Two cardiologists debate fat, sugar & coconut oil

[@yveb9074]

Dr. Malhotra is going to be remembered favourably in the future ... more like him needed.

[@jojo-oi3hd]

no

[@misscorina]

Yes indeed

[@oregon32nursenurse43]

Very interesting to me. I remember when my Registered Nurse friend told me in 2012, cholesterol medication was a scam. She went on to tell me everything about statins and how people are dying from the medication side effects. Fast forward to 2022 and I’m glad I’m in the know. My hubbys cardiac doctor told him he will live longer than most men because he’s married to a registered Nurse. 🥳🥳🥳

[@akeleven]

Statins killed nephew 24 yrs old

[@saturdayschild376]

I would not want to take diet advise from a doctor who is sporting a bit of a spare tire over the skinny doctor who is telling me to eat fat. I think Dr. Kahn is blinded by the establishment and his personal bias of eating flesh regardless of how well intentioned.

[@mik777]

Anyone who says Canola oil is good and mentions “Government” approved diets as facts has to have his pockets lined by the medical industry

[@SteveHonakerII]

Not necessarily. The guy showed his bias when he mentioned the amount of water it takes to raise cattle, it's not like that water is dumped in a black hole. Cows piss, it evaporates or goes into the ground water and recycles just like the water you drink does and the thing about raping cattle I'm pretty sure is already illegal. He's defending the data based on his moral belief's and the data in the studies not being so awful as to be obviously fraudulent. As the studies pile up on the other side and the reviews of the bias in the epidemiological interpretations get more scrutiny expect him to some day switch to an lchf vegan diet which is still possible but something no one is really investigating. Why look for something new when your current belief 'seems' to be the winner already.

[@chrisvonhoenheim6498]

@@SteveHonakerII You're so full of shit.

[@jeremylong1323]

I'm a student in physiology, I think it's very disingenuous for general practitioners or cardiologists to make nutritional recommendations and tell us what to eat. At least in the sense of, "they know more about the subject then you do." Many practicing doctors in general medicine receive limited to no training in nutrition whatsoever. More then that, they don't even conduct studies to see how certain elements interact with our physiology, they just read the studies. Essentially they know nothing about nutrition that the average man doesn't know. In the case of cardiologists, that's especially true. They spend their whole life starring at lipid panels, which tells us absolutely nothing about our metabolic health. Canola oil, and any other polyunsaturated fats, are highly toxic to our bodies. Anyone who tells you to eat these foods are either ignorant of our physiological response to these oils, or are purposefully spreading misinformation. Glucose and saturated fat, which are actually pro-metabolic, have been taken out of our diets for the anti-metabolic polyunsaturated fats. Polyunsaturated fats promote estrogen dominance and block the metabolic system on multiple different levels. They block the secretion of thyroxine (T4) in the thyroid gland, they block the thyroid transport proteins, and they block the conversion of T4 into the active form T3 which takes place in the liver. To make matters worse, these fats accumulate in out adipose tissues. Quitting vegetable/seed oils (and other sources of unstable fats) is like quitting cigarettes. Due to their accumulation, it can takes years to fully recover from them. They have a half life of 3 years, assuming your liver is relatively healthy and can detox them. So in about half a decade of avoiding them you can finally be back on track.

[@mrblob5413]

Steve Honaker II you’re probably the biggest idiot I know. When we talk about water usage, we mean DRINKABLE water you ass wipe. When drinkable water evaporates, there is no guarantee that the water goes back into a lake, where we can access it.

[@rinohunter6190]

Totally agree, he’s a globalist!

[@downunderoz4029]

great to see two logical loving and caring human beings talk about one common goal - thanks for the entertaining debate - good work

[@cynthiasmith1457]

Khan is SO ARROGANT! OMG he got so blown away.

[@Trd2020]

My brother in law was in the hospital due to diabetes. We went to visit him and while there, Well they brought him lunch and the drink they brought him was a sprite! Goes to show you!

[@gamerzskillz7780]

Too much fruit is bad. Especially fruit juices. Eat your food dont drink it. I've been Eating fat for about 10 years. I dont eat rice or whole grains. I eat fish, eggs and chicken. Olive oil and coconut oil as my main fats. As well 2 avocados a day. Just forget simple carbs and sugars. Whole grains are ok if you're exercising.

[@jaelancaster5506]

How animals are raised has huge impact on our nutrition…..grass fed, pasture raised..nurtured and cared for humanely and lovingly

[@ickdon7999]

Carbs or fats aren’t the problem. The elephant in the room is called prosperity. Prosperity has made life way too easy for us. We have an abundance of food choices, and we can’t control ourselves. Instead of blaming fats or carbs, look in the mirror and blame yourself.

[@markburnham7512]

Kahn is not interested in a discussion. He believes he is right and that's the end of it.

[@YouTuber-ep5xx]

I know, but I thought he did a decent job of keeping his mouth shut and letting the other doc speak.

[@Meloniraelewis]

I don't think he believes he's right i think he knows he right and it would have been difficult for me to not sit there and be shaking my head no or rolling my eyes at some of the things Malhotra was saying lol....I think there are some things now known in science that we shouldn't be "debating" anymore, it seems ridiculous to watch fox or cnn present information about something like climate change and have a supposed "expert" for opposing sides I guess so they can appear unbiased?? idk but certainly this type of "debate" isn't helpful at all....this "diet debate" shouldn't be allowed anymore, it's different if someone wants to do a research study trying to disprove/prove some opposing theory but irresponsible to promote flawed science just to appear unbiased...

[@viktorpecs]

@@Meloniraelewis Malhotra is not against the planr-based diet and Joel Kahn agrees.

[@varnadorel]

Well, he is not

[@mushshrap6471]

Malhotra is not interested in a discussion. He believes he is right and that's the end of it.

[@B81Mack]

Dr Malhotra is truly one of the greatest.

[@harvindersinghubhi9063]

really - so is Joel Kahn

[@jojo-oi3hd]

no

[@alesis100]

@@jojo-oi3hd get a life a&&hole :-) trolling vegan prick.

[@snowbird6855]

Malhotra is honest and not beholden to industry. That's rare.

[@Sparkslinger]

"lets stop...killing animals." I agree. Let's stop killing human animals by feeding them so much grain, starch, and sugar.

[@EpochUnlocked]

Grass fed 100%

[@suzettecalleja3122]

Let's stop killing humans by not have Abortions 😢

[@laylamaria1457]

I'm Spanish, Mediterranean I guess and I can tell you our traditional diet includes lots of meat and saturated fat and lard is used to cook stews.

[@ronnie3440]

traditional mediterranean diets are low in saturated fats by definition.

[@dorsetboronia2570]

@Layla Maria yes, here here

[@gaylerafferty7411]

'Mediterranean' only refers to location. It's huge and virtually impossible to pinpoint one spot to where the diet started and also where it doesn't apply. Would you call a north African diet typically Mediterranean? Always thought the name was incorrect for the type of food stuffs and dietary plan they were advocating. As a Spaniard, what you traditionally eat is vastly different from, say Greek people. (I do love Spanish food..)

[@TB1M1]

But Spanish do not live lives compared to Japanese and Italians.

[@TB1M1]

@Cyril Wrong. Before 1980 they ate mostly rice and vegetables with some meat. They are almost the only nation on planet earth with low cholesterol levels. Dairy was not consumed in excess so the estrogen balance was negligible. Prostate cancer was non existant and breast cancer was 20% rate of USA. Coronary disease was extremely rare.

[@ClayMationNation]

The one red flag I put up with Dr. Kahn is in an interview he once said fat (meaning any and all fat) is worse than sugar. I don't know exactly how he phrased it but that was what I got out of it. Fat is not all one generalized macronutrient, there are SO many different types of fats, saturated fats, fatty acids, etc. Here he seems to state something I agree with however, plant based SFAs are healthier than Animal based SFAs. And I say this because animal saturated fats might just raise Lipoprotein a levels. AND they might also cause insulin resistance. It's an issue of Stearic vs Lauric vs Palmitic acids.

[@pepper419]

You do remember of course that you are an animal with an animal brain that is sixty percent fat and twenty percent cholesterol. You're insulting your own kind. 🙄😍We're made of the stuff.

[@protoword10]

I think, both cardiologist are right, but just under different circumstance! I had metabolic syndrome and light stroke, and I fellow diet more to Dr Aseem suggestions and it helped, it helped a lot...But if I am healthy individual or if I was smarter and more disciplined before, nothing could be wrong with Dr Joel’s diet. You have to have different approach to any particular issue, in my case having A1C 7,8 and getting dawn to 5.4 wouldn’t help me with Dr Joel advice, because moderate high carbs wouldn’t contribute my well being...Both young man are terrific and they made some of their conclusion on base of different studies witch they didn’t conduct! Wish them well both and thank you very much...

[@shalinigupta4766]

U summarized it all really wrll

[@harvindersinghubhi9063]

There are always outliers - so no surprise about your experience

[@alexsandraAPRN]

Canola oil and more whole grains????? Who are you??? This is crazy!!!!

[@dj-fe4ck]

No canola oil but yes whole grains. If you don't like grains, more potatoes or fruit

[@eg50000]

Noah I guess you didn’t get the message, LDL is not the enemy.

[@Leo29568]

Canola is monounsaturated just like olive oil and so it is better for heart health compared to other vegetable oils available for cooking. Most other vegetable oils are polyunsaturated and can form trans fat.

[@marcusgitterle4579]

Dr. Malhotra is The Man!

[@amteo7107]

seems funny Khan sat there telling us when looking at the guy he could himself do with losing a few kilos

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

lol thought the same

[@julesnfriends]

Yes - has to be said, that's visceral fat, not good.

[@debbietaylor20]

Lol 😆 that's what I thought

[@sherry_we73]

THANK YOU! I'm glad I wasn't the only one the notice that.

[@bb2021]

Hm, bit mean! But OK. Visceral fat is deep inside fat. He just has a few kilos of normal fat I would say.

[@jaynoelreyes8604]

I think I'll go with the cardiologist who's fit and trim instead of the one with the spare tire around his middle.

[@beckyclayton7504]

I noticed that, too.

[@B81Mack]

Kahn also has a double chin and an obsession with the "p" word. Degenerate.

[@someguy2135]

Sample size: 2. If you want a large enough sample size to judge BMI, go to the American Diabetes Association web site. The only dietary group in the USA with a healthy BMI is the vegan one.

[@madisonc2410]

@@someguy2135 Most vegans do not look healthy to me including this cardiologist. And who believes ANYTHING the American Diabetes Association says...no one with a brain!!!!!!! They keep pushing the vegan lifestyle because they want people eating vegetables, frutis and grains that are sprayed with RoundUp...no thanks!

[@someguy2135]

@@madisonc2410 More than 90% of the meat in the stores and restaurants are fed with the grains that you are trying to avoid. Eating lower on the food chain reduces pollutants. For example, sardines have less mercury than predator fish like tuna. Eating plants have less than that. Eating organic produce is much cheaper than grass fed beef.

[@yeunchou1084]

The most important aspects for being healthy is much more than diet, nor loosing weight. It depends on your overall life style. An over simplified healthy life style is having proper balanced diet without processed foods, pops, limited alcohol drinks, no smoking, sufficient proper exercises and rest, minimize stress, caring for others more than yourself, ...

[@2Thes22]

What we eat and how much we eat is not the only factor for good health but it is the most important factor that we can control.

[@shawshank6015]

Anythkng the government promotes im out.....

[@alexcashman443]

Holy shit I wish that discussion went on forever Aseem rocked it!

[@clintwhite3021]

Enjoy disease then lol!

[@dorsetboronia2570]

Yay for Aseem

[@bb2021]

Supporting US government / insurance company supported dietary recommendations makes me put my guard up immediately. Aseem has had the great courage to stand up (almost single handedly) to the UK medical / government world to share what the has learned from questioning the received 'wisdom'.

[@chucksdesk]

When someone tries to sell “the government recommends”, I immediately am suspicious and their credibility drops.

[@TrustNJesusChrist]

Exactly. I love the USA and what it stood for, but the government is corrupt on both sides and it has an agenda. The government is the last source I want telling me how to eat.

[@JD-gm1wq]

Yup, FDA and Big Pharma are one and the same....all about the money.

[@UchihaChikiru]

The problem is that the government is funded by the sugar industry AND dairy council. I noticed that Dr. Aseem failed to mention that little tid bit. I definitely hear the government push way more cheese and milk products in the diet then it does donuts and cake though so you just have to wonder how much of those dairy studies were bought and paid for? Point I’m making is that Dr. Kahn’s diet sounds waaaay less funded by any industry or government then Dr. Aseem’s.

[@Handleneeds3ormorecharacters84]

Dr. Khan "government, government, government"

[@kevinj12345]

Typical American

[@Darkmatter321]

I've been on Keto for about 6 months. Lost 10 very stubborn kilograms thay couldn't lose with excersize for years. But its not just about weight loss. I feel etter than i have felt in the past 20 years. EDIT Ive also normalized mu blood sugar. I had been pre-diabetic for years. Now my blood sugar is constant in mid 90s

[@yeunchou1084]

Be careful about over working your kidney function with too much fat and proteins.

[@saturdayschild376]

I've had basically the same results with keto/carnivore and in addition to dropping 74 pounds without loose skin I dropped 3 meds and haven't needed to see a doctor all year. I stopped having chest pains a month into the diet. No one is going to argue their way out of the results I am living. Keto on!

[@DarkoFitCoach]

@@yeunchou1084 healthy kidneys have zero issue with protein in VERY large amounts, say 350grams per day. let alone what measly mortals like you eat which is maybe 115 grams on a good day. pls get educated

[@gabriel65304]

@@DarkoFitCoach with 350 grams meat daily, you die fast 100%

[@DarkoFitCoach]

@@gabriel65304 no u didnt understand. I eat 350gr protein daily. That is way way more then 350gr meat daily. I eat about 1kg meat daily broski

[@charletteforteza2477]

You can tell Dr. Kahn comes off very defensive, almost self righteous, on his opinions. He stands with the government "accepted' diet model. In comparison, you can see how calm and self assured, but is not promoting himself. Also, which one looks more healthy? Who looks like they are taking better care of their health? Dr. Aseem makes so much sense.

[@Sophal27]

Dr Malhotra has more serious scientific studies on his side. Veganism is an ideology, it should not interfer with science.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

This doofus is recommending canola oil. He literally hasn’t read any of the literature whatsoever.

[@GuyFromTheSouth]

Even most doctors that recommend keto say canola oil is bad. Bad debate. Get a doctor that knows his stuff.

[@viktorpecs]

@@GuyFromTheSouth Dr Caldwell Esselstyn says "No oil!" He was a heart surgeon, he can help reverse heart disease with the whole foods plant-based diet.

[@viktorpecs]

@EsoKral It damages the endothelial cells. He is wrong about canola oil and everybody attacks him. Heart surgeons know a lot more about the heart than cardiologists. Listen to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn, he is the best.

[@ronnie3440]

@@viktorpecs show some scientific evidence after you say this kind of things.

[@viktorpecs]

@@ronnie3440 Dr Esselstyn will show you evidence, watch his videos.

[@marklittlewood2418]

I would also add that Malhotra mentioned rice more than once in relation to insulin resistance. Check your own blood glucose response to rice even white rice, you will be surprised. Also Walter Kempner treated T2 diabetes with his rice diet.

[@ziggylothbrook8644]

Veg oils? There are no veg in these ...there are plastic, hydrogenation......veg oil dude looks Bloated and sick

[@brendapeplow5365]

So it’s the processed sugar foods that we need to stay away from

[@bleach9tail]

It's best to stay away from carbohydrates. Once in awhile is ok. Our hunter-gather ancestors didn't eat high carb food every day, what they mostly ate was high-fat animal meat, and some berry, plants, nuts they were able to find.

[@cmvamerica9011]

What you believe, has more effect than what you think.

[@eddiehayes7925]

Which Dr looks the healthiest??? I'll keep my eggs and red meat and veg thanks, just cut out all the processed junk

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

That doesn't prove anything

[@freespirit3818]

Me too ❤ I am 62 and have eaten meat all my life. No meds needed as I avoid sugars and carbs. My weight is perfect. Light exercise and lift weights 3 times a week.

[@saimtanweer4145]

That doesn't prove anything ,Aseem is 17-18 yrs younger than kahn

[@ComeOnPeopleThink]

The more Kahn kept saving Harvard researchers said, the less credible he sounded..I'm with Aseem all the way...Kahn showed what he was about when he brought up the environment...

[@anonymousAJ]

Government guidelines are not an endorsement of your diet plan when those guidelines have led to an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer

[@SiegfriedEmme]

do your own research. dump the canola oil !!

[@yulloveyullove326]

This is how canola oil is produced. chriskresser.com/how-industrial-seed-oils-are-making-us-sick/ This vegan cardiologist ruins our health.

[@dakotacoggins6700]

@@yulloveyullove326 lol cause chrus kresser is so smart

[@asarcadyn2414]

Dr Kahn completely blows it at 22 minutes when he stops talking about health and changes the subject to the environment. He knew he’d lost the health argument.

[@pepper419]

In my opinion he lost it with the environment as well. Animals look after our soil so I wouldn't demonize them, I'd put them back where they belong, back on the land.

[@wilfredstewart3348]

The vegan people seem to be city types who imagine crops are not sprayed or watered. If they were in the area of crop production they would easily see that the spraying is enormous and irrigations are plentiful. My brother in law breathed a great sigh of relief when he sold his cropping farm and bought a hill country livestock farm as the chemical inputs were so much less.

[@orwhat24]

Mr. Tee Shirt undermined his science because it’s the result of his values, a preexisting bias, not related to the question of nutrients.

[@Meloniraelewis]

ummm if they BOTH agreed ZERO HUMANS NEED to eat animals to get all their required nutrients then how are his moral values not related to the question of nutrients? In order to be healthy(they both said it!!) we do NOT NEED ANY nutrients from animals, so they both agreed all people can be healthy consuming zero animal foods....plus how do you know that he was vegan before he knew the science? many learn the science then realize veganism is a must... Plus it's not any kind of a bias about how eating meat/animal products in a diet wayyyyy increases that diet's carbon footprint plus water wasting. there's no bias that's just knowing/learning simple measurements, it's easy to measure how much water/resources it took to grow a field of corn and compare that to how much water/resources it took to grow the food/corn/grain/grass to feed the cow plus all the other water/resources to raise the cow...these things are simple measurements and comparisons, not some kind of bias? it's one thing to just ignore the science or to just be unaware these things exist but to try to say some person can't know what the science says because of their values is confusing to me....There are others who know the science and who aren't vegan but who chose to not eat animal products because of health reasons. Even more importantly tho there are plenty of people who want to be vegan because of the cruelty to animals but because of people/media who spread lies these vegan wannabes think they can't be vegan because vegans aren't healthy or because of the false belief that humans require some kind of nutrients from animals that you can't get on a plant only based diet....it's one thing to understand no human needs any special nutrients only found in animals to be healthy and still be ok with consuming animal foods(similar to how there are still people today who smoke cigarettes even tho by now i think 99.9999999% of us know they cause cancer)....but it's totally wrong to tell ANYONE or believe that humans absolutely require some kind of mystery nutrient from animals in order to stay alive or be healthy.... people think they just only "know" unhealthy vegans because no one wants to believe the truth(that people actually can be healthy and never consume animal products), plus a "vegan" diet CAN be unhealthy because things like oreo cookies and coca cola are technically vegan, then there's the subset of vegans who do some strange things like only eating watermelon or only eating 900 calories a day because they don't realize how calorie dilute eating a whole foods plant based(aka clean vegan diet) is, like people have this mindset when they go on a diet that they HAVE to eat less, but if someone's going from a SAD to a wfpb diet they're probably going to need to eat more food than what they're used to. plus there aren't very many people who've actually been vegan for a long time because it's much easier to adopt a habit/diet/lifestyle if your community is all doing it, so people want to be vegan or eat a whole food plant based diet but find it difficult because they have no support or just he opposite people sabotage them much like someone who is trying to stop being an alcoholic if all their family/friends are still drinking how do they quit..... So since both these doctors agreed in order to be healthy zero humans require animal products in their diet and Malhotra said he respects anyone's view if they don't want to eat animals....it just really bugged me, like if he really respected/truly understood that view he wouldn't recommend people eat animal foods/wouldn't eat them himself, right? It more seems like the other way around if you ask me...like since i want to keep eating butter I'm just going to pretend all the animal/human suffering doesn't exist and ignore all the simple measurements of the resource usage surrounding diets including meat and try to find ANY research(even if it's flawed) that shows the opposite and just believe that so I can justify eating butter because that's more important than the health of the earth or my own long term health or any animals suffering(because yes unfortunately the animals suffer and are unnecessarily killed for dairy production and for egg production) at least you(anyone who reads this) know now, that these foods are not only unnecessary for humans to eat but also cause major damage to earth/the animals/our health. So I'm sure you'll not believe this actual truth but this seed of knowledge will still be planted in the back of your mind since you read all this and it will start to grow and eventually you'll come to realize and say to yourself it's not that I'm depriving myself of something(butter/eggs/etc) but i'm choosing not to eat a particular food because my health is more important, it isn't as important to me as saving the earth and not causing other living/feeling/thinking beings undue harm or suffering just so i can eat something i never even required plus actually feel better/healthier when i don't eat it. You'll come to know how it feels awesome the entire way around to not be so selfish(even tho i never felt selfish when I used to eat animals it was just because I didn't realize this was a very selfish thing to do and I don't view other people who still eat animals as selfish i just like to think they don't totally understand yet but I'm hopeful because i know everyone is able to learn new things/learn from their mistakes....js

[@thalesnemo2841]

@@Meloniraelewis Laughable! Meats heal! Eating meats made humans evolved to be human ! Go carnivore the only evolutionary appropriate human diet!

[@JC-4A53]

62 yo here. Was told I was pre- diabetic. Been on Keto based diet for over 3 months, have lost 30 pounds. BP Is down and I look ten years younger. How is this possible?

[@kumudinivithanage8959]

Eat dome carbs

[@thomaskeets3194]

Dr. Aseem was better prepared and articulate to support the evidence of a ketogenic diet.

[@mfk1234567890]

Good one. I see Dr. Aseem more grounded and intelligent with more accurate information. Dr Kahn is being a, well, not so convincing.

[@NoRegertsHere]

Honestly, I immediately thought he was on coke with his mannerisms

[@mosesgummadi]

4:15 he is right, the NHS served me a generous size Victoria sponge pudding with dinner immediately after PTCA, which I enjoyed of course

[@pepper419]

😅👍✨✨Sounds delish. Best laugh I've had all day. Long Live the King.

[@markl.2299]

Dr. Joel Kahn-man. I put my money on Dr. Malhatra. Keto rules!

[@dwcubatch83]

the plant-based cardiologist looks bloated and overweight and quite unfit and pre-diabetic. The saturated-fat based cardiologist looks fit and with trimmed waistline.

[@ronnie3440]

right, a perfect and sufficient case report to base your eating habits and personal health.

[@leroysane3052]

Difference of age only

[@OOBEJuanKenobi]

What about vegans that eat saturated fats (coconut oil)? Oops

[@varnadorel]

@@leroysane3052 Really? I think is more than that.

[@MR..181]

doctors argue patients die..quality food is self produced..stress from lack of time to produce quality foods is a problem..m

[@pimark123]

Wow this was a great, intelligent debate. This doesn't happen too often.

[@ibperson7765]

I don’t agree. Joel was very sneaky and winsome about it, but he’s a liar and a fraud.

[@ibperson7765]

Joel misrepresented multiple studies. And the ones he didn’t are fraudulent industry-funded studies. Every time animal fat vs low fat has gone head to head, low fat loses. Studies of minerals in fossilized humans show they ate meat. Olive oil is fine, but so is animal fat. Carb is the problem. Period. Not needed for human life or health.

[@vetteluvnh]

Why does the plant based doc have a fat gut & man boobs? Oh that's right... high estrogen, low testosterone, & insulin resistance. But he's saving the environment so good for him!

[@matijadrofenik4441]

Xd

[@madnezz1961]

so you don't know the difference between phytoestrogens and animal estrogens? Maybe you ought to do some research. And Insulin resistance is caused by fat

[@pattibealer]

One of the problems with these arguments is when people say "carbs", they substitute it and say "sugar". There is a HUGE difference between "carbs' and "sugar". Vegetables are "carbs", and NOT sugar. I really don't like it when they throw out the "sugar" research and throw that blanket over all "carbs". We don't eat "carbs", we eat food, grains, vegetables and real food.

[@carmenbannerman1056]

Yes, this is how I feel about meat. When grass-fed, free range and locally sourced meat is lumped together with processed meats..

[@kevinj12345]

Which is why Carb is broken down between sugar and fiber

[@sameer137]

I am 8 years old. Was diagnosed with cancer, pneumonia, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular heart disease, beriberi, Lyme disease, and dementia. Since 2003 I have been on the high plant low animal keto diet and I have already lost 200 g of body weight 😢

[@haos4574]

200g is not impressive...

[@leighalaughlin7419]

Omg Joel recommended vegetable oil and cited Harvard School of public health

[@MR..181]

leigha laughlin ..i should laugh

[@thalesnemo2841]

Harvard School of dietary propaganda!

[@cmvamerica9011]

Humans are made to be able to live on almost anything.

[@cincin4515]

A bit like dogs.

[@chrisb2734]

Government reimburses for it so it must be true... lol

[@KJC63]

just look at the difference in the bodies of the two doctors....I'll leave it at that.

[@madnezz1961]

does Joel being 30 years older matter?

[@milo8425]

"What we don't want is for people to become more confused" Shit.

[@omadoutlaw4868]

The food industries love nutrional confusion. This is big business and makes a lot of money.

[@gusgalvanini]

Keto power!

[@Magnulus76]

There's no convincing evidence that coconut oil is beneficial for preventing heart disease. It's probably better than eating butter or lard, but that's not saying much. Another problem is that most of the products marketed as coconut oil contain all sorts of fatty acids other than just medium-chain fatty acids- longer chain fatty acids are much more strongly atherogenic.

[@shawshank6015]

Canola oil is fake oil this dude in the middle pushing his vegan moves

[@TB1M1]

It's not good. But in small amounts it is ok because the body needs alpha linoleic acids. There is no essential fat in butter or animal fat...

[@eg50000]

TB1M1 none essential fat in animal???

[@B81Mack]

If there's one specific human being on this planet whose hand I'd like to shake, it's Dr. Malhotra.

[@james1327]

Really good debate. Very informative.

[@666Havers]

Both cardiologists should have to present their own medical results. Cholesterol, bmi, fasting blood sugars, blood pressure, skin fold tests, calcium score etc. Then swap diets and lock em up for 6 months in a controlled study so no fudging can be done, then present their results. We'll call it the 1v1 Cardiologist Control Study. It would require them both to put their beliefs and egos aside i the name of science.

[@666Havers]

i dont care ive read tones of shit and can always find contradictory evidence to every other piece of evidence, nutritional science is a mess. These two are trying to convince us what the best way of eating is, without showing evidence of what its doing to them! show me your blood lipids and calcium artery score, show me your bmi, abdominal fat, skin fold tests. show me everything. Then get 10 cardiologists in the room to analyze the data and present it as a maury povich blind result test, that would be awesome.

[@tomforrest6943]

Aseem looks much healthier than the vegan fatass

[@chrisvonhoenheim6498]

It'll also force the plant based doctor to put his health asside and damage his body for several months.

[@chrisvonhoenheim6498]

FesteringCorpse You can get data from repeated studies and the many MANY vegans who have published their blood results almost all of which look much better than the average in the US. My LDL went from 100 to 57 in a single year of whole food plant based diet.

[@thalesnemo2841]

Chris von Hoenheim The cholesterol hypothesis has been debunked! It is the size NOT the amount of cholesterol that matters . A proxy for cholesterol size is the triglycerides/ HDL .

[@gillianharper6831]

I tried a plant based diet but my gut could not tolerate the beans and lentils, also I could not eat soya.

[@thegoshenproject77]

I understand. However, the plant-based lifestyle embraces so much more than legumes! The basic food pyramid espoused by Seventh-day Adventists is fruit [its base], grains, vegetables, and nuts [its apex]. This model is based on the Bible [Genesis 1-3]. Any benefit derived from animal foods comes secondhand. ALL life forms derive their proteins from plant sources. Fact.

[@Crazydoglady.]

I'm glad he addressed his boots..lol..I was wondering :)

[@sooze610]

Which then makes me wonder why he wore them with that outfit. Did he plan in advance to talk about that?!!!!!

[@blacklatin11]

I believe there's a fine middle. Meaning combining Keto with Plant Based (not Veganism). Veganism came about for the animals and thus environment. Be you African, European or Asian, our ancestors were eating meat for THOUSANDS of years BUT...big 'but'...our ancestors never consumed the amount of meat we do now and our meat and plants weren'tso Genetically Modified. Are ancestors consumed more plant based diets and very little meat then and it changed according to their demographic. One may eat more fatty food in the colder demographic than those in tropics/Caribbean...but all of our ancestors ate so little of animals - SO LITTLE that animals flourished. But everything is about money and deception. The same people running the world and running Africa into the ground and deceive you with religion are the same people in the Food and Drug industry. Same people of the Military Industrial Complex. Everything is for profit. And they fear monger you to think its because we're "over populated" so the mass production of processing these animals that cause climate/environmental issues is where these crazy ass vegans come in. But its wrong. Again, if we stop listening these capitalists and eat in BALANCE the way our ancestors did and consume more fruits and veggies and ate meat IN SEASON on how they're farmed...then we will be good. So stop with this vegan, keto, paleo bullsh*t people....ESPECIALLY you vegans. As a spiritualist like my elders...a plant has just as much ka (spirit) as the animal or the tree. If you choose NOT to eat an animal thats your choice. But majority of you still don't pray to your plant food (OR Animal meat for you "omnivores") as our ancestors did. The imposing nature of many (not all) you on people becoming vegan is sickening. The world is sick. Teach the world what our ancestors did and then we'll heal the world and more animals will be saved.

[@cincin4515]

I'm sorry but you don't know what we evolved on. You weren't there. There's villages in New Guinea and Australia where the indigenous thrived purely on fish and pippies, and other purely on sweet potato. The sweet potato eaters of New Guinea were enormously obese back in the 70's before western influence. I had family living there. The pork/crocodile eaters were skinny. The Australian coastal Aboriginal people were skinny living on fish only. Don't assume a fairy story about our dietary evolution is fact. It's extremely varied.

[@Artzimer1958]

Canola oil is deadly. What the hell are you talking about.

[@ronnie3440]

prove it

[@DL-ze2hu]

He's talking about organic canola oil and the results of new studies which support its positive effects on endothelial cells...its called science based evidence...that's what the hell he's talking about. And if you paid attention, you would clearly see he's not recommending it...but he's a believer of science based results...do you believe in science or science fiction?

[@TrustNJesusChrist]

@@DL-ze2hu Just consume Extra Virgin Olive Oil which is far better. No need to even touch canola oil. OR eat some avacados.

[@DL-ze2hu]

@@TrustNJesusChrist I've come to my own conclusion recently that all oils are unnecessary...simply cook your food by steaming. Even EVOO is going to add unnecessary calories to your daily macros. Instead of EVOO...eat ten olives. Instead of Avocado oil, eat one avocado. Instead of coconut oil, eat one coconut...mass marketed "cooking" oils are no different than any other food industry trying to make a buck at the expense of our overall health span. I gave up all oils and my heart thanks me every day.

[@jennyweyman3039]

'bring the bread bowl back', that's exactly what made me fat!

[@GaryHighFruit]

No. The butter made you fat.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Maybe, maybe not. White flour is very similar to white sugar molecularly

[@karenchamps9087]

The American public is being lied to. Eating high carbs & the chemical shit in foods is causing diseases.

[@chrisvonhoenheim6498]

90% of weight gain is from too much fat consumption

[@karenchamps9087]

Chris von Hoenheim, I have been eating more fat in the last few months & have lost weight. Weight gain is due to eating high carbs. I barely eat carbs; my fasting glucose is under 100 now. If you don’t know for sure, then keep quiet 🤫. I know people that have died due to eating a high carb diet. For me, this is a matter of life & death. Don’t lead people to their death. I am trying to help my family & others live longer and healthier. Butter rocks!!

[@AlwaysBelieve777]

“We don’t want people to become more confused”......too late.

[@SalseroGreco]

..."plant based diets are naturally low sugar"... The guy is mocking us to our face. That's where I stopped the video...

[@NolanGaming99]

I think most people right now, unfortunately, need to focus on just cutting out processed junk and adding more vegetables and fruits. After people get that...then they can worry about which side of this argument they can focus on. ✌️

[@carolynbrown3379]

Alison Monroe AMEN to that!💚

[@TB1M1]

Correct. But you must reduce fat and replace with fibre. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYWbfGmEmKacndE

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Plant based cardiologist is overweight and looks bloated and unhealthy. Low carb cardiologist is lean and looks fit and healthy including healthy looking skin. Personally I'll stick with low carb, moderate protein and healthy fats from natural whole food sources.

[@yowie7169]

Did this vegan guy just recommend canola oil? 🤣🤣🤣

[@alexiswinter7056]

Did you listen to his reason or just zoom in on the word canola?

[@yowie7169]

@@alexiswinter7056 his reason has already been debunked, that's why him recommending it is hilarious.

[@TrustNJesusChrist]

Vegan logic isn't normal logic. Even at the end he had to mention the killing of animals, so there is always an agenda with vegans. Veganism, at least today, is more rooted in saving the animals than nutrition. They will make up whatever excuse they want for it.

[@debbietaylor20]

I know vegans that are obese , have heart trouble . Vegan foods people buy are full of sugar and carbs .

[@mushshrap6471]

@@TrustNJesusChrist The irony of saying any kind of logic is isn't normal logic while also having the username "TrustNJesusChrist" is utterly staggering.

[@raachu07]

Malhotra rocked... very confident, smart and know what he is talking... On the other side kahn was pathetic, he tried to look smart with casuals though not suiting his body size, spoke things mostly out of topic, not enough to debate with Malhotra... Mr kohn.. Better luck next time

[@erastvandoren]

Malhotra is an idiot.

[@healthfacts5752]

Any of these doctors... Dr Neil Barnard, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall would have been far FAR better at debating Dr Mahlotra on this issue.

[@beoptimal8650]

You can't debate what the man is saying because those are facts.

[@alesis100]

Not true - all these guys are biased and dont have solid scientific research to back their views. Couple of them are downright frauds.

[@leeallen463]

Someone should mention the water cycle to these people who go on about how much is used in producing this and that. Its basic, primary school level science that water doesn't just disapear when an animal drinks it or the sun shines on it.

[@sofiabriones5708]

I tried all type of diet-paleo, atkins, mediterranean, vegan, vegetarian but only keto helped me lower my blood pressure with no medications, I sleep 8-9hrs, my hair grows thicker thanks to keto! I lost a lot of hair when I was a vegan. And now some friends asked me if I had a facial lift because my skin is tighter and they wont believe me that I eat a lot of good fat. So keto is the one that my human anatomy likes and I dont want to change my lifestyle now

[@ClayMationNation]

What kind of Veganism were you doing?

[@planetetrangere]

What a debate! Only one guy spoke!!!

[@chucksdesk]

I don’t put any weigh on university research, they are often bought out by special interests.

[@maerosepanabe5606]

I drink coconut oil only to help with hunger

[@Richard.Atkinson]

“Our government has decided that a high carb diet is the best.” Strike one, you’re out.

[@TB1M1]

Well actually it is.. now you need to define High Carb. High carb diets create low cholesterol and low triglycerides. The reason why we have a diabetes epidemic is because of comments like that! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoDLpoSPa7R-isU

[@yeunchou1084]

Government did not recommend high carb diet, especially not refined processed foods.

[@TrustNJesusChrist]

@@TB1M1 Carbohydrates are the leading factor of inflammation, NOT FAT. They keep saying fat is the cause, but I would disagree just from my own experience. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that fat is anyway, considering fish oil which has fat, decreases inflammation. I believe Extra Virigin Olive Oil and other types of nuts high in fat reduce inflammation. So carbs will continue to be bad.

[@TB1M1]

@@TrustNJesusChrist Your own experience is n=1 placebo, it means nothing. Explain to me why in the Cleveland Clinic Studies (I H Page), Serum lipid profiles in acute myocardial infarction patients in Gorgan etc. They all have high cholesterol Same fractions as an average person on low carb diet. In populations that don't suffer any degenerative disease they have low cholesterol and low triglycerides. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoDLpoSPa7R-isU

[@TrustNJesusChrist]

@@TB1M1 Nope. Carbs make me inflamed and fat with low carb reduces it. I don't need someone telling me how I feel. You can't fucking tell me how to live and feel by some trash study. I know my body better than anyone. OH and by the way. If you are in fact vegan, don't every fucking brag about how great you felt going vegan, because according to you that is anecdotal evidence and doesn't mean shit. Good day.

[@judybaldasari8181]

Meat has been good for us for over 10000 years, and that hasn’t changed

[@omadoutlaw4868]

Fasting is not starvation,but it is the best way to deal with all this nutrional confusion that is being promoted by these two doctors. 🤠

[@andrewthacker114]

Very good information, thanks

[@JohnCamery]

He makes an anti-scientific diatribe against starch when the longest lived people in Okinawa eat sweet potatoes. They ignore the real dangers of trans-fats, fats that turn into arachidonic acid, etc.

[@NoRegertsHere]

Okinawa eat LOTS of meat

[@johannf36]

He keeps talking about BIg Sugar, but doesn't talk about the influence of Big Dairy, which is just as powerful, if not more powerful than Big Sugar. Milk, Butter and Cheese are not good for you. Milk historically was a decent substitute for Breast milk for small children, but by nature, our bodies stop needing breast milk very early in our lives, what makes us think that a poor substitute like Cows Milk better for us that human Breast milk?

[@myfdws]

No we don't need milk but cheese is low in carbs and a good source of vitimin k2

[@Magnulus76]

Sugar isn't even as powerful as the corn industry in the US.

[@tylerstading3639]

So the consensus I am seeing from watching and reading all the different perspectives seems to be that if you follow a very strict diet regimen of fats with virtually no carbohydrates you can make a high fat diet work, but the those diets come with a huge number of caveats. Fats are best when avoiding most animal sources or if you want to be less strict have to come from VERY controlled sources that you know for a fact were nowhere near factory conditions. For the average American that means you're pretty much limited to eating meat you raise yourself or from someone that you know that directly raised the animal. Even hunting animals can be suspect because you did not follow their dietary sources. What I didn't see is a damning nail in the coffin of Kahn's preferred diet. Which is much more inclusive in the variety of food sources and requires much less stringent standards for adherence (notice Kahn had no problem with some olive oils and nuts). Malhotra focused on insulin sensitivity and essentially implied that Kahn's diet would increase insulin resistance. He said it was a key marker for tracking heart disease risk, but fails to mention that plant-based carbohydrate diets tend to lower insulin resistance. The fiber and polyphenols of most complex starchy foods sufficiently slow the absorption of those starches (www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/11/4/1365) while also providing your microbiota with plenty of fuel to ensure their health as well. In fact it may be the microbiome that is helping to mediate nutrient absorption, as many truly complex starches don't start getting absorbed until they reach the lower intestines (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049512000455, pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/pr300581s). These diets also cut out most fruits, which researchers are finding you should actually be increasing your consumption of (academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article-abstract/68/3/168/1910550, www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378512209001741). If plants are making you feel bloated or uncomfortable you should look into conditions such as SIBO or gut dysbiosis (care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2014/05/12/dc13-2817.short, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4433416/). Especially if you are coming off highly restrictive diets, diets rich in lots of processed foods, are immunocompromised, or just finished rounds of antibiotics you may really experience a problem as this can kill off a lot of diversity in the gut (Missing Microbes - Martin J. Blaser). On a Macro and Micro scale the plant-based diet consistently performs well in population studies, in clinical trials, in biochemical studies. You can even do high fat diet using completely plant-based sources and still see fantastic outcomes (jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415074). But, while Malhotra correctly poked holes in the Essylstyn and Ornish studies for their confounding variables and low statistical power, you notice he did not really offer any counter evidence to back his claim that a high fat diet was better, he relied upon a personal anecdote to draw away attention and then pivoted to how insulin resistance is the best predictor for cardiac arrest. What most of these high fat folks don't emphasize is the absolute need for vegetable matter. When pressed they will admit that they are very important, but it is not a central pillar that I see emphasized most of the time and I have watched a lot of videos. Most of their time is dedicated to things like how do you source your fat and protein so as to best avoid poisoning yourself, or getting the incorrect balance of omega-6 to omega-3, or making sure you're eating all parts of the animal (ie lots of connective tissue for glycine rich proteins) which most don't even bother to mention. High fat advocates are not giving you a free pass to eat t-bones every night. If you actually want to add animal products properly the best would be to cut out almost all milks to avoid the lactose sugars and mostly eat fermented foods like yogurt or cheese, but you have to find yogurt without added sugar and cheese without a bunch of added salt. Meat has to be grass-fed, free-range, or wild-caught. The restrictions on food labeling by the FDA in that department are as bad as getting certified organic. After the loopholes and doges that can be done you end up just paying more for a slightly less tampered product in most cases. You also need to know the land conditions of most animals since toxins bio-accumulate, so if you eat bone broth you may be getting heavy metals on the side and fat also concentrates things like pesticides. The problem is employing the diets properly in the current system we have is a Herculean task, and to top it off the science behind it will have as many flaws as those of the Essylstyn and Ornish studies Malhotra criticized. At least with plant-based diets their is an overwhelming body of literature from multiple angles backing up the story, while high fat diets utilizing animal sources have much less ammunition in support of the diet. This study is even suggestive that saturated fats can negatively effect the microbiome (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002944016000195). If you really want animal protein your best bet is to raise your own insects, tilapia, fowl, etc. However, you're still looking down more data that is indicating that leucine rich meat proteins trigger the mTor pathway which is linked to cell proliferation and inflammatory biomarkers (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3310004/). More links www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991921/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2793121/

[@TB1M1]

Try Pritikin, I eat about 20-25% fat the rest is Pritikin -- some meat a little milk. but no refined carbs. Works wonders! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYWbfGmEmKacndE

[@Magnulus76]

@@TB1M1 The Pritikin diet is less than 10 percent fat, 12 percent protein.

[@SatumainenOlento]

@@Magnulus76 I will look into that! Thank you!

[@Dogfacedbloke]

"Our government says it's safe..." OK, we can assume that's the very worst advice.

[@1967davidfitness]

Why has Dr Kahn got a spare tyre around his waist? Hmm...he needs to listen to Dr Malhotra!

[@siegfriedfurtwanglerknappe6188]

Joel Kahn was still losing weight here. He has lost that weight by now. Meanwhile Malhotra has been ridiculed for his quackary.

[@1967davidfitness]

Rubbish..show me photo of him being slim without a large belly.

[@siegfriedfurtwanglerknappe6188]

He has his own youtube channel just check it out. His more recent videos he's clearly leaner. Ps also read Mlahotr's editorial and read his sources. They completely contradict him.

[@drakefire1800]

David J Because he's promoting eating vegetable oils.

[@1967davidfitness]

Kahn has overdone the weightloss, he looks weak, all he needed to do was lose the spare tyre.

[@EpochUnlocked]

Come on doc, animals pee out majority of the water they consume. So in retrospect, growing crops use more water.

[@destroya3303]

Vegan guy as always seems like he is over compensating.

[@EpochUnlocked]

Yea, especially with the guilt trip at the end.

[@misscorina]

Agreed, I think he may have a much thinner than average penile artery. His apparently friendly hi five that he turned into a man handle at the end lends weight to my theory.

[@HabitsV2]

And this is the problem: Two cardiologists cannot agree on the most basic of premises...Does fat cause heart disease or not? And yet both will practice and advise as if they do. How in the hell is any lay person supposed to know what to do. To top it off, when Dr Kahn's reference to the Ornish study was debunked, he reverted to morals. I don't care about your morals, I want solid advice on what to feed myself and my family for a long and healthy life.

[@frankmosca5869]

Aseem rocks. Joel looks a little thick in the waist.

[@tj_zzz]

That's because his mom fed him right.

[@pepper419]

We're animals. We've always been animals. Our brain is sixty percent fat, not olive oil and even the Italians didn't always use olive oil. It became convenient when there was no meat in the islands. They ran out of lard and duck fat.

[@aniccadance13]

Another vegan missionary preaching his gospel.. And vegetarianism is good for the environment. Well he should read The Vegetarian Myth.

[@GaryHighFruit]

OHH my Gawd. Liar Keith is gonna debunk our vegan shit??????? LOLLLOLLLLOOLO ALL YOU MEAT-HEADS ARE PROTESTING SOOOO MUCH IT'S OBVIOUS you are BSing yourselves.

[@LunaRa22]

Dumb comment. They agreed on almost everything lol

[@someguy2135]

It's easy to sell a lot of books pandering to the majority, who eat whatever they find appealing to their taste buds. Food should be thought of as fuel for the body, not just fun for the mouth. BTW, wfpb vegan food can taste good too.

[@thalesnemo2841]

Vegan CarboRaider Another nonsensical factually wrong comment from a preachy zealot vegan cabbage head !

[@JD-gm1wq]

Yappy about what the government supports is the red flag right there. Big pharma and the FDA are one and the same. The same people work for the two industries....both care about money only.

[@marklittlewood2418]

One thing which was not touched upon was the effect of the APO E gene. Those with a 3/4 or 4/4 gene or more prone to alzheimers and heart disease and the way they metabolize fat and cholesterol differs from those without a 4 in their gene makeup. If this is correct low fat would benefit those of type 4 gene. Could it be that being already cursed with heart disease the patients of Ornish were predominantly type 4 gene types and as such gained most benefit from being low fat.

[@purpleblueunicorn]

Is having the 4/4 gene the only way to get heart disease? If no, then your theory doesn't work, since Ornish healed most his patients and a good part must not have been 4/4.

[@TB1M1]

Yes. It is unnatural to consume so much fat. The liver has to make excecess amounts of bile which can result in stones. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYWbfGmEmKacndE

[@Magnulus76]

@@purpleblueunicorn The APOE4 gene isn't the only way to get heart disease. I don't have it but people in my family have had heart disease if they lived long enough, usually into their 50's or 70's. If you eat the standard fatty diet of their generation ,with alot of ham and butter, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll get heart disease at some point.

[@purpleblueunicorn]

@@Magnulus76 I know you can get early calcification and other weird things. Ornish's diet might help with that. You can also have things l like hole that can be fixed with surgery. They might have had that.

[@Magnulus76]

@@purpleblueunicorn I follow a vegan diet, and I'm the only member of my family that actually has normal BMI and isn't taking a handful of pills every day. My diet is not extreme though, it's not low salt or particularly low fat. It's actually close to a Mediterranean diet or what the American Heart Association advises people consume. I don't eat coconut oil, though, there's no evidence refined coconut oil is actually healthy to consume.

[@occamsrazor6613]

The Mediterranean diet is not going to do squat for you, if you don't adapt the Mediterranean culture i.e. less work, a good afternoon siesta, having a social life, spending time in the beach, getting a sun tan, less traffic, 4weeks vacation.etc etc. What good is Mediterranean diet when I live in New York and it takes me 1.45 minutes to get to work driving,-one way- or 1:15 minutes squeezed like a sardine in the train? It's not just diet it's quality of life which is missing from most big cities all over the world but especially in the USA with it's extreme capitalistic mind set. Stress is surely killing us all, slowly, but surely.

[@lil-al]

Occams Razor don't forget the red wine.

[@JonathanGlassND]

Thank you Dr Kahn for mentioning the environmental aspect...something so many just dont like to hear.

[@drakefire1800]

Jonathan Glass L.Ac, Ayurvedic Practitioner They have ruined the water supply in south america from pineapple and avocado farming. Meat production vs fruits is irrelevant when it comes to the environment.

[@benhanson6140]

monocrop agriculture trashes the environment just as bad as raising animals for meat

[@pepper419]

The water to make a pound of meat is down to the fact that the animals have been removed from the land. THAT'S ALL. If they were on the land and industry weren't growing millions of square miles of soy, corn, sugar, oils for cooking, grains, wheat for cookies and cakes and other junk food. The animals could have their grazing land back and the water wouldn't be pumped from a mile underground. Industry is doing this for greed and that's all it is. Animals don't make money. See these things for what they are and take the blinders off. Soy was brought to the West by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. WHY? To veganise the population. To make money for the Church and they have done a wonderful job.

[@leoeriksson1859]

Joel need to get rid of that belly :-) Dr. Aseem Malhotra might help him?