Michael Ruse vs John Lennox • Science, faith, and the evidence for God

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John Lennox, Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University & Michael Ruse, Professor of Philosophy at Florida State University, go head to head in the 4th episode of The Big Conversation.
Filmed in front in front of a live audience in London, they debate science, faith and the evidence for God.
The Big Conversation is a unique video series from Unbelievable? featuring world-class thinkers across the Christian and atheist community. Exploring science, faith, philosophy and what it means to be human.
Listen to more sparkling conversations every week via the Unbelievable? podcast www.premierchristianradio.com/...
The Big Conversation series:
Jordan Peterson & Susan Blackmore • Jordan Peterson vs Sus...
Steven Pinker & Nick Spencer • Steven Pinker vs Nick ...
Derren Brown & Rev Richard Coles • Derren Brown & Rev Ric...
John Lennox & Michael Ruse • Michael Ruse vs John L...
Daniel Dennett & Keith Ward • Daniel Dennett vs Keit...
Peter Singer & Andy Bannister - • Andy Bannister vs Pete...
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[@jagdishadhikari1137]

Thanks

[@nevious1982]

Do you have the transcript for this? English is not my natives and some of this is really first and not that clear to me.

[@lindanewsom7496]

Brewer2nd I will

[@jyotsnaranipatro2217]

A very convincing argument of Lennox jyotsna

[@peterparker1738]

website does ont work anymore! I want the q and a.... :...(

[@locgoblin3079]

Get john Lennox on the Joe Rogan podcast

[@julieredmond5192]

What a concept! John Lennox and Joe Rogan! Could Joe curtail his F-bombs for three hours?

[@jimbehr2291]

Lennox would end Rogan. He wouldn't be able to take it....and I'd love to that p.o.s. Rogan have his brain melted, literally.

[@bamlakfeyessa5354]

yesssss please

[@Matthew24.4]

Rogan is a puppet for his masters. You’re never going to find a genuine truth teller on his show and that includes actors like Snowden.

[@LBLB420]

Definitely

[@stsavioursyouthbournemouth6566]

Can we take a moment to appreciate two brilliant minds engaging with divisive issues in a way which is respectful, academic and professional. Also props to the moderator, he does a really good job of directing the conversation

[@olebilly]

Respectful? The dude on the left was laughing at the dude on right. He was also breathing so heavy and nervously when as he tries hars not to insult. Rewatch it.

[@Raydensheraj]

@@olebilly No wonder... imagine listening to Lennox... indoctrination by his parents from early on, his culture in England convinced him Caucasian Jesus is his preferred invisible supernatural superbeeing...growing up spoiled by daddies money and connections he was pampered with his Oxford education...and now he uses his degree in mathematics to grift of easy Christian targets who treat the 0.0001% of PhD carriers that believe like they are superior to the entire Scientific consensus...he can sell his poor Creationist Pseudoscience books to his sycophants ( I rather spend my money on books written by scientists who don't have the time for Religious apologetics because they are doing actual Science ) for that xtra Cash...making easy money is the real Religion of Lennox. At least he is obvious and doesn't hide his addiction of rehashing old Paley type arguments for cash and the admiration of the Scientific illiterate church goers who don't understand that science started improving our life's as soon as it removed itself away from God and the main philosophy became methodological naturalism...Karl Popper's falsification, Thomas Kuhn...Charles Darwin erasing the last vestiges of Creationism. Lennox is unimportant to the field of Mathematics. He is a rather conservative christian apologists rehashing old Paley and Lewis stuff while his flock thinks he is awesome...an educated individual that at least knows the basics of Philosophy and keeps up with modern Science should easily refute Lennox.

[@DarthMakroth]

@@Raydensheraj you seem not to like John much..

[@checko44]

@@olebilly Agreed. I lost count of the straw men he constructed. Otherwise, it would seem to me to be like debating Jerry Lewis.

[@stsavioursyouthbournemouth6566]

@Jyue An whilst there may be some truth to that, that isn't really what they are debating here

[@EmilyRose1]

John Lennox is remarkable! Him explaining faith and science in an articulate and understandable way

[@archbeast2]

But Lennox abandons evidence for theology when it gets tricky. He used to be my goto Christian for my belief but Ehrman counters most of his positions using historical scholarship.

[@nicobeukes542]

​@@archbeast2 In case you haven't noticed, John Lennox is a professor of mathematics and philosophy of science, not a historian. If you want answers to Ehrman's questions or assertions, you'll have to look to a historian. That's just common sense.

[@musicmasterplayer4532]

@@archbeast2 Ehrman has trouble of his own.

[@mpeters99]

@@archbeast2Ehrman has been shown to lie and mislead people on the New Testament

[@charlescoryn9614]

@@musicmasterplayer4532....... You ALL have trouble! Please see "Guide to the Gods", by Marjorie Leach, 1992........ more than 800 pages of gods and goddesses that the humans have 'created'. Or maybe they are all 'real'?......... Or..........

[@le-manu298]

So good to see you again Dr. Lennox.

[@pasteghost428]

Prof Lennox and Prof Ruse were absolutely charming. Its so refreshing to see a friendly and delightful debate from John's opposition for a nice change of pace from the hostile and arrogant ones.

[@Atreus21]

Agreed.

[@wilhelmlorenz5852]

👉😀👈👉 AMEN 👈❤️👉 BROTHER 👈On That 👉ONE 👈👉 RESPECTFUL PEOPLE 👈👉 BOTH of THEM 👈🤗👉☝️☝️🕊️☝️☝️☝️👈😇👉🌀🌀🌀🦜☝️☝️☝️👈

[@AtamMardes]

If religious fairy tales can fool an educated Prof Lennox, imagine what it could do to ordinary folks.

[@johnjaso385]

@@AtamMardes a fool in his heart says there’s no God.

[@AtamMardes]

@@johnjaso385 The real fool is the one who believes the content of a primitive book just because it claims itself to be the holy truth.

[@philochristos]

I have a lot of respect for Justin. He's wearing purple pants, and that takes a lot of confidence.

[@camwg]

The Mike Myers of religious broadcasting.

[@vovomorgan]

Difficult to refute the Argument from Purple Trousers....

[@LeviPaladin]

Probably color blind and agnostic about the color purple.

[@adammeade2300]

"He has not given us a spirit of fear" - ;P

[@davedevaughn9006]

Laughing hysterically! Great comment/observation!

[@theohuioiesin6519]

I praise God for Lennox. He made me grow up and leave a cult because I realised I wasn’t thinking but was brainwashed.

[@Glasstable2011]

What cult were you in?

[@JamesBrown-fd1nv]

​@@Glasstable2011Most likely scientific atheism

[@Glasstable2011]

@@JamesBrown-fd1nv wow this is an old comment I had completely forgotten about. I am interested in your response though… I’ve never heard the term scientific atheism before. What do you mean by it and why do you think it’s a cult?

[@Shytot-1]

@@Glasstable2011 If you are waiting for an answer, please don't hold your breath. I think the cult he was in was either Christianity or religion in general.

[@Viiola24]

@@Shytot-1Christianity a cult? 😅Please explain.

[@RandallChase1]

I love that the majority of the comments on this video are so kind and thoughtful. Anytime I get to listen to John Lennox is good day. ❤

[@ItsMisterWilliams]

He's such a skilled moderator.

[@jestanuthername]

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to both gentlemen. Such a friendly discussion. Lennox makes such a powerful proponent of the gospel message. I love listening to him, I see a lot of CS Lewis in him. “ I see God every day in the normal things of life.”

[@Netomp51]

The last analogy blew my mind 😢 God bless you Mr John Lennox, Truly man of God

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

Can you tell me the time stamp in the vid where he talks about that analogy, pls?

[@DolioFoilio]

​@@mcfunthomas_mc @56:15

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@DolioFoilio Thx for the time stamp. I listened and it didn't blow my mind. 1. So called Heaven is supposed to be a place where people can have free will and still not sin. This questions GOD's ability to create a world like that in the first place. 2. Unlike GOD, loving parents don't act like distant parents. They interact, communicate and explain life to kids. They show, correct, appreciate and thank their children.

[@tyler0267]

@@mcfunthomas_mc47:35 this is what you should really listen too if you aren’t a believer this is what brings me to tears thinking of. Jesus is the King of Kings❤

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@tyler0267 I listened to it and still find it a cop out. Putting trust in a myth of resurrection is an intellectual suicide.

[@Netomp51]

The ending is so profound, it seemed like God talking to his disobedient son who is not mature enough to understand what love means for your children ❤ God Bless You.

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

Last time I checked god's love in the Bible, it was a toxic one. Anything changed since? Hmm

[@Netomp51]

@@mcfunthomas_mc seems your naive terrenal mind hasn’t changed, Jesus was toxic to you ?

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@Netomp51 Let my mind tell you something then. Your reply contains a few logical fallacies: 1.. Strawman Fallacy: you misrepresented my statement by bringing up Jesus, creating a distorted version of my opinion/argument. I never mentioned Jesus in my initial statement about God’s love being toxic. Did I? 2.. False Analogy: you compare God’s love to Jesus', assuming they are interchangeable in the context of toxicity. This oversimplification ignores the nuances of the discussion. 3.. Ad Hominem (implied): The phrase “it seems your naive terrestrial mind hasn’t changed” attacks my character and dismisses my perspective rather than addressing the substance of my statement. To sum up: chill, man, and feel free to try wiser.

[@Netomp51]

@@mcfunthomas_mc why do you presume you are wiser if your very first statement assumes that all portrayals of Gods love are toxic ? You started naive and later you used chatGPT 😂😂😂 also seems that ChatGPT doesn’t know that Jesus is God 😂😂😂 what a kid

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@Netomp51 Exactly, I commented by saying that God's love is toxic. However, instead of referring to my 3 points, you made even more logical errors. 1. Saying that Jesus is God is NOT EQUAL to saying that God is Jesus. If you don't understand that, not my problem. I can only advise you take some theology and philosophy classes. Even ChatGPT can explain you more as it seems to know more than you on this. But I still think a theologian can give you a better, more human-like response. :) 2. Me saying that you should try wiser is irrelevant to and doesn't mean me being wiser than you. That is called non sequitur, another logical fallacy on your part. :) You're good at committing logical fallacies , it seems so again, try wiser.

[@paulodeleon1715]

My man John Lennox! God bless him for the courage to talk about that. He is such a great inspiration. You cannot really bend the truth and constant.

[@garyroberts3859]

Hahaha...it’s not truth honey...it’s faith with no evidence

[@garyroberts3859]

@Patricio Chauvet Gonzalez just don’t like to think of people so deluded and brainwashed whether as children or by missionaries That can believe the rubbish in the Bible ...and the messages are so contradictory, it was obviously written by Iron Age men in a state of confusion. It’s obvious to me it was put together to keep people under control...that’s it. It’s easy...there is no God, no Jesus, no heaven, no hell, no Satan, no Angels and certainly no afterlife

[@garyroberts3859]

@Patricio Chauvet Gonzalez and you believe all this mythical nonsense, you’re welcome to it...you have absolutely no evidence there is life after death...you’ve simply been brainwashed, and you have the Brian of a 14thC. Medieval peasant. This is the 21st C. We know so much more now and people are leaving Christianity in droves.

[@garyroberts3859]

@Jonathan Billings but taking the overall population growth worldwide ...the ratio of Christian growth is smaller. And the places where Christianity is growing is in the 3rd world countries...on the continents of... South America Asia Africa Where people are brainwashed by sweet talking missionaries offering gifts and health checks...why wouldn’t they believe??? In the first world Christianity is falling because the people there are better educated and believe the science not the words of Iron Age goat herders in the Bible.

[@garyroberts3859]

@R.N Radiv. sorry you’re so wrong...Mankind has invented Around 9000 gods in all the tribes and civilizations in human existence I presume you are an atheist about all of those gods...your God is simply one more invention , the purpose?...invented my men to keep people under control. Your god was supposed to have created everything...so your telling me if you believe in him , he created billions of stars and billion more planets Simply to have one species on a tiny planet worship him?????...that’s crazy if you care to think about it. We know so much more now about the universe that it’s impossible to think there is a “being” or an “entity” , up there controlling everything. It’s impossible for me to imagine anyone who questions religion to believe in Christianity . The Bible is full of contradictions . This god of yours loves us so much he wiped out civilizations again and again...he put 8 people and some animals on a boat and wiped out every other land creature including all other people....I mean it’s stupidity to believe such rubbish...we have our life, we have nothing more, no heaven, no hell... It’s all made up To keep you under control.

[@sharlenetitus1728]

Thank you John, you explained the gospel so simply yet so profoundly, thank you for your stand as a child of God first and a scientist second

[@paulhaynes3688]

How does Mr Lennox explain why his man made god is a slave sanctioning mass murderer

[@miglriccardi]

I was introduced to Ruse by a professor who studied under him at Florida. I've admired him since. He is intellectually honest and keeps his cool. What I appreciate most is that he recognizes what it means to be human, the limits of our understanding and our deepest desires. I was not familiar with Lennox, so thank you for hosting this discussion. I've watched a number of your videos now and what I walk away with every time is that the comport of the host is admirable and overall the forum attests to the role and value our intellect has -- not coercion, bullying or name calling -- in the dialectic to approximate what is real and true. It is refreshing to see a group of adults in a room acting like adults.

[@aservant2287]

What is it about the bible and science you don't believe?

[@arthurwieczorek4894]

​@@aservant2287Noah's ark.

[@lisadehaan3753]

I love you John Lennox...your work has changed my life :)

[@paulhaynes3688]

How does Mr Lennox explain his man made god being a slave sanctioning mass murderer

[@neofd3223]

What a debate! Lennox is amazing as usual and delivered many amazing points for our faith. Ruse was equally as impressive, and actually I was mostly stunned by how pleasant and likeable he was, in stark comparison to many new atheists (not that I hate the new atheists, just not a fan 😂).

[@painyt4878]

45:30 Ruse: Oh my God God: so you're still thinking of me

[@Haylash8]

Every person says his name, even unconsciously. And most of peoples (if not all of them) think about God intuitively/instinctively

[@painyt4878]

@@Haylash8 you don't have to explain the obvious, really, we have fun, we have fun

[@luiscarlosgonzalez7450]

I love you John. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being the way you are and spreading the word.

[@manuelmendoza6766]

John Lennox is just incredibly eloquent is just amazing how he makes explanation so clear and yet very profound, he is like the C.S. Lewis, he is amazing. Just amazing.

[@GeoCoppens]

An amazing crackpot, you mean...

[@obiwankenobi6871]

GeoCoppens nice Ad Hominem attack... that certainly puts the nail in the coffin for Lennox 😂🤣🤣

[@NN-wc7dl]

@Wazzie Black I haven't heard Lennox say anything which has convinced me, 'cept he is someone who wants to believe in the Christian god. What Lennox wants has nothing to do with reality as far as I am concerned.

[@ApaX1981]

This is the thing that facinates me. Christain say that about john Lennox. Profound, clear elequant etc etc. But to me he is the best example of somebody that just wants to believe and does the most amazing mental gymnastic to justify his believes.

[@WindWordSword]

Wazzie Black one reference book? That's awkward, someone should remind Orthodox Christians that their Philokalia and Evergetinos aren't used for any reference. Or, someone should remind Catholics that their Catechism and their Lumen Gentium aren't used for reference either...or someone should remind CHRISTians as a whole that the New Testament is filled with rape, war, incest, etc. Christianity is built on the teachings of Christ who came as a fulfillment of Jewish mitzvah, fulfill, FULFILL, a word a lot of atheists tend to forget when they try to use Matthew 5:17 to back up their ”points”. Also, the mass majority of Christians see the Bible as divinely INSPIRED, written by HUMANS, thus open for interpretation once the context of what is written is understood. Something atheists tend to forget. Context.

[@DanielRuiz-ek5cu]

Lennox is a gem. Possibly the best at defending Christianity of our age.

[@demetriusmiddleton1246]

...via rhetoric. However, in my experience those with the most profound influence on both myself and others have been those for whom we see the evidence in their daily lives and in the way they interact with others on a personal level.

[@cavaradossi7761]

Christianity is indefensible... religion is indefensible.

[@deborahgrantham7387]

@@cavaradossi7761 no need to defend it, you either understand it or not….

[@markuse3472]

@@cavaradossi7761 Yet, all atheists and evolutionists know for fact evolution is totally false and that The Bible and God are true and accurate. You all know this.

[@markuse3472]

There are a few others who do an equally very good job scientifically defending The Bible and God.

[@jagdishadhikari1137]

Wonderful ! but no one is like Prof. Lennox to express his Christian worldview so uniquely to articulate in the midst of people.

[@CraigFine]

John Lennox should be in jail for supportting a pedophile abusing organization such as the criminal organization that is the catholic church.

[@cigarlovers999]

Craig Fine, John Lennox isn't Catholic.

[@a.t.6322]

@@cigarlovers999 bravo Ray B!

[@jamesschlup2609]

If you haven't read CS Lewis's theological books, you should, Prof Lennox is using many of his arguments in this debate.

[@jagdishadhikari1137]

Yep ! Absolutely. Therefore, Lennox did not forget to mention and acknowledge Lewis's teaching and even listening lectures during his time at Oxford.

[@Rubberglass]

What a great conversation. The moderator did a wonderful job. All the best on your journey to discovering the truth.

[@paulineraising3019]

may God bless Doctor John Lennox. such a profound knowledge of the scripture and others. your explanations are so clear, relevant, and true.

[@serbans565]

Only Lennox? It's not very christian of you...

[@manassehmshelia]

There is context to his comment. How would you feel if I tell you that you are a bad and selfish person because every time you eat you don't feel every hungry person?@@serbans565

[@kathrynshellhorn8637]

John Lennox is fighting the good fight, He has blessed this world with his great faith, knowledge and wisdom. I do not even have sufficient words for the blessing he has been and will always be in my life. Thank you John Lennox for the many sacrifices you have made to bring Christianity to many parts of out world🙏

[@alexnorth3393]

Nope, he's deluded.

[@inpugnaveritaas]

There is nothing good about the Christian death cult.

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

+Kathryn Shellhorn, oh, the poor put upon Christians always fighting the good fight against oppression by no one. Christians have a complex where they have to believe they are under endless persecution. Oh well, believe that too.

[@sally9352]

@@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016 you proved her right by being oppressive with your statement and every single statement above yours.

[@heroldable]

Yeah....John is great to hear.

[@jerrytang8684]

You're as great as ever, John. God bless you more!

[@vinaypratap3226]

On free will question I would say, "We value freedom of speech because it is inherently good. Yes its sometimes does harm a few but we cannot let it slip simply because of that. The same way on creator level free will is fundamental, yes a few will misuse it, but it cannot be taken away just for that. And by the way we cannot judge enormity of the event from our perspective, God has his own perspective."

[@JoshJ12]

@Hunter Green An infinite being can create an infinite choice available for the human. Foreknowledge doesn’t negate free will, as an omnipresent and omnipotent being can be present through all choices, beginning and conclusion yet still allow for choice.

[@abuchaa]

The way John doesnt use his math against him is very admirable. In Jesus he does not Stutter. Admirable has no name

[@lindapb6529]

Mr Lennox, you blow my mind every time I hear you. There is always a new little green in there, that gets lost! I am now obsessing over the wedding and the deeper significance you alluded to. Please please give a talk on this like you did with Abraham, Joseph, and Daniel! Lord continue to bless you

[@Potamotrygorgeous]

What a decent conversation back and forth! A big shout out as well for how the moderator led the debate.

[@benantell5452]

If it weren't for God I would not be here today, His presence and love saved me from taking my own life in 1975, at the age of 21.

[@benantell5452]

@@inpugnaveritaas Only a fool would say that there is not God. I work for Him 24/7. My life is wonderful.

[@benantell5452]

@@inpugnaveritaas I have travelled internationally for ten years watching Jesus perform miracles all over , healing the sick just like He did 2000 years ago. Yes there is proof, but those who do not want to believe, still don't believe even if you show the x-rays before and after so I will not bother with that any more. Peace.

[@inpugnaveritaas]

NothingButTheTruthInChrist can’t hate something that never existed.

[@inpugnaveritaas]

NothingButTheTruthInChrist you’re a bad person.

[@paulhaynes3688]

How do you know it was a god

[@kjustkses]

Michael made some fair points regarding the miracle of Jesus. I had to watch this twice. I am a Christian and think that JL is a super star.

[@jamiegriffin3777]

Just a side thought on this particular miracle... Jesus said that His time had not yet come. What did He mean by that? He was being asked to present wine at a wedding feast.... yet His time had not yet come. Foreshadowing of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? After he served the disciples wine for Passover before He was crucified, He said that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until He drinks it new in the Father's kingdom. (With His Bride)

[@nf3922]

Michael: "I don't want to believe in a God that...". That seems to be a summary of his world view.

[@Captain_Fantasy]

@Zachary James Short He used a natural (or divine in this case) disaster to wipe out evil it's not like He tortured them. They were cannibals who sacrificed their children to fallen angels I'm kind of glad they're not around still. If you had a chance to use a natural disaster to take out Hitler or Stalin or Mao and their followers before they killed millions would you have?

[@Captain_Fantasy]

@Zachary James Short they were warned for 120 years and they chose to stay evil and die instead of turn from their ways so I still think we're better off with just Noah's descendants.

[@Captain_Fantasy]

@Zachary James Short I never said drowning was humane. He chose the method, they chose to die. Why would he make them vanish? That wasn't the warning. We don't even know if there were toddlers or if all were used for sacrificial purposes. Even if there were toddlers they were hybrids of fallen angels and humans and were a corruption of His creation. Ancient history is actually a lot more interesting than the secular world wants to believe.

[@Captain_Fantasy]

@Zachary James Short the good news is what Jesus taught in the New Treatment. Instead of starting with that though you chose what you thought was the most unbelievable story and added zombie puppies and a god who tortures infants to convince yourself there's nothing out there greater than you, other than a convenient scapegoat.

[@Captain_Fantasy]

Using straw man arguments while accusing me of cognitive dissonance is a bit ironic isn't it? If you're referring to Genesis 6 I don't know where your getting your babies and puppies from. Genesis 6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. --------- You are obviously only interested in arguing against the story you made up in your head so unless you go by the Biblical Genesis account, or non Biblical Enoch account, this is a pointless discussion.

[@mosesthangbunaing5485]

I was so privileged to listen to Dr. Lennox, a part from not being able to talk to him, at Rome, Italy in June24-28, 2019! I felt that I am an oxford student! ☺️☺️

[@davidadjei6001]

I think this is the best episode of The Big Conversation. The story of hemorrhoid is a challenging one indeed. When it comes to the problem of suffering, moral evil it’s difficult to answer from a Christian perspective but with the help of the book of Lamentations from the Bible and the ideology that everything happens for reason we can make some sense there.

[@davidbell2547]

Moral evil is very simple to explain by Christianity. It's in the first book of the Bible and throughout

[@NewLifeFromTheWayofTruth]

​@@davidbell2547 If you've prayed about it and tried to understand scripture then yes 100% easy to explain

[@imnotanalien7839]

John Lennox is brilliant and inspirational and I find myself listening to his lectures over and over again. Thank you John Lennox for sharing all you have learned in your life. And also, as an American you wonderful Irish accent is a bonus!

[@pepsimax6671]

LOL the look on Lennox face he is just having more fun than he can handle . Love me some Lennox

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

+Pepsi Max - right, it's very Christian of him to have a smug look on his face. Aren't Christians all about humility? Seems to be a lot of arrogance going on there.

[@LJrock101]

Lennox is the man!!

[@GeoCoppens]

Indeed, if you want his NONSENSE!

[@TheYokotta]

LJrock certainly he is !!!!

[@fujiapple9675]

How is anything Lennox says nonsense? I would love to learn something new.

[@GeoCoppens]

fugiapple96 Jesus walks on water, Jesus turned water into wine, molecule by molecule???????? Jesus, what a load of utter nonsense! Lennox is totally deluded. He was brainwashed in childhood!

[@fujiapple9675]

"He was brainwashed in childhood!" If the coin was flipped the other way, we could just as lacklusterly say that Atheists like Sam Harris was brainwashed into Atheism in childhood. Both instances incorporate the Genetic Fallacy, and this is an attempt to invalidate a worldview on the basis of how the worldview originates. Your admonition against Jesus walking on water would be understandable if Christians claimed Jesus walked on water *naturally.* This is a key distinction. Jesus claimed to be God, and God is the necessary, foundational, transcendent mind, who created the entire Universe. If *that* is the case, then God incarnate walking on water wouldn't be too much of an issue. I would love to provide philosophical propositions that point to God's existence if you are interested.

[@mikekelly5784]

It always amazes me when I watch these debates, the level of laughing, mocking, and ridicule Lennox has to absorb.

[@joecesarano4301]

Agreed observation, with immense dignity and boldness, Dr. Lennox wears impervious Armor.

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

Mike Kelly "It always amazes me when I watch these debates, the level of laughing, mocking, and ridicule Lennox has to absorb." That's funny. I'm surprised that more people don't call him out for being a clown. He makes assertions without evidence. But most of you clowns don't notice because you can't separate the fact that he sounds nice doing it. I couldn't give a flying fuck how nice of a guy he is. He simply has no good reasoning or evidence for the beliefs he holds and assertions he makes.

[@mikekelly5784]

@@SamIAm-kz4hg I just said a prayer for you. Take care

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

@@mikekelly5784 "I just said a prayer for you." We know that prayer doesn't work. If you were to educate yourself, you would discover that. For now, I guess I'll do the thinking for both of us while you dabble in bronze age fairy tales. Have a nice day.

[@normacortes8708]

Samiam 666 LOL. Hey buddy. I see you moved on. . God bless you.

[@timpalmer7934]

I came to the video for John Lennox. He's a great Christian witness. I came to the comment section for Michael Ruse. While I don't agree with Michael's ultimate position on God, I have to pay him the highest compliment for bringing an adverse position without being adversarial. The moderator was excellent, too. Kudos to all three gentlemen!

[@mmhmm9271]

Both these guys are just great, I absolutely love the good spiritedness of this whole conversation. I admire them, there was so little ego involved which is something I can't yet say of myself in debates!

[@titoytvph]

Beautiful dialogue. Amidst conflicting views, it was so courteously done. Salute! 😍🤔👍🏼

[@Nyyre]

I love John Lennox so much. It’s not just that he’s a deep thinker and a great speaker. It’s that his empathy is as obvious as his intelligence. He always debates like he is speaking with a beloved friend. He so clearly has the peace and wisdom of the Holy Spirit flowing out of him.

[@BibleSongs]

This is excellent. Michael Ruse's good humour and generosity match perfectly with the demeanours of Justin and Lennox. So much more enjoyable and fruitful than listening to others sneering their way through debates with Lennox.

[@tomgreene1843]

Ah well, everyone cannot have the good manners of these gentlemen.

[@ricardofolive]

A polite and friendly debate. Congratulations to both Michael Ruse & John Lennox

[@monergismsolideogloria1213]

Thank you Justin for all you do

[@makeitso9833]

With the question "who created God" - It is like a cartoon character asking "who drew my artist", it is irrelevant and assumes the cause is also a cartoon. God is outside of our domain of reality time and matter.

[@asix9178]

*No, it's like a cartoon character asking, "HOW was my creator created?" and the cartoon's creator asking, "HOW was my creator created?" and the cartoon's creator's creator asking, "HOW was my creator created?" ad infinitum. If you insist that everything requires an explanation of HOW it was created, then your 'god' thing requires one as well or you are special pleading. This is why the "Everything must have a creator" argument fails. One way or another, something must exist without being created. Although I have no idea what that 'thing' is, I see no evidence a 'god' thing is that uncreated thing.*

[@AsLaanz]

We saw that our natural world cannot create itself, that's why we suggest that there is something outside of this world that create this world. And we assume that creator is not created. We assume there's two types of thing, one that need creator (our world) and one that not need creator, god.

[@asix9178]

+AsLaanz "We saw that our natural world cannot create itself" *No, we didn't. Nor have we seen that the natural world required being created at all. You're assumption that the natural world needed to be created is unwarranted and frankly bizarre! Do you even understand that to you, the 'natural world' is actually the CREATED world? The ONLY thing natural in your view is a 'god'. You can't even call nature, natural!!* "that's why we suggest that there is something outside of this world that create this world." *If the 'natural world' only consists of your 'god' thing, then you are defeating your own argument to claim it had to be created!* "We assume there's two types of thing, one that need creator (our world) and one that not need creator, god." *Maybe you should stop assuming so much.*

[@Maksie0]

When something is outside reality and time, we call that "not existing".

[@nicholaspowers4782]

@@asix9178 why are you angry at God?

[@oldmanjudo6241]

God bless you John Lennox. You inspire me to be a better thinker and defender of my Christian faith.

[@pearlnathan984]

I really enjoy listening to John Lennox he is a brilliant mind.And he is so proud of his faith in Jesus Christ. We need more men like him.

[@mcmanustony]

His apologetics bores me to tears.....but I'd love to hear him just once talk about his actual work which was in mathematics.

[@StringsOfBrian]

How can anyone look up at a beautiful starry night sky, or hold their baby in their arms upon birth and not believe in God? It just blows my mind. God bless John Lennox and may His grace come upon Michael.

[@Maksie0]

How do any of those things point to the existence of a god?

[@kst68dog]

so what do you say to the millions of mothers looking down on their dead babies every year?

[@yesihavereadit]

@@kst68dog according our John L it's "you lucky so n so" you win a 10% better heaven!

[@hossamgebeily]

Which God? There are hundreds. The God you speak of and believe in, is almost certainly very different from the one of a different religion believes in. Yet you both, think you are right.

[@Incandescence555]

@@Maksie0 I think those experiences pointing to something out of time and space- greater than and causative of our universe is more compelling, logically, and empirically than things creating themselves, or things popping in and out of existence.

[@amandacarmel6084]

I could listen to John Lennox talk for days on end!! He has a brilliant and eloquent answer to everything. He gives me SOO many great ways to answer critics

[@lesblase3667]

He’s smooth with it ain’t he? He’s the man!

[@sumo1203]

Really? Don’t get me wrong, he’s intelligent and polite, but when it comes to evidence for his faith he hits a wall, as far as science is considered. And maybe that’s fine, but for me, if one’s claims and evidence don’t comport with reality, they’re not really worth much. Lennox makes several claims about the supernatural, about miracles, about the actions and intent of a god - none of these are substantiated, at all.

[@amandacarmel6084]

@@sumo1203 nah he gives great evidence for God and being a brilliant mathematician and working in the field of AI, I’d say his opinion is reputable!!

[@sumo1203]

@@amandacarmel6084 what evidence does he give? He mostly gives conjectures. He doesn’t support them really. Most are based on incredulity. His conjecture about how god enacts miracles is a perfect example. He doesn’t offer any evidence what so ever. How could he possibly even have any? And what does math and AI have to do with it? If I had to pick a field concerned with origins my pick would be cosmology

[@amandacarmel6084]

@@sumo1203 there’s overwhelming evidence of God or an Intelligent Designer behind creation. Everything about science confirms intelligent design. It’s not science vs God it’s creationism vs naturalism. And there far more evidence for creationism than naturalism. Naturalism falls short in explaining anything about life!! Bc life cannot come about naturally bc law of biogenesis states: life can only come from pre existing life.

[@neo-YoutubeStoleMyHandle]

Thank you God for making these types of discussions possible. ;)

[@sandraramsdam2967]

John Lennox makes my day meaningful. God bless him.

[@paulhaynes3688]

How does Mr Lennox explain why his man made god is a slave sanctioning mass murderer

[@user-us4qp4xr2q]

Lennox is brilliant. May he live long.

[@onanisland6813]

We rarely hear preachers teaching about the significant of the Miracle in Cana, so glad that it was brought up here

[@gregoryparis7790]

Wow..God bless you Sir John..so much respect..

[@theseersucker5077]

So nice to see a good-hearted discussion on the subject.

[@strigoi5890]

Lennox was blessed with having attended lectures of CS Lewis. Looks like some of it rubbed off....

[@paulreader1777]

Almost all of it rubbed off...

[@active285]

Obviously deluded his mind totally.

[@josiahriggins4117]

@@active285 C. S. Lewis deluded his mind? The greatest intellectual of the 20th century deluded his mind...... hmmm

[@active285]

@@josiahriggins4117 "The greatest intellectual" this sentence alone shows how trapped our mind is in its isolated parallel universe.

[@consideringchristianity5028]

@@active285 I wouldn't say CS Lewis is "the" greatest mind of the 20th century, but no unbiased person can deny his brilliance.

[@justywhite7840]

Love this format of conversation rather than 2 men at podiums arguing

[@mturner9220]

This was a great conversation. I wish our world had more respectable disagreements the way these two men conducted themselves. Opposition without anger. Open conversation. Today we have so much anger and censorship that isn't necessary. All views should be allowed to be shared such as we see here.

[@unionjackjohn]

Michael seems like such a likeable person, it's such a shame the eyes of his heart are closed to God. Truly I pray his eyes are opened to the truth.

[@mackdmara]

I love this kind of content. I always think of it like fencing. Great ideas & fairly entertaining. Thank you very much for what you do here. God Bless

[@julieredmond5192]

mackdmara Fencing. Love that!

[@MacCadalso]

What a great analogy. God bless and take care!

[@juanpelaez5435]

Thank John for being the way you are and for spreading christianism in a rational and reasoning manner proving there is a great deal of rationality in the Christian feith.God bless you.

[@awesomeisasawesomedoesyo182]

Wonderful gentleman. Thank you both.

[@poppyneese1811]

I Love John and his teaching, the other man is also brilliant, I don’t want him to go to hell, so I just prayed that God would open his head and heart!

[@dopeydonaldtrump3744]

Why didn't you just pray that god destroyed this horrible hell place that he created and sends his children to (that he supposedly loves)

[@dopeydonaldtrump3744]

@Wazzie Black you never get shame from a christian

[@winston9505]

What an enjoyable debate. Thank you!

[@paulreader1777]

It is good to see that both debaters actually talk to the audience.

[@dougkaterankin2450]

Introduction. " A better conversation"...... What an excelent starting point. Thankyou.

[@luciordz7550]

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@jelly7310]

I try to study everyday for just an occasion. God bless

[@paulsymons1184]

Tell us the bit where your god told us about how we can buy and sell slaves and how to pass them on to our kids and how much to pay for them and how to beat them so they don't die within a couple of days

[@aquapointbeshoy2736]

@@paulsymons1184 tell me where that’s seen as a civil action in the Bible

[@paulsymons1184]

@@aquapointbeshoy2736 Exodus 21. Also Leviticus, numbers, deuteronony. Paul and Jesus also told slaves to obey their masters even the cruel ones. Your holey bibble sanctions slavery. YOU DONT EVEN KNOWYOUR OWN BOOK!!@@

[@ELIJA40]

John Lennox. Exceptional.

[@garyroberts3859]

Yes he’s exceptional in his delusion there is a God...of course there is no God...this is 2021...we are not 14th.C. Medieval Peasants

[@TyrellWellickEcorp]

@@garyroberts3859 I hope you realize that the belief in god is a reasonable than anytime in the past few hundred years. The specified digital Information in dna which couldn’t have arisen from a blind, unguided, natural process and the finetuning of the universe to make life possible are best explained by god.

[@caviramus0993]

@@TyrellWellickEcorp explain to me what is "digital information in DNA".

[@ceoofmilk2756]

@@caviramus0993 I think he meant coded genetics

[@TheBrunarr]

Very much looking forward to watching this

[@oliveoilchic]

I quite enjoyed both John and Michael. My soul believes what John has to say. However, Michael warms my heart with his intellegent wit. What a special, fun, and humorous "young" man. He is now my favorite agnostoc/athiest. Thank you.

[@snikeduden2850]

Agreed, he's my favourite agnostic/atheist too!

[@livingtoaster1358]

I loved this debate it was actually good faith by both people actually understanding each other and being honest about each others positions

[@a.t.6322]

2 brilliant men in a respectful dialogue.

[@addiej5497]

1 brilliant man

[@kylemathias6335]

@@addiej5497 John Lennox was that man

[@jerryc3715]

Excellent job both parties thank you both

[@Bless-the-land-the-sea-people]

Thank you for defending the Christianity as such time Like this So confident in his creator, Full of knowledge. ❤may God give you more years to live and wisdom of truth.

[@grayfoxart2268]

The moment John brought parent/god analogy, the discussion is basically over.. it was the perfect explanation.

[@subterraneanhomesickalien1344]

this video is just pure gold

[@blackholesun9068]

Ruse is a delightful pragmatic thinker. These two men engaging in conversation is very thought provoking.

[@tomgreene1843]

Great to see civil folk in conversation.

[@rayoski241]

Excellent debate.

[@mathman2170]

Lennox tells the wonderful story of Christianity, how it all hangs together in hope, uplifting in spite of the existence of evil, but Ruse, I think, is correct in pointing out that's "faith", not "science".

[@DanielMartinez-wj5dy]

Amazing stuff. Thank you for what you do

[@naj0916]

John exudes joy and peace. That's precious!

[@estilo2012]

@41:01-05 When Dr Lenox rubs his head is looking like “this guy “ 😂 lol. Lenox with the W again. 👏🏾

[@meganlukes6679]

When you say no amount of proof would change your mind on a position you lose all credibility.

[@monkeyt1554]

Well he didn't say that, he literally said that he needed proof (in the form of a revelation, admittedly)

[@mackdmara]

@@smashexentertainment676 WLC presents arguments that are currently undefeated. There are refutation, but that like saying someone had another viewpoint. I haven't heard a successful refutation. That is the point. As a side note, 'debunking' a philosophical argument is just click bait. There isn't a single successful debunking on KZbin. Not cosmic skeptic, not rationality rules, not holy koolaid, ect. They put that on their videos, but it never is given. Maybe some day they will, since Alex is finishing his education, but not today.

[@mackdmara]

@@smashexentertainment676 How about the Kalam or the argument from evil or the teleological or the moral argument or maybe we can just jump to your misunderstandings of philosophical argumentation if you have any. Let's evaluate if a KZbin commenter or WLC knows philosophy, since the question is, *'Is WLC making sound arguments?'.* Just so we can see who is more likely to present a circular argument or other fallacies. WLC has PhD's (plural) in this area, I don't meet KZbin commenters of this caliber often. That doesn't guarantee soundness of all arguments from said person, but it weighs heavily in his favor of doing it right over a random KZbin commenter, the most of which haven't taken a college level course in philosophy. One to one, odds are WLC has made a sound argument & the random KZbin commenter has not. This is just based off of training. How are they approaching the matter? I have someone who drips their every word in venom in a comments about others. This isn't an honest critic, as their bias is on their sleeve. Again, not a promise that they are wrong, but it isn't in favor of a fair judge. The commenter seems to have an emotional axe to grind & doesn't agree with the person being denounced. I cannot trust their judgements about WLC, most likely. They have other motives beyond the argument that are clear & present. Having given arguments about the choice before me, *not a personal attack on the person I maybe speaking with,* I find that WLC is more likely to be right & the commenter is more likely to be compromised in judgement on 2 fronts. *I therefore conclude WLC is the more likely truth teller.* So, I conclude that your unfounded claims are most likely false. Did you want to talk about that argument now OR have you decided that you have another of WLC's main arguments that have been in play since his doctoral work some 30+ years ago? I can defend his argument just fine if need be, but don't expect me to get emotional, it's a logical argument. If you make a fallacy I will give you where you failed, not just say you failed as you just did. That is rhetoric, not logic.

[@mackdmara]

@SmashEX Entertainment There it is again, a large dose of rhetoric without any logical reasoning. I think you hold your views illogically. You would be the Flat Earther in this sense, given what you claimed about them is true. You just dismiss Christianity without logic. I have direct evidence both for Christian beliefs & a round Earth. You only reject them by claiming them faked, either way. Still, What did you say? 1) You dislike WLC's voice. 2) It is all made up fairy tales. 3)You said you won't be fighting the logic or claiming fallacious material. So, that is a mixed bag. Thank you for denying your earlier claims of fallacies as logically valid. I didn't think they were either. But the rest is just person attacks against a person & what a person thinks (since you know there isn't a God). You might as well just told me WLC is a poopy head. Doodoo to your claim sir. Doodoo on you. Sounds juvinial? It should because it is. You want someone to take you serious, quit that. Name calling is an attempt to get someone to agree out of peer pressure *without thinking.* You might think that is a real reason, I never will. I didn't follow a fool to my beliefs. The Universe began to exist. Not a guess, that's a fact. People universally as a species, with some outliers, believe a very similar core moral code, fact. Saying well known slogans & propaganda for a belief, like, 'Your sky daddy.', isn't a reason to reject a belief or accept one, fact. You are not using the Universe began as a part of your reasoning, but will use the fairytale & sky daddy. You are wrong to conclude there is no God from that evidence. *Slogans don't produce truth, just mindless followers.* Are you looking to be mindless follower? WLC only uses known truths to get at a possible end. He looks for the most likely choice, given what we know. That is a very scientific approach. Disliking it doesn't deny anything. If you dismissed Christian teachings because a friend said they were dumb, that's wrong headed. If you dismissed them because you want to have sex outside of marriage or have same sex attraction, that doesn't evidence they are wrong either. These are emotional reasons. I want to be accepted. I want to not follow rules. Etc. None of that makes it wrong. Not liking it, doesn't make it wrong either. This is the majority of what people denying Christianity bring. Its all a pack of known fake reasons. You don't like it, so you don't follow it. That isn't evidence it is fake, just that you won't accept it. Deny truth all you like. Feelings are never right or wrong, they are just how you feel. God is logically coherent as an idea. God is logically real as a being. God is rationally accessable. None of that will effect your feels, but it does make Christianity true. WLC is correct in his assessment on these arguments. God is real, as far as you can tell.

[@smashexentertainment676]

@@mackdmara Hey, my comments been deleted! Typical. Well, good day to you, sir! And your imaginary friend)

[@chrisschollbach7837]

Lord Jesus please give mr Ruse the revelation he seeks. Even tho this prayer is 4 years later.

[@georgedoyle7971]

Lovely respectful guys. This is how you debate and share your beliefs. The contrast between these two mens personalities and Christopher Hitchens is enormous.. They are both dignified, funny, genuine and approachable characters 👍👍👍

[@Redacted44]

My gf stepdad, before he died from cancer, would say, "arent u jealous? Arent u jealous Im going to the most beautiful place? U cant even imagine?"

[@anaccount8474]

They're all wearing those brown shoes that lecturers wear. There must be some secret shop they all go to.

[@ramonfabular1022]

Feel so sad for Michael Ruse, not being 78 yo, 🙂but his turning against Jesus. God bless all our journeys to Jesus ✝️🙏🥰💞

[@TheBrunarr]

Great respect for both men

[@sector7676]

"I want to know how God created this world. I'm not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." ~Albert Einstein

[@enabler2456]

@Secret Colossus Telling theists that 90% of scientists don't believe in a creator isn't appeal to authority? or does that only apply to people who disagree with you?

[@jackstewart753]

Great quote. I hadn't heard that before

[@mateokarlvonpavlovic8295]

@Secret Colossus yeah Ive know he wasnt theist But he was deist that means that he didnt belive that god Will help you But you must help yourself im 16 anyway

[@mateokarlvonpavlovic8295]

@Secret Colossus But are you the theist. You know can I share with you something belive me im not lying it was story of my Grand Grand father he died 2010 it is real story and this might change the look on a world. When he went home one Day he suddenly saw a a beautiful women with goat legs Who are dancing in a circle and he ran away because he was scared and you know Who were they. They were fairies a Slavic mythology you. They werent small like tooth fairies this IS American usa bullshit. You have different fairies others are in russia they are very scary. And other are very beautiful ussualy they have seen them in bosnia or serbia But I live in slovenia. Where you can find them. Ussualy at night in the forests. There IS a one theory if the cities are more civilizated you wont see them. Fairies are ussualy protectors of the forests. And belive me the science cant explain everything. You know there was a priest in movie Who said sometimes science cant help you But religion can. So think about it and Tell me the opinion what do you think. Just please answer mee im not idiot even if im 16 years old.

[@damilolataiwo7750]

Enabler fortunately for you 90 percent is actually not accurate 51 percent actually being there is a higher power

[@jimmyshimray2282]

Wow John Lenox has truly relationship with God.

[@Oners82]

Jimmy Shimray He has an imaginary friend, sure.

[@PlantChrist]

Oners82 nothing is important. Everything is meaningless you’re just chasing vanity.

[@Oners82]

@@PlantChrist I hope that makes sense to you because it doesn't to anyone else.

[@PlantChrist]

Oners82 not really I’m sure others would understand me

[@Oners82]

@@PlantChrist It literally makes no sense as a reply to what I said.

[@ryanrhoads9546]

I lost it when John called out Micheal for his use of Sophistry 😂 the man didn't miss a beat. This was a great debate. I honestly always love how John can facilitate any discussion he has with unbelievers to be cordial and enjoyable for everyone involved. A true talent in debate thats sorely lacking majority of the time I feel.

[@yotamschmidt570]

Very enjoyable, genuine conversation. Thank you!

[@paulineraising3019]

May God bless John Lenox so bountifully.

[@philblagden]

God is the foundation for logic, without which we cannot begin to analyse the evidence. The problem is that sin affects our hearts and our intellect. We are in the dark without His grace and revelation. We are biased against God due to our sinful nature. "There is no one righteous, not one. There is no one that seeks God. All have turned aside. They have together become corrupt".

[@rovert46]

Pretty bleak outlook you've got there, Phil...

[@philblagden]

@@rovert46 It's not about me or anyone else. God is the fountain and source of all goodness. He is is loving and holy. He loves goodness and hates wickedness. Look around and experience and your conscience will tell you that there is something broken with mankind. That brokenness is called sin. It is acting against the laws of God. Failing to acknowledge Him. Treating things as more important than His infinite goodness. Lying and deceiving. Failure to respect family and neighbours. Stealing. Adultery and lust. Hatred which is the root of murder. Resentment of others better off than ourselves. God is too pure to look on sin. Can't share heaven with unrepentant people who hate what He represents and cling to their jealousy, bitterness, anger. The good news is that God has sent His son Jesus to bear the punishment of sin for all who believe in Him. Experiencing God's love and forgiveness is the most incredible, joyful and liberating experience. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

[@rovert46]

Phil Blagden yeah. Don’t believe in the concept of sin, it’s all man made mythology. Nothing wrong with lust or sexual desires either, it’s a natural inclination.

[@philblagden]

@@rovert46 Most sin is a perversion of something good. Sex is good if it's in the context of marriage where there is trust, loyalty, commitment and love. Are you an atheist?

[@rovert46]

Phil Blagden as I said, I don’t agree with the notion of sin, but I’m all for all people enjoying sex in marriage ...

[@TheG7thcapo]

i love when they both laugh when they discuss.