Beyond: Two Souls - David Cage's Biggest Disaster

[@everydaysponge4086]

I hate the idea that "Maturity for games" equals "make games more like movies" maturity for games should be games offering an experience that only could be conveyed through the medium of games.

[@dankmemes8254]

Why not just both

[@jackgebhardt2932]

@@dankmemes8254 Because movies are not games. These are very different mediums with their own strengths and weaknesses.

[@lonebattledroid4474]

One example would be Undertale since it's game play use of time travel and alternate timelines are integral to it's story that wouldn't be possible for a movie

[@ExaltedUriel]

Probably gonna catch some shit for saying this, but the first game that came to mind that does this is Undertale. That game's story can ONLY work as a game (and it could only exist because of the games that inspired it). The sucker punch reveal of what LV and EXP really mean, and the way the game itself seemingly pushes back, trying to stop you when you do a Genocide run, can only be done in the medium of games. Something like an animated feature could still have the characters everyone loves, but its message could only have its full effect when the player makes those choices themself. The character the player plays as is such a blank, expressionless slate for this purpose. David Cage's games could very easily JUST be a movie because your choices and actions are so inconsequential (except Detroit, which is a step in the right direction. Your choices literally have more effect than in most Telltale games, lol).

[@lonebattledroid4474]

@@ExaltedUriel agreed

[@Shaggygottasneeze]

Despite Urick's rage, he's still trapped in David's Cage

[@tastydoomtime8890]

When will he ever excape

[@gamerguy6990]

Despite all my rage I’m still trapped in David’s cage

[@mackielunkey2205]

Poor Elliot Page

[@Christian-gr3gu]

Nice

[@angrybrony]

i fear the power of his stand "omikron".

[@dudemaister18]

"I want games to be more mature" just means "I'm deeply insecure of what film snobs say about my medium" for Cage

[@lukejones7164]

Facts 😆

[@Mamenber]

"Maturity is when sad things happen. The sadder the story, the maturer it is." - David Cage, probably

[@Chillerll]

Well the polls also voted for the industry is immature, even though I personally disagree, its hard to say its just Cages insecurities.

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@Chillerll i wouldnt trust people on twitter to know anything about video games. they barely know anything about their own lives.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@Chillerll Mature can also be many things. Even now I might still say games are not mature as a medium. Not because they're lacking artistic intent or because they cater to kids or anythings tupid like that. But because unlike written works and cinema games have much much much more space for the medium itself to develop the technology behind it to allow a plefora of more experiences to form. So its hard to just take a few polls (from samples of people with unknown amounts of experience with games) with definitions people will disagree on as matter of fact.

[@hacim42]

People who try to make games more mature by making them more like movies do not understand the medium to any degree. Movies didn't mature by making themselves more like books. They explored all the things they could do that other mediums couldn't. If they wanna make games "cinematic experiences", they should make MOVIES, and let people who want to make games make more developed and mature games.

[@cyb11114]

I think making games with cinematic experiences with actual choose that change the story and have actually different outcomes especially if they can be followed up into any squeals is an experience that no book or movie can have you can’t change those like other mediums and I know this is something that would take a ton of effort but If done well it can be magic the first walking dead game was as good or better then the show it’s follow ups (the walking dead season 2 and 3) changed what “choice” meant when you could say anything and get any outcome

[@Anonlyso]

@@cyb11114 low-key this is kinda what Visuals Novels are, tho most of the hallmarks of genre are perhaps less "your choice has story spanning consequences and you assert your agency through them" to "choose which girl's story you like and hope no one else dies in it" kinda. Well aside from You, Me and Her: A Love Story or Saya no Uta

[@cyb11114]

@@Anonlyso I would say maybe doki doki literature club is kinda more of what I mean but it only kinda effect the story the ending is always them same in general maybe more undertale different stuff kinda happen but really only real lanes to go down

[@yehuda8589]

@@Anonlyso Check out Your Turn to Die, it's an episodic (currently unfinished) visual novel inspired by Danganrompa and Zero Escape that actually has branching choices and stuff, it's really neat.

[@Sofiaode18]

@@yehuda8589 For real Your Turn to Die is so underrated and it amazes me that the whole game is free. Though I couldn't finish it because its visuals are disturbing as fu

[@uricksaladbar]

Detroit: Heavy Souls

[@liswatching3241]

You mad underrated man

[@perfyyy7262]

Heavy

[@cainhurst8740]

Detroit: Terrible Analogies

[@tastydoomtime8890]

MOM DAD GET IN HERE URICKS ON THE TV

[@delirious_z9987]

"beyond a stupid jedi girl"

[@X-SPONGED]

I find it funny that what people often call Cage's best work yet, Detroit Become Human. Only did so because Clancy Brown and Bryan Dechart did the impossible and improv-ed their way onto believability and shattered most of david's stupid writing choice for the connor arc. Making it the most liked part of the entire game.

[@BWMagus]

Clancy Brown, but yes.

[@mynamejeffgaming]

Was the part of the game I liked the least

[@esbenm6544]

@@mynamejeffgaming bad taste

[@domanskikid]

@ mrmyaccount1000 Yes we get it, you go against what’s most liked because your so quirky. 🙄

[@Raddish-IS-Radd]

​@@domanskikidokay but using that logic "you're so quirky for liking a part of the game someone probably didn't like 🙄" ever hear of an opinion my guy?

[@gunkwizardry]

David cage gets all of his story ideas from the "im 14 and this is deep" subreddit

[@somethingclever4297]

Couldn't say it better myself.

[@higaiwokeru]

I hate how all his references are on the fucking nose, like there’s no subtlety The robots at the back of the boss, the robots having to wear arm bands, the fucking robot concentration camp

[@somethingclever4297]

@@higaiwokeru don't forget a crowd going they took our jobs and the one black lady basically going "wow you guy's situation is similar to ours. It's almost like it's a metaphor."

[@WhaleManMan]

Every comment under every post on that sub is "damn this is true tho"

[@aidanaidan8662]

The Jesus robot forcibly giving robots sentience and free will just like blac- Hang on a minute the latter free will from birth

[@coffeelich5003]

Seeing Nathan shoot himself after not finding his family after so much effort and his family IMMEDIATELY running up to his ghost got a visceral "what?" from me.

[@Ramsey276one]

Excuse meWUT DAFU...! O_o

[@coffeelich5003]

I would have accepted it if there was any amount of time between him materializing as a ghost and finding his family, but they just kinda show up. Were they waiting for him? Did they forgive him? They all seemed happy so.... idk what the point of all that was.

[@Morhan_Jehnez]

It made my face numb, I sat in complete, "What the fuck" silence for a good 10 minutes.

[@inabi-kun113]

* plays sanctuary guardians *

[@Ramsey276one]

@@coffeelich5003 Same XD

[@MiloKuroshiro]

His writing is just a joke, from how he portrays women, his racial stereotyping, his lowbrown basic concepts that he hypes up for some reason, his fetishitization of poverty and the homelessness experience. He's not pushing the medium forwards. He doesn't understand the appeal or the tools on the medium. He's not doing 1/8 of what people like Kitty Horrorshow and Christoph Phey can do with no budget. Dude really thinks that he's an cult auter while just doing direct to TV garbage with a blockbuster budget.

[@cookiesandpudding8485]

Its the same exact problem with Detroit

[@summerrose8110]

@@cookiesandpudding8485 I liked the Detroit Become Human game. Never played it, but seeing playthroughs it looked cool.

[@jackdavenport5011]

@@summerrose8110etroit is better in some aspects but it still suffers from a lot of similar narrative problems as BTS. I’d recommend watching Urick’s video on DBH too.

[@xDrezi]

What is wrong with you

[@thecamelchannel1467]

@@summerrose8110 in my experience detroit become human is incredibly fun as long as you don't think about the story until the end, then you can safely realise it's utterly ridiculous after you've had fun

[@SaiScribbles]

All of David Cage's writing is like someone who has seen a bunch of American action movies and doesn't understand how they work. He writes like a teenager who thinks he's SUPER DEEP. Detroit is the best thing he's done and it's still not great, it owes its life to Clancy Brown and Bryan Dechart elevating his clunky writing with their brilliant acting and on set chemistry that shines through in the final game.

[@QuikVidGuy]

holy shit yes! it's like a lot of movies focus on spectacle to keep you from thinking too hard about their messages, but cage thinks he can put the ideas right in our face and expect us not to get uncomfortable but then does a whole bunch of intense sex crime scenes so we're even more uncomfortable

[@SaiScribbles]

@@QuikVidGuy Yeah as much as I enjoy Detroit on a sort of B-movie ironic level he still managed to get a scene in there where the sole female character is trapped and assailed by a creepy man. Gotta keep with tradition I guess.

[@theversacelife5232]

*secretly know you’re right* LEAVE DETROIT BECOME HUMAN OUT OF THIS 😭😭

[@MiiChanx]

Yeah, Clancy and Bryan's scenes feel so much more natural and more alive compared to the rest of the game. Don't even get me started on Markus and North's "romance" path, jesus christ, it's so forced and cringe. I can't deal. I wouldn't even like the game if there was no Connor and Hank.

[@SaiScribbles]

@@MiiChanx If the game was just Connor and Hank solving crimes it'd be 10/10 from me. When I streamed the game for my friends I deliberately shunned North at every turn and Markus STILL acted like he lost the love of his life when I let her die. Cage really didn't expect you to not go for it lol.

[@MariktheGunslinger]

The thing is, this game looked incredible at the film festival, where it was just the homeless sequence. It was an exercise in minimalism; a girl with paranormal abilities, homeless and alone, trying to survive. That was enough.

[@inplane9970]

Yep. Then suddenly she's going out working for the military, doing James Bond-style shit, and then saving the universe from evil spirits. Sometimes, more doesn't mean better.

[@sugarpapaelmo2004]

That would’ve made such a better plot then all this government is evil stuff and how it’s uwu sad feel bad for me

[@nerdymom2]

@@sugarpapaelmo2004 the government is evil dude.......

[@Deadsea_1993]

Yeah and that was a good part of the game. Well besides the random jerks that are there for no reason. Am I the only one that would have rather seen Jodie as a Native American that was abandoned due to her powers ? The Native American part was unique. The Cia plot was so damn used in the medium

[@MariktheGunslinger]

@@nerdymom2 Yeah, but it's never written in a way that feels interesting or compelling. The government does bad shit but it's almost always out of ignorance or neglect, not out of an innate desire to do evil.

[@thecopercoper5533]

David Cage is gaming's biggest hack. He clearly wants to make movies, but he's so terrible at it that makes movie-like games instead, ruining 2 genres at the same time.

[@lukejones7164]

Facts 😆

[@TheAnonim23]

Peter Molyneux is the biggest gaming hack. David Cage is no where near his level

[@Softpaw1996]

ruining would imply people disliking it. That isn't the case according to reviews.

[@Softpaw1996]

@Dan the Axolotl weren't talking about review sites.

[@hoganavajo]

I think miyamoto is a hack because his greatest achievement is an Italian plumber from Brooklyn and that's it.

[@MariktheGunslinger]

How to write a David Cage story: 1: Character is a dick for no reason 2: Someone does something unnecessarily dramatic for no reason

[@thatonelucariofan503]

3. Monotonous gameplay that gets changed slightly after something dramatic happens because uwu such deep lol

[@muskatDR]

4: Rape and/or rape attempt scene

[@nont18411]

I remember Blake from Heavy Rain who is cartoonishly evil. He tried to arrest Ethan for exactly no reason.

Get your women actors naked.

[@EriksBlue]

5. Bad guy is actually not that bad even thou he murder

[@kiraryuuza]

admiring the guy who decided to model an actress nude, and keep a big fucking portfolio of pictures he found of them in a scrapbook, probably not the best idea

[@vicentereyes8463]

Yeah, fiirst i thought he was just a bad game maker, but my opinion of him worsens the more i know of him.

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

its like yandev, theyre bad game designers AND bad people

[@Nick-mv5kg]

It was so fucking weird how he treated Elliot like an object but claimed he “respected” him

[@arkaua]

@@Nick-mv5kg Elliot?

[@DancingCrickets04]

@@arkaua Ellen Page (the actress) transitioned from Female to Male. His new name is Elliot.

[@zekka9999]

I know someone who works at Quantic Dream, and he told me how frustrating it is. Because David Cage makes his employees read his scenarios, and when everyone try to tell him how bad it is, he just doesn't listen to any form of constructive criticism and keeps his "visions" untouched. I remember my friend telling me how awkward it was when David Cage made people read something about gay characters he had written, and several real gay people tried to explain him the kind of homosexuality presented in his script wasn't realistic, gay people just don't behave in a way he had written. And he just kept it like that, because he apparently knew better. Imagine how awkward and offensive it must have been for those people. To this day, I have no idea how someone so incompetent can be directing such huge projects (yeah I know, money, but still).

[@tigrispanthera5496]

smh 🤦‍♀️ poor employees

[@niccotinepatch]

r/thathappened

[@NioFiota]

@@niccotinepatch That meme is dead and repetitive.

[@mongodroid4842]

@@niccotinepatch because people can never be friends with people in interesting positions, that's just impossible! after all, the REAL WORLD is BORING and SAD

[@manzanito3652]

Please, tell me that scene was discarted and won't appear on the next game.

[@buckbumble1872]

my first David Cage game was Detroit, and i went in completely blind. I was wondering what themes he would use the androids for...then in the first hour they showed a bunch of android being seated at the back of a bus, that's when i realized David's idea of subtle was a sledgehammer.

[@davantiowo6519]

Yeah... The games story itself is pretty weak, but 2 years later and i still think about Hank and Connor lol ( I love them so much 😭 )

[@ondiiina]

@@davantiowo6519 I felt like it was more "basic". The characters are likeable and decent. The whole experience is what makes the game good. The writing by itself and at face value? Sort of boring. It's hard to go wrong with something like that tho. At least he created a big world and hints of lore that makes the writing sort of better.

[@drakenfist]

@@ondiiina My biggest issue with the game is it betrays it's own principles. This game came about because so many were moved by the "Kara" trailer which shows Kara being built but then slowly becoming self aware. But instead we have this story of her being a nanny, and that just took away from her character and became about the girl instead Which is a shame cause. I REALLY wanted to see that story!. Apparently that was originally what he was going to do. But instead he gave her story to Marcus, which I think was a mistake. Marcus is the worst character of the three because he is less a character and more a idea. He is literally "the civil rights movement" android: i'm not kidding either. In the game's story, it's heavily hinted that the guy who created all the androids, got sick of what humans were doing and sent him to look after this art collector, hoping that the art collector would eventually cause him to break his programming, go nuts and lead a revolt.

[@ondiiina]

@@drakenfist I don't think they gave Kara's story to Markus. To me, it seemed that Kara was the first android who "woke up" and made the creator realize what he did and then he made sure others could "deviate". I felt like Kara did exactly what she promised him to do: not make waves and act as if she weren't sentient but at some point had to be rebooted. She's the proof androids can have free will but she isn't the one going to lead a revolution. Instead she tries to live her life and survive. Making the first sentient android the one leading a revolution is boring and sort of Mary Sue-like. It also makes our THREE characters important androids. Otherwise Kara is the odd one out. She has the bland, unrelated story. But she's a gal and they needed at least one female protagonist. So if you consider the trailer when looking at her story it's more about the first android finally knowingly disobeying humans, running to a place where she can be a person and saving a little human girl and giving her a chance at life just like that worker did for her. She has the emotional story. She's the one learning to love (though it seems like she already loves) and creating her family. It sounds like she's already further into learning emotions and not just because she's supposed to be a nanny. To me it's more interesting to not have her be a blatant Important Android and not link her to the Revolution Plot too much. But her story isn't handled well and can come across as the cliché girl story which is infuriating. The problem is that at no point we're reminded that Kara immediately became sentient in the first place and was probably the one "spreading" rA9. Even rebooted Kara immediately had the choice to deviate (something that should have been expended upon. Why does she now have the choice? Before she just came to be). There's nothing that shows us that everything isn't a part of Kara's programming apart from abandoning Alice (but you can argue her programming does not include android children). It doesn't read as if she didn't consider other choices because it isn't who she is or who she wants to be. We have no other android who no longer doubt themselves and are this defined as a person. Markus still has doubt and can be swayed (a big problem because of his damn upbringing like come on what about Karl?!) and Connor has a completely different programming. There's no subtlety in her story or at least there is nothing that makes us search and think deeper about her apart from the trailer and a little Easter Egg in the gallery. Kara IS in fact the Most Important Android but it's literally forgotten. How hard would hinting that Kara was already "free" before the plot be? Or like throwing another hint at what rA9 is with a throwaway line showing that SHE sort of knows. She knows it isn't her or at least doesn't think so (which we know because none of her actions lead to the Revolution). Tbh I don't think Kamski intended Markus to lead a Revolution. Personally I think that he wanted to see what it would take to make him deviate. Basically it was an experiment. Connor is the one MADE for deviation. Everything points to it. Kamski is involved in his creation, he might be the last android he designed. He definitely had enough of seeing what was happening to androids. I wish he even had a line pointing out that we're repeating the past but this time with something that can be much, much more dangerous. But no, fuck subtlety. Can't point out the obvious either because the writers genuinely believe that they were subtle with Markus. I agree that Markus is the worst. He is an idea. As a character has the worst writing for the protagonists. His time with Karl is literally forgotten. I absolutely REFUSE to believe he would hurt humans knowing most are good and most are also getting fucked over by society. He was raised to be kind, to think for himself, to be observant and to be a person. The fact he can get swayed by North is a sham. Maybe a few more violent choices should be available if Karl is dead or it's made CLEAR that Markus is angry at what happened but him outright declaring a war is so out of character. Kamski's choice was deliberate. He knew Karl and how he would act with an android. So sending him an early version of RK to see how it react and change makes more sense that him possibly ending humanity (and himself because no way North would not track him down). But the way Markus was handled AFTER he left Karl is shitty. To me THAT is when he became the civil rights movement android, the Robot Jesus. He lost what made him an interesting character (and whatever parallel there could have been with Kara) to the messenger of the plot and the fist used to punch the message into you. What I wouldn't do for some parallel with Kara in which we see how both could have turned out and chosen the opposite path. Like Markus could have left far away and live somewhere he could have been free and Kara could have stayed and led the revolution (or make a change. After all she's a very common, boring model while Markus is a special prototype of the strongest, most advanced line of models. I don't think she could have pulled the moves Markus did but her personality is stronger). Is it just me or is the writing worsening the more chapters pass for Kara and Markus? Connor was solid but they became weaker and weaker as time passed as if there was less work put into them. They become caricatures and clichés

[@smirglepapier531]

@@ondiiina what really infuriated me was the "reveal" that Alice was an android all along. It's not clever, it does not add anything of substance to the story. I would argue that it takes away so much from the story. It would have been so moving to see an android care for a human child, caring for her despite the way humans trat her. But oh well...

[@duchessofshinies4696]

My first experience with David Cage was watching Cryaotic play Beyond: Two Souls when I was a kid. I’m an adult now and am sad to see both those things are terrible.

[@nono9543]

Cry really was trying make himself look like a victim

[@ThePhreakass]

What happened with cryaotic?

[@arianamarks6586]

@@ThePhreakass cry was exposed for grooming and being a terrible shitbag

[@ThePhreakass]

@@arianamarks6586 Oh shit! Is this the reason he hasn't uploaded in ages? Man, and to think how nice he used to be in his LP's :(

[@asherlynn3635]

@@ThePhreakass I'm legitimately so sorry you had to find out this way bro. It hit me hard too.

[@spartandumpster1158]

Lyle on OneyPlays once said something that has really stuck with me, he was talking about Game of Thrones (specifically at the beginning), "if we never see your characters happy, why should we give a fuck when they're sad?" For me, when a story is just sadness throughout its entirety, I'll end up shutting off emotionally from it due to an overload, I can only feel so bad for these characters before it seems like their whole life is sadness at which point I disconnect from them. It's more impactful seeing characters go from happy to sad because we'll want to see them return to being happy, but if they go from sad to more sad with no hints they'll become happy, then the story feels pointless. I also think there's typically two mindsets audiences enter stories with, at least in terms of characters, where my mindset is typically "I'm a blank slate, make me like and care about your characters" and the other is "I like all characters from the start until you prove to me why I shouldn't." I used to have that latter mindset until I got older and more pessimistic and I shifted to the first. I can see how people with a predisposition to like main characters would enjoy this game, or at least its story, because they'll feel sad for Jodie the whole way through. When you need to be convinced why you should care about Jodie, however, you emotionally shut off from the main character because you're not playing a video game to make yourself sad.

[@hardygal2]

As someone who is in fact predisposed to like main characters and generally approaches stories with optimism in regards to whether or not I’ll like the characters involved in the story... I really do not care for Beyond: Two Souls or for Jodie. This is partially due to the fact that I honestly DO NOT LIKE bleak as hell stories that seem to only exist to punish you for ever wanting to be happy or for ever having felt happiness. This is also due to the fact that as far as Jodie goes, she is basically comprised of every trope thrown together to make me feel bad for her, many of which I don’t care for anyway, and instead of feeling bad for her, I’m just annoyed at the story for trying to make me feel bad.

[@billxrl4154]

I feel like most of people start out as the latter case, then once they mature they see stories with a more critical mind. I personally agree with you and Lyle in the sense that basically every work of art (or you could even say everything in life) is about contrast. You can't have just happyness or just sadness mainly because each one can't exist without the other. I you read a story that only consists of depressive and bleak scenarios you feel like there's nothing on display because the only contrast you have is your own human experience instead of the character's. .....Not a fan...

[@Here_is_Waldo]

I feel sadder for Aiden, personally. Poor bastard spends his entire existence unable to talk or really interact with anyone beyond a whiny, self-pitying pessimist. I know she has a hard life, but damn as someone who regularly falls into that pit of self-despair myself: you've got to push forward at some point.

[@wolflordbradley7353]

@@billxrl4154 This. I've been looking at a lot of things critically the last couple years. Seeing the shift in things. When u speak on it though, people get uncomfortable and try to shut me down. It's weird and unsettling.

[@ayrtonjoga]

I agree, just because a story is nothing but endless misery from beginning to end doesn't mean it's compelling or interesting, it's not even motivating or entertaining, imagine watching Spider-Man 2 but without the goofy and heartwarming scenes showing the positive side of being a hero? If instead was just an eternal downward spiral, ending on a sour note? My favorite moments, when playing a game or watching a movie, is when the characters stands up, faces their troubles, and finally deserves a happy or a redeemable ending

[@gasterblaster9817]

As a certain punctuationless game reviewer once said: "David Cage has only one tool in his storytelling arsenal and it is a giant sledgehammer with the word MELODRAMA written down the side. His stories always play out like rampant human misery simulators as written by someone who's never met any human beings."

[@Disissid19]

That one paragraph plays in my head everytime I look at anything david cage related

[@Ushakov_Mykyta]

One let's player once described how David Cage writes his games: "first, he writes a piece of dialogue, then a scene around that dialogue, then a plot for that scene. That's why all his stories feel so disjointed and none of them make a lick of sense if you think about them for 2 minutes".

[@Disissid19]

@@Ushakov_Mykyta I write stories alright. I'm not gonna pretend that what I write is even decent. But after playing david cave's games. It gives me great relief to say that there is someone way older and way worse than me at writing a story

[@cari6459]

am i the only one who thought it was weird that Ryan starting to show interest in Jodie when she became of legal age... when he knew her and technically had her under his protection when she was a child?

[@murciadoxial8056]

... I didn't notice that... O H G O D

[@cari6459]

@@murciadoxial8056 yeah. And he also treats her terribly until his “crush” on her begins. He stops treating her like an immature child and treats her differently.

[@murciadoxial8056]

@@cari6459 And if you don't pick Navajo, the game also refuses to let you break up with him no matter how hard you try

[@PALACIO254]

Oh Mr. Cage you cad

[@cursedapostate3705]

OH FU-

[@TwilightWolf032]

Whenever a writer for video games or cartoon reboots claims for "maturity" in the media they write for, they are usually the ones treating the subjects they talk about with the least amount of maturity one could ask for. Meanwhile, other games or cartoons geared towards children treat sensitive subjects and the audience with far more respect and dignity than any of these writers can manage to.

[@FullArcher05]

You’re right. David Cage is nowhere near mature when he says shit like “In my games, women are whores.” and “At Quantic Dream, we do not make games for (homophobic slur)”. Because dehumanizing stereotypes are totally mature.

[@CheshireCad]

Avatar TLA was written for children. But it still expressed the horrors of war and fascism in a way that even children could understand. It was forced by its medium to be careful and deliberate. Meanwhile, a more "mature" rated medium can just shove a mountain of dead bodies in the viewer's face and shout "This is sad! War is bad! Sad bad! Sbad!"

[@Chillerll]

It true. It's coming from a place that says content for children is underneath us and not complex enough while ironically a lot of people that create children content manage to make it complex enough to be still enjoyable for adults. Maybe the real problem is games trying to be too "mature".

[@tooFarGonexk4he4tu3s]

Makes me think of Bloober team

[@thecorbohole3637]

The "let us die" scene drives me up a fucking wall. Imagine if instead of saying anything and hitting us with awkward hyper-dramatic camera angles she just screamed in pain. You convey the exact same information faster, arguably more dramatically, and launch me out of the scene way less.

[@1000drman]

God thinking about that is bone chilling too bad he didn't do that

[@ShadowBuu44]

damn, this would have been way more effective to both the audience and Nathan. imagine hearing the souls of your loved ones screaming in sheer agony because of something you did.

[@sharontafoya2878]

I think what remains of Edith finch did the whole “interactive narrative” type game really well. Not only were the stories you uncovered interesting and memorable, but it also handled heavier themes well. It also incorporated the gameplay into the themes like the character whose fantasies consumed his life, and you had to juggle the mundane with the fantasy as the player.

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

I think it helps that it also leaves more up to the player and doesn’t just give out the answer. For as mature as David Cage says he is, a lot of his stories are stupidly, obnoxiously blunt with their messaging and ideas, which makes for a lesser experience in both storytelling and analysis. Several of the deaths in Edith Finch are not fully explained or explored, are told through biased parties or through someone unable to fully grasp the mentality of the character. The whole “family curse” is up in the air as to whether or not it’s real or if it’s simply decades of undiagnosed mental health problems that they refuse to fix or solve. And it makes it interesting to talk about compared to Cage’s work.

[@star22sally67]

It's kind of funny, when you realize that it's just a walking simulator, yet it gives a better, mature, and more engaging story that beyond two souls.

[@hoganavajo]

Eden fish was an interesting game while it lasted. Not as good as every other quantic dreams game I played but experimentally it brought something fresh and special. But at the end it didn't last in its impression. There was something flaky superficial and usa-American about it on a deeper level.

[@lifeunderthestarstv]

This. Mature themes in gaming are great. Bad writing is the issue here. The guy has great ideas. But he isn't a great writer.

[@yari4046]

"I MISS THEM, I MISS THEM SO MUCH" truly the words of somebody that has spent the last decade trying to bring his family back to life, stellar writing Cage!

[@turbobist2889]

I miss my wife Tails.

[@a.k8185]

@@turbobist2889 *Shotgun clank*

[@CWINDOWSsystem32]

"David Cage, you've done it again!" -RTGame

[@sunbleachedangel]

Anyway, how is your sex life

[@itsyaboyjigglyjimmy]

@@sunbleachedangel failing

[@ventusxzephyr13]

"Do you think the video game industry is mature?" Me playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure: Yes.

[@MoroFuoro]

me who played hello kitty big city dreams: I agree with you

[@TheAzCorner]

Nonironically i think three apples tall Hello Kitty are more mature than devid cege's attempts

[@benlev3375]

I still replay Ratchet and Clank, The Bratz game, Spongebob BtfB and Barnyard once in a while. Kids game can also be great games.

[@higaiwokeru]

@@TheAzCorner they are probably more subtle as well

[@near-0907]

The whole "aren't you feeling bad yet" trend in games nowadays make me tired. Instead of exploring their subject matter they instead show you or make you do something purposely shocking or unfun to condescendingly looking down on you and pretending to be something more than the video game equivalent of Thirteen Reasons Why

[@helloenemy]

For sure. Most games that try to do this end up falling so flat and it takes me and I’d assume other players out of the game.

[@Xanegoh]

I feel the same about games that are psychological horror with the veneer of cutesy anime. Hey look, it's a wholesome slice of life visual novel with fun charact-and they're cutting their wrists.

[@akaiyoru2681]

And is it just me, or isn't it pathetic when the basically only choices that matter in these games are those at the very end?

[@TheShockVox]

The Last of Us 2 was when I really felt fatigued on that. I didn’t notice I was tired of it, but my brain did.

[@ヒラガナ-e5d]

@@Xanegoh “games” you mean, just that one game? Doki Doki Literature Club did not spawn an entire genre as far as I know. If you’re simply referring to the “seemingly cute world becomes suddenly creepy” genre of horror games as a whole, I understand, but it’s weird to throw just DDLC under the bus like that when it actually had a proper explanation and setup.

[@jonathangarcia5279]

39:38 She shouldn't be smiling at this. She just watched a man kill himself.

[@tigrispanthera5496]

i mean suicide = happy so

[@danielboyd6927]

Jodie (who worked for the CIA and has literally seen death her whole life) watched her caretaker who was literally going crazy reunite with his family and finally see straight. The Nathan that pulled the trigger was a completely mad shell of his past self. She was happy to see him be released and to see him truly happy

[@summerrose8110]

@@danielboyd6927 That's not something to smile at. I'm not a writer, but if I was Jodie would be clinically depressed and traumatized.

[@danielboyd6927]

@@summerrose8110 Yeah dude cause the intense repeated trauma that she went through wouldn’t prepare her for something like that. Nathan didn’t die he went to an amazing afterlife

[@greenherb3229]

​@@danielboyd6927So what your saying is, suicide solves all the problems and everyone should do that to reunite with dead people who have a high chance of not knowing/remembering you whatsoever and your mental illnesses get magically removed too? I seriously don't understand why he is not crazy and why his family (who were TORTURED by him in the story, begging him to stop and not even recognizing him anymore) suddenly comes immediately to hug him after shooting himself. That's not usually something to smile at, if Cage was a better writer then it'd be more interesting to see Nathan break down at the fact that despite trying so hard he ultimately became too different and his family leave him forever because y'know, HE NEARLY CAUSES THE END OF THE WORLD?

[@Channel-gz9hm]

The "I'm such an artist" crowd that spends all their time whining that video games aren't mature as a medium have exclusively associated themselves, in my mind, with creative flunkies that weren't good enough for real film and television so now want to LARP in video games by making movie"games" and they need to be taken seriously, like, right now.

[@dracocrusher]

Turns out most people who want to make serious media don't go on and on about how much they want to make something serious. They just make it and then their work speaks for itself. Meanwhile, David Cage makes games about zombie robots walking around and making monster noises while one of them directly turns to the camera and says "Who are the real monsters here?" In terms of seriousness, it's some of the most loony-tunes crap I've ever seen.

[@Roboshi2007]

I wanna quote one great review of a david cage game "david wouldn't hack it as a film director, ironically because he's a hack"

[@557deadpool]

In other words, the Kojima Effect

[@dracocrusher]

@@557deadpool Honestly, Kojima is so insane and cheesy that I'd easily watch a Kojima movie, it'd basically be a really crazy high-concept B movie with some really interesting ideas and themes and that's something that definitely has an audience. I can't really imagine anybody going to watch Indigo Prophecy or Detroit as a serious movie, but I could easily see MGS4 doing pretty well as an anime series or something, because that style of over the top storytelling is basically what those games are trying to be, 100%.

[@557deadpool]

@@dracocrusher yeah but that means having to watch a Kojima movie....CBT is a preferable option

[@Докторпарадокс]

"Game over is a failure of the designer" Farenheit: literally has game overs

[@mikekazz5353]

Don't forget about Omicron plus the save rings (ink ribbons done wrong)

[@TanatatKnight246]

“and that’s how my story ends”

[@YouSoSpice]

welcome in omikron

[@Eureka_seveN77]

@@mikekazz5353 oops I spent all my saves on hints

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

“Game over is a failure of the designer” is good for movies, since the protag failing at a random time due to some stupid thing in a movie in the middle of a climactic moment would be kind of underwhelming and possibly unrewarding if not handled carefully and not communicated to the audience why this happened. In a game that requires or encourages the agency or skill of the player (and doesn’t trick you like telltale’s games), getting game over may be a failure of the designer if the game is so blatantly unfair or perceived as BS. But if the game is actually fair, then it’s probably on the player for making too many mistakes or just flat out failing in the challenge the developers put out to them. And a lack of difficulty or true agency in a game that sets itself up as a challenge or something where your choices matter can make a player feel like they’re being cheated or coddled. But taste is taste, and with it the amount of mistakes you are allowed to make may vary, from games like Pokemon Sword and Shield which are super easy if you play through them at least semi optimally (to the point where fans looking for more challenge have to make rulesets like nuzlockes to have some sort of difficulty) to some others like Dark souls which are very punishing of mistakes.

[@ClintYeastwood420]

Holy Christ man. I just finished Beyond Two Souls with my friend and I can’t fucking believe that it exists in the way it does. The emotional climax of the game (Meeting Nathan by the Black Sun) ended with, to me and my friend, the message that killing yourself is the best option and only has good consequences. Holy shit man. Like…. I can’t believe the story and game itself was so mishandled.

[@henotic.essence]

For real. As someone who has gone through lengthy periods of active suicidal ideation, this was SUCH a dangerous scene to be presented. Like, god damn. I understand this world isn't meant to protect you and blah blah blah, but the execution of harsh scenes is what matters. This could not have been done more poorly.

[@kiillabytez]

People play games to have fun, and to me, the game accomplished just that. I've seen a lot of bad movies in my life. A LOT. Quantic Dream "games" are kinda on the borderline between great film (Amadeus, or LotR, for instance) to really bad ones, (Blair Witch Project, Batman vs Superman, etc).

[@ClintYeastwood420]

@@kiillabytez I don’t know about that, I had some fun with it, but I didn’t enjoy like half of it. Its like if the Room didn’t have a goofy main character the whole time and instead was only stupid like half of the time. Also I don know that you can just claim that the film responsible for popularizing found footage in general is “really bad”

[@kiillabytez]

@@ClintYeastwood420 Not everyone sees things the same, otherwise we'd all be characters in a David Cage game.

[@CheshireCad]

Almost every "I just want to revive my family from the afterlife" villain plot falls apart for that very reason. Because once it's established that there's an afterlife, then all someone needs to do to see their deceased loved ones again is to... do the thing which they literally can't avoid doing: Die. The most reasonable solution to the villain's problem is to just end their own life and immediately see their loved ones again, or at least endure life without them while waiting for their life to inevitably end. It literally makes suicide the most sensible option, with the next best option being guaranteed anyway. But somehow, these grief-stricken geniuses keep choosing the third option, to spend years/decades planning to cause an apocalypse, to accomplish something that was already going to happen. There are "afterlife caveats" that can be written to avoid this, but those usually come across as ham-fisted kludge fixes. Or this scenario can be used as a lesson that it's better to live a full life than to dwell on what was lost, but that would require a competent writer.

[@maxmad7641]

WHY DOES THE GUY WHO CAUSED THE APOCALYPSE GET A HAPPY ENDING LIKE WHAT, at snap of a FINGER . Wh a t?.

[@nont18411]

Yeah, what’s the message David Cage really want to say?

[@ramiel3759]

m e l o d r a m a

[@TheHalogen131]

At a pull of a finger in that instance, but yes.

[@pennanthony4689]

It always feels like a slap in the face when someone says that a video game looking like a movie makes it great. It's pretty much like if someone made a really good manga and everyone says "Wow, it's just like a book!"

[@NoiseFlippin]

Your statement isn't getting enough attention

[@porassrivastava8242]

The most emotional I felt about a game I think was when I first finished shadow of colossus, a game actively telling you to engage to the world with minimum explanation and when you connect the dots at the end it shocks you. Katana zero was another game which really hit me recently and it was made by one man. Games are amazing and should never compromise to attract more people or compromise to be more cinematic.

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

@@porassrivastava8242 katana zero is AMAZING omg

[@Hat-Trick]

Anyone remember firewatch? A “game” everyone was raving about until they realised it had a shitty ending and then suddenly everyone hated it. People can’t put together the idea that just because you can move a character, it doesn’t mean you’re playing a game. At best it’s an interactive storybook and when the story sucks, they realise they were wasting their time walking back and forth and get mad. Walking simulators man, triPLe A mAstErPieCes I tEll yoU!!!!!

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

@@Hat-Trick wait that game had a bad ending?? im not the biggest fan of walking simulators outside of like. what happened to edith finch but i thought people liked that game

[@littledewdroplets]

The thing I hated most in this game was that not even the selling point is real. The whole point of playing a Quantic Dream game is supposed to be that your actions tailor the story, right? THEN WHY DID THE GAME KEEP PUSHING A RELATIONSHIP WITH RYAN? I did everything, EVERYTHING I could to push it in the opposite direction, just for the romance to be there anyways. What's the point? Also, the Navajo part was ridiculous. It reeks of the white knight trope, but it's to such an exaggerated degree I don't think I've ever seen it be grosser.

[@SotiCoto]

On the upside, the game has a few points where you can just make Ryan suffer for apparently no reason, and I took EVERY one of those opportunities. And the Navajo chapter was really awkwardly racist. It was like "Let's just throw a bunch of random native american sounding stuff together and make a mighty-whitey plot, and it has nothing to do with the rest of the story".

[@Berd]

this was very super interesting thank u

[@dovahkiin_brasil]

Hi

[@TrisStrudel]

Berdyond Two KZbinrs

[@biker_buckets3629]

Honestly berd you deserve a surreal RPG about you my man you are a fucking masterpiece

[@Just_a_wrench]

Hello there

[@cabig9838]

@@biker_buckets3629 lisa the berdful

[@bernardosales1044]

David Cage can write stories with the emotional maturity of the average Riverdale fan

[@CrocvsGator]

Sometimes I remember that the comic series that show spawned from literally has The Punisher and The Predator among its cast. I wonder if they just threw them in the show would it make things better or worse?

[@GabrielCosta-xt1dv]

@@CrocvsGator I wonder if the comics are actually good and the show writers are just bad or the original material is also that meh

[@tarotsushima3332]

@@GabrielCosta-xt1dv The comics, at least the original old ones, were more slice of life comedy. Those were the ones I grew up with so seeing Riverdale's grittiness really threw me off

[@murciadoxial8056]

David cage is the zack snyder of vidjagaems.

[@fanaticaH]

His stories are just riverdale, period.

[@thenotsodemocraticrepublic7731]

David Cage’s games fell like a movie director tried to make a video game without understanding what makes video games good or different.

[@ForeverLaxx]

Really feels like a failed director/writer who could never get anyone to go with his scripts found a medium with a much smaller barrier of entry stuffed full of "reviewers" who have an even worse grasp on storytelling.

[@Neodeleux]

You're giving Cage wayyy too much credit by refering to him as movie director-like.

[@kiillabytez]

No. I believe he just wanted to make movies, but saw the incredible financial payout of the video game industry.

[@thedeliveryboy1123]

And vice versa

[@kiillabytez]

@@thedeliveryboy1123 Either, or. He's kinda like the Blumhouse of the video game industry.

[@righteousgreek2161]

Nathan’s plot point is the same as king pin in “into the spider-verse”

[@kirometer]

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who'd thought that

[@YeahAlright1983]

Shoulder touch

[@RogueFox2185]

Too bad Kingpin didn’t bite the bullet in that movie, he’s sturdy as hell.

[@mackielunkey2205]

@@YeahAlright1983 Hey

[@wenbluepirate3954]

@Eevee * spaidermin

[@YoshuaYoshoka]

Knew those community posts were leading to this

[@TheRealSplexy]

well arent you just a little sherlock holmes

[@YoshuaYoshoka]

@@TheRealSplexy yes, I do process the basic intelligence

[@Rexodiak]

the streams too

[@TheRealSplexy]

@@YoshuaYoshoka by your name, it dont seem like it

[@MrPanGonzo]

@@TheRealSplexy damn

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

"I want to make games more mature" Bioshock series says Hi

[@Ohmargod]

Even Crono Trigger is a lot more mature then Beyond Two Souls

[@thecopercoper5533]

Oh, you sweet summer child...

[@CyberSpider35]

Lol they as mature as hottopic kids from 2007. Not very much.

[@CyberSpider35]

Your beloved Bioshock (Infinite I mean) also says: "Death is solution to all your and world's problems".

[@grimgrahamch.4157]

@@CyberSpider35 Infinite also had a good character arc and a subtle political message about the dangers of extremist thinking. I'd say that mature writing.

[@purcellworthman3199]

there's this really great Alan Moore quote about comics, "if all we ever attempt to be is film, the best we'll be is films that don't move." I feel it's the same way about games. They'll never be "mature" as a medium until they can grow out of the shadow of what came before.

[@SK-ww7ud]

I think Detroit is one of the most predictable stories I've ever seen on any path, but the performances, particularly Clancy Brown and Bryan Dechart, are really good and that's what makes the game, at least for me. There were a lot of plot holes like you pointed out and it seems the majority of the community, myself included only really cared about Connor and Hank. It would be interesting to see a version where you only get Connor's perspective where as you and Hank pursue Markus and Kara you discover what's been going on and learn more about deviants instead of immediately having a sympathetic perspective.

[@zOMGGaiaOnline]

I think its just colloquial that a buddy cop centric D:BH wouldve garnered more love but have much less of what Cage strived for, maybe

[@1810jeff]

David Cage always makes games that are fun to mock and that is more than I can give a lot of games with bad stories.

[@tylerulfmann4586]

I just love the best friends channel playing bingo with the plot it’s great

[@sevdawolf6477]

Bryan Dechart and Clancy Brown are fantastic actors

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

Detroit fixes some of the issue of Cage’s work, but he still can’t get over his need to just shove EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink into a game. If Detroit was just a game about robots becoming sentient, then I wouldn’t really have issue with it, but then the fact it turns into essentially an allegory for civil rights and misses that wide, wide mark is where it falls apart. Also that implying peaceful protest always gets results even when a more antagonistic route is justifiable.

[@shingshongshamalama]

David Cage: "Video games need to be MORE MATURE and only I can do it." David Cage: *apes good movie makers while having zero understanding of them himself* David Cage: *has a character who exists purely to get chased around in her undies by ninjas*

[@Jokoko2828]

The man made Indigo Prophecy, he's as mature as a puddle.

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

What was that third one again?

[@simonediliberto4314]

@@meloneatingwolf1882 Madison from Heavy Rain

[@keriz6776]

@@simonediliberto4314 they are nightmares and hallucination of her, also she had insomnia

[@sebastianbronowicki7073]

​​@@keriz6776which only exist in that one scene and as an excuse for why she operates out of a motel, rather than instead her doing so because she's there to get a scoop on the origami killer, which, mind you, is EXACTLY what she's already doing anyway

[@mackielunkey2205]

Nathan’s “death is nothing” line is absolutely hilarious.

[@MediaGhost_]

Death is nothing is a failure of the death designer

[@mackielunkey2205]

@@MediaGhost_ Isn't death technically nothing?

[@unnimari768]

Unintentional hilarity is the best hilarity.

[@mackielunkey2205]

@@unnimari768 Agreed!

[@dummy9060]

“You heAr me?!”

[@ChimeraMK]

I haven't played the game but let me get this straight, a girl with powers went to a party, got ostracized for being different, probably kills someone trying to escape, and then a few years later goes through a rebel punk phase because she wants to experience that again?

[@TheDrLeviathan]

And she almost gets sexually assaulted in a bar by the patrons. And the exact same thing happens, with Aiden possessing a guy with a shotgun and killing them all. So, yeah, you're spot on.

[@MoostachedSaiyanPrince]

Basically, David Cage writing for women in a nut shell. He has an uncomfortable tendency to put women characters in situations where they can be sexually assaulted. Like, I think Detroit Become Human is one of the only games with his name on it where this scenario doesn't play out. Although I'm fairly certain that certain endings for a specific character will result in that happening off screen even though it isn't made as blatant as it is in other games.

[@ChimeraMK]

@@MoostachedSaiyanPrince Although I'm focusing more on the fact that traumatic childhood incident(s) don't seem to have any affect on her mental growth. The girl can probably murder someone at age 6 and not have any emotional baggage.

[@8888BALL]

@@MoostachedSaiyanPrince Didn't that happen in the Eden Club and with North though?

[@MoostachedSaiyanPrince]

@@8888BALL Kinda of? It's not exactly the same for a couple of reasons. It's a lot harder to say that this actually happens in Detroit, even if there is kind of a case for it. Because if I remember right, you're either the character being assaulted, or doing the assaulting in Cage's other games. In Beyond Two Souls, Heavy Rain, and I think MAYBE Indigo Prophecy (I really don't remember if it happens in this one), the player controls the woman being assaulted. And in Omicron you, as the player, can sleep with another person's wife while possessing his body, kinda like what happened in Wonder Woman 1984 except the woman doesn't know someone is in control of her husband and the husband is as good as dead because you can't leave a possessed person's body until they die. As for Detroit, I'm not sure either of those count. To start with, whether or not you consider the androids to be truly alive (and thus can actually be a victim of something like this) in these scenarios is a matter of opinion, as some people don't see them as being anything more than a tool in the game or even in real life, especially given that some of the deeper lore and endings of the game imply that they aren't alive and that their free will is a lie. And none of that happens on screen in Detroit, it's told to Conner and Markus that North and the Eden Club lovers were assaulted before they became part of the story, but it doesn't happen in any real proximity to the player or the story beyond just establishing the motives of a handful of characters. But in Cage's other games I mentioned, it's something that happens to the female character controlled by the player as a consequence of failing to safely escape from a particular scenario. Or at least it implies that's what's going to happen. There's one near the beginning of Heavy Rain where the character is attacked by home invaders while she's in nothing but her underwear after she got out of the shower, although that turns out to be a dream, but there's also a scene later where she ends up in the basement of a serial killer in a scenario that she CAN die in, and it's pretty heavily implied he's into necrophilia. Meanwhile, the player controlled character in Beyond Two Souls is attacked by a bunch of guys in a biker bar, and while I don't think you can lose in this scenario, the game is fairly explicit in letting you know why the bikers are attacking her. So it's something that does exist in Detroit, but it's nowhere near as blatant or creepy as in Cage's other works.

[@juljul184]

it could've been so much more emotionally impactful if nathan realized in the end that jodie could've been a daughter to him, but he never treated her like a person. she was a means to an end. he is a man chasing after something that can't be brought back. and in the end, he not only realizes he wasted time chasing dead people, but he also wasted his time treating this girl who could've been his new family like a tool.

[@dustrose8101]

You could even expound on that by having him be pretty fatherly to Jodie at first, he has a soft spot for her because he also has a daughter etc etc, and then when his family dies that when he starts to get obsessed with using her like a tool.

[@mochiandturtles5642]

We were robbed of natural tragedy

[@moliomotiejus6412]

"I like it when my videos games aren't trying to be movies" - Mandaloregaming

[@denseaf1582]

One of my favorite of his quotes, right next to “You can’t out-rice the Chinese.”

[@fiendish9474]

@@denseaf1582 it takes an Asian to outrice an Asian

[@dovahkiin_brasil]

@@denseaf1582 unless you are Vietnan. They are called the rice fields for a reason

[@denseaf1582]

@@dovahkiin_brasil WELCOME TO THE RICE FIELDS

[@juliet4093]

I’d like if they tried to be movies if they were good movies

[@benjaminarnold51]

"I'll hopefully witness a David Cage game I consider mature." Narrator: He will not witness such a game.

[@jackdavenport5011]

23:43 honestly besides the “gaah”, Elliot and Willem’s performance is honestly really good. You can tell they’re doing their best despite how garbage the dialogue is. I honestly blame David more for not deciding to do another take for some of the more awkward line deliveries.

[@ButterflyHakan]

"Eliott" hahahaha

[@joyflameball]

@@ButterflyHakan Yeah that's his name

[@ButterflyHakan]

@@joyflameball "his" LMFAO hahaha

[@G0ldKiss]

​@@ButterflyHakanbro what's your problem

[@eschelar]

No, the actress in the lead role of this game is billed as Ellen. Not Elliot. The role is a female being played by a female named Ellen. Just because she went crazy and thinks she's a toaster strudel now doesn't mean you give in and call her a toaster strudel. She is not a toaster strudel. You can't change the past. Not even if you are delusional.

[@azathothbaudelaire1642]

I’m surprised that no one made the joke connection that Aiden is basically Jodie’s stand.

[@Zelda00Gamer]

Oh they have. Check out super best friends play's LP of this game.

[@fenrisvermundr2516]

Jodie Joestar. The bland and boring Joestar.

[@ToruKun1]

@@Zelda00Gamer Jodie: [kills her comatose mom] Woolie: NOW NO ONE CAN DEFEAT ZA WARUDO!

[@samiam7327]

*Awaken intensifies*

[@aithanleeom5152]

Wait so how is Aiden connected to Jodie again?

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

David Cage’s idea of maturity almost feels like he’s insecure about his own industry. Which is fitting since most of the critics who always deluge his games with perfect praise also are insecure about THEIR industry, because there is a stigmatized belief that games can’t be mature in any way other than the most superficially charged ones. I’ve gotten more emotional reaction out of one scene from a mostly fun-time action game like Katana Zero than I have from any of Cage’s games, because it actually felt genuine. It felt like something that wasn’t made with the specific intent to force an emotion out of me through manipulative writing or generally inept attempts at making me sympathize with a character simply because they’ve been abused or hurt. Cage is that guy who would make the overdone statement of “X animated (usually Pixar) movie isn’t for kids” , because he’d be too ashamed and insecure to just say he enjoyed a movie that was made for a family/child audience and needs to specifically group it as something else entirely.

[@theheavenlyfb4071]

Cage's comments feel like they come from someone who would look at The Incredibles and just think it's some superhero kids movie when it's actually about a man going through a mid-life crisis. Hell, there's a scene where a kid would think that his wife is just suspicious of him but an adult would look at it and know she thinks he's cheating on her.

[@asisin2]

Thing is his industry is movies not games, he has no qualification to talk about gaming when all he does is glorified hallways with qtes.

[@theheavenlyfb4071]

@@asisin2 Give Final Fantasy 13 credit, it might have been a hallway sim for most of it but at least it was an actual game you could play instead of an interactive movie like anything Cage produces.

[@asisin2]

@@theheavenlyfb4071 got nothing against FFXIII, may not be a traditional FF but it did its own thing, looked great and has a kickass ost.

[@theheavenlyfb4071]

@@asisin2 Oh I know, I just wanted to point out how a lot of people shit on FFXIII for being a "hallway sim" but give anything David Cage makes a pass when FFXIII is ironically more of a game than anything Cage makes.

[@UndyingZombie]

David Cage basically seeks to make a type of virtual novel game without realizing that they are a thing.. and there are a lot of damn good ones that have better creators than he could ever hope to be a fraction of.

[@primroseprom]

I think that would be super interesting to see. Not because I enjoy his stories, but rather because I’m curious to see what a visual novel would look like if it had hyper realization 3D graphics you typically see in Cage’s games.

[@GodzookyDookie]

Terrible game aside, I absolutely adore your editing and art. Every single one of your videos is just so pleasing to look at

[@Geck0GC]

I misread it as "terrible art aside" and was about to flame you.

[@GodzookyDookie]

@@Geck0GC Oh lord no

[@mistertagomago7974]

I love Ulrichs use of art and editing.

[@jaytonius560]

There wasn’t a single character I liked in this game. Everyone was either an idiot, a psychopath, or a jerk.

[@dummy9060]

Or bland and forgettable

[@jaytonius560]

@@dummy9060 That too.

[@vivvy_0]

the mute granma was cute

[@jaytonius560]

@@vivvy_0 Cute, if underdeveloped.

[@sethleoric2598]

Ngl watching this makes it looks like a crappy Netflix show

[@axie545]

1) Ryan is Jodie's direct superior and almost ten years older than her, meaning he almost certainly groomed her into liking him. This could have created a more impactful story where she realizes he's just another monster in her life out to use her and vehemently denies him the ability, but instead the game pushes transparently hard to get her to be with him even though he never seems to understand or show actual remorse (besides a lukewarm apology) for what he did to her. 2) I don't really understand why the game seems to think "oh he was insane, but now he's sane and good again," is an excuse that makes everything Nathan did okay?? Mental illness is an EXPLANATION for behavior, it doesn't just mean you can say "oh, you can't blame me tho, I was anxious/depressed/manic/splitting/rsd/etc.," and you can't be held accountable or forced to experience the consequences of your actions. People died because of what Nathan did!! And yet he doesn't so much as apologize, and instead puts it all on Jodie to fix his mistake, like he always does! He has literally never done anything but treat her like an object and ask her to do things she hates doing "for him," as if they have some kind of close relationship even though he has never demonstrated any interest in her happiness or desires for herself. WHY DOES CAGE WRITE EVERY WOMAN LIKE THIS, AS IF HER FEELINGS DO NOT MATTER oh wait i'm guessing because it's never occurred to him that a woman's feelings about her situation might be anything more than passing hysteria that she'll "get over" eventually and continue to support everyone in her life no matter how they treat her 3) jodie's guitar isn't plugged into the amp how is she wrecking cole's eardrums, are the mics in her room that sensitive and why would the science men need to hear things that happen in her room so clearly that's so fUCKING CREPP

[@sky-nk8ko]

THANK YOU I fcking hate Ryan and Nathan, they did nothing but use her, it was so obvious how the game was pushing the player to get with Ryan like nooo thank you, get this creepy ass groomer as far away from Jodie as possible!!! 😷😷😷

[@thehermit8618]

David Cage is a mysoginist and not even the fun kind that you can laugh at, more the "awkward silence at the dinner table" kind

[@bell5248]

@@thehermit8618 is he?

[@thehermit8618]

@@bell5248 he has gone on record saying "all women in my games are wh*res"

[@valhatan3907]

@@bell5248 he is

[@mc895]

ANOTHER VIDEO I SHALL WATCH INSTEAD OF DOING MY HOMEWORK

[@uricksaladbar]

Do your homework

[@Hello_There820]

Please do your homework.

[@ihvojd]

Education first

[@Accerimo]

Do homework then reward yourself with this video.

[@mc895]

Dont worry I did my homework while watching it. Your voice is very relaxing!

[@Silent_Mochi]

39:23 honestly the suicide scene could've worked if it was an alternate outcome and not the scripted scene For example, he kills himself, but instead of being with the wife and kid, he breaks down cause he can't find them still The wife and kid doesn't recognize him so he can't see them If he does a sacrifice or realize he did wrong Than we get the scene where they hug Idk I'm just spitballing ideas rn

[@Knoaboa]

Thats actually a way beter scenario than what we got, here he just killed himself and gets what he wants??? And is sane again?? xD

[@cool64378]

Honestly the scene right before that, where he has to come to terms with the fact that he's hurting his family just to be with them is actually emotionally effective for me. If they didn't botch his conclusion so hard he could have been the one character with a good arc.

[@PurpleMoon799]

its actually very sad imagining what kids who might play this game might learn from this.. jesus

[@LilyGrace1990]

I lost my twin so this game hit me differently and I love the concepts in it. But yeah, the execution kinda sucks. I wish they had delved into Jodie's feelings of loneliness and feeling like something is missing in addition to a weird connection with Aiden even she can't really explain. That would explain her connection with him far more effectively than "girl has powerful buddy" for 9 and a half hours before the truth is revealed, and it reflects a lot of surviving twins' experiences of feeling like something in their life is missing and trying to find it only to realize they have to deal with a loss they don't remember head on. It's really rough and would make a great side plot to a game. I wish this game had done it effectively because it's unexplored territory.

[@henotic.essence]

Damn they really dropped the ball on that one. I'm really sorry this was such a missed opportunity for you. Perhaps there are great fiction books on this topic you could take a look into? I hope you can find something that will "scratch that itch" so to speak! Blessings 🙏

[@evilminionnumber2]

The "game over" statement reminds me of the old Lucas Arts VS Sierra adventure games argument. In Sierra games, dying is a part of the experience and a part of fun things to find when you're exploring. In Lucas Arts, they see dying as a way to punish exploring and will give you funny but not game ending results. The Lucas Arts style is the more popular one for modern adventure games. I honestly don't know why it works there but not as well in David Cage games.

[@BannerMirror501]

Lucas Arts adventure games also didn’t take themselves as seriously, most of the games were pretty cartoony which could explain why death was non existent in them.

[@evilminionnumber2]

@@BannerMirror501 Sierra games had very silly and cartoony deaths, usually followed by a pun about the death. Though thinking on it, the cartoony aspects might also help with making the plot halting while you figured out puzzles work so well.

[@cybercrasherstv]

@@BannerMirror501 bruh, they made Grim Fandango. Death existed

[@andret3739]

Because David Cage is a hack that takes himself way too seriously

[@mistertagomago7974]

Lucas Arts games were much more focused on exploration and puzzle solving. They allowed you to more so explore the story at your own pace. You still had to put in the effort to figure things out to beat the game. David Cage games feel more like making occasional decisions that have minimal effects on the story. More like a movie you slightly alter rather than an interactive adventure. Also Lucas Arts was smart enough to not put you in situations where not being able to die felt awkward.

[@j-skullz]

Imagine saying video games aren't mature in 2011 when Silent Hill 2 was right there and had already existed for a full 10 years. Team Silent didn't die for this

[@Revan058]

Team Silent didn't die for shit, they just got executed for literally no reason. Fuck Konami.

[@SusieBlup]

To be fair that's an exception, not the rule.

[@dark1810]

​ @Ubsty "mature" is just code for boring gritty "dark" trash that tv is full of fuck that shit i dont need a gritty reimagening of assassins creed 2 where etzios mum is raped by a roman pike man cause its sooooo mature followed by 30 hours of being lectured to or watching a bunch of actual idoits who act in no way like humans actually do try and out psychopath each other in a gritty "real" mature fashion

[@SusieBlup]

@@dark1810 Yeah, I guess it depends on how we see it. A story can be mature in terms of elements (like extreme violence) but still be shallow.

[@guardianhirro]

How "mature" a game is and how fun it is to actually play are inversely proportionate, that's why all the games that have deep well written stories and good gameplay are ignored by the ppl that call these shitty movie games evolutions of the medium

[@shr1mpsush1]

If it weren't for David Cage having a nude model of their character put in the game against their will, I like to think we'd be seeing some brilliant performances from Elliott Paige in games that make the most of their acting talent.

[@Deadsea_1993]

That is probably why there would not be a sequel. The ending implied there would be one and yet they can't go forward without the star of the game. David is a real piece of work to do that

[@songbird6414]

Like honestly why was it even necessary. It seems like more work for more controversy.

[@cartiarmpit7739]

the way that the bar scene was shot felt really uncomfortable. why were there so many unnecessary shots where jodie is bent over the pool table in front of the camera?

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

I’m sorry what? Could you say that again?

[@angelalin3489]

for a game about two souls, it sure is souless

[@KoylTrane]

Something something dark souls reference

[@reverbthevocal421]

@@a.r6466 Hashbrowns, hehe. That’s a new one for me.

[@mnoypoiuyt65r4w8]

lemme kiss u on the cheek

[@oofoofers]

That is beyond hilarious

[@solemnsoul]

What are you talking about? I feel the game's story really reached deep down inside my chest cavity.

[@spikehamer2]

Really gotta appreciate all the doodles and art you do throughout the whole thing

[@EndThusIAm]

After a friend and I played all of David Cage's games, with such regret, we've come to the conclusion that he has some rather creative concept ideas, but he really shouldn't be the one who writes it all out. Detroit was so close to being a fantastic game likely thanks to the other writers, but it still had idiotic moments in typical Cage fashion.

[@etrs]

Games nowadays that try to be 'mature' end up being remembered as immature jokes, while older games that tackle heavy subject matters whilst taking the time to make jokes and be deliberately campy, such as MGS2 and the first four Silent Hills, are remembered as classics. My point is that if you take yourself too seriously you'll inevitably look like a fool in the end.

[@helloenemy]

People like David seem to have this idea that Maturity = Melodrama. Scene after scene being noting but attempted heart string tugs or extremely exaggerated stereotypes.

[@MUSICLOVER23429]

Yeah I was going to say older games were actually more mature than modern games.

[@Rowenawhite]

Dont forget Majora's mask. It is Really mature with its themes.

[@etrs]

@@Rowenawhite Haven't really played that game. I only own the crappy 3DS remake.

[@etrs]

@Innocent Jogger *Kojima Productions

[@mattblaster2378]

Suffering can lead to character development but the suffering it’s self isn’t development.

[@captain_hat6247]

*YES* This deserves thousands of upvotes.

[@Hasbulla761]

Last of us 2

[@nanni0580]

SAY IT LOUDER TO THE PEOPLE AT THE BACK

[@theshiro1238]

YES, if you make a character suffer but this one still remains the same it's nothing more than some edgy bullshit ,the same kind of thing that shitty self-insert fanfiction writers do, Judy is nothing more than an angsty mary sue ,you don't feel attached to her and it's quite funny that Aiden ,the only character who's unable to talk or doesn't even has a body has more personality than ALL the characters together

[@jjj7790]

I think my favorite thing I remember from the game is when Jodie is hiding on the train. At one of the stops, the police board the train to search the train for Jodie, and while the police are searching, the train starts moving. With the cops inside. Still searching for the fugitive. Like, does David Cage think law enforcement just wouldn't communicate with the train line during their investigation? If the cops did catch Jodie would they have to buy train tickets to get back to their vehicles? LMAO This of course is just an excuse for Jodie to make an action-packed escape from the train, but there is no logical thinking behind the setup of these scenes.

[@Skullkidjynx]

You know those meetings that are like “this could have been an email”? This could have been a movie

[@PsychoticBeverage]

Your drawings of Jodie have more personality than every character in the game she's from combined.

[@XhyRobtic]

Honestly tho, his jodie drawings actually make her look adorable and appealing. In-game she just.. looks odd

[@-tera-3345]

I think Aiden is interesting on a conceptual level, working as an in-game representation of the effect the player is having on the world, so when you do things as Aiden it almost feels like the characters in the game are directly responding to you, the player. The problem is that Cage apparently didn't actually understand the concept, so its implementation is a complete failure.

[@sebastianbronowicki7073]

Now that you mention it, Beyond Two Souls would've actually been much better if the entire game was played through the point of view of Aiden, and your actions would be what causes characters to react accordingly, including actually affecting the plot and relationships between characters. For example causing Jody to either like or gate Aiden depending on how you treat her, or using powers to either help or hinder the various characters you meet according to what YOU think should be done

[@kendrickkomisarz9310]

The comedic timing for the punk version of the main character being cut off by an ad was hilarious I hope others experienced that.

[@QuikVidGuy]

"AH-"

[@Volthoom]

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is still one of the most mature videogames of all time and i will kill hundreds before i die on that hill.

[@tmta4089]

me two

[@emperorfaiz]

The whole Metal Gear series (except MG Survive) deserve such praise as well.

[@fridaynight9405]

Can't fret over every egg Jack

[@mateoreyes6921]

@@emperorfaiz Even Metal Gear Solid 5, and that game is incomplete(thanks to Konami)

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

@@fridaynight9405 the memes.

[@DyaMetR]

What I find interesting about David Cage giving lessons on how to evolve and mature the videogame industry is that he seems to attempt doing so with interactive movies, a way of making videogames that does not exploit the medium as much as it could.

[@EdmundKempersDartboard]

How has that "aggghhhh" not been memed all to hell? It's amazing.

[@orneb6483]

Where is Terry Hintz: The best best friend?

[@Sleepy_on_the_moon]

still waiting for the Terry vid 😔

[@vicentereyes8463]

I hope he mentions Joel from Lisa the pointless if he ever does this vid.

[@gonzofernandez]

I was actually thinking about that last night

[@newersoup5202]

i agree

[@soldatdaniels8738]

My last name is Hintzen so that alerted me,lol.

[@mrpay4444AYypIgEDLbwfZm4kjaQk]

People think mature means edgy.

[@some_guy117]

When the guy killed him self to be with his family, for some reason or another I got reminded of xavier renegade angel

[@skankyassmarty220]

What doth Life...life...life...life...

[@chuckin6823]

I will never forgive David Cage for killing the Best Friends

[@gamer62589]

David was responsible for that?

[@zigmus00A]

"Welcome in Omikron"

[@CCBrown92]

@@gamer62589 Omikron the Nomad Soul is a silent killer.

[@throbbingfellow1136]

Rightfully so, R.I.P.

[@murciadoxial8056]

The sadness took them.

[@stardust-reverie]

i have. weird feelings about this game i played it when i was really young, like, adolescent age, and i loved all the ideas present it felt like, huge. like a massive, epic story spanning such a long time with a million different twists and turns and things happening and a huge climactic ending like nothing i’d ever seen. i really wasn’t mature enough to see through the cracks, to all the flaws, and it’s honestly still kind of hard to see for myself. it was just, *so cool*. that “cool” factor is still kind of there, and i don’t think it’ll ever properly go away, which makes me really sad that they never did anything actually interesting or meaningful with jodie’s story. kinda makes me want to think about how i’d retell it, in a more impactful and meaningful way. it also double hurt because the drawing of jodie throughout the video was really cute and infinitely more endearing than anything she actually did in the game that i can think of

[@nutella7644]

exactly my thoughts!!! most of my love for this game is just nostalgia and at the time of release, i had never played such a large plot-driven game like this. the story is definitely not perfect or as "good" as i remembered, but the whole concept of aiden and the afterlife stuff is still so cool to me even after all these years :) i still have a soft spot for jodie, shes been through a lot lol

[@goosegas2087]

@@nutella7644 Honestly Aiden feels so wasted. You have this powerful orb that can kill people with ease but it can't really go anywhere or do anything without the girl actually going there. How does the orb feel about not having a body? How does it feel about never getting to do "normal" things? They could each feel like they're preventing the other from being normal, and maybe the orb's spectating can lead to it to be apathetic to people's suffering, because it never really experienced suffering. But no. It's just superpowers on orb form.

[@valhatan3907]

Same goes to me. This game has soft spot to me because it's part of my childhood. But, even then I still aware at how stupid Nathan's su*cide was 😂

[@Blas0330]

The main reason why i dislike David Cage's work is that its games looks too much like films. I dont have a problem with the cinema, but whith the fact that he considers that a way of raising the videogames as a medium is by making it be similar to another one, putting one below the other. In other words, to me it kinda resembles to someone who doesnt like games making games.

[@porassrivastava8242]

I bet there are at least a 100 people watching this video rn who love video games and will make better cinematic games than cage

[@emperorfaiz]

The interactive movie genre is the most pretentious video game genre ever. Because adding engaging gameplay is "immature" apparently. Are adults too inept to learn and adapt to the interactivity of a video game experience?

[@Ramsey276one]

It makes no sense Like a Chef that will only cook on FIREWOOD STOVES... I see the point.... But it's kinda pointless...

[@helloenemy]

@@emperorfaiz imagine having a “holier than thou” attitude like David Cage because you can take what would’ve been Subpar B list movies, animate them, and have the players choose between 2-4 buttons. Mature gaming at its finest, if you define maturity as being something grandma could figure out to play.

[@akaiyoru2681]

@@helloenemy Fossil gaming

[@noravanguard]

I'm getting heavy Empress Theresa vibes from her powers

[@melissalopez154]

Fuckin Hal

[@jeffreytraynhamii4460]

God-tier reference

[@CCBrown92]

You can never truly escape from Empress Theresa

[@heathea9678]

@@CCBrown92 I can if I use the power of coke bottles

[@Alice89chan]

His*

[@god47398]

reminder that david cage still has not released a game with a well-written, thought-out story and/or good controls and/or good gameplay, but all his games since heavy rain have had great graphics and thats all that matters

[@akira5trangelov387]

"Killing yourself means you revert back to sanity!" Frictional games : *Laughs in Soma*

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Also just… As someone who struggle with suicad*lity… Its insulting. And bad! Just ew.

[@thatoneguy4452]

Willem Dafoe should've sacrificed himself to stop the machine. His happy ending would've at least been earned then.

[@SgtZima]

To be fair to the game, when Jodie & Ryan are being tortured in the underwater base, it’s shown that Aiden can’t pass through the energy field created by the condenser. He’s not in the room with them, so he can’t help.

[@jean-charleschabrol390]

Honestly It feels like Cage tries to dramatise everything, but it makes the characters feel like empty shells. Like the "tEnagEr Ar EviLLL!!" Trope. And yeah the illusion of choice.

[@williamhanekom9882]

I absolutely hated that part of the game for that specific reason. Yes some teenagers can be evil little shits, but it just feels silly that we didn't have more ending scenarios where you could befriend them better and nothing bad happened, or if you helped with a conflict each of the characters were having. Or hell what if you could show them how awesome your powers were and they later joined you as a friend or companion in the other story segments. It's just insulting they were written so flat, especially considering that some teenage outsiders would very much relate to jodie and her situation.

[@miguelangelucsanchez183]

Oh boy good ol' David "made an anatomically correct model of a person without their consent" Cage video this is gonna interesting. Also welcome to the SADNESS franchise where David tries to be a movie director really hard Edit: This game should have been about fighting other stand user like jodie.

[@religiousotaku9926]

Wait what?

[@miguelangelucsanchez183]

@@religiousotaku9926 he made an anatomically correct model of Elliot Page without any consent when he directed Beyond Two soul and page sue his ass and after that Cage had the Balls to brag about how he has worked with an LGTB+ actor even tho page sued him for the model.

[@religiousotaku9926]

@@miguelangelucsanchez183 oh shit

[@miguelangelucsanchez183]

@@religiousotaku9926 Cage is legit the worst, he doesn't have any self-awareness.

[@Link-pe3tt]

@@miguelangelucsanchez183 he almost sued Cage, but everything else is right.

[@LordThulhu]

That's the thing, the fact that the creator used "maturity" in the first place. It's exactly the same when an author uses "deep and complex" when describing their story/characters. The moment you see someone use these words, you instantly know that you're in for something that takes "style" over "substance" because that's exactly what "Mature, deep and complex" are, words that say nothing and are constantly misused. Mature = Sexual content, extreme violence and swear words... Because apparently that's mature and just something most of us thought was mature when we were teenagers until we realized that being mature is literally the opposite of all that and get depressed by the amount of responsibility and burden we have to carry because if not, we gonna have a bad time. Deep = Some philosophical BS thrown into for no reason and says nothing at all... But they sure make it sound smarter and deeper than it actually is. Complex = It's confusing, nothing is explained and you leave the experience with more questions than answers but it sure tries to make it look like you just didn't understand it and not just the authors lack of direction and plan. I'm so tired of this and how they constantly get away with it by making it look very pretty. Pretty much distracting you from looking too deeply into it by dangling some keys in front of you and tell you how "mature, deep and complex" their story/characters are. And if that doesn't work you get the "If you don't like it, then don't watch/read/play it!", or some really manipulative answer that sounds nice but is pretty much just dismissing you anyway after having made you go into details with your criticism. At that point I just wish for them to tell me to "fuck off" instead of this lame attempt to not lose face in front of their fans with this backhanded way that pretty much just tell you "fuck off" but in a nicer sounding way. Sorry for the rant but god... Stories/characters like that really get on my nerves, especially when they get away with it as well. It always make me wonder why we even bother trying to understand the craft if you don't even have to give a shit in the first place. Just throw some random shit on the screen, sprinkle some glitter on it, say it's more than it is and people won't even question it.

[@zodaloo9303]

From the Zaibatsu boys to Urick, I can never escape this game. But I'll always love seeing people tearing it down.

[@TheHoodedHunter]

F for the Zaibatsu.

[@mikekazz5353]

As they should.

[@PaladinGear15]

you watch her grow up they say, well she becomes a teen and never really ever stops being a mopey sad teen, even when she's meant to be a super badass hardened army woman. I'd love for the game to have a flash forward "60 years later" and she still looks like an angsty 15 year old, just wearing grandma clothes now, with grandchildren who look older than her XD

[@ryanm.8720]

"Character development is something every writer should learn... to fake!" - J.P. Beaubien, Terrible Writing Advice

[@VampyBlood17]

The weird thing about not going about chronological order is that none of the scenes are even remotely related to each other so it’s super frustrating for them to not be in order

[@someguywithahat5690]

“David Cage you’ve done it again”-rt games

[@bioforest6602]

I think it's false to think games haven't matured yet. Games were mature in the 90s to 2000s. Games like Thief 1 and 2, and Silent Hill 2. The problem with "maturity" is that people don't want to deal with actual game design. Most "mature" games today have to take control away from the player just to try to make a game look mature. And it feels like the developers have no trust in the player to play the game the way they should to get the feelings they want from them. Like The Last of Us and obviously David Cage's games.

[@Aenglaan]

To add to your point about taking away player control, I think the issue is how the games take away control. Cinematic games just become interactive films while "walking simulators" are basic to the point of lacking game mechanics in the vain of "game-y" games.

[@viktorthevictor6240]

I reject the question itself of whether or not the industry is mature. How can an industry be mature? It's like asking if humans are good, it's too broad a question. Is the film industry mature? The music industry? Because in many cases they aren't, even today.

[@BrentosTheFreshmaker]

Wow. I have to say, this has to be the most well-produced video essay on a video game I've ever watched. There was no cringe or edgy humour, there were hundreds of original animations. I felt like I was watching a genuine thesis on why this game was bad. Bravo Urick, you've definitely earned a subscription from me.

[@user-zb9jn8fl7v]

I heavily disagree with David Cage. It's not about how emotional the story is, it's about how well we use the medium of video games to tell our stories. the industry evolves and matures as it finds interesting and creative ways to weave narrative with gameplay. look at Hades and how the developers managed to use the roguelike genre and incorporate its mechanics with a fantastic story.

[@aaaaaahhh9537]

Exactly, interactive mediums can do so much more than "choose your own adventure"

[@anna-flora999]

And on the other hand, you have stuff like dark souls. Now, I definitely don't want to praise it as the best game ever or do a "git gud" stick, and I definitely admit that it's a niche game that's not for everyone. But the world is just awesome imo. It doesn't really tell a big story of its own, but it's full of lore that you can piece together with enough care. Game mechanics are used for storytelling (the cycle of death and returning as a metaphor for the age of fire fading and being rekindled for example). And the World as such just has such an immersive feel to me. Some sort of serenity and piece despite the fact that everything is pretty much fucked. The sound design is awesome as well. You need to be in a state of constant awareness and focus, yet can get used to that and still explore the world relatively safely after a while, and yet still if you get too confident, it reminds you to be cautious still. It just quickly became one of my favorite games

[@crim1188]

@@anna-flora999 Miyazaki always said the point of relatively high difficulty was story and how he wanted to present it, not just challenge for the sake of challenge (which is something DS2 missed hurr durr obligatory DS2 bashing) Soulsborne method of story telling is excellent for videogames because it's both disconnected and connected with the game. Now let me explain: Both Dark Souls and Bloodborne have main story objectives, being "Rekindle the First Flame" and "Seek Paleblood and end the Hunt" with vague guidance for each. Now technically, this is our "plot" but what does it mean? What does it say? Big fat nothing. You see only the very surface of what happens, without inquiring any further. The Chosen Undead or The Hunter got their objectives and can't be fucked to seek context behind any of their actions, the people and monsters they meet or the ancient kingdoms and nightmares they travel through. That is, if the PLAYER plays like this. The plot itself is so bare-bones that alone, it only exists as a pretext to fight monsters and explore different areas. However, should the player seek answers, they'll find themselves neck deep buried in mysteries, themes and incredible environmental story telling. In other words, the more you're invested in the game, the more you'll see. This might be a Captain Obvious statement, but it's even more true for Soulsborne games than any other videogame I've seen, barring maybe Legacy of Kain. How much you'll get out of the story is intrinsically tied to the level of engagement the player possesses. Needless to say why this is perfect for videogames. This is also why I despise the idea of separating "the lore" and "the story" in those games. You just can't. They're inseparable, that is if you want to actually examine what the story has to offer and how it ties to the gameplay. The way I see it, Soulsborne game are like a buried iceberg. If you're there only to bonk monsters and have fun with great enemy and boss design, you'll get to play around only with the very tip. Which isn't wrong in any way mind you, like you said, those games are niche and even among more hardcore players the level of engagement the full narrative calls for, is quite large. All of this is so hilariously above David Cage it's downright embarrassing. The man does not understand videogames as a medium AT ALL, and to add insult to the injury, he's a terrible fucking writer. Every time he tries to go for anything it's shit. Heavy Rain was awful, filled with conflicting elements and his obvious erection whenever the female character was involved. Beyond is so dull you can't even properly laugh at it, and the video covers it anyway. Detroit is the closest he got to not sucking, but it still missed the mark by such a wide margin, a blind man with no arms would have an easier time hitting someone with a rock from 10km away.

[@asisin2]

Funny you guys bring out the souls series cause i was thinking how fairly well Demons tells its story through gameplay and the fact that the main mechanic of soul upgrading is part of the storytelling, and that game is from 2009. David cage is a dull tard writing teenage melodrama he doesn’t have anything interesting to say about gaming.

[@alexworman]

Your insight on these games is interesting but I gotta admit, the thing I like the most about these videos is the characters you draw. Their designs are so appealing

[@shards-of-glass-man]

I've caught myself feeling sympathy for the Chibi!Cage despite hating David Cage. Now that's design.

[@voidfly]

the funny thing is that Vanya from Umbrella Academy, while also played by Elliot is the same character basically but better

[@JudgementNutter]

At least it gave us the best prompt ever in one of these games; "REVENGE!!!"

[@Tashwampa]

The section about its cinematics reminds me of Woolie in the SBF let's play when Pat was trying to advance the story and woolie said "Put that controller down, you think that's game you're playing?" Like it's fine to have cinematic scenes in a story driven game, in fact it's cool to convey emotions this way. But as a video game with a story the player should feel like THEY are driving the story, rather than the story happening no matter what you do. Basically it shouldn't be happening around you

[@shorewall]

Holy shit, that made me laugh. :D

[@coyraig8332]

When you showed us the bad guy's "happy ending" I instinctively said, louder than I thought I did, "are you kidding me?!" I also had hope for that part of the story because character arc

[@hexxerman7656]

Don't forget Omikron. Cage also made that. Probably the most mature game he ever made ever because it was so cool and deep and had game mechanics that worked all the time 100% and deffinitly was not a shit show at all.

[@benzlover55]

I've never even heard of Omikron...

[@hexxerman7656]

@@benzlover55 That's because David Bowie didn't want anyone to remember.

[@zodaloo9303]

It was so mature that it was able to kill a channel made by best friends

[@hexxerman7656]

@@zodaloo9303 Damn.

[@End3rDJgaming]

I heard about that one! Jessie Cox said it was great!