Trying To Understand The Snyderverse... 3 Years Later

[@tpeters85]

The scene of Superman “sacrificing” his dad to the tornado in Man of Steel made no logical sense. Pa Kent is preaching to Clark to make his own choices, while also persuading Clark to NOT save him even though he wanted to.

[@Zarastro54]

That’s what I was saying when Gold described it. The apparent intent of the scene did not meld with what it ACTUALLY portrayed. Likewise, there are very few scenarios where Clark _wouldn’t_ be “forced” to reveal himself if his choice was to use his powers to save people. Because saving people means that there is a crisis that needs resolving.

[@THAMAINMAN2025]

Zack Snyder is deranged.

[@jacobtuttle4311]

Agreed

[@lifestylemood]

Saw someone say somewhere that Johnathan Kent was suicidal throughout the film & i lold

[@marcosdheleno]

@@Zarastro54 i keep bringing this up, the scene of clark asking his father if he should just let people die, and he says maybe ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN OTHER VERSIONS, more specifically, the 90's animated series, AND the atrocious 90's romcom lois & Clark. the irony is, those 2 actually did it well. because, they showed the intent of the "maybe" to be, simply "i dont know, i just dont want to see you hurt". in the L&C series they go beyond that, his mother interjects, and question the father if he is insane for saying something like that. and then, both clark and his father go to talk about it, where he tells him that he is proud of him, BUT that he worries that clark may get hunt down even though he intend to help others, since not everyone will see him like that. that scene works because it shows, not only that the father loves clark, that he proud of clark saving people, but that he is also someone who doesnt really knows how to express himself properly. finally, the biggest diference is, those scenes happen, WHEN CLARK IS AN ADULT. so he is able to think for himself, and do it, even though he understands how dangerous it is to himself. MoS spends all its time, pummeling clark into NOT being a hero, into NOT saving others. and guess what, when it comes to the fight, he only end up actively saving 2 people. and completely disregard the safety of everyone else. because this clark, learned that he SHOULD NOT prioritize the lives of others, that he should do the bare minimum. and above all, that he is DIFERENT, he isnt human. hell, he even talks as if he lived his entire life in a diferent planet. the biggest joke, is how he learns how to "human" from his space dad, while his earth dad just wants him to become moses 2.0

[@vadalia3860]

There's an extra problem with the "Martha" scene in BvS- Batman already knows Clark has a mother. Earlier in that same scene he talks about/mocks Clark with the idea of Clark's mom and dad having told him he's special his whole life, etc. So Batman already has a mental conceptualization of Clark's parents solid enough to have imagined what KIND of parents they were , so it shouldn't be some big realization to him later that, oh yeah, this guy does have a mom just because he said her name (whatever that name happens to be)

[@marcosdheleno]

EXACTLY. the moment he said "save martha" he should've stabbed clark through the chest because that was proof that the "thing" infront of him was a manipulative being, that might even use his "mother" to try and save himself. imagine how much stronger that scene would hit if as bruce is about to stab clark, clark begs, "please, save my mother". THAT would make bruce stop. and question it. and that's when lois should come and explain to him, that clark's mother is called martha kent. at which point, bruce should stop drop the spear and start laughing. realizing the irony of the situation. and while both clark and lois are confused, he would reach his hand, to help clark get up. not because their mothers have the same name. but because at that moment he saw in clark's eyes, the same look, HE had as a kid, when he couldnt save his own mother. and that's how he should realize the humanity in Clark.

[@wolfzeru5745]

​@@marcosdheleno Honestly, the whole fight made no sense, just Snyder trying to rip off the iconic battle from TDKR with no substance, and the resolution was even worse. The world's biggest detective doesn't know how much Clark cares about his mother. Batman is supposed to see the good in people. I get that this Batman lost all his hope after Robin's death, which doesn't explain why he didn't kill the Joker in this universe. At the end of the film, they want us to believe Clark made him recover his hope again, is just terribly executed. He started killing with no remorse after 20 years of having a no killing rule, he doesn't feel guilty nor he regrets what he did. It's laughably bad

[@coreyc5982]

​@wolfzeru5745 I'll also add that the fight scene was very one-sided. Clearly, Snyder is a Batman fanboy (or at least he thinks he is) because he went out of his way to have Batman humiliate Superman in the fight. Zack Snyder gave the character of Superman no respect for his powers and, more importantly, no respect for Superman's intelligence. Aside from getting knocked around a couple of times, Batman dominated that entire fight as he got in far more strikes and blows than Superman. A better director would have given both characters their respect when it comes to combat and made the fight much closer in terms of who the actual victor is. Joe and Anthony Russo understood this with the far superior "Captain America: Civil War." Although it was Cap's movie, they respected the character of Iron-Man and gave him his due credit when it came to the confrontation with Cap. Captain America may have won the fight but it wasn't a cake-walk, not by a long shot.

[@panonymousbloom5405]

​@@marcosdhelenoclark saying "no, please, save my mom!" could have been gut wrenching. But "Martha" not only makes it laughable, it also just further others Superman from the humanity. It's not "his mom", it's "Martha", that person he grew up with. I just- *sigh

[@marcosdheleno]

@@panonymousbloom5405 EXACTLY. it just goes to prove that bruce was right in trying to kill him. noone talks about their mother like that. the biggest joke is, if snyder were to continue making the movies, that superman would turn into injustice superman. further making this one of the worst version of superman.

[@JediPastorAaron]

I have been a major Superman fan since I was a kid, and I was not thrilled with this depiction of him. I get the trope that maybe he was being formed into the Superman we all know and love, but traditionally, that has come about through being raised in the home of Jonathan and Martha Kent. Not Through having to kill Zod

[@jacobtuttle4311]

My issue as Superman fan wasn't him killing Zod. I'm fine with a darker take on the character who's limited in what he can do and is willing to kill the villain if it means saving innocent lives. My problem is the movies never show Superman caring about humanity. My favorite part of man of steel was the speech Jor-el gave to Kal in the trailer for the movie about elevating mankind up with him so that they could join him in the stars. The speech itself still gives me goosebumps but what we got was a depressed brooding loner who struggles to find value in people and has to be forced to rise to the challenge. He doesn't try to save anyone outside of Lois and the one fighter pilot. His entire focus is on punching the bad guys into buildings so that they explode like he's a toddler fascinated by the destruction he's causing. Like the scene in MoS where Zod kicks a gas tanker truck at Superman and Superman just casually jumps over it only for it to crash into the building behind him and explode. Like there's zero attempt at damage mitigation and the movies make it come across like he could give a shit what happens to people that he doesn't personally know. It tries to force that sentiment in right at the end right before the neck snap but by that point I'm so far from being sold on it. And then BvS opens up with a montage of him being miserable helping people. Superman can kill, Christopher Reeves Superman killed Zod and his lackies but those movies made you want to root for him because he's a great person who genuinely wants to do the right thing and enjoys helping people. My favorite version of superman is the animated series and justice league because they make him feel the most human. They strike a great balance between his paragon of truth and justice demeanor and his shortening fuse as the series progresses. He loses his cool, he gets angry, he threatens people and even expresses his desire and willingness to see darkseid die but those flaws make him feel more human and he always allows for others to bring him back down to earth. Most importantly he wants to be a hero that people look up to and aspire to be and that keeps him level

[@Andrew-sy6on]

The thing with man of steel & BVS is that when Snyder came on, there were already pre existing scripts; while justice league was one he developed with Chris Terrio. This is According to an interview Terrio did after the release of the Snyder cut. Snyder was a hired gun with man of steel taking on a story developed by Goyer & Nolan; he then added his ideas on top of that. According to Terrio Warner brothers gave them the BVS script, and many of the “extreme” ideas, like lex having them fight, Batman branding criminals, the Martha reveal and a Doomsday fight were all studio mandated requirements that Terrio and Snyder then had to make work through rewrites. They, and this is according to Terrio, didn’t gain the freedom to tell their own story till Justice league; which is one of the big reasons Snyder was so upset, because justice league was his first DCU film where he had full creative control, that is, until the shake-up

[@elishawilson5342]

Maybe that's why I love Zack Snyder's Justice league the most and I love all the Snyder verse movies but his Justice league holds a special place in my heart just like the dark knight does as well

[@puichiung2959]

I recall reading way back in maybe 2012 Snyder said he initially wanted to do a MOS 2 when studio was trying to push forward with a JL movie. Snyder said when he just mentioned Batman, the studio immediately told him they wanted a BvS film, and the rest is history.

[@joelmathew6542]

I think Terrio is trying to save face here. Netflix gave Snyder full creative control and look what he has done with it.

[@Davon85J]

Yeah, I’m not sure I buy Terrio’s account of events. Terrio wrote Rise of Skywalker for gods sake. Plus, why would WB demand the Batman branding storyline? I can see Lex and Doomsday being mandated but that’s it.

[@wolfzeru5745]

​@@Davon85JBatman branding criminals is dumb and edgy, but I think it's a better depiction of a cruel Batman. A murderer Batman with no remorse, on the other hand, that's a terrible take on the character

[@christaylor7079]

My favorite part of Batman V Superman is that the editing room removed 10-15 seconds of context out of nearly every scene in that film causing it to careen wildly between storylines with little logical cohesion. The director’s cut, which had all those unedited scenes, was only about 15 minutes longer but made a lot more sense. It was by no means a good movie, but why they decided to do a theatrical release that was a 4/10 when they had a barely longer 6/10 just laying around I’ll never understand

[@DylanMadd]

I love that movie. Everything except Lex and his stupid plan. What was Lex going to do if Doomsday killed Clark - the only person who could possibly stop him? Makes no sense. Even if you drill down on it.

[@Skute]

The ultimate edition is 30 mins longer. The better question is why did Snyder film a 3h rated R Batman and Superman movies when clearly DC would never release that in theaters.

[@christaylor7079]

@@Skute I hate to say it because this video clearly isn’t intended to be a bash fest against Snyder but the simple answer to your question is that he’s extremely pretentious. And unlike other pretentious directors like Chris Nolan or Tarantino, he isn’t a good enough artist to justify his pretentiousness

[@IronLad-wn1ih]

​@@Skuteit's obvious Snyder shoot those after the backlash that he received for BvS. He just added some deleted footage and shoot some r rated stuff in name of ultimate edition. Just look at his movies pattern, he does same with each and every movie. He will listen to the criticism and tries to fix it in name of director's extended cut.

[@IronLad-wn1ih]

​@@Skute He did same with justice league. Wb would never allow a 4 hour R rated team up superhero movie. Right now he is following his trend on Netflix. He can't make a decent movie so does this cheap tactics of director's cut. There ain't single director that needs director cut for each and every movie that they made.

[@domhuckle]

I hate shaky cam so much

[@TheFedoraFederalist]

BVS is a good example of learning to balance subtlety and obviousness. We don’t need to be told everything, but it’s important to sprinkle in enough for us to get a good enough understanding to fill the gaps from the subtle parts. It’s like a good mystery movie, we should have the clues given to us so that we can put it together ourselves but it not be super obvious. Just obvious enough for us to eventually get it on our own.

[@EternityFandom]

Which is exactly why BvS is more rewatchable than most of the other CBMs. After every watch you'll find something new.

[@laisensei6984]

When you put it like that, the first few movies come to my mind are Nolan’s Prestige and Inception.

[@TheFedoraFederalist]

@@laisensei6984 Exactly. Inception is one of my favorites because it balances subtleties and obvious parts well. Just enough for us to not be lost and casual viewers to enjoy, but deeper parts for audience members to discern for themselves.

[@laisensei6984]

@@TheFedoraFederalist Personally, I find one of the common traits about good mystery stories is that they are good at making "reductions", making the mystery they are showing just simple enough to for you to see where the clues and gaps could be (without accidentally spoiling or spoon feeding you the answer) but also complex enough to make you do appropriate amount of brain work for piecing the puzzles together (instead of stressing your mind way too much to figure out what's going on), and at times give you a sense of achievement when you finally solve the puzzle. The are some mystery film directors and story writers that simply got way too obsessed with making a complex mystery that they tend to forget the above.

[@44excalibur]

BVS was complete garbage.

[@wolfzeru5745]

My favorite part of BvS was when I turned it off, and put TDK instead

[@robertnicolas6977]

Zack Snyder man of steel, Batman versus superman, and Justice League, three of the greatest movies I think I ever saw. I've seen watchmen probably 50 times. I love that adaptation of the comic book, made for mature audiences.

[@GiuseppeMario-d8y]

As a Superman fan since childhood, Man of Steel was not great. But _Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice_ was pure torture from start to finish. Felt like Frank Miller was sitting on my left eating every item from the theater concession stand cheering "Yeah, f#ck you! Superman _sucks,_ Batman ROCKS!" and wiping his greasy, butter and mustard stained hands on my collection of Superman comics, while on my right Zack Snyder was poking me in the shoulder every 15 minutes going "Do you get it? Do you get it? See it's dark, so that means it's smart. Do you get it?"

[@thegoldman25]

Thoughts on ZSJL?

[@GiuseppeMario-d8y]

​@@thegoldman25 Dull, portentous, and the more I hear about where Snyder wanted to take it the happier I am that ain't happening.

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

Nah, pure nonsense. Snyder's trilogy were an experimental deconstruction of modern mythology that just required people... to pay attention

[@marcosdheleno]

13:39 except clark NEVER becomes that superman. he isnt that superman in man of steel, he isnt in BvS and he isnt in the Snyder's cut either. ironically, the most superman ever was superman, was in the botched theatrical version of justice league.

[@keithck3720]

Insert eating popcorn gif. Comments are going to fun on this one!

[@thegoldman25]

Enjoy!

[@Halilpasar]

Batman would have gone to the batcomputer and searched for anyone named “martha” who has a connection to clark

[@WL1264]

Why didn't he check if superman had a mother before all of this?

[@thomasibach234]

@@WL1264Batman v Superman Batman is incredibly stupid. It’s how the plot needs to function

[@marcosdheleno]

@@WL1264 he already knew. he even mentions to clark that his parents have told him he was special. he already knew about clark's mother. which is another reason why the scene doesnt work.

[@44excalibur]

I've been saying that Zack Snyder was a no-talent hack ever since I saw Watchmen and Sucker Punch, which was the most physically painful movie I've ever sat through. The moment I heard he was in charge of Man of Steel I knew from the start that the DCEU would be ruined before it even had a chance to begin. The only good film Snyder ever made was 300, and there he was simply tracing over Frank Miller's work the way Robert Rodriguez did with Sin City. Snyder is a unique visualist, but he sucks as a storyteller, and Kevin Smith's criticism of him was spot-on when he said that Snyder "didn't seem like a guy who's read a lot of comics, he seems like a guy who read one comic once - Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns - and only liked the part where Batman fought Superman."

[@jacobtuttle4311]

I think the dawn of the dead remake was his best work and i still think watchmen is ok. Its like each film he releases almost seems worse than his last. He's a lot like M Night in that regard. The sixth sense was really good. Unbreakable was good or at the very least genuinely thought provoking from a narrative standpoint. Signs was ok but really started to show how weird his direction and dialogue was and everything after that besides Split was just trash

[@marcosdheleno]

i do think the guy has talent. i just dont think he is able to make use of that talent as many times as he think he does. 300 is perfect. everything else, far from it.

[@44excalibur]

@@marcosdheleno Again, 300 was only perfect because Zack Snyder was tracing over Frank Miller's work the way that Robert Rodriguez did with Sin City. He also benefitted from 300 being very short and simple. Watchmen was an example of Snyder biting off more than he could chew. Snyder has great visual style, but he's a horrible storyteller.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@44excalibur dont disagree at all with you there.

[@twentywordsorlessYT]

Two things: 1) it's so nice to come across a normal SnyderVerse fan/ defender, and you do make some pretty solid arguments, even if I disagree with them; 2) RE the Martha shit: it would have been better if Clark did, in fact, say "mother", but Bruce mishears it as "Martha" and loses his shit at that. Maybe it wouldn't have worked in the wider context of the film, but in isolation, it still makes more sense than "Martha".

[@dcle944]

Yeah, I run into writers who ask me to critique their writing and then explain to me about every problem I pointed out. I don’t need you to explain anything to me personally. Make it clear in your writing so you don’t have to explain it to anyone personally.

[@zserbs2326]

Snyders films should’ve been marketed as else-worlds stories. He made departures from the traditional character types to tell his stories and I think folks would have accepted or been less annoyed had they understood these films weren’t meant to deliver on the definitive/comics accurate version of these characters.

[@cjayyeck5015]

finally, someone who can explain and articulate their feelings towards the DCEU that isn’t just “snyder bad” great video!

[@thegoldman25]

Thanks for watching

[@garrettprince9343]

You should check out EFAP's dceu coverage

[@thegoldman25]

Nah efap is poopoo

[@TheIqram12]

​@@thegoldman25based

[@politereminder6284]

But Snyder bad, though🤔

[@exe372]

The biggest issue for me in the Synder cut is it makes Darkseid look completely incompetent. He found the anti-life equation, but couldn't remember where. Then to top it off, they can't figure out its the planet he lost when there's lost mother boxes on it, Atlanteans and Amazonians and humans. People specific to Earth, the planet he attacked and they seem to have knowledge of. At least it's not Rebel Moon bad.

[@LestatandBerial]

Not to mention having Darkseids near crippled and bloodied body carried off makes him look so weak. Whereas Stepphanwolf wanting to keep fight and literally having his forces trying desperately to keep him on the ship so they can leave makes him look like a beast who won’t ever stop.

[@alexman378]

I think the reason why Zod wanted Earth specifically, is explained from the get-go. Kryptonians have seemingly a very similar anatomy and biology to humans, but are enhanced due to the atmosphere, once they adapt to it. Jor El chose Earth specifically for Kal, and it also explains why these aliens look like us so much.

[@MattRowland]

Agree. Not every tiny detail needs to be spelled out and spoonfed to us.

[@TheLAGopher]

But that really didn’t explain why Zod wasn’t willing to “share” the Earth with humanity by colonizing uninhabitable regions such as the Arctic and Antarctic. Zod explained that living on Earth with God like powers would mean years of adjustment, by his own example and those of his troops, they could have easily adjusted in days or weeks while hiding behind Advanced Krytonian weapons. Why recreate Krypton’s on Earth and kill off the native life when you can recreate Kryptonian civilization on Earth and breed a master race to rule over humanity

[@Mayan_88694]

@@TheLAGopherbecause he looked down on humanity

[@Mayan_88694]

@@TheLAGopherbecause he looked down on humanity. that’s why he had no desire to co exist with humanity.

[@Ieam0309]

But his goal was to change the atmosphere? Specifically so their childrens won't have to adapt to having powers.

[@DalePWhyte]

Never forget the amazing trolling Marvel did on the lead up to BvS. They set their release date, then Marvel booked Civil War for the exact same day. DC/Warner Bros didn't want to compete with peak MCU so they moved the release date. Once announced, Marvel set Daredevil season 2 to premiere the same day. Top troll energy Marvel, love to see it

[@marcosdheleno]

and civil war was the better of the 2 movies. they actually had a genuine reason to fight, that talking alone wouldnt resolve. on the contrary, they spent most of the movie trying to talk each other out of their decisions. but they were fundamentaly at odds. in BvS superman literaly goes to batman to talk to him, and then, spend the entire fight throwing him around, before getting his teeth kicked in, and saying the meme.

[@RaulGonzalez-zg5ov]

My problem with the snyderverse is the fact that DC already made one of the best connected universes til this day with their animation. Most of their earlier movies and shows were so grounded that you could make a 1:1 copy of some of it and it would be amazing

[@arc4859]

I’m a big defender of Snyder’s trilogy and think they’re really great and misunderstood, but your criticisms were really good and well thought out and honestly I can’t disagree with most of them. I just love the movies in spite of those criticisms

[@thegoldman25]

Nothing wrong with that, thank you for watching!

[@kerry-j4m]

AGREED and well said. And I'll add,I LOVE Man of Steel,thought it was a-GREAT-film.

[@dodgsonwevegotdodgsonhere9970]

"I’m a big defender of Snyder’s trilogy" Ergo, you don't understand the basics of the source material and therefore your opinion is invalid and not worth taking into consideration. Nice of you for getting that out of the way really quick.

[@elishawilson5342]

​@@dodgsonwevegotdodgsonhere9970seriously bruh that wasn't even necessary

[@UnifiedaxxS]

​@dodgsonwevegotdodgson here9970 Why is the source material relevant to a MOVIE

[@alfredborden5675]

5:15 Christopher Reeve' Superman choked his twin to death in Superman 3. He killed Nuclear Man in Superman 4. He took Zod 's powers away, made him human, broke every bone in his hand, then threw him against the walls of the Fortress of Solitude as he sank to his icy grave in Superman 2's theatrical version. Critics didn't complain about Superman killing back then. Reeve Superman gave up being a hero in his second film, took away his own powers, said "HAVEN'T I DONE ENOUGH"?, so he could sleep with Lois. I especially loved when he went to the diner at the end of Superman 2, and beat up a human truck driver when he got his powers back. He broke a pinball machine with that trucker's head.😂 Reeve Superman was brutal😅

[@matthewpunk2012]

The fact that Zack Snyder's detractors ignore comments like this is so rich lmao.

[@whyequalswhat]

@@matthewpunk2012the fact the Snyder dorks think that magically makes his terrible films good is even richer

[@laisensei6984]

Here’s the thing though: Aren’t Superman 2 to 4 received so incredibly badly (at least by IMDB standard) that they literally qualify as negative examples of how to portray Superman? (Like textbook counter examples of something to never mimic or take inspiration from especially when making a Superman movie) And with this in mind, it’s kinda logical for people think Snyder should never try to portray Superman as a somewhat gray figure with hidden darkness no matter how toned down it is compared to the old Reeves movies. That’s probably the reason they complain a lot about Snyder Superman.

[@alfredborden5675]

@@laisensei6984 Superman 2 ?? Where did you get this from? The critics have Superman 2 rated higher than every Snyder movie. In Man Of Steel, Clark saved the men from oil rig fire, the Coast Guard rescue team in the helicopter, a school bus full of his schoolmates from drowning, the entire world by turning himself over to Zod, a fighter pilot from Faora after she leaped at his jet, he catches & saves another fighter pilot from hitting the ground after his jet is destroyed, saved Colonel Hardy from being killed by Faora, destroyed the world engine that would have made earth unlivable for humans (2nd time saving in the word in less than 24 hours), saved Dr. Emil Hamilton, and Colonel Hardy from being blasted out of the sky by Zod with the Kryptonian birthing chamber ship (this gave the doctor & the colonel enough time to open the portal to the phantom zone to send the Kryptonians back into it), Clark destroyed the Kryptonian birthing chamber ship with his heat vision that would have allowed Zod to create a new breed of Kryptonians (some of which no doubt would share his ideology), Clark finalizes & insures humanity's survival by killing Zod who had just vowed to make every human suffer one by one (3rd time saving the planet). Clark saved the entire planet, and the entire human race 3 times in the same movie on his first day on the job. I chose not to even count the undocumented acts of good he did throughout his adolescence while he was living a nomadic life after Johnathan died. So many acts of good that it caught Lois Lane's attention. It's comical when people say Cavill's Superman is not "Superman". They complained about Snyder because they're gatekeepers. They complained about no kryptonite in Man Of Steel cause they couldn't even wait for it in a second movie. They complained about no red underwear. Some of them complained there was no change of costume in a phone booth. Even Christopher Reeve didn't do that in the first film. He looked at one and walked away from it. Some critics were creating stuff out of thin air that never happened in the original film just a trash man of steel. That's what gatekeepers do. They went in there with their knives out before they watched it. We're talking about a movie (man of steel) where he was not a seasoned experience Superman. He's essentially a rookie while for the first time in his life fighting beings with the same powers. We're talking about grown adults crying people died in a Sci-Fi fantasy fictional movie in which the Earth was saved 3 times. If Zack Snyder had Lois horrifically die by being crushed in the Earth in her car with sand filling her mouth.... critics would say he's too edgy and dark. That happened in Superman 1 (1978) with no complaints. If Zack had his Superman fly around the world to reverse time to resurrect Lois... they'd say something about that too. No critic complained about Zod's onscreen death in 1980. No one complained when Superman was beating Darkseid's behind in Metropolis by literally punching him through buildings in the animated series. The hypocrisy is undeniable. I own and love the 78 film and watch it regularly but it is not the Superman Bible. I love Man of Steel also. Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster (who created Superman) had him watching criminals die, break bones, and torture criminals. Everything after that is an interpretation by different writers. If a director made a Superman film based on golden age Superman... would critics write "Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster who created Superman don't understand Superman"?😂🤣

[@laisensei6984]

@@alfredborden5675 But Superman 3 and 4 are actual shitshows, that’s for sure, right? Also, there’s really no need to state every good deed Superman did in Man of Steel. I also watched that movie for 3 times by now. I’m just trying to figure out the source of the hate. I thought it’s because “Snyder took everything he thought was good (but in reality wasn’t) about old Reeve Superman movies and put it in Man of Steel”, but seems like the was not the case.

[@Spongebrain97]

Your Depth Doesn't Equal Quality point really reminds me of the Star Wars prequels Gold Man lol. Like yes we understand what the director's intent was through all of the layers of paragraphs and videos written by passionate fans...but that doesn't mean it's good lol. It's pretty funny to me how much Snyder and Lucas seem to line up with regards to their films and execution

[@thegoldman25]

I want you to know, it took everything in my bones to not cite the prequels as an example. I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees that

[@JoeTufanoTheMovieGuy]

You’re not the only one because I picked up on that too.

[@tarzangrant123]

See that’s what bothers me alot with people who share your opinion. It baffles me how you and others wanna say Snyder’s DCEU isn’t good, despite many who can explain the depthless of his character and storytelling, but somehow you can salivate over the MCU phase 1-3? In my eyes there is no depth, no good storytelling, poor character development, and conflicts that could be solved with the simplest of solutions. Infinity War is one do the most overrated fins I’ve ever seen and to this day I can never get how that is seen as this amazing CBM film when in reality, it took 10 plus films to set it up. Whether you think the MCU is good or not, I’m bringing it up because it’s the direct reason why Snyder’s were received so harshly, why WB wanted to rush their film universe, and why DC is dead now! The MCU fooled many of y’all into thinking that formula was the perfect concoction, but it really just over saturated the market, and now it’s suffering because it’s not bringing it the same success as it did before

[@krazoroth]

I want to add that I think this applies to The Last Jedi as well…

[@mingo7929]

So after a bunch of analasys videos you managed to understand the movie, but you still think its bad? In that case its simply not a story for you. Perhaps the superman and batman stories in children cartoons might fit you. That doesnt make the movie bad, it just means your addicted to one type of story and dont want it changed. Either that or youre so sensitive to nitpicky mistakes that you cant watch the movie because of them

[@omega5159]

I love the part where Zach said “it’s Snyder time” and completely destroyed an entire generations perception of Superman

[@xaviergonzalez44]

Could actually see him saying that

[@ascubis2511]

Underrated comment

[@Cakebattered]

There were 2 perceptions of Superman. 1 from those who read DC comics and the second from those those fondly remember Richard Donner's movies. Snyder's movie was closer to the comic than Donner's.

[@juandeldiablo696]

My problem with MOS was with Superman never been in a fight before fight ZOD and kills him, ZOD probably had years of fighting experience not to mention he wasn’t alone

[@obviouslyPSM]

That's a very delicate take you had about the damage Diana and the Amazons receive. I think you explained it well

[@thegoldman25]

Thanks!

[@09Sayandeep]

I understood and loved BvS right from the first watch on 24th March, 2016. You either like something or you dont, BvS was just my jam. The many layers I have found on rewatches just enhances it imo.

[@WL1264]

Defend the Martha scene

[@09Sayandeep]

@@WL1264 No.

[@jasonaugustine3370]

The main part of the reason that Batman doesn’t kill is because he knows there’s no going back once he crosses that line

[@r3dr4te963]

In one version where he kill Joker, he immediately surrendering himself to authority, reveal himself as Bruce Wayne, and give all Batman's arsenal to Justice League for safe keeping (including other Bat-family). While there is still some flaw in that story, I think that's what Batman will do if he consciously and willingly kill someone, and not yet far gone

[@muhamadluqmaan7361]

The worst part is, if batman is OK with killing, why the hell is the Joker alive?

[@fymale]

​@muhamadluqmaan7361 The question is, why does any villainess could even exist with that much power batman have?

[@k13kk]

Batman kills in absolutely all the movies. Superman kills all the kryptonians in Superman 2. But there is hate only about Batfleck and Cavill snapping Zod's neck. There are arguments about the flaws of these movies, but the audience's hypocrisy is not one of them!

[@capitanpastabase6342]

​​@@k13kk Batman and Superman killing on their first sagas is understandable, bc they pioneered the superheroe movie genre and their directors were clearly uninterested to make it close to the source material. On the other hand, the Nolan trilogy has a terrible Batman. He should've saved Rah's, and the way he killed Thalia and her goons is inexcusable.

[@leviathan_is_me]

The thing about MoS for me is that Zod is all about his "people" and then decides to kill the ONLY one of "his people" left. Not only the last one, but also the one with the potential to maybe bring them back through some means they don't know yet. You would think Zod would do everything he possibly can to protect Kal at this point... but naw, he mad.

[@marcosdheleno]

you cant say that clark wins, when he does EXACTLY what zod told him to. which is pre-determination. he tells him, the only way this fight would end is if one of them is dead. and he was right. clark kills zod. meaning, clark never really had a choice. he did what he was told. his father told him not to save him, so he didnt, his father told him that it was ok to let people die so long he lived. and after becoming superman, clark only ends up saving people 3 times. lois, a random soldier, and that family at the end who for some reason decided to stay still and thought maybe zod wouldnt beam them to death if they played statue. so you cant say clark is fighting for freedom, when he NEVER actually does pick a real choice. the only choice he ever had in the movie was, join zod and let EVERYONE ON EARTH DIE, or fight zod and the kryptonians. it is a choice, but not much of one, in a super hero movie. andthe later movies just throw even more dirt into his character, as he they show that he can easily swap into mass murderer. which ends up proving bruce's paranoia right.

[@powwowken2760]

Wow... I paused over this video while scrolling and legit thought to myself, "The What-verse?" These movies have made that little impact on me despite being a fan of DC characters for my entire life...

[@rogueguardian]

And Zack wanting to BUILD up to a More traditional superman is genuinely a great idea. Heck in the Snyder cut itself that little tease with Clark about to suit up in classic fashion by the end gave me chills but sadly we're never going to get that. I think if he had done a fourth movie we may have have actually gotten there.

[@autobotproductions1244]

Ironically we did see that story come to fruition in the theatrical cut

[@zserbs2326]

“I think if we got a fourth film we may have gotten there.” Should tell you all you need to know about how flawed this direction was. Everyone knows and loves Superman, not the halfway developed version of him you get of him on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time around.

[@ezravldina3467]

​@zserbs2326 it's called character arc

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@ezravldina3467because "It takes a Trilogy to finally let a character being himself" worked so well with Tom Holland spiderman... A Trilogy about Spiderman 1 First 30 minutes

[@Robert-dq1yg]

I’m glad the Snyderverse is over. While the movies were never completely awful, they were always unfaithful to the comics and usually missed the point of the characters. Even though they had the same powers and wore similar outfits, the characters didn’t feel like the ones most comic fans know. This was a major loss for the movies, especially for new viewers who didn’t know the characters beforehand, as many elements that made them great were entirely missing. When these movies were coming out, I constantly heard people say that DC superheroes were worse than their Marvel counterparts, and I mostly blame these movies for not conveying their characters correctly.

[@midesoyibo5420]

Still on the mos section but for the Lois on the ship point, it’s stated that they went through her mind similarly to how they did to Clark. The reason they know about her is because she published the kryptonian article that got her arrested in the first place. Remember they hacked onto every screen at the same time, they’re good with technology. For zod terraforming earth it’s the “would u kill an ant” philosophy they just don’t care enough to seek the universe for another habitable planet. Zod consistently would severe the weak for the sake of krypton which is why he was going to sever the degenerate bloodlines in the prologue Snyder said it’s because Clark had the codex to choose that he beat zod. As Clark begs zod to stop he says “never” highlighting the absurdity of an absence of choice which Clark cannot allow to exist.

[@notyouraveragebear9326]

You’re absolutely right!

[@SuperAz1981]

The biggest problem with the Snyderverse is yes it had potential but if you dont begin reaching that potential by the fourth film in the universe then it is too late. MoS divided the fan base right out of the gate BvS superman lost the general audience as you can tell by the lack of support for the Justice League movie. You uave to keep in mind the General Audience doesnt keep up with behind the scenes drama most of them didnt know Joss Whedon came in to do reshoots and Snyder's name was attached to it. That was basically the general audience turning thier backs on Snyder's universe and DC as a whole. Now all that is left is fractured fan base that was split down the middle you look at audience scores they all went higher after Snyder left but the only ones seeing the films arenthe fan base and the sane is true for ZSJL only snyders fan base watched it but not the general audience. At the end of the day everything died after BvS

[@sterlingpratt5802]

I dislike these movies and think that they aren’t good, but I appreciate your thoughtful analysis.

[@DRFILMS3]

Having the logos on a computer screen upsets me to this day

[@alfredborden5675]

By the way ...this is a well made video which made me subscribe... and this is coming from a hardcore Snyder fan. Great job.

[@thegoldman25]

I appreciate that, thank you for the kind words!

[@eazyecoheed16]

The Ultimate Edition of BVS is so much more tolerable than the theatrical cut. It really seemed to me that Snyder really shone with his themes and whatnot when he didn't have to adhere to a shorter runtime. The Synder Cut was incredible! After it was released I too was bummed we didn't get to see where it went.

[@thefilmrookie3099]

That’s Snyder’s problem. He’s so self indulgent and overcomplicates everything so you have stories that are way longer than they need to be. BvS didn’t need to be 3 hours. The Snyder cut didn’t need to be 4 hours and ultimately the movies suffer from it. The Ultimate Edition is tolerable yes, but it’s still very sloppy.

[@Courier_333]

The Snyder cut is okay. As much as I HATE BVS at least he was swinging for the fences. The last 3 zack Snyder movies have felt generic. Very out of line with his prior work

[@cash5512]

It still sucks.

[@sladejoseph6757]

​@@thefilmrookie3099I don't think his self indulgence I think he just wanted to do it differently, his a storyteller and what does a storyteller ask himself is what this character does a different path what not. I mean this Zack Snyder has many people work with him for years and they always say positive about him and even the actors like him and they express how he always shares his stuff with them. But I get what you're saying but at the same time you can't for him making bvs or Justice league that wasn't his first plan in the beginning

[@whyequalswhat]

The ultimate edition is like spraying febreeze in a dumpster. It’s more tolerable but its still garbage

[@boshwa20]

Making Flash using his time travel powers IN HIS FIRST OFFICIAL LIVE ACTION ROLE is the worst mistake they made. For gods sake, FLASHPOINT ISNT THE FLASH'S ONLY FUCKING STORY!!!

[@sdnmkhn]

That’s like one of the most acclaimed parts of ZSJL though

[@boshwa20]

@@sdnmkhn And it was a mistake. Its just like the hyperspace ram in the Last Jedi. Looks pretty, but falls apart the second you think any deeper about it

[@sdnmkhn]

@@boshwa20 I think movies should be looked at by themselves, not by the logic of 'does this align with my wants from the comics?'

[@Rodoet001]

@@sdnmkhn Okay, not that boshwa20 was doing that, but let's humour your argument. It's still a terrible choice. It's a lazy deus ex machina. It just pushing the stakes so high the only way to fix it is to magically just undo it by time travel. No overcomming the stakes, no united effort to win the day, just "run Barry, run" and then he ran and then they didn't die. It was never needed in the first place, Zack could have easily given the Flash his big moment in any other way than just tImE tRaVeL, and the movie would be better for it. I mean, we have countless of examples why it's such a poor story solution it's remarkable how Zack could ever have thought it was a good idea.

[@AustinAvatar]

@@sdnmkhnit’s more acclaimed because of its visuals and not for its relevance in the plot, you can literally take them losing out and it changes nothing. It doesn’t add anything to the overall movie except for a 5 minute cool scene.

[@Courier_333]

I'm so glad an actual comic book reader is making a superman film. Can't wait for James Gunn's SUPERMAN

[@kimberleysnagg4215]

Good arguments, but no. Snyder had to go. I'm excited for a fresh start.

[@fatcat8033]

He still should have saved his dad from the tornado…just saying🤔🥴

[@germanscience7246]

You mention that man of steel is about how clark becomes the hero we all know and love. However, the becomes that hero because of his parents, specially jonathan kent. They are the ones who instill the good values in him and the desire to do good.

[@jasonaugustine3370]

The ultimate edition versus the theatrical one is basically night and day

[@GeraldDrake-p4r]

It's about damn time!

[@theomnitorium7476]

I saw BvS twice, once in the extended version, and I had no idea these were Lex Luthors motivations. Had the movie conveyed them in any comprehensible form, it might have been interesting.

[@TheChadTIChannel2]

1:30 If you slow this scene down, you will see they edited Christopher Reeves' face in some frames. Always felt that was...unseemly.

[@lanceareadbhar]

Q: Why was Lois on the ship? A: Because that's what was written in the script.

[@davemac9563]

Zack Snyder just sounds like the fan fiction writer. The kind where they just wanna make the characterization cynical for the sake of being cynical. Even if his writing is terrible.

[@Tippotipo]

Clearly a sign that someone failed to pay attention.

[@THAMAINMAN2025]

Thank you. Rubble Moon proves this too.

[@Eclypse_77]

1. Because he believes superman has too much power (he referenced his father growing up in a dictatorship) AND because superman is an alien and he doesnt trust him ("we don't have to use the silver bullet, but if we forge one then we won't have to depend on the "kindness" of monsters") 2. To ruin the public image of superman (soon after the bombing we hear the media question if superman was responsible for the deaths or that he didn't do enough to save them.) Later Lex tells superman that "the world will see the holes in the holy". He wanted to destroy the image of the all powerful superman. 3. As a contingency plan. He learns about and creates Doomsday AFTER batman steals the kryptonite. So he gives batman a chance to kill superman while Doomsday is on a timer, and when he finds out batman didn't kill him THEN he releases Doomsday 4. I basically answered this in 3 For me, I was able to understand this movie more on rewatch. Granted, not everything is blatantly spelled out for you, especially if it's your first time watching. It takes multiple viewings. But imo, a great movie is one where you can get something new from it each time you watch it. It also helps if you watch the Ultimate Edition.

[@capitanpastabase6342]

I really dig this video. Most videos about the topic are "this is not how this chatacters behave in the Comics", to which its defenders respond by saying this is a different take on the heroes and that the movies are good regardless. Instead, you talk about the shortcomings of Snyder's writing and storytelling, how that so-called depth and symbolism isn't well executed, which is rrally interesting.

[@faster_xx]

Aside from MoS that's 💯 Snyder's work, the others weren't. BvS was supposed to MoS 2 not that mess we got.

[@dobi287]

Yes Clark heard about a mysterious object in the ice and yes it ended up being convenient to his quest HOWEVER it's not like he was in Smallville and this info came to him, no he was actively nomadic looking for answers. And so of the info we get is literally just by happenstance. Also he did not have to investigate what he overheard he chose to. So his choice/quest put him in the position to get the info in the first place. And then he chose to investigate the info

[@Snzn_7]

Yeah, you can't convey that "Clark is soul searching and a bit lost in where he trying to find" when you have him "actively already trailing a known route". Also funny how the video compares "how Louis spend months to investigate". While the early parts of the movie is literally Clark drifting to places after places trying to find the "unknown" of what he wants to do actually do. The difference with Louise is that she has something tangible she is looking for. Clark starts up with being him being lost in what he wants to do so...

[@dobi287]

@@Snzn_7 I think there may be a language barrier but Clark was not on a known route the government didn't even know what the object was Also Lois took months to investigate what?

[@Snzn_7]

@@dobi287 Not sure if it was actual "months", I just used how the video worded it, since I am paraphrasing, where the video argued how "Louise took months or weeks to investigate/locate where Superman lives, while Clark just happen to, by chance, overheard military people talking about some unknown object". And yeah I was basically saying what you said "Clark was not on a Known route", that is why I used "Soul searching", and Lost in life as terms to describe the State Clark was in.. Since the video points it out how "Clark not actively searching for something" as flaw . When the point was "Clark really don't know what to do yet at that point of the story". I used the "Known route" since the video is making it out that Clark in the beginning of the movie "knows what he is looking for that he is out there "investigating" something. Where in actuality Clark is just "Drifting from place to place without a clear path in mind." So it is not really logical to compare How Clark ended up finding out about the spaceship to Louise finding where Superman lives. Because Obviously Clark don't have a specific goal to follow while Louise has a clear idea of what she is searching for them expect Clark's case to show be similar to Louise's Just to make it clear "I am agreeing to your point btw".

[@dobi287]

@@Snzn_7 no I got it this time, very well said. Thank you for clarifying

[@Spiyder11]

I just realized that Tenet personally gave me the DDEQ feeling. I’m so confused but it’s a cool movie!

[@jeffsnickerdoodle6659]

Zack Snyder had Great concepts and ideas that work but they work any literally any other super hero story except DC😂 Batman having a journey of paranoia is in character and his already on the edge mentality is perfect but then killing people ruins the entire journey and u didn’t really buy that he wanted to be better after Superman’s death. Then the biggest problem Superman he treated him as an alien god when he is human he is the ultimate outcast which makes him relatable he is just a guy who wants to help and that’s the charm. Like it’s so upsetting seeing his universe fail but he thought of the characters as gods among men and treated them as such

[@nickbrandt5195]

Great breakdown of all the movies. Agree with a lot of the points. I will never understand the praise of zach snyder. I simply dont think hes a good movie maker. And the reason the synder version is better is bc its 4 hours long and had the advantage of hearing all the backlash and correcting. obviously its better if you can go back after the fact and fix it, and simply just make the movie longer to add more scenes and depth

[@marcosdheleno]

im gonna be honest, i just finished the part of the man of steel, and i couldnt disagree more with him, he keeps talking about how clark stands for freedom of choice and all that, but he NEVER is given a real choice to make, the only choice he makes is between siding with zod, or with the humans. outside of that. everything else he does as he is told, and when he did something he THOUGHT was right, his "earth dad" was there to question him and tell him he was wrong for doing that. even at the end, clark does what zod said he would do. a real choice would be for him to subdue zod somehow, instead, as they set out to fight for the last time, zod tells him "the only way this fight ends is with one of us dead". and that's EXACTLY how the fight ends. also, going back to the "maybe scene", this was NOT the first time in a superman series that his father says literaly that after he saves someone for the first time. both of the 90's series,(the animated one, and the romcom lois & clark) do that EXACT SAME scene. BUT, the diference is, 1) clark is an adult, 2) HIS MOTHER question the father if he is sane. 3) clark and his father talk, where his father tells him he is proud of him for doing it, but is afraid clark is putting himself in danger. but, that he is an adult, who is capable of making his own decisions. so that scene works for those series, and Lois & Clark SUUUUUUUCKS its ATROCIOUS. and even that piece of shit got it right.

[@rezarostamian3197]

Batman didn't brand people because he knew they would die in prison. There is a scene in the prison that shows one of lex Luther's guys talks to a prisoner and asks him to kill the branded guy, probably for money or something. you're wrong about this one. Batman didn't kill people for no reasons. Also in JL, Batman didn't devote his life to honor Superman just because their mother had the same name. It was because of Superman's sacrifice to save the world and he saw the humanity in him. In the opening scene, batman was literally in tears watching Superman dying

[@elishawilson5342]

Lex basically antagonizes both of them against each other and uses the situations they're in to make them fight and they didn't realize it till it was kinda too late and quite literally blew up in their faces

[@henryflores3602]

It was just done so poorly, hence the ridicule

[@pinkheartgel3830]

"Kill for no reason" Yeah that's still killing, and Batman says that's a no no. It's what makes him a compelling character.

[@munny_1206]

All of this was evident on my first watch but I’ve been reading comics just about all my life so I probably made assumptions based on some of the things I’ve read. 1. Lex believes that being saved by Superman time and time again is a vice that humanity has that will ultimately backfire if & when Superman has a bad day or turns evil. Lex looks at Superman like humanities sickness not it’s savior. 2. He did it to break Supe’s mentally, which it did briefly. Superman believed his existence inevitably was the cause of the bombing, which led him to seek solace and question the beliefs his father instilled in him 3. After the theft of his kryptonite it was evident to Lex that the Bat being who he was fashioning some sort of weapon to harm Kal with it but Doomsday was the coup de grâce 4. Lex is a puppet master who would not soil his hands

[@Nixus237]

I think you just read a lot of cope from people who are obsessed with Snyder

[@Trojan24]

Honestly. That last dialogue he made us suffer through made that obvious.

[@Korra228]

Good movies don't require you to read walls of text on reddit to understand the basic motivation of the antagonist

[@thegoldman25]

Korra is the goat btw

[@Korra228]

@@thegoldman25 based

[@comicman5829]

I do understand what you are saying about Clark regretting killing Zod. And it probably would have been nice for him to reflect on what he did. But I feel Superman should Always protect human life even if it means taking another.

[@donatellohamato748]

I get where you're coming from but Clark, this Clark allowed the destruction of the city go on. He didn't made an attempt to lure Zord away from he kept fighting and didn't care about any collateral damage. Then he is sentimental about taking a life then he doesn't care. Life went on, and people acted like nothing happened? I have seen other critic even saying that Clark caused like seven 11/9 and didn't reacted to it. (I'm not American, and the critic who did the comparations is. ) My point is, this Superman is confusing and doesn't have his priorities straight.

[@Jman92854]

I'm so glad Zack Snyder gave us a DC movie with a jar of piss. That was crucial to the plot.

[@dignerds]

Im very sure it was for the better ❤️ A win against a studio that has been butching DC movies for 40 years. All Snyders DC films are great.

[@mju7673]

Love how you though of the details and it makes sense. Are you a writer?

[@Zed-fq3lj]

Subscribed to your channel! This was brilliant man, I won't go into details but I enjoyed your view of the Snyderverse (which I moderately like), your pros and cons...🙌 Your perspective is well placed and the argument of listening to others and different opinions!

[@My20GUNS]

14:00 the problem with invoking this trope is that, in this specific case, it doesn't work. In Man of Steel Clark is never shown to avoid collateral damage or have an aversion to killing, until AFTER he kills Zod. Also he never learned to value human life and/or not kill. In BvS he kills that terrorist guy at the start of the movie. Less than 10 minutes in and he's already murdering people.

[@cedarandsound]

Zak Snyder has an obsession with Ayn Rand, and that cannot be dismissed when considering his filmmaking.

[@josedias5978]

The reason why I loved MOS 2013 is because it reminds me of the love of a family Family would do anything to save and protect their sons and daughters to show them What's life like

[@44excalibur]

The problem with your assessment of Snyder's Man of Steel is that the TV series Smallville managed to do the exact same thing without butchering the entire character of Clark Kent in the process. The only thing that was literally holding back the story was Lana Lang, but that was about it.

[@Coffeeguy18]

Definitely feel very mixed about the Synder-verse just cause it did have potential but it was never realized. As much as I didn’t like Batman v. Superman if you turn your brain off it’s fun. I do also think the Batman fight when he goes to save Martha might be one of the most badass/best Batman fight I’ve seen (besides the killing).

[@bclr6843]

I love this channel. I wish you’d make more stuff with like game of thrones and house of the dragon. Something like that. I think I can speak for most people when I say we’re all done with marvel, Star Wars and anything to do with ring of power. Look forward to the future

[@marcelinovazquez5128]

Originally I always defended a majority of DC fims even if I never saw them but that was more me being DC fan and not necessarily a Zack Snyder fan. However as time went on and watching the movies for myself I can see what people's problems have with these movies and I do not like them as much as I thought I did. Especially after watching several of Zack Snyder's movies I feel like Zack Snyder is not a good filmmaker. There are only 2 movies I like that I think are great at character development and genuinely good films. He has cool ideas and good messages but prioritizes cool visuals and moments and not so much on character development. I think Zack Snyder is a George Lucas where he has great ideas but he needs someone to tell him no and have people to tell him what works and what doesn't work. I don't want this to come across as anti-Snyder post I just hope this comes across as if Snyder wants to be better he needs to make changes and sacrifices on how he works.

[@Spongebrain97]

Literally took the words out of my mouth dude. I defended the films when they first came out because I was hyped up but by the time Justice League came out I became more jaded and started noticing the flaws. And as time went on and I became more knowledgeable about film making and broadened my horizon, I really came to not like Snyder's films. He specifically is not good at writing, he doesn't understand that deleted scenes exist for a reason hence the many director's cuts, and overall I dont like his philosophy when it comes to characterization. His recent comments about Batman confirmed that he doesn't understand these characters and wanted to "improve" them. And with Lucas yeah I realized that he is good at world building and coming up with character concepts and stories but the problem is he heavily struggles with screenwriting and directing his actors which is why there are weird sounding line reads and wooden performances in the prequels

[@DannyKetch-lp8co]

You literally called Clark a “good human being” WRONG! He’s a kryptonian duh

[@billyboleson2830]

Funny

[@themultiverseisbroken4365]

I never followed the DCEU super closely, but I have a lot of BvS nostalgia and still want to check out Snyder's Justice League at some point.

[@yurikendal4868]

5. Why would lex luther create a world ending monster and want to have darkseid on earth.

[@martinwinter615]

The message to chose their own path - which Snyder contradicts himself by quoting all-star Superman and use the Jesus allegory cause it looks and sounds cool. That is Snyder - if it seems cool for him - no matter if it makes any sense - let's put it in. Snyder is a hack that without help is to dumb and too untalented to do a good movie. The only thing he can do well is shot compositions - and as we see in Rebel Moon it seems that the good shot compositions he mostly copies from other material too. & the arc that Clark is on does not work when he himself at the end said: I will help but it has to be on my terms - this is objectivism - that is not Superman.

[@alexndrtrash]

I have a take on why clark didnt just tell people about MoS and hos fight with bats. Superman is always portrayed as the most human of us despite where he comes from. Its entirely natural to want to prove oneself and i can honestly buy that the clark thinks 2 years of saving people would help sway the public opinion on him. Not that hed do it for that reason of course but that people would see him better because of it. Also most of his fight with batman is actually him trying to defuse the situation. He does just want to tell bruce whats going on. Batman is just too hateful and bitter to listen unfortunately. Not saying its 10/10 masterpiece work but thats what i can gather from thinking about how clark thinks as a person.

[@PerfectTroy1]

Great video! MOS lacked Superman interacting with nearly everyone. BVS was a weird bastardization of Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns. All writers and directors need to respect the Source material.

[@elishawilson5342]

The ship taught him how when he asked it to teach him it also warned him that this was forbidden as it happened on Krypton Ship: Advising action forbidden it has been decreed by the council of Krypton that none shall give life to a deformity so hateful to sight and memory the desicration without name. Lex: and where is the council of Krypton? Ship: Destroyed sir. Lex: Then proceed.

[@austindowling4664]

Never been a vocal detractor of the Snyder verse. I’ve always felt like I understood his decisions. Even if they weren’t ones I would personally make. But ultimately that’s my real issue. I’ve never liked that his vision was what would go on to be the general audience’s perception of the DCU and its heroes. The SV seems much more like a 12 issue mini series than what should be the mainline continuity. In fact I think Zack works much better in a place where he is able to tell his story how he wants beginning middle and end. Nothings off limits. Which is why it makes me really happy that The DCU is embracing Elseworlds. Allowing for creators to play in the DC sandbox in fun and interesting ways. Without getting bogged down or effecting the mainline continuity.

[@LestatandBerial]

My issue with Clark working at the daily planet? Unless I had a seizure during both my MoS watchthrouth and whenever anyone talks about it, there isn’t a single mention of journalism from Clark, so him suddenly being a journalist at a major paper is so confusing. Here’s my questions about Lex: did he want Batman to steal the kryptonite? Because he went to a lot of effort to get it and keep it out of Batman’s hands, but he also looked shocked and horrified at what Batman did to get it at Lexcorp. And if he didn’t want Batman to have it how did he expect Batman to win? Also what would Lex have done if Superman actually died by Batman’s hand. Could he just pull the plug on doomsday? And you know my big issue with the capital bombing scene? Superman. When it happens, he looks mildly disappointed, like he found out his favorite sandwich shop is out of his preferred condiment.

[@morganendicott1239]

Did you watch the ultimate edition of BVS for this video?

[@thegoldman25]

I did

[@morganendicott1239]

Ok how do you feel about the ultimate edition compared to the theatrical cut@@thegoldman25

[@thegoldman25]

I've only ever seen the ultimate edition, idk what was cut out in the theatrical

[@pedromagalhaes8911]

my goat gold man is almost at 100k subs! been here since 9.7k !

[@thegoldman25]

So close!

[@joehendotv927]

The whole Clark being forced to reveal himself or else billions die is literally taken from Superman: Earth One Volume One. I also honestly feel like you're overthinking the themes and plot a little too much. Zod had already been to other planets, he's been traveling space for 33 years, besides the codex and the scout ship's genesis chamber were also already there. Zod wanted Lois on his ship because he monitored those news reports linking her to Superman and he wanted to find out everything she learned about him. I understand where you're coming from with the ending but for me, Superman letting out his scream was both him reacting to the destruction and killing Zod so that was enough. Besides, he can't constantly dwell on the fact that he killed someone. He also can't constantly dwell on the destruction of Metropolis, it wasn't even his fault.

[@jedjensen7974]

I'm not sure I totally agree with your final conclusions; as somebody who loved MoS & ZSJL but hated BvS & Josstice League, I'm somewhat mixed on the Snyderverse as a whole. While I wasn't completely on board with Snyder's vision it was indisputably his and I'm totally against a studio railroading Snyder the way they did on Justice League. Yes, they're the one footing the bill and thus should have some say, but not to the point where they completely take control away from the director at the first opportunity. That being said...WB was totally right to pull the plug on the DCEU. With the exception of the first Wonder Woman movie & Aquaman, none of the movies were both critically & financially successful. MoS & BvS were divisive, Suicide Squad & JL were train wrecks, and no movie after Aquaman (even the great ones like Shazam & The Suicide Squad) were able to gross more than $400 million. Even ZSJL wasn't super successful from a viewership standpoint, seeing as it had less views on HBO Max than WW84 (at least, according to the publicly released Samba TV ratings). General audiences gave up on the DCEU long before it was announced they were rebooting, and trying to build on that faulty foundation would be a foolish endeavor. The only plan that made any sense was to reboot & hand the reins over to some one new.

[@theorangecarousel481]

I struggle with where to put Aquaman in my snyderverse watchorder. I like justice league as the finale but it doesn’t really fit before.

[@t.c.g.thecentregod2809]

I am a huge Snyder fan, the snyderverse is one of my many inspirations for my own projects and stories I’m working on, I love the movies and love the positive critiques but yours has to be the most unbiased critiques of the snyderverse, I loved hearing your opinions, and hearing you really helped me wanna become a better writer so I thank you for uploading this and sharing your thoughts

[@6tiple6ix6afia]

The real issue is you admitted you are a this huge fan, and therefore criticism must be either biased or unbiased. You just apparently "know" that this video is unbiased do you? You just "know" when it is biased huh? See it is easy to actually, factually know YOU are biased because you literally admitted so. You are absolutely allowed to love something that had objectivity bad qualities. Many of these films have objectively bad writing and there is zero argument against it. Tase is subjective m, quality is not. You are allowed to like a used car, but you do not get to dictate whether or not its quality is used or new.

[@t.c.g.thecentregod2809]

@@6tiple6ix6afia you ok?

[@3thosmusic22]

I loved Man of Steel the people complaining about too much destruction and him killing General Zod don’t understand that it’s an origin story and that he’s learning how to become the hero we all know and love it requires a lot of mistakes to get to that point

[@IronLad-wn1ih]

Na people didn't hate it for that reason,its just due to poor execution. People loves to see destruction in cbm. The avenger's in 2012 one do more distruction then superman in Mos. People let it slide as they are executed brilliantly. You need better writing to execute such scenes.

[@IronLad-wn1ih]

And buddy people aren't dumb,they know that Mos was a origin story. The main problem with Snyder's fan is that they think people are dumb to understand Snyder movies. They live in there own world where they think Snyder movies are hated bcuz audience don't have brain to understand it. Even 10 years old can understand Snyder's dceu movies. They aren't deep.

[@tmac731]

I don’t understand how people forget that this was Superman‘s week on the job. He just learned to fly two days ago.

[@IronLad-wn1ih]

@@tmac731 why are you blaming the audience??? People know that. It was just due to poor execution. We know he was a rookie but Snyder over use some stuff just to make it look cool. Snyder dceu movies didn't knew what they want to be. Mos,BvS first and second act are grounded but in third act they take a huge swing. Snyder has huge problem of using heavy CGI in final act. Young audience needs to know that Mos was received well by audience. People only complained about the over use of CGI in final battle. BvS is his worst work under dceu and is certainly top 10 worst comic book movies ever made.(Movie that took style over substance)

[@tmac731]

@@IronLad-wn1ih you’re not making any sense. There are many people who don’t like the final battle of Man of Steel because they said the action went too long but why wasn’t the finals battle of Transformers 3 or Avengers too long? I’m not blaming the audience, I’ve seen plenty of dumb arguments to say man of steel is a bad movie when it’s not. Zach Synder DC trilogy is amazing and BvS is the most misunderstood comic book movie of all time. We are entitled to our own opinion but BvS was just ahead of its time and most people don’t understand what Zach was doing with the characters

[@hubertrnx116]

New Subscriber here. Great video!🎉

[@thegoldman25]

Thank you!

[@moracomole8090]

we never got the Snyderverse we got the Corporate Mingling verse

[@stevejohnsonolson2137]

In the Directors cut, Lois actually figures out about the lead and tells him and then he figures out why he couldn’t leave the guy in the wheelchair

[@lanceareadbhar]

I'll be interested in a Rebel Moon video in this format. Hopefully in the One Year Later category.

[@THAMAINMAN2025]

Leave a glass of milk on the counter for a year, you’ll get the same effect.😂

[@paulsbourne]

With the Bat-branding and people getting “taken out” in prison, it’s stated that Lex was having them unalived on purpose to make Superman go after Batman. So Batman wasn’t doing that on purpose with the intention of them being shanked in prison.

[@BSmitty4rm8Fitty]

Snyder messed up with Man of Steel. We needed a Superman fans could fall in love with, not one that's conflicted when we meet him. I feel the way this movie was made was more about what Snyder wanted to do vs creating a Superman that would appeal to the fans that made Superman the most famous superhero ever. That being said, Man of Steel is my favorite superhero movie ever because it was perfect in color, tone and message. We were truly robbed of what could've been but Snyder did have some hand in it.

[@dantheman_cunningham]

Of the Snyder films, I personally really like MoS, tolerate BvS, but love the Snyder Cut. They are not perfect films by any means, but the universe that we could've gotten and the way Snyder was treated by WB was so upsetting. Still, he managed to make a trilogy with something of a complete arc for Superman as he becomes the embodiment of hope that everyone loves him for, that's something not a lot if people get an opportunity to do. Still, I'm still upset that we got teased with Cavill's return in Black Adam for it to go nowhere. I would've loved an entire movie where he got to be that Superman, but that's just not how things were meant to be. I'm at least hopeful that James Gunn can at least deliver a great universe now, and that lessons were hopefully learned with how this universe was mismanaged.

[@thefilmrookie3099]

I don’t think Superman was ever planned to be that embodiment of hope we know and love. Especially after what Snyder said about Superman.

[@kadegetslaid634]

​@thefilmrookie3099 exactly, and his plans for the justice leauge trilogy leaked and it was horrible

[@thefilmrookie3099]

@@kadegetslaid634 yeah, why the hell would a pregnant Lois cheat on Superman with Batman?

[@kadegetslaid634]

@@thefilmrookie3099 exactly 😭

[@vadalia3860]

Honestly Jor-el's whole thematic point died in the intro because you can't have a natural birth symbolize anything... for the father. They could and really should have swapped out Clark's mother for his father because HER having chosen to be the first Kryptonian to give birth naturally in forever would have had actually weight vs the first guy in a while to... ya know... stand idly by while his wife does all the work.

[@alfredborden5675]

30:15 Adam West, BatKeaton, & Batbale killed on screen. Keaton makes Batfleck look like Sesame Street.