Does the Lie Board Lie? Iron Fitting Test

[@Ader03A]

Wish I'd known this a year ago when I bought my new set of irons. Was fitted for 3* upright purely on the feedback from impact tape (very simlair pattern as Ian) and have been hooking alot since then. It especially worse in the shorter irons where Im regulary hooking the PW 25 yards (GW 3 degree flatter and not showing those tendacies). Thanks for the great insights, even though it's abit of sour grapes to do lie adjustments within a year you're 'fitted' for new clubs. I'm sure it will be worth in order to enjoy the game of golf! Wish all fitters were as knowledgable as you guys!

[@ZolalLegend25CFC]

This rings so true with me, I suffer from early extension in my swing so I deliver toe down a lot. My miss is always a draw/hook even with 7 irons. I've been fit as 2 degrees upright twice in the past from lie boards. I've just had an Edel fitting and gcquad was used and no lie board I have been fitted as 2 degrees flat! I was confused. This video explains it perfectly. Well done chaps! I hope old skool fitters watch this!!!!

[@winstonsmith11]

Thank you, Matt and Ian. This is eye-opening. I think I've been mislead. I have a similar situation to Ian. Lifting the handle, hanging back a bit, and flipping. I had my irons fit for lie angle, with the lie board. My sole impact was 2 or 3 degrees towards the toe. So naturally, they made them more upright. I've since struggled with my ball starting further left, and curving further left. Never considered that the fitting might be responsible. Immediately started to diagnose it as a swing issue, and eventually lost my timing. I'm fairly sure now that I should have my lie angle restored, or even flattened further. Thank you so much for this information.

[@clubchampionmedia]

Happy we could help Adam!

[@jimmyvespegolf3834]

Good topic guys, and I'm leaning towards agreeing with Jim Maclean on this one. I think clubs should evolve over time as your swing changes. But it depends on your goals.... if you want to stay a chopper, then keep them flat. Being so far from the inside (7 degrees) and toe down is a recipe for the lefts for a player of any kind of ability. Fixing that by making the clubs flatter won't allow you to ever get out of that problem. I think the best recipe for you is bend those clubs upright and learn to start the ball left of target and fade back to target ala Hogan, who pretty much matched his shaft plane at address and impact and that was his stock shot. Once you learn how to do that flight then maybe you will be heel down on the lie board and can start bending them flatter. Hope this helps. BTW I'm not a fitter, I'm a player, a thinker on the game and have a degree in Mathematics so not some bloke with a random idea here.

[@TedInoue]

That is fascinating, and exactly what I experienced at my fittings. Both fitters adjusted me 1-2 degrees upright to center the strike board pattern and I've always fought to prevent too much draw. I bought a set of used clubs that were a degree flat, have been playing them without adjustment and they've been flying much straighter. My wedges, which are still upright, tend to be very prone to hooks.

[@jothkell9173]

Go flat my friend!

[@EvalHellBF3]

Another very insightful video guys, would be interesting to see your thoughts on Mizuno’s shaft Optimizer 3D, as it also calculates dynamic loft with the use of a gyroscope, see how good it is 👍🏻

[@TrevorDandy.]

I'll second this.

[@Golfholics]

Such a good video guys. This just shows people the value of a proper fitting with CURRENT tech.

[@clubchampionmedia]

Thanks guys!

[@natekyle9896]

@@clubchampionmedia ...Let's get that PREMIERE date going hahaha!

[@BaBaBooeyWRLD]

Golfholics so ignore the lie angle and where the face impacts the ball until you start hitting em as straight as possible?

[@-mikog8tor]

Had a fitting at your Toronto location with a buddy a week or two ago and it was worth the 4hr drive each way! Looking forward to taking the knowledge I gained there and the adjustments made to my clubs to the course in a few weeks! Keep up the great work!!

[@Skybo22]

I am by no means a club fitter or expert, however I read another comment earlier that I have a question on as well. Could this also just be an issue with the club being too closed at impact now that the lie angle is square (not toe down)? To me, you would adjust lie angle in order to eliminate turf interaction interfering with the club path, and then if you are still hooking the ball then a slight swing/grip adjustment needs to be made. I feel that Ian, being as proficient and athletic of a player as he is, has learned in his own swing to compensate for the toe down position in order to get a desired shot shape. Therefore, once the lie angle is adjusted to be square, he is now hitting a hook rather than a straight ball. All in all, love the content guys! Just wanted your insight on this topic a little more.

[@droptopp67]

I was thinking the same thing. Ball placement, distance standing away from the ball or grip adjustment makes more sense... I can't imagine correcting a swing fault by adjusting the lie angle to dig into the ground? Maybe there's something I'm missing?

[@sabrinachiang8356]

Making the clubs work for you, not you working to fit the clubs.

[@cw1926]

This is exactly my question as well. What am I missing? Seems like he’s corrected the club face, but now he’s just closing it at impact. Is there more to this story?

[@bradwells2360]

This is so eye-opening. Considering every "fitter" in my city goes off a lie board..... no thanks.

[@jockcocurtis9137]

I knew I was right. I keep telling this guys my clubs need to be flattened out, I keep over drawing the ball and they’ve given me 2* up on the set, but of course the pro here keeps telling me it my swing. I need to come see you guys all the way from NC. Maybe this June

[@jcripley5425]

Book now, Ian's dance card seems to be filling up fast! Just with foreign exchange you'd likely pay for your plane ticket doing a full bag.

[@jothkell9173]

Go flat! Suffer your upright clubs no longer

[@beradbro]

I just ordered a set of mizuno jpx 900 tour 2* upright and OMG I'm way out in left field. Great relevant video as always. You guys need a show on the golf channel.

[@beradbro]

Do you suggest getting every iron adjusted the same amount or should each club be tested if possible. I heard somewhere that higher loft clubs will end up more offline than a low loft club, is that true

[@anthonygovantes2456]

@@beradbro In another video they said that each iron should be fit indivually due to the changes in swing from let's say 9 iron to 4 iron. So one may be 1* upright and another may be 'standard'.

[@howardbarker276]

Hi Ian & Matt I was fitted for two different brands on two separate days one out side with trackman & the other inside with GC quad outside the fitter recommended 1deg flat & inside the same 1 deg flat inside he also used the lie board to just check & it also came out as 1deg flat. The shaft recommended by the outside fitter was AMT red regular & inside Nippon 950GH. My current irons are the ping G Max with Standard ping Shaft’s.

[@GolfDuff]

Great video. My first and only fitting was off a lie board. I never felt confident on that fitting, and sold my very expensive irons with a loss just months later to get something off the rack.

[@eriksvideos6022]

Great video. Perfect debunking of a popular misconception. The only caveat I would add is that there are limits to using lie angle to fix ball flight issues. Too much can put people in awkward and uncomfortable setup positions. If it's more than +/- 2 degrees or so, it's time for a swing fix not just an equipment adjustment.

[@mattgriffiths2953]

One of your most interesting videos so far, I think this is exactly what happened to my dad at his iron fitting a few years ago

[@4a.m.wakeupcall588]

I know this video is a bit older now. But I found it when I needed to. Was going in for a fitting to gap my wedges better seen this video 2 days before the fitting. I think this for sure has saved my golf game! I had my clubs bent 2 upright when I first got fit. Talked to the pro today about flatting them out and boom I could finally hit my lines with out making a drastic swing change!

[@lionbites1741]

So my 'home-made' way of a black sharpie line on a ball is out of the window! Ball flight first before lie angle. Wow! Ian that's blown my mind but your thought pattern makes sense. Back to scratch when it comes to my thoughts on correctly fitted irons. Most probably the most eye opening golf video I have seen. Thanks Ian and Matty.

[@krishepburn1560]

Been custom fitted for Ping 4 years ago, Srixon 2 years ago, both off lie boards, both put me in standard. Went for a Titleist fitting yesterday, after he’d found the head and shaft the lad said “ is that your shot, always left of target?” He stood behind me with every shot, then he tried the same head but 2 degrees flat, all of a sudden, everything was down target line. Came home, watched this and your lie angle video, went back today to try them again, they’ve now been ordered. I’m astounded at this 😮 Just goes to show, even the folk you trust to do the right job for you make an arse of it.

[@whiskerrub3821]

Golf’s Myth Busters, biggest thing here is a get a knowledgeable fitter you trust that is as passionate about your tour as much as you are, in that there is value. TXG channel on KZbin great value, thanks.

[@richardsdiaz1]

I've had a similar experience...based on lie board and tape, the fitter wanted to put me in 3* flat irons! When I tested with a proper launch monitor somewhere else with the same irons we saw that although I setup to the ball toe up I dynamically returned the club to neutral with my swing and so really only needed 1* flat at most!

[@kentg1864]

Awesome video - learned so much. Will never get golf clubs again without this technology

[@vivitoisright382]

Great information! This makes a lot of sense. One of the reasons I never been fitted , hard to find an honest fitter.

[@markstratman6147]

I like what you guys do. If you really want to understand golf fitting info , if start with ball flight when looking at lie angle. Spin rates on drivers start with impact on face not what spin number is. I only say these things because way to many of us have been told wrong , before TXG came along. They have shared the full facts before you spend your next thousand dollars on clubs. Thanks guys for helping us play better.

[@rogerdennis6477]

Great video fellas. To prove the point I took my Irons into my local American Golf store today to check my lie angle, and my results with the tape were the same. I was 3 degrees toe down but my ball flight was beautiful and where I wanted it. So the advice I was given was not to change the lie angle as my face to path etc was spot on. This video just confirms what I was told today, a comforting thought

[@brockpeterson3156]

I just got a pit in my stomach while watching this video. I'm not near as prolific a ball striker as Ian, but this really hit home for me. I swing in-to-out and I'm a handle lifter. I was fitted about two years ago with indoor Trackman and aid of a lie board. I was set up with a set of green dot Ping irons (upright 2.25*). For two years I've been hitting these ugly hooking iron shots. No matter what I tried I couldn't get the thing to go straight unless I really worked hard and took a bunch of swing speed off. I thought, well there's obviously me and there's something wrong with my swing and I just need to work harder at it. I feel like after watching this that I've been swinging my irons with one hand tied behind my back. What an eye-opener. I'm looking at plane tickets to Toronto right now.

[@DanTheGunMonkey]

Mad isn't it! I almost bought a full set of new titleist irons 2 degrees upright... luckily I got a crappy club changed and it was awful. But I did think it was me initially....

[@BergeNZ8q]

I can relate to your experience also. I’ve been playing for almost 10 years with equipment that isn’t even close to what I should be using. As soon as my swing improved I started going left. I would then resort to flipping to keep the ball going straight. As soon as I went 2 degrees flat everything went back to where I was when I was a 3 handicap.

[@peteratherton897]

Hey Brock, I’m just rewatching some videos and was just wondering if you got yourself to Toronto for a fit?

[@brockpeterson3156]

@@peteratherton897 I'm heading there this weekend! I'll share the results when I get back. I'm looking through some old fitting videos and prepping myself mentally for the experience. Update coming shortly!

[@peteratherton897]

Brock Peterson Wow! This weekend, you lucky lucky man, I’m sure Ian and the gang will sort you out, I’d love to be doing what you’re doing, I’m a bit far away tho, Lancashire, England, enjoy and good luck, try not to spend too much money haha 👍🏌️‍♂️

[@brucemaines3124]

Spot on guys. I had a fitting with a mizuno fitter using the lie board. Had the same toe down delivery, but the ball flight was straight to slight draw. I was fully expecting the fitter to recommend that I order my MP18's 3 degrees upright, but he told me to trust the ball flight and order them at standard. I followed his advice and came away a happy customer.

[@kenk4764]

Every video of this nature educates the customer with more information to define their own needs, ask the right questions, and understand ball flight characteristics. This helps us choose the right equipment and work more intelligently with a fitter. Thanks.

[@johnnymac3826]

This is going to be interesting and love how you guys are thinking out of the box for new content. Heres my perspective i think alot of clubfitters get wrong is building an entire set of clubs based on lie angle results of only one club. I believe that each club should be fitted with the lie board to get the most from your fitting.

[@stevezielmanski2516]

I agree with you. I have my long irons more upright than standard. Short irons are 2* flat. First saw this with Stewart Cink. His long irons were 4*upright, mid irons 2*up, short irons 1* up.

[@banditbaker1675]

That's interesting John I was going to say/ask something along the same lines. I notice that with my Irons I always have a tendency to hit my longer Irons left to right and as I come down the set I move to neutral and then in my short Irons I pull them left with a definite heel strike. So I was going to ask if an Iron set could be customised with a variable lie angle (Upright in the longer Irons and then Flat in the short Irons)? Any thoughts Guys?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Lie angles should be assessed on each club, absolutely. A player may need to be more upright in the long irons and flatter in the wedges (for example) to get the best performance throughout the set

[@banditbaker1675]

Thanks Guys, that really helpful

[@Overrevving]

I had a lie fitting the other day with no launch monitor. He gave me a club that was 2° up. Felt better, probably had an amazing divot, but couldnt see where the ball went. That being said, I have another fitting scheduled next week with Trackman. Ball flight is most important. I'm just happy I didnt buy after the first lie board fitting, I hope this video helps others avoid lie-board only fitting. Great job, guys!!

[@vananimalable]

Word, WOW! I was just fitted for a set of JPX921F and I was thinking to myself where is the Lie Board? 12 years ago when I was fitted that is what they used! Awesome knowledge shared, thank you! VMAN

[@-TroyStory-]

I definitely raise the handle through impact and would hit 10 yard fades with 5i-3i but a 2* upright lie change has me hitting straight to small draws. Definitely matters how one delivers the club face through impact and isn't just about lie angle alone. Great stuff once again Gents!

[@Mboogie69]

Just went back and saw this one from a year ago. Mind blower and could be why I hit it left so often... lie board had me 3-4 up, but now ball goes left.

[@iainharrison1764]

Wish I could have seen this 18 months ago! I was fitted using a lie board and ended up in 2 degree up irons which I just found awful. I was back using my old clubs and selling the new ones about 4 months later - so couldn't agree more! Great informative video again - Thanks.

[@bl_pga]

This described what I struggled with when getting fit previously to a T! Great video guys been waiting for this one!

[@tristanbexton6023]

Yea me too, I was fit by Wilson with a lie board when I didn't know better and while I loved the feel of the clubs, they were hook machines until I took them to Ian.

[@bl_pga]

Tristan Bexton I was lucky to know a good club builder when I was young who bent all my clubs flat to help fight a hook and haven’t changed in 10+ years

[@robvivian7182]

Where was this 2 years ago when I was fiited into a set of Cobra F7's. Standard loft and lie by the lie board and ever since I picked the clubs up nothing but huge hooks with the 5 & 6 irons. This again is an awesome video that explains the how and why of golf!

[@speedinon]

I did that lie tape test (about 30 years ago) and the mark was perfectly in the middle every time. So, nothing done for the lie angle, but I was scooping the ball and hitting high weak push fades. Just shows how much tech and tech knowledge has improved over the years.

[@paulconanmurray9657]

This is incredible, Ian is shifting the paradigm!

[@richardn8702]

Thanks for sharing this video! Explains what happened a few years back when I was improperly fit (due to lie board). Went from 1* Up to 4* Flat (standard shot is a draw, with heel contact). Lost my standard shot for 2 years (thinking I would be able to correct it due to being a 1.2 at the time), before being fit elsewhere.Thanks for all the great work you do on the channel!

[@Chris.Cliver]

Thankful to have stumbled across this old video before my custom iron fitting happening indoors a few days. I now will focus more on the trackman stats and launch direction and face to path than the lie board. Informative and a level above any other golf channel out there once again by TXG. Cheers guys!

[@luisrepreza174]

Ian, I followed your advice on that and what a difference now in ball contact, ball flight and distance. 2 degrees up it's all I needed. Thanks for making my life easier on the golf course 😎 You guys are awesome!

[@nicholasdalton5678]

It is incredible what Ian knows and the content Ian, Matt, and TXG provide to us golfers! Thank you for your content and wow incredible. I remember getting fit with lie boards when I first got into golf, amazing seeing this video! I mean how can you argue with those results! Thanks for another great video!

[@benross422]

I wish I had seen this video before I got "fitted" by Golfsmith. I was a very good ball striker playing standard L/L/L and they wanted to put me in 1" long 2 up, we compromised on 1/2" long 2 up. I played for nearly 10 years with these specs across 2 different sets of irons. The other day, I hit a few shots with my friends irons which are standard L/L/L and found I could hit irons again. Just bent my set back to standard and magically, the trend had continued. In two rounds since the change, I've had 13 and 11 GIR, when my avg for the last 300 rounds is 8. I didn't suddenly learn how to hit an iron shot. Jim McClean is WRONG. Furthermore, the bad fitting was a band aid for a poor swing plane. Great video guys.

[@dmassey1740]

Can you do a video discussing sharpie on the ball? I recently tried two clubs. One was 2 degrees flat and one was standard. My sharpie mark was straight on both. I compensated at address or something. Felt like there was no validity to the test

[@phoenixkarma1118]

Guys awesome stuff again here! I think your "fitting" series helps everyone out. Both fitters and players. I can now understand what my "static" fit numbers are vs my "dynamic" fit numbers. My last fit was a line drawn on the ball using -1-degree flat lie angle club based on "static" measurements and I remember not even caring about where the ball went after I hit it. The main concern by the fitter was looking at the tape on the face to see where the line was. Luckily, I haven't bought anything yet because I really went just wanting to get a better understanding of what I would want my clubs specs to be. When I go to get fit again someday, which will probably be when I purchase something, I now know what I didn't know before. Thanks again!

[@clubchampionmedia]

Glad we could help Michael!

[@weslangkau1470]

This video makes me more excited for my fitting appointment than any other. I’ve built my golf swing off of a fitting of +1 inch 2* up. Ive always over hooked the ball and start line is always left of what I’m looking at. I’ve always felt like I was blocking the ball and couldn’t release the club head or the ball would dive left. Great video guys! See you in May Ian.

[@justgettinby8260]

I love the content you gents pump out. So insightful and it shows how the golf world is evolving. Can’t wait to see the TXG/Golfholics collab!

[@rufussthoo4083]

Fabulous expose on the dangers of (best intentions) uninformed 'expertise' giving poor outcomes. Just 3 days ago I used a lie board. It showed I need a 2 degree flatter lie. But I naturally fade my irons and my miss is a power draw 40 meters wide of the target. If I'd flattened my lie, my fades would have become slices and misses would be the only good shots I hit. Thank goodness I came across this video. It has saved me money and a heap of future angst. Thanks for another insightful and educational video guys. I just wish I was a tad closer to CA than the bottom of the planet :(

[@kourt2469]

I did a lie board test one time in my life with ping. I hit a 2 flat, a standard, and a 2 up club. I marked each club perfectly flat on the lie board indicating each one was perfect fit for me. I knew right away when they gave me a club that looked flat I compensated to get it to sit flush. So I bent over more and stayed low and stood further away. The upright club I stood taller and kept handle high. Each one I hit basically identical shot and shape. For me I went with comfort. I felt most comfortable with the 2 up. Been playing that for 6 years now. Can still hit a flat club good no problem but I feel way too squatty.

[@oldgold5848]

Good stuff Kourtney but i would imagine you must be a decent player. Not sure a hacker would be able to compensate as well.

[@kourt2469]

OLDGOLD Yeah ive played quite a bit so was aware of it. But just pointing out that there is for sure a mental or visual adjustment that players could potentially make without them even realizing they are. Ideally the player swings the club identical each time but there for sure can be players that react to how the club looks and make adjustments off that.

[@davidbird1308]

This is great information and I will veryify. After 17 years of playing my clubs 2+ upright (67 degree SW), I had (for lack of a better term) an electronic fitting. I had midsized Golf Pride Plus4 grips installed to keep me from going left. Finally Shawn my fitter verified that I should be1/2" long, but standard lie. After the adjustments were made, I shot 71 for the first time in 18 years...coincidence?

[@danielsharp3212]

Been catching up on old videos and this is a great one, my first experience was with a lie board and was fitted 2 upright, fast forward 2-3 years and I wanted new clubs so went to American Golf who offered cash for my old bats, told the "sales" guy big mistake what my previous club set ups were (2 upright), didn't realise until lately how bad this was coupled with the fact i was fitted using range balls!. I'd truly be at your door in the morning if you had a fitting studio in the UK, however i'm hoping to book a session at Silvermere Golf shortly (waiting for new JPX921 to arrive) and hope the experience will be better. keep it up with the brilliant content guys, love the channel!

[@philovenell5644]

Great illustration of my question about toe down Tuesday morning. Very excited about getting the new wedges. Can't thank Ian and Matt enough for this type of insight.

[@duanegarbett7100]

Great channel. You guys do a great job. I love your take on the game and the way to think about your equipment. I look forward to your videos daily! Keep it up

[@michaelg3911]

I've gotten quite an education on lie angles over the past month while testing clubs. I really thought the lie board was the baseline of club fitting, but it is only a reference tool. I agree with Ian here that the combination of swing path and club geometry have to be taken into account. While 3 degrees toe down may sound like a huge amount, if you think about the distance from the center of the club face out 1" towards the toe the drop is only .052" or 1.3mm (tangent of 3 degrees). On a hard lie board that is something but when hitting off turf it's practically nothing. If they still made the flat bottom blades of the 60's it would be a concern, but todays clubs are designed with a radius around the sole that make them very versatile for a variety of club swing paths.

[@kevhulme8595]

So glad I've seen this , I was told 3/4 degrees up ,on lie board but hitting irons nice and straight , definitely not changing them now

[@TheLastDansMusic]

Absolutely brilliant video. Your guys content is the perfect balance between golf and geek. Love it. Thanks Ian and Matty.

[@landonvanhorn592]

This videa answered alot of questions ive beem having lately. Im a tall golfer(6’4”) and have always been told i needed upright clubs. I have really struggled with pull draws, and making swing changes seemed like the only fix. Im definately a handle raiser. Im bendin my set flat asap. Thanks guys.

[@scottgibbs7235]

This is a great video. I just recently had my irons adjusted flat due to another video you guys had showing someone pulling the ball Left. I'm stuck in a situation where I live in a rural area and I don't have the time to Drive close to an hour one way to have swing Lessons.

[@shawnmich3779]

I got fit in 1996 with a lie board. It was my second year playing tour golf. EVERY solid hit mid-long iron for about 6 months was hooked. Grabbed a friends irons 2* flat and INSTANTLY fixed!

[@grewk2518]

Content like this makes me realize that probably 5% of fitters are actually worthy of your money. And most of them are in the same 5 Cities.

[@TC-ps9sd]

It makes me realize why I'm hesitant to get fitted (or take lessons) from just anyone. To paraphrase the Hippocratic oath - "First, do no harm."

[@lukereutergolf]

fully agree , especially in this case . ball flight first . fitters should know the lie board isn't everything . but fitting is also about giving the customer the experience of a fitting, making him feel like hes being fitted , nothing wrong with using a lie board , if the fitter knows what hes doing . but i get what you saying about demo day fitters ,maybe they paint a bad light on lie boards .lie angle eg . scenario . player plays most of his golf on a firm golf course and he scoops the ball badly and upward angle of attack on his irons .. the player is toe down . because of these factors he wil miss low on the face and a lot of the time very thin shots . as the leading edge cannot get under the ball because of this swing and firm turf conditions . lie board in this case nice way to explain and visually show the customer whats happening . turf conditions play a roll with lie angle to an extent . for me it adds value to the fitting when asking the customer what turf conditions he plays on mostly when looking at his angle of attack and going through lie angles section of a the fitting . this type of case will lead into the correct sole design or sole thickness for this player . but always going back to ball flight . do all factors correlate to what is best for that player .

[@rickvandiepen9507]

EXACTLY what i am struggling with.🙌 i am a upright swinger. thats who i am biomechanical! no changing that! my miss is an pull hook🤦‍♂️. just like Ian. thats why i always liked to play a flat lieangle. recently i ve had bend my irons 3 degrees upright and am making flatter divots and better contact. Now i am working on my swing to quancel left out. i am forcing my self to make better swings and IT WORKS. my ballstriking is better than its ever been. more speed, more compression. so there are two sides to this story. The quick fix; lie accommodating the ballflight. The long-term improvement in swing; fit for lie-angle Iam also has a good swing, with speed. like me his improvement opportunity's is more down AOA/ more compression and less arm/club roll trough impact. Keep working on it mate! 👍

[@davidburrell2778]

Would also like to see you guys do a video on how you would fit for length of club and how the length can impact someone.

[@GTF85]

What a video lads, been told i'll be 2/3 upright after the lie board test but it just doesn't sit well with me.My miss with my standard lie and length irons is always left (well struck) and have always wanted to try a flatter iron to see how that goes instead. Keep up the good work, great channel.

[@kevinguyotte79]

“Better than nothing?” “Almost” - 😂😂😂

[@ianfrasergolf]

Kevin Guyotte 😉

[@josephritschl2781]

I’m planning on getting fitted for a new driver ASAP, and after watching a bunch of your videos, I’m worried the fitter won’t have a clue.

[@jacobmccain8082]

This makes SO much sense to me. Was fit into 2* upright and have struggled with pull hooks ever since. I hit the ball solid still but it starts left and then draws like normal.

[@glenburr6755]

Very good info! I think I’m starting to see why my iron play has turned into hitting big hooks. My lie angles are a couple degrees more upright than what I was playing!

[@medfloat5001]

Great idea for a video. Examining ALL the techniques used in a fitting would be very enlightening

[@stuyfoster]

Fantastic video this is why people should get fitted at a facility like yours or similar. I have just been fit at precision golf in the uk and the only time the board was used was for my wedge fitting. Well done again guys keep up the good work!

[@bobburke5066]

It does not seem to me it's a good idea to hit a club toe down, fix the swing instead?

[@qnpmh]

Excellent analysis, I remember my lie board fitting 20years ago. Today's technology is AWESOME!!!

[@Pr0sacK]

Great points here. I just got fitted 4 days ago, and while he did the lie board test, it wasn't a primary focus. My session went a bit like this: Warm up Asked where my misses usually were (right) Tracked about 20 shots with the GC Quad. Used tape to see where I normally struck the ball (toe) Lie board test and determined a 2 degree up adjustment was recommended Tested about six different shafts with the same head adjusted up 2 degrees. Observed ball flight with each shaft, and we determined that my stock shaft was the best one for me (which is not normal apparently). I can tell you for sure that using the club at the fitting with the lie angle adjusted made all the difference. Shots were much straighter, and I gained a bit of yardage as well. I took my clubs over to get adjusted immediately, and played a round of golf. I was shocked at how well I was hitting them. For some, the lie angle is all that needs to be adjusted, but I agree that the GC Quad is invaluable to dig deeper into the analytics of the swing and ball flight to determine an accurate result. I plan on getting fitted periodically as I am improving and I fully understand that my swing will undergo slight changes as I gain more confidence!

[@samuelstecker8708]

Guys, I've been suspect of the lie board for quite some time Thanks for putting analytics to the mystery. Looking forward to seeing you in September for my fitting

[@carlp7017]

There are countless golden nuggets of info in this video. Thanks as always for the enlightenment!

[@TC-ps9sd]

Great demonstration of how a lie board fitting could be problematic. The average golfer would compensate for over drawing the ball which could result in causing swing problems!

[@joepesce6405]

I have the same swing tendencies that Ian has. I was fitted for 3 degrees upright and it was a disaster. I played my JPX 850 forged for 1 season and ended up trading them in. My next fitting was was for 2 degrees flat and I really started to enjoy the game more. My miss is still a 20 yard hook, but its more manageable. Homerun vid!

[@chrisfreitag2603]

Great video and insight on the impact of lie angle on face angle. Technology is now your friend. Using data from GC quad to give you ball flight, dynamic lie, speed, launch, etc.and having loft/lie machine to fine tune club fitting, versus depending on lie board alone. Hmmm, so where would you want to go for your fitting.

[@mitchleask1368]

This information is just golden. One factor in this is having someone nearby who has a GC Quad or GC2 with HMT. All the fitters local to me are either Trackman or GC2 without HMT. Because of this I have only been fit on lie boards to date. I'm fairly lucky though and have a lowish handle.

[@DanTheGunMonkey]

Super interesting! I've seen so many people who have been fitted on a lie board.... scary now I know. And yup I play regular lie with a draw shape and handle raiser here too. Had a club bent upright before and thought I was having an off day at the range. This explains it!

[@phoward0032]

I am in this exact situation. I play toe down with a draw. Been a player for 20+ years. Anytime I’ve ever been fitted..golf galaxy reps and other golf shops in local area, they have 100% of the time told me I needed to be 4 upright. I walked out every time. Unfortunately there is nowhere here that has the knowledge of you guys and a few others I’ve seen online. Wish I had the money to fly up to Canada to save some strokes. I’m going to go 2* flat on my AP2’s or get some Mizuno that are flatter than titleist.

[@golfingmatt82]

This is your best video yet. I always got fit at "standard", but continued to hit the ball R for a LH golfer. 5-6 years ago I bought a basic loft/lie machine and started bending an old blade set down flat until I hit a straighter ball flight. After trial and error I landed about 3 degrees flat and have a much better ball flight with the ball staying slightly L of center. This allowed me to pivot better and dropped me down to low single digits since I took away my big miss. This confirms I am not crazy! Thanks! What driver/woods/hybrids are the best to get if I like flatter lie angles? I find these clubs continue to be the most difficult for me to fit since I like flatter lie angles and they look so upright.

[@clubchampionmedia]

new Ping G410 woods, also Titleist TS and 818 hybrids - both have flat settings

[@sactownjoey]

Mizuno CLK hybrids also have a 1.5 degree flat standard lie and can be adjusted up to 2* upright if needed.

[@maximumeffort2718]

The penny had dropped… having all lies checked. Thanks for great content as always - very helpful

[@timl3668]

Great video. I learned this lesson on my own a few years ago after a fitter bent my irons 3 up.

[@mikecook8059]

So the next time someone tries to fit me with a lie board I go running out of the shop!!! Thanks!! Love the video, very informative!!

[@randalllaframboise360]

I've always maintained using a lie board only shows where you're hitting the club on the bottom. It really has no reflection of anything regarding grip, dynamic lie angle, swing - down the line/out to in/in to out. It may tell you more about addressing the ball relative to the distance of your centre of mass and the swing compensations when too close or far to the ball. There are so many compensations one can make with the club and the body that fitting with a lie board you get the correct results by accident or serendipity. I've been golfing over 40 years now...my clubs are on average 2" over standard, use a separated grip, and can use practically any club you give me. I can make the compensations in my hands because of more control on the club. For the most part I wouldn't recommend a separated grip for everybody, but just to point out all the compensations one can make that would confound such an ancient method of evaluating clubs for a golfer. Trying on golf clubs is like trying on underwear...it's intimate, all your flaws are shown but it has to be the best fit for your money. Just sayin'.

[@drewparcel1727]

I was recently fitted and had the same thing happen to me. It was really stressful. I thought I had wasted a lot of money on new clubs that I couldn't hit. It took me a little while to figure out what the problem was. I had my clubs re-bent back to standard and it was a total game changer. When I had them fixed I found out some of the clubs were not bend to the requested line from the fitting. It would be a good idea to have them check when you pick up your new clubs. The tech also told me I need to have the lofts and lies checked every 6 months depending on how much you play. They said forged clubs are softer and have a tendency to move more than cast

[@mrtopramen]

I think the lie angle should be neutral still. Too much extra variables throughout the irons and wedges with an off angle. It makes bounce less useful and out of deep rough or sand delivering toe down or up could twist the face much easier when getting caught a little. The adjustments in swing are minimal with the correct lie angle to hit straight again that it's worth it to switch and remove that variable. Only a stubborn player is unwilling to let go of a faulty swing to improve in the long run.

[@jothkell9173]

I switch between a standard set, and a 3 degrees flat set. A Titleist fitter put me in standard, and I put myself in 3 flat because it put me in a better setup position. I can make a square divot with both, but I find that it's like Ian said, I am shallower and less Flippy with the flat clubs. I am tempted by a narrative that upright clubs make people stand up through impact and flip it, because that's what it seems to do for me I am 6 feet tall with a wrist-to-floor of only about 30in, so my build may just call for flat.

[@mariodee]

its nice to have confirmation about what i have been dealing with...ive been hooking `shots with my irons likes crazy...i have to hold off shots to keep them straight. my next set, i hope to find fitters as good as TXG

[@brendanduffy6495]

Great video again lads....how many players were wrongly fit on lie boards in the past it's frightening

[@atomant830]

Great video, I'm sure the new tech has improved the fitting process. People played good golf in the past and got good fits when the lie board was the standard method. I think both technologies should be used to find a matching result. I agree ball flight should be the major factor in making adjustments, true ball flights not just a computer similated representation of a shot's flight. Nobody questions the GC quad or Trackman data now, there was a time I'm sure no one questioned the lie board.

[@jeanregaudie]

Such a interesting video. I will get fitted for Mizuno in a couple weeks and I will keep that in mind. Thanks

[@philipnunn1816]

Wow this is scary..... on the ping measurement I am a white dot...... They would be hook machines.... Now I would not go beyond blue..... now using Cleveland Launcher CBX on a standard lie which go straight.... got rid of my blue/yellow dot ping G400/ G irons which were hook machines!!!

[@mcfly2727]

Properly brilliant vlog guys! 👍👍

[@gregowsik3848]

This is the age old question of fitting. should you fit to the swing or fit clubs that make you improve the swing? one potential problem with just changing the lie angle to fix ball flight, is that this probably doesn't work so well off side hill lies. You could give a good player clubs with almost any lie fit and they could figure out a way to make them work. That being said, ball flight is king and you guys understand that better than anyone.

[@parnopsiripornpak428]

One of the most interesting topic. I'm really surprised to see this video just a day after my friend fussing over lie angle and decided to have his irons adjusted. He seems to achieve good results just like Matt. Testing was done with a lie board on range without launch monitor. He was hitting a few and was like oohhh and ahhhh. BUT then I decided to hand him an iron that has not been adjusted but he still hit it just fine. I decided to not say anything and let it be as long as he's happy. So yeah, very interesting indeed. In the end I think it's about confidence influenced by a few can of beers. LOL Great video guys.

[@macgregormt]

Very insightful - I’m not completely savvy enough to really understand everything in this video, but it just tells me that a true fitter can help more than we thought. Question - historically I’ve been a 2 deg flat but bending my irons worked because I would often dig the heel into the ground especially in shorter shots. The flatter club has all but eliminated that flaw for me, and my full shots have not been impacted with a hook like demonstrated on the video- so I guess I am the guy that benefits?????

[@clubchampionmedia]

Sounds like it, if the ball is generally flying on line

[@joshualink6973]

If i miss it's a pull left with a closed face. Fitter recommended a 1 degree upright. They were ranked as one of the best in the area. Luckily I got enough good shaft info from the Mizuno 3D optimizer that I can order exactly what I want. Probably going to opt for a standard lie and maybe adjust later if the ball flight isn't what I want. Almost feel that if I don't go to you guys that I'd be wasting my money.

[@jgreen116]

Super insightful. Information that I’ve never heard until now. Thanks