Trent Horn Gets Interrogated by Michael Lofton (St. Basil Byzantine Catholic Church)

[@bryanmulkey7141]

03:10 - 1. What are your thoughts on the recent suspension of Nancy Pelosi from Holy Communion and should those who support the death penalty receive the same treatment? 15:23 - 2. You occasionally attend a Byzantine rite liturgy. What drew you to the Byzantine rite? How does it compare to the Roman Rite? 21:07 - 3. How did you start out in apologetics and what are some tips you have for others who would like to become apologists? 29:47 - 4. You recently had a debate on the Old Testament canon (w/ JonathanSheffield). What are some of your post-debate thoughts? 37:01 - 5. What is the biggest reason you aren't Protestant (iow what is the strongest argument against it?) 44:50 - 6. What is the biggest reason you aren't Eastern Orthodox? 50:55 - 7. What is your strongest argument against Atheism? 56:45 - 8. What do you make of the benevacantist movement? Do you think it is a dangerous movement? 1:03:36 - 9. Dom Alcuin Reid, a traditionalist monk, was recently suspended for being illicitly ordained according to the extraordinary form. Some are hailing his illicit ordination as a just act of resisting overly oppressive church leaders while others see it as dividing the body of Christ. Do you have any thoughts here? 1:11:31 - 10. You have spent a lot of time with Cameron Bertuzzi from Capturing Christianity. Do you think Cameron Bertuzzi will become Catholic? 1:21:38 - Start Q & A.

[@Bowditch200]

Wahoo thanks

[@englishteacherpete1]

Y

[@jattebaleyos116]

Man, this interrogation feels like an apologetics workout. Thank your Mr. Lofton and Mr. Horn I learn a lot and my brain just grew a muscle

[@joshuasartor4943]

I go to Holy Angels Byzantine church and used to see Trent there, but only for a few times before he left for texas. I remember his second youngest son giving me a death stare periodically through the whole liturgy. He was a funny kid

[@andrewagius7989]

The "dynamic duo" Michael and Trent! Love this channel.

[@bubbawhisk8243]

Great interview with great points from Mr Horn. Super level headed answers. A bit refreshing for me. Would love to meet the Clergy from this Parrish. Looks like a great place to worship. Christ is risen! He is risen indeed!

[@shlamallama6433]

This was so much fun! I learned a lot, thank you!

[@wessbess]

Great discussion guys. From your born-again evangelical friend.

[@stuksy4321]

You guys are a good team, bringing your different personalities and temperaments together in a very congenial way and tackling difficult questions.

[@somebody4061]

I went to my first Divine Liturgy at St. Basil for the Vigil of the Ascension! It was great!

[@reasonandtheology]

Wonderful!

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

I also attended my first Divine Liturgy there

[@ceceroxy2227]

I consider Trent almost like the heir apparent to William Lane Craig. super educated and intelligent, super thoughtful, and always prepared in debates for any argument

[@evolvingerinb]

Half ways in and I find this AMAZING! This video answers so many of my questions. God bless you both!!

[@jamestrotter3162]

Any Catholic politician who supports any lgbtq+ issues should also be barred from receiving holy communion.

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

And abortion. Don’t leave that out

[@hervedavidh4117]

1:07:33 It is a good impersonation of The Dark Knight trilogy batman voice! LOL ! And what Trent said is what Alfred told Bruce in the Dark knight rises: invest more in social program would be better than be a vigilante! 😁

[@LeDoux1724]

Byzantine Deacons can & do distribute the Eucharist. It's done if there's a Second Chalice, during Typika, or bring communion to someone's home.

[@steveblamo9352]

Hi Trent. I have a sincere question. I am a protestant and I believe that faith alone in the finished work of Jesus is what saves me. I really struggle to reconcile a faith plus works belief. If one believes that good works and the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross are both necessary to enter heaven, how would that person answer this? He/she is Standing before God and God asks: What makes you qualified to be my child in my holy, perfect presence in heaven for eternity? Would’t the person’s response have to include Jesus died for me and I did good works(communion every Sunday, confessed my sins to a priest regularly, gave to charity, volunteering etc..) I know we wouldn’t word it like this, but isn’t the response essentially saying: Lord Jesus, you are necessary for salvation but not sufficient? Jesus was able to get me most of the way there and my works got me the rest of the way. I don’t know how this could be explained in a way that doesn’t include at least a little bit of pride or God being indebted to us for our works. The wages of sin is death, not good works. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. Not without the shedding of blood and good works there is no forgiveness of sin. I am not a philosopher nor am I a theologian. I am just an average person looking for the truth.

[@reasonandtheology]

Watch my answering protestantism playlist. I go over justification nearly every video. We don't believe in faith plus works as you understand it.

[@steveblamo9352]

I appreciate your reply advising me to watch your other videos related to justification in the Protestant playlist. I’ve watched a few of them and have a better understanding of how the Catholic position of justification is held. You mention that a thorough knowledge of church history is necessary in order to establish why the Catholic position of justification is correct byway of the early church fathers’ teachings. It will be quite a while and undertaking to get a good understanding of church history under my belt. In the responses I did watch, It seems like there are clips where an added spin on words is used to make a case for faith plus works. I admit I have many more of videos on your playlist to absorb, contemplate, and verify. Thank you for making your convictions publicly known.

[@catholiccrusaderdeusvult9949]

Great interview, God bless you gentlemen.. I can't believe Trent leans towards the Partim Partim view, that's my belief and it's so rare, it's always nice to find out there's someone else out there that believes it or leans towards it as well

[@reasonandtheology]

I just see zero evidence for holding partum partum. There are literally zero primary objects of infallibility that aren't in scripture. Also it is not the historical view of the church.

[@masterchief8179]

@@reasonandtheology ​ Michael, I personally agree with you that there are (or there will be) zero magisterial proclamation of the church that is not going to be seen inside Scriptures. But to say “revelation is seen part in Scripture, part in Tradition” is just as correct as to say “revelation is seen in Scripture and Tradition”. Whenever necessary to be practical, both are explained and applied by the living Magisterium of the Church. I honestly think this shouldn’t be an issue. Protestants (bad) apologists are the ones using this simple and basic divergence of theological opinions on the issue of “sufficiency” as if the Council of Trent (partem/ partem: “part in/ part in”) and Vatican II (et/ “and”) taught different things. And they do it in a spirit of bad faith or under ignorance, so as to deny the very idea of a perpetual continuity and coherence inside the magisterium, as Luther himself did when he decided to abandon the Church and refuse its authority. That’s where and why they are pressing Catholics, so we need to be alert. The essential is to affirm it’s 100% incorrect to say there are TWO deposits of the faith. Just dialoguing with Yajun Yajun on this channel one can see how Protestants can conveniently use this for their anti-Catholic benefit. He explicitly said that “partem/partem” meant there are two deposits of the faith. So I guess we must all assert that the phraseology of “depositum fidei” is never registered in the history of the Catholic Church by the usage of a plural form. “Depositum” is singular. For me that’s the key point. Never it’s overseen as a plurality or understood as such. Both Ecumenical Councils of Trent and the Vatican II affirm there is no hierarchy between those two sources and both refer explicitly to the oneness of the deposit of the faith. But how to explain that oneness’s realization is the question. So the real discussion is: does the Catholic Church believe Scriptures are materially sufficient as far as the doctrines of faith and morals go? Are those doctrines at least indirectly inside canonical texts, meaning they are deductible from the written way of transmissibility of Revelation? (in my humble opinion answering ‘yes’ to the second does not mean necessarily answer ‘yes’ to the first). The Catholic Church never formally defined responses to those questions. Therefore ALL discussion is open at the level of “theolegoumena” (theological discussions). But let’s understand them. Both “part in/ part in” vs “and” terminologies are correct since (or precisely because) they don’t imply different responses for the questions above. Both formulas refer to the one single “depositum fidei” and that’s beyond question. But those seeking to respond it may use arguments coming from a relative independence of sources or for an absolute independence of sources; they can say Scripture can have all doctrines materially or not. But the whole discussion is more or less ethereal for Catholics, making sense only if we are in ecumenical dialogues with our Protestants brothers. For myself, I think the lack of hierarchical relation between Scripture and Tradition (as defined) points to the correct answer: the lack of material sufficiency of any of the two sources in themselves (otherwise there would be a kind of hierarchy inside the oneness of the “depositum fidei”). Either way, in my own “theolegoumenon” - theological opinion - those who defend Scriptures are materially sufficient conflate the usage of Scripture as the primary source of theology, as St Thomas Aquinas says it, with material sufficiency, whenever they retrospectively try to explain the dogmas of the faith using Sacred Scriptures. It is obvious that Scripture is the primary source for “Sacrae Teologiae” but that doesn’t mean any hierarchy between the two sources of transmissibility of revelation (it’s only a matter of theological methodology). So in this line of argument the primary role of Scripture in sacred theology is the reason why we don’t (and won’t) see any dogma and doctrine of faith and morals not backed up by Sacred Scriptures. Still it’s theoretically perfectly fine to defend material sufficiency if one makes a secure formulation that departs from any hierarchy (formal and material) between Scripture and Tradition, the way I see it, even if inspiration of texts is necessarily seen only in Scriptures. My two cents here. God bless this precious channel!

[@josephlongazelle1271]

This is my home parish and have attended Liturgy there since the early 90's. Being a life long Byzantine Catholic I appreciate all the iconography which in some parishes whether they be either a Byzantine Catholic or Roman Catholic has been lost or just very sterile in appearance....

[@keatdawgz]

Michael your mic is always so quiet. Please turn it up!

[@michaelberry9438]

This was my home church until recently when I moved to Indiana. Such a beautiful church and church family. My wife and I definitely miss it and all of the wonderful families there. If anyone gets a chance definitely attend a divine liturgy there. They have a Ruthenian liturgy early Sunday morning and Melkite liturgy in the late morning.

[@rifenmazer]

I think Gospel Simplicity guy name is Austin, not Alex 😄

[@agihernandez7846]

That is a beautiful parish. Never been for service only to prayer but would love to participate in that liturgy

[@xXXDeadlyHavocXXx]

Excellent interview! Michael I was wondering if you could get John Salza on as he has (relatively) recently changed his view on the SSPX and now sees them as illegitimate and opposed to Catholic Ecclesiology but still holds on to a nuanced view of "Recognise and Resist"position; it would be great to see his position and have it critically analysed. Many thanks.

[@GratiaPrima_]

Hey Trent, if you’re looking for a reverent Novus Ordo in DFW I love my Parrish St. Maria Goretti. It’s by UTA in Arlington. Not the cringy style, I promise. Byzantine sounds awesome, though. I’ll have to check it out!!

[@GratiaPrima_]

And welcome to Texas!! 🤗

[@popemon7608]

Hey, I'm at Saint Mary the Virgin just up the road. Maria Goretti is a lovely parish. Love that area of Arlington in general; lots of family connections

[@GratiaPrima_]

@@popemon7608 well hey, neighbor!

[@henrymalinowski5125]

Not to dox Horn (he's already said where he lives roughly on a podcast), but I think he's close to St. Elizabeth Ann Seaton, which is quite reverent in my experience.

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

Ayy that’s my parish. I’m so sad the tors are leaving 😢

[@RealAtheology]

What a fantastic interview. Always great to see Trent. Thank you for bringing him on. Would also love to see a similar interrogation with an Atheist philosopher of religion.

[@mariemorrison6278]

Wouldn't Alcuin Reid need to pledge obedience to his bishop in the actual ordination ceremony? How did they get around that?

[@lonedesertfox]

This was great! Thank you both! If you don’t mind what videos of yours would help my 16 year old learn more of the Eastern Catholic traditions?

[@reasonandtheology]

I do have an eastern catholic playlist.

[@lonedesertfox]

@@reasonandtheology thank you!

[@filip_wilson]

what camera do you use for your videos?

[@mabanomet9879]

Does any has a link to the church fathers we should read?

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

For the Byzantine church? If so I’d recommend st. Basil the great and St. John chrysostom

[@josephology3290]

What about Saint Joseph: Virgin (as Popes say in West and Scripture implies) OR Non-virgin Joseph (as Psuedo Gospel of James says in the East)?

[@solvictis]

Lmfao i saw the original title and you make the joke about the new one, coming back to it midwatch to see it had changed gave me a chuckle, interrogation indeed

[@paolofresnoza4261]

worth my limited time here on earth!!!!! ⚡❤

[@ChristianSigma]

Cross examination in a church. What a combination!

[@toddgruber5729]

FYI, Michael it was a lot easier to hear Trent. You seemed far from the mic so it was much quieter when you talked.

[@warrenrosen132]

So I assume Francis is willing to pay the room and board for a life sentence?

[@charliefrostcharlie]

Please do something about the volume

[@wessbess]

Gentlemen you’re both standup guys. Highly intelligent highly intellectual. You do have good arguments. You’re arguing for authority for Catholicism. Tell me if you think the current Catholic hierarchy is a good example of Christian faith? From the pope on down.

[@reasonandtheology]

And if they aren't, it wouldn't take away from the Catholic claims.

[@nicholasolsen4634]

irrelevant to the claims of Catholicism

[@chiamtateng1973]

please explain to me Why death penalty is a great evil. does not the death penalty was carried out in the Old Testaments?

[@reasonandtheology]

Nobody is claiming it is intrinsically evil.

[@reasonandtheology]

@@yajunyuan7665 no

[@bethanyann1060]

@@yajunyuan7665 In order for it to be intrinsically evil, it would have to be evil in all circumstances.

[@bethanyann1060]

@@yajunyuan7665 Yes MURDER is intrinsically evil, since it is defined as UNJUSTLY taking someone’s life, no matter how old they are. The death penalty is not the same as murder.

[@bethanyann1060]

@@yajunyuan7665 No, justly is not subjective. People can pretend it is, just like they can pretend abortion isn’t murder, but that doesn’t make it just.

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

This was the place I first experienced the Divine Liturgy. I went to the Melkite liturgy tho

[@joeboterf2523]

Great job on the weight loss Trent!

[@jonathanbohl]

Thanks!

[@StayFaithful13]

I love Trent but he has a bad habit of interrupting people mid sentence.

[@williambrewer]

Got a lot of respect for Trent Horn, but I wish you would put more emphasis on scriptures and not tradition.

[@Mkvine]

Interrogated?? Hmm, I suppose you can put it that way…

[@sdboyd]

Two rock stars right there.

[@williambrewer]

46:10 Jesus Christ is the lynch pin.

[@julio7656]

Trent's argument against atheism using the inherent dignity of the human purpose is a presuppositional/transcendental argument. Ironic.

[@reasonandtheology]

Not exactly, as you can arrive at that dignity through reasoning without ultimately presupposing it.

[@julio7656]

@@reasonandtheology it sounded like Trent was presupposing God, the bestower of inherent dignity, as to why abortion is inherently so awful. If he's not presupposing God then he's just right back to having to "prove" God's existence through cosmological arguments and all that.

[@reasonandtheology]

@@julio7656 Is presupposing something at the moment for the sake of brevity, though it does not have to ultimately be presupposed, doing presuppositional apologetics? I don't think they are the same thing.

[@reasonandtheology]

Is he presupposing him for the sake of brevity or ultimately presupposing him? Seems the latter is presup apologetics not the former.

[@julio7656]

@@reasonandtheology he said, human beings have value because the ultimate source of value values them. Which is true; it is the only possible source of universal objective value. So as Trent explores his moral argument for his new book, he will be inevitably brought to Catholic presuppositionalism. That being said, he probably shouldn't burn bridges by saying presupp is circular and bad and all that stuff. It'd be worthwhile to hear a talk between Jeremiah and Trent just hashing out their thoughts on this.

[@wessbess]

My question is again Pope Francis has made statements That are unscriptural. He has gone against the historic Christian faith how can you still obey someone who is not true to the Christian faith?

[@reasonandtheology]

I don't accept your claim about Francis.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

Which one of the Apostles was a leftist?

[@catholicchad2254]

Judas Iscariot

[@augustinekuo5354]

Before St. Paul converted, he saw them all.

[@chiamtateng1973]

Please explain why is the church exercising authority over an elected servant of the state? should we follow the Lord decision of what belong to the state, belong to the state, but what belong to the church are of the Church? does not the elected servant of the state be given the freedom to choose to serve God or their own interest? the Church was not elected by the people. not all the people in an area are all Catholic. why then is the Church overstep herself over the rights of the unsaved? has our Lord teaches in the new and Old Testaments that the religion of the Lord in Old and New Testaments to exercise authority over the secular or an unbeliever's state?

[@clarissa7428]

The Church always has authority over her members, regardless of their profession. Pelosi (like all of us) always has the freedom to choose to serve God or not.

[@chiamtateng1973]

@@clarissa7428 but her freedom has been threaten by the discussion here. our freewill had been given to us by God the church was not establish to govern a community. the state are appointed by God to govern. whatever the disagreement is the Church are not to overrule the state by force.

[@RestingJudge]

@@chiamtateng1973 Pelosi is under the authority of her Bishop in terms of her Catholic Faith. Her freedom hasn't been threatened at all, she was warned and now she is reaping what she has sown.

[@reasonandtheology]

You do realize Pelosi is a Catholic right? Are you under the impression the bishops do not have authority over the laity in their diocese?

[@reasonandtheology]

@@yajunyuan7665 the other bishops are supposed to respect the decision of the bishop and back it up in their own diocese.