Touching Her On A Date

[@togotfury]

Im not going to jail with a sexual assault accusation. Women have been complaining about men thouching them for years. Im keeping my hands to myself

[@khaledassaf6356]

This, 100%

[@DoctorFail]

It's a trap

[@1TightMinute]

I’m sick of there advice being. I know you could get it trouble in you guess incorrectly but just look for the signals. Signals don’t mean anything. Courts only care about things that were said.

[@martinpalm5]

100 percent not worth the risk.

[@trolleymouse]

It's amazing how often dating advice women give to men amounts to "stop listening to women when they tell you what you should do." And how often dating advice men give to women amounts to "listen to what we've been telling you this whole damn time."

[@bhart3321]

This kind of stuff men stopped doing because we were told outright it was creepy & sa adjacent. Women created this issue so women gotta learn to break touch barrier first not men. Guys follow this woman's advice (the one in the video) at your own peril. Lin at least highlighted the issues with her advice.

[@Debilitate_]

Facts. I only felt comfortable doing this on a date when she gave pretty overt displays of touch ex: getting closer, slightly above inconspicuous nudging, etc, just things that sets you up. The ones that just flat out expect you to do these things unprompted either haven't been paying attention this last decade (and a bit) or are simply just plain bad communicators who deserve to be where they're at.

[@protorhinocerator142]

If I were to touch a woman like this on a date and it becomes one two many, where she pulls back in disgust, I will walk out without a word. There's no way to fix this. What - stop touching her and become the "other kind" of weirdo? Make her feel unwanted because I'm not touching her? What is the appropriate amount of time to wait before touching her again? There's no reasonable answer to this, and now continuing becomes unreasonable. Stand up. Walk away. Done. If she's stranded at the restaurant, oh well. Bye. Been there before, and looking back, this is exactly what I should have done. Never make that mistake again. The first time she recoils from a touch, that's it. Game over. Lose my number.

[@jasperzanovich2504]

No, if they don't explicitly state that they want you to touch them you are still on the hook. Women got the right by law to go through the motions, seeming like they enjoy it, giving no hint whatsoever that they don't want it but still charge you with grape 4 weeks later.

[@nrais76]

If I'm asking permission it's not because I'm insecure, it's because I'M LITERALLY REQUIRED BY LAW TO DO SO, and I am not exagerrating. That said, this is good advice if we are dealing with sane people. (Lin's, I mean.)

[@TheAardvark211]

The number of touches before a woman starts to get creeped out, is directly related to how good looking she believes you to be. If you are a 6 then 2, maybe 3 is the limit. If you’re a 9 or 10 then there is no limit. The problem is, you are going to have to read her mind.

[@afleser]

Not worth anymore, they can falsely accuse you months after dating stopped.

[@Variable-2-actual]

In my state it can be decades later.

[@1TightMinute]

Actual laws on books in most states that say you aren’t allowed to touch them the way she described without consent. In my state it’s called offensive contact. I know you are going to say “most girls aren’t going to get the cops involved they’ll just send a signal that lets you know they aren’t interested.” So know the responsibility is on the guy to pick up on those signals and if he misses them then she can get the police involved. In her mind she would be justified in doing so. Why women can’t just say things directly, I’ll never understand. Keep in mind she can touch you all she wants and that doesn’t mean you are allowed to touch her back unless she expressly tells you it’s ok. That’s the world we live in so stop telling men to read signals. If youI want to help tell women they need to convey in words what they want or stop making every awkward encounter into a SA.

[@mathius_dragoon532]

The problem is that the "appropriate amount of touch" is different for every woman. Men are never sure if they have done things right, they can only be totally sure when they royally screw up.

[@protorhinocerator142]

And the sweet spot is too narrow. Sometimes there is none. 6 isn't enough touches but 4 is too many. You can't fix this. There's no right answer.

[@kenrickman6697]

@@protorhinocerator142 There is absolutely a right answer! The only way to win is to not play in the first place.

[@Korfax124]

I was thinking about this exact thing after a date I was on recently and I concluded that I shouldn't do it without a good reason, like you said, it has to feel "natural"... There's a lot you have to think about on a date, so it's not easy man...

[@wherami]

Hand on a knee got me In jail and cost me 10k in legal costs

[@marcbrunelle7562]

I am glad I dated before all the social media expert’s arrived. lol

[@zevfarkas5120]

Consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. 🙄

[@darktenor4967]

Women: "we want men to leave women alone! Any man who touches a woman without express consent is a creep!" also women: "why are men leaving us alone! what happened to intimacy?"

[@LadyFairChildVideo]

bro, even married dudes can get accused of the r rhymes with ape word for touching their wives. there's absolutely no reason to date or get married for a man.

[@sneezyfido]

In NL a new law was recently implemented with lots of noise. In short, it is now a criminal offense to so much as touch a woman without her express consent, and it's on you to prove to legal standards that she did actually consent. They say that it's only intended to combat sexual harassment, but the definitions are so wide that it's basically her feels against his inability to prove anything at all without attributable written communication. Yeah.. no. We are not even getting to that date when I can't propose one without her using legal action to communicate that she declines.

[@HansBezemer]

Glad I grew up before this nonsense started. Yeah, I hear you. They defend that decision with "..but only if there is other, supporting evidence". Well, if that evidence is there - and suffices why do you need this change of law in the first place? If I were young nowadays I'd go MGTOW. You don't know who you're dealing with, you're young - and one false judgement of character, even if you're innocent, may ruin your entire life. I'd rather play with nitroglycerin. Much safer.

[@1TightMinute]

Most stay have laws like that now. You need verbal consent for everything. It’s the way the world works. Keep in mind, they can touch you all they want and that still doesn’t mean they consent to being touched back. Signals don’t matter. Even actions don’t matter. I can’t believe they want men to just do it anyway and risk getting in trouble. Detached from reality.

[@sneezyfido]

@@1TightMinute and in case of dispute it's on the man to prove that she did in fact consent

[@sibhuskyguy]

I always let her lead the situation on first dates... Too much legal liability if you don't... Just because I want something doesn't mean she does unless she shows me the right amount of interest or outright says to do it.

[@sibhuskyguy]

people also forget, as a man... the absolute first step is at some point to try to simply take her hand in yours... the correct approach is to offer your hand and simply say "may I"

[@jeffharper7579]

True but unfortunately for me I like to have them tell me exactly what they want but seems to me that they think something is wrong with me for doing that and that's why I am alone. If I do something it's wrong if don't it's wrong😵😵😵😵😵.

[@sibhuskyguy]

@@jeffharper7579 if she will not respect your boundaries or respect wanting innocent physical interaction like holding hands.... it's what's wrong with them not you...

[@desmondcoppin591]

What you want should also matter So they are right, Larry. (Specified name because can not reply specifically to you for some reason.

[@jeffharper7579]

All I know is life is getting harder and I don't have a clue, I don't know what to do anymore, no matter what I do is wrong😞😵😵😵😵😵

[@talhaomair1455]

Physical touch actually depends on how attractive a guy is. A decent guy will be charged for false SA accusation, I'd rather swim in river full of alligators than to be *NEAR* a woman without a body cam and a face mask.

[@chrischiba9336]

Future single cat ladies.

[@Variable-2-actual]

On my last date, in 2001 she had already got to the restaurant and was seated with food ordered. Months later I found out she was already living with a man and trying to sleep with a guy at her work. Not the person I thought she was.

[@davidp2888]

We've been told not to touch, so we're not touching. Don't call us out and get offended if we don't touch, because...we're doing as you initially told us to. A simple touch can lead to an assault charge, so no. I'll pass on touching until and unless you initiate it and clearly say you consent.

[@uoabigaillevey]

Yeah nope. Unless she initiated and even then there's the risk of SA accusations. Not worth risking your reputation or freedom.

[@MrFox-rf3cu]

When I went on a first date, I NEVER touched them at all. (This is back in the 70's and 80's, even back then.) Nor would I try to kiss her at the end of the evening. The situation is that she's expecting you to try to kiss her, so she gets to reject it and laugh later. So no, I wouldn't offer the kiss. I wanted to show that I wasn't "just after one thing." By the second date, SHE is initiating the touching, and usually more than I ever would have...

[@stephenclarke6347]

Just more reasons so many men adopt the MGTOW lifestyle. Men just can't be bothered with all those mind games.

[@kevinmorrissey9709]

as a man just don't date. Then you can't fuck it up.

[@Juvyss]

This is why I won't play the game.

[@desmondcoppin591]

Bro most women are not like this.

[@Juvyss]

@@desmondcoppin591 then I would be fine, would I not? If they "are not like this," then I have nothing to fear about not playing the game

[@desmondcoppin591]

@@Juvyss ??? I’m confused. I was saying that most women don’t act the way this person does, with the physical touch and all that. My point was that this is not a valid reason to not “play the game”, as a majority of women do not expect that sort of thing. I’m not trying to say you should play the game, but this shouldn’t be the reason why.

[@Juvyss]

@@desmondcoppin591 then my point is even more valid, if "most women," don't make you play the game, then not playing it means that if someone tries to make me play, I know she's not for me

[@sugarnads]

All Im hearing is 'pls give me the option of having you arrested for sexual assault if i dont like you'. 1st fkn date is a meet and greet NOTH7NG MORE.

[@notoriousj_]

Nope, not gonna catch a case

[@mikerogers9871]

You need a contract now for f sake!

[@marcus813]

I'm leery of touching women I don't know well without them telling me they want me to because there's no telling how they'll react. I don't wanna make them uncomfortable.

[@JackFelker]

Absolutely not. Unless you’re a Chad or Tyrone or a millionaire she’s interested in men should never touch any woman unless he wants to go to prison. Every man I know does their best to stay outside touching distance of women. Men have learned that lesson along with all the other lessons women taught us. Our freedom and our lives are way more valuable to us men than women.

[@johnnymac6178]

This video is all the proof any man needs as to why NEVER to take advice from women. 2 different women, giving 2 different takes on something we all know can get a man in actual legal trouble in todays world, which they will say what they want out loud on a video but never in real life when talking to a man. Touch just enough but not too much, ask if it's ok and your insecure, don't ask at all and your a creep. Just stay single brothers, when women get their act together and become rational adults we can all sit at the negotiation table and carve out a new social contract for the future. Until then, enjoy your life and let them suffer without your money, attention, time, or other resources. They will learn eventually.

[@mikewhitaker2880]

there NEEDS to be touch on a date, but the FIRST time you try you suddenly find yourself in jail for Rap3.... because that's how MODERN women are these days..... and then they wonder where all the good men have gone.. simple, we are either hiding in our own homes alone, or you put them in jail for false allegations....

[@hilariousname6826]

What - you go in for the hug at the beginning of the first date? Not unless you are already comfortable with each other - or you don't mind a bit of rejection to start off the evening ... !

[@LanceTobey]

Any touching in the first few dates should be very fleeting. Touch her hand, but don't linger. Just a quick touch. If you touch her shoulder, do it just for a quick moment. This, to me anyway, expresses interest while not making it overly creepy. And absolutely read her body language. If she pulls away or otherwise shows that the doesn't appreciate being touch, just don't touch her. She may just not be that into you.

[@jokerjosh3]

I think this is good advice rather than all the other comments of guys who are quitters and sour about women.

[@jaimeosbourn3616]

@@jokerjosh3 Please feel free to implement his advice. We can start a betting pool on how quickly you end up in jail.

[@jokerjosh3]

@@jaimeosbourn3616 You proved my point 👉 👈

[@DoctorFail]

...nah, aint worth it.

[@FIZZYIZZYFTW]

Oh no way never on the first couple of dates nowadays especially when these people are on multiple dates with multiple people🎉

[@Mordurin]

And here is a guide to get accused and #metoo'd....

[@zerstorer335]

It can be a touchy subject (pun absolutely intended) because the line between "good touch" and "bad touch" can be blurry and there's no requirement for someone to warn you you're about to touch or touching them in a place they don't accept. A hug could easily be considered way over the line and a touch on the knee considered grounds for a slap. It's not only what feels natural to YOU, but what feels natural to the PERSON YOU'RE TOUCHING. And that could change based on how many dates you've gone on, together or how long you've known each other. First date or you haven't had a first kiss, yet? Maybe touching / kissing the hand is safer. Offering them your arm or a light brush with the elbow or shoulder may also be safer since, while it allows contact, few people going to say you were trying to grope them with your elbow or brushing against them like you might do against a stranger in an elevator.

[@albertastorms]

I don’t like hugs from people in general, but also from a woman that has not earned my trust. I come from the 80’s childhood of where hugs were rare (At least in my home).

[@alterego157]

Where can I find the original video?

[@ChrisSnell-d4m]

The guy who's intuition guides him through the date, will know right away who to be authentic with, and therefor be successful in his quest.

[@sugarnads]

Youre a chick right. Intuition. Bullsh8t in other words.

[@NerdlySquared]

People have no social skills anymore and tend to imagine dumb things when they hear advice like this, which just gets them in trouble. She’s not talking about running your hand up a thigh on a first date 10 minutes after you meet someone, If that’s what you automatically pictured, you messed up already. It’s more little playful tugs and pulls and watching reactions, every step of the way. Opening with a hug is almost always a low risk option, you can see if it’s extremely reserved or awkward, don’t keep escalating if you see that. If it’s warm and open and welcome; you can ask to see her rings at some point and hold her hand in yours while doing so, or brush her hair away gently to better see an earring she is showing off to you. Watch her facial expressions as you do so, to see how welcome any of it is. You can gently lead her with your hand on the small of her back to sit or through doors, or out of a car etc. Hold her hand to get out of the car or to help her get up from a seat. It’s little things and perpetual observation, that’s the only way it works, it builds off itself. Unfortunately, it has to be you to break that touch barrier and it has to be you to try to observe and interpret the reactions, but once comfortable you would be amazed how much women want to touch you in various ways when they feel safe and comfortable enough to do so, how much they actually enjoy that. People can keep consoling themselves that every interaction is just an allegation waiting to happen, but the above is just the reality of how dating works, you can’t skip it, it has to happen one way or another eventually and you have to be observant every step of the way throughout the whole dance. Which is what it is.

[@ham8426]

As an autistic man i would not breach her space without consent, i also wouldnt ask, for a first date i might offer to shake hands and hug as a parting gesture but nothing more.

[@josef-gorosinhuf5003]

Stupid games. Don't know why I got this recommended. Just concentrate on yourself and do what you want and they usually want to be a part of it.

[@ozzycortes]

You can’t win. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@Green__one]

The issue with dating advice that women give men, is that it's actually advice that women can follow not that men can follow. Start the date with a hug? Sure the girl can do that no problem almost no guy will object to that. But if a guy goes in for a hug on a girl he's just met? That's a pretty big risk! Girls can do all sorts of things like this, and it will probably turn out very well for them, in turn they think that it's great advice that they can give to men to do the same. They don't realise that men have completely different standards they must follow, or they risk having their life completely and utterly destroyed. Whereas the biggest risk to a woman is that she doesn't get a second date.

[@UnicornTears12]

On today's episode of "how to be labelled a creep..."

[@blacksheepwall79]

Tried this... Got 5-10

[@mikechilders]

Define "natural".

[@SteveWamsley-p5o]

And you are going to jail

[@DavidAVest]

But at the end of this the message is still "It's all the man's responsibility, touching too little is wrong, touching too much is wrong, no she won't explicitly let you know what right is, and no you're not allowed to ask." If women want romance, attraction and dating to be fun again, they have to start calling each other out for making dating a grueling minefield. Because in general, men are much more content without women than women are without men.

[@Joel-hr1uw]

This is a SWIFT way to a jail cell

[@051adam]

Do women follow these rules also? If so, could the professional 40+ soccer mom karens pleased be asked to NOT touch men when they're shopping in hobby lobby for art supplies/Christmas gifts for loved ones? I'd really appreciate this and will do anything in the world to keep from cringing the eff out and literally saying "don't you have a husband to toy with? I'm busy."

[@randomobserver8168]

Depends on where it is, as ever. Whether in romantic or other contexts, GenZ seems to have entered Ralph Wiggum territory, when Marge put a hand on his shoulder and he screamed she was touching his special area. I was never a huggy person, still never initiate them, but I was hugged without harm by many people in childhood and youth, and have taken some pleasure in it even as an adult with some people. Unless one has some extreme spectrum disorder about touch, or perhaps are severely immunocompromised or have painful skin disease, it's not that big a deal.

[@Bobcat665]

Generally not a good idea?

[@sunsinger970]

if you've never met someone before any touching is a crime. date or not. Something wrong with yall.

[@ziah2theworld]

people with hyperhydrosis beg to differ lmao

[@McBlazington]

90% of these comments are cooked. I am a completely socially underdeveloped moron but even I know for a first date: -When you meet, follow her lead if she wants to greet with a quick hug. If she doesn't, just put your hand on your heart for half a second and give her a compliment. "Cool shoes", "I love the flowers on that dress" or something else she picked about herself. Not something she just is or has like "You have a nice smile/rack/You look beautiful" -if you're driving, get her door. Offer your hand with your palm upwards for her to balance with getting in her seat. Do this, especially if she is wearing heels or a restrictive dress. -Offer your hand when she goes to sit or get up. (Heels and dress applies here too) -Lean in towards her when talks, give her your full attention. Smile. Make eye contact. -If her body language is open (arms not crossed, leaning toward you, smiling, giving open answers), then she is probably comfortable with you. You can do small, short, non-sexual touches. If your walking side by side, walk close. Gently bump her arm or shoulder if she makes a cheeky joke. Touch her arm or shoulder if you need to emphasise a point. If her nails are done, ask to see them and move her hand with yours. Same thing for jewellery. -if she touches you, copy that same type as she is probably comfortable with that level of contact. It's not rocket science, and as you interact with people, it's just unconscious.

[@aquabot]

it's that easy, indeed. Another tip is: touch her with the back of your hand in the beginning, it will feel less "grabby" to her.

[@jokerjosh3]

Wonderful advice!

[@protorhinocerator142]

This is simple. If you want the best advice for touching a woman on a date and have it be perfectly acceptable, Be stunningly gorgeous, have 6 pack abs, be 7 feet tall, and be a billionaire. Other than that you're a creepy octopus and she needs to call the cops.

[@ericcarterofthehillpeople]

It sounds like rules, not organic.

[@timothygavin6836]

How ‘bout, just ask?

[@OlujaDoTokija]

You will come off as insecure/inexperienced/creep and she will lose any interest in you.

[@protorhinocerator142]

If you don't touch at all, you're a creep. If you touch too much you're a creep. If you ask how much is the right amount, you're a creep. That means you have 3 realistic options: 1. You're a creep. 2. You're a creep. 3. You're a creep.

[@heythere6983]

just go for it. Its all the advice people watch the confuse them, women don't put themselves in a situation of being one on one with you if she's not okay with the chance of you putting your hand on her shoulder ,lol. This isn't a huge deal. I used to overthink because I assumed what was going on in her head, thats a waste of time, just do what you feel is okay, women are into what youre into, unless you have zero boundaries. If she pulls away then don't bother seeing her again, she's always gonna be weird. Guys are taught to overwork for women, fact is, if she's being difficult, then don't condition yourself to be climbing uphill for her. Find another person who accepts your affection.

[@protorhinocerator142]

1991 Desiree Washington met boxer Mike Tyson in his hotel room, and then later accused him of rap3. He was convicted and served time in prison. *In his hotel room.* Yes, women ABSOLUTELY put themselves in positions where they aren't comfortable, or at least claim not to be later. Things have gotten much worse for men since 1991.

[@AuratusCricetus]

#metoo

[@jameswilkerson4412]

That was mostly about in the workplace, as I understood it

[@eleethtahgra7182]

Nah. If she allows physical just on the first date.... I mean, its first date, she barely knows u....and if she allow physical, then shes out. Shes an easy woman. Get gone. Of course, speaking as D.A.D.D....

[@jamie81972]

How well does this work for germaphobes?

[@Noahcrusade99]

No first mpve. Focus on your purpose..

[@DiarraHarris]

Hahahahaha

[@samuelevander9823]

Heh, the easiest way to scope out whether she's into your touching is to start out innocent. Maybe a hug or just starting with compliments & some light touching. Slowly escalating from there as the chemistry builds up. It's easier to do bolder things when she's into you. And you know this from dating her & progressively escalating.

[@williammoses6460]

Maybe I should date men.

[@LinWatchorn]

I wouldn't blame you, It seems a whole lot easier!

[@protorhinocerator142]

As much as I hate that idea, it's looking more and more like the only option.

[@mclow094]

I dont touch them. Hell i dont let anyone lay a finger on me. I do wish i never kissed in my life though. I also wish i never dated because that would've prevented all the drama

[@Sesshoumaru888]

Oh shut up!

[@Duffman69able]

Women give the worst advice

[@protorhinocerator142]

To both men and women. Men give good advice to both men and women. I've yet to hear women give realistic, useful, actionable, effective advice to anyone. My favorite is, "Just be yourself." Honey I've been myself for decades and it ain't working. That's the most ridiculous thing you can say.