Turning Players Into Payers (The Jimquisition)

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

I'm so sick of your bitching and assumptions with no facts. "Only whales buy crates". You are basing that off of conversations and conjecture, you have no hard facts showing game sales and who buys crates. People dont mind loot crates as long as its not gameplay changing (hence the uproar with battlefront and shadow of war). Games are incredibly expensive to make and market, and NO its not developers pushing the graphics envelope for their sake, the consumer loves amazing graphics and will often complain "looks like ps3" when a game isn't freaking astounding. You are a "games journalist" there is nothing noble or special about your job, you talk about video games for christ sake. You are NOT in the industry, you have never programmed or made any sort of 3d art or map, and NO making youtube videos doesn't make you a "creator" or creative. Dead space 2 selling 4 million and not being successful is proof enough on how expensive modern games are to make. Steam and retailers take a 30% cut, + a game can only be 60 bucks for so long so profits go down. I dont care spending 80-100 bucks over the course of a year on a game if I like it. Get used to it you entitled little babies who don't know how the world works or the effort involved in making games. I'm sure your sheep audience will rush to downvote me. You want to really convince me, you need to be in the industry and present numbers, salaries, years to develop, marketing and distribution costs, and weigh that vs selling a single 60 dollar game, not your constant assumptions and bitching!

[@Andrius971]

Okay, then let the industry publish the numbers. Please. I want to see them. Tell the industry, to present ALL of their numbers and dirty laundry. Then we will talk.

[@valathreon2791]

...What? Okay, I can understand what you said about how AAA games can become expensive to make, with costs rocketing into the tens of millions, and I understand that companies need to be able to make that money back and be able to turn a profit. However, you also have to consider the consumers (players). There's a difference between earning money from players buying your game + expansions, and practically leeching money off of them with promises of virtual satisfaction through microtransactions/lootboxes.

[@endangeredspecies8441]

THePunisher Xxx your a sheep if I've ever seen one. Wake up brother

[@BaxtheIron4th]

Oh you are a treat lmao

[@tgtg5166]

Ooooh he pinned this, this is gonna be a bloody good one.

[@stinkbanana2522]

Back in my day we called it spyware

[@PhyreI3ird]

RIGHT??? This is what I very first thought. Give it any other name, it's flagrant spyware. But I suppose with data mining being legal jobs it's not even as far as being in the *grey* area of law, huh?

[@plapbandit]

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[@ahniandfriends123]

Yeah, *laughs in TimeSink* *laughs harder in Bonzi Buddy*

[@FloodlightGamingReal]

I called it in my days. AKA 1 week ago.

[@DYKG_Clips]

"Turning players into payers" just sounds like a catchphrase for a pimping service...

[@JamesTheCelestial]

Oh, hey, you're here. getvinnyvinesauceontheshowalready

[@Spootnik]

DidYouKnowGaming? 2 Welcome to modern gaming!

[@sunbro6998]

I bet whoever came up with that catchphrase jizzed their pants when they shared it.

[@krivdik]

or 1984 scenario, you are just a piece of resource, sentenced to be exploited and then thrown aside when there is no more use of you.

[@madmaster0015]

+DidYouKnowGaming? 2 No, you're thinking of "Turning payers into players" common mistake.

[@dartharmis5562]

I wish Ferrari used Dynamic Pricing...

[@MT-rh3bq]

Darth Armis fuck Ferrari,I wish the housing market used dynamic pricing.

[@gearfriedtheswmas]

They probably would if they could make only a single car then be able to sell it to everybody.

[@Yelqo]

inb4 you realise that its standart price will be its minimal because Dynamic Pricing aims for more money, not less

[@MakeItWithJim]

gearfriedtheswmas that's Fiat punto

[@anousenic]

Wouldn't help you much because fuel doesn't come with dynamic pricing and insurance costs *do*.

[@daultonryan2146]

Remember when you bought a game....and that was it? Yea I loved those days to.

[@BigMuskachini]

I still live in those days, i only ever buy a game that offers me the full product, and i'll never get it day 1. WoW, imagine that? Some personal responsibility.

[@KitsyX]

Personally, I like when you can enhance or lengthen your experience of one of your favourite games by investing in an expansion or something... I don't mind buying extra stuff if there's value in it... The problem for me is when it's a bunch of crap, not that it exists at all.

[@KitsyX]

Personally, I like when you can enhance or lengthen your experience of one of your favourite games by investing in an expansion or something... I don't mind buying extra stuff if there's value in it... The problem for me is when it's a bunch of crap, not that it exists at all.

[@daultonryan2146]

KitsyX I don't mind buying expansions either if it's clearly not content cut from the game which unfortunately is a trend in the industry. Mafia 2 is a great example of how to do expansions properly.

[@WiMRaven]

I think the last time I bought full DLC or a season pass and was happy with what I bought was Fallout 3, New Vegas, and BF4. Games that were complete in their own right, but added a TON of new content with expansions. There was nothing left out of those games that was saved for the sake of DLC purchases.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

I am a nurse. And sometimes I wish that I had some of those greedy suits lying on my ward, because I would _love_ to play the game of DLC and lootboxes with them. Hello, good Sirs, I am your friendly nurse and you've just bought a copy of *"Basic Care"!* This includes me checking on you regularly at the beginning, the middle and the end of my shift, me sending a trainee nurse with your meds and even three meals a day! Of course there is more! There are great things that can and will extend and enhance your hospital experience! Things like... - "wiping your ass" - "the nurse nurse is kind to you" - "the nurse has time for a conversation" - or even "the friendly nurse has time for a converstation"! Amazing experiences like... - "answering your questions" - "comforting you when you are scared" - "changing your bandages, even when they are not completely grubby" - "changing your bedclothes more often than once a week" - "getting painkillers when you need them"! And all of it is accessible through just a tiny bit of grinding, called "moving your ass to the nursing station", "making me lots of compliments", "shut up when the nurse is in a bad mood", "never complain or even ask for something" or "making me gifts". But of course we understand that as a busy executive you might not have the time for all the grind. And being the sympathetic nurses we are, we even offer a solution for that! For only 1000 Euro you can buy our *DLC - Direct Loving Care* that not only includes all of the mentioned goodies above, but also comes with an extra -skin- colored bandage that is exclusive to our DLC! You don't feel like you want our DLC? Why not trying our *Care Boxes* that give you that extra flexibility? Each *Care Box* only costs 50 Euro and has a staggering 5% chance of giving you the treatment you actually need! And they even come in batches - get 5 Care Boxes for the price of 4 and a half! Yes, I think I like that idea. I am seeing my meager salary getting considerably boosted in the near future! And the best thing, according to companies like €A, _both_ sides will benefit from that!

[@MasterLagoz]

TAKE MY MONEY NOW!!?!?

[@spamhands]

Furzkampfbomber glorious

[@mario199923]

This is the greatest analogy in the history of logic

[@vrapbrap]

As a practical nurse, I should be charging with this same method. I'll give them a care box where the roll a random thing. Might be an activity, actual care and me giving a shit, but with a 90% chance its just me calling it a day early and going home.

[@TheGrayMysterious]

YES.

[@WeegeeSlayer123]

I hope THePunisher Xxx enjoys getting exploited at every turn by the greed of today's tripple A gaming.

[@koriharpoon2476]

THePunisher Xxx Is either a sucky player that needs to buy victory or maybe he is good but likes the microtransactions to keep the competition low.

[@nihilityjoey]

Kori Harpoon 😣😣😣😣what a fucking stupid, confused comment. So he either sucks, and needs micro transactions, meaning they give him an edge, Or he wants to keep them around to keep the competition low (the micro transactions are supposed to give the noob an advatage though) ???????? Fuck me I've heard it all now. So then what good are the micro transactions to anyone? Surely they should be propping the shit players up to compete with the good ones if anything. Jesus this is what happens when fucking cunts with bad genes have sex.

[@Foreverredlips]

Do not attempt civil discurse with such a one sided person, it'll just be a waste of time.

[@AdmiralBison]

WeegeeSlayer he’s probably a whale in denial about his OCD being exploited......or is a shill. Neither would surprise me in the least.

[@brickman409]

To be fair, he probably does.

[@stockicide]

That Scientfic Revenue video sounds like an ad from one of those dystopian movies where the squeaky clean facade hasn't cracked to show the dark underbelly yet.

[@Cookieofdoom]

stockicide fuck yeah, it is freaking scary

[@hatman4818]

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... And I am all out of bubblegum...

[@kestral63]

They have a version they show players that suddenly cuts to footage of a teacup being stirred.

[@TARINunit9]

Considering SciRev's sales pitch is probably illegal price discrimination, not a bad comparison

[@schibleh531]

GET OUT, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?! OUT NOW

[@demongrenade2748]

That pinned comment has so many replies that it lags chrome.... And it can't support more....

[@demongrenade2748]

Okay? I see your point and I agree but it has nothing to do with why no more replies can be supported on that comment. Its not that the comment is locked or the user is keeping replies from being posted, its that its reached the max supported amount of replies that any comment has (which is 500). There's nothing anyone can do about that.

[@nimb321]

Yeah... it blew my browser too. And I was so desperate to fart in the posters face...

[@iainclark8695]

It has more likes than the video itself has dislikes. It's a 3 paragraph diatribe on a website where nobody reads too. That's extremely fishy. It also has 3 subscriptions off the back of those 1.7k likes. I'm sure it's downright fraudulent.

[@T0asty-]

Right? hahahaha

[@Xidphel]

Worth it.

[@Meximagician]

8:12 So, the American airline industry is under investigation for PRICE GOUGING during the 2017 hurricane season. Meanwhile Uber got a lot of customers to uninstall the Uber app after both acting as scabs during a January 2017 taxi driver strike and temporarily allowing PRICE SURGING during that time (they later disabled the price surging, likely only after the outcry). Meanwhile Jackass McGee from Scientific Revenue here is telling us to look to these two industries for comfort? That's like being caught sneaking around at night with a machete and saying "Hey, don't worry about it! Lots of people walk around at midnight with a machete. Just ask my buddy, Jason Voorhees!"

[@japansace]

"Turning players into payers." Jeeeeeesus. They're really dragging the subtext straight into the text, aren't they?

[@nitehawk86]

It makes me wonder if these douchebags did not realize their little marketing video might get seen by the public.

[@TheKiroshi]

They feel like they dont need to hide it.. When they're just doing what should be done. Jim isn't kidding. These people literally see others as sources of money. Theyre alienated and its not for comedic effect.

[@caseygoddard]

Maybe we should make THEM pay?

[@LionHeat]

"Turning players into payers." REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@loxyloafcake5184]

Blair White It’s still dehumanizing people who play video games.

[@spinyjustspiny3289]

"I can already see the posts on NeoGAF and Reddit now!" Oh, I guess I know when th- "...Well I can already see the posts on Reddit now!" My sides entered orbit.

[@RadarHawk]

"Charging people different prices is fair because everyone has different incomes". By that logic I should be able to go down to the local dealership and get a Ferrari for $1,000 while the rich guys pay 100,000.

[@DC-hw7fw]

I mean, please? Can I get that Lamborghini?

[@MechaEmperor7000]

(for the record, agreeing with you here) The absolute maximum end to that is that we should just quit our jobs. That way we can take anything we want for free, since that's essentially 100% our income at that point, which means by their logic that would be paying way more than the plebs who are *only* spending 10k on the game when they make 2 million a year. But you know, they won't actually repeat this logic when it utterly screws them over.

[@jaykay3811]

Where is my free Ferrari corporations?

[@chelazy]

Ever heard of price discrimination? Same amount of money's worth is different for different people. A successful business knows how to achieve max consumer surplus. And yes charging different prices for a same product is fair. Why are you surprised? You know why companies dont blatantly do it? Because mindsets like your reply. So they use different degrees/techniques of price discrimination which is categorically the same as charging different people the same thing differently. And people are suddenly fine about them just cause.

[@the1tigglet]

Exactly!

[@richardrichardsnotface6229]

THePunisher Xxx - A couple of things: The development and success of Hellblade pretty much negates 90% of your argument about compensating the expense of making a video game in modern day. Also coming from a guy who has worked in the industry, the tools and software used in making those games has become much cheaper and made much more easily accessible in recent times. Some publishers have ridiculous expectations, like EA not thinking in the long term when they think Dead Space 2 selling 4 million copies as not successful, that's really successful for a game in that genre. The biggest problem in the industry today is the control and pressures that publishers put on developers, EA being the worst offenders. They set themselves up to fail by only investing in producing 100 million dollar games and not looking where they can push the envelope elsewhere; so in case they don't re-coup that 100 million they jam micro-transactions and loot-boxes into the game, even going to the point of changing the game design entirely so they can force that crap in. Look at how successful companies like Rockstar, CD Proj Red are when they are left to create a game without publisher pressure. But sadly most publishers aren't interested in the quality of the games/gaming experience but only how much cash they can milk from it. Also, you say ''You are not in the industry' to Jim, but hasn't Jim done some voice-over work for video games? I'm pretty sure that constitutes working in the games industry in some form.

[@Meocross]

You are putting a lot of hope in Developers that have given us more than enough signs that we are just another paycheck, the moment you accept this darkness is the moment you can see the light. All this money you are spending? Enough to buy your daughter or your sister that cute or cheap diamond necklace. Enough to fill the whole fucking fridge with snacks.

[@rafaelneumann8365]

The developers are not paid by the game's profit. They couldn't care less about micro transactions other than the fact that it is mandated from above and EA will NOT SELL THEIR GAME if they don't shoehorn it in. Developers are paid to make the game through contract. And if they can't fulfil that contract, the publisher doesn't care. Either they ship the game anyway, the way it is, or they get a few months to iron it out with NO PAY or reduced pay. But regardless of the game being a flop or making all the money in the world (by quality or forcing micro transactions through their costumer's noses), the developers will get the same pay check... usually FAR bellow the earning of equivalent professionals in ANY other industry.

[@AlwaysANemesis]

Let's also account the fact that Undertale, on the budget of a box of crayons, became _mega-popular_ and elevated its creator into the status of a millionaire. And this was all without flashy presentation, and hyper-realistic details all the way down to the last fucking polygon on goat-mom's ass; it did so on being a genuine and powerful product in its own right that got people invested. *And all of that without manipulating the fucking customers out of pennies.*

[@gamingwithslacker]

RichardRichard Snotface Id just like to say that Rockstar shouldnt be held up as a virtuous game dev. Other than that, I 100% agree.

[@jaykay3811]

Jim is an expert on the industry. Just because he isn't a part of the problem and actively defending corporations and trying to rip people off doesn't mean he isn't a part of the industry.

[@Lukey-ts2xv]

Publishers seeing THePunisher Xxx's comment: IT'S HUGE! FIRE THE HARPOONS BOYS, WE CANT LET THIS ONE GET AWAY! WE'RE GONNA MAKE A FORTUNE I TELL YA!

[@Handelo]

His point seems solid until you realize games cost a lot to publish not because of the development cost, but because of the advertisement cost. Triple-A publishers lead advertising campaigns at an average cost of tens of millions of dollars per game, which is always far more than what the game actually cost to develop. If developers would self-publish and keep the advertising to game media like gaming news sites and such, while forgoing the primetime tv spots, the overall publishing costs would drop significantly.

[@89blackguard]

No his point isnt "valid" at all. if they are blowing more on marketing than on game development then Publishers are morons....and I doubt they are. They know how to turn the bucks around. They are just excuses. Server costs are lies, dev costs are lies. How the fuck did they make the money back in the past? by giving games for free? No fuck that 12 yr old halo kid. He has no fucking idea what he's talking about and I bet that mommy and daddy aoy for his ass to be wiped too. Fuck him

[@Handelo]

I wasn't really agreeing with him. Dev costs shouldn't really have risen in the past few years. For every new technology someone invents, 5 others developed in previous games are streamlined for ease of integration (like how Unreal Engine 4 handles it). But as a matter of fact, publishers do spend way more than they should on advertising. I do take some of what I said back, though. After looking into it, in most triple-A game cases, the ratio is pretty much 1:1, but in some cases, advertising costs _are_ way higher than the actual game development costs. I think CoD Modern Warfare 2 was one of the biggest offenders of this, with a 50 million development budget, and a 200 million advertising budget. But this isn't a new thing and has been happening for a generation now. Final Fantasy VII, back in 1997, also cost around 50 million to develop, and 100 million was spent on advertising. Prime time TV Spots, cinematic trailers, trailer showings in cinemas, ads, billboards, you name it. All of those cost a LOT. For reference, a single 30-second TV Spot during prime time hours could cost upwards of 300,000$. And the results speak for themselves. Which game are you more familiar with, even if you've never played it? Call of Duty, or ARMA? Like you said, publishers aren't idiots. They simply put the money into what they think will get more people to buy their games, and not into actually making those games good.

[@89blackguard]

I know man, sorry, anger isn't aimed at you. It pisses me off that there's people that actually think like that. On your pint about marketing though. I understand that it's important to get the word out there, but I think there comes a point when you need to cut back on that. As a consumer I really do not give a flying fuck if they had to pay 100$ to make me buy a 60$ game. If that's the case, the problem is with the marketing. I should not pay for them to spread the word. Or rather I'd be inclined to understand if they didn't assign a marketing budget 4 times the size of the game dev costs. It's ridiculous

[@Handelo]

Extremely ridiculous. But the thing is, they don't care much about their marketing funds, because microtransactions now exist to cover those costs. It doesn't matter how many people vote with their wallets. Some people will always be willing to spend enough to cover the costs of dozens of missed potential consumers. And in the case the game still fails to reach the profit margin the publisher set, they blame the developer, cutting their funding or outright dissolving their studio. And this is done when games still generate a profit of tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. It's just not enough for those greedy publishers. Publishers are the bane of modern gaming. That's why I'm done buying games from the triple-A scene. If developers want my money, they should self-publish, just like indie and double-A developers do. Divinity: Original Sin 2 and Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice are recent prime examples of the success of such endeavors. Hopefully more developers follow suit.

[@GavinHohenheim]

To put a little fuel into the fire: all products with flexible pricing mentioned as defense share one quality: they are limited resources. there are only so many plane seats, for example, therefore prices have to be adjusted according to supply and demand. With digital goods such as freemium currency, supply is virtually (heh) limitless, and therefore other economic laws (as in "laws of nature" but for economics, not actual legislature) apply. The bloke compares apples with seawater. Plus, the Nash Equilibrium is a well known economical phenomenon that states that if everyone tries to recklessly get the max result, nobody will achieve the optimum and the system might even crash completely. Some have to "play suboptimally" so that the system as a whole can work. In the end, SciRev is not only morally questionable, it is additionally, plain and simple, bad economics.

[@Yal_Rathol]

GavinHohenheim bad economics has a tendency to crash and burn horrifically, isn't that right 2008? so, considering you seem to know more econonics than me, how long are you betting on until the market crashes? because i have 0 economics training and my guess is 5-10 years.

[@nitehawk86]

SciRev is the DeBeers model of software. Create an artificial scarcity and convince the masses they absolutely need your product. We don't need shitty games infected with their crap.

[@silvisakeru]

Spot on. All the examples in the article by Gamasutra had the limit of available supply, and thus this does not apply to virtual products where supply is virtually infinite. Good job pointing that out.

[@dominiquegomez3071]

GavinHohenheim As an Economics student I love the fact that you've mentioned this

[@desmondbrown5508]

Hell you don't even need Nash Equilibrium to figure that out. That's basic math. There "was" limited money (but even still there is limited value for each dollar) and if everyone, selling games, takes more and more in the system then the value decreases which creates a massive wealth gap and then no one can buy your stuff, because the industry isn't interested in buying games, because they want to sell, but your customers don't have enough money to offset costs of selling... so you reach a stalemate where nothing can move and the industry is done.

[@WolfA4]

THePunisher Xxx is a classic case of "Video Game Stockholm Syndrome."

[@jackandersen1262]

Meanwhile, the person who created that account is looking at this having a good old laugh about the whole situation.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I see 2 other possibilities. 1) An alt account of someone who works for a company like Scientific Revenue, or a game "developer" that does this stupid monetization shit. Or 2) someone trolling and laughing. Poe's Law after all.

[@Changetheling]

More like "standard sub-IQ byproduct of [Insert Country Name here]"

[@PutridPenguinPoots]

@@StormsparkPegasus I know that this is way late but when I read it those were the first 2 things that popped into my mind and it's probably the first one

[@GunGreenGo]

@@StormsparkPegasus I agree. seems like a case of bought "likes" just like russias internet research agency

[@umgajoperdido2660]

You should be more understanding Jim, publishers are having a rough life. Look at EA, they are probably hitting a record high of only 5 billion dollars net profits this year, after a rough patch since 2015 where they didn't sunk bellow the 4 billion mark and kept a steady upward trend. My hearts and prayers are with them, poor bastards. (Thanks for stepping up for us, the consumers

[@hyperx72]

Life was very tough on them. They had a small loan of a million dollars.

[@SomeRandomJackAss]

They can barely afford to keep a development team, the poor babies. They keep "having" to Old Yeller them.

[@killarun4288]

Poor EA was forced to close its studio Visceral Games because of financial difficulty. Its chairman, investors, and CEO only afford to buy 2 private islands this year so they need mictrotransactions to recover

[@PepeMetallero]

um gajo perdido you tell then brother! Amen!

[@DragonNexus]

Where's their parade!? #EALivesMatter

[@FiendMatadorSlayerOfNoobs]

Somehow I can't shake the feeling that Jim pinned ThePunisher Xxx's comment just so he could memorize it for his Commentocracy.

[@PhyreI3ird]

I think that would be too on the nose, I'm betting it's something else.

[@Kitties_are_pretty]

I'm almost certain it was to direct people to his post so fans could tear him apart.

[@FiendMatadorSlayerOfNoobs]

Apperantly it was something else. It would have been funny, though.

[@thriceandonce]

"fuck with the orc merchant" best game of the year 2017

[@Haan22]

Possibly EA's best product this year.

[@amandabarrow8094]

They're coming...just wait.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Sylv Aine Most meta game of 2017.

[@notknownlogic4161]

ROFLMAOOO

[@demongrenade2748]

As someone who wants to become a game designer, the industry makes me want to puke.

[@reservoirfrogs2177]

DemonGrenade274 Go indie now when they'll be the only ones left to turn to

[@yomomma16]

I'm a programmer (not a game programmer), and everyone says gaming is one of the worst industries to work in. With insane work hours, crazy deadlines, low moral, and relatively low pay.

[@demongrenade2748]

Well to be honest alot of that depends on what company you work for. Though insane work hours and crazy deadlines hit just about all studios during crunch time, low moral and low pay are very dependent on where you end up. While I do plan on working for an existing company (at least for the first few years to get some experience), I have a list of companies I will not work for unless I absolutely have to. EA is one of them.

[@madbloodgod9442]

Hate them all you want, but they are the ones you want to work for if you want to work with truly talented ppl. As the indie has grown as it is, the big companies still the place where most talents will end up and they are the one you want to learn from before going independent. Unless you are truly genius that can already get paid from your work, you have to work for the big companies first, not to mention they are the one trying to get more new and fresh ppl. As for how bad they are as an industry to work for, tbh that goes for every industry. If there is ppl running it there will be avarice.

[@RJ_Productions316]

DemonGrenade274 if a KZbin career dosent work out my plan is to become a concept artist for gaming companies (bethesda, etc) but the gaming industry needs to GET THEIR HEAD OUT OF THEIR ASS

[@seventyfive7597]

Actually there is one correction that makes a HUGE difference: game sales are a bigger cut than microtransactions for _most_ pc games. Not the other way around. Remembering this will allow us to remember rule number one - if you buy the game with the intent of not purchasing MTs, you've sent no message to the publisher. But avoiding buying a game because it has microtransactions - this sends a message to the entire industry.

[@Grangolus]

SeventyFive Which is exactly why Shadow of War will not enter my hands unless it's for free.

[@ShuriknIbuki]

I think you're still right... for now... but I don't think this'll last much longer the way things are going.

[@zztzgza]

Did you see the report that Blizzard put out for the amount of money they made off of loot box sales, $1 Billion dollars. EA made like 65 Million from Fifa 2K17 club microtransactions. Activision made Millions as well from Black ops 3 weapon crates. They don't need to just avoid the games that have MT's from these publishers but these publishers altogether whether a game has MT's or not. I feel bad for the Devs that work for them but they should be putting their foot down on this as well.

[@TobyStartz]

+SeventyFive The major problem with that is that you end up hurting the developers as well, and most of the time the developers don't really have any say in the financial decisions that are undertaken by the publishers and simply have to comply while trying to make those features (like loot crates, day one DLC, special edition content, etc) as irrelevant and unimportant as possible so they don't end up driving off the consumers. It's a shitty situation nonetheless, but if a developers is able to pull this off and makes a worthwhile game in the process, you can still support them by purchasing the game *and* sending a message to the publishers by not buying any of the features that you don't like.

[@TheChessicfayth]

Here's the problem mate. The games industry seems to take a perverse delight in interpreting that data their own way. If a game isn't successful because the fans didn't like a favored pricing mechanic or some such, they'll insist that the problem is a lack of interest in the IP, whatever that happens to be. And indeed, from their point of view, its true. Obviously they need to stop making games for that IP, and find a different one that is so interesting that people will put up with this kind of bullshit. So there's really no winning. They'll just keep doing the things they do. Because with few exceptions, they don't actually care about what we think.

[@ouroldhouse3674]

"Pricing Signals" Eugh... Makes me shudder like Sideshow Bob.

[@Flotube444]

Big Brother is watching you ... since 1984 apparently.

[@ouroldhouse3674]

Whoa, wait! @Jim Sterling You should definitely use a clip from The Talos Principle or Serious Sam, they have this "easter egg" of a guy in the company wearing a suit who just constantly yells "money!" while a big pile of cash sits on his desk. It's... Perfect.

[@Nightmare_52]

Brilliant!

[@Araneus21]

Use the clip from that Tom&Jerry movie, the one with the balding banker guy saying "We've got to have...money !"

[@HunterSkanvis]

OMG i just found it, would absolutely fit into one of Jim's videos!

[@ccondescending]

Scientific pricing is an attempt to apply perfect price discrimination, which is a concept in economics that essentially means charging each individual consumer the maximum price they're willing to pay for a good. Price discrimination is an attempt by firms to take consumer surplus and convert it to revenue, and perfect price discrimination takes all consumer surplus and converts it to revenue. I would need a legal expert to confirm this, but as far as I know, price discrimination is an anticompetitive and illegal practice in the United States, specifically that firms are required to charge all consumers the same price (see Robinson-Patman Act of 1936). In a market that is already so geared in favour of firms and large corporations, surely there is a case for stronger government regulation against price discrimination, at least in its perfect form. What a disgusting business practice. Thanks for bringing this to light Jim, you're a fucking hero. Perhaps there's scope for a class action lawsuit? I'd donate to that fund even though I live in Australia. Stamp out this predatory business practice before it gets any stronger.

[@iexistasaconstruct]

ccondescending The funniest thing is I never consider microtransanctions unless I get stuff for free so this would really be beneficial for me.

[@emprsnm9903]

A system such as this opens a nasty can of worms. That it would urge impulse-buy mentality 100% of the time, targeting 100% of a persons disposible income. Leaving people constantly broke, and without a sense of self control. All the while thinking they've 'saved' so much money on 'deals'. They've saved nothing, they're broke always! As an anecdote; This kind of semi-individualized/preditory appeal and conveinience factor is present in credit card solicitations, for example. Which also seek to vacuume up 100% of someones disposible income. Look what wonderfull opportunities that has commonly benefitted consumers; Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

[@charlesballiet7074]

not true just look at gas prices

[@charlesballiet7074]

@@murtisoft ha I saw what you did there. yea same price for each customer at any one location but not across different locations

[@Intrspace]

But regional pricing makes a lot of sense and is actually to the benefit of the customer. Let's say an item in a game costs 2€ and you have two customers. One is from California and the other is from Ukraine. The Californian makes over 5000€ per month and pays 90% of it in taxes and expenses, ending up with 500€ free to spend on anything. The Ukrainian makes 100€ per month and pays 90% of it in taxes and expenses, ending up with only 10€ to spend. That's the problem with globally consistent pricing. Even if both the aforementioned players' buying-power in their respective countries is the same, the disparity becomes clear when only the nominal value of money matters. So the perfect system would scale the 2€ pricetag up for the richest parts of the world, and down for the poorest.

[@GarryGabriel]

The biggest issue with ALL of the examples, they are based on merchandise or content that has LIMITED QUANTITIES there's only so many Airplane tickets or Auctions are for a singular item, things that live on the back of supply and demand. The availability for digital content is practically limitless, which makes the idea of supply and demand pointless.

[@derdrakkar]

Underrated argument.

[@robm6726]

agreed it costs virtually nothing to have storage of a digital medium you only need the storage space for the original code on a server then you download a copy of the microtransaction and boom profit.

[@ColtaineCrows]

I'm sure Nintendo can conjure up a way to make digital content scarce.

[@kastaway-mtx]

Great comment.

[@dantespimp]

I wish this comment got pinned since this is a major and valid point.

[@LooneyJuice]

I'm in this strange place right now. On one hand, I'm sad that this is the latest thing to plague the industry. On the other hand, I find myself gleefully receiving yet another industry video vivisection by Mr. Jim Sterling son. Edit: Apologies, I meant Jim - *fucking* - Sterling son. Where are my manners?

[@DragoonBB]

LooneyJuice Either way we can thank god for Jim fucking Sterling son!

[@ince55ant]

Heres a thing that really stands out in my memory because dev talks about finance are typically the most depressing thing ever, i get a constant sense of despiration from them constantly... Anywho: i was at a small game dev conference last year and a dev from Fireproof Games was giving a talk. 2mins in to his planned speech he snapped and went on a rant about how devs shouldnt care about meta data and should really focus on making the games they want to see. Ignore the alledged market demands of being F2P, if you make a good game you can make money on a single payment game (using their The Room as an example). Everyone cheered, it was very refreshing to hear this alternative (even though its older) to an imagined demand for free to play. The microsoft rep who was on after really struggled to win the crowd back :P

[@terrydrain]

Rad McCool That's what we want to hear yes, but it is not the truth. You can do that. You can win the lottery.

[@JimSterling]

There just needs to be a balance. From the dev side, yes costs of development are rising and they need to combat it. But I discussed in The Sixty Dollar Myth exactly what the problem is. The needle swung to the extreme end.

[@Howtard]

I think the larger studios are (and have been) pushing _really_ hard for a Hollywood style business model, they are both unsustainable systems which used to enjoy a monopoly on distribution but the web era is forcing them out of their comfort zone and causing scummy practices. Half the complaints people make about Marvel films and the CoD series are interchangeable. It's the same mindset and may be the same investors involved

[@georgem1874]

I think this is the crux of the issue. And ultimately a significant portion of the blame lies on the core of gamers. In some ways we were happy to accept this world because for many it didnt affect us. We didnt need to pay more because some other person was droping 40 dollars for a hat (or some such nonsense). Thing is, seriously sit and ask yourself what the community would do if a developer just honestly said, hey, this next big budget single player game, its going to cost $90. In that you get all the content, no chopped up dlc, no microtransactions, but the sticker cost is $90 or 100 or whatever it needs to be. Do you really think the community is ready to look at that with a rational mind?

[@reeven1721]

George M Back in 2011 I'd have bought Skyrim for 100$. Not every game is Skyrim though.

[@HalfBlindProductions]

Wether or not this business model works or is popular it doesn't change the moral aspect of this model. Sure it's all legal but that doesn't mean it's not scummy

[@MaXF25]

Yeah, It's like people forgot that slavery was popular. But i like to think that people more like, "i have no moral standards nor the ability to make thoughts. My only resource is to do what others do". I think this is called "Psychology of the mass"

[@willteach7753]

+Half Blind Productions I think that this is one of the more interesting aspects of business that walks a careful line very close to the edge of legality. What this is mainly known as is third-degree price discrimination, which is a legal practice by businesses for surprisingly common things, such as price differences between adults, children, and the elderly in ticket sales. It could be also known as a discriminating monopoly, given how there is a monopoly control of a product/service exclusive to the company. Where it gets tricky is if the price change is motivated by a "protected class" discrimination. Strangely, I don't know of any case whereby an age discrimination, such as for ticket sales, was used for a case against such practice; I guess age-related price discrimination is so common that no one is complaining about it? Perhaps it's because it serves as a boon, or simply because the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 is the only age-related civil rights law and it doesn't cover age discrimination in business practices? According to the Elder-law section at the "Lawyers" commercial domain site, it seems to be the latter. Interestingly, age is utilized in advertising and marketing demographics, and so far is entirely legal to be used for price discrimination and/or discriminating monopolies. It is highly unlikely that a more specific situation will arise whereby a major game developer will utilize price discrimination against a protected class, largely because I believe that they're mainly focused on consumer tracking data regarding purchase history and spending habits instead of true civil rights discrimination. Essentially, modern capitalism is a very callous field of consumer manipulation that has largely maintained legal absolution by keeping their scummy practices to data-mining along consumerism lines instead of civil lines. No civil liberties have been violated, and no civil rights have been discriminated against (so far). So, unfortunately, these scummy business practices are fair game. I don't know if any consumer protection laws would be able to squash these practices, given the lack of legal precedence, but I'd certainly appreciate it if they did. Given how the topic in question involves a monopoly of a tax-dodging international game company, I doubt it contributes economically to US commerce and trade, and I doubt it has a positive impact on the income of artists and programmers (paid for their work, not based on the company's profit margins). Ultimately, it is just another money-making business model that nobody likes, such as the Matrix Scheme of season passes: buy this "access pass" with our game, eventually we'll give you something else down the line! (followed by three cosmetic DLCs not worth the extra $40 tacked-on price).

[@TARINunit9]

I'm not even convinced it IS legal. It runs afoul of the principle of Illegal Price Discrimination (you cannot charge customers more if they do not make the service they order more costly). For reference, this is why restaurants charge parties of 6 or more, more money in their bill; it actually DOES cost the restaurant more money to seat and serve big groups. SciRev, by contrast, is offering to charge two otherwise identical customers different prices simply because one has more money in his bank account

[@willteach7753]

+TRAINunit9 The more important factor is price elasticity of demand, since discriminatory monopolies require a difference in price elasticity of demand between consumers or different markets. You can calculate it as the percent difference in quantity of demand divided by the percent difference in price. However, this only applies to demand that is elastic. A change in demand is based on quantity and price, but since these are digital goods that have an infinite quantity (i.e. it never runs out of supply), the change in price has no effect on the change in quantity, so the price elasticity of demand is zero, also known as perfectly inelastic. Because this service is perfectly inelastic, it is actually easier to legally practice price discrimination because the monopoly does not have to worry about price elasticity of demand. However, all of this could be upturned if the service/product being sold under price discrimination was capable of being resold by the customer to other consumers. In this case, there are digital barriers to keep customers from making arbitrage profits by selling among themselves (you cannot resell DLC, etc.).

[@willteach7753]

+TARINunit9 Another thing to note for discriminatory monopolies is that the charging of different prices is not associated to the cost to provide the product or service. It is entirely legal to charge different prices for what amounts to the same product without any differences in cost to produce, since the restrictions are largely focused on consumer demand, as well as re-sale issues. Also, while it sounds entirely scummy to segregate customers based on wealth, and it is scummy, it is also legal. There is no civil rights law or consumer protection law that protects people on the basis of financial class.

[@onedeadsaint]

18:29 love this game that you invented Jim!

[@lpnlizard2742]

Someone remix those sounds into an EDM track please. I need this.

[@calathi7903]

Now we just need a mod where we kill him again and again and again and again and again...

[@Mr.Spongecake]

Apparently the merchant has a very complex vocabulary consisting of "Blehh" "Bahh" "Wiihh" "Beeh" and "Blahh"

[@elementalcobalt1]

"love this game that you invented Jim!" EA: People love doing that? Now for purchase: Merchant Sound DLC $4.99 It's fine. It's cosmetic.

[@AtlasPower990]

It'll have microtranactions in it sooner or later as well with Dynamic pricing calculated based on a person's Taxes.

[@goodzillo]

That neogaf quip. Yowch.

[@colinkelly5420]

whats the context? I out of the loop on this one.

[@thetrustysidekick3013]

Moderators resigned, whole threads of people asking for permabans, it was a chaotic mess and finally the site just went offline.

[@arturoreyes2119]

The entire "Let's all fuck with the orc merchant" part made me laugh so hard I woke up the entire house. I hope you're proud of youself, Jim

[@aluminumfalcon1506]

I think this is part of the reason the switch is so popular. I wouldn't touch any mobile games now, but I have no problem paying full price for games on the move that aren't wallet extraction units.

[@Changetheling]

"Wallet Extraction Units" (WEU). I like that.

[@ChouetteTV]

The Wii U console really isn't that bad, except for Super Mario Odyssey all the top selling Switch titles are already excisting Wii U games wich u can buy for the Wii U for 20,- as were the exact same games cost 50-60.- bucks on the Switch. People often complain about how limited the amount of games for the Wii U are but these games actualy carry solid quality in contrast to the Wii games. Nintendo tried going back to their roots, putting effort and love into their games and they were punished for it. For some mysterious reason Switch sales have already surpassed the Wii U profits by a multitude even tough at this point hardly anything significant has changed. And then there is the 'but we have more thin air in development then ever' excuse, the same bullshit excuse Activision and other triple A companies spew in your face constantly. I'm just not buying it anymore in both the literal and figurative sense of the words. I strongly believe it's the former Wii console generation that strongly exploited the Nintendo brand reputation, that made significant amounts of short term money for Nintendo that caused the later downfall of the Wii U (altough the commercials were hideous aswel ofcourse). If you compare the Gamecube hardware (wich was in the grand line superrior) to the Wii hardware. The only real significant difference between the Wii U hardware and Switch hardware being the NVIDIA chip wich basicly enables steam games to be played on the switch (whoopdiedoo!). And ofcourse, hardware does not define how enjoyable a game can be, but I think we can all agree the Wii console game quality, talking about the conceptual content of the Wii games, was far below Nintendo quality standards. On top of that there is little the Switch can do the Wii U can't do, unless you value the option of playing steam games on a console. And ofcourse there are nuances, but those hardly add up to justify the end result. For the first time in my life I can play all the Zelda games on a single console, the HD (hardcopy) versions I could order for 20,- each and the older console Zelda games at discount during a Zelda anniversary, I'm basicly set for life. Knowing I'm being pressured into buying an expensive console that adds gameboy function and steam games just so I can play games that could've pretty much effortlessly been released on Wii U aswel just doesn't sit well with me. I'll gladly just wait this one out until Nintendo releases a real console again and then perhaps I'll pick up some 'Switch titles' at discount aswel by that time. I consider myself a lifetime Nintendo fanboy, I have collected all the Nintendo consoles, except for the abomination they call the 'Wii' and I don't plan on buying the Switch either for similair reasons, altough I do consider the Switch a somewhat lesser evil for the The Super Mario Odyssey game alone already, wich could've been released for the Wii U aswel. And don't get me wrong, I do hope a billion more dimwits buy the Switch and get to experience the Wii U experience, for all I care it's what they deserve. And perhaps this wil enable quality content once again in the future. There is simply too much of a demand to get fucked over on the market, that's just how it is. If they had named the console the N256 instead of naming it Wii U, naming it after the abomination that is the Wii console, that alone would've made a world of difference.

[@TheStu9000]

and we all stupidly thought SkyNet was going to be a military AI

[@mikejett2733]

Dont 4 get about the jewish space lazors

[@harrykirkham220]

Every Monday is just getting jim one step closer to getting black listed by every single company on the planet

[@accelerator8558]

Who the actual fuck care? Companys should kneel to us the customers, we pay for their products, if we dont buy their products them they deservet it

[@harrykirkham220]

Accelerator Exactly

[@nutcrackit7396]

this is so true. I am constantly preaching this. gamers need to realize we have the power to basically dictate the market to make it what we want. there are enough of us that we can force laws to be enacted.

[@LyricalDJ]

Yes, but then we need more and better consumer education and protection. Especially the latter. Not everybody can be bothered to dive into the game.. er.. 'scene' as much as we do. Nor should they have to to ensure they're not.. er.. messed with.

[@lunahula]

Jim, Cassandra could prophecise events of the future, but her curse was not be be believed. So it may be more accurate than you think :P

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

I do believe that is exactly the point Jim is making.

[@I_am_PiT]

I think that was exactly the point there

[@sweetbrothanunci]

lunahula who's Cassandra!?

[@marksman12g]

+SBN en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

[@ramesses8887]

@SBN it's a Greek myth and now a metaphor - Apollo provided Cassandra with the gift of prophecy, but when she refused Apollo's romantic advances, he placed a curse ensuring that nobody would believe her warnings.

[@8bitflea]

DLC was the beginning of the end for gaming, everything went down hill after DLC was introduced, now corporations took over with their greed.

[@casketbase7750]

You should rename “The Jimquisition” to “Why Another Market Crash Needs to Happen, Reason Number [EPISODE NUMBER HERE].”

[@opticalecho119]

"Why Someone Should No Russian The EA Corporate Offices To Send A Message Reason #:"

[@Iqbalx1]

Jack Casey except if a crash happens Mobile gaming will just take over

[@sweetbrothanunci]

I wonder if Nintendo will save the industry again or Rorschach it this time

[@adex1236]

Connor Reynolds jesus chrirst i dont like micro transication but shoot up a ofice over them the fucks wrong with you kid

[@ikarean5124]

I don't think nintendo has it in them, at least right now, to save the Industry that they are only remotely associated with at this point. Sure, Nintendo makes games, but the Nintendo sphere of Influence is their own systems, a microcosm that behaves and feels very different than the rest of the industry, with it's own pitfalls and highlights. If a crash happens (Which I doubt), Nintendo will either be unaffected or crash at a different point in time due to how hermetic their business is.

[@Craul08]

Hes just gonna read that pinned comment out on Commentocracy now lol.

[@RadiationReactor]

Crazy Zaul I hope so. Could make a season out of it. Lol

[@Satsujinki1973]

He fucking better

[@ZrinNZ]

Oh god I hope so. That whole comment could be a mini-quisition I feel

[@Saber0003]

The sad thing is he's right. Majority of players don't mind microtransactions. Look at Shadow of War's numbers. Unfortunately those of us who recognize these tactics as bullshit are in the minority.

[@petarded8529]

Crazy Zaul God, I hope so.

[@theprophetofthepastagod5633]

I’m waiting for Jim to read out the pinned comment on a future video it would be gold

[@xAngoryx]

That guy is the entire reason this bullshit exists

[@KerbosYT]

The cringe is strong on that one.

[@MidoriMushrooms]

honestly it looks like you can't reply to that comment anymore and I was curious to know if that guy was a dev. I've met DEVELOPERS with that mentality, it's fucking disgusting.

[@DaWrecka]

Wait until Thursday my friend, and I suspect your prayers will be answered. And then you will thank God for Jim Fucking Sterling Son.

[@ShapeshifterOS]

I think it's hilarious that he pinned it.

[@themetalone7739]

Remember back in the PS2 (and before) days, when gaming was so simple and convenient? We totally took that shit for granted...

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@Walther Penne Normies became the majority.

[@nataliemanahan5168]

PS2 was my last non-handheld console.

[@Fawful0]

Who watches Jimquisition at 3 AM? Rolls over, checks phone, sees new Jimquisition OH BOY 3 AM

[@JamesTheCelestial]

Full points for reference.

[@vrapbrap]

Not even close. Almost 6pm. Taking a looooong shit before going to work and watching Jimquisition in my throne room.

[@strubberyg7451]

3AM? Where do you live, Japan? According the US West Coast Time was merely 10AM when the video uploaded. Now it's almost 6PM where I live...

[@ZombieATAT]

Fawful0 I watched it at 3pm. Are you sleep posting? You defeated your own nonsense otherwise.

[@andregon4366]

3AM? But it's 4 PM. Wtf are you on?

[@powerovercorrupt]

Dat NeoGAF reference tho!

[@TheAbram099]

powerovercorrupt yeah, I was wondering if he filmed this episode before the blackout. It was a nice joke when he corected himself :D

[@IgnisPhoenix]

As a guy that runs a "free to play" game, Jim is correct. People that spend massive amounts do not continue the trend long term. It's often an impulse buy from people that can hardly afford it. I try not to focus on them. Sure it's nice when a guy comes in and spends 500 in a month, but you can't count on it long term running an online game with repeated costs. You're better off with small amounts from a larger number of players (As Jim's Patreon proves).

[@gokuxsephiroth4505]

Nice to know there's some like you out there

[@ThePhantazmya]

First step in AI taking over the world. No war needed. Humanity will be sold out by profit seeking corporations.

[@homeslicehomeslice]

Sooo loot boxes arent gambling because your using real life money to buy fake money and using that to gamble. So why cant a 12 year old to go vegas and use real life money to buy chips and sit at the craps table?

[@jeffkrenitsky5110]

Bat cup this is very late, but i think part of the rationale is that you can't cash out for real money (where the 12 year old in vegas presumably thinks that they can win cash if the casino let them buy chips). Some of the times this isnt the case and you can get cash for the in-game items, but its not the company selling you the items that is giving you cash for them. P.S. I'm not saying that is not fucked up (or even that its not gambling). I just wanted to note where someone might make the distinction, and why the issue might be a little tricky from a technical standpoint to define it as gambling in legal terms (coming from lay opinion from someone who is explictly not a lawyer)

[@Dotalol123]

@@jeffkrenitsky5110 Well its pretty grayed area, since you said yourself that you can cash out, its gray because you can sell ingame items for cash, but cash is stuck on your ingame app, like Blizzard account and Steam wallet while its true that you cant use that money in real life, you can only use it to buy items from the game client for what represents real money. Still by tehnical definition gambling is: 1.the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. 2.the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly: Opening lootboxes still gives you that gamblers high and adrenalin rush when you hope to get something good. You can get hooked on that like in any other gambling form.

[@fieldy409]

@@jeffkrenitsky5110 If this is true, why isnt there a casino that pays people in goods or vouchers to dodge all the regulations against gambling?

[@Mrnatox]

It's more closer to a 12yo buying a lottery ticket than a going into a casino. You buy a product and hope for a prize, while the other is active betting on outcome. The Wilson-lootbox is Still f**** up*** in either case tho

[@MrTheVadimpje]

@@Dotalol123 You can use your wallet money to buy some stuff on steam and trade them for real money i have done it so many times i buy something after that i trade it the buyer sends the money to my paypal.

[@IGVGameplayreviews]

Hit the lever!

[@LUNCHMONEY4numbers]

IGV IOS and Android Gameplay Trailers The lever being the game industry's dick

[@Eclecticsignal]

@THePunisher Xxx What a flacid penis

[@MaddieRaeGun]

RIP Silent Hills. We will never forget.

[@elasolezito]

WRONG LEVEEEER !!!

[@themilitantatheist9243]

+Johan Dale Why do they even _have_ that lever, anyway?

[@WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot_YT]

Games don't make enough money anymore? I never asked for SWBF2 to be the second highest budgeted game in history. If they can't make their game financially solvent then that is their problem. I'm not here to pick up the fucking tab because of their shit budgetary management.

[@tj12711]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot EXACTLY!!!

[@TheKiroshi]

Its the exact same issue all entitled rich people have. They think they're struggling to make ends meet.. Because they overspent on luxurious events or items.. Believing that money spent. Is money earned.. Downsizing is rarely considered at the effective level with companies like this. And all it does is make them alienated to their livelihood and product.

[@jan050375]

that is exactly it, for example terraria is probably THE game i had the most fun with ever, it's just a "small" indie game, with pixelated graphics and a tiny budget compared to AAA games which can barely entertain me for 12 hours. but hey, gotta make games as expensive as possible, gotta market our games with an expensive car on the E3 stage or popular figures that most gamers don't even care about, nor know about, gotta get the 10th remake of a map everybody has already played to death, gotta have those cut scenes that add absolutely nothing to gameplay, and don't forget to make a new engine for every new release.

[@thetrustysidekick3013]

You know how people get when the graphics aren't "pretty enough to make your eyes bleed". What a superficial gaming culture we have. Now excuse me while I play Dwarf Fortress.

[@DanPeters182]

If I knew you in real life I'd buy you a drink!

[@nobrainfluid]

God that Scientific Revenue is some Skynet shit.

[@army6669990101]

Machine learning + plus cloud computing is one hell of a ride.

[@Recycled]

I am disturbed by this trend. Gambling is _not_ legal everywhere. The reasons for outlawing it vary from place to place, but there _is_ always a great benefit to banning it - problem gamblers (addicts) will _not_ be tempted to play. Given the knowledge that "whales" exist, *isn't it UNETHICAL to **_provide_** this gateway for addiction?*

[@pedrogomezid]

haha, ethics, don't say that in front of capitalism defenders, they shriek at the mention of morals.

[@goa141no6]

Pedro Gomez Capitalism defender go for fair rules for everybody and if a service or product harms the people take it out also what happening here is corporativism, you don't need to be against capitalism to despise corporatism, actually most of the Pro-capitalism are against it.

[@ArrowValley]

I remember a time when you paid full price for a game and got a full game in return.

[@JimSterling]

When John Riccitiello was CEO of EA, he said almost that exact thing, but was presenting it to the audience as a *bad* thing.

[@supervegito2277]

wtf why?

[@Darkwolfpocco]

Rembert when an expansion was an actual large addon. Like Oblivion shivering Isles?

[@pjbrown4736]

Arrow Valley yep

[@accelerator8558]

The good old times

[@SLKibara]

"Turning Players into Players" The AAA industry in a nutshell

[@uniquehandleohsocool]

CHRIPLE AYYY

[@kyotheman69]

why fuck triple A and stick to indie games, 2017 only been on game that interest me and it was "niche" game, fuck rest any game has microtransaction i will not touch don't care if game is fun, I'm not supporting this shit

[@ruikirisame1744]

candy crush in a nutshell

[@Destroyer2150]

Nah... the literal AAA industry

[@ceriani1234]

In The Mind of Kibara me get want to re read your comment m8

[@davecarsley8773]

To me, this brings back the old _"are video games art?"_ argument. As an avid gamer, I've long defended them fervently as such. Now though, I'm not so sure. Once games went from a piece of a developers soul programmed into a computer to an incessant shotgun blast of _"enter your credit card number for this gun; this shirt; this paint job; these boots; this chest; these orcs; etc etc etc ad nauseum"_ , I just can't see them as art anymore. Now they're just... Products- like shoes or car accessories.

[@rougheredge6705]

But movies are accepted as art and they have the same problem. Art can itself be a product. Is this kind of a shit art? I wouldn't consider it so, certainly not GOOD art. But games can be either art or product.

[@literallyartemis]

The odd part being that car accessories can transform a car into art in the eyes of the owner but a shirt for $19.99 that gives you an XP boost cannot be defined as art by any means at all. It's rather sad that I used to truly love video games but as time has passed I find myself spending more money on my car than I do caring about the gaming market.. with the reason being that my car is more reliable than the game I'm playing so I feel compelled to improve it even further.

[@DragonNexus]

Games are art in the way movies are art. If you look at the latest Michael Bay Transformers movie as your example of whether movies are or are not art, then you're likely to conclude they're not. Likewise if your measure of whether a game is art is looking at Call of Duty or Battlefront or Shadow of War then you'll be similarly disappointed. But then there are games like Furi or Cuphead or Undertale or Stardew Valley or even Mario and suddenly the outcome isn't so clear.

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

I tend to see it as less black-and-white; Gaming is, in broad terms, a medium. Not everything created in a Medium is Art, and not every piece of Art created in a given Medium is *good* Art (however that might be defined; I believe it's uncontroversial to say that a piece of Art can be *bad* Art, or bad at being Art, while still technically being Art). Are Video Games Art? No. 'Video Games' is just a Medium, just like Oil On Canvas, or Feature Films. Can a specific game be Art? Yes, yes it can; we have many examples of individual games which are Art. We also have many examples of individual games which are poor quality Art, and many examples of individual games which are not Art at all. Merely putting oil-based paint on a canvas with brushes does not confer upon your result the quality of Being Art by default; likewise merely making a video game does not confer upon that game the quality of Being Art by default. Do I know what is necessary to make some Art as opposed to Not Art? No, I am certainly no expert on what makes a given thing Art. The simple fact that there are things that are, and things that are not Art within the same Medium, however, means that there must be *some* difference, and that difference is not necessarily a matter of Medium. I feel it is important to state explicitly that just because something isn't Art does not automatically mean it is not good, or fun, or enjoyable, or pleasant. Art has no monopoly on 'things people enjoy', after all.

[@bonebard6178]

its still art, just that type of modern art bullshit where a squiggle can sell for a billion bucks (although that analogy is probably better for mobile games so good shitty corporate games are just the decent shitty modern art)

[@HandmadeGoose97]

Machine learning? well LEARN THIS!!! I flipped off the screen, you didn't see it but it was totally badass

[@goa141no6]

Daniel Staples hope your screen survived

[@DC-hw7fw]

Revolution against... THE TV!!!

[@DC-hw7fw]

Terminator: the Gaming Industry

[@notknownlogic4161]

What a child lmao

[@ijakoan]

Games like Nier Automata, Nioh, Horizon Zero Dawn, Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice, Cuphead, Divinity Original Sin 2 and so on prove that when AAA publishers claim that disgusting business practices are necessary they are about as honest as Randy Pitchford.

[@MrPersona94]

ijakoan oh you mean the games that games media stops covering but wait look at all this cool new Shadow of War stuff, and wow Destiny 2. Let's talk about these games and gloss over microtransactions cause they're not in your face.

[@devilmikey00]

Not to mention we just had hellblade come out. A game that looks as good as any AAA release for the low low price of 30 bucks. By all accounts it's apparently been a great success. According to these jag offs that can't happen but somehow it just did.

[@Moonhowler89]

I`m thinking they are necessary for the publishers, but maybe one day soon, game developers will realize that the AAA publishers aren`t necessary anymore.

[@thetrustysidekick3013]

Leave them to their own plans. We'll just support devs who self-publish and put out good games. It'll be mostly PC games but the PC gaming industry never relied on AAA as much as consoles have.

[@wallywest4727]

Add The Witcher 3, one of the biggest and best games ever made yet not a MTX in sight and the payed Pass got you two huge Expansions with one feeling like a whole new game in itself, even without the Pass discount those Expansions were a fucking bargin on their own.

[@P1nkR]

Once the PSN store figures out I only buy games at 80% discount price, I will go on a buying streak to end all buying streaks.

[@s871-c1q]

This comment brilliantly shows how anti-consumer this crap is. Well done!

[@pedrogomezid]

spencer I mean to be fair this would be a case of a consumer being aware of the horrible program behind it and playing the corrupt system to their advantage.

[@jomahawk7488]

From now on, ANY person who attempts to defend MTs is getting this video shoved into their face. If you don't feel insulted by an algorithm that is literally programmed to turn you from "a player into a payer", then you are the ones getting targeted the hardest, and are ruining gaming for the rest of us

[@KitsyX]

Microtransactions are merely tools... They aren't necessarily good or bad. ... It's about how they are used. Of course, I don't like the direction many companies are headed in the area of microtransactions, but I don't have an issue with the concept of microtransactions in general... Though I would prefer bigger DLC/expansion packs... In terms of multiplayer games though, MTs can be pretty useful in keeping a scene going, keeping the servers running etc. While I dislike what these people are doing and thinking, microtransactions are just weapons that they are making use of... I dislike the philosophy of the KKK, but if they were to beat people with baseball bats, that doesn't inherently make baseball bats bad... That's probably a bad example... I'm a bit tired lol.

[@markwheeler4245]

Joma Hawk Well said mate! Absolutely breaks my heart seeing this current 💩

[@chrisevans236]

MTs are not always bad. It's just the last few years they have become exploited. Remember Little Big Planet? Microtransactions coming out of its eyes.

[@hazukichanx408]

+Joma Hawk - Not to mention that whole creepy-as-fuck company, "Scientific Revenue"... and their sales pitch that says, pretty much straight up, "Hire us, and we will electronically spy on your customers so you can exploit them even more deceptively, and with even less consent or even awareness on their part! We will datamine their personal information and bake it into your microtransaction software to exploit any addictive personality or other vulnerabilities your customers have! Because THAT is the sort of thing a business providing a product or service should consider a priority!" Well, here's hoping the GDPR hits them and every fucking company like them harder than a gut punch followed by a crotch kick followed by a roundhouse kick to the spine. Any asshole who thinks that is an acceptable way to "earn" a living, deserves to be naked and starving in the streets, being laughed at by respectable hobos who have actually contributed to society.

[@jaykay3811]

Corporations love goons, it is how they operate.

[@TheNefari]

For everyone who is wondering, what a Cassandra is: Cassandra is a seer / oracle, that warned the Trojans to not take Gifts from the Greeks. And we all know what happened to Troja

[@mehmeh1031]

Beware of Trojans they're complete smeg heads.

[@TheeLiteClub-]

One thing Jim forgets in the video is that, in the end, Cassandra was raped and killed by Ajax... I wish him well...TT

[@emprsnm9903]

@@TheeLiteClub- I'd hate to be raped by an abrasive cleaning agent, ouch. Thank you, I'll be here all night!

[@akaiyoru2681]

More precisely, she was cursed to be able to see the future, but also that nobody would believe her prohpecies

[@HO-bndk]

That was Laocoon who warned against Greeks bearing gifts, not Cassandra. Cassandra had tricked the god Apollo into giving her the gift of prophecy. He couldn't change it but got his revenge anyway by making it so that nobody would ever believe her prophecies.

[@UDJester]

The day microtransactions went too far was the day Solitaire introduced its monthly plan.

[@acidk44]

UltraDirectorJester damn really... Tht does take the cake

[@drywallthief4039]

It costs $5.00 extra for the satisfying card avalanche victory animation.

[@Spacefrisian]

Than they should first start with using the actuall Solitaire rules for the game itself....now Minesweeper micro transactions....

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

UltraDirectorJester "Stuck? Draw an extra card for just $1!"

[@jayjaydeth]

I don't know. Fable 3 wanting to charge me $0.99 to make my pantaloons black was really asinine.

[@fen7662]

It's funny how gaming debates change over the years. Remember when cheat codes in games like GTA San Andreas were called "too seductive to ignore and undermined the game." Now we have the "totally 100% optional" microtransactions all up in our shit.

[@Meocross]

How the times change, and these "Optional cheat passes" aren't even permanent. There is always a better "Cheat code".

[@TheSilence420i]

Suddenly I realized, the talk of the 'apocalyptic rherotic' made me recall some research I did on the 1929 wallstreet crash... You know when the entire economy crashed, because companies wanted to keep making money, so they over-produced goods people weren't buying anymore only to find that suddenly the actual value of their companies dropped when they didn't sell as much and their companies profits fell...

[@Jellycakelap]

Hey Jim - Love your show, great episode. I recently had a panic attack from an interaction with my meds - I thought I was going to die. I saw white light creeping in at the edges of my vision, and could hear a choir of angels calling me forth to a serene rest. And there, lo, I saw the face of that which is called I AM. The DEIURGE. That is to say, God. And there - in its glory, its unnameable and thoroughly terrifying presence...I managed to say one thing. Just one: "Jim Sterling says to tell you 'thanks'." TELL HIM HE'S WELCOME. And then, on my bathroom floor, I came to. Thought you should know. That, unlike these other so-called fans, I literally thanked God for you.

[@TheTwelfthCollector]

"Nothing stands between you and monetization." Nothing except... you know, good conscience and morals.

[@roadblock8095]

Ascended Life Form haha you idiot what the fuck are talking ab-

[@youhavenoprivacyandownnoth8289]

Some ppl dont have the patience to be good and moral.

[@Rotbeam99]

without flaming and throwing rude words around, i really do think that the mentality outlined from this companies own video is really underhanded and messed up. Services, whatever they are, should not be based around sucking as much money out of each specific individual as possible, they should be about charging the best possible price for the best possible product. If that means increasing flat prices for video games, and providing a better product as a result, i say good. Because you know what happens when you provide a good product? More people buy it, so that means the price can become more competitive in relation to the popularity and success of each product. So the price for a really good game that took a lot of money to make from a studio that is well renowned can go down if it is clear that they are making good games, and the market of people who are buying them increases. Even to a layman like me, it is clear that this is not complex economics. That is how selling products should be. Companies like this are most certainly putting money first, quality second, and i believe that Jim is correct in saying that the market for that kind of developer is not going to get bigger the more they try and capitalise on it, and that the saturation of these types of schemes in games will create a very real bubble that will inevitably burst.

[@patrickhickey4047]

Ok. Lesson time. In negotiations, each side has a best alternative to a negotiated agreement. In jargon, this is a BATNA. Proper negotiators set a price on their BATNA, and on any offers that are on the table. If an offer doesn't beat the BATNA it is to be rejected without question. Both parties have a BATNA, but the other side doesn't necessarily know it. The margin between the parties BATNAs is the "surplus." There is no objective way that a surplus ought be divided in a negotiation, and a big part of the art of negotiation is figuring out how much surplus there is, presuming there is any, and getting as much of it for yourself as possible. That was probably pretty opaque, so lets give an example. You want to buy a used car. You want to pay as little as possible, all things considered. You go to negotiate for the used car you've identified as most meeting your needs in terms of price, etc. You know that if you don't buy this car, you can probably buy a different car for $1500. The other car isn't as good, so you decide that you would be willing to pay up to $300 more for your preferred vehicle. Your ceiling is now $1800. You should reject any offer above that number. The seller wants to sell the car for as much as possible. He figures that if he can't sell it to you, then he can sell it to someone else for maybe $1400. But that might take a while and he'd like to get rid of it today if he can. He decides that getting rid of it today is worth losing $200. So his floor is now $1200. He should reject any offer below that number. The "surplus" is the money in the middle, which in this case is $600. You should, in theory, accept an offer of $1799. He should, in theory, accept an offer of $1201. But both of you want as good of an offer as you can get so you don't reveal this, and you go back and forth until a number is arrived upon. Maybe you're great at this and you get the car for $1300, which you see as a steal. Maybe he's pretty good at this and he talks you into $1600. Either way you both get a better deal than if the sale didn't happen, but there are meaningful differences in price. That's negotiation. Ok. Now how does negotiation work in a market with multiple actors? Well... its still there, but it happens automatically. The seller doesn't individually negotiate with anyone. He estimates what the pricing points are for his likely customers, and sets a price based on what he believes will optimize his total profit given what he believes his customers BATNA's to be. Maybe in this example we imagine that he has a thousand identical cars, and he estimates that he will get the most total profit if he sets his price at $1400. But if he does that he's leaving money on the table, in a certain sense. After all, all of his customers have different financial statuses, different preferences, and different levels of desire for his product. He's giving up all customers who would only pay $1399 or lower, for a start. And every customer who would have paid $1500 but only had to pay $1400 represents a loss of $100, from a certain perspective. So... a big part of business expertise is coming up with ways to get your hands on that money. Ideally you would charge everyone an individualized price based on their credit score and desire for your goods, but that won't work because if someone sees you sell for $1300 they're not going to want to pay $1500 for the same thing. So you have to come up with ways to get them to pay individualized pricing without it looking like you're doing it. In the business world, this is called "innovation." The desire to do this is what is behind the attack on net neutrality, for a start. And its behind these sorts of practices in video games. Its the reason we get multiple tiers of purchase prices with weird day one dlc or extras that supposedly justify the price differentials, coupled with endless hyping of the higher tiers- this captures some of the people who were more willing to pay higher amounts. On the other end of the stick its the reason we get Steam sales- to capture the people less willing to pay the sale price, but still willing to pay something. Its the reason we get games with subtly degraded quality of play for people who don't buy microtransactions- the games are made deliberately annoying in small ways in hopes that people who don't value the game enough to spend on microtransactions will still play, but those who value the game enough to spend more will do so. The important part is just this- in capitalism, setting equal prices for all customers means leaving hypothetical money on the table. But individualized prices enrage people. So the goal is to come up with ways to customize pricing while looking like you're not doing it.

[@KingBobbito]

I can't tell if you're saying it's good or bad to stealthily charge someone more money because you know you can.

[@desmondbrown5508]

"In the business world, this is called "innovation." " Yeah, I've known this for quite awhile. Innovation has always only meant them creating new ways to fuck the customer. But hey, it sounds good on paper to everyone else. That's the big problem with companies. They literally sabotage language to re-purpose it for their needs while hiding the true intent.

[@spacejunk2186]

It's not just capitalism. This is reality.

[@pedrogomezid]

you basically described why capitalism is a breeding ground for immoral scum.

[@patrickhickey4047]

Neither. I'm describing what makes businesses think and act the way they do. It is what it is. The only thing that will change business behavior is changing their incentive structure, either via customer refusal to cooperate, or regulation.

[@soogymoogi]

So any other bipolar people (or anyone with similar mental illnesses or disabilities) really skeeved out by this? I'm type 2 and medicated well enough that my hypomania isn't too bad, but the idea that algorithms could learn the typical cycling patterns of people like me is creepy and manipulative, moreso than the already skeevy manipulation of neurotypical or players with unipolar/major depression. It's even worse to think about potential future applications that might specifically target the mentally ill or developmentally disabled by looking at social media or other activities on phones for signs of mania, psychosis, or other signs of impulsivity and vulnerability. I think what scares me even more than that is I think deep brain stimulation and similar implant devices are the future... and, well, the idea that games could read the input/output of a device that manages my brain's own vulnerabilities and use it to sell me things is particularly dystopian. Anyways, to Jim and anyone else who studies this kind of AAA shitbaggery, keep an eye out. I might sound paranoid, but these publishers for sure aren't above manipulating the mentally ill.

[@emprsnm9903]

Me, and yeah this stuff is in the realm of draconian to me. Actually it's so disturbing I don't even know the word to describe it.

[@yanuarmustika5816]

Pinned comment: Randy Bitchford, is that you?

[@Roadk1ll21]

So micro transactions today are like walking into a bar after paying the cover charge. You go to the bar and order a drink. The wait time is 30min... Unless for pay $2.99 to "expedite" your order. Then you get your beer and it's half head. So you want to ask the waitress but she was outsourced to India. So then you want to order some wings (don't forget to expedite that order for $2.99) and you are informed you will get a random assortment of wings, some mild/hot/no flavor. You can spend an additional $8.99 to make another order to get a better chance of the wing flavour you want... Or you can spend $24.99 for the Hot Wings season pass to get at least 70% hot wings per order for 6 months. You can also spend another $4.99 to customize the bar stool you are sitting on, but the customization fades when you head to the bathroom... Unless you spend $12.99 for the Reserved Seating DLC.

[@zimbabweking]

Jesse Miller This is the most underrated comment in KZbin history. Bravo 👏.

[@saltyk9869]

This comment is sadly accurate.

[@amegamitenseifan7367]

Wow this is accurate as fuck. Reading this saddened me deeper because one of my favorite things to do is eat wings at a sports bar after a long day of blue collared work.

[@AlwaysANemesis]

And in that setting, there'll be a man sitting at the far corner stool, scarfing down about 20 plates of wings. It reminds me of my favorite analogy, where a doctor tells a patient they have a deadly brain tumor, and the patient just goes "Nah, I'll be fine as long as I ignore it! I don't have to spend money on that tumor; if I'm patient enough, it no longer becomes a problem!" I think you guys can notice what that's referencing there.

[@uniquehandleohsocool]

Life's good when you're turning players into payers

[@FV4030]

Sir Musty On prom night.

[@MechNubbins]

With a TV that looks like an apple.

[@FarnhamTheDrunk1]

SKELETON WARRIORS

[@timeomnivore]

I game developers/publishers were more like those of Grinding Gear Games (for free-to-play games) and CD Projekt Red (for $60, AAA games). GGG's business model for their free-to-play ARPG game _Path of Exile_ is entirely based around easier trading (still possible without), more stash tabs for hoarding more loot, and purely cosmetic items - all while creating and developing significant updates to the game consistently throughout each year, for free - and it is impossible to spend real money to get farther ahead in the game over other players. Then you have CDPR's business model, wherein they create a fun to play, interesting, well fleshed-out and well-developed game with mod support and a complete lack of microtransactions - aside from the equally well-developed story expansions, which feel like true expansions, not carved out pieces of the original game, and calling those expansions "microtransactions" does them a disservice. And then you have most of the other fucking idiots in the game development/publishing industry who insist on nickle and diming you for the most mundane shit imaginable, with a lot of their excuses being, "Well, everyone else in the [x] genre does it, so what's the problem?". I bought microtransactions in _Path of Exile_ (stash tabs and cosmetics) and I bought the expansions in _The Witcher 3_ . You know why? Because they were good fucking games in their own right and I felt comfortable enough with the amount of money I put in to begin with vs. the hours I enjoyed the game that I decided to put more money into those games so I could continue to enjoy them to an even greater extent. You know what games I don't enjoy? The ones that try and punish me and make me have an unenjoyable experience because I don't throw hundreds of dollars at a game that couldn't even get the basics right. I don't throw money at those types of games - I stop wasting my extremely valuable time playing them and go do something I actually _do_ enjoy.

[@CaptainJawZ]

I want to thank you for making these videos. You made me realize I have a terrible addiction to these loot crates systems and stuff because to me is not about getting "that one skin" for me is about getting EVERYTHING. To the point that I was paying about $150 on games like Overwatch every two months. I'm sickened with how much money I've spent over the years on cosmetic items. Money I could've spent on more responsible things or even like actual games instead of falling victim to the freemium. Now that my eyes are open I'll definitely look into getting some help with my addiction :X

[@atlasingent4863]

Danilo Reyes I wish you all the best.

[@rougheredge6705]

Bravo, good luck to you.

[@CaptainJawZ]

Thank you!

[@DragonNexus]

If this comment isn't an indication of just how disgusting the entire practise is I don't know what could be. All the best to you, dude! I hope you manage to shake off the addiction in time.

[@LucaExplo]

150 every 2 months? Damn... that's a lot of Witcher 3's.

[@BrickBuster2552]

THePunisher Xxx: _"I'm sure your sheep audience will rush to downvote me."_ Jim: _"Actually yes."_ **pin**

[@Berniebud]

Downvotes aren't even a thing on KZbin anymore

[@revstalker7334]

That comment has so many replies I can't even fucking comment on it. Shame, wanted to have fun.

[@rjc0234]

yeah, shame i cant comment. simple answer is "they used to be able to do it, with a much smaller audience, and much fierce competition"

[@Zadamanim]

No one seemed to mention that he accused Jim of not being part of the industry, but Jim has worked as a voice actor and as a consultant, hasn't he?

[@nathangracia1734]

Revenge Stalker I thought it was actually sarcastic

[@n.l.g.6401]

I'm so glad this came out when it did. I started tracking my mobile purchases two weeks ago, and I'm finally seeing the damage I'm doing to myself in real-time. I finally went F2P on one title, and was doing okay on the other until an in-game event coaxed me into whaling ($100 over the course of a week). So, lesson learned on that front: in-game events are fucking scams these days.

[@synth_pulse3098]

N. L. G. Mobile games in general are absolute trash. But I’m glad to see that you have seen it first hand.

[@sertaki]

I hope you are whale-free these days and I wish upon you a happy sardine existence!

[@desther7975]

I felt bad just giving Blizzard extra money for some of their non-combat pets. I just wasn't that aware of or jaded by the microtransaction business yet at that point, nor of course by *Activision*-Blizzard themselves. Theirs has been a a very sad downfall to witness.

[@sertaki]

+Ivan Karamazov, at least WoW pets don't come in lootboxes ... yet. This kind of microtransaction I can get behind. You even pay them with money instead of with fairy sparkle diamonds you first have to buy with money. (Screw you, Bioware points)

[@pretary1845]

Been there before. Ended up spending $50 on an 'alright' mobile MMORPG that I played for a good few weeks. Actually went to my bank later that week to go for something completely unrelated, and my teller actually printed off a list of all my transactions.. It had a weird, very unrecognizable name with "google" somewhere in it. It looked fucking fishy, and it added up to the $50.. I didn't remember making 20 $2.99-$4.99 purchases over and over and over. When I looked at it on paper it was really strange. I legitimately thought someone stole my debit number and started taking small amounts so I wouldn't notice.. Mind you at this point I"m already done playing the game, I pretty much forgot about it.. So we start doing the chargeback process to try to get my money back. All goes good. Money will be back into account in 5-7 business days. I feel really good and relieved, get my new card, leave. Well I had my friend come with me to the bank that day, he just sat off to the side and listened.. After he left he says "Hey weren't those purchases from you spending on {GameIDon'tWantToPromote}?" Literally looked at him, it dawned on me, and we just started laughing and laughing about it.. Got my money back later that week. Taught me a huge lesson that day. Fortunately I didn't actually lose any money from it, and I think I remember reinstalling the game for a minute and I still had all my shit over a month later.. Very funny. Still feel mildly bad about it, but honestly who could care less??

[@felisasininus1784]

From 2008 to 2010, smart phone gaming was pretty decent, from Plants Vs Zombies to decent AAA mobile ports that only required one-off payment up front and of course Doodle Jump. That was indeed a life-time ago now.

[@Fox_RZK]

Dynamic pricing. What they want you to think: They're making microtransactions cheaper for people who can't afford them. What's actually happening: They're making microtransactions more expensive for people who can afford them.

[@DragonNexus]

What is actually happening: They're making microtransactions affordable to everyone. Now you have no excuse.

[@KingBobbito]

$100 is affordable to some people, should they pay that for a new skin?

[@Fox_RZK]

Does that mean I can sell you a 1 dollar bill for 2 dollars because you can afford it?

[@AncelDeLambert]

And therein lies the moral issue

[@LukeZaz]

Who says you have to be able to afford it? Thanks to the wonders of Dynamic Pricing, all players can enjoy the privilege of being tricked into buying loot [container of choice]s until they are destitute and starving.

[@grayfox8904]

Triple Paid Games

[@BlueWoWTaylan]

Nice pun there..but even triple probably won't be enough for these companies. They need INFINITE

[@lambdachi107-gamingandmusi2]

First payment is the game itself, second payment is all the DLC, and third payment is the microtransactions.

[@Recesaron]

I prefer calling it polyfeeism.

[@shmooti]

Keep shining that spotlight on those insect nests. Few else do.

[@ECL28E]

"Turning players into payers" Nope! I'm out!

[@QuantumJG90]

I stopped playing mobile games in 2012. They went from a harmless, cheap experience, to just utter crud that milks you for pennies. If I'm out, and want to play a video game. I bring my 3DS. Nintendo still seems to adopt the good old policies.

[@KingHarambe_RIP]

I really like the idea of using two intro themes depending on the type of Jim we're getting that week. Stress ---> Jim Sterling Born Depressed --> Jim Fucking Sterling Son!

[@GoodVolition]

"Players into Players" Faith_In_Humanity.exe has encountered an unexpected runtime error.

[@carlocousins9714]

Cameron Goode Do you mean "into payers"?

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

Cameron Goode Excellent typo is excellent.

[@LowStuff]

Want to lower the cost of game-creation? Stop feature-creep, stop bloating games, stop wasting equal or more on advertising than the actual production-costs, aim for certain audiences, do what your studio is good and proficient at. A studio that is almost entirely focued on MP shouldn't do SP games etc.

[@DaybreakPT]

I suspect the opposite is more common for the latter tbh. Singleplayer game devs mainly having to shift gears into the multiplayer game craze as of late.

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

I also wouldnt mind pay more than 60€ for a game, if I had the feeling it was worth it. But for a product to sell at a higher price, you would actually have to put in effort to amke it a good game. Making a shitty game and cramming in loot boxes is way easier and you run less a risk of not selling enough copies due to bad reviews. The big publishers have become cowardly and complacent. They do not inovate, but rather paddle the same bs over and over and savely make a profit.

[@infinitesimotel]

Lowering profit is the very antithesis of what they are about. As long as they can scam people into paying for shit they think they like then no one loses.

[@contramachina354]

This comment easily shoots holes through that apologist rant by THePunisher Xxx

[@jeffvella9765]

THePunisher Xxx is a moron. Games are actually much cheaper to make then it used to.(better/cheaper game engines) The problem lies mostly in advertising and greed. The publishes are too greedy. The gaming industry is seen by them as a way to sell their online casino to minors. yes it is lucrative but also immoral and they don't care. So a company that makes a successful 3 year development game and makes good profits has to watch in astonishment at how EA makes 10 times their profit in a single year by producing shit/no effort content. So it is quite obvious what is happening, every publisher is jumping on the bandwagon. It has nothing to do with games being expensive at all, in fact none of those companies wants to show their books to prove how expensive it is.

[@EionBlue]

Jim: "I can already see the posts on Neogaf and Reddit now... I mean, I can already see the posts on Reddit now!" Me: **slow clap**

[@BigLord]

Viredae chuckled at that one too. Subtle!

[@IndygoEEI]

Funny thing is NeoGaf is up again at the moment of this posting (!0:20 PM EST).

[@LockeRobsta]

The fuck is Neogaf?

[@digivagrant]

A pedophile den.

[@2DRonaldo]

SJW's tend to blow the whistle on pedo dens, that's why they fight for Social JUSTICE. Clue is in the label. Tends to be the perpetrators and apologists that get a chubby for the SJW's spoiling the fun for crooks. Don't hate the players, hate the game. ;)

[@AbbreviatedReviews]

You have to know that if this definitively existed in a PC game, within days someone would create some sort of application to run in the background to ensure you get the minimum pricing and have it 'sold' to you as infrequently as possible.

[@josephgarfield3363]

Endyo ahh, £0.01 for 100 lootboxes. That would be nice.

[@viciouswaffle]

Don't forget EA background bitcoin mining, we are used to their games running 100 % CPU anyways!

[@vaultrant2499]

Endyo dont try and sugarcoat it They'd just fuckin make a crack of the game

[@Xsior]

That too. Isn't PC gaming beautiful?

[@drakan4769]

and that price would be 0 the price of the game itself would also be 0 oh wait we already do that

[@ClemmyGames]

Kind of why mobile gaming went down the toilet. The free-to-play price point expectation combined with the microtransactions hook does make quite a large number of these systems predatory. This may lead to "core gamers" seeking their fun elsewhere and a refocused targeting of the general population who may not know better. Shame really but the app store/play store is a nightmare

[@k.nielsen5589]

This video just got you a sub :) Explains so much what is wrong with the gaming industry. Indie games are the future for now.. i hope they find the revenue they need, to stay around.

[@DJGots]

Stay around and not get sucked up by the Triple Pay publishers

[@MateusAntonioBittencourt]

Imagine this Dynamic Pricing base on people's data for other things in our lives. Imagine your mother calls you saying your dad's health took a turn for the worst and he doesn't have much time... You rush to the airport, and them the cashier (I don't know how you call the people selling plane tickets) tells you it's 5000 dollars. But for the person in front of you... going in the same plane... the ticket was 200 dollars. You ask why and she says "Well... our system calculates the price of the ticked based on each individual willingness to pay that price... since you must really need to get in this exact plane... the price will be higher for you" That's absurd... so why are people defending this policy with videogames?

[@Meocross]

Pfft, money up the ass.

[@thunderpants5616]

please delete this comment. We don't need to give these corporations any ideas. I am dead serious, please delete this.

[@thepericlesof8449]

You think they haven't already thought of it?? Hehe

[@theguywhowentthere3346]

it's already being done, henceforth the 'earlier' you buy your plane ticket, the cost may be lower a bit, but the closer you buy it to the departure date of when YOU need it, expect to pay a bit more.

[@sonicfan12121]

TheGuy WhoWentThere But that's simple economics. Higher demand means higher pricing. Completely understandable(have a great day). The problem is abusing knowledge you obtain through wherever you are getting it from. That's like buying stocks on the stock market of a company you work inside of the executive branch, because of some positive event only a few people know of. It's not the fact that price goes up. It's the dirty and disgusting methods these companies try justifying to actually raise the price.

[@supercosmickuma7438]

Disappointing that orc merchant is oddly satisfying.

[@dylansmith5161]

Now imagine a pc mod that makes the store a physical space and you can go there to kill him and destroy the store or dominate him and make him give you free packs for life

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+Dylan Smith Its called Cheat Engine!

[@groundbreaker91]

Jim's reaction to disappointing the merchant was even better. He was having such a blast lol

[@Xetelian]

@THePunisher Xxx The Witcher 3 sold 10,000,000 copies, millions of the copies at $60 and plenty at $20 when it goes on Sale after the first 2 years. 10,000,000 x $20 is $200,000,000. Gamespots reports it cost them $81,000,000 to make. $119,000,000 before taxes and fees from Steam is more than enough to build another Witcher 3 and still give everyone a raise over an easy $10,000,000/250 dedicated staff employees about $40,000 per person. Dead space 2 is estimated to have cost $47,000,000 it sold 2,000,000 in the first 2 weeks and it was suggested that they sold in total 4,000,000 units, which at $20 a unit is $80,000,000, why bother doing the math of $60 x 2,000,000 when we can low ball it and still end up with almost twice the money spent, marketing may be extra so we'll just stick with the lower amount. That is more than enough money to make it again, even if it took time to realize the final 2,000,000. Also, this is on Origin, which EA owns, so a good portion of the total sales didn't cost anything extra to distribute. Games routinely go on sale for 19.99 after they've been out for a couple years, even COD which is notorious for not lowering its prices, goes on sale on steam for 50% off its full price. They are still making a profit even when the game goes 50% or 75% off. You need to put the idea of MILLIONS of copies into perspective. You can't tell me that not one of those millions bought the Gold edition or the Season Pass or the DLC outright. I just wanted to mention that movie studios are known for doing this really convoluted accounting that makes it look like a movie costing $20,000,000 that makes like $200,000,000 American box office made no profit. It seems like a scam because I'm not an accountant and don't understand where they're losing the difference or know enough about tax code to call making 10x the amount I invested a loss. I suspect that video game studios get away with this as well if they think selling 4,000,000 copies of a game isn't enough.

[@JesseEnclave]

^This^ And let's not forget that Dead Space 2 was a horror game. Action-oriented as it was, it was still marketed and sold as a horror game first and foremost, putting it in a very niche market where only a tiny fraction of the overall consumer base would go for it. And yet it still managed to sell 4 million copies. The modern Resident Evil games didn't sell that much more, despite being THE marquee franchise of the genre. EA clearly thought Dead Space 2 was successful, otherwise they wouldn't have stuck their dick into Dead Space 3. They didn't step in to try and save a floundering IP; they thought they had a cash cow and killed the damn thing trying to get all the milk at once.

[@killarun4288]

AAA games like from EA or Activision spend more money for marketing than actual development budget. So dead space considered not profitable is make sense. that's why every garbage game that coming out from them sold million regardless the quality.

[@CoDcomrade2]

I believe Super Bunnyhop's video based on the particular subject of game companies and how they manage their taxes might help give a bit of insight on how they're doing it, but I could be making a bit of a stretch to attempt making some sort of correlation between that and the topic at hand. If so then that's my fault for being sort of a dimwit and making an imaginary connection with one another.

[@thinnairr]

I've read that the reason they do it is to reduce how much they pay in royalties. Record labels have long engaged in it as well. One funny example was when Spinal Tap was told that their total merchandising income from 1984 to 2006 was $84. See "Hollywood Accounting Back In Court: How Has Spinal Tap Only Earned $81 In Merchandise Sales For Its Creators?" for more examples.

[@joeschmoe2843]

I liked that pinned comment. That guy would make a very good mark for a snake oil salesman.

[@TheManOfManyNames373]

Is "Turning Players Into Payers" the new "Here's a TV that looks like an apple."?

[@yetanothertubeuser]

Here's a TV turning players into an anime fan at prom night!

[@hickknight]

Life's good when you turn a player into a TV that looks like an apple on prom night.

[@BlackINKim]

Here's a Payer that looks like a Player.

[@XShadOBabeX]

You know I don’t think I was around for the origin of “here’s a tv that looks like an apple”. Can someone share the story/joke behind that one?

[@Vulgarth1]

Here's a player turning a TV that looks like an apple into an anime fan on payer night!

[@Workinprogressmaxi]

That's why I shop for flight tickets with a browser that I don't use in incognito mode. Lazy pc learning based on cookies is prevented.

[@totalvvar]

I'm starting to hit the point in my life where I don't want to buy new video games anymore. And I hate it. Nowadays I just play old games that I find in a bin somewhere on a massive sale

[@jirivegner3711]

Try GOG, it will change your life 😀

[@joaobatistaperinjunior953]

Pirate it, see if the devs are good, then buy it.

[@tretozo]

Enjoy while you can! Retrogaming is also walking in its own bubble.

[@AschKris]

Indie gaming is where it is at

[@slendy9600]

Same tho, im a gen z who struggled to learn to use DOSbox because i knew it wouldnt try to con me out of my cash

[@mattdamutt5681]

The more I read THePunisher Xxx's pinned quote, the less I'm sure whether it's serious or a joke. The arguments are so ranting, irrelevant , or wrong (the "game journalist" attack is all three), it feels like they intentionally wanted to make a Commentocracy worthy quote.

[@NickMC512]

MattdaMutt Dude, it’s Randy Pitchford.

[@Unf0rget]

For people defending the practice because games are too expensive to produce now I would like to make some statements that are mostly backed up by actual evidence. Dead space 3 failed. Dead space 1 and 2 did not. Why? Dead space 3 made itself far more expensive, far less attractive to the original audience by abandoning horror to go more action shooter assuming there was a bigger audience for that. They were wrong. Not enough people wanted it to cover the money they spent on it. Publishers and devs should be smart about how much they spend on games. I dont think dead space 3 would have sold much better without the microtransactions. We people who shun them are still a minority. If they kept the budget smaller instead of jizzing out elaborate cinematics and set pieces, as well as keeping it horror, I expect it would have been successful. Destiny 1, the most expensive game ever that sold only a small fraction of what it developed at launch, made its entire budget back in one day of just $60 game sales. If it actually delivered what was promised then it would have done even better. The cost of development can be covered by the potential consumers of a market and bungie/activision did that precisely because they knew bungies next game would have huge interest. They still made it a safe bet by pizza slicing the game and even then it was successful. Freemium goods are over priced garbage even before they start to affect gameplay. Every company on the sun is trying to tell me a single costume is worth anywhere between 5-30 dollars in an age where I can get full quality games for that price? I work as an illustrator, when you're pedaling a product that has a one time cost to design and can then be distributed infitintely at no additional cost you mark the price down to tempt more people to buy it. Instead the price stays abussively high, justified flimsily by how its extra, its optional, its over priced so you can support the ailing devs. No. This narrative is false. The prices stay high because no company wants to unsettle the idea from peoples brains that these digital goods are worth this much cash. They dont stay high because few people want to buy them. Few people buy them because the prices are high. 35 million people bought overwatch because it was a good deal. Only a small fraction of those people buy loot crates regularly. I suggest thats because very few people stay hyped long enough to want to spend an entire games price on roughly 3 good costumes worth of crates. 2 of which are random. Those 3 costumes did not take more time to design than a game with numerous maps and playable characters yet they cost far, far more. Blizzard made enough money off of selling the game to keep those servers alive for years while pumping out new stuff and still rolling in cash. There is no argument for the heavy premium on their freemium. Sell the goods at a tempting price with less bullshit. In an age where souls games and witcher 3 turn great profit off of $60 price tag and $15-20 dlc, expensive games that dont insist on pushing the limits of visual fidelity, I really hold no sympathy for these idiotic publishers who insist on spending more than is reasonable to make games where they shouldn't expect that many sales. I hold no faith in their constant mantra that heavily over priced loot crates are necessary. Its time that mid tier budgets be embraced again and if microtransactions want to stick around they better be consumer friendly and priced appropriately. If a single armor took a week or two for one dev to make after a concept artist farted it out over a couple dozen hours in a game where there's millions of potentially interested customers you can sell that shit for 50c. Anything more is shaking consumers down for their cash. If devs really need donations to stay afloat they can open a bloody patreon while they make something worth buying. If the publisher is afraid that not enough people will buy it then they can put their less popular item into a bundle with other items, sell them collectively cheaper, and get more peoples interest. Almost like dlc. Which is why they dont. A lot of AAA games these days dont stay popular long enough to get dlc. Why? Because they're just not good enough. Hardline sure wasnt dark souls 3 or witcher 3 or horizon zero dawn. A lot of modern releases will retain a few players but most just dip so far within the first month that producing expansion type content is unattractive with so few potential buyers still paying attention. So whats a publisher to do to make more cash off of their original original investment (instead of investing safely and not throwing the bank at a new ip)? Season passes and day 1 dlc. Also microtransactions. Have as many things as possible for hyped people to buy day 1 or even before the game comes out to maximize profit. So, if a publisher doesnt have faith that its game will make enough they frontload options to minimize loses by exploiting dunces willing to splurge on something marketing has sold them on. Publishers do this instead of being consumer friendly because it makes reliable money. If the game succeeds they have a marketplace to peddle more price-inflated shit and if it fails they've extorted cash from the faithful and minimized loses. Publishers want big and flashy to catch peoples attention and have convinced themselves thats the only way. So dont defend them. These tactics are a step in the wrong direction instead of addressing the problem inherent in spending more than they have reason to on every title. Halo? Spend the cash. Random new ip thats not that imaginative and hasnt been proven? Dont give it a huge fucking budget so that you dont need as many sales. But nope. Publishers want everything to sell as well as overwatch or cod or destiny. Reason has abandoned the big publishers.

[@Unf0rget]

Also, there is no evidence that shows how successful or unsuccessful a game selling less expensive microtransactions would be. This whole economy was based off of phone games which are already notoriously thieving and do get an unhealthy sum of money from a frighteningly small portion of their players in games that are far cheaper to make than these prices would make you think. Console and pcing gaming adopted the idea wholesale, didnt adjust it at all for their almost entirely willing-to-pay audience, and wants to make that same absurd rate of profit to investment. No company considering microtransactions is dropping the price because there are people willing to pay it and a few who will really splurge which is why these things are always made with nearly endless things to buy thanks to rng crates.

[@robm6726]

hope we can get this pinned would be a great counter point to the presently pinned comment. don't know if multiple comments can be pinned. also completly agree with OP

[@DychoTheSecond]

I agree with Dahn, this wall was worth the read and I plan on thinking back on this for future thoughts in this shit riddled world we are going through

[@BenTenpenny]

Did any of the AAA publishers claim that microtransactions have to be in Games to make them sustainable anyway? I always see this argument brought up by fans and press shills but never from actual big players in the industry. If 60$ aren't doing it for your overbudgeted piece of crap then go for the tiered approach. But make it fair and transparent. I would have no problem paying more for my video games but I want honesty and transparency in exchange for that.

[@blindbeholder9713]

Got through the first paragraph and a half. You get a like for what I was able to read.

[@Snubben123143]

When he is fit, speaks with a British accent and uploads a 22 minute video on a Monday. Thank god for Jim Sterling Son

[@LaBarata12]

Do you know what a prostate is?

[@thefruityking6722]

Philip Kvist Ahem, Jim *Fucking* Sterling Son.

[@Snubben123143]

TheFruityKing Amen sister!

[@ckbooks]

Life's good when you're turning players into payers like a TV that looks like an apple on prom night.

[@Ali-fs7ze]

I love how people like the guy Jim pinned think they're helping the game industry, like these practices are fine and should be accepted if games are to grow. But these practices are us devs' worst nightmare. I and 5 of my colleagues got fired literally 3 days ago from our junior positions, in an all junior team in a mobile game company, because they decided the mobile game they gave us 2 months to make, wouldn't make enough money to reach the investors' anticipations. Not that it wouldn't make back it's development costs, they were paying us jackshit, with 2 interns on the team, and only 2 months of development time. It just wouldn't make as much as they thought it would. That's who you're defending, assholes.

[@AndrewGostev]

Seems like soon we'll see a trophy/achievement in a game "Complete a microtransaction». And funny but I stopped playing mobile games for the same reason. Just got tired of constant attempts to sell me something game related or advertising something not game related...

[@thegamer9302]

Andrew Gostev yep

[@ConwayFreelanceDetective]

There's some great mobile developers. Disruptor Beam is pretty good, as is Tiny Rebel Games.

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

Andrew Gostev Platinum Trophy: Champion of the Ages! Spend $50 or more in the Champion Store.

[@nimblehealer199]

Richard Conway Except that Star Trek Timelines is pay to win, another example is Power Rangers Legacy Wars by nWay games, it too is pay to win

[@ArchmageOfAnarchy]

I've got a great defence against such skin crawling evil. I don't have any money to spend. I'm like... a guppy.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Dr Rainbows the Unicorn the term used by casinos is “minnow”, however true whales spend so much that even those referred to as minnows spend thousands. They are only small by comparison to those who spend hundreds of thousands.

[@PhantomAlucard]

They'd still gladly take what you've got, friend. They don't care if it's pennies or Benjamins, it's all worth taking for them. And with "dynamic pricing," they could tempt you with something reaaaaally cheap.

[@zachthompson1494]

Price discrimination means they will try to get you to spend the money you do have. If you have 0, you are of no value to them and they will likely attempt to remove you from the game, either outright or through making it very unenjoyable to play.

[@GingerbreadFetus]

This is an interesting conversation guys. But even if you have zero money they will find a way to make it off of you if they can. Sell your information, send you survey's and spam email, or just show you ads. They'll do anything.

[@PhantomAlucard]

Sad, but true. You just can't trust people like this. I'm increasingly cautious about any gaming purchases I make, especially in the AAA scene.

[@DillonTaylorVA]

Well I was going to go to sleep at 6:50am like I usually do but I guess I can spare 22 minutes and twelve seconds for Jim.

[@ColtonMiller6012]

DillonTaylorVA same