Trinitarians vs. Unitarians debate (1/2)

[@jordanbelcher3353]

james white vs Dr brown is always a good debate to watch but watching Dr brown and james white on the same side is like watching the avengers come together lol.

[@Apostolicfaith238]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” - Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) “Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.” - Isaiah 12:2 (KJV) “And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.” - Isaiah 25:9 (KJV) Isaiah 43 (KJV) ¹⁰ Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ¹¹ I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Isaiah 45 (KJV) ²¹ Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. ²² Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. “For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.” - Isaiah 54:5 (KJV) Psalms 22 (KJV) ¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. ¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. ¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” - Zechariah 12:10 (KJV) “And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.” - Isaiah 59:16 (KJV) “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” - Micah 5:2 (KJV) “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,” - Luke 1:68 (KJV) John 1 (KJV) ¹ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ¹⁴ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “I and my Father are one.” - John 10:30 (KJV) “And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” - John 12:45 (KJV) John 14 (KJV) ⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ⁷ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. ⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” - John 8:58 (KJV) “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” - 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV) “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” - 2 Corinthians 4:6 (KJV) “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” - 2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV) Colossians 1 (KJV) ¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: ¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” - Hebrews 1:3 (KJV) “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” - Colossians 2:9 (KJV) “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” - 1 John 3:16 (KJV) “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” - Acts 20:28 (KJV) “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” - 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” - Matthew 28:19 (KJV) “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” - Luke 24:47 (KJV) “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” - Acts 2:38 (KJV) “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” - Acts 4:12 (KJV) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” - Acts 8:12 (KJV) “(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)” - Acts 8:16 (KJV) “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” - Acts 10:48 (KJV) “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” - Acts 19:5 (KJV) “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” - Acts 22:16 (KJV) “I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” - Isaiah 45:23 (KJV) “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” - Romans 14:11 (KJV) Philippians 2 (KJV) ¹⁰ That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; ¹¹ And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[@InvestigadorTJ]

xD

[@Basscraft21]

Not even lol, it’s like watching “double dragon” (nes)

[@katherinepoindexter4380]

I love it.. Dr. James White asTony Stark Dr. Michael Brown as Captain America Priceless..

[@brockgeorge777]

The important point there is you can differ *sharply* on more peripheral issues, but Christians will agree on *central* doctrines touching the heart of the Gospel itself.

[@EXW3]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1... the word and God are described as distinct separate persons and yet both Identified as God.....

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

Eric Velez , Am I the only one whom can understand grammatical english???? The text says the Word *was* God, past tense. To prove your point I would need to read the Word is God.

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

I read the scriptures provided and I don't see your point, The God mentioned is clearlythe Father, the scriptures you presented are talking about two separate beings one God the father and the other the Son of God read carefully . Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2 Peter 1:1-2 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. Here in Revelation 1:6 it says that Jesus has a God and Father what is your point?

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

REVELATION 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to *his God and Father*, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. IT SAID HIS GOD AND FATHER, CHRIST HAS A GOD AND A FATHER. I did ADDRESS John 1:1, It says the Word *was* God.

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

*****​ , I was using voice command but thankyou for pointing that out, I am busy so I apologize for the short responses, I will elaborate more later....So in the KJV it says "God and His Father". Even though pretty much every other bible version says "His God and Father", all of those are all wrong?...I will go with the KJV then just for you brother. Rev.1:6 in The KJV is stating God has a Father.Revelation 1:6 (KJV) And hath made us kings and priests unto *God and his Father*; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. SO CLEARLY THIS TEXT IS SAYING *GOD HAS A FATHER*....RIGHT???

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

***** , I have read the information you have provided carefully, it has taken me almost four days. Now concerning 1 Jn.5:7, The text says there are three that testify, indicating the subject matter of the verse concerns a united witness between these three and there is no reason one should suppose it would imply anything else. 1 John 5:7 literally says, "and these three are one." The very next verse, concerning the Spirit and the water and the blood, literally says, "the three are unto the one" also translated "these three agree in one."meaning these too have a common and united testimony,witness. To be consistent, the Trinitarian advocate of 1 John 5:7 should also then conclude these three, the water, the Spirit, and the blood, are also a Trinity of one being. It is quite reckless to interpret this text as declaring the Father, Word and Holy Spirit are one God when all the verse says is the three are a united witness, one testimony. The oneness in question is a oneness of purpose and function, United in the record they bear, not a oneness of identity or ontology and substance of being. In other words, the three, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit are in one united agreement concerning their witness/testimony. In a similar sense, Jesus prayed for this same unity of oneness between himself the Father and the church. We would not therefore assume these three are "God" or "One God." John 17:20-23 I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, *that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you*, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, *that they may be one just as we are one*, I in them and you in me, that they may become *perfectly one*. As we can see, Jesus prayed that he and the Father and all the disciples would be *one*. Shall we then suppose all these are God??? Of course not. And there is not reason to do so with 1 Jn.5:7 either. Both of these passages, John 17:20-23 and 1 John 5:7, are referring to function, not substance of being. This passage simply does not suggest a Triune God even if it was valid. It simply says that there are three who testify and these three are one. It also says the Spirit, water, and blood are one in the same sense. Neither of the two groups of three are to be understood one other thing(such as God), but as one unified testimony.

[@joelsplawn5933]

I wish James and Michael would team up for every debate. They are amazing together

[@daric_]

Joel Splawn It's true. It's good to see them working together in this case. They just happen to be on the opposite end of most other debates (modern gifts of healing, Calvinism vs Arminianism, etc.) but they fully recognize each other as brothers in Christ. They agree in the essentials of the faith (salvation by grace through faith in Christ, the Trinity, the authority of the Bible as scripture, etc.) but disagree on the "non-essentials" (or adiophra).

[@kevinmcdonald6106]

James is a nice guy.

[@davidstanton8526]

kevin Mcdonald I am sure that you would probably say John Calvin was a very nice guy also.

[@davidstanton8526]

kevin Mcdonald instead of saying James is a nice guy, let's just say that he is a smart feller.

[@kevinmcdonald6106]

Calvin was an idiot.

[@missxealaneous7713]

I am going to say that the Trinitarian side seems much more unified, well spoken and well studied. But let us all remember that a well presented argument does not always equal the truth. Please let us keep studying the Word of God for ourselves with humility and open, obedient hearts. God will never leave a true seeker in the dark.

[@brianeckes7minutesermonser840]

I am a trinitarian, but well said :) Jesus said: 'Seek and ye shall find' and if I am seeking God, well then.... :)

[@jesus7es7dios7]

... and where was the first trinitarian baptism?.. i only see unicitarian baptisms in the book of Acts.. when and where?

[@jesus7es7dios7]

@@jacquesvoigt8239 jacques... but where was (in scripture) the first baptism ever recorded... take in mind that these churches in the new testament were not trinitarian, but unicitarian.... they didn't see God as a trinity but as a God w/ diverse manifestations.... so please... if its not in the scripture, then you guys are obligated to tell us WHAT CHURCH (outside the Biblical margin) baptized in the three names (or holy trinity).... IT WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH RIGHT?

[@michaeldukes4108]

@@jesus7es7dios7 “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME [singular, my emphasis] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...” - Matthew 28:19 Boom.

[@jesus7es7dios7]

@@michaeldukes4108 Matthew 28:19 is not an effectuated baptism... its the COMMISSION given by Jesus... Where in the scripture did such type of baptism occurred? in which of the seven churches in the Bible... or by which Apostle or Disciple in the Bible?....

[@cr8ivexpats155]

Am I the only one who loves the way Dr Brown makes his defense effortlessly with a smile?

[@JesusDisciple99]

He is incredible...

[@ter_13l]

oh yes, as he knows he just slam dunked their arguments.

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

His smile always looks sinister.

[@RensSpace]

He’s the absolute best

[@taylorwhitehead3425]

I was thinking that to myself the whole time I watched him

[@josephgarrett3075]

Colossians 1:13-18 and Colossians 2:2-10 are very clear on the deity of Christ. This is why Paul wrote this letter to Colossae- there were wolves who had come into the church there speaking heresies about the nature of Christ. (I think it was the Gnostic's)

[@yahsworld2940]

You are correct. Gnostics and Doecitists were two major theological heresies of that day.

[@logicalcomrade7606]

This is not correct. The problem for the earliest believers wasn't whether Jesus was divine, but whether he was man. Pagans in the roman territories had zero problem with Jesus divinity, they struggled with his humanity. Read 1 John 4:2, John makes it obvious which thing the early church struggled with.

[@Thedisciplemike]

@@logicalcomrade7606 good point!

[@ednamode2524]

This is why studying scripture is SO important!

[@Deb-p4z9s]

I agree, we need to hear all sides of the debate, which is why I recommend reading “Jesus’ Biological Father was Joseph: According to the New Testament” (DS WAGGONER), too. This cites the birth narratives from the King James Version, then points out how Rome added words and events, and in some cases, superimposed over certain words, to arrive at a Virgin Birth story. If you haven’t read it, it’s mind-bending!

[@Justadudeman22]

I'm a pre-incarnate believing Unitarian . After meditating on the word; Yeshuah is Yahweh . I don't know how , it's complicated but I know the spirit of truth. I am tearing now, truth frees me and brings tears to my eyes.

[@smalltimer4370]

Tell me more

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Scripture>personal emotions. I know it’s hard. May God, the kind and all seeing and knowing Vine dresser, prune us of all deception and incorrect thinking.

[@Justadudeman22]

I have since changed to orthodox triune God . Either way as long as you understand Jesus is Jehovah in some way or another you're on the right path. Thank you Jesus.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@Justadudeman22 I am amazed and curious at how you could have come to such a conclusion. Hopefully it’s based on evidence and not emotion. No I can not say he is God literally in any sense. And I think Jesus himself would strongly dislike that as he loved his Father and wanted him to get the rightful attention and importance and dignity he deserves. I can say he was Gods image for us in that he faithfully represented God to us and acted as his vessel, and in this way when we’ve seen him (which really means heard him/seen his actions) we’ve seen the Father.

[@Justadudeman22]

@@youngknowledgeseeker I am the first and the last I am the shepherd The glory I had with you before the world began Honor me as you honor the father He is sinless , which is impossible considering we are inclined to sin Me and the Father are one Etc etc I saw God face to face (even though that would kill a man, they had to have seen Jesus) I am the rock 🪨 I have received all authority on heaven and earth . That would mean God is sharing His glory (which he does not do) He is the Spirit made flesh , the Word made flesh that dwells among us. Baptize in the name of the Father Son Holy spirit . Again sharing Glory with the Father which the Father does not do . Hear o Israel the Lord our God is one. The word one being Echad which is the same word used for when the man and women become one(same word Echad) flesh. Let Us make man in Our image. It goes on. 3 persons in one being. There are three witnesses in heaven The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one. Over and over sharing Glory with the Son . There is no other savior but God. Jesus is God Jehovah the Father , Son, Holy Spirit . Three persons in one being. God is love , love needs a giver and receiver , one cannot love themselves there is only being . This is all I've learned so far as I have not read the whole bible yet. James white does great debates about it. The spirit of God in the flesh of Jesus is God not the flesh . Human language falls short of explanation of the triune God. I hope you can see from the scripture He is fact the Son of God only begotten(unique) which has shared the glory with the Father since before the world began . It took me a whole year to wrestle with this. Again speaking of wrestling Jacob wrestled with God and broke his bone. Either you take this figuretly or literal if you take it literal jacob had to wrestle with Jesus being in the form of man in order to wrestle with Jacob.

[@bany512]

there are explicit passages calling Jesus the only God... unitarian's response: I don't accept these arguments. 🤣

[@stacyturbeville6863]

Men were called God in scripture. Event the Israelite council in Psalms 82. Jesus points this out and rejected being called God (John 10:31-39).

[@stacyturbeville6863]

Romans 1:21-23 rejects the trinity

[@stacyturbeville6863]

1 Corinthians 15:23-28 destroys the trinity.

[@stacyturbeville6863]

Isaiah 6 is a prophecy. Jesus is seen in a vision. God has never been seen (1 John 4:12).

[@stacyturbeville6863]

Yet Jesus did not put himself as God. He worshipped God. Jesus is called God by Thomas as a King just like Solomon was called God in Psalms 45.

[@lshaddai777]

Michael and James, absolutely great job!! I am inspired by the both of you, thank you and God bless!!

[@NelLee-z9d]

You're inspired by false doctrine and failed understanding

[@Kalbee]

@@NelLee-z9dinteresting that that’s what we say about you😂

[@yahsworld2940]

I prefer this debate on pronouns over the ones we're having now 7 years later😅

[@jonathanhauhnar8434]

Me too

[@Justadudeman22]

😆

[@sjappiyah4071]

LOOOL NICE

[@lior38]

LOL

[@mynameis......23]

@@jonathanhauhnar8434 Jesus called Himself God Matthew 7:22-23 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Mark 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” Luke 6:46 46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Revelation 1:17-18 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (God calls Himself the First and the Last in Old Testament Isaiah 41:4, 44;6, 48:12.) Matthew 12:8 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”(Sabbath day is God' Deuteronomy 5:14) John 8:58 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (God's name is "I AM" Exodus 3:14) John 10:29-30 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” Matthew 28:19 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (God forgives sins in old testament, Jesus can also forgive sins) Mark 2:5-7 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” 6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” John 14:11 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. (Disciples calling Jesus God in the GOSPELS and some letters) John 20:28 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Matthew 13:51 51 Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.” Matthew 14:28 28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ Philippians 2:5:11 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 1:1&14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God& John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (Lastly Old Testament said the Messiah will be God)Isaiah 9:6 6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Also way, truth, life is one of 99 names, Jesus called Himself The Way, The Truth, The Life in John 14:6(now mind you these are only the once were Jesus called Himself God in the Gospels and Revelation. I'm not including the once where the apostles called Jesus God in their letters.) _______________________ Jesus said He is the Son of God. John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 17:1-3 17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 9:35-38 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” 38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him. Mark 14:61-62 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:63-64 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 16:15-17 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Luke 22:70 70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.” John 5:23 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 6:67-69 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” ____ GOD calling Jesus His Son Mark 1:9-11 9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11 Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 9:7 7 And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” Matthew 3:17 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

[@michaeljames5881]

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@pozorovatellidi]

Michael James Go to Psalm 45 from which is that quote and you will see for yourself who said that as it seems you are pretty confused thinking that God said about the Son the is God.

[@michaeljames5881]

pozorovatel lidi No it seems you’re confused. Jesus Christ is God almighty! The New Testament is clear JESUS IS GOD!

[@pozorovatellidi]

@@michaeljames5881 Look. If you believe that Son of God can be God at the same time, you don't have a problem only with sticking to Jesus's preaching but also with logic.

[@jesusislife2837]

@@michaeljames5881 Amen! Jesus called himself the Alpha and the Omega. The Father said the same thing in the old testament. Why do people want to be right. It's about what is written. Just believe! Jesus will set you free but you must believe!

[@ManlyServant]

@@pozorovatellidi why assumes that God cant have God after read this verses? Your doGtrine is based on Assumption?

[@nyoungp]

While watching debates it is always quite clear what side God is backing in my opinion. You can see it in the way things are presented, in the clarity, conviction, texts used etc. On the unitarian side you can see to separate men making individual presentations, repeating the same points over again instead of bringing fresh ones or textual supports, and I wont comment on their individual demeanors. On the trinitarian side you see multiple texts, correct use of sources and the original languages, and a tremendous unity between the two. You can see how their presentations flow together seamlessly and are of one thought. United and clear.

[@Mik-ha-El]

... except where Michael Brown said that the Son is the Father.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Let scripture guide you, not appearances. Mr. Buzzard did not get a partner of his choosing…that’s all I’ll say.

[@S.R.M.]

Professor James White writes, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the (Trinitarian) doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, 1998, pp. 14-15). Is it humanly possible from a biblical standpoint to truly understand the Trinity? “It has proved impossible for Christians actually to understand the doctrine or to explain it in any comprehensive way. The doctrine of the Trinity…surpasses our human ability to understand and that must be respected as a divine mystery” (Harold Brown, Heresies: Heresy and Orthodoxy in the History of the Church, 2003, p. 128). Are you confused by the doctrine of the Trinity? Know this, “God is not the author of confusion” (1 Corinthians 14:33). Martin Luther preached, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (The Sermon’s of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, 1988, p. 406). Where in the Bible does it tell us that you must believe in the Trinity to be saved? “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT” [New Testament] (The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary, 1996, see “Trinity”). “Many doctrines are accepted by evangelicals as being clearly taught in the Scripture for which there are no proof texts…It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity… In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that clearly states that there is one God who exists as three persons” (Professor Charles Ryrie, Basic Theology, 1999, p. 89). According to history, “There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the trinity-at any rate from him” (H.G. Wells, The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Are we to understand that the Trinitarian doctrine is so important to our salvation that believing the doctrine is essential to receiving eternal life? What of the apostles and disciples who never heard of the Trinity? How could our Lord and Savior neglect such a fundamental truth required for our salvation?

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

The point when the Unitarians lost the debate. [55:52-56:52 min] At This point, the debate was over.

[@TheCrayonMan529]

This is why Unitarianism isn't that big lol

[@edwardchristopher6588]

I thought that was funny too.

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

Brown was making a mock at truth.

[@tejanissimo]

So, the oneness position lost when the Jewish guy said that Jesus is not God? Sounds like you're a Jehovah's witness

[@infinityApologeticsClips]

This proves that having a Phd doesn't mean anything. The Bible is the ultimate authority and it shows clearly that God is Triune :)

[@richardfiegen7378]

Great compelling arguments Michael and James.

[@alltherisks]

God bless you for sharing this. I've only just started watching this and this is awesome. It's put a real smile on my face. As a premillennial Christian with a heavy concern for the apocalyptic Gospel and apocalyptic Scriptures, I believe with urgency, the Church must reinforce its defence of the Trinity. I believe that this pivotal, fundamental doctrine will come under massive attack shortly.

[@davelinsalata8012]

The Trinity is a man made doctrine. There is one God our Father and One Lord Jesus. They are distinct. Christ is the mediator between man and God. I advise you to study early Christianity. Trinity is false.

[@kinetic7609]

If it's so fundamental why did Jesus or the apostles never articulate it anywhere?

[@SKgyebaek]

@@kinetic7609 read the NT and read the accounts of the earliest church fathers around 100AD. The trinity is the essence of the christian faith revealed by christ’s life on earth.

[@kinetic7609]

@@SKgyebaek I have read the NT, and I've come to the conclusion that the Trinity is false. The earliest Christians we're not trinitarian, it wasn't even a thought among them, only 2-300 years after Christ death did the doctrine of the Trinity become enforced and the "norm". Do you really think that the trinity isn't pagan influence? All pagan religions held some form of trinity in their teachings, from Babylon to Egypt.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@kinetic7609 There is no salvation in a false Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus is God. If I’m wrong, I’m in trouble. Likewise, if you are wrong, you’re in trouble. Read all of the texts which describe, declare, and make known that Jesus is God. Pray about it.

[@reynaldojavier2284]

If group of people are working in unity, then it does not mean that they are one in physical nature. They are distinct individuals that work with one purpose

[@shaunigothictv1003]

Agreed Reynaldo.

[@ibelieve98]

Well put . As we become one in unity in a marriage

[@harrylong575]

Perhaps I may be wrong here, but i think this holds: What you say may be true in the relationships between people, but should precisely the same logic be applied to God? I don't think so. It's like to be one with the Father means to work perfectly with Him, having the same will, etc. But this is not possible if one is a created being, for God cannot create someone or something which has equal power; there are some things that even an omnipotent God cannot do, like making rock too heavy for Him to lift, or creating a married bachelor. Our wills can be aligned to those of the Father perfectly as it will be in heaven, but this is only through Christ. And if through Christ who is one with the Father I can come to the Father, even when I see Jesus I see the Father, then Jesus is God with the Father. This is by necessity, for it is not created things we are dealing with here, but the very nature of God Himself, who being infinite cannot be known except by someone who is also infinite. This should make sense, but it is very late that I am writing this and it is after all a KZbin comment. God bless you! (The One God complex in unity as Brown says)

[@mydailyvlogs777]

Unity can't be equated to personhood! The Trinitarian theory just creates confusion whereas our God is pretty clear & straightforward! How can there be 1 God in 3 persons and each distinct...and if all three are deities...then it drifts into polytheism! God is monotheistic! How can you have one God submissive to the other! Doesn't make sense! God gave man Creation! To manage & walk with Him in Spirit, Truth & Obedience! Man dropped the ball with his disobedience and ushered sin into a perfect world! God gave us Christ! To redeem & save us to His Glory! And we have distorted the very being of Christ by deifying him. Christ was the perfect son of God that Adam wasn't. He was born of the Spirit to be sinless in this world and not like from the actual lineage of Man to be born in sin.

[@LimitlessLuxuryllc]

They are one in essence. You are ascribing human theology to God.

[@christusomnipotens3751]

Total compromise of position by the unitarian side in 31:51 "I agree that Jesus is of the same essence as the Father."

[@OmarOsman98]

A divine object isn't necessarily God.

[@alexanderisrael2715]

That's not what he says in that timestamp.

[@leahjames6870]

@@OmarOsman98 Exactly. Are not angels some type of divinity??? Surely they are not GOD.

[@OmarOsman98]

@@leahjames6870 Trinitarians are no so intelligent

[@danielblair1480]

This is one of the best debates I've seen and Dr. Brown and Dr. White make a great team

[@n3rds3y3vi3w]

As a former atheist who’s recently been exploring Christianity, this stuff is fascinating. Right now I’m leaning toward the trinity but obviously am open to the truth wherever it comes from.

[@renitv]

Anyone who searches for truth must go to Jesus. Do not worry just read the teaching of Jesus and you will know the truth, and Jesus is truth himself. Here is a fact- Jesus denies Trinity!

[@renitv]

@Saint DragonThus saith Jehovah, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am Jehovah that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;- Isaiah 44:24 In mark 12:29-30 29Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God, Jehovah is one. 30 And you shall love Jehovah your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. 32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34 Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."- mark 12:32-34. Jesus said Jehovah is the one true God and he commanded to love him. Likewise the scribe also said there is just one God, not 3 in 1. Jesus also said 3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.- John 17:3 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God(Jehovah) 'made them male and female.'- mark 10:6 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:- Isaiah 45:5

[@quil8322]

@@renitv real quick no one is saying there's a God besides him, since there is 1 God, so those verses are fine. Jesus, father, holy spirit are God. One God. You can argue against it, but be careful to not misrepresent trinitarian thought.

[@leahjames6870]

Jesus said The Father is the only TRUE GOD John 17:3. You will do well to believe him.

[@leahjames6870]

@@quil8322 The trinity doctrine teaches 3 gods. You do not have three co equal, co eternal, co powerful persons, who are all separate from each other, to equal one God. That’s a contradiction.

[@ABY4JC92]

56:20-40 Non-Trinitarian: "If Joe sends me out on a job, I am Joe... in Hebrew thinking. Not Joe, but Joe." Michael Brown: "If Joe sends you and you are Joe, I am sure when you go home to snuggle with his wife in bed she won't accept that." At that point these unitarians should have just conceded the debate and gone home (to snuggle with their wives). Gold from Brown!

[@sobotniblog]

Abraham ForChrist this quotes shows that both of them are wrong in theology.

[@mmafan2850]

Abraham ForChrist too snuggle with there wives lol that's funny. Yea the concept of the Trinity is clearly present throughout scripture. The 2 Unitarians don't have eyes too see or ears too hear unfortunately.

[@bramleycookingapple]

Conquest of Canaan Promised Exo 23:20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Exo 23:21 Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

[@johntafoya6443]

Abraham ForChrist Joe is not God you lose

[@kemal3599]

So your Bible teaches there are 3 eternal omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent "Persons" all with their own conscience, all able to communicate with eachother but that equates to one God...

[@joelkerbey4175]

Thank God I watched this! I was a Trinitarian for 15 years. After properly looking into all of the arguments and verses contexually for both sides, I am now a Unitarian. YHVH our Father is God alone!

[@DavidBrown-wm1xz]

It’s great to see someone seeking truth

[@hafizhasnainashraf3565]

Quran also say same thing

[@joelkerbey4175]

But the Quran doesnt say that Jesus is the son of God or that he was raised from the dead, or that he died for our sins (which is the gospel)

[@DavidBrown-wm1xz]

@@joelkerbey4175 which is who’s gospel? Not the gospel Jesus taught

[@joelkerbey4175]

Sorry, what do you mean? That was a response to the other guy who said the Quran said the same thing@@DavidBrown-wm1xz

[@kyledavis5530]

these non trinitarians are really not lead by the Spirit and are so misinformed. And they keep referencing books outside the Holy Scriptures to make their points. Lord help them .

[@_SMTY85]

Kyle Davis what??? You have no idea what your saying.

[@BigDaddyTCG]

Neither does referencing nothing but the New Testament, which was written long after Jesus was here. There is a reason Judaism is monotheistic and is the earliest scriptures on God. Dont let Western interpretations skew your view.

[@andys3035]

Did you even watch the debate? They made dozens of scriptural references. On top of that, to say someone is not lead by the Spirit is bad but somehow makes you think you're spiritually superior.

[@brianeckes7minutesermonser840]

I agree Kyle.

[@gimel77]

I just debated a foremost Trinitarian. The Scripture was clearly on my side, so he kept trying to get me to look at commentaries. He had no answer for the questions I asked him. The center of the debate was around John 17:5. John 17:5 is clearly talking about God's foreknowledge of the suffering servant and his subsequent glorification. To show this, I had him look at John 17:24, which uses similar language, and then at 1 Peter 1:20, which uses the same language as in John 17:24, and 1 Peter 1:20 clearly says that the Son was foreknown, and the same Greek word that means foreknown in 1 Peter 1:20 is also used in Romans 8 to refer to believers that God foreknew. He had no answer for this. He just wanted me to read commentaries on John 17:5, which, of course, are Trinitarian and thus agree with him. If you have a strictly Scriptural debate, you will find that the Trinity is not Scriptural. I've studied all of the verses on this, and if anyone has questions, please ask. Also, I do believe that Jesus is the incarnation of God. But there was not eternally a distinct person called God the Son. That is not found anywhere.

[@tadm123]

Jesus: "I am the alpha and the omega. The first and the last.The beggining and the end." Would a mere prophet made this claims? Jesus is God.

[@bramleycookingapple]

You are correct. These people who quote a verse or two to support their argument have not considered all the verses that say the opposite. A balanced approach is to look at all the verses on a particular subject that are interpreted one way or another, and then to harmonize all the verses. If nine out of ten verses agree on one thing, then the one out of ten verses has to be harmonized, or left on one side until and explanation can be found to bring it into harmony. The overall harmony of the scriptures does not lead teach the pre-existence of Jesus, or the Trinity.

[@pozorovatellidi]

tadm123 You say that Jesus is God... so... is His Father the Father of God? :-)

[@johndavid3474]

the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Rev 1:8). Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." In these two verses, the explanation of Alpha and Omega is given. Alpha meaning the firstborn from among the dead, from where the beginning is. And Omega the end of the world, when the mighty God, is to come to judge mankind.. John 5:22"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son"

[@aaronquinn6626]

@@pozorovatellidi you are making a category error just like the athiests do when they say "Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?" God is the father, the son and the holy spirit. 3 persons one God.

[@pozorovatellidi]

@@aaronquinn6626 No. I'm a Christian and just trying to help by using logic. If Jesus is Son of God, it simply denies his Godship. "Son of God" has a meaning... that the person with this title is not God. Jesus clearly stated that the only true God is Father - his God, our God. Jesus never claimed Godship as it would be not only nonsensical but also against his preaching where he follows Father's will, not own. So... Son of God being God is... 1. a nonsense 2. against Jesus's preaching

[@righteousnessofchrist3304]

It's amazing that the Unitarians just ignore the holy scriptures. They clearly say Jesus Christ is God is the flesh. Jesus Christ is the great I AM Exodus 3:14---John 8:58. Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 44:6, Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 14:9, Acts 20:28, John 1:1, John 1:14, John 2:18-21, Matthew 1:23, 1 John 1:1-2 Eternally existed with the Father, Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22 no angels involved here, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 1:8-10, Revelation 1:8, Revelation 1:11, Revelation 2:2, 22:12-13, 1 Timothy 3:16, Jude 1:25, John 20:28, Titus 2:13. And i could keep going on and on the triune nature of God. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, and no has refuted Dr. Brown or Dr. White. Also, some of the Unitarians comments are mind boggling. You're blind to the Holy Scriptures, and I'm not saying that to be mean, but it's true. Read all of the Holy Scriptures!

[@TrustJesus.]

RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST I guess they just sadly ignore all those verses like you said, or twist them just like the Jehovah’s Witnesses

[@righteousnessofchrist3304]

Trust Jesus Yes brother, I agree. Not only Jehovah Witnesses, but Mormons, HRM, etc. It's mind boggling that People reject the triune of God, its everywhere in the Holy Scriptures. You might have already done this, but next time you talk to a Jehovah Witness, show them John 2:18-22, and you can even use their bible, it's another Trinity or Godhead verse. I see it everywhere, that more people are denying the Lord Jesus Christ's deity, and the triune nature of God, but I think it's part of the great falling way talked about in the book of Thessalonians. Peoples excuses are, The Trinity came from the RCC, and that's so ridiculous. Jesus said himself he is the great I AM, Exodus 3:14----John 8:58. God bless brother, Keep fighting the good fight.

[@trevormason3825]

They spent a lot of time quoting books outside of the Bible. The refused to stick to scripture because scripture does not fit their narrative.

[@Mik-ha-El]

The point of the New Testament isn’t that Jesus is God, but that he is the Anointed one of God. Perhaps you should re read the Gospels, while asking yourself honestly who they are teaching that Jesus is.

[@jawnatutorow]

1 Corinthians 15:20-29 explains the authority given to Jesus by YHWH and that it doesn't include YHWH and that Jesus will bow to YHWH when he is finished doing his Fathers will. Deut 18:18-19 explains the word being God. Not Jesus. Genesis 1:26 YHWHs speaking to/about Adam and Eve that is the only time he uses plural form when speaking about making mankind. Only YHWH rested on day seven... Where's Jesus just one day later? Or on day 5,4,3,2,1 All scripture you referenced can be refuted by scripture in context. Keep in mind the shema, Deut 6:5 always when reading Scripture. Don't forget Numbers 23:19!👍 May YHWH bless you! 🙏

[@EmmittCooper]

the Unitarianian lost the debate at tape time 52:55 when Dr. Buzzard admitted that the Lord Jesus was called God. the scripture, Psalms 45:6 and its confirmation in Hebrews 1:8 & 9. that was the first mistake, but he compounded his mistake by adding emphasis to the fact, trying to cover up his mistake by calling the Lord Jesus God, he said, "the Lord Jesus have a God over him". that's a dilemma. for if the Lord Jesus is called God, and then have a God over him, then you have TWO GODs. and Dr. Buzzard preach against 2, or 3 Gods as he say, 2 or 3 Yahweh. but here admits two God, one over another God. and that's against scripture, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”. and Dr. Buzzard states that the WORD, the Messiah came after, or Later when Mary birth him. that in itself nullifies the Unitarianism doctrine, for it violates Isaiah 43:10. for if the Lord Jesus came after, or later on, then Isaiah 43:10 is comprise by saying a "God" was formed "AFTER". NO GOD IS BEFORE, OR "AFTER" HIM. nor is there a God beside him, which comprise the Trinitarian doctrine also, so again, both doctrine is in ERROR. may God bless

[@michaelinzo]

Nope

[@EmmittCooper]

Edward Pierce GINOLJC, Oh yes, the Unitarianian lost the debate when Dr. Buzzard admitted that the Lord Jesus was called God in Hebrews 1:8. and he embarrassed himself by applying a God on top of him. how ignorant could he be to make such a statement like that. when one put another God, or god on top of the almighty, that's not only blasphemy, but also polytheistic in nature. so that is the failure of the unitarianian position. It make no difference how many times God is reference to as the father, (whom the Lord Jesus really is, in his natural state Spirit), it takes only one reference to nullify all those other misunderstood, and men wisdom of ignorance reference to the father as God. as I been saying, the Lord Jesus is the "diversity", or the OFFSPRING of himself in flesh. the scriptures, old and new testaments proves that out. but cheer up, because both position unitarianian, and trinitarian positions are in ERROR. the Lord Jesus is God, (the Holy Spirit), the Father, the ROOT, without flesh, Old Testament. and Son, shared, "diversified", in flesh, the OFFSPRING,. hence the terminology, the root and the offspring, the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, who is the SAME ONE, and ONLY PERSON, the HOLY SPIRIT, (smile).

[@michaelinzo]

Re watch the video maybe you will understand..... Your Faith is so based on fear and ignorance....Be present while watching the video not based on your ego or selfishness maybe you will hear the deeper meaning of the debate...

[@EmmittCooper]

one's faith must be based on LOVE, and in that LOVE is TRUTH and UNDERSTANDING, and no man ego, of lies.

[@Novigal22]

+Emmitt Cooper Aren't there two different greek and hebrew words for God, God and god though?

[@mynameis......23]

Jesus called Himself God Matthew 7:22-23 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Mark 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” Luke 6:46 46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Revelation 1:17-18 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (God calls Himself the First and the Last in Old Testament Isaiah 41:4, 44;6, 48:12.) Matthew 12:8 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”(Sabbath day is God' Deuteronomy 5:14) John 8:58 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (God's name is "I AM" Exodus 3:14) John 10:29-30 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” Matthew 28:19 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (God forgives sins in old testament, Jesus can also forgive sins) Mark 2:5-7 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” 6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” John 14:11 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. (Disciples calling Jesus God in the GOSPELS and some letters) John 20:28 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Matthew 13:51 51 Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.” Matthew 14:28 28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ Philippians 2:5:11 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 1:1&14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God& John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (Lastly Old Testament said the Messiah will be God)Isaiah 9:6 6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Also way, truth, life is one of 99 names, Jesus called Himself The Way, The Truth, The Life in John 14:6(now mind you these are only the once were Jesus called Himself God in the Gospels and Revelation. I'm not including the once where the apostles called Jesus God in their letters.) _______________________ Jesus said He is the Son of God. John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 17:1-3 17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 9:35-38 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” 38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him. Mark 14:61-62 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:63-64 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 16:15-17 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Luke 22:70 70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.” John 5:23 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 6:67-69 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” ____ GOD calling Jesus His Son Mark 1:9-11 9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11 Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 9:7 7 And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” Matthew 3:17 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

[@dima8955i]

God Bless you Dr. Brown!! You are a wonderful defender of the truth

[@chrisoliverdelacruz5347]

Anthony: If Joe sends me out on a job, I am Joe in Hebrew thing. Michael Brown: you know, if Joe sends you, and you are Joe, I'm sure you go home to snuggle with his wife and beg, and she won't accept that.. hahaha cute analysis haha

[@acortes7771]

Chris Oliver Dela Cruz, Anthony Buzzard is a sneaky devil. I'm sure he does that, lol.....

[@leonardhunt5677]

@@acortes7771 the New Testament One God is both the Father and Jesus John chapter 5 verse 23 'that all should honor the Son even as they honor the Father John chapter 17 verse 3 'and this is life eternal that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent' and 1stCorinthians chapter 8 verse 6: each, the Father and Jesus John chapter 8 verses 17-18 'it is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself and the Father who sent me bears witness of me. 'It is also written in your law that ' Scripture John chapter 10 verses 34-35 'It is also written in your law' Scripture John chapter 10 verses 34-35 'that the testimony' as before a judge 'of two' the speaker and one other' Matthew chapter 18 verse 16 'take with you one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established' 'men is true' in John chapter 5 verses 37 Jesus used the Father as one of his witnesses but didn't qualify him by the law since Jesus also used his works as another witness. Now Jesus cites the law and by God's own definition of a man which he created the FATHER , although a spirit John chapter 4 verse 24 since he is God, is a man as God defined a man when he made Adam Genesis chapter 2nd verse 7 - having his own material body which is a soul and later added to him by forming a rhuach spirit within him - for God his rhuach spirit is the Holy Spirit of God WITHIN HIM/HIS GOD-BODY. AFTER his death and resurrection Jesus is the Almighty God of mankind Revelation chapter 1 verses 7-8 Matthew chapter 28 verse 18 while God is Allmighty God to those in heaven until Jesus returns his kingdom to the Father that God MAY BE ALL IN ALL 1stCorinthians 15 verse 28- GodMAY be all in all means God is not NOW all in all. .

[@leonardhunt5677]

Yeah the Trinitarians got it all WRONG well ... some of it anyways. The New Testament One God is both the Father and Jesus John chapter 17 verse 3 'and this is life eternal that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent' while the Word emptied himself of his God body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6 which included being emptied of his God body God-glory God-knowledge God-abilities and eternal life John chapter 5 verse 26 and God-nature for we know that no man has both a God-nature and a man-nature with Jesus being a man in all things Hebrews 2nd chapter verse 17 therefore not any longer a true God John chapter 17 verse 3. Yet, even being a true God John chapter 17 verse 3 a spirit John chapter 'by law' the Father is a man as God defined a man when he made Adam having his own material body with body parts and rhuach spirit-the Holy Spirit ofGod- within his God-body John chapter 8 verses 17-18.

[@FineWineFletch]

If this was a rap battle, he wouldve killed him with that line lol

[@jacobsenh7383]

If I send my wife Jacobsen to by gifts for our kids I am still Jacobsen and we are still one Jacobsen.We say let us buy (God said Let us make man in our image) Genesis 1:26I say who will go for us. ( The Father asks and Jesus answered I will go.Isaiah 6:8heard the voice of the Lord say, “Whom will I send? Who will go on our behalf?” I answered, “Here I am, send me!”How can we be one as the Son and the Father are one?A perfect mariage is a beautifull picture of a triune God. We are made in God’s image male and female as one and never meant to be two alone but 2 in 1.

[@maxnurse7158]

James and Michael are the coolest team ever

[@ezza88ster]

I stumbled upon this and now I'm excited!...I'm such a geek...

[@ralphfoster6254]

I couldnt get NO ONE to adequately explain the Trinity, they only left me confused,i finally gained understanding when i discoverd the Hebrew meanings of key Hebrew words such as "Elohim" & "Echad" i was set free in my spirit!!!

[@peteholms9298]

explain

[@GreatQoutes-123]

Yes please explain.

[@4jgarner]

The unitarians here do some impressive strawmanning.

[@Standing_on_the_word]

Yep they are mental tap dancing lol

[@bobbyraejohnson]

1 Timothy 2:5 this is pretty straight forward.

[@Justadudeman22]

@@bobbyraejohnson he is God and he is man. This is why he is the mediator. A perfect combination of the two . The spirit that became flesh .

[@lets_wrapitup]

@@Justadudeman22 God can’t be both at the same time since they defies the very meaning of God which means to exist ultimately independently. Call him a god, divine, god-like, in the form of God, in the image of God, whatever you like. But do not call him God almighty which is completely seperate from just the general meaning implied by ‘god’.

[@Justadudeman22]

@@lets_wrapitup after seeing b1 Timothy 2:5 I agree. That verse shatters the Trinity. As well as Jesus saying we Jews know what we worship . They worshipped literally one(person) God Jehovah. God bless.

[@daogdaog]

Where in the Bible that Jesus claimed to be just an agent of God the Father?

[@AlexM-xx3nm]

bo ang 1 Timothy 2:5 is about as clear as you can get, note that I do not believe that Christ was just an ‘agent’ he was the unique son of God but he was clearly GIVEN the Holy Spirit (that is Gods power - not a seperate being) and he gave up this Spirit when he died

[@MegaTRUTH007]

bo ang, John 10:30

[@tylerchua929]

bo ang Jesus claimed to be God

[@Maricarmjolo]

For God(Father) so love the world, that He (Father) gave His Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have everlasting life.

[@cuttingedgetechsongsmovies9662]

John 7:29

[@alanp6773]

What I find interesting is.., trinitarians call the Roman Catholic Church false but believe in a vote taken at the council of Naceana for a trinity God. The vote was very close. So, then priest tell uneducated people how to believe. But, people still did not believe on a wide scale, not even close to a majority. Not until around the year 650 ad. Why, hundreds of years of uneducated people just were brainwashed into believing the strong hold of the Roman Catholic Church. Then today preachers still insist on the trinity and how do they explain what was never mentioned in the Bible.., it’s a mystery.., cannot be explained and as a few preachers state.., they don’t want to serve a explainable God. Are you really serious...!!!!!????? Then they try to force down your throat.., if you don’t believe in the trinity.., you’re going to Hell. What they are also saying.., the 1st 650 years after the resurrection that all the people who never believed this, they are all in Hell, maybe 2 billion people. All trinitarian Christians do is throw everyone into Hell. Weird but true, but it turns out trinitarian Christians are the evil doers. How sad...!

[@bridgetazaz]

"the vote was really close"?? www.americamagazine.org/issue/575/article/real-story-council-nicea

[@HomegrownHydra]

This is false. There were around 300 bishops at the Council of Nicaea and only 2 didn't sign the resulting creed. The Trinitarian position was absolutely the overwhelming majority position of the early Church.

[@davidstratmanart]

@@HomegrownHydra Them signing it doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that they sided with the position, but just that they conceded, under threat of excommunication. If someone says, sign this or you are going to lose your job, status, and be socially ostracized, you might to publicly "agree" with something you do not actually believe.

[@eddie0009]

YHWH is eating and speaking to Abraham in human form, then He says He will rain down fire from YHWH in heaven, 2 persons. No one is arguing against that. Why is it ok that YHWH is 2 persons, but He cannot be 3? And why would it be ok to Unitarians that YHWH can be in human form for half a day, yet He simply cannot dwell in human form for 33 years?

[@logicalcomrade7606]

Oftentimes, in the OT when someone would send messengers in their place it would be said that you spoke with the one that sent them. To argue that YHWH actually sat with and talked with Abraham makes the scripture out to be a lie. Jesus Himself said that no one has seen the father, yet you claim that Abraham spoke with and ate with yhwh?

[@jawnatutorow]

Deut 6:5 is clear there is only one YHWH. So Genesis 18.... it says YHWH twice I agree, but there is only ONE as per scripture. When I looked into the Hebrew of Genesis 18 I learned about the 'Mark of accusative' which seems to mean, saying the same thing in two ways. This makes more sense because we are told over and over and over again there is only one Almighty God. Who is also not man Numbers 23:19 Because He is Spirit that no man has seen before John 1.

[@righteousnessofchrist3304]

Great video brother's. Its mind boggling that People reject the trinity or Godhead, its everywhere in the holy scriptures. And its under attack today like never before. People are falling away, and people who reject the trinity or Godhead are doing exactly what 2 Timothy 4:2-4 said they would do.

[@leahjames6870]

It’s everywhere in scripture, BUT yet there’s not a explicit scripture stating such a doctrine🤔No one in the Old Testament believes or taught it, no one in The New Testament believed or taught it. But somehow it’s there🤔

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

It doesn't need to be explicit to be there. Implicit claims and explicit claims are both logically true.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

Every Christian is going to believe a worldview that includes numerous implicit claims from the Bible. Unitarianism itself, for example. Unitarianism includes positive affirmation of the negative claim that Christ is not God. Where is that explicitly stated in the Bible?

[@xerdanescal4105]

​@@leahjames6870 indeed, theres no explicit scripture stating such doctrine the same as the word Omnicient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent..Yet we acknowledge that all the component of these words are written in the Scripture to describe the power of our God...

[@alsmith5526]

It’s appropriate to worship Jesus, because of his sacrifice. He is the go-between as the “mediator” for the world and our “advocate” as the church class. He is our elder brother and sacrificed all on our behalf and is therefore worthy of our admiration and praise. Through him we, in our lowly and filthy condition, are able to approach the Creator of the Universe. Without him, we would continue to die until we all extinguished ourselves. See Philippians 2:8-11. It’s all about God’s plan and Jesus’ sacrifice.

[@Nikzww187]

Pass, not worshipping a human.

[@delanara2323]

@@Nikzww187 Jesus existed before he was a human. He was only in the flesh for a time here with us. Jesus is the word of God and the word of God is uncreated. This is because God ONLY creates through his word. If the word was not as eternal as God the father, then how could God create anything? This is why the bible states in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God (the father) and the word WAS GOD.

[@Srhyle]

As a Christian with little knowledge, what I get from this discussion is the concept of trinity is what makes all of the bible make sense. The other belief (that Jesus is not God, just a glorified being) will make the bible have many contradictions.

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

You are right about having little knowledge, because extra biblical concept of the Trinity makes the Bible an incomprehensible mess. The other belief, that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, a virgin born man whom God resurrected and glorified, has zero contradictions.

[@Srhyle]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod on the contrary, Jesus did claim he is God. So there's that. Either that is true or Jesus is a liar which is apparently what you believe.

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

@@Srhyle Actually it makes you the Iiar, because he never claimed to be God.

[@Srhyle]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod he did, now you claim Jesus lied by lying. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏽

[@Srhyle]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod in fact by common sense alone, he was crucified because of blasphemy. If that can't get through your head, I don't know what can. You're in a dangerous "church" my friend. Get out fast!

[@MPoweredChristianMinistries]

If it’s possible to be more of a Trinitarian than I already was, I am after watching this debate! The Unitarian position is on the sand, rather than the rock, and the storm is coming. There is NO ONE BESIDES GOD who deserves our worship! Jesus is Lord and King and Savior and High Priest and Prophet only because He proceeds from the Father! I pray the Christian brethren hold fast to sound doctrine and not give in to that which is falsely called knowledge and the doctrines of demons. And I pray that the Lord continues to open the doors for many Jews into the Messianic Judaism movement! In Jesus’s Name. Amen.

[@zachariah7114]

Please provide me one verse from the New Testament which explicitly (or implicitly) states that, or tries to convey, that belief in Jesus Christ as being co-eternal and co-equal with God the Father is a salvific issue, on which the promise He made to Abraham rests. I also ask you one simple question: do true believers acknowledge any other God than Jesus Christ's God?

[@zachariah7114]

@@edenicchristian335 As Adam Clarke (1760-1832) put it, "The doctrine of the eternal Sonship of Christ is, in my opinion, anti-scriptural, and highly dangerous. This doctrine I reject for the following reasons: - 1st. I have not been able to find any express declaration in the Scriptures concerning it. 2dly. If Christ be the Son of God as to his Divine nature, then he cannot be eternal; for son implies a father; and father implies, in reference to son, precedency in time, if not in nature too. Father and son imply the idea of generation; and generation implies a time in which it was effected, and time also antecedent to such generation. 3dly. If Christ be the Son of God, as to his Divine nature, then the Father is of necessity prior, consequently superior to him. 4thly. Again, if this Divine nature were begotten of the Father, then it must be in time; i.e. there was a period in which it did not exist, and a period when it began to exist. This destroys the eternity of our blessed Lord, and robs him at once of his Godhead. 5thly. To say that he was begotten from all eternity, is, in my opinion, absurd; and the phrase eternal Son is a positive self-contradiction. Eternity is that which has had no beginning, nor stands in any reference to Time. Son supposes time, generation, and father; and time also antecedent to such generation. Therefore the conjunction of these two terms, Son and eternity is absolutely impossible, as they imply essentially different and opposite ideas."

[@tylerchua929]

AManAgainstTime God died physically because he became a man!

[@zachariah7114]

@@edenicchristian335 Not to mention the Council of Chalcedon declared, "One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, *indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union* , but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into ONE PERSON and One Hypostasis; *not as though He were parted or divided into Two Persons* , but One and the Self-same Son". Modern day trinitarians love to dance between "that was the human Jesus" or "that was the divine Jesus" in their usual double-talk, but according to the Council of Chalcedon (451) there is ONE person and ONE Jesus and you can't divide or separate the two natures. They taught two natures in one union. Basically, they teach that the divine nature of Jesus Christ also died on the cross which we know is impossible as God is immortal. They also teach Jesus being fully divine and fully human was tempted in the desert by the devil, but we also know God can't be tempted. They also teach Jesus in his full divinity did not know the final hour, but God knows all things in advance.

[@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep]

@@zachariah7114 Blood of Jesus in a fountain in heaven. Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. Zechariah 13:1 is clearly talking about a sacrifice provided by/of God. Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Romans 8, Ephesians 1 the eternal covenant, last mentioned, first made. Where the trinity made a covenant with themselves before the creation of the universe for the redemption of man. That is why the text states "by myself" it was not made with man but the fellowship of the trinity with themselves so it could not be broken the redemption of man could not be stopped. A covenant is between more than one person. And the result of the eternal covenant? The power of the blood raised Jesus from the dead, thus can do the same for you! Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant,

[@mollkatless]

after watching part one, I have one question: did the unitarians prepare? at all?

[@danielgilbert7366]

I got this thought today........ God says we are Body, Soul, Spirit and lets be honest im 1 So our very being testifies 3 is 1 yet all are 100% me/you..... Your spirit will be judged on what the body does they are not separate in Gods eyes. Hebrews 4:12 may help with what im saying. Though it is impossible for the deaf and blind to see. 2 speakers have a religion the other 2 have a relationship with our father. Owe and the 2 Unitarians got destroyed : )

[@benjaminyashua2130]

Daniel Gilbert whats the difference between soul and spirit?

[@nb3500]

Daniel Gilbert Well yes but I bet you wouldn't admit that your soul and your spirit are other persons would you?

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

That is a terrible analogy. Let me explain. In the Bible you are a soul. Your souls is the totality of your being. It can be dead or alive, aka you can be dead or alive. You body is your soul. Either alive or dead. The spirit is breath. The mysterious powerful animating principle/force that comes from God and seemingly returns to him at your death. You are not 3 in 1. You are one being either alive or dead. Either animated by God/breath or dead. Jesus is Gods beloved son. Does he not say that over and over and over again?

[@danielgilbert7366]

@@youngknowledgeseeker Where in the bible does it say my body is my Soul?

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@danielgilbert7366 Genesis 2. “God formed man from the dust of the earth, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul” The word “breath” here is the literal word for “spirit” as well. They are the same word and meaning depends on context (Job 27:3). The word for soul here, “nephesh”, is depicted as now being alive and no longer dead thanks to God animating it (See Ezekiel where God says Souls can and will die). Soul wasn’t what a man had but was what a man was. Spirit was the animating principle/force from God that makes the body/mind/heart/lungs/etc function. The breath of a man/woman. Please please please go and see these things for yourself. They don’t teach this in Church, we’re so confused as a people. The word for soul is “Nephesh”. The word for spirit is “Ruach”. The word for body is “basar” I think but it’s not present in Genesis. But it doesn’t matter. Do a word study on these words and see for yourself what they really mean and how they’re used. Note that of course their are subtleties in their usage and that they can be used in multiple ways, just like the words spirit, soul, body, etc can be used in multiple ways in English.

[@SpotterVideo]

Joseph Good is a part of the current movement to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem, and renew animal sacrifices. Apparently, he has cut John 19:30, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24 out of his Bible.

[@DaddyKratosOfTheShire]

GOD bless you all! DANG DR BROWN YOU ARE ON FIRE!

[@jamesbradford4770]

Did everyone in the room including our panelists totally miss verse 5, like I did until just today? Psalm 110:5 (KJV) 5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. "The Lord" from above is adonay, not adoni. All debate over. I checked this in the tanach and it's also adonay. Jesus the Lord, adonay, is at the right hand just as Christ testified.

[@Akracjusz]

Adonay in verse 5 is the Father.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Yes but aren’t the vowel pointings a later addition? That’s the point Mr.Buzzard was trying to make at times as well. I’m assuming your getting this from the masoretic text but 🤷🏾‍♂️. So it’s ambiguous to start (for us modern readers) and an educated guess is made based on context and yes thing like the Masoretic text. Imo Jesus is not l’Adonai he is l’Adon,

[@golddiamond7440]

Jesus said to Samaritan women: "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; We Worship What we Do Know, for salvation is from the Jews." Jesus is Not claiming here that the Jews Did not understand the full Nature of God, rather he emphatically states that "we [including Jesus] worship what WE KNOW". Jesus, in Mark 12:29 stated oneness of God which is the Shema found in Deuteronomy 6:4 and Jews agreed with Jesus. It is clear that Jesus worshiped God whom he called "Father". The Father of Jesus is the God of both Old Testament and New Testament. According to Jesus' own mouth, the Father is the "Only True God" (John 17:3), "who alone is God" (John 5:44), and "who is Lord of heaven and earth" (Matthew 11:25). It is the Almighty Father who is the Father and God of Jesus, and also our Father and God (John 20:17).

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

+Gold Diamond Jesus is saying that to the Samaritan woman in a general sense in that the Jews, worshiped God. Not him. There is nowhere in scripture where it says that Jesus worshiped the Father. He is talking about the Jewish religion as opposed to theirs. "for salvation is of the Jews." As for Mark 12:29. Paul uses the Shema in 1 Cor 8:6 for both the Father and the Son. "we have but ONE God the Father, and *onelord* Jesus Christ." Mark 12:29 contains "one lord" in it. "Hear O Israel, The Lord (Jesus Christ) our God (The Father) is *one lord.* " If the Son is the not God, then the Father can't be "Lord" by your own standards. Marr 11:25. As for John 20:17, the Father calls the Son "God" in Heb 1:8. So they call each other God because they are.

[@golddiamond7440]

+preto shohmoofc guy Jesus clearly has a God whom he calls "Father". God being called "Father" is found in the Old Testament as well. Jesus emphatically stated in John 4:22 that "WE" [including himself] "WORSHIP" whom we [Jews] know. The phrase "for salvation is of the Jews" simply means that God's message of Salvation has "first" come to the Jews [Jesus is a Jew too]. As Apostle Paul states in Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: FIRST TO THE JEW, then to the Gentile". Also Acts 3:26 states: "When God raised up his servant, he sent him FIRST to you [Jews] to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways." Mark 12:29 and Deuteronomy 6:4 DOES NOT remotely suggest that it includes Jesus. This is an erroneous interpretation of the Trinitarians and Oneness to show that it includes Jesus or that Jesus is the Father. The Shema of Israel is about the "Oneness" of God, who is known as the "Father" in the Old Testament as well (See: Deuteronomy 32:6, Isaiah 64:8, Malachi 2:10, Isaiah 63:16). It seem that you are unaware that Father/God is LORD (capitals) and Jesus is "Lord" in the English Bibles, to make distinction. Apostle Paul states in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live". Jesus is "Lord", Not "LORD GOD". Perhaps you do not know that Jesus was "MADE" Lord. In Acts 2:36 it states: "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has MADE this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah." Therefore your statement: "If the Son is the not God, then the Father can't be "Lord" by your own standards. Marr 11:25." is illogical and wrong. Sadly your interpretation of Hebrew 1:8 is pagan. It literally makes "Two Gods" calling each other "God". Firstly, the phrase "But about the Son he says" as it appear in bible in Hebrew 1:8 DOES NOT exist in Greek manuscripts. This is deliberately added by the translators to make it look as if "God" is directly saying these things about Jesus, and calling him "Capital-G God". But this verse is actually quotation of Psalm 45:6, where King David is the one who is saying these things!. King David calls Messiah "elohim" in his prophetic visionary experience. The word "elohim" can mean "gods", "God", "god" and it is used of "angels" and "men" as well as God. In the Hebrew culture, anyone who has been given great authority by God to represent Him was called "elohim", meaning "god" (Psalm 82:1,6). Now read from Psalm 45:6-7: "Your throne, "elohim" [god, mighty one] is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED WICKEDNESS. Therefore "elohim" [god], YOUR GOD [eloheka, Almighty God in Context] has ANOINTED YOU with the oil of gladness beyond your companions..". God DID NOT anoint God or Himself!. This passage is about the Messiah [who can be called "god" or "elohim" in the Hebrew culture] who "loved righteousness and hated wickedness" and was "anointed" by Almighty God to function as Lord Messiah. Whether one like it or not, but Jesus has a God whom he praise and worship according to the Bible, and no one can change this truth!!. Jesus calls his Father "God" in the New Testament. Anyone [including Jesus] who understand that there is a higher power or supreme being who is above all that exist will call that being "God", an object of praise and worship. And this is what Jesus does, he calls his Father "God" [both before and after resurrection]. I will leave some verses for you, and I hope that you will realize that Jesus is Not God, but is the "Son OF God" as it is emphatically stated in the Bible. " keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better". (Ephesians 1:17) "And has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father- to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen". (Revelation 1:6) "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name". (Jesus calls Father "his God", even after resurrection and ascension to heaven). (Revelation 3:12). "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Peter 1:3) "Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, ‘I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’” (John 20:17) "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort." (2 Corinthians 1:3). "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, LORD of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do." (Luke 10:21) "A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." (Luke 18:19) "How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?" (John 5:44). "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

Gold Diamond a. Hebrew 1:8 DOES exist in Greek manuscripts. That's a lie. And the Father has a God when he declared his Son to Be God. Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he says, "Your throne O God.." b. The subject of John 4:22 was the Jewish Nation in general. You need to find me a better verse. This one does not work on me. Can you not find me a verse where Jesus worships God? No? Wow! c. The subject of 1 Cor 8:6 is the Shema. This is why he introduces "there is no God but one." in 1 Cor 8:4. This phrase is only ever used to describe the Shema. Take Mark 12:29 for example: After the scribe quotes the Shema in Mark 12:29 he confirms the Shema by making this quote to Jesus in vs. 32, "He is one, and there is no one else besides him." Jesus didn't say this, the Scribe did. This is why Jesus said to him in Vs. 34. "You are not *far* from the kingdom of God." He didn't tell him that he was correct, but on the right track. d. Elohim is not singular, but plural. "im" in Hebrew is plural. Examples: Ephra im translates as "multiple blessings". What is an angel? Answer: cherub. What's another kind of angel? Answer: seraph What do you call many cherubs? Answer: cherub[im] seraph[im]. Elohim is plural but when it is used can be translated in the singular. Just like "God". It really means, "godS". But just like the Trinity we say "God". Singular. The rest I'll leave for another topic.

[@golddiamond7440]

+preto shohmoofc guy You wrote: "Hebrew 1:8 DOES exist in Greek manuscripts. That's a lie.". When did I say that Hebrews 1:8 does not exist in Greek manuscripts??. It seems that you are not paying attention when you read. I said that the phrase "but unto the Son HE SAYS" as it appears in English bibles DO NOT exist in Greek manuscripts. The words "he says" was deliberately ADDED by the translators to make it look like as if God is calling Son "Capital-G" God. You also wrote: "And the Father has a God when he declared his Son to Be God". What!. Almighty Father "has a God" ??. One thing I can tell you that you are Not Trinitarian, if you claiming to be. In Trinitarian doctrine, only Son [Jesus] has a God [as a man, as they say] and Not Father. To say that "Father has a God" denotes that there is a power which is higher than Father. Again, it is your wrong reasoning that is unable to see that God is NOT the speaker in Hebrew 1:8 [which is a quotation of Psalm 45:6]. Psalm 45:6 is believed by some to be written by King David (some think it was written by Solomon). But the person who wrote Psalm 45:6 is the speaker who says in Psalm 45:6-7 "Your throne, God [Elohim], is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God [Elohim], Your God [Eloheka], has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your fellows". Here it is clear that someone is getting "anointed", because "he loved righteousness and hated wickedness". This is a clear reference to the Messiah (not Almighty God). I wrote to you before that in the Bible the word "elohim" can mean "gods", "God", "god" and it is used of "angels" and "men", it is also used for a "single" pagan deities in the Old Testament (See: 1 Kings 11:5, Judges 11:24, 2 Kings 1:2). Also, one has to consider the "context" and the "verb" [whether singular or plural] to properly translate the word "elohim". Notice, a single person "Moses" in exodus 4:16 and 7:1 is called "elohim". Now, would this make Moses "Almighty God" since he is called "elohim" ?. You are trying to ignore the fact that in the Hebrew culture, anyone who has been given great authority by God to represent Him was called "elohim", meaning "god" (Psalm 82:1,6). Even Jesus claimed to be "god" NOT "Almighty God" in John 10:34, where he quoted Psalm 82:6, where Judges of Isarel were called "gods" and "Sons of God". Each of those human Judge were "god" and collectively they were "gods" functioning as "representatives" of God. You have an interpretation of Hebrews 1:8, where you have literally "Two Gods", and One God anoints other God, because the other God [Jesus] "loved righteousness and hated wickedness". Sadly this sounds pure paganism. God DID NOT anoint God or Himself!. Again I say, that this passage is about the Messiah [who can be called "god" or "elohim" in the Hebrew culture] who "loved righteousness and hated wickedness" and was consequently "anointed" by Almighty God to function as Lord Messiah. Acts 10:38 states: "GOD ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, BECAUSE GOD WAS WITH HIM". God anointed Jesus of Nazareth [as fulfillment to the prophecy found in Psalm 45:6-7]. The notion as if Capital-G God anointed other Capital-G God is really absurd. Please don't twist and divert what is being discussed about John 4:22 in an attempt to escape the fact that Jesus tells plainly to the Samaritan women that "WE [including himself] WORSHIP whom we know". You say that subject of John 4:22 was Jewish nation. So is Jesus not part of the Jewish nation?, is he not King of the Jews?. Jesus "includes" himself with his brethren [Jews] by saying that "We" know whom we worship. In the same way Jesus says in John 3:11 to Nicodemus: "Very truly I tell you, WE [including himself with others] speak of what WE know, and we testify to what WE have seen.." As Jesus "worships" Father in spirit and truth, he desires everyone to worship Father in spirit and truth (John 4:24). The fact that Jesus calls Father "God" with his own mouth [both before and after resurrection] is of No significance to you?. All those verses that I gave you and many other verses in the Bible where Father is Jesus' God is of no significance to you?. Common sense dictates that anyone [including Jesus] who understand and believe that there is a higher power or supreme being who is above all that exist will call that power or being "God", an object of praise and worship. Jesus calls Father "God". Trinitarianism has blinded many people to this simple thing. In 1 Corinthians 8:6, "ONLY" the Father is being spoken as "God". It states: "...to us there is One God, THE FATHER..". Jesus is "Lord" in 1 Corinthian 8:6, because God "MADE" him to be Lord and Messiah (See Acts 2:36). Shema of Israel is about the Oneness of God, and only the Father is being spoken as God of Jesus and God of all. Jesus is the Son of God and representative of God, who can be called "god" in Hebrew culture, but NOT Almighty God. I hope that you will realize sooner or later that the things that you believed about Jesus and nature of God were all based upon wrong interpretation and assumptions.

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

Gold Diamond A. You said to me and I quote: "the phrase "But about the Son he says" as it appear in bible in Hebrew 1:8 DOES NOT exist in Greek manuscripts. This is deliberately added by the translators to make it look as if "God" is directly saying these things about Jesus, and calling him "Capital-G God". " End quote. But you've been lied to. The phrase But unto the Son he says, " IS IN THE MANUSCRIPTS and I will prove it. This is The Codex Sinaiticus one of the oldest and complete Manuscripts that we have in existence and * λεγει "He says"."he says," ειπεν * are present in the Manuscript. It starts in vs. 5 and continues on right into vs. 13. From vs. 5 to vs. 13 the author of Hebrews has included quotes from the Father. codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=46&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&verse=8&zoomSlider=1 So you have been lied to!! B. The phrase a) "he says," ειπεν is present in Vs 5. b) And continues on in vs 6 λεγει "He says". c) Vs. 7 has it as well, λεγει "He says". The opening of Vs. 8 is a continuation of thought from the Father. This is why most translations have Vs 5-13 in "quotations." The author of Hebrews does not put his words in quotations because he is the author and not speaking about another. He is the one who is giving his commentary. And when he quotes the Father, it is in quotations. Get out of the Greek you have no clue what you're talking about!!! ======================== *2.* you said, Psalm 45:6 is believed to be written by King David (some think it was written by Solomon). " End quote. Too bad!! The Father IS applying this to the Son. And the Father is STILL CALLING HIM GOD!!! So the Father calls him God!! The Father has a God too!! But here is where I kill your argument. Heb 1:10 IS a quote from Psalms 102:27 and it ISN'T talking about anyone other than Yahweh God! And the Father calls the Son here in vs. 10 ""Lord". Heb 1:10 "You Lord, In the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands.." This is a quote from the Septuagint and "You Lord" is not present in the Text in Psalms 102:27 LXX. Heb 1:10 is in quotations so it is the Father speaking. So not only does the Father call the Son "God" but he also calls him, "Lord". =========================== *.3.* You said, Even Jesus claimed to be "god" NOT "Almighty God" in John 10:34, where he quoted Psalm 82:6, where Judges of Isarel were called "gods" Ready to get spanked? If you read John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, *"Has it not been written in your ((((( *Law* )))) I said you are gods?"* News flash! the Psalms are *NOT A BOOK OF THE LAW*. To Torah which means (5 books of the law.) are. When Jesus was quoting Psalms 82:6 he may have been quoting it, but he was talking about Deut 19:17-18. Deut 19:17-18 "then both the men who have the dispute shall *STAND BEFORE YAHWEH*... The Book Deuteronomy is Greek and means "The 5th book of the Law." Deut 19:17-18 is talking about those very same Judges who stand in place as Yahweh to judge the people. So when they are being called "gods" in Psalms 82:6 they are REALLY being called "Yahwehs". And if you read the context of Psalms 82 it is talking about those Judges who have misused their judgment upon the people of Israel. This is why it reads.. Psalms 82:6-7 "I said, "You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High, *NEVERTHELESS YOU WILL DIE LIKE MEN AND FALL LIKE ANY OF THE PRINCES."* ======================== Jesus was using a scripture verse which talked about false judges to counter the Jews in John 10:31. ======================= He was calling them "false judges i.e Yahwehs". Because they didn't believe him. Nothing more. *Now I will give you the reason why they picked up stones to kill Jesus.* Because Jesus in John 10:28-30 was calling himself The Almighty God!! In vs 28 Jesus quotes Deut 32:39 which is talking about Yahweh and applies it to BOTH the Father AND HIMSELF!! John 10:28-29 "And *I give eternal life* to them, and they will never perish ; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all, and *no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."* Jesus is quoting Deut 32:39 and is including himself into this Yahweh quote. Deut 32:39 "See now that I, Iam he, and there is *no god besides me,* It is I who put to death and *GIVE LIFE* (Jesus applied this to himself in vs. 28). I have wounded and it is I who heal, *AND THERE IS NO ONE WHO CAN DELIVER FROM MY HAND.* " Jesus here is taking credit for giving Life and that no one can take them out of his hand included!! This isn't taking about David or Solomon Pal!!! This is Yahweh God!! And this verse is telling you that there is no God other then him!!! This is why Jesus then completes quoting Deut 32:39 by saying in vs. 10 "The Father and I are ONE." This is why the Jews picked up stones to kill him!! For claiming to by YAHWEH GOD!

[@julietgrant62]

2Sam 7:12-16 "When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men, By my mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, who I removed from before you. And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever." Psalms 89:24-28 "My faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him, and in My name his horn shall be exalted .Also I will set his hand over the sea, and his right hand over the rivers, He shall cry to me, You are my father, My God and the rock of my salvation. And I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth." This is prophecy of the coming messiah/Jesus in the OT.

[@grahmedmisten231]

thank you sister in the midst of this comment section

[@dontheman7093]

If the trinity is real why then were early believers forced to either accept this new manmade doctrine of the trinity and convert to the catholic religion and if they did not they were called madman, heretics. They were cast out of their churches, persecuted and sometimes killed?

[@amaimonmoore4498]

False.

[@AstariahJW]

@@amaimonmoore4498 you have no clue what Christendom have done in the name of there God They have influenced many killings to anyone who taught against there traditions of men. Like the trinity dogma

[@Apostolicfaith238]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” - Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) “Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.” - Isaiah 12:2 (KJV) “And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.” - Isaiah 25:9 (KJV) Isaiah 43 (KJV) ¹⁰ Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ¹¹ I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Isaiah 45 (KJV) ²¹ Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. ²² Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. “For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.” - Isaiah 54:5 (KJV) Psalms 22 (KJV) ¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. ¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. ¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” - Zechariah 12:10 (KJV) “And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.” - Isaiah 59:16 (KJV) “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” - Micah 5:2 (KJV) “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,” - Luke 1:68 (KJV) John 1 (KJV) ¹ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ¹⁴ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “I and my Father are one.” - John 10:30 (KJV) “And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” - John 12:45 (KJV) John 14 (KJV) ⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ⁷ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. ⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” - John 8:58 (KJV) “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” - 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV) “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” - 2 Corinthians 4:6 (KJV) “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” - 2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV) Colossians 1 (KJV) ¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: ¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” - Hebrews 1:3 (KJV) “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” - Colossians 2:9 (KJV) “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” - 1 John 3:16 (KJV) “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” - Acts 20:28 (KJV) “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” - 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” - Matthew 28:19 (KJV) “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” - Luke 24:47 (KJV) “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” - Acts 2:38 (KJV) “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” - Acts 4:12 (KJV) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” - Acts 8:12 (KJV) “(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)” - Acts 8:16 (KJV) “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” - Acts 10:48 (KJV) “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” - Acts 19:5 (KJV) “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” - Acts 22:16 (KJV) “I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” - Isaiah 45:23 (KJV) “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” - Romans 14:11 (KJV) Philippians 2 (KJV) ¹⁰ That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; ¹¹ And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[@hopelives9307]

A fantastic and Lively debate.

[@lesliedalehicks8417]

no one has seen GOD.

[@hopelives9307]

lesliedale Hicks ?

[@OurHumbleLife]

lesliedale Hicks This is true. The NT tells us that no human has seen GOD, ever.... and GOD Himself has told us in Exodus, that NO ONE can see Him and live! This is one reason GOD sent His *son*.

[@hopelives9307]

OurHumbleLife I must have missed something here. Who says they seen God in this video?

[@OurHumbleLife]

I have no idea....why?

[@Janice-d-witnessing]

This was fantastic!

[@GetMooreProductions]

ONCE again Dr. Michael Brown / Dr. James White crushes them.... Just use the WORD it clearly explains that Yeshua was in the beginning... YES it is complex BUT the word explains it. : In the beginning was the word the word was with God and the word was God.

[@2fast2block]

+GetMooreProductions You, "In the beginning was the word" and "the word was with God and the word was God." Ok, let's use your "logic" with the trinity way. In the beginning was God the Son. and God the Son was with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Makes no sense to me, does it to you? It must because you said, "Just use the WORD it clearly explains that Yeshua was in the beginning... YES it is complex BUT the word explains it. : " Let's try another trinity way: It the beginning was God the Son, and God the Son was with God the Father, and God the Son was God the Father. For me, 2 Tim 2:15 says we should have no need to be ashamed of our study of God's word. What trinitarians do is shameful to me for such "study". But you're happy with it. That is why three 100% gods to you only make one god. It is shameful to be so illogical but not to you.

[@GetMooreProductions]

What i can't understand the logic if God said you shall have no others GOD besides me, YET Unitarians believe it's ok to pray to YESHUA. and he's just the messiah and slightly under God... How is that logical?? How is that not worship?? Okay here's one for you God said: Let's make man in our own image, who was he speaking to? In Rev when he said: i am the alpha the omega which was which is to come. Yet that whole passage is about Yeshua coming to earth to rule again - He said which was / which was is a past tense. I love how ppl try to box God, how can he not come into his own creation? He's God he can do whatever he wants. Your logic makes no sense at all... We have one God / his holy spirit / Yeshua manifested into man. YET still ONE, And i find it funny how the bible says shall cling to a wife and become one flesh yet there's still 2 ppl. Then you tell God NOPE you cant do that and be complex... Let the scripture speak for itself. I said word as in scripture in one part and then word as in Yeshua the 2nd part.

[@2fast2block]

+GetMooreProductions Look, if you want an exchange, don't ignore what you brought up and I responded to. I'll repeat what was said below. Deal with it or have a one-way conversation with yourself. You got nailed on your logic that YOU brought up about the beginning of John, the trinitarian go-to verses. Now that you're nailed on that, you want to jump to other verses. Remember you said, "Just use the WORD it clearly explains that Yeshua was in the beginning... YES it is complex BUT the word explains it. : In the beginning was the word the word was with God and the word was God."' No, your trinity does not explain it. As I just shown it shows how foolish your formula is. Notice you didn't care. You don't care about things not fitting and being not logical. Why do you keep on pretending to want to use reason when you clearly have no regard for reasoning? You have no problem even with your conclusion of three 100% gods equalling one. It is impossible to be logical with illogical people such as yourself. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2fast2block 23 hours ago +GetMooreProductions You, "In the beginning was the word" and "the word was with God and the word was God." Ok, let's use your "logic" with the trinity way. In the beginning was God the Son. and God the Son was with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Makes no sense to me, does it to you? It must because you said, "Just use the WORD it clearly explains that Yeshua was in the beginning... YES it is complex BUT the word explains it. : " Let's try another trinity way: It the beginning was God the Son, and God the Son was with God the Father, and God the Son was God the Father. For me, 2 Tim 2:15 says we should have no need to be ashamed of our study of God's word. What trinitarians do is shameful to me for such "study". But you're happy with it. That is why three 100% gods to you only make one god. It is shameful to be so illogical but not to you.

[@GetMooreProductions]

So your logic of understanding is very limited. YOU think you nailed me b/c you replaces the WORD with son. So therefore you got me? This is coming from a mans understanding that it's okay to pray to Yeshua just as a messiah. HOLD UP! what about the other Mashiach's in the bible y not pray to them??? B/c it's idolatry, that's y. Your understanding of scripture is one eye closed (as Dr. White) would say... LISTEN i don't even have to use the word trinity at all to understand the levels God has presented himself. At this point your talking in circles. I pray that your salvation isn't on the line here...

[@2fast2block]

+GetMooreProductions You, "So your logic of understanding is very limited. YOU think you nailed me b/c you replaces the WORD with son. So therefore you got me?" Oh, so it wasn't the god the son? Look if you can't even argue, at least be honest. If you don't like what the trinity formula does, don't blame me for showing the reality of it. You, "Your understanding of scripture is one eye closed (as Dr. White) would say.." You're the one that closed both eyes to what you brought up and your trinity formula doesn't make sense in where you said does. You're like all trinitarians, nail them on the verse(s) they bring up, and they immediately want to bring up other topics and verses to distract from their foolishness of what they got nailed on in their previous "proof". You, " At this point your talking in circles." No, what I showed you about your first John and how you said to read it, is a foolish circle. You wish to accuse me of what you're doing. You, "I pray that your salvation isn't on the line here... " Why would it be? I believe in one true God. You believe in three. You can't even be honest enough to admit that three 100% gods are three 100% gods, not one. I keep saying, it is impossible to be logical with people who have a love for being illogical. Your "study" yields an impossible conclusion. Live with it. You accepted it, not me.

[@mynameis......23]

50:08 52:40 the Unitarian man is wrong he said "only two times Jesus is called God". Let me Tell you it's actually 6 times = John 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 peter 1:1, John 1:1, Isaiah 9:6 Hebrews 1:8, Jesus is also called Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:17-18

[@mynameis......23]

44:24

[@alekjwrgnwekfgn]

When the Unitarian referenced the Talmud 17:40 he lost all credibility and the debate. And then the Jew on the trinitarian side referenced it at 25:20. I just turned it off then, I’m not listening to any of these people. Let the Holy Spirit be your teacher.

[@christusomnipotens3751]

Matt. 28:19 debate over.

[@rowancele6977]

Matthew 28:19 The name of the father, son and Holy Ghost. That's not a name, those are titles. Matthew 28:19 is fulfilled in Acts 2:38. I'm a father, son and husband but that's not my name. The name of The Father, son and Holy Ghost is Jesus!!!!

[@matthaschanged]

@@rowancele6977 Modalism

[@gimel77]

Jesus did not speak the formula in Matthew 28:19. It was added later. If you look at the book of Acts, the apostles baptized in Jesus' name, not the titles. This shows that they were completely unaware of the formula supposedly spoken by Jesus. The historian Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 differently and it doesn't include the titles. What Jesus told them was to go and teach all nations. He didn't say anything about baptism.

[@JESUS-IS-TRUTH]

1 John 4:1-3 [1]Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [2]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[@stephendurden]

What I find most interesting about this debate is the only Jewish person in this debate isn’t the one who acted the most “Jewish” 🤦‍♂️

[@christopher19894]

A triangle is one shape, consisting of three sides. One to the power of three is one. God is one word, consisting of three letters.

[@nejckotnik]

I died laughing at 56:30 xD Great job!

[@НатанаилСталев-ф2р]

I'm a born again Christian (John 3:3)! And the Holy Spirit show me this...(Genesis 1:26) God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit! Man: spirit, soul and body! So the spirit is not soul and the soul is not the body, but they are part of one being (man)! Unfortunately, most "Christians" are not true Christians (Christ's followers) and therefore do not understand the Creator of all visible and invisible the Triune God Elohim (Yahweh) because they do not know that man is also a triune! So the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, but they are part of one being (God)! Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5)! God bless you all!!!

[@logicalcomrade7606]

It was not the Holy Spirit that showed you that! That is Greek philosophy, that is trichotomy. It is not a Biblical understanding. Back when I was certain of the trinity, my fellow trinitarians and I viewed trichotomy as heresy.

[@НатанаилСталев-ф2р]

@@logicalcomrade7606 EXPLAIN John 1:1, Jeremeiah 23:5,6, Isaiah 48:16, EXODUS 24:10, GENESIS 19:24 HEBREWS 1:8-10, REVELATION 1:7-18, 22:6-16......????????????!!!!!!!!!!! Are you a PHARISEE or worst in some sect as JW's????? (John 8:24) Lord JESUS (EL ELYON) bless all of HIS sheep in this EVIL world! Shalom.

[@НатанаилСталев-ф2р]

From Brother Christopher Asher: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” - Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) “Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.” - Isaiah 12:2 (KJV) “And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.” - Isaiah 25:9 (KJV) Isaiah 43 (KJV) ¹⁰ Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ¹¹ I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Isaiah 45 (KJV) ²¹ Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. ²² Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. “For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.” - Isaiah 54:5 (KJV) Psalms 22 (KJV) ¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. ¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. ¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” - Zechariah 12:10 (KJV) “And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.” - Isaiah 59:16 (KJV) “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” - Micah 5:2 (KJV) “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,” - Luke 1:68 (KJV) John 1 (KJV) ¹ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ¹⁴ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “I and my Father are one.” - John 10:30 (KJV) “And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” - John 12:45 (KJV) John 14 (KJV) ⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ⁷ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. ⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” - John 8:58 (KJV) “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” - 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV) “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” - 2 Corinthians 4:6 (KJV) “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” - 2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV) Colossians 1 (KJV) ¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: ¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” - Hebrews 1:3 (KJV) “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” - Colossians 2:9 (KJV) “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” - 1 John 3:16 (KJV) “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” - Acts 20:28 (KJV) “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” - 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” - Matthew 28:19 (KJV) “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” - Luke 24:47 (KJV) “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” - Acts 2:38 (KJV) “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” - Acts 4:12 (KJV) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” - Acts 8:12 (KJV) “(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)” - Acts 8:16 (KJV) “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” - Acts 10:48 (KJV) “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” - Acts 19:5 (KJV) “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” - Acts 22:16 (KJV) “I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” - Isaiah 45:23 (KJV) “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” - Romans 14:11 (KJV) Philippians 2 (KJV) ¹⁰ That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; ¹¹ And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[@tadm123]

Yahweh manifested himself in the form of a man on Genesis 18. Why do people have such a problem of God who is all powerful manifesting himself in the form of a man, Yeshua?

[@jawnatutorow]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man that he should repent. No one has seen God at any time John 1 Genesis 18 when studied in Hebrew calls that verse a 'mark of accusative' not saying there are two YHWHs (because Deut 6:5 is quite clear there is only one) but two ways of saying the same thing.

[@kevohmistari]

There's nothing like God the Son. There's only the Son of God.

[@fredrolinners8903]

The son of God (John 20:31) is God (John 20:28).

[@Uenbg]

I find this article more interesting than this debate (let's see if copy-paste works): The Apologists-Christian Defenders or Would-Be Philosophers? INCEST, child murder, cannibalism-these were some of the absurd charges leveled against Christians in the second century C.E. This led to such a wave of persecution that professed Christian writers felt obliged to defend their faith. Later known as the apologists, or defenders of their beliefs, these writers set out to prove that their religion was harmless so as to win over the Roman authorities and public opinion. It was a risky undertaking, for the empire and public opinion were usually appeased only by giving in to them. There was also a real danger of stirring up more persecution or of watering down the Christian faith by unwarranted compromises. Just how did the apologists defend their faith? What arguments did they use? And what were the results of their efforts? The Apologists and the Roman Empire The apologists were educated men from the second and early third centuries. The most famous among them were Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian.* Their writings were principally addressed to pagans and the Roman authorities, with the intention of explaining the Christian faith, and included frequent references to the Bible. Above all, the apologists stood up against the persecutors, denied their accusations, and presented the Christians in a favorable light. One of the apologists’ major concerns was to convince the political authorities that Christians were not enemies of the emperor or the empire. Tertullian said of the emperor that “our God has appointed him,” and Athenagoras defended the hereditary nature of the imperial throne, thus getting involved in the politics of the time. In so doing, they ignored the words of Jesus Christ, who said: “My kingdom is no part of this world.”-John 18:36. The apologists also suggested links between Rome and the Christian religion. According to Melito, the two entities formed a pair and contributed to the welfare of the empire. The anonymous writer of The Epistle to Diognetus likened Christians to the soul that was ‘holding the world together.’ And Tertullian wrote that Christians prayed for the prosperity of the empire and for the end of the system of things to be put off until later. As a result, the coming of God’s Kingdom somehow seemed less necessary.-Matthew 6:9, 10. “Christianity” Becomes a Philosophy The philosopher Celsus mockingly described Christians as “labourers, shoemakers, farmers, the most uninformed and clownish of men.” This mockery was too much for the apologists to bear. They determined to win over public opinion by resorting to a new tactic. Once rejected, worldly wisdom was now used in the service of the “Christian” cause. Clement of Alexandria, for example, saw philosophy as “true theology.” Justin, though claiming to reject pagan philosophy, was the first to use philosophical language and concepts to express “Christian” ideas, considering this type of philosophy “to be safe and profitable.” From this point on, the strategy was, not to oppose philosophy, but to make supposed Christian thought a philosophy higher than that of the pagans. “On some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honour, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching,” wrote Justin. Adorned with its new philosophical finery, “Christian” thought now claimed the dignity of old age. The apologists pointed out that Christian books were far older than those of the Greeks and that the prophets of the Bible lived earlier than Greek philosophers. Certain apologists even concluded that the philosophers copied from the prophets. Plato was made out to be a disciple of Moses! Christianity Distorted This new strategy led to a mixture of Christianity and pagan philosophy. Comparisons were made between Greek gods and Bible characters. Jesus was compared to Perseus; and Mary’s conception to that of Perseus’ mother, Danaë, who was said to be also a virgin. Certain teachings were greatly modified. For example, in the Bible, Jesus is called “the Logos,” meaning God’s “Word,” or Spokesman. (John 1:1-3, 14-18; Revelation 19:11-13) Very early on, this teaching was distorted by Justin, who like a philosopher played on the two possible meanings of the Greek word logos: “word” and “reason.” Christians, he said, received the word in the person of Christ himself. However, logos in the sense of reason is found in every man, including pagans. Thus, he concluded, those who live in harmony with reason are Christians, even those who claimed or were thought to be atheists, like Socrates and others. Moreover, by forcing the tie between Jesus and the logos of Greek philosophy, which was closely linked with the person of God, the apologists, including Tertullian, embarked on a course that eventually led Christianity to the Trinity dogma.* The word “soul” appears over 850 times in the Bible, including more than 100 times in its Greek form. It basically refers to mortal, living creatures, either human or animal. (1 Corinthians 15:45; James 5:20; Revelation 16:3) The apologists, however, twisted this Bible teaching by linking it with Plato’s philosophy that the soul is separate from the body, invisible and immortal. Minucius Felix even asserted that belief in the resurrection had its early beginnings in Pythagoras’ teaching of the transmigration of the soul. How far Greek influence had led them from the teachings of the Bible! The Wrong Choice Some apologists sensed the danger that philosophy could pose to the Christian faith. Yet, even though they criticized the philosophers, they still loved the intellectual approach of philosophy. Tatian, for example, denounced the philosophers for accomplishing nothing good but, at the same time, called the Christian religion “our philosophy” and indulged in philosophical speculations. Tertullian on the one hand decried the influence of pagan philosophy on Christian thinking. On the other hand, he stated that he wanted to follow in the steps of “Justin, philosopher and martyr; Miltiades, the sophist of the churches,” and others. Athenagoras called himself “a Christian philosopher of Athens.” As for Clement, it is said that he felt that “philosophy can be judiciously used by the Christian as an aid to wisdom and the defense of the faith.” Whatever success these apologists might have had in defending their faith, they had nonetheless committed a serious error in their defense. How so? The apostle Paul reminded Christians that among the spiritual weapons at their disposal, none is more potent than “the word of God,” which “is alive and exerts power.” With it, Paul said, “we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God.”-Hebrews 4:12; 2 Corinthians 10:4, 5; Ephesians 6:17. On the night before he was killed, Jesus told his disciples: “Take courage! I have conquered the world.” (John 16:33) The trials and tribulations that he experienced in the world had not overcome his faith and his loyalty to his Father. Similarly, the last surviving apostle, John, wrote: “This is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.” (1 John 5:4) Although the apologists wanted to defend the Christian faith, they made the wrong choice in adopting the ideas and the approach of worldly philosophy. In so doing, the apologists allowed themselves to be seduced by such philosophies and, in effect, allowed the world to conquer them and their brand of Christianity. So rather than being champions and defenders of true Christian faith, the apologists of the early church, perhaps unwittingly, fell into the trap set by Satan, who “keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.”-2 Corinthians 11:14. The clergy and theologians of the churches today have largely followed in the same path. Instead of defending true Christianity by using God’s Word, they often downgrade the Bible and resort to worldly philosophy in their teaching in an effort to win over public opinion and the establishment. Rather than sounding a warning against the dangers of following the unscriptural trends of the world, they have become teachers who do their best to ‘tickle the ears’ of their listeners in order to win adherents. (2 Timothy 4:3) Sadly, as did the early apologists, these teachers have ignored the apostolic warning: “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.” And we are reminded that “their end shall be according to their works.”-Colossians 2:8; 2 Corinthians 11:15. [Footnotes] There were also Quadratus, Aristides, Tatian, Apollinaris, Athenagoras, Theophilus, Melito, Minucius Felix, and other lesser-known writers. See The Watchtower of May 15, 2003, pages 27-29, and March 15, 1996, pages 28-30. For further information on Tertullian’s beliefs, see The Watchtower of May 15, 2002, pages 29-31.

[@aureliaphilosophyofyum]

oh boy... 1:04:00 "The Holy Spirit isn't God because He was never worshipped" but when alllll the clear scriptural evidence for Jesus being worshipped is presented, it doesn't count? 🤔 May God have mercy on them and open their eyes...

[@saulpaul7263]

Trinitarians- 1 Unitarians- 0

[@theway4660]

Trinitarians 3.....Unitarians 1 God of Israel, Creator... Father and 1 Messiah .....

[@nb3500]

Saul Paul Not really.

[@23Fulani]

Darryl Williams 3-3

[@tylerchua929]

Saul Paul Actually, you should read Isaiah 9:6 that proves that Jesus is God

[@Skipadyboi]

Unitarianism is more assumed, Trinitarianism is more proved with the text

[@raffygatal7639]

wow..great debate but trinitarian side absolutely win this debate they have good argument and answers.

[@2fast2block]

+raffy gatal Yeah, three 100% gods somehow equal one. To you, that is a good conclusion to the argument. Amazing.

[@raffygatal7639]

+2fast2block keep rid of it dude..cause you can't accept you're stand always been defeated and don't be assumed to us and forcing to us that we believed in three God's..we just only believe in one yet exist in three person..Father, Son and Holy Spirit..don't be desperate dude..common try to looked at the verses and understand it..☺☺☺

[@2fast2block]

+raffy gatal You, "we just only believe in one yet exist in three person..Father, Son and Holy Spirit..don't be desperate dude..common try to looked at the verses and understand it." Gee, I don't know what came over me. Of course! That explains it. They are not three gods, they are three persons. Like, you're a person, I'm a person and someone else is a person, yet, we're all one, like truly one. God is a person, spirit is a person, and the son is a person. Jesus was a person that died. So for three days, the other two persons had to work overtime until the 3rd person came back to being god. God the Father is a person. God the spirit is a person. You, ".common try to looked at the verses and understand it." What is funny is that you want me to believe you or anyone else is capable of understanding the trinity. You're only fooling yourself, not me.

[@raffygatal7639]

+2fast2block Ok if you don't try no one if forcing you simple as that..again, we believed in one God in three distinct person.

[@raffygatal7639]

+2fast2block for you're own seek. ok Question: "How is the doctrine of the Trinity not tritheism?" Answer: The doctrine of the Trinity is at the very center of the Christian faith. That God is triune in nature is affirmed not only in Scripture but also in the early ecumenical creeds of the church-specifically, Nicaea (A.D. 325) and Constantinople (A.D. 381). The doctrine is essentially that God is one in being while existing as three co-equal, co-eternal Persons, namely, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One often-heard objection to the Trinity is that the doctrine logically entails tritheism (a belief in three gods). But is this criticism valid? Is Trinitarian theology at odds with the clearly taught monotheism of the Hebrew Scriptures? Or did the early Christians get it right when they upheld the monotheism of the Old Testament while at the same time affirming the full deity of three distinct Persons? To answer this question, we need to look over the biblical data. The Bible clearly affirms that there is but one God (Isaiah 43:10; 1 Corinthians 8:4). In addition, the Bible teaches the deity of the Father (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2), the Son (John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:2; Titus 2:13; Colossians 1:16-17), and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). Moreover, the biblical writers go out of their way to affirm that all three Persons are distinct from each other (Matthew 28:19; Romans 15:30; 2 Corinthians 3:14). So, while it is true that the word trinity is not found in the Bible, the concept most certainly is. Does the fact that there exist three divine Persons entail that there exist three separate gods? The answer is no. The same Scriptures that affirm that all three Persons of the Trinity are divine also unequivocally affirm monotheism (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Timothy 2:5). So, what are we to do with this tension between the idea of three divine Persons and monotheism? A helpful clarification involves what we mean by the word person. PERSON can be defined as “a center of self-consciousness.” A person has a mind, emotions, and a will, can communicate with others, and is capable of performing actions. When we speak of the concept of personhood as it relates to the Trinity, we are describing self-distinctions in God. All three Persons of the one triune God possess the complete attributes of deity. All three Persons are truly divine, yet eternally distinct from one another. The divine Persons can and do communicate with each other (John 17:1-26; Hebrews 1:8-9). Essentially, God has three centers of self-consciousness. Yet this one Being (the triune God of Scripture) possesses one indivisible essence. There is only one Being that is God, and this one Being is tri-personal, with each of the three Persons having full possession of the divine nature.

[@Jxs1ah]

The amount of heresy I heard from the Unitarian side is insane 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@jewells2602]

Chill

[@Ancient-theology]

No one forced you to listen

[@niko4098]

dont burn him please.

[@SaintFort]

Trinitarians are the heretics by the standards of 1st-century Christians.

[@kenamotlung3961]

@@SaintFort yours is an assertion not supported by evidence.

[@fellowshipharvard]

@22:30 well you have to utilize a Unitarian presupposition as you enter the New Testament because the Old Testament established a singular mindset of the person of God. Dr. White submits to us that the trinity was revealed in between the Testament therefore there's no need for a credal statement of the trinity in scripture but it allegedly permeates all of the New Testament. It seems pretty obvious that the presupposition of the trinity is read into and not out of scripture. Perhaps we should see Jesus as Paul puts it: "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" or maybe how Jesus himself put it: "The Father who lives in me he does his works."

[@johndear7607]

Jordan Gardner - Wrong, the trinity comes from scripture, Brown explained it best, but what the Trinitarian failure to say is those are just titles of God, for God is One.

[@christopherasher8410]

I am personally a oneness apostolic Christian and I would be happy to give some insight on what exactly a oneness apostolic pentecostal Christian believes and why they believe it. So an apostolic believes that the Holy Bible is the only source and authority for doctrine, and that all scripture as a whole must be taken into account as all scripture agrees with itself and is the only source that God has given us to know who He is, and what we must do and know in order to be saved- 2nd Timothy 2:15, 3:16-17, John 17:17. I'll be throwing in some scripture on these statements that way the reasoning for why is more easily understood. So, the first commandment and foundation of the Old Testament is "Hear O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord"- Deuteronomy 6:4. And the importance of knowing that commandment is pressed to God's people all the way through to verse 9 in that chapter. Here are some more Old Testament scriptures repeatedly confirming that God is one and is not a divisible or separate God, and that He will not give His glory to another- Deuteronomy 4:35, 4:39, 32:4, 1st Samuel 2:2, 1st Kings 8:60, 1st Chronicles 17:20, Psalm 86:10, Isaiah 9:6, 12:2, 25:9, 40:25, 41:4, 43:10-12, 43:15, 44:6, 45:5, 45:21-22, 46:9, Zechariah 14:9, Malachi 2:10. So as you can see, God's people we're taught that there is one God and never were they taught that there is three persons in one God, but simply one. I personally have nothing against any trinitarians, and can understand why a trinitarian would be quick to take offense and possibly lash out at what an apostolic pentecostal believes. Because it most definitely does go against trinitarian views of the Godhead, their idea of salvation, and how it is obtained. In fact I was a trinitarian when I first started reading the Bible (Obviously my views have changed) and was even baptized with the baptizer user the words "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". So why am I now apostolic? Well let's have a look at the maintaining of the concept of there being one God, the transition to the New Testament, the coming of Christ, who He is, and some of the prophecy's He fulfilled, such as Isaiah 9:6. Matthew 10:40, Mark 12:29, (John 1:1-3, 1:14), 1:18, 8:24-27, 8:58, 10:30, 12:44-45, 12:48, 14:6-7, 14:9, (14:16, 14:18), 17:5-6, 17:24, 17:26, 20:28, Acts 3:20, 20:28, Romans 8:9-11, 1st Corinthians 8:4, 8:6, 15:47, 2nd Corinthians 4:4, 4:6, 5:19, Ephesians 4:5-6, Philippians 2:6-8, Colossians 1:15-17, 2:9, 1st Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:1-3, James 2:19, 1st John 1:1-2, 5:7. This first set of scriptures is about who the "First and the Last" is in the Old Testament and who He is revealed to be in the New Testament- (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 1:17-18, 22:13) This is the prophecy about who every knee shall bow and every tongue confess to- (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10-11) So now I can cover the apostolic viewpoint on salvation and how it is obtained. We believe that repentance (turning away from the lifestyle of sin) is essential so that we can be led to our salvation - (Death) Matthew 3:2, 4:17, Mark 1:15, 6:12, Luke 13:3, 13:5, Acts 3:19, 17:30, 26:20, Revelation 3:3, 3:19. Apostolics believe that baptism is a necessary part of salvation, must be done in His name, and based on the scriptures is where the sins are washed away, and the blood of Jesus Christ is applied- (Burial) Matthew 3:14-15, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 10:47, Romans 6:3-7, Colossians 2:12, 1st Peter 3:20-21, (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38*), 2:41, 4:12, 8:12, 8:16, 10:48, 19:2-5, (22:16*), Colossians 3:17- Baptism is done in both word and deed. And we do believe that we must all be filled with the Holy Ghost also as part of salvation and that it is for everyone, and for all generations as long as we are on this earth, then of course the spiritual gifts will cease when we arent- (Resurrection) Matthew 3:11, Acts 2:38-39, Romans 8:9-11, 15:16, 1st Corinthians 6:11, 12:13, 2nd Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 3:27 Now based on scripture, the infilling of the Holy Ghost is seen and known with signs following, causing utterance, to speak, they spake, with a speaking of some sort being affiliated with the Holy Ghost. Not saying that all will speak with tongues all the time, seeing as different members of the body have different gifts, but that all will speak in another tongue initially as the sign given to all believers that they have received it. The evidence for this is overwhelming- Mark 12:36, 13:11, (16:17), Luke 1:41-42, 1:67, Acts 1:8, 1:16, (2:4), 4:8, 4:31, (10:44-46), 11:15, 13:2, (19:6), 20:23, 21:11, 28:25, 1st Corinthians 2:13, Hebrews 3:7, 2nd Peter 1:21, Jude 1:20. And believe in the essentiality of living a holy and separated lifestyle- Exodus 29:29, Leviticus 11:44-45, 19:2, 20:7, 20:26, 21:8, Numbers 15:40, Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2, 23:14, 26:19, Ephesians 1:4, Ephesians 5:27, Hebrews 12:14, 1st Peter 1:15-16, 2nd Peter 3:11. We do believe that upon the revelation of who God is that He will build His church, and that He is the one that gives the revelation to the believer. Matthew 11:27, 16:13-18. So yeah, apostolic pentecostals just simply believe in what the Bible teaches.

[@nox567]

It's funny how when you say God is one (which Trinitarians believe), you disagree with the Trinitarian standpoint and then go on to say that God will not give His glory to another. But if there is not Trinity, then that is exactly what God does, He gives His Glory to Jesus who is another, since Jesus will be served sitting next to the Father (Prophecy of Daniel, and in Revelation) which from a Unitarian perspective will already be a contradiction as God says no one can be worshipped beside Him, but that's exactly what He instructs us to do of Jesus. So from your perspective that still brings us to the same original issue, and we would have made God a liar. But from a Trinitarian standpoint, God being One and never giving His glory to anyone, even though He does exactly all that in the scripture; in Psalms when God says to Jesus "Your throne, O God, is forever", when in Daniel, He sits next to the Father and all will serve him, when Jesus expands on that an says all will honor the Son the same way they Honor the Father, then it seems to me concluding an ultimately Trinitarian standpoint

[@fatimaevardo2600]

I believed in Triune God.

[@Official_Sal_Gutierrez]

This was brutal, Dr. Brown and Dr. White absolutely destroyed this. Wow great job!!! I want to see them go up against the Oneness Pentecostal apologists that would be epic.

[@Jemimah-Esther]

You seem to have bit aggressive attitude saying: "I want to see them go against..." of course, it is good to defind the truth but just make sure you are in the truth, because otherwise you are in the wrong team...🙏 Some Jews also thought they were right coming against Jesus, but Jesus corrected them: John 8:38-47 NIV [38] I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” [39] “Abraham is our father,” they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. [40] As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. [41] You are doing the works of your own father.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.” [42] Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. [43] Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. [44] You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [45] Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [46] Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? [47] Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” bible.com/bible/111/jhn.8.38-47.NIV

[@TylerTheObserver]

Wait I'm confused The guy with the mustache says about unitarians worshiping the flesh. But unitarians don't worship flesh they worship God I.e the father. Isn't it trinitarians who worship the son and view him as God in the flesh?

[@denver72091]

The only question I have after watching this is, how did Dr White and Brown sit there so patiently after winning the debate halfway through this first part of the debate?

[@melchisedecsomba8237]

The day Michael Brown shaves his mustache is the day Christ will return

[@mstrainjr]

I was raised a Lutheran until I was 12, then a Baptist until I was 22. I started studying New Testament Greek in high school and after a time began to see things that didn't line up well with what my preacher was saying. When I asked my mom about these things, she'd get mad at me for doubting the faith. My argument is that you can't have much faith in a doctrine when the supposed basis of that doctrine doesn't line up with it. On my own, I found that when you look strictly at the Greek of the New Testament and stop relying upon certain translations and theologies, the Bible seems to have more evidence AGAINST the concept of Jesus being YHWH in the flesh rather than for. The problem is that most people calling themselves Christians would rather argue and be right than take the time to give it a serious look and possibly find out that they might be wrong.

[@mstrainjr]

That is so true! While I disagree with much of Islam, to be honest, many the points raised about Jesus by Muslims are actually quite true according to the Christians' own book. During the time that I was in the middle of studying how Jesus isn't really God, I came across a Muslim pamphlet that gently mocked Christians for not understanding their Bible while delivering some good arguments against Jesus' divinity that were inline with what I had already found. I think it's funny that Christians jump to John 1:1 and try to use poor, made-up grammatical rules (such as Colwell's rule, which doesn't always apply), when John himself says in 20:30-31 exactly the message that he was trying to say, that "Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name". He does not say that Jesus is God, but that he is the son of God. Paul argues that we can becomes sons of God as well by seeking to be like Jesus. When someone calls Jesus "good teacher", Jesus responds by telling him that no one is good except one: God. Paul opens many of his letters by mentioning "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ", which clearly separates them. Revelations opens by stating "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants..." Did God give himself something? Isn't it so obvious? But I can go on and on. I have found (to my dismay at first) that the arguments FOR Jesus' divinity as being God in the Flesh are quite weak compared to the arguments against it.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

“Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven” …..a lucky and blessed man you are. Be happy and thank God.

[@mstrainjr]

@ttff4444 Jesus never says to pray to him. He says to ask things in his name.

[@Minister-Peter-V1-Church]

​@@mstrainjr Then he says "I" will do it.

[@Minister-Peter-V1-Church]

​@@mstrainjr And it says "ask me" for anything in my name

[@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube]

I have no dog in this fight as I'm an agnostic. With that said, this was a slaughter. The Trinitarians won hands down.

[@1974jrod]

Nice to hear an honest answer from an agnostic!

[@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube]

Do you think agnostics are a bunch of liars or something? You're agnostic about a ton of things. Does that make you dishonest? Thanks.

[@emilialoza6129]

Hi! How's it going? I wanted to ask, what brought you to this debate video? :)

[@locoqueno]

Que refrescante encontrar material como este. Aprender sobre la grandeza y divinidad de Cristo en una conversación de este tipo. Ojalá puedan traducir esto al español para que más gente pueda aprender también.

[@eduardoinojosa1051]

Yo lo haré. Es poderoso.

[@genac74]

Thank you for putting this out there. Unitarianism is always assumed when using scripture when talking about the nature of God.

[@JJFrostMusic]

So is Trinitarianism, it's always assumed.

[@Thedisciplemike]

@@JJFrostMusic it's assumed when discerning scripture, not when discerning the authority of interpretation of scripture

[@r.rodriguez4991]

One big problem with this debate is it was completely loosided due to the fact that the trinitarians were harmonized in their beliefs but the unitarians clearly differed in significant ways. Imagine James White was paired with a modalist instead. That seems to be how the unitarian side was operating.

[@swissapologetics]

Ask 5 Uniterians who and what Jesus is, filling terms like "Son of God" with an explanation and you will propably get 5 different answers... very interesting in light of Eph 4

[@r.rodriguez4991]

@@swissapologetics Ask these two trinitarians whether Jesus died for all men or just the elect and you'll get two different answers. Very interesting in light of Ephesians 4, no?

[@BrandonClapp]

Sorry, but "This other smart person agrees with me" is not a sound argument.

[@Hosannafication]

this was and awesome debate. two of my favorite apologist working together. (cant get any better than that) its kinda annoying how the unitarians beat around the bush. they remind me of biblical pharasees. may the lord bless them.

[@mydailyvlogs777]

It's the other way around! For crying out loud!

[@trevormason3825]

The Unitarian gentleman directly left of the moderator is creating a straw man argument repeatedly.

[@leahjames6870]

What argument is that???

[@Norbingel]

People in the comments repeating things hashed out in the debate itself. No new or different arguments advanced. What's the point?

[@davidcoleman5860]

Over and over, both Brown and White refer to God as "complex in His unity." The word _complex_ means "composed of parts" which of course means that God is a composite being. This is rather curious because both Brown and White accuse the unitarians of "heresy" without apparently realizing that a composite Godhead is also considered heresy by the majority of Christians who affirm the doctrine of divine simplicity (DDS). If God (G) = Father (F), Son (S), and Holy Spirit (H) --- G = FSH --- then F ≠ G, S ≠ G and H ≠ G. Thus, each person (P) is _part_ of G. And even if this hurdle can be somehow overcome, it is then obvious the G is dependent on FSH for its actuation and conservation (G ----> FSH). Thus, G is logically posterior to FSH and is thereby dependent on something less than G in order to be G. All composites are assemblages of parts and are explained and defined by their parts, even if the parts are somehow eternal. Since God is not a second-order being, He cannot be a complex unity. In order to overcome the first objection, it is argued that each P shares the same essence (E) but is distinct in personality. But this equivocates on the definition of G. Clearly, S ≠ G in the first sense for that would identify S with the entire Godhead (which is something "complex" trinitarians reject). Thus, the E is something shared akin to species sharing whatever E they happen to belong to (3 trees, one tree essence), but that is clearly tritheism. For if each P instantiates the E, then 3P = 3G. So, the only way to salvage the Brown/White trinitarian approach is to fall back onto the "complex unity" position which locates the 3P in the one being of God. And that of course fractionalizes G (there is an aspect of G unique to each P). If it is argued that each part of our body is fully human (thus, enabling us to call each P fully G), it cannot be forgotten that though your spleen is fully human, it is not a full human. And it also cannot be forgotten that this acknowledges the ontological dependence of the whole upon the parts which gives the parts logical primacy. And we haven't even touched upon the problem of the impossibility of finite parts coordinating to an infinite whole. No assemblage of finite parts can constitute an infinite whole.

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

The mistake you've made is that you're trying to use logic to think, which is considered heretical and carnally minded by trinitarian theological standards.

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod, thought is not even possible without logic. No sense could be made of any word or sentence without relying on the principles of thought which are identity, contradiction and excluded middle. You couldn't have written your post without depending on logical principles to coherently convey your message. Logic is simply the study of coherent communication. And any proposal that is incoherent cannot be affirmed because it cannot be understood. You cannot consistently tell me that God is the ultimate being when your doctrine tells me that He isn't the ultimate being. You cannot consistently tell me that each person of the Godhead is fully God when your doctrine tells me that each person is fractionally God. That's nothing but static over the radio. Moreover, you are mistaken in the extreme about logic's being “considered heretical,” because trinitarian theologians and philosophers have defended logic since the beginning of church history. Christian ethics should dictate to you that it is sinful to allege as true something you're ignorant about. And to prove you're ignorant of the topic, quote me just one trinitarian church father who argued that logic is heretical. Just one. You will look in vain for that quote because it doesn't exist. The most common form of the doctrine of the Trinity is called “divine simplicity.” It was promulgated by the church fathers and systematized by Thomas Aquinas. Said doctrine is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church and several Protestant denominations. Aquinas relied heavily on Aristotle's metaphysics and the logical principles he identified and articulated in his writings. Regardless what you think about my beliefs, if you're serious about your Christianity, you need to quit asserting knowledge of things you know nothing about. Research a matter before you talk about it: _Proverbs 18_ _13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him_ .

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

@@davidcoleman5860 I'm not a Trinitarian. I agree that Trinitarianism contradicts not only Scripture but Logic itself.

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod Okay, I get where you're coming from now. Your initial post sounds a lot like the trinitarian trolls who will say anything and everything, including telling baldfaced lies, to defend the Trinity.

[@mydailyvlogs777]

As much as the Trinitarians blame the Unitarians of their assumptions..I see the trinitarians slightly more guilty than the unitarians!

[@brandonsantana5784]

Michael and James are a great team. I wanna see John MacArthur team up with someone

[@doomerquiet1909]

Like rc?🥺

[@kingswarriors243]

Let us make man in our image... that verse resonates with me... God entity is in the form of three distinct beings.. a very unique entity nothing like anything we know of

[@bramleycookingapple]

If the Holy Spirit is a person, what is the power of the Holy Spirit? Is not the power of the Holy Spirit another person? The same logic will continue ad infinitum. Is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all equal as three persons? 1 Cor 15:28 speaks of the inequality of Jesus. Jesus acknowledged that the power of God worked through him and the power was of God. How can a force, or power be a person? I can understand how things are personified in the Bible, but personification does not alter the reality that the thing personified is nothing more than the thing it is, which is an "it".

[@nb3500]

Kings Warriors When God or anyone else refers to themselves as "us" or "we" they are using what is properly called the majestic plural or the plural of majesty. It does not denote a plurality of persons it denotes a plurality of power, authority, and prestige.

[@nb3500]

Faisal Siraj I'm not a trinitarian but Islam is just a perversion of Christianity. It was created by an illiterate man who knew nothing about scripture (Muhammad) and who contradicted everything Yeshua HaMashiach said.

[@nb3500]

Faisal Siraj You know what I meant. Almost everything. Like I said before, I don't believe in the trinity and there is no greater foe to the doctrine of the trinity than the Bible. If don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he is our High Priest, the Messiah, and that he died for our sins, you have lost much intimacy with the one true God. Now I know it's not your fault (it's technically Muhammad's) but everyone has to come to the truth eventually. Ask yourself this: Did Muhammad believe Jesus is the Son of God? Did Muhammad believe Jesus is the Messiah? Did Muhammad believe that Jesus is our High Priest? Did Muhammad believe that Jesus died for our sins? Did Muhammad believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through him (John 14:6)? If the answer is no to one or all of these questions (it's all by the way), then Muhammad was a false prophet and an antichrist. Yeshua HaMashiach warned us of people like Muhammad: Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 7:15-20 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. What are Muhammad's fruits? Well lets see he raised up a group of people who early on invaded all of the Middle East, North Africa, the Iberian Peninsula, etc. Not to mention he contradicted the one true God and led billions away from the one true God. Not to mention the Apostle Paul warned us as well: 2 Corithians 11:3-4 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. I wish Muhammad would have read this one (if he could have read): Galatians 1:6-9 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we *or an angel from heaven* should preach to you any gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

[@nb3500]

Faisal Siraj So you get it now... :) I mean that's pretty bad when you have a man claiming to a prophet of God yet he contradicts all of the true prophets before him. If you need me to explain the Godhead or anything like that I would be happy to explain it.

[@antonioadajr1895]

Trinity cant find but it was expressly here: Tri + Unity = Trinity Tri = Three Unity = joined together to be come ONE 1John 5:7 KJV For there are three (TRI) that bear record in heaven, the (1) FATHER, (2) the WORD, and the (3) HOLY GHOST: and these three (TRI) are one (UNITED to become ONE) Father Word Holy Ghost ----------------- ONE (God) Trinity ONE GOD

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Antonio Ada Jr did you know that this is one of the only verses in the New Testament that is considered by almost everyone to be fake or 80-90% surely fake and added on possibly hundreds of years later? Seriously look it up, do a quick Google search it will take 5 minutes. Just type in 1 John 5:7 forgery. You can even find this on Wikipedia(Johannine Comma)

[@INRI_BIBLICAL_THEOLOGY]

youngknowledgeseeker Did you know that you are Wrong? 1 John 5:7 is scripture, to reject it is Heretical. Here's my proof that it's The Word of God. It is found in many texts along with it existing in Early Church Father quotations... • Prologue to Codex Fuldensis (6th Century, Oldest Latin Manuscript) •Codex Frisingensis (6th-7th Century Latin Manuscript) •Codex Legionensis (7th Century Latin Manuscript) •Traces in Syriac Peshitta (British Library, Add. 14470, 5th -6th Century) • Traces in Syriac Peshitta (British Library, Add. 14472, 6th -7th Century) •Traces in Syriac Peshitta (British Library, Add. 14473, 6th Century) •Traces in Syriac Peshitta (British Library, Add. 18812, 6th-7th Century) •Traces in Syriac Peshitta ( British Library, Add. 17115, 9th-10th Century) •Greek MS. Codex 61 (16th Century) •Greek Ms. Codex 918 (16th Century) •Greek Ms. Codex 2473 (17th Century) •Greek Ms. Codex 2318 (18th Century) It's also brought up by St. Jerome and Socrates of Constantinople that the First Epistle of John was corrupted by Heretics in their day Here's their quotes "Now in any event, he did not perceive that in the Catholic epistle of John it was written in the ancient copies, 'Every spirit that severs Jesus is not from God.' For the removal of this [passage] out the ancient copies are understandably by those who wished to sever the divinity from the human economy. And thus by the very language of the ancient interpreters, some have corrupted this epistle, aiming at severing the humanity from the divinity. But the humanity is united to the divinity, and are not two, but one. Knowing this, the ancients did not hesitate to call Mary 'Theotokos'." -Socrates of Constantinople (380-450AD), Ecclesiastical History, Origin of Nestorianism, Nicene and Post Nicene Father's Series 2, Vol. 2, Chapter 32, Page 171. "we read in the unity of the trinity is placed in the first epistle of John, where much error has occurred at the hands of unfaithful translators contrary to the truth of faith, who have kept just 'the three words WATER, BLOOD, AND SPIRIT IN THIS EDITION OMITTING MENTION OF FATHER, WORD, AND SPIRIT' in which especially the Catholic Faith is strengthened and the unity of substance of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is attested." -St. Jerome (March 27, 347 AD - September 30, 420 AD), "Jeromes' Prologue to the Canonical Epistle" (Jerome was the translator of the Latin Vulgate). These attestations from both Early Church Father's shows that people were corrupting 1 John, and specifically they corrupted 1 John 5:7 because they hated The Holy Trinity!!! Lastly it's quoted/alluded by •Athanasius (c. 296-373 AD) -Disputatio Contra Arium -Quaestiones Aliae •Origen (c. 184 - 253 AD) -Selecta in Psalmos •Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 329 - 390 AD) -Oration 45: The Second Oration on Easter, Chapter 30 •John Chrysostom (c. 349-407 AD) -Adversus Judaeos Homily 1:3 •Pseudo-Chrysostom -De Cognitione Dei et in Sancta Theophania •Zacharias Rhetor (Born c. 465 AD) -Disputatio De Mundi Opificio •Andrew of Crete (Born c. 635 AD) -Magnus Canon (Pg. 97, 1345) •John of Damascus (c. 675 - 749 AD) -Carmina et Cantica: In Dominicam Pascha •Ignatius of Antioch (c. 30-107 AD) -Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians, Page 81, Chapter 4, Longer Version, Ante Nicene Father's •Tertullian (c. 155-245 AD) -Against Praxeas, Ch.25, Page 621, Ante Nicene Father's, Volume 3 -On Baptism, Chapter 6, Page 672, Ante Nicene Father's •Cyprian of Antioch (c. 210-258 AD) -Treatise 1:6 Unity of the Church, Page 421, Ante Nicene Father's, Volume 5 • Phobadius (c. 359 AD) -Contra Arianna •Priscillian of Avilla (c. 380 AD) -Liber Apologeticus, 1.4 •St. Augustine ( 354 - 430 AD) -City of God, Book 5, Chapter 11, Page 93, Nicene and Post Nicene Father's Series 1, Volume 2 • Vigilius Tapsensis (c. 450 AD) -Contra Varimadum, Book 1, Chapter 5 -De Trinitate Libri Duodecim, Book 1 •Victor Vitensis (c. 485 AD) -Historia persecutionis Africanae Provinciae, Book 3, Chapter 11 •Fulgentius Ruspensis (died 527 AD) -Responsio Contra Arianos Libri Duo, Response 10 -Ad Felicem Notarium De Trinitate Liber Unus, Chapter 4 •Cassiodorus of Italy (c. 485 - 585 AD) -Complexiones In Epistollis Apostolorum, Epistolam S. Joannis ad Parthas, Chapter 10 To say that it's NOT scripture is Heresy! Plain and Simple! Go research the quotations yourself if you don't believe me. May God Almighty Guide you. Amen.

[@eliasarches2575]

youngknowledgeseeker you are right - that KJV rendering of 1 John 5:7 is not correct! Only a KJV-onlyist would think otherwise and they lack reasoning ability!

[@Maricarmjolo]

There are only 2 thrones. FATHER throne and Jesus on His right side.. I wonder where is the 3rd throne if there is 3 in one God?

[@sukka4pain]

@@Maricarmjolo Are you a binitarian?

[@dennismaher9533]

DR. BROWN + DR. WHITE are2 of the most brilliant Christian apologists of the last 100 years ...

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

but they teach doctrines contrary to christianity

[@Wezo6666]

whats stops us at 3 , why not 4 ,10

[@darsom2717]

41:30 this old gray haired biddy says "do your research first, don't put your stake in John, put your stake in Matthew". Okay: Matthew 1:23 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Jesus is God! Amen.

[@MikeJones-fb3sz]

If Jesus is god because he’s called Emmanuel then the prophet Elijah from the Old Testament is also god because his name means “god, Yahweh” in Hebrew

[@arold4928]

@@MikeJones-fb3sz Elijah means Yahwheh is my God

[@bsnundl]

Trinitheist is not monotheist. Idol worship seats better. Visit the churches and be witnesses by opening your eyes wide. Don't ask questions which shall be turned down with wide open eyes.

[@OurHumbleLife]

His very attributes showed him to be The son OF God,as he claimed, representing his Father, doing his father's will. Jesus does declare his father to be The ONE God and there is ONLY ONE God. Blessings to you.

[@andyayala5639]

Please someone define the word “person”

[@S3P7]

There's only 1 God and His name is Jesus Christ. He sent Himself as a servant to Himself as the father (Jesus's Soul). The name of the father, son, and holy spirit is Jesus Christ!

[@izzynut]

The trinity of the bible is a deity with multiple personality disorder?

[@davomato]

None of the Apostles said you have to believe in a trinity to be saved. nowhere in scripture does it mention a Trinity

[@n3rds3y3vi3w]

John 5:7 my brother

[@joyfrizzell1363]

Trinitarians win

[@kiwihans100]

To me the biggest objection to the 'trinity' is the denial of Jesus words at John 3:16 "God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son". If the 'trinity' of necessity must remain intact at all times then the 'Son' didnt entirely come to earth, his 'spiritual essence' was till part of the 'trinity'! Also The Father's supreme, self sacrificing love is nullified. He didnt really give up aanoything!. Yet John said "If this is how God loved us, we should love one another". It was all an illusion, a charade! Jesus didnt really pray to a 'Father' e.t.c!

[@goguvangogh]

I wonder how the Trinitarian universe would have looked like if 1 equaled 3😄 Besides that, what would be the point of talking about concepts like „father“ and „son“, if the father doesn't distinguish himself by nothing from the son? Reality, as I have experienced it, tells us that every father predates any son. But hey, that's just me... Maybe my father and I where both just hallucinating at my birth😀 Every hermeneutics that relies on previous hermeneutics stops being the proper understanding of God's Word and breaks down into fallacy.

[@leonardhunt5677]

There are reported to be two JHVH's: creators of Adam Genesis 2:7- Isaiah 45:11-12,Col. 1:17(John 1:3); Babel judges Genesis 19:24; before 10 commands Exodus 19.

[@JJFrostMusic]

Two, YHVH? You are pagan, please get saved