Trinitarians vs. Unitarians debate (2/2)

Dr. James White and Dr. Michael Brown debate two who reject both the deity and preexistence of Christ.
Some helpful videos:
'A Biblical Case for the Trinity in 5 minutes' : bit.ly/1TQ5awo
'The Trinity in a nutshell' : bit.ly/1Rnq0Q8
'Acts 2:38: Baptism for salvation? No!' : bit.ly/1ogIaIZ
'An Easy Way to Refute Oneness Pentecostalism' : bit.ly/1sGaDui
'The original Nicene Creed, modern translation with Scripture references' : bit.ly/1XGpajc
'Was the early church mostly oneness?' : bit.ly/20o6vdg
'A Brief History of Oneness Pentecostalism' : bit.ly/1TteUbh
'The apostle John was a Trinitarian' : bit.ly/1UBBF03
'Demonstrating the eternal Son from Scripture': bit.ly/1X6Ak4u
'Three persons in one context (verses)' : bit.ly/1UPK28f
'Does "Let Us Make Man" Prove the Trinity?' : bit.ly/1TUoFBw
'Debate: Trinity vs. Oneness (Smith vs. Ritchie)' : bit.ly/25uMkBi
Please support me and my ministry on Patreon: / trinityapologetics ANY amount would go a long way especially since I live in the Philippines. Even $1! And it's easy to sign up :-) I have plans to get married and enter full time ministry some day.

[@essammesihsalib3365]

I was a confident Unitarian Christian. But after seeing the full debate, part 1 and 2, I have come to the conclusion that the Trinitarian side is much more based on Scripture and is a lot more consistent to the original Greek and original Hebrew as opposed to the Unitarian side. Like Dr. Brown and Dr. White said: Unitarians are viewing scripture with one eye closed. Trinitarians have both of their eyes opened. Although I'm no longer a Unitarian, I wouldn't consider myself a Trinitarian yet. I will need to watch more debates, but this debate between Unitarians and Trinitarian is clear, to me personally: Unitarianism crumbles under Trinitarianism. You can disagree with me, but this is my conclusion after watching the debate. We all have different conclusions, and my conclusion is that Unitarianism isn't concistent as Trinitarianism is.

[@ETHANGELIST]

Praise God for your comment! Yes indeed there are so many very convincing, biblical arguments in favor of Trinitarianism. Did you watch this debate just recently? Please choose some of these videos of mine to watch: 'A Biblical Case for the Trinity in 5 minutes' : bit.ly/1TQ5awo 'The apostle John was a Trinitarian' : bit.ly/1UBBF03 'Demonstrating the eternal Son from Scripture': bit.ly/1X6Ak4u 'Three persons in one context (verses)' : bit.ly/1UPK28f 'Trinity proven from the Old Testament by Sam Shamoun' : bit.ly/1X9WrHi 'Does "Let Us Make Man" Prove the Trinity?' : bit.ly/1TUoFBw 'Jewish Trinitarians?' : bit.ly/29VHt12 'Lecture: The Third Person of The Trinity' : bit.ly/1Uc5Dbg 'The oneness of the Trinity' : bit.ly/2aZKYaZ 'Why Matthew 28:19 must prove the Trinity' : bit.ly/2dF5NZj 'Why 2 Corinthians 13:14 must prove the Trinity' : bit.ly/2mKZ3Nb 'The Trinity is One God and is Jewish (Dr. Nabeel Qureshi)' : bit.ly/2l5Dynu 'Debate: Trinity vs. Oneness (Smith vs. Ritchie)' : bit.ly/25uMkBi

[@essammesihsalib3365]

Trinity Apologetics I watched all of the debate today, as a matter of fact. I have actually decided to watch all of it again! It is just astounding to me, now, as an ex-Unitarian, how biblically strong and sound the Trinity is. Of course, my Unitarian leaders made many false claims about the Trinity, and I myself was influenced to disbelieve in the Trinity because of them, but, now, I can say, Unitarians are not following the scripture as it is presented. They read verses inconsistently and they misinterpret texts beyond imagination. If an ex-Unitarian like myself can admit Jesus is divine, not just a mere human, it's not necessarily man that revealed this to me, but God. God sent me here to know the truth about him and his Son, Jesus. I will watch all of the videos you have listed for me to watch, also... But after I watch this debate again. In advance, I would like to praise and bless God for you and your ministry. Spreading the good news and being disciples of Jesus is what the Lord commanded. Be blessed, graced, and humbled in Christ.

[@righteousnessofchrist3304]

Essam Mesih Salib Amen brother.

[@robertrodriguez-fk9qt]

Essam Mesih Salib well i feel sorry for you . may god be with you all my Trinitarian bros and sisters. i dont think yall know what ONE is .so you telling me according to the trinity they are 3 in 1 when did 1 spilt? is funny because when i was a kid i was always confused about who i should pray to the father or son or holy spirit . i em an ex Catholic so dont tell i dont know i grew up with this non sense 3 in 1 i see it like this we all gonna stand before god one day and who is gonna be there only one of you one individual soul one soul one and who is gonna judged us ? well one god one soul for one judgment for one god .god bless

[@eddie0009]

Essam Mesih Salib as you said, I agree... I see a very difficult concept (trinity) imposed on me... I in my limited understanding would be much easier to accept unitary God. But the truth is, trinity is forced on the reader by scripture, and just because it is hard for my limited brain to accept it doesn't mean it isn't true, we must bow the knee if it is scriptural. God isn't as simple as unitarians like Him to be.

[@TheCopperHead07]

Saying, "well the Trinity is just too complicated," is a very poor argument and I'm surprised it was utilized by the unitarians.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Nathan Flacke yes I agree, and while I can’t speak for the Jewish man, Anthony has MUCH better and many more reasons for his belief in Gods unity and his disbelief in the Trinity. I think this debate just sort of caught him off guard. Because his books, lectures, and Q&A are MUCH more fact based, in a “go ahead and look up these claims/facts for yourself and see if they’re right or wrong” way

[@JuanLopez-rl7ry]

@@youngknowledgeseeker It caught him of guard because he had finally someone to attack his heretical beliefs.

[@infinityApologeticsClips]

Dr. James White and Dr. Michael Brown are unstoppable!

[@maxspringer01]

All Brown does is talk over his opponents. They tried to go down numerous pathways that would have ended his arguments, but he knew that and repeatedly cut them off and "finished their sentences" with words they weren't going to say. He was just a bully.

[@isaacmartin2046]

@@maxspringer01 idk man, the Unitarians got a free lecture. Unprepared and definitely wouldn’t have “ended his arguments”

[@maxspringer01]

@@isaacmartin2046 Yeah, in numerous places his argument wouldn't have held if he would have just allowed his opponents to respond to him. I've heard most of the arguments on both sides of this issue and knew where they were trying to go.....the fact that he wouldn't let them talk means he also knew where they were going and didn't want to be shown to be wrong. I'm not saying either side won by a landslide or anything; both sides had good and impactful points. I think this topic is a serious one and warranted a more respectful treatment than Michael Brown gave it. I've seen him be respectful on other topics, so I know he has it in him. Sometimes he appears to win by what I call "mini-filibusters", but the arguments don't get proper treatment that way.

[@briankregg6329]

Unstoppable defenders of their cult, trinitarianism

[@Puddles777]

And both should be stopped.

[@AmazinggraceTV7510]

I really believe in holy trinity.. Father, son, holy spirit 🙏

[@Romailjohn]

amen i also

[@ManlyServant]

amen,the true Doctrine

[@savedby_grace6110]

Amen!

[@humbleservant1294]

The Doctrine that took 400 years to get hashed out.

[@shanebell2514]

@@humbleservant1294 The doctrine is found in the Bible, Christians look to the Bible.

[@LukeMathGuy]

Always great seeing Dr white and Dr Brown together

[@johnspartan98]

They are both heretics.

[@juliedunham9400]

The Unitarian side was driving me crazy. It seems that they kept repeating the same thing and they couldn’t really respond to the text that dr. Brown and dr. White have.

[@Sirach144]

That's happens on both sides. White just will say "It's obvious...."

[@SickestDisciple]

@@Sirach144 except, Dr. White and Dr. Brown answered consistently, unlike the Unitarian side.

[@MRFITTA]

@@Sirach144 if you listen carefully, nothing Dr Brown/White said about the pre-existence of Jesus was dealt with by the Unitarian view. They can't accept the truth - thats the sign of a cult, they are indocrtinated, and cannot think apart from their theology. As Christians we are flexible in how our minds work, and can start from no assumption, and work up to the truth, based on what is written

[@doomerquiet1909]

Exactly

[@billybari8081]

I thoroughly investigated the matter and found that *neither a trinitarian nor a Strick unitarian position is right!* You both don't realise that the word *"God"* just like the word *"world", "name", "earth", "heaven", "day", etc....* has multiple meanings in the scriptures and *must be understood in its context.* For example how can Genesis 1:26 & 3:22 on the one hand be reconciled with Isaiah 46:5 or 40:25 on the other hand; If we used the word "God" *INFLEXIBLY* ? Whether you are a Trinitarian or not, you will be caught in a net if you use the word "God" INFLEXIBLY to refer to the triune God......because you will be forced to propose that in Isaiah 46:5 and 40:25, the triune God is talking, where as in Genesis only one member of the Trinity is talking (and says *"us"* to include the other 2 members): which is exactly the flexibility required to resolve this contention. When one begins with a such rigid, INFLEXIBLE presupposition that *the bible tell us (only) that "there is only one "God""* ; of course, you will end up with a false teachings such as Trinity or strict unitarianism because it is simply not true that the bible tells us (only) that there one UNQUALIFIED "God"....No that one "God" is QUALIFIED as "the Most High" "Almighty", Ancient of days,..... Yes, the bible does say that there is one "God", but does ALSO clearly suggests that there is more than one divine entity, more than "one true God" in other scripture (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; etc ..), suggesting multiple meanings of the word "God". The very expression "the Most High" suggests at least one other true God who is not *"the"* most high (such as "the Mighty God" at Isaiah 9:6-7). Of course this does not NECESSARILY imply Trinity as the Holy Spirit can not be separated from the Father and made a separate entity from him! The Holy Spirit - is never worshiped anywhere in the scriptures, - is never found requesting honour, glory or praises anywhere in the scriptures as Jesus does for example at John 5:22-23; - is never said to have created anything much less *"all things"* as is said of the Father (ex.Revelation 4:12; etc ..) and of Jesus (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). - Is never worshipped along with the Father as is the case with Jesus for example at Revelation 5:11-14; -and is omitted in key scriptures that he should be in....example John 14:1(why not also put faith in the Holy Spirit? did Jesus forget him) or what about 1 Corinthians 11:3(why exactly is the head of the man, not the Holy Spirit, but Christ)? The situation is the same for Unitarians who accept the blanket, *unqualified* statement that *"there is only one God"!* I mean how can you deny that someone is "God" once you are EXPLICITELY told that he created "all things" including you(John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17)? Or how can you dispose of Isaiah's prophecy at Isaiah 9:6-7? Was Isaiah proposing and endorsing future idolatry? Isn't it rather obvious that we should be debating *the "meaning" of the word "God" as applied to Jesus and to the Father instead of denying that Jesus is God?* At John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Corinthians 15:27-28; etc....a trinitarian will be forced to acknowdge that the word "God" here refers to the Father because Jesus is spoken of separately and in addition within the same scriptures....and therefore not included in the word God in these scriptures (and that is Trinitarians can never give you a single scripture where "God" means Father, Son and Holy Spirit....they impose that onto the scriptures). .....but trinitarians can argue that scriptures like John 1:1-3; Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 5:8-9; etc... Use the word *"God" in non-exclusive sense and Jesus is clearly included in *"God"* in these scriptures! The problem is that they stretch that beyond what the scriptures suggests to add a third entity without any justifiable reasons to do so. So the scriptures use the word "God" *in an EXCLUSIVE sense to refer ONLY to the Father,* but they also use the word"God" in *a NON- EXCLUSIVE sense to simply refer to divine nature* in which case it is obvious that Jesus is also *"God" (John 1:1-3; Isaiah 9:6-7; etc...)!*

[@emblems4life726]

I spent 45 years as a Watchtowercorp Publisher, and vigorously debated trinitarians in my door to door, and informal witnessing opportunities. My most frequently used resource in trying to debunk the Trinity, was the "Should You Believe the Trinity?" brochure, printed by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, until I took the time to truly investigate my own faith. In April 2014 I began to do intense research into Watchtowercorp doctrine, publications, history, policies, and the accuracy of the New World Translation Book (what they call a Bible). What I found out literally floored me. My cherished "big gun", which I so often used to refute the Triune Nature of God, was filled with numerous misquotes, and deceptive lies. When I discovered Watchtowercorp's best evidence against the Trinity was based on fraud, it caused me to prayerfully seek better understanding of God's Nature, through His Word, and the leading of the Holy Spirit (not the pagan based "active farce" 😉, or "Odic Force"). My conclusion is that both the Quality, and Quantity, of the biblical evidence, leaves no doubt that the "Trinity Doctrine", is the best non-contradictory explanation of God's progressive revelation of Himself. This understanding has deepened my appreciation for God, revealed in His eternal memorial name "l AM THAT I AM", or as Watchtowercorp says it in their Book - "I Shall Prove To Be What I Shall Prove To Be". What God has proven to be, is EVERYTHING NEEDED TO FULFILL HIS PURPOSE, which is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Blessings to you as you continue to seek the LORD,

[@tadm123]

Reading the scripture just *forces* into the trinity doctrine, there's just no way around it. By the way, where you shunned by your family? I know the JW's instruct members to do that.

[@emblems4life726]

tadm123 We are shunned by most of my Wife’s JW family and our former JW friends developed over the last 45 years. We were able to keep some lines of communication open with some of them though, especially during the early stages of “fading” from our role of being Watchtowercorp Agents (Publisher, Auxiliary Pioneer, Ministerial Servant). We have been so blessed to see Jehovah utilize the message of the “true gospel”, and the calling of His Son Jesus, to liberate 5 others from the deceit of the organization too. We rejoice in seeing the acceleration of Jehovah’s Celestial Chariot in running over Watchtowercorp’s Counterfeit Chariot, especially since the development of the Internet age. Thank you for your inquiry, and may the Lord Bless you always!

[@tadm123]

I see, very dangerous cult using the same tactics as scientology like expected. May God bless you too :).

[@errolhenry9546]

Emblems4Life I am not JW but Will still encourage you my brother to Keep your focus on Christ Jesus he is the way the truth and the life.

[@emblems4life726]

Errol Henry I am doing that for the first time in my life since leaving Watchtowercorp. John 14:6 is my favorite scripture in the Bible. Bless you for your encouragement!

[@edwardchristopher3335]

I think is three debates clearly demonstrate the Trinity. Great job done by James White and Michael Brown.

[@tadm123]

This was more of a lecture by Dr.Brown and James to the Unitarians on the scripture and history.

[@chriswhitejr1689]

59:20 Pastor Jeff. Definitely didn’t expect him. I love Dr. White, and Dr. Brown( though I disagree with Dr. Brown on Soteriology) Fantastic job.

[@ETHANGELIST]

Please support me and my ministry on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trinityapologetics ANY amount would go a long way especially since I live in the Philippines. Even $1! And it's easy to sign up :-) I have plans to get married and enter full time ministry some day.

[@greglogan7706]

Oh geez... now you are begging for money...profiteering off of the name of Jesus Christ. Tsk, tsk, tsk... "Those who crept into the church aforetime marked out for this...."

[@ETHANGELIST]

Greg Logan 1 Cor. 9:14: In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. [NIV] It's not begging. It's asking support from the body of Christ to anyone willing or anyone wanting to be generous as Christ was generous to us. I live in the Philippines and work a full time office job. I earn around $360 a MONTH before taxes. The Lord knows I need support especially since I wish to raise a family someday soon.

[@greglogan7706]

Trinity Apologetics Geez, dude, we all preach the gospel... so what? Apologetics?? As if there are not 10 million arm-chair so called apologists already... like we really need every Tom, Dick and Harry who has an itch in his butt to think that he is something great? Frankly - you have never followed up with the basic issues that I presented you. No - you are begging from money - you are trying to better your fleshly life - and you are using the glorious name of the Lord Jesus Christ to do so. You throw out Paul's work - who was doing a genuine work of God attested to by the Spirit of God as a miserable excuse. SHAME ON YOU - and every God damned American evangelical preacher who is doing the same - and there are THOUSANDS of them!

[@ETHANGELIST]

Greg Logan I'm not American and I flatly condemn anyone who uses the name of Jesus for riches or takes advantage of people in the name of religion. I also condemn the prosperity gospel. But I plan to enter full time ministry one day, get married and support a family of my mine. $360 a month is simply not enough. And I find your comment quite hate-filled and insulting to be honest. Is this from the Spirit of God or some other spirit? And how can I believe you have the Spirit of Christ when you deny the OBVIOUS that He is God and Creator? I have never followed up? I'm approaching 1800 subscribers now, have 100s of videos and 300,000+ total views. I can't keep track of everything! If you would like to have a proper discussion, we can exchange videos and present our case for and against the positions. Would you like that? We can each create a 15 minute presentation and then submit rebuttals and put them all into one video.

[@greglogan7706]

Trinity Apologetics My comments are aimed at EVERYONE using the name of Jesus to profiteer. While I appreciate the fact that you are not living in mansions and driving fancy cars - you are seeing the gospel as a means of increasing income - rather than as a call from God - letting God provide. That is the spirit from which I am writing. As to videos, etc. - I have no interest in reviewed tired, legacy, re-hashed material that I was familiar with 30+ yrs ago - that has been hashed and re-hashed as nauseum. I trust you realize you are simply re-packing stuff that has been around for CENTURIES. What we were doing was having an em exchange - and you continued to drop out - all the while CONDEMNING and CONDESCENDING towards those who worship Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN attested by God - whom God has made both Lord and Christ. Your arrogance and self-righteousness are serious issues - but I attempted to address you in a humble manner as I am called to do in the Kingdom of God. You chose to continue in your ways and not search these things out. I am sorry to have to say this - but these are the facts - and we are called to walk in truth.

[@errolducase4785]

38:40 James White destroy them

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Errol Ducase I’m sure Anthony had something to say, but if I was with him what I would say is first of all even if there were no vowel pointing, these texts were still read out loud by the population, so do we imagine that whenever scribes or even lay people were discussing this psalm they would say to each other that Yahweh was talking to Yahweh, who by the way was his own Davidic King? And that we never find anyone talking about this in Jewish literature or trying to figure out the craziness of a verse that says that Yahweh is two people and talking to himself and will be his own Davidic King???...c’mon Secondly, and I can’t be sure of this, but I’m going to guess that when Anthony said that the Greek makes a distinction he means that the Septuagint translates the second Lord as my Lord or the Lord of me. Seeing as how you can’t say “my Yahweh/Adonai”, or at least it’s never found anywhere most likely meaning it was not a way of speaking, The septuagint translators did not think the second Lord was Adonai.

[@josuerivera7921]

Errol Ducase Dr James White be hitting them with “Fatalities “ lol.

[@eshtonpillay6448]

@@josuerivera7921 More like Brutalities brother :)

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Jonathan Soko hey I’m not gonna lie this debate did not come off well for him, or at least as well as it should’ve, but that’s because of time constraints and lack of a good partner. But I know that man personally and trust me we don’t “disagree because we just don’t agree”. He has a website, KZbin channel, and the denomination biblical Unitarian have a bunch of websites and KZbin channels that very easily and clearly explain our discrepancies. This isnt a war between denominations it is the humble and pure pursuit of truth, which is at the end of the day God himself even...

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Zestro 98 hey 98, I’m a 92 👋. I need to get into Jewish history tradition and culture, including things like the targums more in depth, I’ve only sort of dipped my toes in that so to speak. But I hope you really know what you’re talking about speaking as confidently as you are. Like for example are you guessing that that “confusion“ was because of this passage? Like you read an actual document/ancient text where they say it’s because of this passage...or are you just saying that is because of this passage? Not even saying it can’t be I’m just honestly asking you this question. Also I said no such thing, all I said was when they were reading this out loud did they think that they were reading Yahweh was speaking to a separate Yahweh, and on top of that he was his own Davidic king/seed/son of David...? This would mean that they should’ve thought the Davidic king was supposed to be God... Is that what we see in the expectation and reaction of the people in the New Testament? or Old? or even Jewish literature, especially those contemporary to and around the time of Jesus...? For example the argument in Mark 12 doesn’t make sense if the whole time the Pharisees were going around reading a version of Psalm 110:1 one where it was Yhwh speaking to Yahweh, otherwise Jesus question would’ve been easily answered..

[@krisztianpatay9812]

" He was acting as God on earth but I don't believe he was God " If Jesus thought like God, spoke like God and acted like God than He is God. No man can do that without being divine.

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it must be a rooster???

[@AshleyLoucks]

The Unitarians OBVIOUSLY lost this debate!

[@jusmyself2033]

They lost from the first question ,there stupidity is amazing

[@ex-trinitarian5196]

Absolutely not. Paul wasn't a Trinitarian either, see: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercy and God of all consolation (2. Corinthians 1:3).

[@terryhilton7918]

Titus 2:13 proves you wrong. He calls Jesus “our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”

[@charlestiraco8634]

​@@terryhilton7918There are other scriptures describing this same event. None of them make Jesus seem to be God. You should check out this verse laid out in Greek.

[@terryhilton7918]

@@charlestiraco8634 there are plenty more scriptures that show Jesus is God. He wouldn’t call Himself the first and last or the great I AM if He wasn’t God.

[@RobotMowerTricks]

Wow this was good. I think the reason it "felt" like the Unitarians didn't answer enough of the Trinitarians despite equal time, is because the Unitarians often talked about a different passage than the one at hand.

[@rightousliving]

They were unfortunately not a great match, the battle for them was already lost before it began. If Rabbi Tovia Singer were a Christian, he would be a far better match to defend the Unitarian position.

[@emblems4life726]

After watching this and other debates it is clear to me that the trinity doctrine is factually true as God's revelation of himself through both scripture and encounters with mankind. I opposed the trinity doctrine for 45 years based on the lies presented to me by the Watchtower Society/ jwDOTorg. Their primary tool to disprove it was based on lies, misquotes of the early church fathers, and true quotes from outright enemies of Christianity who consider almost everything about it as pagan. I praise Yahweh for opening my mind and heart to His true nature, and no longer limiting Him to the abilities of His creation.

[@bobpolo2964]

Amen, God is faithful

[@pastorjasonlohse4556]

Praise God!!

[@toknowhim3987]

Emblems4Life praise the Lord!

[@jameswines6752]

Emblems4Life the Trinity is a lie read the scriptures and it would tell you, read psalms 110 and verse 1 and tell me how many is that is it said the Lord said to my Lord sit here at my right hand ,now if one Lord is sitting down and he tell the other lord to sit down that's 2, Isaiah 50:2-4, Revelation 21:22-23 , 22:1, Romans 8:29, See it's only 2 but after the first Resurrection it will be many just read Romans 8:29 Jesus is the first among many brethren and he's not talkin about the angels just read psalms 82 it would tell you and John chapter 10 verse 33 and 34 see what Jesus said we are to become

[@darsom2717]

+Emblems4Life Praise Jesus brother/sister, it is heartening to know you broke away from a heresy, our God is good. Peace and blessings to you and your loved ones.

[@renee6989]

I came with my eyes and ears open so the Lord may convict me of what is truth. I found the unitarians appealing to their emotions and scholars while the trinitarians appeal to scripture. The winners are clearly the trinitarians. James white nailed it. They read scripture with one eye opened and try to mold scripture to fit their narrative based on preconceived notions of what their idea of God is and isn't. Notice how many times they say 'I think' and 'I feel'

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Renee your openness to truth is awesome and rarer than you might think. I am a unitarian (but former trinitarian) who knows mr.buzzard personally (😁) and let me tell you, this is the worst I’ve ever seen him, especially his partner, who mr.buzzard told me was kind of pigeonholed in there with him last minute(I even told him that I could’ve done a better job and wish I was there instead of him). Do remember he (buzzard) is an old man(if I can use that term respectfully), though he looks and sounds more youthful than he really is. anyways even I agree, the Unitarians could’ve done much better, because we have much better facts that didn’t get to be adequately displayed, that’s why his books and sometimes lectures or teachings are so different to him here and how biblical-unitarianism is presented here. LOL I guess I just want to say, keep up your search for truth and never stop praying for it because we do live in a world of so much confusion and lies, and also I hope you don’t judge Unitarianism and Mr. Buzzard only based on this video, because he and it are really a force to be reckoned with that needs the attention of the public to really be heard out for what it is

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Renee and if Mr. Buzzard is ever saying “I think”, or “I feel”, it’s out of humbleness and a willingness to admit that he could be wrong, even if it’s only a 1% chance. I hope you don’t take it the wrong way and think that he is reading scripture and interpreting it based on feelings or thoughts alone or something. I do the same thing too tbh. Now i’m not going to go back and check but I am inclined to venture that Dr. White and Dr. Brown probably never or hardly ever speak like this during the debate. Some people might take this for strength and surety, but that’s only if the teachings they espouse are actually true. Otherwise, whoever teaches without humbleness, has less of an excuse before god if they had been teaching false information the whole time. At least if you were humble about it, you give the person listening to you the opportunity to investigate your claims rather than take them as blunt truth.

[@Nappy2BeMe]

Exxxxxaaaaacccctly. "Lean not... on your own understanding..."

[@jesusislife2837]

Renee the Holy Spirit will continue to lead and guide you in all truth. Jesus bless you!

[@calleOMEGA]

Tbh I think the trinitarians had far more of an attack orientation, thinking about why they’re going to say next before the Unitarians had finished their sentence. The trinitarians like a school yard circle egged each other on. This made it seem one-sides to a surface hearing of it. For myself who is still somewhat on the fence found more deeper epiphanal nuggets from the Unitarians.

[@H3H3r]

Jeremiah 17:10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. In New test. Jesus said that was he: Revelation 2:23 and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

[@Akhil_Chilukapati]

Happy to see Samshamion and Jeff Durbin as Audience.

[@michaelserour1359]

Sam and Jeff in one Audience, must be my lucky day

[@samuelmiot]

Mike BRA tht was the 2nd best thing in this video

[@kkirchhevel]

While the word trinity is not found in scripture, the Father, The son, and the Holy Spirit are. God said "Let us make man in our image" us and our are plural, God was speaking to someone who shared His image, and who shared in the act of creation. The word Echad is used to describe not only God, but Adam and Eve were flesh echad, The people at the tower of Babel were echad(Hundreds if not thousands) and the tribes that went to fight against the sodomites in Benjamin were also echad. so obviously Echad is used in a sense of united. Messiah prayed "Father I pray that they may be one(Echad) as we are one(echad) " We can only be united in Gods spirit, and that is how The FATHER, and The SON are united.

[@naturechannel8425]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYukp3uee6x5d6s

[@feels9421]

Job38:6-7 6On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- 7while the morning stars sang together and all the angels a shouted for joy. Weren't the heavens created first with angles, then man?

[@josuerivera7921]

In Mortal Kombat Terms, Dr James and Brown just performed a “Bibliaty!”

[@JesusGarcia-Digem]

Lol

[@B1bombermadness]

🤣

[@yolospecialist533]

LOL the best comment so far

[@calleOMEGA]

Only in rhetoric. Not in substance

[@SickestDisciple]

@@calleOMEGA that’s not true at all. Don’t let your emotions get in the way of the reality of what Holy Scripture states.

[@yoppysoleman9758]

By watching these highly qualified debate videos (Part 1 & 2), we have studied one of the Christian teological topics that are not only the most elusive (complicated) but also the most crucial from the world's leading teologians. It is generally seen that (also for me a non-native speakers of English) the professors of the trinity doctrine have studied and deepened Christianity with a much higher intensity than their opponents. Thank you a lot to Trinity Apologetics for uploading these debate videos (Part 1 & 2). May GB us and greetings from Indonesia.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Yoppy Soleman you should check out some of Anthony‘s stuff, like his books, or his website, or possibly even his KZbin channel.

[@pauljomento8357]

I agree, the trinitarian side certainly know their sources and stick to biblical truths

[@billybari8081]

I thoroughly investigated the matter and found that *neither a trinitarian nor a Strick unitarian position is right!* You both don't realise that the word *"God"* just like the word *"world", "name", "earth", "heaven", "day", etc....* has multiple meanings in the scriptures and *must be understood in its context.* For example how can Genesis 1:26 & 3:22 on the one hand be reconciled with Isaiah 46:5 or 40:25 on the other hand; If we used the word "God" *INFLEXIBLY* ? Whether you are a Trinitarian or not, you will be caught in a net if you use the word "God" INFLEXIBLY to refer to the triune God......because you will be forced to propose that in Isaiah 46:5 and 40:25, the triune God is talking, where as in Genesis only one member of the Trinity is talking (and says *"us"* to include the other 2 member): which is exactly the flexibility required to resolve this contention. When one begins with a such rigid, INFLEXIBLE presupposition that *"the bible tell us that there is only one "God""!* ; Of course you will end with a false teaching such as Trinity or oneness because it is simply not true that the bible tells us that there one UNQUALIFIED "God"....No that one "God" is QUALIFIED as "the Most High" "Almighty", Ancient of days,.....! Yes, the bible says there one "God", but does also clearly suggests that there is more than one divine entity (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; etc ..). The very expression "the Most High" suggests other true Gods who are not the most high (such the Mighty God at Isaiah 9:6-7). Of course this does not necessarily imply Trinity as the Holy Spirit can not be separated from the Father and made a separate entity from him! The Holy Spirit - is never worshiped anywhere in the scriptures, - is never found requesting honour, glory or praises anywhere in the scriptures as Jesus does for example at John 5:22-23; - is never said to have created anything much less *"all things"* as is said of the Father (ex.Revelation 4:12; etc ..) and of Jesus (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). - Is never worshipped along with the Father as is the case with Jesus for example at Revelation 5:11-14; -and is omitted in key scriptures that he should be in....example John 14:1(why not also put faith in the Holy Spirit? did Jesus forget him) or what about 1 Corinthians 11:3(why exactly is the head of the man, not the Holy Spirit, but Christ)? The situation is the same for Unitarians who accept the blanket, *unqualified* statement that *"there is only one God"!* I mean how can you deny that someone is "God" once you are EXPLICITELY told that he created "all things" including you(John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17)? Or how can you dispose of Isaiah's prophecy at Isaiah 9:6-7? Was Isaiah proposing and endorsing future idolatry? Isn't it rather obvious that we should be debating *the "meaning" of the word "God" as applied to Jesus and to the Father instead of denying that Jesus is God?* At John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Corinthians 15:27-28; etc....a trinitarian will be forced to acknowdge that the word "God" here refers to the Father because Jesus is spoken of separately and in addition within the same scriptures....and therefore not included in the word God in these scriptures (and that is Trinitarians can never give you a single scripture where "God" means Father, Son and Holy Spirit....they impose that onto the scriptures). .....but trinitarians can argue that scriptures like John 1:1-3; Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 5:8-9; etc... Use the word *"God" in non-exclusive sense and Jesus is clearly included in *"God"* in these scriptures! The problem is that they stretch that beyond what the scriptures suggests to add a third entity without any justifiable reasons to do so. So the scriptures use the word "God" *in an EXCLUSIVE sense to refer ONLY to the Father,* but they also use the word"God" in *a NON- EXCLUSIVE sense to simply refer to divine nature* in which case it is obvious that Jesus is also *"God" (John 1:1-3; Isaiah 9:6-7; etc...)!*

[@aegontargeryan1499]

@@billybari8081 And after thorough investigation of your opinion, I've found out that it's just your opinion. Which is contradicting itself , it's filled with false dichotomy e.g just because you've not seen a verse were the holy spirit receives worship , it must mean the trinity is not true. Hebrews 1: 5-8 The father calls Jesus God . Who will seat at his right hand. On the eternal throne. Have you ever seen this verse.

[@aegontargeryan1499]

@@billybari8081 I'll answer your question about how the verse in Genesis and Isaiah can be reconciled. Jesus said I and the father are one. Whom will you compare me to Is just another version of I will not share my glory with anyone, but Jesus and the father share glory , they are one.

[@antonioadajr1895]

Trinity cant find but it was expressly here: Tri + Unity = Trinity Tri = Three Unity = joined together to be come ONE 1John 5:7 KJV For there are three (TRI) that bear record in heaven, the (1) FATHER, (2) the WORD, and the (3) HOLY GHOST: and these three (TRI) are one (UNITED to become ONE) Father Word Holy Ghost ----------------- ONE (God) Trinity ONE GOD

[@alphapanda2854]

Antonio Ada Jr lol. So deluded. This is the CENTRAL THEME to your religion. This is the CRUX. The very foundation of unitarian Christianity is the TRINITY. what don't you understand about that? Wouldn't it be mentioned in your bible even once? Makes ZERO sense. How can you make excuses for this? Even a child would think twice, you have had to essentially pluck words from all over the place in order to substantiate a belief that your religious doctrine doesn't even touch upon. Surely if this belief is the difference between salvation and damnation, then your scripture would be extremely explicit about this? Honestly? It's like buying a cupboard from ikea, reading the manual....then noticing the manual says " bed instruction manual" ....then proceeding to attempt to build it anyway.

[@julianmanjarres1998]

That verse you quoted is an inserted verse that isn't in the original text. Look it up

[@JuanLopez-rl7ry]

@@alphapanda2854 It does, you just can't read

[@alphapanda2854]

@@JuanLopez-rl7ry dude, fuck off. Roping me into a bullshit argument from a year ago. Believe what you want. The word trinity does not appear in the bible. Point blank period.

[@syedosama4265]

1john 5:7 has been thrown out by 32 Christan scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different cooperating denominations as an INTERPOLATION, as a FABRICATION, as a CONCOCTION.

[@Hosannafication]

at 48min michael brown makes one of the most amazing points and shatters his opponents argumentation beyond repair. these dynamic duo basically puts it down. awesome debate. loved it.

[@waltjervey6572]

+mike valenzuela Hummmmmm you think?

[@everything9466]

Walt Jervey hmmmmmmmm mmmm no..... we know

[@robertrodriguez-fk9qt]

F.G. FORTUNE/FAMILY GANG Hmmmmmmmm mmmmmm no we know not

[@dissyl6029]

@@robertrodriguez-fk9qt Hmmmmmmmm yes we know indeed

[@deusx.machinaanime.3072]

😂😂😂😂😂 To all of you.

[@benhof2140]

Just finished watching part: 1. Trinitarians dominated every single minute of that debate. Everything they heard they refuted with ease and fired back with very solid carefull thought out arguments...literally all referenced with scripture. The Unitarians only used scripture in about half their arguments...the other half they referenced founding fathers and scholars of which there supposedly was/is a great multitude. It’s also obvious that the trinitarians made much longer and detailed arguments and were much more confrontational and direct in their responses. The Unitarians were gun shy and timid, giving brief arguments and even briefer counter arguments. They did not utalize much of their time.

[@leegaesswitz181]

Dr. Brown and James White destroy in this debate. Bravo.

[@leegaesswitz181]

Ford, are you familiar with scripture at all? I see that you aren't very skilled grammar wise, are you from America? Because scripture makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is in fact God in the flesh.

[@leegaesswitz181]

Read John 1:1-14

[@leegaesswitz181]

+ford fairlane Jesus Christ is apart of the Trinity, so you can't ignore that part. If you say that Jesus is God, then you agree with the Trinity. What part are you confused about here?

[@bobbbanar2158]

I'd love to see Dr. Brown and James White team up more often. They are excellent together!

[@maxspringer01]

Brown is a bully.

[@aegontargeryan1499]

@@maxspringer01 Evidence?

[@nadohe11]

I've watched this full debate about 4-5 times now and every time I get more and more confident in my belief in the concept of the Trinity. It's just plain in scripture. Is it comprehensible to our finite minds? No, absolutely not. But is it something we can apprehend, or take hold of? Absolutely YES. We are to trust God, even when we don't fully understand and this is a case where God's nature is not completely understandable by our finite minds, but by faith in Him, we accept what His word clearly shows us, ONE God (being) that consists of THREE persons, co-equal, co-eternal, all sharing in the ONE Divine nature of God.

[@TheCatfish75134]

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 not 1

[@kemal3599]

As stated 1+1+1 does not equal 1 but not just that, if you believe in the trinity you must acknowledge the Bible is a collection of books with four versions of the gospel, read each individually without any presumptions and biases and honestly ask yourself if every author of every New Testament book believed in the trinity... you can't. Also read Paul's writings "man's head is Christ... Christ's head is God" I can give you multiple sayings of Paul and Mark, Matthew and Luke showing they do not subscribe to the trinity... honestly it is clear they don't even agree when Jesus was exalted... Mark says at Baptism, Matthew and Luke say a virgin birth. Paul believes he was "highly exalted" post crucifixion, so that "every knee should bow". And we know he was not at this status prior to his resurrection because Paul says- 'We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: “You are my son; today I have become your father."'

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

I 100% understand, this debate was a poor showing for Unitarianism. But I wouldn’t base your view of unitarianism solely on this debate. In fact Mr. Anthony Buzzard explains and shows the facts of Unitarianism MUCH better and in depth in his books and online videos on KZbin. But his books especially. And the best part is, after hearing a fact you can easily go check it out for yourself to see if it is debunkable or not 😋

[@zekdom]

8:48 and 8:57 - James White came in 10:45 - James White on John 8 13:15 and 17:55 and 59:45 - James White on John 1 16:38 - Michael Brown on 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Colossians 1:16 20:39 - James White on Philippians 2

[@acortes7771]

I don't like the fact that James White was cut off at the end. No one cuts James White off! No one!!!

[@doomerquiet1909]

One side seemed to jumpr from text to text the second they were uncomfortable, and the other seemed to stay on point comfortable with every text.

[@ghostaskrens7012]

This Unitarian who denies the Deity of Christ is ridiculous. His arguments are refuted as soon as they come out of his mouth. I honestly think he's being to realize he's a heretic as the debate progresses.

[@darsom2717]

+Trinity Apologetics Thank you for this 2 part classic, pretty amazing debate indeed. I had never seen Dr Brown before, and I must say, I'm loving what he does. I do know a little bit about Dr White, I hadn't really taken much interest in him before, but this debate has completely turned my mind on to him, if he could learn to stop letting what others think and say offend him, considering especially, when it is concerning other "religions" he'd be unstoppable in any field. The two of them are outstanding together here! Thank you again guys, brilliant upload. Peace, love and grace to you, in Jesus name. Amen.

[@billybari8081]

I thoroughly investigated the matter and found that *neither a trinitarian nor a Strick unitarian position is right!* You both don't realise that the word *"God"* just like the word *"world", "name", "earth", "heaven", "day", etc....* has multiple meanings in the scriptures and *must be understood in its context.* For example how can Genesis 1:26 & 3:22 on the one hand be reconciled with Isaiah 46:5 or 40:25 on the other hand; If we used the word "God" *INFLEXIBLY* ? Whether you are a Trinitarian or not, you will be caught in a net if you use the word "God" INFLEXIBLY to refer to the triune God......because you will be forced to propose that in Isaiah 46:5 and 40:25, the triune God is talking, where as in Genesis only one member of the Trinity is talking (and says *"us"* to include the other 2 member): which is exactly the flexibility required to resolve this contention. When one begins with a such rigid, INFLEXIBLE presupposition that *"the bible tell us that there is only one "God""!* ; Of course you will end with a false teaching such as Trinity or oneness because it is simply not true that the bible tells us that there one UNQUALIFIED "God"....No that one "God" is QUALIFIED as "the Most High" "Almighty", Ancient of days,.....! Yes, the bible says there one "God", but does also clearly suggests that there is more than one divine entity (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; etc ..). The very expression "the Most High" suggests other true Gods who are not the most high (such the Mighty God at Isaiah 9:6-7). Of course this does not necessarily imply Trinity as the Holy Spirit can not be separated from the Father and made a separate entity from him! The Holy Spirit - is never worshiped anywhere in the scriptures, - is never found requesting honour, glory or praises anywhere in the scriptures as Jesus does for example at John 5:22-23; - is never said to have created anything much less *"all things"* as is said of the Father (ex.Revelation 4:12; etc ..) and of Jesus (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17). - Is never worshipped along with the Father as is the case with Jesus for example at Revelation 5:11-14; -and is omitted in key scriptures that he should be in....example John 14:1(why not also put faith in the Holy Spirit? did Jesus forget him) or what about 1 Corinthians 11:3(why exactly is the head of the man, not the Holy Spirit, but Christ)? The situation is the same for Unitarians who accept the blanket, *unqualified* statement that *"there is only one God"!* I mean how can you deny that someone is "God" once you are EXPLICITELY told that he created "all things" including you(John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17)? Or how can you dispose of Isaiah's prophecy at Isaiah 9:6-7? Was Isaiah proposing and endorsing future idolatry? Isn't it rather obvious that we should be debating *the "meaning" of the word "God" as applied to Jesus and to the Father instead of denying that Jesus is God?* At John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Corinthians 15:27-28; etc....a trinitarian will be forced to acknowdge that the word "God" here refers to the Father because Jesus is spoken of separately and in addition within the same scriptures....and therefore not included in the word God in these scriptures (and that is Trinitarians can never give you a single scripture where "God" means Father, Son and Holy Spirit....they impose that onto the scriptures). .....but trinitarians can argue that scriptures like John 1:1-3; Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 5:8-9; etc... Use the word *"God" in non-exclusive sense and Jesus is clearly included in *"God"* in these scriptures! The problem is that they stretch that beyond what the scriptures suggests to add a third entity without any justifiable reasons to do so. So the scriptures use the word "God" *in an EXCLUSIVE sense to refer ONLY to the Father,* but they also use the word"God" in *a NON- EXCLUSIVE sense to simply refer to divine nature* in which case it is obvious that Jesus is also *"God" (John 1:1-3; Isaiah 9:6-7; etc...)!*

[@darsom2717]

@@billybari8081 why use a word, that isn't even in the Bible to leave oneself confused? The facts are, the Holy Scriptures state there is one God, yet, the Holy Spirit is called God, the Father is called God and the Son is called God, and plurality is jusy abundant, that's the main points that prove the "unitarian" position is incorrect, I don't get caught up in arguments over words, especially ones that don't exist in Scripture.

[@billybari8081]

@@darsom2717 But so is the Trinitarian position my friend because it adds what the scriptures don't say (Revelation 22:18)! -the scriptures never say that the Father is EQUAL to the Son or that the Son is EQUAL to the Holy Spirit! This *concept of CO-EQUALITY is purely a Trinitarian invention that the bible never supports anywhere!* - the scriptures never say that *Jesus is "Almighty", neither do they say that the Holy Spirit is "Almighty".* Again this is an invention of the FALSE teaching of trinity! - the scriptures never state that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are *one entity or essence!* Trinitarians eisegetically impose that false concept into the scriptures! - the scriptures never suggest that Jesus is all-knowing both before (Deiteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:19-26; Isaiah 61:1-3; Isaiah 42:1-3; etc....), during (John 14:28) or after his earthly life (Revelation 1:1; Matthew 24:36; Revelation 14:14-16; etc...). But you Trinitarians insist Jesus is all-knowing just as the Father is despite hundreds of scriptures to the contrary. - the scriptures provide no single example of a Christian worshiping the so called "triune God"....rather worshippers in the Bible are ALWAYS specific about "WHO" they are they are praying to....and we can draw statistics and learn that: 1. They never prayed to the Holy Spirit. There is no single instance of a true worshiper worshipping the Holy Spirit, is there? I challenge you to find me one example please! *Why must you guys invent your own worship other than what the Appostles taught in the scriptures?* 2. In the scriptures, about 95% of the time, prayers are EXPLICITELY directed to the Father, and the rest of the prayers are directed to Jesus or both the Father and the Son together. Think about what that must mean in the context of scriptures like John 17:3; Daniel 7:13-14; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Corinthians 15:27-28; etc..... 3. The scriptures never even give an example of the Holy Spirit receiving honor, glory or praises from first century Christians *let alone being worshipped as "a God"!* Again this is an invention of the pagan concept of trinity! I could go one.....but it is clear that if unitarianism is a FALSE doctrine (and I agree with you, it is) there is no doubt that *Trinitarianism is far WORSE!*

[@darsom2717]

@@billybari8081 btw, I already told you, I don't do silly circular arguments over words, read ALL of Holy Scripture.

[@billybari8081]

@@darsom2717 Yes: you don't do scriptures because scriptures are words.....and those "words" should not be called silly, because they expose your False, teachings (2 Timothy 4:3-4). You seem to be good at doing DOGMA! That is why when people ask you genuine questions to expose your false teaching, you can't respond! When we ask you for example: - why is the Holy Spirit omitted at Luke 9:26? Why would Jesus speak of his glory, the glory of the father and the glory of angels but *forget the glory of the Holy Spirit* if Trinity is true? Is this what you call "circular reasoning"? Or a debate on words? Really .....wow .. -or when ask you what is happening at Revelation 5:11-14? Why is the Holy Spirit not present here? Had he gone on holiday? And there are many scriptures the Holy Spirit should be in but is omitted: 1 Timothy 5:21; John 14:1; 1 Corinthians 11:3; etc ... Why is that if he is Deity in the Trinitarian sense? *"A Devine person"!* Just because you are brainwashed and indoctrinated to believe in the falsehood of trinity (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) does not mean that asking the above questions is circular reasoning or a debate over words ....no.....these are inspired Holy scriptures which contradict the nonsense you teach within the False concept of trinity. If Trinity was true, it would be EXPLICITELY stated in the scriptures and not be eisegetically read into the bible as you are doing! The bible vehemently opposes the FALSE concepts that the Trinity entails such as: - co-equality, - oneness of entity or essence, - worship of the Holy Spirit as a divine person, - etc.... Clearly, you can't answer a single question relating to your false doctrine and are evading the questions claiming they are words: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11; Romans 10:2-3; 1 Timothy 4:1; Matthew 15:9; Etc....

[@TheChurchSplit]

Jeff Durban - I have a question for you sir. Where the actual heck is your beard?

[@2mexpesos]

54:00 exactly!! 💯🙌🏼 thank you Lord Jesus for being our redeemer!

[@MessianicJewJitsu]

1:13:00 You gotta appreciate an appeal to a scene from Back 2 The Future regardless of his position.

[@ravikeller9626]

I actually think the "agent" argument is a little too powerful for it's own good. Based on that logic, Jesus could come right out and say, "I am God, worship me" in those exact words and the unitarians could still explain it away as Jesus merely speaking as an agent on behalf of the Father. In fact, Jesus could even say, "I am not an agent, I am God Himself" and the unitarians could *still* in theory explain that statement away as a statement from the Father through Jesus as an agent. There is nothing Jesus could say that they couldn't explain away in this manner. Therefore, it's an unfalsifiable theory and the unitarians have cut themselves off from any potential correction that the Scripture could offer. I wish they would realize how dangerous this is.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Ravi Keller please give us the benefit of the doubt of having common sense and reason and a genuine desire and passion for the truth no matter what it is :). If a messenger out right comes and says “I am not a messenger I am the God, Yahweh” there’s almost no way around something like that. I’m a Unitarian saying please give us the benefit of the doubt that we have common sense, or at least some of us

[@RedDwarfism]

Accept Jesus never said anything Of The kind which is exactly the point for a certainty he said the opposite which is confirmed in the book of Phillipians.

[@2mexpesos]

Ravi Keller 💯 agree!

[@choicemeatrandy6572]

@@RedDwarfism Jesus accepted worship and forgave people's sins. Who else, in the entire Bible, had the power to forgive sins?

[@RedDwarfism]

Randy Couture Since all authority that Christ Jesus had was God given it is from God that Jesus had the authority to forgive sins. Matt 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Authority was given him God has everlasting authority so he gave it to Jesus if the authority was not given to him by God? I invite you to ponder this.

[@lxDarkToothxl]

The NINJA asking the first question?!! These guys really had no chance.

[@denise1656]

Got J.D asking a Q for Dr.W, I love it I have learned SO MUCH from White and During, I love them both, and they are the 2 who brought me into the reformed faith.

[@2mexpesos]

Part 1 and 2 almost 3 hrs!! yet I see confused people in the comment section still denying the Tri-unity of God, multiple bible references provided yet still people commenting "the trinity is a man made doctrine" 🤦🏻‍♀️ The word trinity may not be in the Bible just like the word "bible" but we know exactly what is referring to don't we? If God clearly states 3=1 than that is what we are to believe. We try so hard to try to think like God with our human logic.. Remember *our thoughts are not his thoughts* .. he is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient and us?? Well, we are just dirty rags...

[@dianasaur2131]

Those still dead in spirit cannot see Yahusha is God, only Yahusha is without sin no natural man is without sin. YHWH behold the hand behold the nail

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Readybrek Awake Adam was without sin before He ate the fruit, and he was a natural man

[@GirlPaintsArt]

@@youngknowledgeseeker Exactly, Adam ate the fruit and therefore sinned. We also were without sin when we were born, but ultimately we sin, too just like Adam and Eve. “For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23 Thank God for His saving grace through Jesus Christ our Lord.🤗🥰

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@GirlPaintsArt I know it’s a strange sounding idea and a hard pill to swallow, but Jesus is not God nor did he ever present himself to be God. And I’m not Muslim. Any Christian will learn this from reading their Bible and not being afraid to ask the tough questions, to pray about them and to earnestly seek out the answers to them. Jesus is Gods son, God’s human being “son” that he magically/miraculously made/pro-created. Jesus mother was made pregnant by Gods Holy Spirit, aka his direct influence and power therefore God was Jesus “Father” and not a man. Adam was somewhat similar in his creation, he was made directly by God and so his Father was God as well, Luke himself makes sure to call both Jesus and Adam Gods son in his genealogy.... Luke 1:35 - The Angel Gabriel tells us Christians, and the whole world, why it is Jesus is called God’s son....

[@skippy8696]

It should be noted that not only is Buzzard a Unitarian, he also denies the pre-existance of Christ, which is like, next-level heresy. Even Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge this, albeit in a very twisted and perverse way.

[@panneerselvam5693]

Unitarians, Pls answer my some questions.. 1 If God is Single person- Whom He was speaking to, when nothing was created? 2 If God is love, with whom He showed his love?

[@mrtee3988]

He was speaking to Yeshua, because he is Gods first creation. Your second question makes no sense.

[@panneerselvam5693]

If Yeshua was created, before that with whom was he speaking..? If my second question is non sense to you, u dont have answer for that? according to you, God the Father statrd to speak after yeshua was created?????

[@TheAfspillingsliste]

Hello Mcx Lead I think that your questions are valid and reasonable, and I, as a Biblical unitarian person who believes in the one true God (John 17:3), would like to try and answer them to the best of my abilities. Your first question: "If God is a single person, to whom was he speaking, if nothing else had been created yet?" First of all, I think it's important to say; if the "let us" in Genesis 1:26 shows that there were someone else than God the Farther present, then it is not a proof of the Trinity - it "just" proofs, that there were someone else present. But really there is other (and in my view more reasonable) ways to read this passage. First there is the well-known point, that the use of "us" in the Hebrew text, is the Plural of Majesty/plural of Emphasis. In Hebrew, when you wish to describe something of immense greatness, you use a plural form. For instance, the word for Heaven in Hebrew is "Shamayim" (Heaven of Heavens), which is plural to emphasize the greatness of the notion of Heaven. There is no single form of this word. This is a well-known concept in Hebrew litterature, when trying to describe something great and when "single"-form just becomes to "poor" to describe it. The concept is also common in other ancient writings. To quote from "The True Belivers Defence" by Charles Morgridge: "The pronouns "us" and our" does not necessarily imply a plurality of persons. It is common in all languages with which we are acquainted, and it appears to have always been so, for an individual, especially if he be a person of great dignity and power, in speaking of himself only, to say "we" "our" "us", instead of "I" "my" and "me". Thus, the King of France says:"We Charles the tenth". The King of Spain says: "We, Ferdinand the seventh". The Emperor of Russia says: "We, Alexander" or "We, Nicholas" (page 93). But you also find this plural of Majesty other places in the Bible itself: "And in the days of Artaxerxes, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia" (Ezra 4:7). Here we see, that these people wrote a letter to Artaxerxes, the King of Persia. Then later in verse 18 we read: "The letter you sent us has been read and translated in my presence". Here we have "sent us", even though we know, that the letter was sent to the King (one person). The word for God used in Genesis 1 (and many many other places in the Hebrew Bible) is Elohim, which is well-known as a plural of majesty. It is used 25 times before the "let us" in verse 26, so it makes perfect sense to continue to write in a "plural of Majesty"-form. My point is, that there are good and valid reasons not to read the Trinity into this passage. Another reason for using "us", could be, that God is actually talking to the angels. The Bible does not tell us, when the angels were created, If you say "God could not have been talking to the angels when he said "let us", because they weren't created yet. We know that they weren't created yet, because the Gen. 1:1-26 don't mention the creation of the angels". But the thing is, that the Bible don't mention the creation of the angels at all. Of cause the angels have been created at some point. Personally I don't see why they could not have been created before Adam. I could make sense, since the angels are helping spirits (Heb 1:14). Your second question: "If God is love, with who did he share his love (before the humans were created)?" (I hope I got your question right?): There is a great assumption in this question, I think. If I understand your question correctly, your reasoning is: God is love (John 4:16), so therefore there must have been someone for God to show his love to - Jesus, and since God is eternal, Jesus must have been with God eternally to receive Gods love. (If I have misunderstood, please correct me, but I will try to answer you from the premise, that I've understood you correctly). Your assumption is, that because God is love, there must always have been someone for him to love. I would then say: God is forever consuming Jesus with fire, because Deut. 4:24 says: "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire". Now I'm assuming that there must always have been someone for God to consume with fire, also before humans were created. That would obviously not be in accordance with the rest of scripture. My point is, that you can not assume, that because God is love, he needed Jesus (or someone else) to love "in eternity". This is how I would answer these questions. I hope this can clarify the (or at least just my) unitarian perspective a little. I really do not like to define my own or anyone else belief in God, with a label like unitarian, Trinitarian or something else. We are all the children of God, and he wants us to repent (reorientate our lives to him) and reason together (Isa 1:18) and all come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). Let's do our best to partake in God's restoration of the fallen shelter of David (Amos 9:11). I hope that we can agre upon Romans 10:9: "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved". God bless

[@robertrodriguez-fk9qt]

Mcx Lead ridiculous questions. if you read the bible you will see God when israel was going to the promise land . God did question him self .not that he was thinking of something to do but he is all knowing . But you will see God talking to himself in that matter. i believe is in Deuteronomy. second question i don't think no one would be having the capacity to think for them self or even know who you are unless if there is some sort of relationship within our self .

[@kemal3599]

You do realise a trinity does not necessarily mean all 3 persons are co-equal, all almighty and does not mean all 3 are necessarily eternal.

[@diggindrums3260]

The Trinity is a pagan concept that existed in many cultures. The Babylonians believed in a Trinity, the Egyptians believed in a Trinity and the Hindos believe in a Trinity. This was a pagan adopted concept by the early church probably influenced by the Romans as Christianity made its way through the empire and their polytheistic views. If you belive in the Trinity you do not believe in one. Three in one is an oxymoron plain and simple. You can't have three and one at the same time that's ridiculous.

[@dustinnyblom7835]

Repent, you misrepresented the trinity a lot here

[@Vinsanity997]

Sam Shamoun himself?! Wasn't expecting that! 102:18

[@Standing_on_the_word]

does anyone else see the fire fall behind Michael Brown at at around 49mins 25sec? how and why did they do that in the video?

[@jobinkoshy8197]

47:50 is a really good moment 👍. I have watched this debate minimum 5 times and I would put it at the top 3 debates I have watched.

[@mynameis......23]

Jesus called Himself God Matthew 7:22-23 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Mark 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” Luke 6:46 46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Revelation 1:17-18 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (God calls Himself the First and the Last in Old Testament Isaiah 41:4, 44;6, 48:12.) Matthew 12:8 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”(Sabbath day is God' Deuteronomy 5:14) John 8:58 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (God's name is "I AM" Exodus 3:14) John 10:29-30 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” Matthew 28:19 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (God forgives sins in old testament, Jesus can also forgive sins) Mark 2:5-7 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” 6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” John 14:11 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. (Disciples calling Jesus God in the GOSPELS and some letters) John 20:28 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Matthew 13:51 51 Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.” Matthew 14:28 28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ Hebrews 1:8 8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Philippians 2:5:11 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 1:1&14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God& John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (Lastly Old Testament said the Messiah will be God)Isaiah 9:6 6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Also way, truth, life is one of 99 names, Jesus called Himself The Way, The Truth, The Life in John 14:6(now mind you these are only the once were Jesus called Himself God in the Gospels and Revelation. I'm not including the once where the apostles called Jesus God in their letters.) _______________________ Jesus said He is the Son of God. John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 17:1-3 17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 9:35-38 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” 38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him. Mark 14:61-62 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:63-64 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 16:15-17 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Luke 22:70 70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.” John 5:23 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 6:67-69 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” ____ GOD calling Jesus His Son Mark 1:9-11 9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11 Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 9:7 7 And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” Matthew 3:17 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

[@skippy8696]

Jeff Durbin is such a troll...I love that man 😂

[@isaiahlowery401]

Dr. Browns reactions had me rolling😂

[@olivia4400]

What happened to the ending????? These debates were awesome!

[@WogChilli]

Why is the moderator on this channel blocking all comments from Christians?

[@thestoneclarksville]

the one Unitarian gentlemen sounds like Malcom McDowell, which is great, because McDowell plays a great super villain.

[@cammy944]

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.

[@josuerivera7921]

Trinity Apologetics, can you make a rebut or comment on the Dr Brown debating Dr. Tuggy? And on John 17:3

[@ea-tr1jh]

I can on John 17:3 If you want. Although I don't knew if you want me to or if you just want Trinity Apologetics to do so.

[@mollkatless]

Beside bringing down the level of discussion, and generally appearing confused and out of his league, what was Good's role in this debate?

[@davidbrainerd1520]

mollkatless I think the debate was really just between James White and Anthony Buzzard. The two Judaizers were just thrown in as a lame attempt to say "Look, a Jew believes in the Trinity so it must be true," and since they decided to include Michael Brown on the Triny side for this purpose, they stuck Buzzard with a Judaizer too. That's my take on it.

[@Fawngdaw]

38:38 his face when the facts were presented lol

[@alfredoaguirre9682]

This video make me understand God clearly one God father son holy spirit

[@7shukur]

Who brings the Massage from God to human? Prophets. Can anyone tell me wich Prophet sead God is three in one?

[@samshields1116]

In response to the Word pitching a tent (I love that phrase I’m gonna use it more often) who does Jesus said that dwells in that tent and does the works according to John 14:10??

[@ronward5698]

There is no power to the crucification, resurrection and salvation if Jesus was not divine. Pretty simple.

[@bobpolo2964]

Amen

[@IronGod1640]

I agree. Only a divine/infinite being could bear the infinite wrath of an infinite God.

[@whatistruth2810]

what verse is that?

[@blansettj]

+Ron Ward +IronGod1640 Scripture never states that the redemption of man requires a divine/infinite man to atone for man's sins, which by the way, the first Adam(one man and a direct creation of God) brought death and separation from God to all men through his sin. The second Adam(Jesus Christ, a direct creation of God through his virgin birth) corrected the first Adam's failure by living his life completely without sin and died on the cross as a sinful man ought, baring our sins and redeeming what was lost by the first Adam. The very problem is that there are two parties whose differences could not be reconciled without a mediator. The two parties being 1) A Holy, incorruptible God who cannot die, and 2) Sinful man. By definition a mediator cannot be a member of either party, therefore Jesus would not be an acceptable mediator if he was a member of either party. We know that he was not incorruptible, otherwise he could not have been tempted as he clearly was, therefore he was definitely not a member of the first party. It is also very clear that he was not a member of sinful man, because he did not sin, therefore he wasn't a member of the second party either. If he was one third of the trinity, that would mean that only his flesh (a tent) died on the cross, and clearly the flesh of any man is not an acceptable sacrifice for the redemption of sinful man. All of who Jesus was died on the cross making him the only acceptable sacrifice and the only possible mediator in this dispute. God could not die for our sins because he can not die. Case closed. If that wasn't clear enough, God does not have a God. Jesus has a God, his God and our God, the Almighty God. Also, the three in one concept is not that difficult to explain clearly, It has been explained quite clearly even during this debate. If God wished to convey this simple concept which man would have obviously needed to know to be saved, if it were true, Jesus would most certainly have had the words to do so, and he most certainly would have done it in a clear and concise manner. He did not! That alone is proof enough for me. To suggest that God would bumble such a critical message in his word, which would be required if we were to believe that all of these feeble, ambiguous scriptures are proof of the trinity, is absolutely absurd to my logical mind. In other words, if it were true, God would have been very clear on the matter because it introduces an entirely new concept that was not made clear in The Old Testament. Jesus came to reveal The Almighty God, he would not have been so subversive about such a matter that leaves our salvation hanging in the balance. Therefore, the very concept of the trinity wreaks of a subversive doctrine brought into being to create confusion and chaos. That is not a character trait of the God I serve. Make sure you focus on your relationships with God first and foremost! I was no less saved when I believed in the trinity than I am now. If we have a right relationship with God, he will not hold our error in doctrine against us, I guarantee it. Walk with Him, talk with Him, bare good fruit, believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sin free life, died on the cross for your sins, was resurrected on the third day, and live your life as though you believe these things and God will meet you where you are. I have no doubt that there will be both those who believe in the trinity, and those who don’t that will be with God through all eternity, only one group will finally change their minds once God tells us which one is the truth. I’m not sure what the complete doctrine of Unitarianism encompasses, but I’m in agreement with them on this point. God Bless all of you for searching for the truth!

[@mitsudang1]

That is not true. You have no verse to back that up. He had to be a man to redeem man. Exodus 12:5 states that the sacrifice for sin must be taken from the sheep or from the goats. I.e., he had to be one of the flock. God is not a man and therefore could not redeem man. It had to be a MAN without spot or blemish.

[@kyledavis5530]

These non trinitarians are spiritually blind. They can't comprehend it because they are not allowing the Holy Spirit to give them understanding. Smh

[@brianpalmer4560]

Love watching Brown and White together. Dr. Brown loves debates so much.

[@deusx.machinaanime.3072]

Yes, often see Dr. Brown smiling. I think he was enjoying it all. 😅😊

[@Paladinjayson]

Funny to watch this debate in 2023, and see James White, Michael Brown, Jeff Durbin and Sam Shamoun all make appearances.

[@genac74]

For those who have not come to the truth that Jesus is God. This is a great video to watch.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

genac74 this isn’t a good video, but only because the Unitarian side is really not shown well at all when it has some serious points that really do need to be taken seriously and addressed by the rest of Christendom.

[@imoregloopual4725]

I guess you would tell That the reason john wrote the book of John is to let us know that Jesus is God but he said to let us know that Jesus is the son of God. The bible declares that God was in Christ....Jesus said all power is given to him...may more all those things must start at the point that Jesus is the son of God.. which is greater Jesus is God or Jesus is the Son of God

[@Hezron389]

Oh my goodness the Unitarians NEVER deal with scripture that contradicts their heresy !!!

[@FineWineFletch]

If Jesus didn't pre-exist, who did meshach, shadrach and abednego see in the fire?

[@Skipadyboi]

49:40 is that Jeff Durbin??

[@MatchObox]

All Glory to God! Jesus Christ is Lord.

[@michaelphiffer23]

Patsor Jeff! Awesome pastor of Apologia church!

[@HerreraFamilyAdventures]

Okay but the Cherry on top of everything was the Cameo of Jeff Durbin 😂

[@quillion0877]

I enjoy listening to debates and I've heard my fair share of debates between Christianity and Islam. I have to say I'm very surprised to hear the Islamic position at 25:15 - 25:35 from a Unitarianism position

[@choicemeatrandy6572]

It's shocking sir Anthony actually believes Jesus' existence started in Mary's womb. That's appalling.

[@chrisoliverdelacruz5347]

james White on 7:20 haha

[@ETHANGELIST]

Haha! Great spot there. I've watched this debate several times and don't think I remember that :-)

[@chrisoliverdelacruz5347]

Actually, I just recognized it just today after watching it several times...haha

[@ETHANGELIST]

Haha! Excellent By the way, please pray for brother White for his Friday evening debate against Iglesia Ni Cristo. I have several videos against them. They're a cult founded in the Philippines and have a Socinian type Christology like Buzzard. Jesus began in the womb of Mary to them. Please pray that brother White preaches with passion and conviction but also compassion and love.

[@chrisoliverdelacruz5347]

ohhh by the way, the reason why I am watching this again together with his debates on Jehovah's witness is that I know that there is this debate on Friday. Actually, I am a Filipino, and I am aware of what they are teaching...They are truly ANTI-TRINITARIAN. There was a time when an INC member asked Karl Keating. She asked "Show me the word TRINITY in the BIBLE. I do not like you to show me the CONCEPT. Show me the word TRINITY." and then the audience was just wild. anyways, I'll pray for him.

[@Jxs1ah]

Haha! A young Sam Shamoun and Jeff Durbin in the crowd! Great servants of Christ!

[@nicolasflores8510]

The Triune God: Is a mystery, 3 Persons one God, is like a 3 candles with one light. [How can you explain why there's only 1 light? and not 3. Mystery]

[@malcolmrobertson8941]

This is in fact not simply a point of opinion to be discussed but a matter of life and death. As spoken about in the debate John 8 v 24 reads "I said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins." Read William Romaine's short article entitled "The self-existence of Jesus Christ". He puts it very plainly without mincing his word. John 8 v 24 must not be ignored.

[@The-End-is-coming]

59:20 jeff durbin: the before years

[@ELishaJesus1980]

I don't know why but I think you are gorgeous

[@duke-swtmate4154]

Zechariah 2:10 (in some versions it is 2:14): "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee." So God is speaking that he will come to earth and talks on earth about God having sent him?! Unitarians will have problems explaining that without accepting that Jesus Christ as Yahveh. ;-)

[@travislee1012]

Fitting that Jeff Durbin is there and the first one to ask a question. Look how young he looks lol. And Sam shamoun! How did all these power houses end up in the same building!

[@davidwenger9821]

The question no one asks sheol v hades. Do any of them say that your loved one is now in heaven at the funeral? How can the dead in Christ raise 1st if they aren't still asleep?

[@thenopasslook]

Such a great joy to see your heroes defending the triune God. And even better, Jeff durbin before the beard and Sam in the audience!!!!! We're all in this together!!

[@TheCaledonianBoy]

+Bryson Townsend It is sad indeed to see those teachers of the 3 person God misleading so many and being admired for it

[@thenopasslook]

TheCaledonianBoy Jesus Is God!!! A. Implicit Christology 1. Divine functions performed by Jesus a. In relation to the universe (1) Creator (John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2) (2) Sustainer (1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3) (3) Author of life (John 1:4; Acts 3:15) (4) Ruler (Matt. 28:18; Rom. 14:9; Rev. 1:6) b. In relation to human beings (1) Healing the sick (Mark 1:32-34; Acts 3:6; 10:38) (2) Teaching authoritatively (Mark 1:21-22; 13:31) (3) Forgiving sins (Mark 2:1-12; Luke 24:47; Acts 6:31; Col. 3:13) (4) Granting salvation or imparting eternal life (Acts 4:12; Rom. 10:12-14) (5) Dispensing the Spirit (Matt. 3:11; Acts 2:17, 33) (6) Raising the dead (Luke 7:11-17; John 5:21; 6:40) (7) Exercising judgment (Matt. 25:31-46; John 5:19-29; Acts 10:42; 1 Cor. 4:4-6) 2. Divine status claimed by or accorded to Jesus a. In relation to his Father (1) Possessor of divine attributes (John 1:4; 10:30; 21:17; Eph. 4:10; Col. 1:19; 2:9) (2) Eternally existent (John 1:1; 8:58; 12:41; 17:5; 1 Cor. 10:4; Phil. 2:6; Heb. 11:26; 13:8; Jude 5) (3) Equal in dignity (Matt. 28:19; John 5:23; 2 Cor. 13:14; Rev. 22:13; cf. 21:6) (4) Perfect revealer (John 1:18; 14:9; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:1-3) (5) Embodiment of truth (John 1:9, 14; 6:32; 14:6; Rev. 3:7,14) (6) Joint possessor of the kingdom (Eph. 5:5; Rev. 11:15), churches (Rom. 16:16), Spirit (Rom. 8:9; Phil. 1:19), temple (Rev. 21:Z), divine name (Matt 28:19; cf. Rev. 14:1), and throne (Rev. 22:1, 3) b. In relation to human beings (1) Recipient of praise (Mat 21:16-16; Eph. 6:19; 1 Tim. 1:12; Rev. 5:8-14) (2) Recipient of prayer (Acts 1:24; 7:59-60; 9:10-17,21; 22:16,19; 1 Cor. 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:8) (3) Object of saving faith (John 14:1; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Rom. 10:8-13) (4) Object of worship (Matt 14:33; 28:9,17; John 5:23; 20:28; Phil 2:10-11; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 5:8-12) (5) Joint source of blessing (1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; 1 Thess. 3:11; 2 Thess. 2:16) (6) Object of doxologies (2 Tim 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5b-6; 5:13). B. Explicit Christology 1. Old Testament passages refering to Yahweh applied to Jesus a. Character of Yahweh (Exod. 3:14 and Isa 43:11 alluded to in John 8:68; Ps. 101:27-28 LXX 1MT 102:28-291 quoted in Heb. 1:11-12; Isa 44:6 aSuded to in Rev. 1:17) b. Holiness of Yahweh (Isa 8:12-13 [cf. 29:23] quoted in 1 Pet.3:14-15) c. Descriptions of Yahweh (Ezek. 43:2 and Dan. 10:6-6 alluded to in Rev. 1:13-16) d. Worship of Yahweh (Isa 45:23 alluded to in Phil. 2:10-11; Deut. 32:43 LXX and Ps. 96:7 LXX [MT 97:7] quoted in Heb. 1:6) e. Work of Yahweh in creation (Ps. 101:26 LXX [MT 102:27] quoted in Heb. 1:10) f. Salvation of Yahweh (Joel 2:32 [MT 3:5] quoted in Rom. 10:13; cf. Acts 2:21; Isa 40:3 quoted in Matt. 3:3) g. Trustworthiness of Yawheh (Isa 28:16 quoted in Rom. 9:33; 10:11; 1 Pet. 2:6) h. Judgment of Yahweh (Isa 6:10 alluded to in John 12:41; Isa 8:14 quoted in Rom. 9:33 and 1 Pet. 2:8) i. Triumph of Yahweh (Ps. 68:18 [MT v. 19] quoted in Eph. 4:8) 2. Divine titles claimed by or applied to Jesus a. Son of Man (Matt. 16:28; 24:30; Mark 8:38; 14:62-64; Acts 7:56) b. Son of God (Matt.11:27; Mark 15:39; John 1:18; Rom. 1:4; Gal.4:4; Heb. 1:2) c. Messiah (Matt. 16:16; Mark 14:61; John 20:31) d. Lord (Mark 12:36-37; John 20:28; Rom. 10:9, 1 Cor. 8:6-6; 12:3; 16:22; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 2:3; 3:15) e. Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13; cf. 1:8; 21:6, of the Lord God) f. God (John 1:1,18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1).

[@TheCaledonianBoy]

+Bryson Townsend That is a lot of scripture you are using to prove that Jesus is God, a person of the trinity. Brown said at the end of the video that we have shown many scriptures that support the trinity. The issue I have is that neither he, or you, with all those verses provide not one single verse that clearly tells us that God is a 3 person God or that Jesus is God. If there was one it would have been listed by you, Brown would have shown it. On the other hand. That God is one person, the Father, is clearly taught throughout the inspired word. Lets take the first verses you chose to prove Jesus is the Creator. In relation to the universe (1) Creator (John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2) John 1:3 "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. Col 1:16 "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. Heb 1:2 "in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." I will add one from number (2) 1 Cor 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." From these verses you have Jesus as the Creator. Is that really what we are told here and elsewhere? Firstly each verse tells us that creation is "through" (or "by" KJV) Look at Heb 1:2 God (Father) appointed Jesus heir of the world that He "made". That being the case who is the Creator according to this passage? It clearly says that the Father is, not the Son whom creation came "through". This is further demonstrated at 1 Cor 8:6 where Paul makes two distinctions between God and Jesus. The "one God" is the Father "from" from whom all things came". The power and source of Creation. The one Lord Jesus "through whom all things came". The mediator of creation. Jesus himself did not see himself as the Creator "And he answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female," Matt 19:4 "He" is the Father. In Revelation 4 we read this of the Father "the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.” The "Him who sits on the throne is the Father" as we see in the next chapter the He is approached by the the Son. It was the "Him who sits on the throne" who "created all things.

[@thenopasslook]

TheCaledonianBoy Those verses do prove that Jesus is God. The reason you’re saying what you’re saying is because you’re not reading them. I don’t need one verse that says “God is triune” for the Trinity to be a Biblical concept. That’s a standard that is being forced onto the text but it flies in the face of Biblical testimony to the nature of God. You must IGNORE a lot of scripture to be a Unitarian. You’re trying to highlight verses where the Father is distinguished from the Son and then you claim that this means the Bible teaches Unitarianism. This is wrong in light of the other verses I posted proving that Jesus is God but not the Father. The Trinity is the only way to account for everything the Bible says.

[@TheCaledonianBoy]

Bryson Townsend I am familiar with all the verses you cited. I decided to discuss the first ones you used as I did not want to look like I was cherry picking. Tell me this Bryson. Who does Hebrews 1:2 say made the world? The Father or the Son?

[@junie9417]

nice question sam shamoun.

[@Breadz-]

I just noticed just now after watching this quite a number of times Sam Shammoun was @1:00:00 asking a questions.

[@DamianS1893]

God bless Doctor Brown and his Comrade... I completely agree with these gentlemen... I'm learning great Jewish History listening to Dr Brown

[@Alec_Cox]

In Genesis 1:1 There is a *Trinity of Trinities* = All made at once, "In the Beginning (TIME) God Created the Heaven (SPACE) and the Earth (MATTER) Time = Past, Present, Future Space = LxWxH Matter = Solid, liquid, gas The Unitarian belief limits God to the puny 3lb brain of a created man. Blessed by the Spirit of the Spaceless (No bounds), Timeless (Eternal), and Immaterial (not confined by matter) God will enable these Unitarians to get out of their Modalist heresy. One thing that the oneness Pentecostals and Unitarian, Jehovah's Witness, Islam, etc do not believe, whether intentionally, or decwotfully, is that they limit the Creator to their own human and earthly boundaries. Christ was not fathered by Joseph, but Mary was made pregnant by the Holy Spirit with the natural Chromosomes of the DNA that already existed within Mary.. BTW, Joseph is never mentioned, other than when Christ is being mocked in His return to Nazareth. Certainly God can have unity in plurality with Jesus Christ entering into material earth, yet abilities of, and attributes the living Creator God. The Spirit is the indwelling of the Created that convicts and comforts the heart of man. The Father dwells in the immaterial (different than Spirit) world of heaven. 3 persons 1 God (unity) On earth bound by laws of nature and time Unitarian humans say 1+1+1 Spiritual is *1x1x1* = 1 Spaceless, Timeless, and Immaterial God. You cannot put God in a box.

[@Sirach144]

That's a poor way to try to find who God is by trying to say time space and matter. Because what do you do when you have North South East West. Up down left right. 4 primary colors. You can't use that as a doctrine.

[@Alec_Cox]

@@Sirach144 So, you don't believe that God spoke the universe and all that is in it, including Matter, if you didn't have space where would you put the matter and without time, when (time) would you put it? Primary colors cannot exist without Space, Time, or Matter that God created Ex Nihilo (literally out of nothing that never existed before)? Think before you critize God's majesty and love to bring you into His world.

[@codytownsend3259]

OH WOW. SAM! WOOOT =)

[@IronGod1640]

And Jeff Durbin!

[@RickGovindsamy]

Very well debated. Very professional. Learnt a lot. So civilized.

[@ttff-bd2yf]

25:20 blue shirt guy concedes his position says Jesus could not resurrect. Please tell me how he's a christian

[@sirrom7997]

Trinity or worship a non God. 48:00 said it all. Good point by michael brown.

[@UMAKEMESMILESWACKIN]

THE UNITARIAN GUY WAS DUMBFOUNDED HAHAHHA 38:13

[@EUguitarRULE]

umakemesmile

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

I’m sure Anthony had something to say, but if I was with him what I would say is first of all even if there were no vowel pointing, these texts were still read out loud by the population, so do we imagine that whenever scribes or even lay people were discussing this psalm they would say to each other that Yahweh was talking to Yahweh, who by the way was his own Davidic King? And that we never find anyone talking about this in Jewish literature or trying to figure out the craziness of a verse that says that Yahweh is two people and talking to himself and will be his own Davidic King???...c’mon Secondly, and I can’t be sure of this, but I’m going to guess that when Anthony said that the Greek makes a distinction he means that the Septuagint translates the second Lord as my Lord or the Lord of me. Seeing as how you can’t say “my Yahweh/Adonai”, or at least it’s never found anywhere most likely meaning it was not a way of speaking, The septuagint translators did not think the second Lord was Adonai.

[@RedDwarfism]

He was exasperated there's a difference he mentality felt the pain of the level of falsehood sat before him.

[@russellafleur3956]

What is their view about God saying "let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness" in the book of Genesis??? Just curious

[@darsom2717]

+Russel LaFleur I seen one comment on part 1 of this debate saying that "God is known for talking to Himself" in some verse or another, I couldn't really take in the reference because of the words "God is known for talking to Himself"!

[@2mexpesos]

Darso M Seriously?! Wow 🤦🏻‍♀️ I must have missed that.. I will have to watch it again. It is so sad how they say things like that about our God as if he is not an omnipotent God.

[@darsom2717]

@YazChildOfTh OneTrueKing Yes, sorry, I should have taken note of the time. I'm going to watch again to and add the timestamp to the comment. Again, sorry I didn't brother/sister. God bless you.

[@darsom2717]

@YazChildOfThe OneTrueKing Sorry brother/sister, it was ion the comment section, I just sat and watched the debate again twice trying to find it before I realized it was a comment by someone. If I can find it again, I'll quote it here for you.

[@2mexpesos]

Darso M No problem! There are many trolls in the comment section on theses types of videos. As a trinity believer it makes no sense when people say "God talks to himself"!?? God bless!

[@yirmeyahugutz6217]

1:00:44 Am i missing something? I've read three different versions and none of them read as the verse shown in the clip. All three versions, the highly beloved NKJV included, say, "No one has seen God, but the only brought forth Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared Him. And furthermore, if the son is brought forth, shouldn't that right there end all discussions? To be brought forth is to have a beginning. So you might say, yes begotten in the human form, but eternal prior. Then can someone help a brother out and explain Proverbs 8:22-30? In context, at the beginning of chapter 8, wisdom is speaking as a fully cognitive being. The chapter goes on to refer to her as a female. By the time you get to verse 22, this wisdom begins to say something very interesting. Verse 25, "Before mountains were sunk, before the hills, i was brought forth..." Who was brought forth? Is there a goddess of some type predating creation that i am unaware of? All comments welcome. From either the uni or trinity camps.

[@thomasremmers8250]

Holy spirit

[@cindyisa10]

I fear Unitarians have not seriously investigated the full implications of creature theology. The only possibly viable explanation for the immense suffering, famines, tsunamis, earthquakes, cancer, disease, and a multitude of other natural evils can only be found in a theodicy that personally places Yahweh himself at the center of all of our suffering. Yahweh must personally take on our suffering and personally experience it to be justified in permitting so much of it. Unfortunately, creature theology is bereft of providing such a theodicy. This is its biggest deathblow. It posits a god who takes a backseat role by sending a mere-creature to carry out what is considered to be the most intimate and loving act for humanity. God watches with almost complete pitiless indifference and permits humans to suffer the most outrageous horrific natural evils. As you can see, creature theology has god puting the burden on someone other than himself. If suffering on the cross isn’t Yahweh’s suffering, then Yahweh becomes a sick-minded mean-spirited capricious moral prick who demands nothing but perfect blood sacrifice in the face of gratuitous pain. This is one of the most morally pernicious gods I can imagine. How can ANYONE reasonably believe such a deficient and defective view of god? This is the kind of theology that seems to entail when people sit in the comfort of their libraries having little exposure to the cold reality of the human condition. Therefore, I seriously implore Unitarians to consider the problem of natural evil and see if creature theology can adequately demonstrate god’s love. Unitarians should ask themselves why god didn’t personally come himself and suffer the pain that he permits all of us to suffer?

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

+cindyisa10 Wow cindy, i'm subbing you. I love how you reason and think. Well said!! Brovo!!

[@cindyisa10]

***** YOU SAY: "you have replaced the Truth with your philosophy. And then you are utterly clueless about Unitarian theology, but you spout error." RESPONSE: How so? Please elaborate with evidence instead of simply asserting. Don't think for a second that I haven't done my homework. Lastly, I wasn't raised in a trinitarian home and used to be an atheist. God bless you.

[@cindyisa10]

***** "And then you are utterly clueless about Unitarian theology, but you spout error." I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I'm clueless about Unitarian theology. Please DEMONSTRATE. Take care!

[@cindyisa10]

***** "you need to demonstrate why you think your opinion represents Unitarian Theology. it is your OP....that is in error..." With all respect, this conversation is just outright silly. You're asserting that my opinion doesn't represent Unitarian Theology. Therefore, please explain your assertion and how I'm wrong about Unitarian Theology. Finally, I have nothing but respect for Unitarians. I don't see why we can't have a fruitful discussion. "LOL....the atheists are "still waiting" for us to DEMONSTRATE evidence that God exists...." Irrelevant!

[@pretoshohmoofcguy6523]

***** If Jesus was a Unitarian, then He wouldn't have applied a Yahweh verse to himself. Mark 14:62

[@hopelives9307]

A Fantastic Lively Debate.....(Low volume though)

[@BrandonClapp]

I feel like every single question was something like this... Trinitarians: "If Jesus was not God, explain to me how how could he X" Unitarians: "He could do X because he was empowered by God to do so" It seems like the NT is so overwhelmingly abundant with examples of how Jesus and God are one.

[@cryptoidmonkey3985]

And that's the main problem with Trinitarians - they don't understand the OT - they just follow the Pagan Roman Catholic party line. Which is exactly what Jesus points to (the OT) when he is accused of equality with GOD. Jesus CORRECTS those misunderstanding Jews by pointing to scriptures which call MEN GODS. Modern Christians have no concept of God manifestation or WHY Jesus pointed to that particular scripture. Do You?

[@maxspringer01]

I saw someone somewhere post numerous actions saying that Jesus could only have done them if He were God. The problem is, there really is direct Scripture to back up that "Jesus could do X because He was empowered by God to do so." Here are a few examples I can think of: Claim #1: Only God can forgive sins. Jesus forgave sins; therefore, Jesus is God. Response #1: Matthew 9:5-6, 8 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But I want you to know that *the Son of Man has authority* on earth to forgive sins.”.... 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and *they praised God, who had given such authority to man.* We can see that these verses show God had given the authority to Jesus to forgive sins. Claim #2: Only God can give zoe life. Jesus said, "I have come that you might have life (zoe)", therefore, Jesus is God. Response #2: John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, *so he has granted the Son also* to have life in himself. This verse says that God the Father granted this to Jesus. Claim #3: Only God has all authority. Jesus said He has all authority; therefore, Jesus is God. Response #3: Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth *has been given* to me. If Jesus is God, He already has all authority and there is none of this "given to me". God the Father gave Jesus all authority.

[@zeitschnur]

Mister Brown is always interrrupting the unitarians, he is always speaking "like a book". That's bad and a bad testimony for his convictions. He's not able zu listen to another man, wants always hear himself, how should he can do that reagrding the scipture? Si in that way the debate is a bit manipulating.

[@krisztianpatay9812]

Dr Brown is making a point rather than interrupting. He speaks with knowledge. That is not a bad thing. On top of that He backs it up with scriptures.

[@PIAK_08]

after watching this i am interested in Biblical Unitarian...

[@5points714]

Are you kidding me? Why?

[@mbmb729]

@@5points714 maybe because there is one and only one indivisible, incorporeal, uncreated, changeless, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God

[@5points714]

@@mbmb729 Yes there is, and three Persons share the one Being that is God. That's what the Bible simply teaches.

[@tylerworrell4446]

Biblical unitarian is an oxymoron

[@paullavoie5542]

I can't help but see the Trinity in the scripture, one would have to look pretty hard not to see it.

[@dalkeiththomas9352]

I agree tbh

[@leonardhunt7241]

It’s a shame they don’t go to Proverbs 30:4 he and his son who created, wouldn’t this show family as father and son?

[@leonardhunt7241]

Such a shame that they don’t go to Philippians 2:6 which shows the Word (but speaking of the Word as the created mortal man Jesus) had his own God’s (God material) Spirit body, emptied himself Philippians 2:7a, put on the form of a servant Philippians 2:7b. Could an IT wear a body of God material as the God of Israel wore (John 8:17-18, 1st Corinthians 2:9-11 which includes a spirit of man within 1st Corinthians 2:11) ?