Vault Hunters HermitCraft: IS RANDOM BAD? - Behind the scenes

Behind the scenes from the HermitCraft vault hunter series between episode 18 and 19 - iskall talks about Random and RNG in games, and Etho joins in!
NOTE, this video is NOT edited!
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[@TheBreadBasketOfficialOfficial]

Gotta keep getting all my etho content from Iskall

[@levi8971]

Amen

[@davidhenry31]

I want etho to do a vault hunter series like he did with project ozone so badly. I would watch that over and over

[@iossaiken]

Etho's next vid will have him at Lv100...

[@txseric6294]

@@davidhenry31 I'm really hoping Etho and Iskall do a skyvault playthrough together.

[@MrEightygrit]

No offense to Iskall. But I agree! Gotta get some Etho!

[@eliassaratsis]

Iskall: "I am going on real holidays so I won't play" Also iskall: " Sooo... let's play some vault hunters"

[@justaregularrhino6529]

i think this is all 1 or 2 sessions lol

[@batt3ryac1d]

He's definitely a fiend for it 😅

[@Eis_]

*Best friend asks to sleep over and play games* Also Iskall: "Gotta Vault"

[@rasmusdampedersen6822]

"uploads pretty much everyday" :D

[@zacaryhellings9507]

​@justaregularrhino6529 so far it's his 2nd session this behind the scenes

[@varvaris]

Iskall was standing right next to the new vault portal in his office and still flew down to the beach to use the old one.. I feel personally attacked.

[@bryanperez8636]

Hearing etho and Iskall talk dev stuff is the best part of etho finally playing vault hunters like every single time they play together I can’t help but stop what I’m doing and listen to the conversation

[@Game_Blox9999]

I don't mean to be the grammar police, but you used "there" as in "over there" instead of "they're" as in "they are."

[@Icerz.]

@@Game_Blox9999 🤓

[@aelin88]

@@Game_Blox9999 and it actually should be their, grammar police

[@Ms.L.]

They are so interesting

[@Game_Blox9999]

@@aelin88 Yeah, I guess I deserved that. You know what they say, you reap what you sow.

[@justasimpleweeb4156]

A solution to the treasure key door is to have the gem shape on the door for those who can't see the different greens and those who are colorblind . Or when you hold the key and the door is in your line of sight it gets hilighted.

[@Lu-yx2vj]

That's a great idea

[@seerm1744]

you can also change the shape of the keys, make sure the same color keys are very differently shaped, would do this between colors too for accessibility, but def make sure those of similar color are very diff shapes to each other. Would add on that the doors should feature same the shape as the keys or some way to match the keys besides color.

[@KalThass]

As someone with red-green colour blindness I love this idea.

[@justcallmeness]

Yes! Shapes are good!

[@Tetrini]

@@seerm1744 or an option for like, a texture that has the gem with a smaller key icon on the corner or vice verse

[@GuyKadim]

Idk if your going to read this Iskall or if it is even possible but I have an idea about the treasure treasure doors: you can make the keys start to glow or change appearance when near the corresponding door, I believe that it could resolve the problem of the color of the doors

[@eykan_ow]

I really like this idea!

[@Entarra]

And/or give the keys a unique shape for each gem, since the doors already kind of have their own look for each one. Would help with accessibility too, for the colorblind players

[@GuyKadim]

@@Entarra yes that would be a great idea

[@hunterbshindi2310]

But that requires you to sacrifice one hotbar slot and there are only so many items one can fit into these 9 slots

[@jeffreycate3967]

​@hunterbshindi2310 That's very true, but this is largely a problem when you have only one key. If you open your inventory or a chest, you could also see the glow. But yeah, it would be a significant problem.

[@mcnugget7388]

I like the rng idea and I like how it's implemented in vh but its always nice to be able to just choose to work harder for the item, like spending 50 gold instead of gambling 5 with a small chance

[@astrogamer158]

For the doors, one solution could be to put an outline of the gem on the door(and key, so people can reference). That way theres a non-color way to differentiate them.

[@vodskall85]

This is a very good idea

[@brandonspurlock8059]

​@vodskall85 a way to figure out the color without looking at the color is great for colorblind people too

[@alannadena]

The handle of the keys could literally be the shape of the unique gem it was crafted with, and the doors could have a decoration on the corners of the door that would match the key handle.

[@drowsy2k-139]

Hey, Iskall since majority of the hermits had played through The vaults u should do a vault with every hermit and ask them how they fell about the game what they don’t like, what they do like and etc to see what you can improve or take out from the game

[@laartje24]

That would make very interesting vodskall content. Would love to watch their perspectives.

[@vogelvrouw]

It so much fun seeing Etho enjoy the modpack, you must be having the best time playing with him seeing him love it so much

[@Rhxyy]

For fixing the treasure room doors, I see two solutions. 1. The doors could be made visually distinct in ways that are not color coordinated. Playing around with different patterns on the texture of the different doors would be a massive step in the right direction. I could also see a world where the doors are a 3x3 with a picture of the vault ore in the center. There are gems on the doors already, but its not enough to be able to distinguish it at a glance. 2. Add some sort of color blindness feature to the settings of the game, or even create a browser based resource pack customizer (similar to Xisumas vanilla tweaks) that lets you change the color of different assets.

[@Arcella1981]

OH! i really like your idea of 3x3 treasure door with like picture of the vault ore in the center, I also really badly want gem blocks, so for example would be super awesome to be able to make a block of sparkletin or iskallium

[@xWinterMoon]

I'd love the treasure keys to sparkle if it's in the vicinity of a treasure door. And it could have varying levels of sparkliness depending in if you're close.

[@icetothemac]

The colorblind thing is big big big, I really need it xD

[@fulafisken]

It is such a joy watching iskall and etho hanging out :)

[@kestrelgaming554]

These two bounce off each other so well. Really gives you a peek behind the curtain of Vh. I've really enjoyed watching. Iskallman to the rescue once a again 😂 (no shame in that at all 😂)

[@JaegerDreadful]

Iskall idk if you will read this or not but quick question: Are there any plans of getting a "Audio team" part of the VH dev team, or do you at least like the idea of it? Having music and custom sounds would make VH so much better and it's something I really miss right now.

[@Werewolf914]

I'd love that

[@vogelvrouw]

Ohhh yes! But theyd have to fit in with the vanilla mc soundtrack, its just too good and iconic

[@rocknrage8663]

Iskall / Etho runs have become my favorite VH content!

[@danielerdozain]

just a thought for another use of chest scrolls: similar to dummies, where you can test your attack damage and speed, there can be “dummy _____ chest” in which you can see how fast a chest can break. they’d break entirely but respawn after a few seconds. this can be a good way to test your tools in the overworld.

[@hansolconaway9113]

(written at about 8 minutes into the video) I love the rng in vault hunters, but balancing can be tricky. The tool crafting system is great, and like you said, the gear crafting system could learn a lot from that. I did the math of gear crafting recently. because you only get .1 or .2% towards mastery, that means it takes anywhere from 500 to 1000 crafted pieces to gain mastery in just one type of gear. I think even just adding the potential to get .3% while gear crafting would make it more worth it. maybe make an expertise that can raise the number to .4 or .5. that makes the math go to between 1000 and 334 for normal, and from 1000 to (potentially) 200 to finish a mastery. prices for crafting could also be adjusted. Another possibility is to incorperate faceted foci into gear crafting. crafting gear causes you to lose the potential for legendary modifiers. what if crafted gear, when crafted with a faceted focus, could have that focus permanently seared into the gear. whatever it rolls is what you get, so it still has an rng element. it couldnt be chaos focused into being better (or worse). so as an example, you craft a chest plate and use a health faceted focus. you roll it into a rare, and the health rolls a 4 (out of a possible 9). that prefix cannot be changed no matter what, but you can still rng the rest of the weapon as normal. (written at about 32 minutes into the video) Maybe a way to fix axes is by making them both better and worse at the same time. a sword is naturally and stereotypically a nice, fast, one handed weapon. Axes can be more powerful sure, but they are normally wielded with two hands. What if vault axes were like that too? start them at between 10-12 damage at level 0, let them have a much stronger base damage than swords, with the drawback being that you cant use an offhand. with less access to ability power and block chance/thorns damage, you have the potencial to build a set up that's way more focused on how hard you hit. Give axes a chance to have a small percentage of lucky hit added as an implicit. This gives players the change to make builds that don't focus on mana or ability power as much, letting them focus more on movement and shielding. I love axes, I want to use axes, and I feel like this could be the thing that pushes them into being a viable weapon. I feel like part of the problem is that their being treated as sword 2.0 when they need to be treated as their own weapon. giving them a much harder hit at the cost of being slower AND having no offhand can defiantly do that. This could even be supported by adding either new skills or new specializations into skills we already have that work based on your damage rather than your ability power. example, a subset of fireball called firefist that does a percentage of your damage on your next hit. mana shield could have a subset called mana thorns where your mana drains while its up, but when a mob hits you it takes a % of your strength as thorns damage. (written about 48 minutes into the video) the door color thing isn't just a skill issue, its an issue of accessibility. I imagine the colors being so close really can be upsetting for those players that are colorblind and literally cant tell the difference between the doors. Another way to fix it without changing it all together is to add an accent color that is colorblind friendly. (i know you said it should be fixed potentially but still wanted to add to the discussion)

[@spidermandy310]

I love that you're willing to discuss RNG! Of course, your Pyder loves VH. I'm OK with RNG up to a point. I prefer having input into my destiny (i.e. gear building), but would love to have more choice and customization. If I can gather lots of materials to be able to build or craft an omega item, it's far more satisfying than randomly rolling for weeks until I get it.

[@onewaymirror8060]

I like RNG for the same reasons you mentioned! Namely the replayability and not knowing what you're gonna get. It's exciting!

[@astrogamer158]

RNG is a fun mechanic but should always have a workaround Like you should be able to decide you're too unlucky and get what you want another way. Give either a workaround or a guarantee. Everything should be obtainable from more than rng, always give options. Thats my opinion tho.

[@gykx92]

My take on RNG in games like diablo and vault hunters, is when you have to grind grind and grind more to make meaningful growth. It becomes more tedious than fun. Especially in a game where the durability eventually means you'll lose the gear you've meticulously crafted, and now need to rebuild all over again. Its really two balancing points to find: 1st The point where the lowest new gear you get naturally, is nearly equal to the old gear you've maxed, so even if you need to start over, you're not suffering to do so. 2nd: The point where the amount of effort it takes to max out your gear, is still a better/smarter use of time and resources than only going for higher level gear. If your game has these two points well balanced, rng feels rewarding. If it doesn't, rng feels punishing

[@OsuFan418]

Maybe Iskall needs to look into how PSO2 dealt with gear. You could merge together gear with a high amount of randomness that you could minimize with a large amount of resource use. This way you could get what you wanted without hitting a 1 in a million drop chance.

[@Lakosius]

No it didnt , Dudu and Monika can burn in heck

[@Arcella1981]

I think ONE thing that would make it WAY better is just have a void orb that you can combine with a faceted focus and then you could use that void orb that has been turned into a "Void Orb ( healing efficiency) " then when you use it on a gear peice then it would ONLY remove that healing efficiency and not take something else that you wanted to keep

[@OsuFan418]

@@Lakosius Dudu did nothing wrong. Come back when you get doom break 3 on an 8 affix weapon.

[@Apol-Lyon]

Hey Iskall! Love all the behind the scenes videos. About your rng question; I think there’s definitely a place for it in Vault Hunters, your main point about how it provides variety and replay value make a lot of sense from a game design perspective. And I think rng can let you have a lot of fun with the gambling side, rolling that perfect modifier on a piece of gear is a pretty good feeling. Of course the opposite is also true, when you have to grind forever rerolling something just for that one stat you need, it can get exhausting. That’s where the Minecraft perspective comes in, I’m not sure how much rng is necessarily welcome by people more use to playing standard Minecraft. I know for me personally, I generally try to eliminate as much rng from my game as possible, be it using librarian villagers instead of enchanting, using lighting to stop random mob spawns, or even building nether hubs so I don’t have to deal with the chaos of random ghasts. But that’s because in regular Minecraft I’m more interested in the building side than the grindy one and want to make that side as convenient as possible so I can spend more time building. Which doesn’t necessarily apply to VH, it just seems like generally rng and convenience are at odds with each other. And most players seem to prefer a more convenient experience, like you were saying to Etho in the last bts about game difficulty, how a lot of people want the game to be on the easier side. It’s definitely a tough line to walk and I can sympathize with you and your team. Maybe if there’s rng, there can also be a more expensive but less grindy option? The reworked enchanter you guys made comes to mind, instead of rolling and hoping for the right enchants, you can just pay your emeralds and xp for the exact enchants you want, trading currency for expedience. Obviously for vault gear and everything you’d want the cost to be pretty high (vault gold, gems, etc) but it could be a good balance for the different types of players. Sorry for the long reply, it’s just my two cents lol. You’re doing great and I can’t wait for next year and all the vaulting to come. PS- and the Etho carrying lol

[@Arcella1981]

I think ONE thing that would make it WAY better is just have a void orb that you can combine with a faceted focus and then you could use that void orb that has been turned into a "Void Orb ( healing efficiency) " then when you use it on a gear piece then it would ONLY remove that healing efficiency and not take something else that you wanted to keep

[@vodskall85]

Thank you! Good comment! I think RNG is necessary in a game like this, and I dont think its in a bad place at the moment, but it can definately use some love here and there

[@TheWalior]

I think they key is giving people a way to bypass the RNG at a price, like how in POE you can use bench to 6l an item while paying a bit more. @@vodskall85

[@Apol-Lyon]

@@vodskall85 Yeah I agree, even with some of the grindier parts I’ve never found myself wishing it was removed from the game or anything. And that feeling when everything rolls just how you want it to is pretty hard to beat. I do think there’s some merit to a less grindy but more costly rng alternative for more casual players. I wouldn’t say it’s something that would necessarily be a straight improvement, just a different approach. Even if nothing changes your rng systems are still far more fun than rolling villager trades lol.

[@elijahthegentle4395]

Prob one of my fav episodes from you ever. I’m not kidding at all! I so enjoyed every aspect of this video. Conversation, topic, and of course the vault. You’re doing a good job. ❤

[@corbinmulholland9244]

I love the way that VH has its gear crafting and rolling. I, myself, am not a huge gambler when it comes to rolling equipment but it is always exciting to get that next upgrade or make the build you are aiming for. When it comes to the RNG of the game, I do have a few ideas for you to think about to potentially do more / make the system feel nicer 1) double down on the faceted foci: By combining multiple (say 4) of the same kind of focus + other crafting materials, it creates a supreme faceted focus of the same type. The supreme focus, when applied to a gear piece, will always have the max rolled stat (plus maybe a small chance at a legendary roll?). This will take the luck aspect out of rolling a gear piece in exchange for a noticeable cost. 2) Gear luck research: add a research option to create a table where the player can either choose a number of prefix + suffix modifiers to either remove or make rare for vault gear. For example, if the player doesn't want shocking hit chance on their sword, they can lessen the chance of it rolling by using the table. Obviously, the table would need research + be very expensive for this power but it would help better tune your gear rolls + remove the feel bad of getting a roll you don't want on late game equipment.

[@Anna-ip8ub]

It feels like etho is someone who gets Iskall and I’m glad he has that for a sanity check and just to bouncy things off of

[@daegral363]

I personally am always interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the game, and for you to give those thoughts in a laid back, zen way.

[@randydavis5014]

And I love the videos…you and Etho playing are so good to watch

[@Arcella1981]

What would be cool for hunter, would be to have it so that if when you go into a vault you have the respec of it connected to a "challenge" so for example when you go into a vault and you have it spec'd to gilded but you wanted it for living ( because you forgot to unspec before entering ) make it so that for example every 200 mobs you kill you COULD respec it into something else or every 80 ornate or gilded or living then it would allow you to respec it, and also when you exit a vault make it auto unspec

[@moriahberry]

Personally I love the rng experience for the gear I really like the way it’s done. The gear system is a fun challenge when I redo my gear

[@SenseiJae]

The secret with rng is that you need to supply methods to mitigate bad luck. For example, a scav vault that rolls a set of items that physically don’t generate is not fun because it is unwinable. But if you are guaranteed those items are in the vault and obtainable within the 25 minute time limit, that is mitigatable rng. I think my biggest frustration with vault hunters right now is that I’m trapped on level 28 without access to gear that can help me survive a vault and not enough vault resources to get more gear. I feel trapped because I enter a vault to get the resources, get pinned by a giant mob of enemies and killed, and I am at the point where I cannot afford my revive any more. (I am playing on a solo world as I don’t know anyone else who plays).

[@ericobert7101]

Im a big fan of the concept of building your own gear like the tools. I like to control my focus and it can be very frustrating rolling gear until you get what you want.

[@nineironspitfire]

I'm not exceptionally into the ARPG genre but I am big on roguelike games so I love the rng, so long as there is some form of mitigation for bad luck. From my single player experience of vault hunters I find it to be close to the perfect balance of RNG and non-RNG. I appreciate the videos over your holiday break! Hope your holidays have been enjoyable

[@Yorick257]

Door color: is it possible to do something with the texture? (like the ores in vanilla) That would be the ideal solution when it comes to accessibility. From what I remember, if you want something to be clearly distinct, it's better to design it in black & white, and then apply the color for an even better distinction.

[@brugbo613]

Makes sense to me. Also, I turn on Jade, so it's not a concern personally 🤷

[@6ProUp4]

As someone who in the last eight years haven't played anything other than minecraft, a Love vault hunters and the progressive feel of it!

[@themudja2614]

Rng is simple the best as long as it scales with your progression. Nowadays, people absolutely love having everything to beat the game as soon as possible, in my opinion, that's simply bad because it takes the skill very much so out of play and everything basically relies on gear. So, long story short, I don't think rng is so bad :)

[@KylertheHunter]

I agree, as long as its scaling then RNG is fine. It actually adds to the challenge. I think that more options to modify, like being able to choose which specific prefix or suffix would be nice, rather than leaving it completely up to chance (although this may already be a thing and I've just not unlocked it).

[@Danymaddox]

"Oh, Etho joined" i laught so hard that is almost ALMOST stupid love you iskall and love the RNG that you guys have in VH, its random, but you can have a lot of controll over it. Yeah, maybe sometimes is super sad, but most of the time its super exciting getting that thing you have work for.

[@lunarmoon06]

One of my favourite sayings "RNGesus take the wheel!" Most of the time he turns and drives off a bridge

[@TNTspaz]

Etho being part of the community has actively made it and the game better. Love to see it

[@Craeonkie]

Luck based games are so fun, if it's always the same thing it eventually gets boring BUT, some things shouldn't need rng, like for example, the clouds and stuff, which they don't, which is good. I feel like aside from the need to have a great computer to play and needing a lot of vault coins and mayyybe not enough vanilla in crafting recipes, vault hunters is more or less perfect

[@jimg6391]

one way to address the RNG aspect - particularly if the goal is to address the needs of more casual gamers - is to limit a non-RNG option to the easier game modes. So - if you play on easy or normal, you've got a way to craft the characteristics you want but your replayability is limited. But, if you want to maximize your replayability and you choose a harder setting, the ability to craft modifiers onto gear is removed.

[@devonmansfield8487]

Need more developers like you 😢😊

[@keldevaney]

Absolutly love these unedited BTS vods

[@Willd_Hunt3r]

One way to fix the treasure door problem would be adding the corresponding ore on the door, like how mob doors have the mob icon on them.

[@philipstiller6386]

I love the RNG in vh. I wish there was more! (VH2 cake vaults were always my favorite)

[@moriquendi4975]

Iskall Vault Hunters is everything I wish Minecraft could be. I love how you’ve kept the Vanilla aspect of Minecraft while adding the whole adventure/dungeon element. The possibilities this adds to the base Minecraft game are limitless. Basically, I love your vision. I am glad i first discovered you on Hermitcraft and found you again on Vodskall. I hope one day Hermitcraft/Vaulthunters will be a season. Love you all and all my best wishes for the lot of you in 2024. Thank you Iskall, Hermitcraft peeps, and all the Vault Hunters team.

[@cgri3673]

Mantis shrimp irl can move their claw so fast that it literally lights the water on fire via cavitation.

[@im_river_9657]

I just want to say I love Iskall's thumbnails, both for episodes and his in between episodes. Whoever does them (might be Iskall or an editor) is awesome!

[@xUndeadcookiex]

I can listen to Iskall and Etho talk game mechanics for HOURS!❤ So glad Etho has joined this little SMP and shares his honest feedback to this mod. And suggesting new ideas! Love the content❤🎉

[@miraclemax6241]

Rng is very fun, but it becomes frustrating when if feels like you put a lot of time in and, because you rolled badly, you made no progress. That's why, imo, incremental systems where you can see slow, steady progress towards what you want are a great complement to RNG-based gear systems. That's why I like the VH gear crafting system- you can put resources in and see yourself getting more proficient and working towards that piece you really want.

[@jeffreycate3967]

I love his 189 levels after sealing the crystal

[@LaylaSheep]

I recently watched and noted down "the two types of randomness" from game makers tool kit, its a really impressive video that I, as a games artist have noted down and learnt about. It is a great watch for creating games like vault hunters, especially since it tackles problems around those games.

[@Mr_Pengin]

I have an idea for vault hunters in general. Correct me if this breaks some consistency part of the game, but I think it would be great if the general durability stats of armor and tools were buffed. This would make it less so you don’t have to create a whole new set of tools and armor every couple of levels because they are running out of durability, and more that the vaults are getting harder and it would be easier if you level up your gear. Or maybe there is more durability for lower level stuff, and that extra durability gradually fades the higher level you go, making the endgame more about repairing and crafting new sets of tools and armor, and keeping the early game leveling up if gear more vault difficulty focused.

[@TheWeezyOfOz]

I really enjoy these videos, thanks for making them! I hope you had a good time over the holidays and the draw to Vault Hunters was for the fun, not for an obligation.

[@pendelluft]

The day after Iskall discusses the biggest controversy yet - the 3 green ores/treasure rooms being indistinguishable from each other - xB posts a video in which he and Hypno go vaulting and open up both a Tubium AND Petezanite Treasure room right after the other in the same vault. Luckily for them, they had both keys xD

[@jyanak5926]

I have a suggestion for vault gear! - I want to start off by saying that Vault Hunters is my favorite modpack ever! I think the normal difficulty and ability to adjust it up or down depending on your skill level is perfect. I started a multiplayer server with friends and they agree it's incredible but they get irritated at things you and I enjoy. They are the kind of player that wants to invest time and energy into the creative aspects of building and gaining more power than a vanilla experience provides. Specifically they hate scavenger vaults because they rely heavily on RNG. We'll always get 90% there and have to escape because we're missing one thing. I think that the time investment aspect is extremely relevant too. Running 5 vaults to every 1 my friends do gives me a completely different experience from them. It's nice to have people to respond to your questions in videos but to better help your team prioritize changes and improvements, it would be nice to offer surveys to get more data from your player base if possible. Regarding vault gear improvements though, I think it would be amazing to (expensively) enchant books with the modifier of choice from a piece of vault gear. You can add RNG if desired but I think destroying the original piece of gear it was on would be perfect. Make it cost a large amount of crafting potential too, It'll incentivize people to do less rolling and more gathering of materials. I think this would provide a clear path for hardcore and casuals alike to optimize vault gear intentionally instead of relying strictly on RNG. Absolutely love the series, content, and you being good to yourself by taking a break. (even if we still get to see what you're up too through vods) 😁👍

[@Lozi_Taylor]

I like the RNG, it makes the game more exciting to randomly get gear etc. Yes, it can be frustrating at times to not get what you want. However, it makes it even better when you get what you want. Sometimes I do like a bit of a grind in a game, prolongs gameplay and in Vault Hunters enables resource gathering. Thank you for VH Iskall and team

[@DealersChoice04]

Developing is always a tough gig and with creating anything from games to music to films or just anything at all one problem thats always faced is that you cant please everyone. Me personally i love the RNG of vault hunters, even any games alike i just love the tough situations that you can get into if things go south, I love when you hit the jackpot and i also love the "Puzzling your character". When i played Diablo 4 i remembered i always changed my build whenever i got new gear and or higher levels to suit the new enemies to make great builds. I always thought that a way vault hunters could give players more control is something similar to classes or a vault god skill to focus on when the player hits the level of god alters kinda like a secondary skill tree system depending on what god builds they wanna make, giving the players points every few levels or something or just every level from then, where it would be like a tug'a'war system between the gods where putting points into a web think, +1 points into Idona gives the player a good perk like when being hit by a mob has a chance to send of an explosion doing x % damage and knocking mobs back but it takes away a perk from Velara which could of been when being hit by a mob you have a chance to get regen 1 for 3 seconds and giving you 5% damage reduction. Or a point into Tenos giving a perk of completing bounties in a vault will boost the xp gain by x % but it takes away a perk from Wendarr where completing bounties in a vault will give 120 extra seconds to the vault. Basically just like picking one perk to sacrifice another perk from another god.

[@turtle-bot3049]

When it comes to rng, its a few things, but to me, the 2 main things that make it frustrating are: - When there's multiple layers stacked together to get something that is required for a build. - When there's a high chance to completely brick a piece of gear that you've been working on and put a lot of resources into. You've mostly solved the first by having crafter gear being a thing and the specific focus that guarantee a specific modifier, but cradting in general needs a bit of a buff, especially if you are going to introduce unique gear via looting. As for the second point, the idea to be able to lock modifiers sounds really good, but it shouldn't be super rng to get those. Having materials required as a focus would be good, but having an expertise option for it would help too. Something like "Blacksmithing" expertise, with say 4-5 levels, that does a few things, but only unlocks after level 50 or 75. 1. It allows you to lock additional modifiers on a piece of gear above the base 1 modifier (+1 per level into the expertise) 2. It gives you a small chance to roll a legendary modifier when you craft a piece of gear above a certain quality (e.g. crafting gear at smith level or higher grants +1 percent chance to roll a legendary modifier when you identify the crafted gear per level of expertise skill unlocked. Since you're introducing unique gear, this would be a good balance between crafted and looted gear, similar to how path of exile does it, where crafting has the chance to get top tier modifiers, but the unique gear is only really obtained via looting. This way you can craft generically strong gear, but to go for the niche but super strong unique stuff, you still have to loot and run vaults.

[@waffleclan1831]

I'm so happy to hear you mention 2 of my favorite games, diablo 2 and PoE. Iskall, vault hunters is SO good, I got my brother, whom doesn't like playing minecraft, to play vaults hunters. It is that good of a rogue like

[@JaegerDreadful]

My personal thoughts on RNG elements is that they are needed to a certain extend. I used to play Hypixel Skyblock a lot and that, in the beginning especially, is a HORRIBLE example of RNG in Minecraft. Having to put in actually hundreds, sometimes thousands of hours doing the same thing to get something is just not fun. But they solved that by putting a cap on it. They said "Ok, if you do X amount of runs of this you are GUARENTEED to get it at least once" and you could select the reward that you wanted to grind for. Now, I don't see vault hunters as nearly as grindy as that and the RNG we have in VH these days is pretty solid. Although having a meter to get a Omega gear piece would be nice (as someone who has actually gotten from level 0 to 70 without any omegas on the official servers). The only thing that might need a bit of a update is that you guarentee the player at least 2 gems when you break a ore with fortune 5. Having the possibility of breaking down 10 echo and not getting 1 gem from it is very demotivating. But yeah, you are doing a great job Iskall and dev team! #trusttheprocess

[@owen_brady]

Petezanite, Tubium, and Iskallium all start with a different letter... maybe it''s a good idea to just put the starting letter of each unique gem on the treasure door? All of the unique gems actually start with a different letter. Another suggestion would be to let everyone know they can turn on tooltips using the 1 on the numpad, and read what door it says it is on the top of the screen!

[@Starhunter1975]

That was great. Interesting conversation and friends hanging out. Thanks for the video.

[@colestokke]

Love watching you and Etho, wish you guys did more together. was so hyped when you guys started doing that modded series ❤

[@Zeek_247]

I think VH has the perfect amount of RNG. You get the fun of rolling for cool gear, but a bad roll doesn't ruin your game. Maybe a less popular opinion; I also like that a good roll doesn't make it feel like God mode. I've played modded for years, and this is possibly my favorite mod pack. It's a very nice switch up from yet-another-kitchen-sink pack.

[@starwarsthx1138_]

Vault Hunters bringing RNG/Rogue likes etc to Minecraft just makes it amazing to me... I love everything about it... I mean does RNG make things hard/grindy sure but I think over all it makes the Vault Hunters fun especially now that we have plunderer vaults that we can "farm" better gear without dying constantly.

[@nsshurtz]

Symbols on the doors and keys help solve a lot of color problems without having to change the colors

[@Yorick257]

+1, just like the ore textures got changed

[@pieguy5323]

I love Vault Hunters but haven't played any of the games you mention. I have played and love Rougelikes so I do agree that there are types of rng that are better than others. I think, as you mention tool crafting is really fun, hard (in a good way), and rewarding. Gear on the other hand does feel rough sometimes but I honestly have no idea to "fix" it

[@vogelvrouw]

I personally really like the amount of rng in vault hunters rn, i feel like in a lot of ways you still have some control over it, theres always ways of dealing with bad rng

[@rhettleadens2099]

This is a pod cast with distractions in the the background I love it

[@bladexeon]

Really good episode, i am loving the inclusion of the long form behind the scenes episodes on this channel :) I love the RNG, its what always brings me back to vault hunters. That feeling of "Oh wow, i got the Wings trinket early this playthrough" and getting to create completely different builds from my previous playthrough is what always keeps that spark going.

[@arandomdiamond2]

The number of times Iskall said "I'm out of chromatic iron? ...Oh I gave it all away" is too many for coincidence

[@aleschudarek4672]

To the FORGE room idea you discussed. Make it the 80th room of each cake-vault. Or something like that.

[@aleschudarek4672]

You know when to take the stuff to repair/modify and you have to work for it

[@sonic4spuds]

As someone who enjoys a number of table top games, my favorite ones are always ones that have complex systems that offer diverse competitive deterministic strategies, but also offer a lot of limitation and variation from randomness. For me currently having played a bunch of VH I think there are pieces that would be improved with more diverse ways to use the randomness that exists, but other systems feel great. It feels like a game that is finished and needs some polish to be better, not a bad game to play.

[@Cursed394]

I like the gamble stats dynamic of vault hunters, I think what people struggle with more is Success dependent on RNG E.g. scavs, or early game unable to progress because every xeenium ore gave 0 gems and now you’re locked out of pogs It’s also the “single player experience” - e.g. it’s great in this context of multiple people in a world having a great time and helping people out - but by balancing that it does make a single player world feel so much harder

[@philxcskier]

As far as the RNG question: I find it nice to have some random elements: but not need to fully rely on an RNG to advance. The jewels are very fun and a way to not rely as much on loot crates and make your own if that’s more your thing, while still using some randomness

[@limonka1217]

Mantis shrimp sets you on fire because irl they punch so fast and strong that an effect called sonoluminescemce, during which for a short duration theres a flash of Light and a very high temperature, it only lasts milisecond though

[@orchibald3335]

LOVE RNG and also this game is yours we are just glad to join the ride and you should make it the best version of what you love (of course critiques and suggestions are always good)

[@sethw1980]

I played a little of skyvauts. Tbh I enjoy watching yall more than playing myself. I expect yall to all win every vault going in. and when you fail it’s bitter sweet but that’s life. Don’t change it.

[@JDKempton]

Years ago in a game I needed a certain skill book to progress in crafting. The book was supposed to drop randomly between level 10 and 15. At level 30 it still had not dropped making progress difficult. The RNG needs some mechanic to insure or check an needed item drops, when RNG works against the player and fun it's broke. There is a need for the challenge and the excitement when getting a cool drop just getting everything given becomes boring. That moment a sweet item drops you want to keep going, but when it becomes work I'm gonna quit. That's my two cents worth.

[@VinceW187]

"Your character is the puzzle," an amazing way to explain so much of why I like these types of games. Thank you! 💡

[@Blue-Maned_Hawk]

“Linux systems have an out-of-memory killer that will start killing random processes in low-memory situations. You'd think it would pick the process using the most memory, but most of the time it seems to pick the process that would be most comically inconvenient, such as your screen locker, or crond.” - jwz

[@jyanak5926]

TLDR Gear Suggestion - Make a vault grindstone to remove a prefix or suffix and put it into a special book. Make the books expensive but attainable and make them use a lot of crafting potential so you'd still want to rely mostly on rolling a good set of modifiers and then adding your must have enchantments. Also side suggestion. I like the idea of the modifier workbench being able to craft over a rolled stat if we can craft it better. There have been many times where I have a great start on a piece of gear but then get a low extra durability roll or similar and don't want to take the 20% gamble of removing the right modifier. In general being able to have a clear path to your goal is fantastic even if it's a long journey. OR you can gamble in the hopes of getting something amazing. But having the choice is what makes people feel empowered to play the game their way.

[@strangepanthers]

I haven't gotten up in to higher vault levels and I'm very new to pc and online gaming but I love the feel of this game! It allows for creative freedoms and puzzles with such a cool progression line. I've just about badgered all of my friends into it because I can't get enough. I'll have to look into other dungeon crawlers for sure 😁

[@plantcraftie4141]

Nooo, the reason I like this pack so much because it's always a surprise what you get. Even with bad luck it's super manageable to still progress in this pack.

[@Arcella1981]

Not sure if iskall even reads these comments, but one thing that i feel would probably fix almost everyone of those peoples who say they don't like the RNG when it comes to stats, just bring back the void orb and make it so that you can combine the void orb with a faceted focus and then when you use the void orb on a piece of gear it will guarantee to take off ONLY that ONE stat and not anything else, I LOVE the RNG on gear but ABOSULTY hate that i cant take off specific stuff, specially when I have spent an hour on a piece of gear and ALMOST have it perfect and then WHOOPS it took off the ONE stat that I wanted and now i have to start the whole darn thing over again OH! also I think one thing you should do is when recycling a gear piece that has a legendary modifier, make it have a low chance that it will give you a faceted focus with that modifier on it, this will do a couple things, it will not make it feel to bad when you get a legendary modifier that MOST of the time is on trash gear that you would never use, AND it would make it feel ALOT better when you actually recycled it and get the legendary focus BTW Iskall if you do read this, this is my NUMBER ONE most favorite modpack ever, i have replayed this pack 7 times, so just don't want you thinking that I hate the game, I LOVE it and you and your team have done such a tremendously good job on it, thank you!

[@mwbarnesy]

I want to hear more about RNG. Vault Hunters breathed new life in the game for me.

[@LaXxBe]

So I’m a casual gamer, ✨because wooork✨… And I got to love VH since I used to play a lot of rpgs and Minecraft. I don’t love the rng simply because I don’t have enough time to play. But I found by helping myself out from time to time *cough* creative mode, everything else about the game (design, pve, gear building) is so freaking good that it’s even casually playable. Thanks so much Iskall, really enjoy your life philosophy, monologues and game design!!! ❤

[@vaaarna]

happy bday iskall!! hope you grow old and happy and keep finding the wonder and joy in both minecraft and real worlds!!

[@paulusthegrey]

RNG is essential, maddening I know, but without it you wouldn't have any expectation. To me it's the best part of some games. Gambling IRL is to me a fool's game.

[@spiinniing]

The fact that Tubbo calls Iskall dad is very wholesome 😂

[@tobyanderson5382]

As someone who has never played any of the games mentioned at the start, and not even vault hunters (unfortunate I know, I'm working on it), I can 100% say that the RNG element makes it more entertaining to watch, and I would assume that transfers to play but like I said I have no experience there, but as purely a spectator it adds an unexpectedness to the videos (some would even say randomness), and for that reason I enjoy the RNG. Hope this helps, keep up the good work👍

[@Bob_Smith19]

It cuts both ways. It’s more entertaining but becomes hell if you end up in a bad streak. Your gear can be quickly out scaled. As an example, I rolled twenty swords yesterday. All of them had min rolls for attack damage and two of them had additional prefixes that were low rolls as well. Attack damage is extremely important for AD builds and those rolls will literally kill you in a vault. There is no guarantee you can fix them in the modifier workbench because it’s completely random as well.

[@trxshlinn4679]

As someone who has never played Diablo, or any of those types of games, or even watched them, I truly love the RNG of vault hunters. I agree with your sentiments about replayability (as someone who has replayed VH many times) and it makes it fun. I agree that VH is more than just mods as I honestly enjoy all of the other aspects more. I value that it gives the mods a purpose and integrates them into the game as a goal instead of just having mods for no real reason. I love everything about VH and the updates just keep making the game better and better. As a long time VH fan I can’t wait to see where the game goes! I hope the break is restful and happy holidays!

[@erikdavis3584]

Vault hunters is a Diablo-like game. RNG is a core element of that type of gameplay.

[@liamsimon1433]

I love the locking foci idea, you could allow you to reroll the locked modifer.

[@korenn9381]

The problem with basing everything on RNG is that progression becomes playing the statistics, which means generating enough drops that you can meet the expected values. And at end-game, that turns it into a grind for the rarest things. There need to be ways to target farm most if not everything, so that you can lessen the grind. But if the odds are low enough, then even with target-farming you may never see the thing you're after. Which is where RNG starts to suck.

[@estherholt8060]

I think its really important to get the right balance of random vs planned - sometimes what the game needs isn't "true" randomness (where everything is randomly generated individually) but balanced randomness (where random factors effect each other and balance out.) For example, in elixir vaults each action gets a random amount of elixir - that means you can get super lucky and everything gives decent elixir and finish easily (no fun, no challenge) or you can sometimes get super unlucky and every single action gives very little or none (also no fun, literally impossible.) Great game design is making things appear random while balancing them behind the scenes (like rather than each elixir action getting a random amount, each gets a random SPLIT of a total amount so you always have something good, but never have everything good) - Luke Muscat, creator of Jetpack Joyride and Fruit Ninja has talked about this a lot, highly recommend his content talking about game design btw. One thing I'd suggest looking into for vault hunters is giving each player a luck score behind the scenes; every time they low roll an item or get poor oot it goes up, and every time they high roll it goes down - I know POE has a similar system to balance loot and if its working well it shouldn't be something the player even thinks or knows about, it just quietly makes them get just the right amount of lucky to enjoy the game - not so rare it gets frustrating and not so common its devalued.

[@bcxanth7]

One thing to remember about the whole gem/door color thing is that some people are color blind. Not everyone has a "skill issue." Sometimes they just legitimately can't see the difference in color and will never be able to. I'm not one of those people, but I can definitely understand what it must be like to have that issue.

[@KhanggiTanka]

RNG is fun when you "FELL" like you have some influence over it even if the outcome isn't what you hoped but contradictory humans are programmed to dislike choice, an experiment has shown that if you give a person the choice between 20 flavours of jellybeans people are fare more unhappy with their choice than when they choose between 2 flavours of jellybeans. the chance to get something isn't the problem it is the fear of missing out that people dislike.

[@TG_Akins]

what we love about ARPGs is the getting of upgrades, but not the losing of items and then needing to hope the RNG is in your favor to replace those tools.

[@Bob_Smith19]

Nailed it