The Most Broken Move in Melee

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With just a few seconds left on the clock, Super Smash Con 2023 came down to a gamble from ‪@hungrybox‬ to bet on a bracket reset. But, remarkably, this all-or-nothing rest missed. By a single frame.
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#SSC2023 #Hungrybox #Zain #turndownforwalt #tdfw #SuperSmashBrosMelee #SuperSmashMelee #SSBM

[@hungrybox]

walt it was a good video but did you have to show me missing the rest 112 times

[@NotViridium]

yes

[@KANYEREST135]

he had to dood 😢

[@jorgebarreraahumada8482]

Yes

[@turndownforwalt]

Sorry I had to make sure it was seen

[@cestandmuni3849]

LOL love you hbox

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

thank god bowser's down smash is getting its own video. that guy has had it too good for too long.

[@stellaanderson570]

Hello PowerPoint man :D

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

oh also this is a banger. extremely common TDFW W

[@SorenRoberts]

PowerPoint man

[@NETIERRAS]

ppp man is a good man

[@plabcentral630]

Lol just came from your vid and I said some sus shit my b

[@Eichro]

i like how he's not even pretending the sponsored game is good, the selling point is "i get paid so pls help a bro out"

[@IGP]

THE EDITING

[@Cxlvin.]

woah, i didnt know you watched melee.

[@Valentinesdayghost]

IGP?! literally everyone who sees this comment

[@cdntl]

looks like meleestats editing

[@SorenRoberts]

For real

[@jongyon7192p]

what's the weird distorting shockwave looking thing? People keep using it

[@Sappysappster]

10:39 semi related but I really like Hungrybox's fistbump here like his face doesn't say "UGH I lost." or "GODDAMNIT FUCK" it says "Welp lmao ggwp" if you get what I mean

[@carterfrey3134]

It’s the “I love this game but this game f’n blows”

[@Sappysappster]

@@carterfrey3134 exactly bruh I love it cuz I've had that same feeling

[@jongyon7192p]

i once met hbox at a grocery store. He gave me a fistbump and a thank you for being a fan of melee. At the front, he forgot to pay, and when they called him out, he wasn't like "UGH I lost" or "GODDAMMIT FUCK". He just apologized and accepted his mistake

[@Pal42_]

@@jongyon7192p the good ending

[@ryanhoang1123]

@@jongyon7192p is this a twist on the old i know a hbox story from pre crab era?

[@ragxhausted]

You're telling me that we were THIS close to the single most powerful, cataclysmic pop-off the world had ever seen?? Also, another fantastic video Walt!

[@JBLZFTW]

Eh would have just been a bracket reset, only a mild hbox popoff

[@tomasjaramillogaviria1821]

I'm telling my kids this was the cuban missile crisis

[@danielbalderramos3890]

Underrated comment

[@krusher181]

No I think he would have reset the bracket He had to win 2 sets, Walt left that out….

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

7:36 blows my mind - I thought I kinda understood about like DI mixups and guaranteed follow ups… I didn’t! I totally didnt comprehend what people meant when they say 50/50 or RPS for this that it’s literally “here are the options I can do as marth against this character at this percent -> here are the di options puff has for specific counterplay -> evidence based (option tree) reaction tech chase”

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

I’d never seen the analog stick-DI calculator like that graphic before

[@Gabriel-sd1oh]

if I lost a game 5 last stock timeout situation to being a single frame early with my move I would physically Die

[@kylespevak6781]

He was losing far before that

[@acycle2124]

@@kylespevak6781not really, but he would have won if the frame didnt skip, so he lost because of that

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

9:15 is cool seeing hboxs inputs. It’s kinda cool that he’s basically dash dancing in the air? With puffs drift he swings in and out like any grounded DD

[@chillyxerochill4815]

I coughed out cookie crumbs each time hbox popped off and now the driver’s seat is completely covered. Lovely video!

[@noobiesensei6281]

Please tell me you were parked.

[@OkieDokieSmokie]

@@noobiesensei6281probably has youtube premium. you can queue up videos and play them with your screen off, basically just podcasts with extra steps.

[@jaytea6516]

I can't stop laughing at HB screaming samples

[@lamMeTV]

Every great game needs some randomness. Melee's jank is a feature

[@mr.bubbles4439]

Chess

[@SassInYourClass]

obligatory “if you’re not frame perfect, 99 times out of 100, you’re not good enough”

[@codyross7628]

Oh no, the mobile games got to walt

[@Orciwan548]

I’ve never played or really watched melee but it’s crazy how this game works. How precise the players are too like I can’t tell what’s going on for a lot of it just someone gets hit but there’s so much more videos like this are great.

[@ByrneBaby]

Oh my god, what a banger of a video. Ty for going so hard on your content, Walt, it never goes unnoticed 🔥🔥🔥

[@equinox3861]

You forgot Z drop is frame 1.

[@SorenRoberts]

God I love high quality analysis of popular competitive video games

[@rannynihilius8481]

Most painful ending to a set last year.

[@bulb9970]

TLDW: He was slightly not touching the hitbox

[@raddrew42]

the multiple cutaways to the pop off into irl rest made me chuckle

[@DoctorSwellman]

This is some really good editing walt. Reminds me of Melee Moments' style, which is a really really good thing. Loved the video

[@cabininthewoods1]

Loved hearing the Lethal League Blaze soundtrack in a few spots here, this video was so good 😌

[@BijouBellaRixp1]

Blue waffles Also wow I didn't know all that I appreciate the box's up tilt a lot more

[@knowthestatuskuo1]

Uptilt breakdown is the exact type of melee content that gets me hyped up

[@blankedout1862]

0:57 love the soundsmith reference

[@morri2087]

thank you so much for making such high quality melee content. genuinely i enjoy each and every one of your videos

[@TylerClibbon]

amazing, please more of this

[@tiaraguy7705]

You know, Hbox kinda has Mango vibes at this point. Fan base and content might be a little different but you can never count him out fully. He might just go on a run and make you remember that this guy is called clutchbox for a reason, he might buster out sometimes but when he's on a run it's pretty insane to watch because he goes for some insane gambles.

[@khu7379]

the mango glazing is crazy with this community lol

[@tiaraguy7705]

@@khu7379 it's genuinely not that deep, I like both players but I barely even watch much melee now. But both have done a lot for the scene.

[@ivymuncher]

@@khu7379 i mean if youre a top player in the scene for like that long you deserve it at this point lmaoaoaoao

[@SRM13]

@@khu7379why are you so obsessed with a game you don’t like Lmfao

[@psymar]

Plus he just discovered his custom Phob controller wasn't actually broken after all so look out

[@prolazoi774]

you're killing it with the videos walter

[@eisenhead]

what did you use to make the shaders in some of the melee fottage look so good? is it some mod or post processing effect? loved the vid btw

[@MrMinewarp]

Damn 1 frame is insane!

[@sleepynuigurumiamalgamation]

odd video title but good vid

[@KeyboardKlutz_0]

So uh... was that opening a reference to SoundSmith or...?

[@Moss_Dude]

How?

[@DoofXMachina]

Nah. Soundsmith references this guy

[@ramaicatseye]

6:07 why is the video corrupted here?

[@iagimru]

I may be wrong, but I believe it is due to a process called Interpolation. Basically, interpolation is when an ai is used to generate more frames on a video. Smash bros runs at 60 frames per second, so if the regular footage was slowed down, it would look choppy like a slideshow. However, with interpolation an ai was able to generate more frames for when the video is slowed. Unfortunately, interpolation's biggest problem is that the new images it generates are extremely fucked up looking, because it is done with ai. This is why if you pause the video during interpolated segments, things are clipping or blurry or just look bad. An ai attempted to create new frames, but it obviously does not understand how to make them look perfect. turndownforwalt has two options for slowed down segments due to smash melee running at 60 fps. Either it looks like a powerpoint slideshow, or it looks corrupted but smoother fps via interpolation. Neither option is perfect, but most audience members would prefer a smoother video, even if it looks corrupted. Thus, interpolation was chosen

[@ramaicatseye]

@@iagimru Hey, thank you. Long explanations are appreciated by me.

[@iagimru]

np @@ramaicatseye

[@gamehero4211]

At 7:53 you said you pulled up Zains inputs? How do you gain access to this? I feel it would be very beneficial for someone wanting to learn more to know how to get these input recordings

[@LealFireball]

Tournament setups for these big events are often connected to a pc running slippi which can collect the input data and make a match replay out of it, which you can search in their database and see the replay and inputs on your pc via slippi. Though to be honest I'm not sure if these replays in in-person tournaments go directly into the slippi database or if they have to be released.

[@simanolastname2399]

@@LealFireball Local games have to be released AFAIK. Ranked games are in a database though since Fizzi has released files before for the Lunar Melee channel.

[@kk-hy3sf]

You’re better then these super clickbait titles

[@TheOmniBlade]

Now this is the content I love getting clickbaited on

[@bkebradley]

Was that a program used to show when moves KO or was that a custom graphic?

[@9onRichter]

Shoutout to the lethal league blaze music playing in the background

[@johnwesolowski1134]

such a great breakdown of what happened

[@smokedem]

Great content and style as always… but I really hope the optical flow interpolation was just an experiment and not the planned interpolation method going forwards ☺️

[@samsr2887]

glad im not the only one who really did not like that

[@nodisco8042]

The what?

[@JuniperLx]

⁠@@nodisco8042I think he’s talking about a certain type of frame interpolation. Iirc, frame interpolation is when a computer finds the image that is the “best fit” between two frames of a video. This can be done to make a video feel more smooth by kinda upping the frame-rate, but can result in distortion and the timing of animations feeling off. You can see them used most in this video during the slow-motion bits to make them less choppy but it also ends up with some pretty nasty distortion

[@sickteej]

The first 1.07 of the video is edited so fucking well. I had to pause and comment this before I continued watching. Great work

[@jasonmcbride637]

"Melee is bullshit but it's OUR bullshit." Sums up my experience spending 6hrs to download slippi and get my first game against a dude with invulnerability hacks who couldn't even Waveland lmfao. Also the game froze every time he threw me offstage and resumed when I was on halo platform 😂

[@jaltgelt1644]

I’m just glad I was the first to mention that this was close enough for “Turndownforwalt”.

[@bagofsteel9152]

Hbox got robbed. He had the better play with very intentional inputs and it's such a disappointment to hear the commentators not recognize that. Zain didn't calculate that, but was extraordinarily lucky. At least losses like those don't feel that bad. Still a great match and if it had to end that way then it really ended pretty evenly.

[@_ben_miller]

Shine, peach dsmash, Falco dair are also pretty broken

[@Moises46441]

How exactly can you pull off all that controller data and the different angles of replays?

[@saxeladude]

As an anti stalling rule would it be a bad Idea to have games that go to time determine winner by stage advantage before dmg percents where the player on or above stage wins (not including ledge), damage is only considered if both players have the same stage positioning (so edge guarding is determined by percent not distance to the stage). Idk myself I see reasons why it could do well or poorly including players in tumble saved by the bell still lose. but it also encourages defensive play and discourages edge guards. Though the caveat of only when both players are have unequal stage advantage means that if both players are on stage in the last minute the strategy is to force the opponent off stage. Also characters that have struggling recoveries are buffed no longer needing to go deep against aerial characters at lower percents. These factors could make it better or worse what's your thoughts?

[@user-bkey]

this vid makes me want to watch melee again

[@theSato]

at 2:48, why is the Super Smash Con 2023 match blacked out? Looked it up myself and dont see anything bad there?

[@DerkDurski]

It's the set this video is about

[@Gabriel64468]

Just because its what the Video is about, I assume.

[@JovialSkunk]

Weird bug. Their boxes were on top of each other.

[@nextkestrel]

Great video!

[@Nikkerman]

Interesting, I always though this one was because of the fair hurtbox shifting, guess I was wrong

[@silvesta5027]

This video is really well edited but it could’ve easily been half the length

[@sway3365]

Best vid in a while! Loved it

[@goora1866]

The Lethal League Blaze music

[@applesaltlive]

how do you get dolphin replays for tournament sets?

[@applesaltlive]

or do you just recreate them?

[@inediblemangoes7797]

Damn didn’t know it was a frame

[@NyrinTriball]

"It's bullshit, but it's OUR bullshit" I have a lot more respect for people that get this with whatever game they're playing. Sometimes, things are bullshit, and that's what makes it fun, as said in the end.

[@SleepyBrady]

man as an Hbox fan I would have loved to see him win but Zain is just so goddamn good and lucky too. This was a hype set and Zain is an awesome player. Amazing

[@user-nb5hl3qd2m]

This would’ve been the best match the rest wouldve been awesome but he was lucky because hitboxes saved him. Awesome analysis dude.

[@feelsokayman5656]

Long live the Melee

[@bby7630]

I was in the crowd when that happened

[@tree2992]

I'd recognize Phraser's editing style anywhere!

[@J0J0Jetz]

Oh nice! just discovered your channel and watching this video bc your content is goated and I randomly see my vid shouted out WHATTTT. lol. great vid and you have a new sub!

[@deemz312]

I have zero idea what you were saying or what it means. But what an enjoyable fight that was

[@jahridin]

I guess you're confusing ASDI down and crouch cancel. If it knocks down, then you cannot ASDI down (besides to amsah tech/ floor hug). Funny video nonetheless !

[@noahkelly8907]

Great content 🎉

[@tysonjame9637]

I’m still very new to all of melee how did Walt get the control schemes when he was talking about Hgod stick jumping and Zains possible ASDI down?

[@Jinju___]

Because turndownforwalt is simply an alter-ego for masahiro sakurai

[@haleyjadelovethatname]

did Ness just call me a mf 😂

[@TheXeeman]

ive never played melee and have no idea whats going on but it is interesting nonetheless

[@killercore007]

Imagine if GW up b was frame 1 in Smash Ult

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I hoped this would give hbox the motivation to become one of the top 4 in the world again. It didn't but It was still nice to see hbox in grands. Let me rephrase that. I hate seeing hbox in grands normally but I am also nostalgic for the hbox era so it was nice to see him at almost his top form.

[@TKanoWrites]

2:51 what have I started

[@wilsontas2177]

AMAZING video!! And nice Jigglypuff TAS 👀

[@chichachang303]

Hey man, it was a gamble on a difficult one frame link, when he was a whole stock behind, that part doesn’t seem broken to me

[@bugcatcherharold5315]

Rest is such a weird move. It's the probably only move in any fighting game that is commonly unsafe on /kill./

[@Point5_]

Frame perfect fumble

[@MonkeGeek]

Game and Watch will a frame 4 option. Game and Watch is top 3 in the game. BanG&W

[@sagragoth1]

5:45 i don't know what effect you used to make the slowdown on this but please don't do it again, i had a lot of trouble focusing on what you were saying with those weird nightmare jigglypuff motions

[@sagragoth1]

anyway thank you for the video walt,0

[@kachowabunga17]

I LOVE TURN DOWN FOR WALT AND TURN DOWN FOR ULT EVERYONE SHOULD SUBSCRIBE TO BOTH OF THESE CHANNELS!!!

[@slof69]

such a good vid

[@Inari_YT]

🔥

[@thomasa4749]

Common Walt A+++ video

[@Oooooooop10]

Isn't Luigi nair frame 1 as well?

[@syntax2679]

this video broke my heart

[@lilitheve638]

Oh shit, you're the guy who's subscribed to asumsaus's patreon

[@todoeltiempodelmundo3546]

As a puff lover, it really hurt seeing hbox missing the rest. Hopefully he will be close again to winning a tournament. It will happen, i know it will, and he will win. We just have to wait...

[@fishchips5121]

appreciate the lethal league music

[@Figgy20000]

Thanks for making a video about Foxes Usmash its about time

[@DrewBearYT]

Something being difficult to use is now broken?

[@emanwonkon2205]

I literally know nothing about melee. I literally learned nothing except that if he jumped a frame earlier he wouldve won (somehow)

[@dirtsquids9854]

My question. If jmook was the puff and Zain was charging neutral b to punish the missed rest, could he have amsah teched it and lived ? Great video !

[@mewdancing]

He got sent upwards diagonally, so no

[@tarotdactyl752]

Casual watcher here. Super interesting video. Thanks for putting this together!

[@salvatore_slate]

great video

[@magronorph5029]

The AI upscaling on the slowdown footage looks very awkward. Other than that, great video

[@2late2go2n8]

Nice video. Feels a bit weird though to put the clips of Hbox screaming randomly in the video. And really respect the grind you are doing with your channels.

[@crazycowcraft350]

Bring back where you at as an outro

[@TuftedDreamer]

I hate that i love this complex game man 😅 wish i could play at thier level lol