Translation And Its Troubles

In this video I'm talking about the problems that can occur when translating literature. And I struggle with Portuguese a bit. Hope you enjoy :-)
00:00 Translation is fascinating
00:52 Learning about translation
01:50 Grande Sertão: Veredas
03:55 Why you never heard about it
05:30 The title - What does it mean?
07:20 Translation history: English
09:34 German translation
10:39 French translation
11:23 Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian
12:07 My feelings
12:41 Passage in Portuguese and Bloopers
Contact: [e-mail]

[@BlindCentipede]

Speaking of untranslated books, I recommend the blog The Untranslated. They hold the reviews of some of the most complex books unavailable in english. It's ran by a 10-languages polyglot with a "useless" Comp Lit PhD. It's utterly brilliant and one of the biggest language learning inspiration for me personally.

[@strange.lucidity]

Wow this is amazing. I'm gonna pin this comment so more people can find it. Would honestly love to talk to this person.

[@mariaclaral1]

I was surprised when i've started watching the video and listened to an audio in portuguese! I'm Brazilian and this book is considered a Challenge even in our country, but It is definetely an unique work of art! Very interesting way to talk about the troubles of translation!

[@cizaum1]

Olha só. Um livro brasileiro aqui. Que orgulho. Vários livros brasileiros considerados clássicos são bem difíceis pros próprios brasileiros entenderem. Realmente não sei como alguém fora do brasil conseguiria traduzir palavras e dialetos só utilizados em regiões especificas e por pessoas mais velhas. Pessoas que viveram a vida toda trabalhando no sertão e que não tiveram nenhum tipo de estudo. A língua portuguesa muda muito. Livros escritos a 30,40 anos atrás já utilizam palavras que caíram em desuso ou que não utilizam mais a mesma acentuação, graças as mudanças do acordo ortográfico, quem dirá um livro de 1956. Parabéns pelo vídeo e por espalhar a cultura do meu país.

[@jps89pt]

Itamar Vieira Junior é um exemplo de um escritor contemporâneo que escreve desse jeito e sobre esses tópicos. Não será o único, mas não conheço outro.

[@mullerss1]

Guimarães Rosa here! :O. you know, he used to be diplomatic, and he was educated in German language big time. In my opinion, after Machado de Asis he was the greatest brazilian writer of all times.

[@peterbenson123]

The great Brazilian film director Glauber Rocha made a number of extraordinary films set in the Sertao. See 'Black God, White Devil' if you can, for a sense of the landscape, poverty, & mythology of the region. A classic of world cinema.

[@strange.lucidity]

thanks!!

[@radiantchristina]

Great video ! My favorite types of booktubes are folks like yourself that do more than just book hauls and reviews. I love all the thoughtful content you put out there. I enjoy an occasional book haul and and always enjoy reviews but the content in this video is the sort of content I want more of on booktube. I found the book on amazon but it is over 600 dollars! I think i'll pass unless it gets reprinted. I am an American with Portuguese roots and you did a wonderful job with pronunciation. Translation is always a topic that has interested me and the majority of my reading is translated books. Thank you for your insights. A good translator can make all the difference in the world. One of my favorite books is Anna Karenina. I have 5 editions of the book, all by different translators and their styles do change the experience. I actually like all of the translations but each for different reasons. I tried to read The Magic Mountain last year and again this year, but I ended up giving my edition away because I just could not get into it. Now, thinking back, it may have been the translation. I don't remember who translated the edition I had. Is there a translation that you recommend? I am currently re-reading Les Misérables. I have two editions of that - one is a giant paperback and the other a slightly less giant mass market paperback that is portable and i can take around with me and there are parts of if that it is almost like reading 2 different books. Loved the end part of the video read in Portuguese. My Portuguese is VERY rusty since it's been 15 years since i've been around Portuguese speaking family and had the opportunity to speak the language, but I still enjoyed hearing the language spoken.

[@strange.lucidity]

Thank you for taking time to write this comment, I love hearing other peoples experiences with big, difficult books. And thanks for the kind words in the beginning. Comments like these really keep me going 🥲

[@angelikicoletsou4463]

Hello from a translator! Thank you for this video! Never heard of the book before😮 thank you for sharing

[@lufsss_]

Caraca! Que felicidade ouvir alguém falando com tanto carinho sobre um livro brasileiro! Adorei

[@sandrademetz7621]

I’m going to add Portuguese to my list too! I like how it sounds!

[@vigdragon]

This reminds me when I was trying to share one of the greatest poets of my country to a friend of mine who is into poetry. As she doesn't speak Georgian, I was desperately trying to find an at least decent translation, just so she could get a taste of it, but this exercise proved to be beyond frustrating! Translating poetry is of course especially difficult. Then I realized what a shame it was that the absolute majority of the worlds population would be deprived of the chance to experience Vazha Pshavela (the poet I wanted to share). Georgian is spoken by almost exclusively natives. Georgian being a small language with even smaller languages related to it, not even being part of the bigger Indo-European language family and having not much global influence or reach - there are no incentives for foreigners to learn (provided they have even heard of it). But I think it is worth learning, even if it was just for the opportunity to experience Georgian poetry and especially Vazha! That and Georgian polyphonic singing of course, but music transcends spoken languages - thankfully at least that! : D edit: wording.

[@readreadofficial]

This was a really awesome video! I'd loved to hear more on translation as through your studies. Even though I only really speak English (and so don't have any hands-on experience with translation), one unique area of this that's interested me for a while is authors who either: 1) Translated their own works (Beckett from French-English, Nabokov from Russian-English [Or the reverse with 'Lolita'], and so on). 2) Already speak the new language with some degree of fluency, and work closely with their translator (Borges with Andrew Hurley, and Joyce overseeing the French translation of 'Ulysses') I'd love to know if you've explored this area of translation, and would be keen to hear your thoughts.

[@elleclassics]

i just loved that you used his carioca accent! in another accent would it be different the pronunciation. love it!

[@strange.lucidity]

Thank you so much ❤ I just checked out your channel. Unfortunately I didn't understand anything but your videos are so cozy. I love it!

[@DrGBhas]

Great thoughts and insights here. Translation is indeed a great art, but it is invisible. Thankyou for creating such luminous videos , amidst your hectic schedule. 🙏

[@nielzene9656]

As someone who fluently speaks 5 languages, I'm so happy I have access to original texts! That said, the topic of (literary) translation has always interested me. Happy I stumbled upon your channel! I've subscribed :)

[@strange.lucidity]

Amazing and welcome 🙏🏻

[@tabatha82]

Lovely video! I’ve been thinking about translations a lot lately; I’m also reading The Magic Mountain and there is a section (a couple of pages) that depict a conversation between Hans and Clavdia entirely in French, and my book provided no translation for it 😢. I had to go online and find a forum where a kind soul added a translation to English for free; I understand why smaller bits are not translated, and the importance to do justice to this special conversation that doesn’t happen in German, but it was super irritating to land there all the same. I’m also looking for a translation to Goethe’s Faust and found many interesting conversations about translations online! Mostly between those that prefer a more literal translation, and those that prefer the text to maintain its lyrical qualities even if it doesn’t adhere 100% to the original material. It would be great if you made a future video about translation differences as you see them in your studies :)

[@strange.lucidity]

Haha I totally understand the frustration with French in the middle of the book. It's super lovely when you speak the language and super frustrating when you don't. My German edition provided a translation in the Appendix which is only fair imo. Thanks for your comment and yes, I'd love to make more videos on this. The topic is fascinating 🙏🏻

[@andreshombriamate745]

In my humble opinion , "Grande Sertão:Veredas" is one of the true masterpieces of the past century. In a certain way, ití s like a , seemingly impossible, fusion of Stevenson and Joyce. (so convoluted as the second one, but so entertaining as the first). I bought it and tried to read it in the original, but after reading two pages concluded that my level (B2) of the language was not going to be sufficient and acquired the Spanish translation by Ángel Crespo ( that was praised by the author in a most polite way saying that "he had bettered the original"). This is not the translation that you showed but a previous one and I think that the appraisal of Guimarães is perhaps hyperbolic, but fully justified. Diadorim is the only main female character...but we discover her true sex in the last 20 pages of the text. In that sense the French title is not so inconvenient, because the doubt of Riobaldo about the reality of his devil pact is, in a certain way, mirrored by the ambiguous erotic attraction he feels for Diadorim, that he (and everyone) considered a man, and these two ambiguities are the two pillars of the story. In fact, as Riobaldo is telling the story in retrospect, is not so daring for him to be (more or less) sincere about both subjects. If you want to have an idea of how the sertão looks like, many films of the "cinema novo" take place there. I strongly recommend you the Glauber Rocha´s films "Deus e o Diabo na terra do sol" (Black God, White Devil)(1964) and "O Dragão da maldade contra o Santo Guerreiro" (António das Mortes) (1969). Excuse me for a so garrulous commentary, but it is the first time I see in KZbin someone mentioning this extraordinary novel.

[@strange.lucidity]

Thanks for sharing. Amazing to see so many people loving this book. I hope to be in a position one day to read it. It seems right up my ally.

[@mmclaug907]

Fantastic video. Translation to me emphasizes to me above all else, that we cannot truly ever fully understand one another; that literature is art; and language/words are only a part of that. Take the distance of a handful of different experiences that could exist between myself and understanding Grande Sertao: Veradas (and my failure to have a key with one of the characters as part of that): 1. Language 2. Time 3. Culture 4. Geography 5. Person 6. Sex 7. Gender 8. Religion 9. Nationality 10. Class 11. Sexuality 12. Lived Experience between myself and the author Heaven help the souls who have attempted to translate Finnegans Wake. Translators have to make difficult choices but each choice mutates the original work. How easy to be a painter or instrumental musician - it is what it is. Have you heard music where the lyrics are translated into a foreign language? They sound so offensively stale in comparison. Your example about penetrating different markets to me highlights the importance of renown and being involved in the larger literary community (or else risk falling into obscurity). In short - Translators are underrated and necessary. My favourite living author is Mircea Cărtărescu, yet I don't plan on learning Romanian. Thank God for Translators.

[@strange.lucidity]

Much agreed 🙏🏻 funny enough, I just had a course at uni talking about translating Finnegans Wake to German. All is lost already in the first sentence. So interesting.

[@mmclaug907]

@@strange.lucidity Even in English it's all lost. I found it to be worth the last 10 pages alone

[@anasofiadarocha-paris2798]

Hello Maria, I'm a Portuguese and I have been following your work. I see your videos every Sunday 😊 I'm so happy to see your interest in my language, beautiful language with so many great writers ❤

[@jps89pt]

Ana Sofia, imagina quando ela chegar a nomes como A. Lobo Antunes, Agustina ou mesmo Mia Couto e Machado de Assis.

[@anasofiadarocha-paris2798]

@@jps89pt Sim, esperemos que chegue lá 😃

[@jps89pt]

@@anasofiadarocha-paris2798 enquanto estudante de literatura, pode bem ler algum Lobo Antunes ou Agustina. 😉

[@strange.lucidity]

Oh how happy I am to read this! ❤ Sending a hug!

[@madshoisgaard]

Beautiful episode!

[@buchdeckel1543]

I translate my German with Google to write here. And the number of words in English is much lower. 20% is a good estimate. What you said about the romantic nature of the French was funny because that was the first thing I thought of too. Your topics are so interesting that I try hard to understand your videos.

[@reaganwiles_art]

Very nice. I've never heard of this author. As an early reader, decades back, I read many things in translation w/o thinking how they differed from the originals. I had assumed that all translators were fluent speakers and readers of their subject languages. That is not true. I now read translations almost as original works; I must assume that the author is lost, especially in poetry of course which is one of my preferred forms. I don't allow myself to think I've actually read Dante merely because I've read Inferno in translation. Same goes for Goethe or Cavafy or St.-Jean Perse, etc....

[@Ukucrazy]

Great video, I really enjoy your channel. Australian translator Alison Entrekin has been working on an english version of Grande Sertão: Veredas for almost a decade. According to her website it should be coming out this year or next. It's also pretty easy to find an epub or pdf of the first english translation online if you know where to look.

[@user-hm9il3qe4j]

Alison Entrekin has also given interviews and written about the difficulties of translating this work.

[@jps89pt]

Wow! A decade!

[@user-hm9il3qe4j]

Her LinkedIn account says she has been working on it since 2018.@@jps89pt

[@motoole3200]

😊Thanks. Translation, interpretation, intent, and the emotions of a word, sentence, paragraphs. especally in poetry, hynms, songs, etc Amasing grace, how sweet the sound, i onece was lost, but, now i am found ... N transaltion there is often a culture and enviornment difference to be taught. Oh! and a communication problems of the awarness of History, Culture, and Economy, How do you update a generation especially people living in an urban situation and area that farming is about the land and seasons of seed time and harvests. Another point, it only in the last 500 years are so, that language was written down, with the invention of the printing press. Before that the words was spoken, in song, poetry, in harmony of sounds, tones, prayers, spells, curses, blessings, in 🐦 songs at morning and stars sign at night. Language was spoken and heard not read.

[@leof2497]

Brazilian literature finally!!! There are many words and terms that are very specific to each people and each culture. Translating books must be something very complex.

[@franciscoleopoldoesilva2433]

Translating the subtitle of the work is a herculean task per se: "O diabo na rua, no meio do redemoinho (The devil in the street, in the middle of the whirlwind), whereas the Portuguese word for whirlwind, "redemoinho", contains in the middle of it the world "demo", short from "demônio" or "demon" in English. José Guimarães Rosa, a Brazilian diplomat that served in Berlin and was fluent in German, incorporated elements of the German Faust tradition in his work.There are a few brazilian studies that point intertextual dialogues between "Grande Sertão Veredas" and "Doktor Faustus" from Thomas Mann.

[@strange.lucidity]

Thanks for sharing that. Such a lovely detail. I didn't know that 🙏🏻

[@1russodog]

Ty Maria for your keen review. This book has been on my list forever. Hopefully it can be respectfully translated soon

[@nieliryczne7974]

Never heard about this book before, but now i neeeed to read it. It is translated into Polish as 'Wielkie pustkowie' which i guess would be "The Great Wasteland' in English

[@pufipum]

There's a joke about german needing more words to say something than other languages; and that is how Twitter didn't succeed so much as in other countries because was almost impossible to say something with 140 characters.

[@Itsallinyourheadmhm]

Great topic! As a non-native English speaker I am always fascinated by translations as well. Umberto Eco has some very interesting writings on that topic btw

[@TheGracchi-pl3op]

I'm currently reading several different translations of The Iliad. I try alternating between chapters but often end up rereading whole sections being so fascinated (or confused) by some translator's choices. (Fagles/Wilson/Lombardo/Rieu/Rouse)

[@michaelm7823]

I was so happy to see a video from you when I signed on today! Thank you for coming up with yet another way to illuminate. I hope your semester is going well! I am so happy you do this, but I honestly don't know how you have time! Translation is often discussed in Proust circles, as you of course know. Do you have thoughts on C. K. Scott Moncrieff translation? Or thoughts about that translation compared to the Penguin translation that came out in the last 20 years or so?

[@strange.lucidity]

Hey, thanks once again for your lovely comment ☺My semester is going well. I feel as though I've finally found a rhythm and pace that works for me (and my professors expectations 😅) I honestly don't know too much about Proust translations as I'm mostly interested in getting my hands on the original. But Benjamin McEvoy recommends the Moncrieff one and I trust his judgment. I find the Lydia Davis one I have beautiful and very readable. But again, I haven't closely compared translations yet...

[@michaelm7823]

@@strange.lucidity I completely forgot you speak French! My apologies. You can read the original. Oh that must be glorious.

[@skaus2184]

7:54 It's on Annas Archive.

[@MatW1lson]

I've noticed this with German translations, myself; they are about 20% longer. The opposite is so with Latin. If you compare literature written in Latin to its translations in French and English, the French and English versions are 20-25% longer than an original Latin text.

[@strange.lucidity]

Fascinating!

[@gavinaustin4474]

Not really surprising when you consider that, to some extent, Latin uses inflection (e.g., case-marking on nouns) to perform certain functions which are performed by independent words in English and French. Plus Latin has no definite or indefinite articles.

[@MatW1lson]

Yes, it makes sense why when you know how Latin works. But when you put them side-by-side and see the English on the right and the Latin on the left, it's just indeed fascinating. I find the Latin to be easier on the eyes. However, most Slavic languages are also synthetic languages but they have longer words than Latin words.

[@gavinaustin4474]

@@MatW1lson Agree, Mat. It is indeed interesting. Another contributory factor might be the idiosyncratic and inefficient spelling system in English - so many 'unnecessary' letters on the page, in comparison with the sounds themselves (e.g., 'through').

[@MatW1lson]

@@gavinaustin4474 Sorry for the late reply. Modern English spelling is so strange. Likewise French is weird too. But there were many English dialects that did have very reasonable spellings -- i.e. they were phonetic. Latin writing is phonetic and so is German. In modern English, you can't even spell phonetic fonetically. ;)

[@chrononautspodcast]

Great, video, the amateur translations I've done from Russian to English also expand by about 30%

[@user-hm9il3qe4j]

John Florio's florid and innovative translation of Montaigne's Essays not only enriched English but inspired many other writers, Shakespeare for example.

[@jps89pt]

What about Marianne Fritz? Do you think there's a good english translation of her works? Die Schwerkraft der Verhaltnisse for example..

[@aquariuslibrarian]

One of my favourite novels is 'Berlin Alexanderplatz' by Alfred Döblin. The big appeal of it (to me) is that it is mostly written in the 1920s berlin dialect, which is impossible to replicate in another language. It has been translated to english though. I'm interested to know how the translator worked that out.

[@buchdeckel1543]

First of all, I speak English so poorly that I translate everything I write here with Google. I have lived in Berlin for over 50 years and I read Berlin Alexanderplatz in German and after 100 pages I started to imitate the Berlin dialect. I can't even imagine that it's even possible to translate dialects into other languages. From my experience I can only say that the Berlin dialect is very strongly linked to the way Berliners live (as is probably the case with every dialect). Apart from that, decades ago I once heard someone speaking in the Berlin dialect and I didn't understand a thing. There are still gradations. A fascinating topic.

[@aquariuslibrarian]

@@buchdeckel1543 actually when i read Berlin Alexanderplatz i started speaking in dialect sometimes (involuntarily, haha), even though i've only been to Berlin a couple of times. Something comparable would probably be The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck, it's also mostly written in the Oklahoma/Southern dialect. Very interesting topic indeed.

[@alohm]

There is a joke that if French books removed the silent letters, a 500 page book would be 300 pages. In translation it is hard. In Sanskrit there is many times we use the words without translation. Metta in Pali or Maitri in Sanskrit is translated with a word that was invented to translated a Hebrew word meaning a love that transcends all love - Loving-Kindness. Or in German, Nietzsche is hard to translate, but he also says three things in one sentence, sound like, similar to, means another.. He also uses words in special ways - changing their meanings to fit. HinterWelten or Shatzen. Balzac is also hard since so much is lost in English. I prefer to read many versions of a translated work, and try to read the original where possible.

[@szabionody9256]

kiki smith...the art is only by-product of artist sexuality..the theme is the best place at you daughter