigh as much, you won't compress the foam and load the plate so much....swings and roundabouts. I think it's much of a muchness.

[@anthonnybrownnn9760]

The rader been breach again.

[@Leeroy49]

Shows how good Paula really was ❤

[@danielduffy5284]

💉 💉

[@JasonC683]

nobody rats on her because she is white, watch this comment get downvoted by triggered bots now

[@woolfel]

Pacers make a huge difference. I do road cycling. From my own experience, having a group of guys setting a steady pace for 30 miles is the difference between 24 mph and 20 mph. In contrast, when a group of guys are constantly attacking each other, the avg pace is slower than steady pace. If I haven't experienced this first hand dozens of times, i wouldn't believe how much steading pacing impacts performance.

[@secretagent86]

Ex bicycle racer so yes drafting is real, but the higher the speed the greater the energy saved

[@offwaikikibeach]

On top of that, she never had to change her cadence to PICK UP HER ENERGY BOTTLE. Surely, one of the PACERS did that. There’s a lot of breathing stress at the emergy/water tables at each 5k time. Next year the Chicago organizers will ALLOW Ruth to have a 4 foot long hose for her energy bottle. One pacer will hold the bottle while she sips HANDS FREE. She does not worry about veering away from BLUE LINE or even using shorter TANGENT.

[@sf5838]

Why are we still talking about this? I hate this kind of shit in 2024. Are we just going to keep saying someone is doping if they keep doing the unthinkable? Let her test positive for doping. If she doesn't, then let's keep our suspicions to ourselves. Also, if this person was an American, they wouldn't be talking shit about shoes and credibility. Same shit people did when Tobi Amusan broke the world record and people were talking about her shoes. We wouldn't be saying all of these if Ruth or Tobi were Americans. We have Sydney doing what humanly we never thought was possible and nobody is questioning if she is doping or not. Nobody is questioning Duplantis who breaks records for breakfast. Some times, a record is just a record. Other people are running with the super shoes and pacers but they aren't breaking world records. I hope this would be the last video on this race until news comes out that she used PEDs.

[@threatened2024]

The way she paced her run was terrible, it's amazing she didn't hit the wall. I have to assume she could run faster. Not sure about women benefitting more from super shoes, as there could be other factors at play; like weight thresholds, power to weight ratios, individual biomechanics, etc.

[@judsdragon]

its not quite to the stage of gaming and Pay To Win but considering the prices of these new supershoes and the lack of longevity of them in racing shelf life its definitely widening the gap between the haves and have nots imo, the fact that Paula Radcliffe is still in the all time top 5 against all these supershoe runners is mind boggling and highlights her class was way above the best in the world

[@BrendonSchaferCT]

There is something else at play, in my opinion. And I think there have been studies done on this too. The women tend to fair better at endurance events than men. The longer the race, the better they fair. It would usually be valid for ultra marathons though. Not sure how valid it is for standard marathon. The shoe story has a ring of validity to it too. As you pointed out - many factors coming together at the same time. Something else that should be considered... she may well have had a great day at the office too. I'm avoiding the drug question as I am sure she will be tested and has been tested and will continue to be tested and will leave that question where it should be.

[@jayjay7-m8q]

Andrew out of curiosity why didn't you cover the U20 double by Bayanda Walaza. Nothing but respect

[@OrzVanced-oq6wj]

Ruthless Chepngetich. Greetings from🇧🇷👟👍🏼

[@kimf86]

This is akin to putting springs under ur feet which would be ridiculous. They banned the super suits in swimming pretty fast after they came to be. Why would iaaf allow these shoes to keep being legal is beyond me. And as for the question, Paula Radcliffe is the real wr holder to me. Running is done with your feet, not with technology strapped under them. I really hope we will see a ban as soon as possible

[@Ougagagoubou]

I have to believe the doping testing is done at the highest level now than it ever has; without any evidence we can't make claims this was done due to substance use. I understand shoes play some part, and male pacers obviously play significant part too. I previously thought OK, these explained the previous huge WR before this one. So it surprised, how could similar -2m record happen two times in a row. Would be interesting to see competitive women's marathon. How big effect do the male pacers really give. They certainly give advantage that makes the results not comparable to men's records anymore.

[@10ktube]

Fueling has become more of a trainable advantage for men and women now, with how fast these times are. We have about 2 hours of glycogen in our bodies, hence how the "20 mile wall" myth came about, because back in the day when people could "only" muster a 6 flat mile, viola, 20 miles in 2 hours. Unless you were running 6 flat miles, your wall came sooner. Now, with times hovering in the 2 hour mark and low 2's for women, it's a game of sugar and not running out of glycogen. Coupled with equipment, pacing, etc. etc., the bonk is barely even a consideration for a professional athlete in all but the most fluke of situations. So we don't have the fade happening anymore with times, seriously men are dropping 4:2x miles late in the race just to "shake things up". Even if we say the "d" word here, they still need fuel to do this, red blood cells don't just work forever.

[@DA-bp8lf]

Since it was unofficial and is only an exhibition run, iam assuming he was never tested for illegal doping? So who’s to say he didn’t juice up before this run??

[@MarkHiggins-hq1st]

Are the super shoes more effective for women because they are perhaps 10k lighter or more but are still allowed the same amount of foam in mm and the carbon fibre will have more percentage rebound effect with a much lighter person a 300lb person would get minimal rebound using this theory.

[@Ockersvin]

We can’t allow shoes with soles that are that thick. It’s preposterous.

[@martinn4031]

Only Paula Radcliffe (bar 1 exception from as late as 2017) gets in the top 40 times pre super-shoe era - and she did it 3 times.

[@proudvirginian]

A world class, elite male runner isn't doing much compression (comparatively speaking) of those shoes due to weight.

[@josedelnegro46]

The passage presents a complex theory about how environmental and physiological factors may have influenced a runner’s performance in Chicago. I’ll first refine the text for clarity, then address the plausibility of the theory. Edited Version: --- I assert that the conditions in Chicago were optimal for this specific runner and uniquely suited to them. We can insert all the variables we want into an equation, but given that each human being is a complex system composed of trillions of cells in symbiosis with trillions of external cells, we must consider each individual separately. Now, let’s imagine that the two pacers’ main function wasn’t just to maintain pace but to manage timing. Suppose a team consisting of a scientist, a mathematician, and the runner’s trainer informed the runner of the critical moments on the course and the exact times they needed to hit at each checkpoint. If so, each checkpoint reached on schedule could trigger an adrenaline surge in the runner. If the runner were trained to manage these adrenaline spikes smoothly, this could provide a natural legal advantage over competitors who might experience mistimed adrenaline bursts, resulting in “boom-to-bust” cycles of energy. We observe a similar phenomenon in life, where individuals who can regulate their natural fight-or-flight responses often outperform those who cannot, the latter sometimes relying on intense yet unsustainable bursts of energy. For instance, paramilitary groups in Latin America are known to enhance their fighting capabilities with cocaine and improve survivability using opium derivatives. In contrast, government troops trained at institutions like the School of the Americas often rely solely on rigorous, clean training methods, showing a different kind of discipline and endurance. Back to the runner in Chicago: the key here might be their lower bone density, which makes them susceptible to calcium-related issues affecting bone repair. Regardless of how minimal a stimulant dose might be, it could lead to metabolic deficiencies over time. Thus, it’s plausible to conclude that the conditions on that specific day in Chicago-everything from the weather to the timing strategies-were perfect for that runner alone. Similar to the sub-2-hour marathon record, these were conditions that came together uniquely for that athlete and might never align the same way again. --- Assessment of Plausibility: 1. Individual Response to Environmental Factors: The argument that a specific set of environmental factors could uniquely benefit one runner is plausible. Factors like temperature, humidity, wind, and course layout can significantly impact individual performance. Different runners have unique physiological characteristics (like bone density, oxygen uptake, and heat tolerance), which makes some conditions more advantageous for certain athletes. 2. Psychological and Adrenaline Management: The idea that strategic pacing combined with precise timing cues could trigger controlled adrenaline surges in the runner is grounded in established sports science. Adrenaline management is a crucial aspect of high-performance training, as well-timed surges can boost performance, while uncontrolled bursts can lead to early burnout. Thus, the role of pacers and timing specialists isn’t far-fetched. 3. Comparison with Paramilitary and Military Training: While the comparison aims to illustrate the role of discipline and clean training versus external enhancement, the connection to the runner’s situation could be perceived as indirect. Still, the general principle that mental and physical control is crucial under pressure holds true. 4. Bone Density and Metabolic Issues: The assertion about low bone density affecting calcium absorption and metabolic efficiency suggests a specific physiological limitation. While this could be a concern for some athletes, the impact would depend on multiple variables, such as diet, training, and recovery strategies. 5. Unique Conditions for the Runner: The concept that the conditions on that day were “perfect” for the runner in question (similar to how Eliud Kipchoge’s sub-2-hour marathon attempt had ideal conditions) is plausible. Elite athletes sometimes benefit from a confluence of variables that maximize their potential on a given day. Conclusion: The theory’s core idea-that specific environmental, physiological, and psychological conditions could create an optimal scenario for one runner-is reasonable and supported by sports science principles. However, the argument could benefit from more detailed and empirical data to substantiate claims about bone density, metabolic issues, and pacing strategies.

[@currawong2011]

To create a level playing field, they need to run barefooted...or, all with the same shoes.

[@th82m26]

And they will still not believe, they will come up with all theories shoe technology, pacers, elevation, weather.....

[@saljablo2767]

You will always have skeptics at the highest levels of competitions. Especially when a world record is shattered. 😊

[@davidpadilla6095]

2:07:00? Come on

[@emma.bridgeforth]

no way 🤯

[@Loots1]

rip Kelvin Kiptum, greatest marathon runner of all time

[@FPL_Bantam]

Its no big surprise that the Womens world record had tumbled. Paula Radcliffe and Mary Keitany were hinting, in their performances, that sub 2:10:00 was possible. And that was 20 years ago, or 15 years ago, whatever you wanna call it. With the passage of time and the invention of supershoes, 2hrs9 is absolutely no surprise. In endurance running, performance enhancement is such a rare problem and a negligible concern, I always think anyone advancing such an argument, just doesnt believe in running / isnt a running fan.

[@zacsakacsi]

No discussion. She's doping. Period

[@増田紀宜]

走り方が 初めて2時間20分を切った高橋尚子を思い出させる！！

[@DanielKendall2010]

There should be a separate category where doping is allowed, like screw it let’s see how fast a human really can run a marathon

[@Dqtube]

Let me put it this way. The average person watching live sport is not interested in seeing in real time someone having a heart attack, stroke or completely overheating and collapsing like they did before doping tests in the deep past of cycling.

[@Kvbftng]

The women's record is only 8 minutes behind the men next year it will be 6 minutes

[@matthattful]

Well they get paid for every time they break world record, sooo there’s always room for improvement 😉 just ask Sydney M-N and that pole vaulter that keep breaking their own records 😂

[@pauldhoff]

Blood test are done.

[@rodneyallister9877]

I was a harrier for 30 years I trained for marathons 100 miles a week and track work Best time 218. Is this woman man??

[@SM-wg7ty]

Just a faster woman than you

[@kakashihatake-gc3jj]

Manda salve ❤

[@Murata_mwega]

The wold record is legit. If it was about the shoes, the other Athletes should invest on those ‘Superwoman shoes’.Otherwise, stop hating!

[@Chattannooga]

moon boots

[@mabotiyn]

Am wondering why no one debated when Tigist Assefa ran 2:11.53. Remember she slashed over 2 mins from the previous record. Screw anyone questioning the record. You go have your mother ran faster

[@Ougagagoubou]

People certainly questioned how that one was possible too. It was easier to explain as some new tools were used then, compared to previous records, notably the male pacers but suppose shoes too were new. This time though, no new technology was provided. This doesn't indicate cheating, but it makes sense why people want to question everything.

[@lanagorgeous9485]

I guess super shoes just don't work for American and European women! That all sounds like BS, American women were also paced in Chicago!

[@andrewstorm8240]

But then every female runner should be using Nike

[@Labben91]

For me the biggest problem with the record for women, is that the pacers are men.

[@carina9629]

Why cant we just test her for performance enhancing drugs?

[@threatened2024]

She was tested after the race and will likely be tested more often now

[@carina9629]

@@threatened2024 oh ok! Do you know if the post-race test came up with any results?

[@alb.1911]

Epic.

[@johntiffault5156]

Did they perform a blood test to rule out doping? If they allow her record with pacers and shoes, then they have to allow Kipchoges record too. Fair is fair.

[@edwinsena9365]

This is all BS! Then just make the shoes the same as the ones from 2019 and have her and all other athletes wear the 2019's running shoes and test them for illigal drugs and see the results so you can all just leave people alone! Test them and again use the non super shoes and them talk! Stop the hate and jealousy please. Just call the right organization and do the test.

[@chrissellers4519]

I'll say it again, if this record was a man it wouldn't get as much suspicion.

[@joemonoco1977]

Yes it would. If a man ran 2 minutes faster than the current WR, it would get the same suspicion.

[@johnrusche8256]

Perhaps the sport needs to get back to nature and require barefooted runners need only apply. And NO DRAFTING. And you start and end at the same point. And how about carry all liquids and food with you from the start too. And carry a Greek shield and spear. And speak in ancient Greek the message you have come to deliver. But allow doping. If you can't enforce it why try?

[@erikmartin4996]

This is gay. Having a moving wall in front of you and pacing is ridiculous

[@mbaihaule7885]

Enough of this nonsense. We now need to leave Ruth Chepng'etich out of this madness until proven otherwise...

[@josephgonzalez_]

Other women ran in the Alphafly 3s, and had pacers. The Alphafly 3 isn’t such a massive step up from the Vaporfly 3 either - in fact I know plenty of folk who don’t like it. The question remains: why was this performance so outstanding compared to others in this same race and in other recent races? Shoes and pacers aren’t the differentiating factor. And why was Ruth able to post some splits faster than she’s ever run before? Your explanation is incomplete, and it seems to me deliberately so. Too hot a political potato for you to handle now is it? You’ve spent more than enough time making videos on the other topic you so studiously avoided here.

[@missmercurys]

I am beginning to think this is sexism. Female athletes get held to higher standards when they break records. Unless they have any proof that says otherwise they need to let it go.

[@deadlytsg2792]

Like won't you get suspicious if a male runner who has a PB of 2:03 suddenly sets a new world record of 1:58? It's the same thing

[@chuckd5819]

I''m beginning to think you only see things through one lens, and that your the sexist.

[@Pingpongeditz1215]

No

[@markgeers8488]

Nah, it's simply a ludicrous record. 4+ minutes of a PB for top athletes is absolutely unheard of, same with over 2 minutes off the WR (which was already an insane record). So you were bound to get scepticism, regardless of gender. I still believe we should keep the stance "innocent until proven guilty", but I can't lie this record really does almost seem too good to be true

[@Pingpongeditz1215]

Women have more advantages in running. They get pacers the whole race where as men only get pacers for the first part

[@miosilver9718]

Sports are crap. It's impossible to evaluate methods other than some scraps of information and the fact that these new generation of lousy running shoes help you bounce off the ground. Where is the line at which an advantage is given that makes running not running? Bicycles have gotten much better over time too, but at least they haven't learned to bounce off the road like the man on the moon. Even such a nasty, difficult sport as chess with its draw-computer crisis seems more open than running

[@Trizzer89]

I think it is legit

[@joedirnfeld]

The clock was fixed, plus he/ she was wearing special socks. She is great!!

[@willienganga]

Women could break 2:05 before men break 2:00. Women's WR progression in the marathon has been way massive compared to men's.

[@rossfripp4503]

Not a chance.

[@skillissue3574]

Yeah she aint clean. The shoes dont shave 4 minutes off of her pr or whatever it was. Neither does the pacing or any other factors besides a new drug. Either that or she was not getting tested very often. Most top marathoners have smooth form. That is important because energy inefficiency really becomes a problem in a race this long. An athlete I can think who had bad form was Ekiru who was banned for 20 years. Her form is not particularly smooth so are we supposed to believe she can go faster that Frank Shorter? His milage and training was crazy and I dont believe a woman could beat that clean for at least another decade or 2.

[@bgmail6858]

You suspect, and you may have good reason to suspect, but you don't KNOW. People really should acknowledge the distinction.

[@michaelolande8763]

Tell us of the name of the new drug. Kenya does not produce drugs and if she used it, then there must be a supplier. We must say this. Drug or no drug, it was an incredible run

[@skillissue3574]

@@michaelolande8763 It was a great run I think the drug could be Roxadustat. It has similar benefits to EPO. If she wanted to risk it she might Microdose GW1516. But as the testers themselves say doping is always ahead of antidoping so there might be a new drug with niche medical uses but valuable benefits in Athletics.

[@cosmicphoenix162]

So by your logic Paula Radcliffe wasn’t clean, because she didn’t have the smoothest running form.

[@skillissue3574]

@@cosmicphoenix162 Well Paula Radcliffe is more suspicious in my mind than any of the athletes right now. With all the improvements and everything that happened her record could not be touched for 15 years. The clean form is not a guarantee either way just different levels of suspicion. I would love for her to be clean I just don't believe that a world record by 2 minutes like this is clean.

[@luispalacios7412]

Main factor we know is the shoe technology, but obviously pacing for the entire race helps a lot.

[@domchubs5836]

1:17 Did he? Or did Nike and the wind tunnel he was running in break 2 hours? What is the difference if he ran directly behind a massive parachute mounted on a car? Sick of people claiming stuff like this is a record. He didn't do his own running if the air was pushed out of the way for him.

[@kimobailey2926]

This record doesn’t pass the sniff test , if she isn’t juicing then its just unbelievable .

[@FPL_Bantam]

Why?! The WR which was only 15 seconds per mile slower was ran 21 years ago! With advancements in shoe technology, better and more focused male pace running, advancements in training and nutrition....there's an argument to say that with the likes of all time running greats like Tirunesh Dibaba and Sifan Hassan bringing track speed to marathons...sub 2:10 was long overdue

[@thedailystride5407]

First

[@brentburnett6658]

Amazing run wether clean or not. I would be more concerned about the course because the runner has the various split times. Video and other corroborating evidence. IMO not hard to believe as women can and should be running fast times like these. Guys do it all the time! It’s about time the ladies run sub 2:10. Logic is we see the ladies running much faster like faith and even the high school and collegiate have impressive time or improvement. Doing a marathon by doing what has already be done as a repeat of a repeat 🔂 is what we have here. Give credit due to the ladies and for the new world record standard. Yikes 😱 Suspect guys will break 2 officially though we know kipchoge has already done it

[@FPL_Bantam]

Agree I think sub 2:10 was overdue. Was it 2003 when Paula ran 2:15? Its only like the progression between Paul Tergat and Kelvin Kiptum, over exactly the same time-span.