WAGNER & NIETZSCHE - What Really Happened

[@martyYyYyYyYyYyYYy]

Your podcast is perfect to accompany my sleepless nights (and sleepy days). I can't thank you enough 💖

[@room9podcast]

Bro, I have yet to find a podcast that is so overflowing with knowledge. Thank you very much sir for taking the time to do these.

[@untimelyreflections]

My pleasure!

[@dethkon]

He’s kind of lib-brained IMO but the quality of his reading and voice makes it worth it

[@laffing_hwhitee]

Regardless to your politics, your fervor in your readings Are inviting and full of natural Curiosity. Thank you for lending your voice, to Nietzsche as well as others - your oratory of Faust was nothing Less than moving, Professional, concise & nothing short of Beautiful . . .

[@laffing_hwhitee]

No job, should be "thankless" Thank you 😊 for all your work!

[@DavidBertet]

I sooo agree with you, man.

[@lolar3290]

This is the BEST of all podcasts for lovers of wisdom. Thank You so much 😊!!!

[@banquotheholstein]

Man, I absolutely LOVED this episode! Thank you so much for your dedication and passion for Nietzsche, I have been diving into his work for about half a year now and your podcast is indispensable! I know all things must end one day, but I hope you find enough enjoyment to keep this going for a long time. Thank you so much!

[@ramsesandadrian3820]

I'm glad you cover an EXTREMELY overlook part in Nietzsche world view. Seeing on how Nietzsche is so popular now days, it's surprising many overlook this part of Nietzsche life

[@ToxicTurtleIsMad]

This part is definetly not overlooked. Maybe the personal impacts are overlooked.

[@miketagg1575]

Excellent documentaries - well researched, accessible and well read

[@eddiebeato5546]

Just a short comment! Your lectures are just wonderful!!! Thank you!

[@markn4779]

Such an enjoyable talk, thank you.

[@pchabanowich]

This is immense, dense and beautifully presented. Thank you for this treasury.💐

[@gingerbreadzak]

01:00:32 🎭 Nietzsche and Wagner's friendship began to strain in 1876 due to their differing views on nationalism and cultural revival. 01:01:29 🎶 The Bayreuth Festival in 1876, organized by Wagner, brought together famous composers and dignitaries, impacting Nietzsche's experience and impressions. 01:03:20 🍻 Nietzsche's experience at the Bayreuth Festival may have been mixed, with some disappointment in the attendees and the festival's atmosphere. 01:06:30 🚶 Nietzsche was known for his intimate, one-on-one conversations and may have struggled in a large social event like the Bayreuth Festival. 01:09:25 🤕 Nietzsche experienced severe headaches and physical discomfort during the Bayreuth Festival, possibly affecting his overall experience. 01:11:43 🌶 Nietzsche's description of "strong spices" may allude to his disappointment in the festival's atmosphere and the contrast between his ideal and reality. 01:13:08 🎭 The friendship between Nietzsche and Wagner would eventually lead to their ideological split over provincial versus pan-European culture. 01:15:12 💡 Nietzsche foreshadows his later philosophical ideas, including the celebration of passion, rejection of stoicism, and the importance of correct feeling versus incorrect feeling. 01:18:06 🎼 Nietzsche questions whether Wagner's art and actions align with a yearning for life and celebration or a yearning for nothingness, highlighting a crucial dichotomy in his work. 01:20:24 🏞 Nietzsche describes his transformation in solitude, feeling closer to the Greeks and aspiring to wisdom. 01:21:19 🌲 Nietzsche writes a significant part of his book "The Plowshare" in a small woodland village, experiencing solitude. 01:22:10 📜 Nietzsche seeks genuine human relationships and avoids half friendships and partisan associations. 01:23:43 🌟 Part two of the video discusses the downfall of Nietzsche and Wagner's relationship, driven by various factors including philosophical disagreements and personal issues. 01:25:12 📚 Nietzsche begins writing "Human, All Too Human" and experiences tension with Wagner, partly due to the content of his book. 01:27:32 🤯 Wagner publishes an essay opposing Nietzsche's ideas in "Human, All Too Human," possibly deepening their rift. 01:28:01 💼 Nietzsche's condition worsens, leading to his retirement, supported by a generous pension from the University of Basel and the city's academic society. 01:35:11 🏔 Nietzsche describes the positive effects of solitude, mountain air, and exercise, emphasizing the importance of personal freedom. These key takeaways provide insights into Nietzsche's evolving mindset, his break with Wagner, and the significant changes in his life during this period. 01:39:22 🤔 Nietzsche's headaches and blindness led to rumors about him, with Wagner spreading one theory suggesting excessive masturbation as the cause. 01:40:18 📜 Brian McGee's theory suggests that Wagner's estrangement from Nietzsche may have been influenced by a doctor's diagnosis of Nietzsche's health issues, including blindness. 01:41:14 😮 Wagner attributed Nietzsche's blindness to excessive masturbation, a common belief in the 19th century, causing personal betrayal and strained their relationship. 01:43:05 🤝 Wagner's silence on the matter later suggests he may have realized he was in the wrong regarding the rumors. 01:46:22 🤨 Persistent rumors about Nietzsche's personal life, like syphilis and brothel visits, lack concrete evidence and rely on stereotypes. 01:49:19 🧬 Nietzsche's health issues are more likely due to congenital defects, such as cancer or a genetic disorder, not syphilis. 01:51:16 🤷‍♂ Speculations about Nietzsche's personal life and relationships with Wagner's wife remain unproven and may have influenced their conflict. 01:53:41 🇩🇪 Wagner's shift towards anti-Semitism, German nationalism, and Christianity conflicted with Nietzsche's views, contributing to their ideological differences. 01:56:02 📖 Nietzsche's essays "The Case of Wagner" and "Nietzsche contra Wagner" provide insight into his critical thoughts about Wagner and their ideological disputes. 01:57:32 📜 Nietzsche emphasized the importance of emancipating oneself from parental and cultural influences to achieve true independence. 01:59:02 💡 Nietzsche's rejection of Wagnerism was about rejecting ideas, not the man himself, and it was a consequence of deeply engaging with those ideas. 02:00:32 🎭 Nietzsche saw Wagner as a representative of modernity, and he believed that to be a philosopher, one had to confront and understand Wagner's ideas. 02:01:32 🌐 Nietzsche's critique of modernity goes beyond economic or political issues; it's a spiritual problem that involves the inherent sickness of modern ideas and values. 02:03:20 🔮 Nietzsche's view of culture is rooted in the collective subject's psyche, influenced by both physical and external factors, and it can long outlive the material conditions that gave rise to it. 02:11:16 🕊 Nietzsche criticized Wagner's conversion to Christianity, seeing it as a retreat from the subversive potential of pagan values, and as a betrayal of their shared earlier ideas. 02:16:53 🔄 Nietzsche praised Wagner for his earlier revolutionary leanings but criticized him for becoming a romantic who eventually embraced Christianity, seeing it as a path to folly and rejecting the world.

[@shaunlanighan813]

Well read and interesting.

[@seekingsomethingshamanic]

as someone whos recently discovered niezsche, i love him already. i too am a follower of dionysus, i held bias that kept me from nietsches work. only to find as i let him in , followingthe lines spoke to pentheus, i was intoxicated by his words. you speak them beautifully, im definitely an admirer of this work and it shall follow me in my own process in life thank you. i also suffer violent headaches, i use cannabis (if only nietzsche had access) but i do find the mountains make me feel good. thank you.

[@enzocypriani5055]

Awesome channel!! Exactly what i needed

[@rosanna5515]

Lovely to return to my old haunts Thank you🎉

[@doomerspacamp]

I love your lectures. absolutely fascinating. thank you

[@Lnch4ALion]

The easiest voice to listen to in podcast land

[@Alyosha12]

Fantastic stream. Fascinating. New fan. 👏

[@gingerbreadzak]

02:17:20 🎭 Nietzsche discusses Wagner's views on revolution, contracts, morality, and traditions. 02:18:46 💑 Wagner's Siegfried aims to emancipate women and promote free love. 02:19:08 📜 Wagner's collision with Schopenhauer's philosophy led to a change in his worldview. 02:21:34 🌍 Nietzsche discusses the concept of decadence as societies grow older and risk decline. 02:25:43 🎵 Nietzsche criticizes Wagner for using music as a tool to stimulate emotions without genuine depth. 02:26:41 💰 Nietzsche suggests that Wagner's success with morbid music led to financial gain. 02:28:11 🎶 Nietzsche argues against viewing music purely for hedonistic pleasure. 02:30:33 🎭 Nietzsche accuses Wagner of being an actor, creating scenes for emotional impact rather than genuine art. 02:35:49 🚫 Nietzsche warns against the stage becoming the master of the arts and music becoming an art of lying. 02:37:42 🇩🇪 Nietzsche's ideas were distributed in a censored form, but Wagner's influence was not to blame for the rise of the Third Reich. 02:38:44 🚫 Nietzsche's criticism of Wagner goes beyond political beliefs and stems from Wagner's decadent artistry. 02:39:10 📜 Nietzsche critiques Wagner for becoming absorbed by the audience and making music a form of lying. 02:41:05 🤯 Nietzsche's break with Wagner led to his development of courageous pessimism and a sense of mission. 02:42:26 🐪 Nietzsche's life transitions from camel (accumulating influences) to lion (critique) to child (creative phase), and Wagner's death marked a significant turning point.

[@gingerbreadzak]

00:00 📚 In the 1860s, Nietzsche was a young philosopher influenced by Schopenhauer's pessimism and the idea that life is a state of endless striving and suffering. 01:24 🧘 Nietzsche believed in introspection and self-discipline as a means to master the will and find peace in a world without progressive views of life or history. 03:22 🎭 Nietzsche saw culture's role in addressing universal existential questions like suffering, death, and insignificance but criticized superficial culture in Germany. 05:17 🎭 Nietzsche emphasized the importance of tragedy as an art form that allows individuals to confront the tragic aspects of human existence and find meaning. 07:13 🎵 Nietzsche believed that Germany needed a new cultural movement, potentially through music, to transform its identity, but faced obstacles like Christianity and nationalism. 09:34 📚 Nietzsche criticized the shallow culture in Germany, where people appeared cultured but lacked profound knowledge that could change their lives. 12:27 🎶 Nietzsche was an admirer of Richard Wagner's music, which he saw as a powerful form of communication and a total work of art. 16:59 🌟 Nietzsche described Wagner as an artist so unique that he transcended conventional categories of poet, painter, and musician. 19:49 📜 Nietzsche and Wagner's first encounter was filled with excitement and eagerness, with Nietzsche fighting over a suit before their meeting. 25:27 🎵 Nietzsche and Wagner shared a deep friendship marked by discussions on philosophy, religion, politics, and culture. Nietzsche viewed Wagner as a father figure, while Wagner saw Nietzsche as a disciple. 27:52 📚 Nietzsche's close relationship with Wagner influenced his work, such as "The Birth of Tragedy," which received mixed reactions from the academic community. 32:02 🕊 Wagner and Nietzsche fulfilled certain needs for each other, but their friendship laid the foundation for future conflicts as their roles shifted. 38:37 🌟 Nietzsche's rise as a great philologist was hindered by the public reception of "The Birth of Tragedy," which impacted his academic career, but he continued to teach. 40:02 🎭 The Bayreuth festival was not just a music festival; it aimed to create a shift in cultural attitude and identity. 43:02 🌧 The foundation stone laying for the Bayreuth opera house in 1872 marked the symbolic beginning of the Bayreuth festival, but it foreshadowed the stormy relationship between Nietzsche and Wagner. 46:07 🤔 Nietzsche's untimely meditations and expanding philosophical influences began to sow the seeds of doubt regarding Wagner's ability to fulfill the cultural vision they both sought. 48:32 🚧 As the Wagners moved to Bayreuth in 1872, Nietzsche's ability to remain close to them diminished, leading to potential paranoia and suspicions about their friendship. 51:24 📚 Nietzsche's essay on Wagner for his untimely meditations contained criticisms that were so harsh he feared hurting Wagner, leading him to edit it carefully. 54:13 🏃 Nietzsche criticizes modernity for its haste, superficiality, and obsession with the personal, and he sees these as undermining deeper values and traditions. 56:09 🇩🇪 Nietzsche believes that true artists have the opportunity to rejuvenate a declining culture but are also tempted to succumb to decadence. 58:33 🌍 Nietzsche shifts towards a pan-European perspective, emphasizing the importance of cultivating a greater European culture rather than focusing solely on Germany. 01:00:03 🎨 Nietzsche begins to believe that Wagner is becoming more of a romantic, emphasizing the power of his own popularity and national sentiments.

[@almodovar251]

Thank you, I love Nzche and all of these great philosophers! Thank you for sharing!

[@rosanna5515]

Splendid! How I wish I had had the opportunity and honour of having had you as a professor. At 72, methinks a time-machine may have been de riguer🎉🎉

[@leejs-l1k]

Good job....thanks.

[@alpaslanertungealp9563]

A little correction is necessary that Hans von Bülow was rather and still is know for his work as a conductor, than composer. Even among musicians he is known only as the most prominent conductor of his time. Rather important as a pianist and least important as a composer. Music historically his importance is his support (as a conductor) of Brahms, Wagner and later on Liszt. He conducted (and played) many works of these composers and supported their careers, especially Wagner’s. He premiered Tristan and Meistersinger.

[@untimelyreflections]

Thanks! I’ll plan on adding a correction to the description. I suppose I think of arranging as a form of composition, but this is my perception as a musician in a very different context, rather than describing the way in which he is actually regarded/remembered.

[@themajor2072]

The chronology of Bülow’s musical allegiance is off. He initially championed Wagner and Liszt. These two, alongside Berlioz, had come to represent a liberal aesthetic movement called the “New German School”. The belief shared by all of these composers was that the traditional forms of the classical era had culminated in Beethoven, and that the path forward was to invent new musical forms. Bülow cemented his alliance with these composers by marrying Cosima Liszt, Franz Liszt’s daughter. However, over the course of his involvement in premiering Tristan und Isolde and Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Wagner began an affair with Cosima. I’ll spare the details, but it is an exceptionally ugly chapter in the lives of all involved (except Wagner, this is only typically ugly for him) and the situation metastasized into a scandal. It is safe to say that Bülow, having been very publicly humiliated and cuckholded by Wagner all while he was leading the premieres of Wagner’s operas, was thoroughly alienated from both Wagner and the Liszt family. In the following decades, his aesthetic positions would shift and he would end up in the camp of the conservative faction of German music, led by the likes of Brahms, Joachim, and the widow Schumann. Perhaps he really did have some kind of aesthetic revelation that totally changed his way of thinking, but the chronology strongly implies that Bülow’s ideological shift towards a more conservative aesthetic was in reaction to the fallout caused by the affair.

[@danscac]

I need to hear this guy's guitar playing

[@milesfromneworleans]

Great podcast! You've really done your homework and have provided an excellent analysis of the Wagner Nietzsche relationship. One small point though, the German pronuciation of Richard is "re-card" not "rickert". It sounds like you're talking about Heinrich Rickert, the famous German neo-Kantian philosopher of the late 19th C :-))

[@christiandudzik3966]

What does "discifle" mean? Love these during and after my workdays. Thank you

[@lorenmichael380]

Maybe the "p" is pronounced "f" because the sound man recomended a way to aschew popping of the "p." The puff of air that accompanies the sound of the pronunciation of that particular letter has given rise to techniques including of balancing the trebles, basses, and those kinds of signals. The recording technique we seem to be hearing is a very close sound. It's as if we are being spoken to by lips close to the ear.

[@christallaktorides6904]

Thank You

[@LifeofHum]

Wagner represented an ideal fatherly figure for Nietzsche, compared to his own father.

[@AMansWorldPodcast]

Great channel 🫡💯

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

5:18 Banger

[@francoisb.3800]

Dear ES, you regularly mention the modern readings of Nietzsche in your podcast. However, you haven't covered Foucault in that context, who is probably one of Nietzsche's most indebted scholar. I myself wrote my Bachelor thesis on the differences between Nietzsche's and Foucault's relation to Truth, Knowledge, and Power. A French scholar named Jacques Bouveresse did something close more recently and I was wondering if you could try to go over this incestuous relationship with your own means. I think this would be an analysis really worthy of interest since the bridge between Nietzsche and 20th C. postmodernism is often approached in a very "reducitivist" manner and many fail to grasp the distinctions between N and F.

[@untimelyreflections]

I’m planning on transitioning to covering people influenced by Nietzsche as we continue, although I made a choice to try and cover his influences first. Foucault will of course be covered eventually on the podcast, in light of this. He’s a fascinating guy who went through many shifts in his thinking throughout his life.

[@MacSmithVideo]

Have you read I Am Dynamite? Interesting biography.

[@markmannm2]

Wonderful narration. MarkMannM2

[@jasbrg]

Lovely, do you upload to other platforms as well it just KZbin? I looked for you on Apple podcasts but did not find you.

[@untimelyreflections]

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nietzsche-podcast/id1573808070

[@jasbrg]

@@untimelyreflections thanks!

[@ramsesandadrian3820]

Richard Wagner always held the archetype of Christ as the highest ideal for creating a brotherhood of men. Read Art and Revolution which was written 1848 where he holds Apollo and Christ as the gods man should look up to. He drops the Apollonian after his encounter with Schopenhauer but always held on to Christ to which in his eyes was an Aryan and not Jewish figure. His stepson Houston Stewart Chamberlain expanded this idea further but the point is he was never a Christian but found in Christ the divine man who uplifts the suffering of Humanity out of Compassion and Love (not pity). Even after his encounter with the works of Arthur Gobineau (a hardcore racist who can be considered the grandfather to the Nazis) he refuse to give in to racism because in his eyes Love and Compassion where what justices the superiority of a man. Wagner does not neglect the Will but reverses it (as oppose to Nietzsche who enhances it or Schopenhauer who straight out neglects it) into the Will-To-Redeem or the Will-To-Miracle and as one that defies the laws of nature beginning with the act of the virgin birth (Read Religion and Art and all the essays relating to it). Richard Wagner is very much a Bodhisattva (he even consider writing a play on the Buddha) in where his music (which in his eyes captured the essence of Christianity) transcended the material plane to elevate man above the historical dialect with feeling alone.

[@ramsesandadrian3820]

Nietzsche projected his own ideas unto Wagner (he never understood what Wagner project was) but I will say that Nietzsche also held Christ in the highest esteem for being a bridge to the Ubermensch. I suspect his "mad' letters where he refers himself as "The Crucify" really tells us he identify with Christ in his suffering and saw himself as the new Christ for a new Humanity. Of course Nietzsche understood that reality in the sense Heraclitus or Empedocles understood it as opposites coming together to clash but also have an underlying structure we call logic (Logos). Dionysus and Buddha, Caesar and Christ, Shakespeare and Bacon, Wagner and Nietzsche.

[@zootsoot2006]

Fascinating stuff but can't get over the pronunciation of disciple as discifle.

[@MatthewStevens-m1k]

Hey essentialsalts, I am doing a paper on Wagner Contra Nietzsche and I was wondering if I could have all of the sources you used to make this Podcast? Thanks! love the video btw.

[@gluon8808]

Do you have any written transcripts for your podcasts? Something that I do is to copy the KZbin generated captions and save them in my ebook for viewing. This does not include all podcasts in Spotify. Just wondering if there are any alternatives around that, thank you.

[@ToxicTurtleIsMad]

There are tools that may help you with that. Search for youtube transciber or something. It may not be 100 percent accurate of course.

[@BobBrodie]

The genesis of Parsifal was decades before it was actually written. Wolfram von Eschenbach's 'Parzifal' is considered one of the greatest masterpieces of German medieval literature. Wagner read both this and also Chretien de Troy's great grail romance. They inevitably struck him as ideal sources for constructing a libretto. 'Parsifal' has therefore got nothing to do with obeisance before the Cross. It's simply the fruition of a youthful encounter with two masterful romances. Now that he was no longer occupied with the Ring/Tristan und Isolde/Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg he had time to write the work. Why would Wagner NOT want to write an opera based on such arresting sources?

[@AlexAlex-tf9rt]

Where do I know you from? I know your voice from somewhere

[@stephengoodwin6403]

'Germans are not ready for Wagner's music'--F.W. Nietzsche

[@phillipjordan1010]

We also have no culture here in the USA. Unless you consider obesity,poor diet, low intelligence,and horrible tastes in music then yes we do have culture

[@ahobimo732]

Don't forget the religion of football.

[@phillipjordan1010]

This is my own personal speculation here. But I think maybe that Neitsczche and Cosima had some type of sexual congress. They were both close in age. Wagner was relatively old compared to her. His libido may have been dull. I've seen and experienced the same situation and scenarios. The deed would definitely been kept under the tightest wraps. Human sexuality is the same at core.

[@maximilianthiel8485]

41:40 ozora has it and it’s breathtaking

[@cheri238]

I love your pocasts and your music. Tonkunst: (Ger.) Music; the art and science of music. Richard Wagner Leipsic 1813-- Venice, 1813. One of the most important composers of his time. It's almost entirely operatic. " Founder of the " Modern Drama."Reinzi" does not belong to his reforms, but his new path begins with begins "Tannhauser." After this one can mention "Flying Dutchman, "Lohengrin," "Tristen and Isoide" "Tristen and Isoide" (first opera which all his new theories were represented). "Mastersingers of Nuremberg," the triology, consisting of "Rheingold," Die Walkure," "Seigfried" and "Gotterdammerung," and finally, "Parsitial." Nietzche's writings and Wagner steps traveling and departure from the changes of the times fleeting with minds of those cultures, a moment of spheres writhing of centuries within insight. Rumors or not of the conflict between Nietzsche and Wagner, Nietzsche's embarkment railed, with his penmanship of great truths of mankind's existence within the borders both dark and light. His frailty at the end of his life, was a light that could not be put out, even through betrayal of family members or friends. I love Wagner's music and Nietzche and philosophers, histories, sciences, theology, art and creativity, especially music and literature. Music, art, and creativity are the glues that holds our world together. Self-interest leads to divisions or commercialism, no matter what field one may apply themselves. Be it politics, business, corporate powers of greed, even creative art or any field has claws, which color does one choose? Why was Wagner's music almost forgotten about? Thankfully, it wasn't. The question is "who are we?" The mystery of "awe." Lennard Bernstein's trip to Germany to direct "Wagner's Music" was immortal. 🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵

[@alecmisra4964]

He was the unsullied.

[@BobBrodie]

It's true that Siegfried's parents were siblings - but it was necessary for Wagner to telescope their complex ancestry. Otherwise he would have been saddled with unwieldy, inelegant and overtly long libretti. He then, of course, had to incorporate incest into the plot and justify it artistically.

[@frozenriverbell]

Happy❤

[@plintdillion286]

I had a moment of happiness. Now I must destroy the sin to justify my happiness. Of course Niet has no believe in Sin.

[@jonswanson7766]

I find it hard to believe that the creator of Tannhauser would not be suspected of harboring Christian sentiments. The same goes for Lohengrin.

[@pieterkock695]

rikkert wagner....

[@adamstevens5518]

“Wagner personality cult festival”. Love it.

[@piushalg8175]

I would like to give some advice concerning the pronounciation of some German words that contain the letter "ch". They are not pronounced as "k". Instead you have to pronounce these consonants like the ending of the scottish word "lough".

[@untimelyreflections]

Thank you, I like to think my pronunciation of foreign words and names is at least a little better than most Americans, which still puts me in the lowest tier 😂. But at least I’ll try. I don’t know if I have the throat for it, but again, I’ll try.

[@danmarco7126]

Is Nietzsche not getting caught up in what he considers the mistake of all philosophers when he assigns HONESTY as characteristic of the master morality? Definitely seems less than universal to me.

[@allurbase]

I wonder if that humidity/height obsession is but superstition and bad old time medicine.

[@abelcisneros7531]

Are you mispronouncing disciple??

[@untimelyreflections]

Yes.

[@SfoglinoNASA]

4:02

[@phillipjordan1010]

I cannot believe that VVaggner fell before the Christian cross. What a sucker.

[@danmarco7126]

Christian overthrew the Roman Empire through the memetics of ideas?

[@azbymusic]

Im always flabbergasted by the shallowness of the dismissal of the christian claims by Nietzsche. I do understand the dislike of christianity, but the lack of real engagement with it is just dishonest.

[@untimelyreflections]

Why should anyone take the claims of Christianity seriously?

[@azbymusic]

@@untimelyreflections Exactly my point. If you or N don't know the answer to even this question there is no serious engagement. If one doesn't know or understand the reasons for a position held by someone you cannot have anything other than an echo chamber. Make a list of all Christian/ theistic thinkers throughout history and just call them stupid.. Quite enjoyable though

[@untimelyreflections]

@@azbymusic No one is calling them stupid. Incredibly smart people can find their thought forced into erroneous channels by the pressure of the collective, by moral demands, by pleasurable beliefs, etc. I ask why Nietzsche should take Christian claims seriously because it seems like you're not concerned with the Nietzschean critique, which is based on the psychology of Christianity, and perhaps pursuing some evidentiary standard (ie "but what if Christianity is 'true'"). If I'm wrong on this, please correct me. But if I'm not, I'd be interested in what information you have that supports this position. As far as I can tell, all we have is a bunch of human beings who decided to make claims about God. Who God is, what God is like, what God wants. I'll believe when God tells me. Until then, it's just a bunch of people talking about stuff they have no knowledge of.

[@azbymusic]

@@untimelyreflections I'm extremely interested in N's critique of human thought in general. But i don't recognize christianity as the recipient. I really don't understand that he doesn't want to represent a contrary position in the bést possible light (in stead of dismissing it because of hypocritical adherends of this religion?) Dostojevski, whom he greatly admired, for instance does exactly the opposite in his later novels. As for rational arguments for theism and christianity ( from the end of the 19th century and updated) you don't need me to find them:) All the best, Thanks for your responses!

[@Pddy-je8pn]

Comment

[@arais08]

😛😎

[@36cmbr]

I don’t think much of FN, and in fact he is no philosopher based on traditional syllogistic formats. On the other hand, your scholarship as it pertains to the subject is excellent. I wonder why you have chosen to follow him down? The constant over-working characterizations of historical materialist thinkers and their thinking is to practice the art of defamation and sophistry . Albeit in the name of genuine philosophy FN is merely a liar, a malcontent, a contrarian and finally a very foolish person. I appreciate your work because of its potential to explain two important concepts: the nature of nature and human kind’s relationship to it. Riddle me this; is the material universe aggressive and thus is human conscious well aligned with brute aggression. I bare witness that the universe is all that is sweet and good. We are wise when we find ourselves in awe of its magnificence.

[@laffing_hwhitee]

What you need is you as an antagonist,big words,big opinions sprinkled with Niceties for that added Plausable deniability - Sophistry these days Are "gutter poltics", So maybe a silver tongued Detractor (such as yourself) should come along and - unravel your ideas & musings, Lightly giving positives - but that wouldn't be fair - no, that would be the "universe" - Perception is projection -

[@bluesque9687]

Who are you? Your channel doesn't tell us that. Is this stuff peer reviewed? Anything published? Or, is it just what you think?

[@alexmur6411]

Tristan Tate

[@alexmur6411]

Tristan Tate