NT Wright & Tom Holland • How St Paul changed the world (Full Show)

[@PremierUnbelievable]

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[@TheWorldTeacher]

Mark Matthew Pace That is rather PRESUMPTUOUS of you, wouldn’t you agree, Slave? Presumption is evil because when one is PRESUMPTUOUS one makes a judgement about a matter even though one has insufficient facts to support one’s position.

[@solmerlem1073]

@Mark Matthew Pace Mate you claims are just words with no evidence to support them. Read and take some history lesson..

[@TheWorldTeacher]

Mark Matthew Pace I regret to inform you, Slave, that your response is INCORRECT. 👎 The CORRECT answer is “Yes, Master”. ✅ Bless You Always, TYPICAL Arrogant Westerner!

[@solmerlem1073]

@Mark Matthew Pace so I can see that you think Jesus's story was made up and what is the froof to that?? Not from the bible definitely

[@TheWorldTeacher]

Brício Lube 🐟 02. UMA BREVE DESCRIÇÃO DE “VIDA”: Tudo, tanto perceptível quanto imperceptível - isto é, qualquer objeto grosseiro ou sutil dentro do universo material que possa ser percebido com os sentidos, mais o sujeito (o observador de todos os fenômenos) - é ao que a maioria das pessoas geralmente se refere quando usa o termo “DEUS”, uma vez que eles geralmente concebem o Criador Primordial como sendo a Pessoa Perfeita, e “Deus” (maiúscula) é um epíteto pessoal da Suprema Pessoa Divina. No entanto, de acordo com quase todos os sábios iluminados na história deste planeta, a Realidade Suprema é, muito mais logicamente, NADA Absoluto Impessoal (também chamado de "O Tao", "O Grande Espírito", "Brahman", "Consciência Pura", “Consciência Eterna”, “Existência Independente”, “A Base de Todo Ser”, “Natureza Não Causada”, “O Substrato Indiferenciado da Realidade”, “O Campo Unificado”, etc.). Porque o Absoluto Imanifestado é uma potencialidade criativa infinita, “ele” se atualiza como TUDO, na forma de universos temporários e cíclicos. No caso de nosso universo particular, residimos em um cosmos que consiste em espaço-tempo, matéria e energia, sem, é claro, negligenciar a dimensão mais fundamental da existência (que é a percepção consciente). Assim como uma faca não pode se cortar, nem a mente se compreender, nem os olhos se verem, O Absoluto não pode se conhecer (ou pelo menos objetivamente EXPERIÊNCIA a si mesmo), e assim, manifestou este universo fenomenal dentro de si com o propósito de experimentar a si mesmo , particularmente através da vida de seres autoconscientes, como humanos sofisticados. Portanto, este mundo de dualidade é realmente apenas um jogo da consciência dentro da Consciência. APARENTEMENTE, este universo fenomenal foi criado com o ato primordial (o chamado "Big Bang"), que começou, supostamente, como uma bola de luz minúscula e levemente desigual, que por sua vez, foi instigada, em última instância, por Extra-Temporal Supra-Consciência. Desde aquele primeiro ato, todo movimento ou ação que já ocorreu foi um resultado direto (embora principalmente indireto) dele. Assim como toda a energia existente no universo já esteve contida na singularidade incipiente, a Consciência Infinita estava NECESSARIAMENTE presente no início do universo e não é de forma alguma um epifenômeno de uma rede neural. Obviamente, a consciência individual é inteiramente dependente da faculdade neurológica de cada animal. “Sarvam khalvidam brahma” (‘tudo isso é de fato Brahman’) - não há NADA além do Ser Eterno, Consciência Consciente, Paz Sem Causa - e você é isso! Isso é expresso de forma mais sucinta como a equação matemática: E = A͚͚ (Tudo é Consciência Infinita). HUMANOS são essencialmente esta Paz Eternamente Consciente, agindo por meio de um organismo biológico extraordinariamente complexo composto de oito elementos rudimentares - pseudoego, intelecto, mente, sólidos, líquidos, gases, calor e éter (espaço tridimensional). Tudo o que pode ser percebido atualmente, tangível e imaterial, incluindo nós, seres humanos, é a culminação dessa manifestação primária. Essa é a explicação mais precisa e racional para “carma”. Tudo foi predeterminado desde a centelha inicial, e cada ação desde então se desdobrou como foi predestinada na ETERNIDADE, por meio de uma trajetória sempre em movimento. A noção de karma retributivo (“olho por olho”) é apenas isso - uma crença não verificada. Qualquer que seja o estado em que nos encontramos atualmente, é o resultado de dois fatores - nossa constituição genética na concepção e nosso condicionamento de vida presente (que pode incluir a mutação do código genético). Cada escolha já feita por cada animal humano e não humano foi determinada por esses dois fatores SÓ. Portanto, o livre-arbítrio é puramente ilusório, apesar do que muitos acreditam. Como consequência de residir neste universo dualístico, vivenciamos uma série de prazeres e dores temporais flutuantes ao longo da vida. Sofrimento e dor NÃO são sinônimos. O sofrimento é devido a um falso senso de autoria pessoal - a crença de que alguém é um autor separado e independente de seus pensamentos, emoções e ações, e que, da mesma forma, outras pessoas são seres autônomos, com vontade completa de fazer, pensar e sinta como eles desejam. Outra forma de afirmar o mesmo conceito é: o sofrimento é devido ao intelecto não querer ou não aceitar a vida conforme ela se manifesta. Existem cinco SINTOMAS de sofrimento, todos de natureza psicológica: 1. Culpa 2. Culpa 3. Orgulho 4. Ansiedade 5. Lamenta o passado e as expectativas para o futuro Esses tipos de sofrimento são o resultado da compreensão inadequada do que foi explicado acima - que a vida é uma série de acontecimentos e NÃO é causada pelos seres vivos individuais. Nenhuma criatura viva, incluindo o Homo sapiens, tem livre arbítrio pessoal. Existe apenas a Vontade Divina Universal em jogo, atuando através de todos os corpos, à qual William Shakespeare fez uma alusão famosa quando escreveu "Todo o mundo é um palco, e todos os homens e mulheres são meros jogadores". O organismo humano é essencialmente uma máquina biopsicológica, composta pelos cinco elementos materiais grosseiros e os três elementos materiais sutis, listados acima. O ANTÍDOTO para toda angústia mental é discernir entre sofrimento e dor, então alcançar o alívio completo desse estado miserável de existência, permanecendo no sentido primordial de ser (o "eu sou" não qualificado, que é a identidade central da pessoa). Esta é a mesma paz que é experimentada todas as noites durante a fase sem sonhos do ciclo do sono. Este "descanso imperturbável como Consciência Perfeita" pode ser praticado diariamente (ou mesmo de hora em hora), até que seja totalmente assimilado e integrado à vida. Cada pessoa, desde tempos imemoriais, tem procurado deliberada ou inconscientemente essa paz sem causa, mais comumente praticando um dos quatro sistemas de ioga (religião), ou então criando riqueza, ou em prazeres psicofísicos. Essa paz de espírito é freqüentemente referida como “felicidade”, “alegria” ou “amor”, e muitas vezes presumida como um estado temporal, uma vez que muitos presumem, incorretamente, que a paz contínua não está disponível nesta vida. Seguir a DHARMA (estruturas de religião autêntica e deveres sociais) não garante a obtenção da tranquilidade mental desejada, mas, mesmo assim, é benéfico para os indivíduos, uma vez que estabelece uma estrutura que permite que alguém se eleve mais facilmente além do mundano, animalesco plataforma (ou seja, as atividades básicas de comer, dormir e acasalar). Então, agora que você entende a vida, e a razão pela qual estamos sofrendo aqui neste (ostensivamente) universo material, você agora pode se libertar de todo sofrimento mental, CERTO? ERRADO! É imperativo se aproximar de um mestre espiritual autêntico para ajudá-lo a chegar à realização acima, desfazendo lentamente seu condicionamento passado. Assim como você foi condicionado durante uma vida inteira a pensar de uma maneira, você precisa ser re-condicionado a pensar de outra maneira (em alinhamento com sua identidade essencial como O Divino). Mesmo se você seguir de perto os preceitos de um professor competente, você ainda pode não chegar a uma compreensão completa da vida, mas se você for sincero, humilde e dedicado, certamente encontrará mais paz em sua vida diária - tudo o que foi DESTINADO a ocorrer, é claro. Além disso, se foi ordenado, você pode ter a sorte de receber disciplina de um dos poucos mestres espirituais totalmente iluminados atualmente na terra e, posteriormente, realizar os conceitos fundamentais acima mencionados, estudando diligentemente doutrinas autorizadas (especialmente esta "Folha de Instruções Finais para a Humanidade ”), servindo seu guru com grande reverência e devoção, e evitando deliberadamente danos indevidos a si mesmo, a outros indivíduos, à sociedade como um todo e ao ambiente natural, incluindo outras formas de vida. Mais benéfico, vá para o VEGAN! 🌱 Os melhores votos de uma jornada única e pessoal em direção à paz e à FELICIDADE puras! “Você é este universo e o está criando a cada momento porque, veja, ele começa agora. Não começou no passado. Não há passado. ” ************* “Um sábio rabino disse certa vez: 'Se eu sou eu porque você é você, e você é você porque eu sou eu, então eu não sou eu e você não é você'. Em outras palavras, não somos separados. ” ************* “Melhor ter uma vida curta cheia de coisas que você gosta de fazer do que uma vida longa passada de forma miserável”. ************* “O sentido da vida é a própria vida.” Professor Dr. Alan Wilson Watts, Filósofo Britânico-Americano. (01/06/1915 - 16/11/1973). "O que tu procuras, está a procurar-te." ************* “Você ainda não sabe? É a sua luz que ilumina os mundos. ” ************* “Pare de agir tão pequeno. Você é o universo em movimento extático. ” ************* "Nós somos um. Tudo no universo está dentro de você. Pergunte tudo de si mesmo. ” ************* “As lâmpadas são diferentes, mas a luz é a mesma.” Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī, Poeta, jurista, estudioso islâmico, teólogo e místico sufi muçulmano persa sunita. (30/09/1207 - 17/12/1273).

[@sharijohnson4024]

As an American born raised and served as a missionary of holiness, sanctification sector of Evangicalism I appreciation this much more intelligent, scolarly reasonable point of view. Having left Christianity because of the abuse and cruelty of my youth, this discussion opens a door that has been slowly opening as I hear these broader, more reasonable perspective of Christianity.

[@vonilao2209]

where is the cruelty and abuse

[@hannanolan8140]

@@vonilao2209worldwide fallen humanity Not our precious Lord and Saviour’s fault

[@cuebj]

@@vonilao2209 My reading is sharijohnson4024 suffered abuse and cruelty in their youth from Christians. Many examples of that. Quite reasonable from vast numbers of people to reject Christ because of the horrors done to them or that they saw done to others in the name of Christ.

[@cuebj]

@@hannanolan8140 Trash

[@LusoPatriot77]

What trash?

[@hermajesty2174]

It's such a delight watching Tom Wright reacting to all that Holland is saying - he's clearly just so happy to be able to converse with someone who has the same deep appreciation for the proper study of history that he does, not to mention someone who really understands the revolutionary impact that Paul's writings had on the world. His reaction at 13:55 to Holland calling Paul a depth charge is probably my favourite response!

[@Carol-Vaiphei]

I was having the same thought😄🤗

[@Jaden1249]

@@Carol-Vaiphei Isn't written iron sharpeneth iron!

[@shivabreathes]

I agree!

[@keithwolfe1942]

No sure about history accuracy, as he seems to get a very basic fact about Paul so very wrong. See Paul as a scribe, not apostle, and second his writing, for the most part, was dealing with local Congregational problems. He was the central figure of early Christianity.

[@wlcsp]

I could listen to these guys for another 10 hours. Excellent discussion.

[@ostkaaka]

@Matthew Pace who hurt you?

[@tbillyjoeroth]

Except that Tom Holland can't speak without stuttering.

[@tbillyjoeroth]

@Mark Matthew Pace Nobody cares where you live or how many kids you have. How is that pertinent? And "truth" and "lies" aren't capitalized words.

[@isaac-qe1wu]

What was the big take away for you 😏

[@sundarjohn9634]

@@tbillyjoeroth haha

[@josephmungai1799]

"......simultaneously, all his life is fulfilled, and all his life is shattered......" Wow. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@aeiouaeiou100]

These are profoundly interesting conversations to me as someone newly interested in Christianity after being raised secular. Thank you so much.

[@TectonicBadger]

Same here. I've read a few books by Tom Holland and Dominion in particular was incredibly eye-opening. I doubt I will ever consider myself a 'believer' in the traditional sense, but recongnising that my atheist humanist values are essential a rebranding of the latest Christian reformation has been utterly fascinating.

[@thegoodthebadandtheugly579]

I suggest reading philosophy and getting acquainted with history of thinking, philosophy, mythology and storytelling.. also history of archaeology to understand that Christianity and the Bible are in no way first to have done anything really.. there’s been all types of philosophies and mythologies and religions before Christianity and a lot of what has gone into Christianity has been borrowed and carefully collated not only in 1st century, but also all the way throughout the last 2000 years of engineering and refining Christianity (probably less so in the last 200 or so years though.. where things have become much more ‘set in stone’ and less ‘fluid’).. I really do recommend getting to know more about the Sumerian culture, Babylonian culture, Egypt, Ancient Greece and Rome.. and only then do you have any chance to understand the context and the true origin and source and what is and what is not actually ‘Christian’.. I also recommend listening to Bart Erhman.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@thegoodthebadandtheugly579 Actually being an Unlicensed Non-Certified historian (That sounds better than a history nut :-)) I actually have read, studied that. There are differences though between those pagan myths and Christianity. One being the Christian Myth, to paraphrase Tolkien is a myth that actually happened. It takes place in Time & Space. Over and over in the Gospels/Acts the phrases When someone was ruler, and that place was where this happened. There is a line from CS Lewis's "Surprised By Joy" that has always stuck with me. "Early in 1926 the hardest boiled of all the atheists I ever knew sat in my room on the other side of the fire and remarked that the evidence for the historicity of the Gospels was really surprisingly good. "Rum thing," he went on. "All that stuff of Frazer's about the Dying God. Rum thing. It almost looks as if it had really happened once.""

[@matthewstokes1608]

Tray Don’t Say - I am afraid this idea that you have to think outside of the box on a subject and stretch your imagination is proving too much for you…! You re the one who needs to read more outside of your comfort zone… You are hoodwinked and brainwashed - and convinced you know something. You clearly know ONE blinkered side and cling to it like a limpet… I hope you can open up - because you are heading in a benighted direction.

[@Jewzi123]

I don’t think that Christianity is humanist , Jesus was a racist Rabbi, his racism lead Paul to establish a new religion for non Jews and shifted the Roman world from worshiping a Roman man to worshiping a Jewish man ( via the same Myths ) while humanitarian Jews stand with Palestinians and they are the strongest supporters of Palestinian rights by Contrast evangelical Christianity universally support the oppression of Palestinians and are the strongest supporters of Zionism yet they claim their values are humanist . this example question such claims .

[@entrepreneurshipworld1]

The anchor is so good at his work and knows so much himself ! Well done !

[@PremierUnbelievable]

relaxthenrefresh thanks!

[@frostfox1208]

I sat in the library in Victoria BC reading “Paul”. I’ve been reading for the past week very slowly because I want to grasp what I’m reading. I have learned so much. Thank you. Alan

[@silvaterese6052]

Meeting of two sharp, intellectual minds. A rare treat. Thank you.

[@jsharp1701]

Wright is such a prolific writer and is constantly speaking and lecturing and doing things like this program. And yet he finds time to read - and understand - dozens of books concurrent with all that. Such a mind.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Ghost writers

[@mamajo5867]

Wow that was so incredible listening to!!! I’ve found a new interest in history after growing up quite ignorant of it. And as a Christian I’m finding out how crucial it is to know your history in order to have an appropriate perspective of the Bible and Christianity as a whole.

[@food4thort]

It amazes me that so many operate on faith and ignorance - devoid of historical and/or doctrinal contextual knowledge.

[@mamajo5867]

@@food4thort everyone operates in some level of ignorance. Faith or no faith. It’s just part of people learning to grow up. Not enough people have had to face reality enough to even be aware that they are ignorant. If someone doesn’t teach them, and they don’t think it’s important enough to look and learn on their own? What are you gonna do? Can’t make a horse drink water but you can salt his oats and make him thirsty.

[@mamajo5867]

@@food4thort I think it has to do with our culture and school system being to comfortable and not grounded enough in reality 😕 no one taught me anything about history or shared stories with me growing up. And frankly I didn’t care about learning. Just getting good enough grades to memorize answers to tests to appease my parents who I didn’t even have a relationship with. It’s all messed up for a lot of people.

[@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401]

​@@mamajo5867 But that's trickery, isn't it?

[@brianwatts9896]

every time you drive your vehicle across a bridge or through a tunnel, you are acting on faith that it is a trustworthy structure, because we haven't met the architects or teams of construction workers and evaluated their fitness and capability for creating such strucutres prior to driving across them or through them. We probably haven't certified that the city has properly audited the structure, either. We just use reasonable evidence of other cars before us passing through unscathed, and take a reasoned gamble that we might be able to also have similar success. The Bible asks no one to put their mind in a waste bin, it asks each person to examine the evidence and make reasonable conclusions. I Jn 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life- the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us- that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

[@roseannapresley762]

I love the two “Toms” and I love Paul, too. Fascinating intellectual discussion! Understanding Christianity strictly by the human mind - bypassing the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth’s unveiling of the eyes - would probably be an impossible feat. Aren’t the eyes of the world blinded to this type of deep understanding?

[@mackdmara]

Current culture is almost always choosing one of three Ancient Societies to romanticize, Egypt, Greece, & Rome. What happens when you romanticize something? You air brush out all those things you hated & highlight the best points. It is the opposite of finding the reality of it. The reality of all of them is barbaric compared to modern times. Paul was dealing with people you & I would constantly be offended by, & he shows such great ethic, given by Christ. In a world where being different would get you stoned, crucified, beheaded, flayed alive, etc., it is all the more impressive. Great talk.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

Absolutely!

[@dmclives]

Well said

[@abbeymaeliam1]

This is an interesting idea. Do you mind explaining for me in what ways these three cultures are idealised respectively today?

[@mackdmara]

Liam Johnson Media, Philosophy, & Political believes. Stargate, Percy Jackson, & Harry Potter (to a lesser degree) are all media related things. Also, anything related to Atlantis is from all three. It is a well know set of mythologies, that requires little new material to market. Philosophically speaking stoicism is making a comeback in pop culture. Of course, the Republic is always worth the read. Any number of other names (most of which I have to look up how to spell) show up. Epicurean philosophy is almost always talked about, but not always in vogue. This, of course, is also intertwined within any media or political discourse using these. Politics is just clear really. The ideas are through out the political sphere, due to the fact your personal philosophical view informs your actions & morals. That blended with whatever media has influenced you, lays out your political views often. Some people go with their gut, but they say these influence them. A large amount of these ideas are not new, but come from the Rome or Greece. The Republic we live in, the democracy everyone thinks it is, etc.. The epic is brought out, but the history is forgotten. We do this to our detriment. Not to say you should not read the originals, but the pop culture usage glosses over things. Things like a stoic killing himself because he told the Emperor he had deaden himself to that beyond his control. Of course, he told it to a madman & that didn't help either. Still, I could not accept stoicism as a way of life, it does have some good points. God Bless

[@abbeymaeliam1]

mackdmara Very interesting, however I would not say many people, especially of my generation, are stoic in their approach to life; Epicurean, yes, but there is no sense in which millennials realise that they are owed very little. Also, there is very little discipline or self control in them. But you may be referring to some other aspect, or to the intelligentsia?

[@Apol-los]

I'd loved NT Wright's posture was not to convert Tom but to join together in a conversation about how awesome Jesus is to work through Paul. He who is not my enemy is my friend. And through these affirming conversations it is the hope Tom falls in love with what Jesus did for him and there is no debate to him personally that Jesus is Lord.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

absolutely!

[@denverbritto5606]

Jesus is MORE awesome for the poor and the downtrodden, and all those who're helped by religious organisations and who find religion to be a source of comfort.

[@pjclutterbuck230473]

Only in Calvinism, which is one minority stream on the fringes of Christianity. There are other ways of looking at these questions and resolving the paradoxes.

[@ohyeah3365]

Austin James I agree! When Paul spoke at Mars Hill he drew the Roman citizens in by finding the common beliefs they shared. When we have hearts for justice, God's salvation is close by.

[@jonatanayala807]

Interesting to find you on this KZbin comment section Austin. I hope you're doing ok in Lubbock. Cheers.

[@omac3553]

If only Paul had known the impact he was going to have! I think he had no idea of the scale! Big respect to the man, having endured all the hardship he did and what he ignited!

[@carlosreira413]

I don't know what to say other than, Praise God! So many things coming together here, faith, reason, history, apologetics, even healthy skepticism, in short a desire to see truth: the New Testament for what it really is, and its main author for who he really is.

[@PhilAlumb]

I enjoyed this discussion for many reasons, but especially because of the kind respectfulness of all 3 men.

[@jsonhealer]

listening 3 years later to two great minds. The entire conversation is powerful. NT wright was awakened and wanted to get in on the conversation. 14:24 - 17 mins is so engaging, exciting, loaded with so much truth.

[@JC-pu3vl]

That was a fantastic discussion. Like someone else said, I could listen to them talk for another 10hrs.!

[@agrainofsalt4889]

Thanks, a great conversation

[@adrianmack8537]

What a delightful, insightful conversation, thank you to you all 😊👍👏👏👏

[@MariuszWodarczyk]

I hope Tom Holland will have a true Homecoming one day :)

[@thatguyk.5306]

You have no idea how much of a pun that is for Marvel fans

[@1969cmp]

👍

[@BibleLosophR]

i get the Spider man reference, but does it also mean the historian in the video is not a Christian? Or considers himself only as a cultural Christian?

[@thegnome73]

@@BibleLosophR correct. At least, that's what was said in the beginning of the discussion in the video

[@bigdave1579]

@ So are you are saying that Tom Holland is being a hypocrite to sell his book? If so, is that common among those of your "fold"?

[@ryPish]

Hi, Paul VanderKlay sent me here! And I must say this was a really interesting conversation.

[@iansarantos2930]

Same!

[@Btn1136]

Yep. Paul sent me here. Great guy. He’s nonstop content, commentary, and critique.

[@_BirdOfGoodOmen]

@@Btn1136 he's still at it!!!!

[@BaztonTV]

This was one of the most educational conversations I've eavesdropped in on. I have been studying the Bible intensely for nearly 2 decades. Paul's epistles have been a nightmare for me in terms of trying to discern an interpretation within the context of the world in which his epistles were written. However, after watching this, I feel a lot of Paul's teachings will be much clearer. Thank you for this Unbelievable?.

[@fraukatze3856]

Bazton I agree

[@eamonnmurphy5385]

@@fraukatze3856 The easy way to interpret Pauls writings is to ask the church that has the original interpretation, the Catholic church

[@1969cmp]

@@eamonnmurphy5385 ....but not The Roman Catholic church 😎

[@eamonnmurphy5385]

@@1969cmp Paul was a member of the original Church which was the only Christian Church in existence. It went on within maybe 50 years to be known as the Catholic(means Universal) So, Paul was a member (in effect) of the Catholic Church! Why would we not rely on that Church for its interpretation of what Paul's writings say in preference to interpretations of individuals over 1500 years later? They knew him, they understood him. He believed in their beliefs! They passed down these understandings!

[@1969cmp]

@@eamonnmurphy5385 Paul was a member of the original church for which the church governing body was based in Jerusalem. I'm fine to use the term catholic but more accurate is simply Christian. The Roman Catholic church has a series of mishaps mostly based on power and poor theology as well as historical revisionism. And this was a problem from early on when the church in Rome was an outpost as most Christians were in the east part of the empire, and as mentioned earlier, the governing authority of the church was the Council in Jerusalem, for which Paul was under.

[@howarddavis638]

Thank you Justin, Tom & Tom for this remarkable conversation!

[@SimpleHumman]

mind blown! Thank you for putting these two men together in one room and letting them speak!

[@e.z.6916]

Unbelievable batting 1000. Great show, great guest. Must say, the host is brilliant and perfectly suited to moving guests with excellent questions and insight.

[@harveylopezt]

This hour passed flying. We could hear this two great historians talking for several hours. Please make it happen, and heartfelt thanks for this content.

[@gkseeton]

This is one of those rare and most excellent conversations. I hope to get everyone to listen to it!

[@rufinogarcia7724]

Thanks. Beautiful message

[@franzjohnston]

Just come across this talk...SO refreshing to hear Intelligent and intellectual conversation with two of my favourite people. Just got Paul a biography, and reading through In the shadow of the sword....these guys are simply the best. Thank you for uploading! Thank you Justin for allowing this dialogue to flow so well, you really have got a great balance!

[@peterspaulding5584]

The mediation of the conversation is pretty good. He seems to know their interests so well that he can have the answer each others' questions.

[@woo_doggy]

thank you for this incredible education

[@karpadnechmad]

As a secular jew I approve of this wonderful conversation

[@imnotanalien7839]

Fascinating discussion… the time flew by!

[@alyswilliams9571]

Excellent. I have listened to this post the publication of Tom Holland's Dominion which I have just read. He has become one of my heroes but a huge thank you to both Toms for a stimulating conversation and to Unbelievable for hosting it.

[@michaeladekunle3857]

This roundtable discussion is just absolutely beautiful ❤️. The guests and host are just beautiful in their thoughts and speech. What a blessing. Thank you guys.

[@Lakeslover1]

Brilliant conversation. Learned a lot !

[@Carol-Vaiphei]

This conversation is so full of passion and awe. Thank you a million times and more... I really need to read my Bible with dedication again🙌

[@kingfergus55]

Both of them are brilliant! Tom Holland is a top Historian which requires staying objective and not moralizing or giving his personal opinion. No doubt he right that Christinaity has had a huge influence on Western history even it today secular world when many people are no longer Christians.

[@JoseChung21]

Justin 1 hour does an injustice to these topics.

[@PilgrimMission]

Tom Holland apparently is not a Christian but seems to understand better than most Christians what the cross actually means.

[@iain5615]

10camels many people do not truly study and analyse what they believe in. Christianity is a key component to understanding the Roman empire and the Middle East both of which Tom Holland has studied in depth. As such it should not be surprising. The great thing about Tom is that he tries and succeeds not to impose his own narrative on his findings. As such, here he sounds very much a Christian because he does not scoff at the beliefs he is discussing.

[@Falcon988]

10camels , Something something “Not everyone who calls me Lord,” something...

[@gucker07]

Welcome to the 21st century. Christianity is alive and well but working underground.

[@chewyjello1]

I was brought up in a fundamentalist home and never felt a thing from the dogmas I was taught....yet listening to him I was both in awe and almost brought to tears at once!

[@narminagasimova1952]

@@gucker07 Right to the target!

[@MrSpicytacosauce]

A conversation between Wright and Peterson would be amazing!!

[@DZ-yk2ew]

As a former Christian, Wright is probably one of the more reasonable and erudite Christians out there. Both he and Peterson are stuck in pretty rigid thinking though, which constrains their intelligence, that's for sure.

[@potkas7]

That would be an interesting discussion. Wright represents the Historical-Literal, and Peterson the Psychological-Allegorical interpretation of the Bible texts. It would be an interesting wrestling match between Religious and Scientific analysis of the same stories.

[@elel2608]

William Oarlock Let me guess, you are the savior of mankind? When is your book coming out?

[@elel2608]

D Z How do you judge if someone is “rigid” in their thinking? Wright has been under fire for his views on the atonement, which is pretty orthodox Protestant theology.

[@jonatanayala807]

Lol to your comment.

[@yelenaangeleski3354]

NT Wright is such an absolute teddybear! 🙂 As the atheist German philosopher Habermas put it a couple of decades ago, all our morality derives from the Hebrew prophets and the New Testament. Everything else is postmodern chatter.

[@NinoAgha]

Our morality comes from God thru prophet Adam first and then all the prophets

[@jonathansimmonds3758]

A mind to mind meeting. How refreshing! Wonderful to have such a broad understanding of history that connections are made, and parallels are drawn between Christianity, Liberalism, Desmond Tutu, ISIS, Judaism etc etc. with such ease. And no one gets hot under the collar or 'offended'! A rare treat.

[@ecbrooks33]

What a great conversation! Fantastic! You need to get Tom and Tom back on the show again as soon as you can!

[@RM-fs8ub]

One of the few talks I don't get tired of listening to again and again - and like Tom Holland, I was quite fascinated by the Greek gods and the Romans. And like him, the story"Quo Vadis?" which I read in childhood, freaked me out when I realised that the Roman world was definitely not one I would have liked to live in. It is with a lot of reading and studying that I now see Paul as the moulder of the world that I was born in...we are still enjoying the fruits of the civilisation he helped bring to birth - as long as we try to better understand the words he wrote the better we can catch the fire of his vision.

[@josepholugbami794]

This has definitely explained so much of the mindset of the apostle, Paul. A very deep and respective conversation

[@shostycellist]

This is a video to listen to multiple times to really absorb it.

[@zachrhoads3644]

thank you for this thought-provoking dialogue. Loving the dialectic between colleagues.

[@kattenihatten]

What a lovely conversation! This is the best thing I have heard/watched all year.

[@RobRobertson1000]

Thank you, such wonderfully respectful conversations are all too rare.

[@vovomorgan]

Now THAT is what I call a Big Conversation. Oh, and yes, Justin, it genuinely was fascinating. Edit: Not Big, just Unbelievable. My bad. But the discussion was truly interesting. Thank you.

[@KelvinKaranja]

Great minds. Thank you so much for clarifying my faith for me.

[@nvision26]

This is an amazing conversation. And Jordan Peterson really really needs to talk with Tom Wright

[@robertmae3416]

I've had the same thought. Wouldn't that be an amazing discussion. We can hope.

[@TheWolfgangfritz]

Nick Vis - Yes Nick, good of you to see this and also mention it. I cringe when I listen to Peterson concerning Christianity. He states early in his "Maps for Meaning" that he just cannot accept the Virgin Birth nor the Resurrection, nor of course understands that a new nature, a new inner creation, a new heart is required and this can only be given by Christ if we see him for what he is!

[@_jamieknowles_]

This comment is now on almost every video. JP is going to have a busy year it seems

[@1969cmp]

....and throw Ravi Zecharias to help JP jump the gap from mythology to history.

[@AdamSmith-ec5nv]

@Khalid Ibn Alwaleed I believe he is referring to the content and not the fact that they agree. Not hard to find white Europeans who don't agree with all this though.

[@ocrancienthistory3326]

That was such a great conversation. Could have done with another hour of it.

[@ClaimClam]

THIS

[@foxtonstreet]

Could listen to these two talk for hours.

[@edh.9584]

We do owe it to Paul ... and to Christianity ... but ultimately to Christ.

[@SimpleplansbyD]

These discussions certainly help me get through work.

[@qazyman]

What an excellent conversation.

[@MrSpicytacosauce]

Respectable Agnostic.

[@scottragsdale8279]

Excellent program. Thank you.

[@situmapw8219]

Wow...what an enlightening discussion

[@dawnmuir5052]

Excellent conversation!! Both so knowledgeable, generous and civil. Please do this again!

[@benjaminledford6111]

Excellent conversation and Justin, you are simply a top-notch host. Always impressed.

[@jankragt7789]

excellent. Thank you Justin Brierley. I'm reading Wright's book on Paul now. Good discussion; good pair.

[@LifeStrikeCoach]

Justin, you've got to do more of this!

[@reayres]

just watching this 5 years later. What a fantastic conversation - I wish I had the opportunity to sit and listen to this in person (I would contribute nothing to the conservation however)! I wonder if I see this a bit differently now that I am watching this after the time that Tom Holland has professed to returning to Christianity and is a believer? Even 5 years ago I saw in the notes he was an agnostic but he seems so excited about Christianity in general. Wonderful.

[@John-qo6fs]

Jay Smith mentioned about Tom Holland and his book 'In the Shadow of the Sword'. I ordered right away and reading it now. It is worth and I really admire Tom Holland.

[@tonymercer7759]

You should buy Holland's "Dominion" as well.

[@talita191]

That is the true conversation on intelectual level.... it is a hony for my mind and soul....thsnk

[@danthefrst]

Great conversation as usual. This was a easy listen. Very nice. Thanks

[@julieredmond5192]

I only wish this was longer. Please do another one!

[@ClaimClam]

agree

[@silvaterese6052]

I have just finished Wright's SIMPLY CHRISTIAN. It is almost as good as Lewis' Mere christianity. If only he had talked on Satan and his deception , it would have been a great classic. Thank you, Wright.

[@sdmiglietti]

Awesome conversation. Congratulations. Praise the Lord.

[@dimitrilalushi4693]

Excellent discussion! Thanks for giving the opportunity to watch such discussions for free!

[@clarekuehn4372]

Great! 😍😍 Truly amazing. Thanks, all!

[@edh.9584]

Tom Holland is wonderful! He sticks to his discipline of history, he sticks to historical explanations, which is fine.

[@br0manumatic]

One of my favorite interviews by Justin (or ever). I've watched at least 3 times and always surprised how good it is. Excellence from all 3 participants.

[@diwarkar]

Awesome discussion between N T Wright and Tom Holland and Justin Brierley a great host. I have listened to this show 7 times and hung on to every word. Very edifying. Thanks

[@leedufour]

Thanks guys!

[@daminsoogles4962]

What a fantastic discussion, two scholars both historians one a christian and other non christian . I could have gone for couple of hours more listening to them . How bible has impacted our world , would also suggest book from Vishal Mangalwadi , he covers also how bible have impacted India . West have taken their world for granted .

[@rjlecuona]

That book sounds interesting! I’ll get it

[@lw3646]

Great discussion..

[@davidconnon1214]

Thank you for an excellent program.

[@SirLangsalot]

Justin is a very good interviewer and host.

[@ayolovephat]

Imagine having this kind of conversation between N.T. Wright and Dr. W. Lane Craig and/or having all three of them at once. Maaan, that would be gloriously tantalizing.

[@steveforks9698]

Excellent conversation 👍

[@callums6570]

This perfect. Two great historians.

[@therealmrfishpaste]

Wright studied classics and history at Oxford...

[@callums6570]

Colin Dowson ok Colin 😂

[@edgarrenenartatez1932]

"In almost every way I am Christian." Says the agnostic Tom Holland. Wow!

[@hannanolan8140]

Almost won’t cut it

[@talkingthapelo]

I'd love to see Justin, Tom and J Peterson sit down together.

[@WilliamBrownGuitar]

Wonderful discussion - could listen for many more hours. This format is really excellent. IMO, having two great Christian intellectuals is better than the atheist debates which rarely can go very deep (how can they when the two scholars cannot agree on even the most basic, elementary premises and ideas?

[@amsirap]

That is because atheism: has no great story, no great leader, no great central teaching, no absolute truth and has no ethical roots!

[@jamesacooke32]

William Brown Tom Holland isn’t a Christian

[@jamesacooke32]

Lynn Adamson 0:53 (intro)

[@1000whispering]

Tom Holland isn't a Christian. And when he said he was he meant it in a cultural sense. I think it was nice seeing a discussion rather than debate regardless of religious belief. They should do more discussions, with people with less radically opposing positions. I'm an atheist, but I can appreciate Christian thought. And I love the Bible. So I love discussing it.

[@lookeshdas455]

@@1000whispering wow, I love you bro. Quite rare to see an Atheist like you 🙏

[@peterjongsma2754]

Tom Holland proves Christianity changes societies and makes all more compassionate .Not just devout believers

[@davidfrisken1617]

It is a shame it took 1900 years for the "Compassionate" part to surface.

[@fogboquiz5700]

@@davidfrisken1617 Not sure you have watched the whole video at the time of posting that.

[@joserangel7346]

@@davidfrisken1617 yeah... obviously you didnt watch the video.

[@davidfrisken1617]

@@joserangel7346 I stopped at 52:55, so not quite to the end. What did I miss?

[@joserangel7346]

@@davidfrisken1617 Acording to your previous post... everything.

[@ThePclayton]

This was great! Thank you.

[@dartharpy9404]

Thanks

[@davidhawley1132]

Tom is exactly right: the incarnation is a singularity, more than if aliens had landed on the state legislatures of every country, more than the wildest imaginations of people from the dawn of time.

[@travellingmac2177]

Great discussion. I have learnt a lot. Thank you.

[@remalim9471]

What a delight this is.

[@kameelfarag1981]

This was fantastic, years of learning filtered in less than one hour. I dare to say that Tom Holland a non Christian historian is an asset to Christianity as Tom Wright the Christian is a genuine Christian historian and theologian.

[@PennySmart]

Very stimulating conversation. Will try and discover more about this Mediaeval meaning of "supernatural". Thank you for posting it.

[@peterjongsma2754]

St. Paul was living in a powerful victorious invincible joy.The Kingdom of the risen Christ and the fulfillment of the promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

[@ashleysmith640]

Peter Jongsma a great way to put it 😊

[@markbeltra4927]

Paul. Was a charlatan who changed stories and for what he deserved

[@anglophilebhadralokchronic4727]

@@markbeltra4927 don't speak like a muslim

[@terryspainhour1256]

I read Tom Holland's book 'In the Shadow of the Sword'. It was worth every penny. Nice work.

[@markbeltra4927]

This is one the most BS book where he is suffering from. Confirmation bias

[@nijoyjohn4366]

This was like Light for me in terms of understanding a lot of things in NT