Vegan Classic Cheesecake/refined sugar free, dairy free: The Whole Food Plant Based Recipe

It's holiday time and you need a great "crowd pleaser" Plant Based Vegan dessert to take to that potluck party. Well, this is your recipe. It is sure to please even the most skeptical "foodie"! I mean really, who doesn't love a classic cheesecake. It is festive looking and tastes even better than it looks. This recipe has the added bonus of being good for you. Oh my. Yes, I did say it is good for you. Can you believe it? A dessert as rich and delicious as this one can actually be healthy! Believe and Enjoy!
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#plantbasedcooking #vegan #veganrecipes

[@michellefox7441]

I'm starting to be okay with never being skinny. I made this without the crust and put a parchment circle on the bottom of my 10 inch springform pan. It was really easy and really really good. Also, this is really rich. so a small slice, like the restaurants do (and charge $9 per sniff) really is sufficient. I sliced the whole cake and actually left a couple in the fridge. They got soft (like a pudding pie) but didn't melt and were a nice compliment to my morning coffee and lunch salad. Very good! Thank you Jill.

[@riostevenson7461]

Just subscribed;) finally found a raw vegan cheese cake without using coconut oil;) will make it soon

[@JustSurvivetoThrive]

Hi!! Just wanted to let you know that I did make this cake 🎂 for my birthday and it was amazing!!! This recipe is a keeper!

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Just Survive to Thrive - Karen McGhan That's awesome! Thank you 😊

[@scienceislove2014]

Why did you transition away from veganismm..you no longer care about animals.. or was it never a concern for you in first place.. ??? If that's case.. then lemme tell ya.. youre a horrible person... and selfish.. self-centered.. you've never stepped into a slaughterhouse... so you won't know why I'm so mad at people like you

[@tammi67able]

Great to know, I will try it

[@MsJeanette1968]

I have made this and it is wonderful my family and friends love it I have added different things like strawberry and just made one with sweet potato and coconut.

[@violetxoxox]

Now my blender wants its own little house and I have to be the bad guy and say no.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

violetxoxox Too cute👏👏👏👏😊

[@vaneta6937]

It is amazing how much sound that little parking garage dampens! We have it and absolutely love it!❤

[@sunbabe3662]

I am so glad I found your channel , have been followingbforna few weeks now. So far , I have made granola, mayo, and cheese cake. The mayo for potato salad and used blueberries with the cheese cake. They were all delicious. I was so amazed. My friends and family, were also impressed by the pictures. As a result I had delicious, no salt, oil, or sugar, diary and gluten free Xmas. So much gratitude to you. Words can't express. ❤

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

michelle moore I am so glad👏👏👏👏 It makes me so happy to hear that our recipes are helping people through the holidays! Thank you for sharing 😊

[@ceolbeats7182]

Sunbabe Good on u, feels great once that rubbish is removed from system👍🏻

[@musicforreikisessions7988]

I am sooo sooo happy I found your channel! You are helping me and my family so much!

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

DieFernwehFamilie I am so glad! That is exactly our purpose, so thank you for your support 🤗

[@sehryn]

Hi. Thanks. I’m gonna make this. I made all vegan when my kids were young but that was decades ago. Now I’m baking for a new generation I wanted to see what folk have come up with in the interim. So much vegan. So much plastic!!! And processed!!! I’m so glad I found a kindred baker. Nice and natural and REALLY healthy. Thank you

[@cindyapps8072]

I have made so so many of your recipes, omg so amazing. We have been plantbased for about 5 years and so glad I found you. Thanks so much for sharing with us. Made the BBQ out of the soy curls many times and your barbecue sauce, and last night made the kale mushroom soup, oh so good.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

I’m so glad you found us too 😊

[@vir9070]

"your body will tell you when to stop" ...i-i really dont think so hahaha

[@MandyRoy425]

Mine doesn’t work like that either 😂

[@melissa_L]

try soaking cashews firs overnight, it make sit soooo smooth in seconds and no grittiness at all, and you can use less cashews (as soaked becomes a much bigger volume) :)

[@GardenJensJourney]

Yes. Cashews almost double in volume when soaked. I do have a Vitamix blender, but I still soak my cashews for at least 30 minutes.

[@eon7744]

@@GardenJensJourney Please help! I tried to make this vegan cheesecake and the cashews had a bitter aftertaste, is this normal? Do most recipies use sugar to mask the taste? Any advice/tips would be highly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

[@GardenJensJourney]

@@eon7744 did you soak and rinse them first?? They shouldn't be bitter. I use cashews a lot, for making cashew gravy, or smoothies, cashew cream or milk for lots of things. The dates in this recipe are enough to sweeten the dessert I think. I don't consume many sweet things anymore, so my taste buds have changed, and don't "need" or enjoy for things to be very sweet anymore. Regardless, it still shouldn't be "bitter."

[@eon7744]

@@GardenJensJourney Hello! Yes, I did. I pre-soaked them for at least 5 hours and thoroughly washed and rinsed them. Perhaps the cashews may have been old or stale but I tried them before the soak and they tasted fine to me.I really do not know what I did wrong, but I will try again. May I ask, how long do you recommend I pre-soaked them? Also, does it make a difference if the cashews are roasted or raw? I am pretty sure they were raw but maybe I got the wrong kind.

[@GardenJensJourney]

@@eon7744 People recommend soaking them overnight, though I have soaked them for around 1/2 hour or so. You need to use raw cashews.

[@dianawebber1333]

i am a senior and excited to learn a NEW way to live at age 73, living in oregon, I really Need help. this is my first time to see this. Thank you so much by eyes are full of grateful tears,

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Awww that is so sweet. Thank you for sharing your story Diana. We are rooting for you 😊

[@HollyBerryRN]

Eating this recipe RIGHT NOW. It's wonderful! Thank you! I used mixed berries and doubled the dates. Really yummy.

[@orginalry]

Great video. just wanted to add, nuts and seeds contain enzymes(protease) inhibitors and moderate levels of phytic acid ... It’s basically a protection against insects and to keep the seed from sprouting prematurely. If not soaked they can cause potential problems for humans by binding to nutrients in the body and contributing to nutrient deficiencies and digestive system irritation.

[@lolacookie453]

This looks delicious and its all as natural ingredients as you can get! Can't wait to try it!!

[@nanceebirdlover5222]

I'm going to make this on Friday for a friends birthday! I love your channel. Your recipes are so easy and I enjoy the calm down to earth way you present.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Nancee Birdlover Thank you. I hope you enjoy the cheesecake🤗

[@jegankandiah5877]

I want to try making this for my brother cause my dairy cheesecake tasted epic! but now he’s a vegan cause he says it’s a lot healthier

[@SukaSukaLifestyle]

Always search for cake’s recipe without sugar & egg... I need to try this one!! 😍

[@AG-jf6wg]

I made this recipe for Canadian Thanksgiving, and it was delicious! I subbed walnuts for cashew in making the crust, and I combined raw and roasted unsalted cashews for the filling. Raw cashews more expensive than roasted. The cheesecake still came out delicious although not as white. Have some extra cashews on standby in case the filling, at first, turns out too watery, which happned to me. I will make this again. Thank you!

[@abhavarma]

I will definitely make this very soon. Thank you for your wonderful recipe.

[@lynnbradley7387]

I discovered how to make vanilla extract, i pint of good quality rum and one vanilla pod let sit for at least 3 weeks, but the longer the better, way less expensive.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

lynn bradley That is great 👍

[@EyeamChefPhe]

I’m going to have to try that

[@TheObsessedGardener]

I can't wait to try your recipes! I'm a bit of a wannabe foodie (I regularly write a blog) and I'm always eager to find new recipes to report on! Every time I watch one of your videos, I'm desperate to make whatever you cooked that video. When I saw another recipe of yours that used green banana flour, I was like, "wtf is that?" And "is that going to be hard to find?" Bless the internet. I can grab some online and make that amazing carrot cake. Now all I want to do is make all the birthday cakes at work because I know they'll be whole food AND vegan. Double win.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Yes, yes, yes! That is great! I love it when people get so excited about these recipes. I am too =)

[@lenakrupinski6303]

Hi Jill 💗 This cheese cake looks so good !!! I need to try this one next on my list of your Amazing, healthy recipes. Your recipes are Divine , they look and taste so great yet as not doing. any damage to our health !! Thank you 🌹💕 🌹 for these free videos !! 🙏🎆

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Thank you Lena 😊

[@lenakrupinski6303]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow 🌹🌷🌹🌷

[@helenweatherby1694]

I am so happy to have found this channel. I am binge watching and making notes like a thing possessed!

[@corsicanlulu]

if u have to soak, just heat up w/ water for 10 mins or so, u dont even need to soak for hours at all

[@kelseygittens5420]

True, very handy tip when you're low on time. One thing to keep in mind though is that soaking the cashews in very hot/boiling water is pretty much like "cooking" them, which might cause certain nutrients to be lost. A bit of a shame if you specifically buy raw (unroasted and unsalted) cashews, which tend to be more expensive. But definitely a useful tip when you're low on time. I know I've used it before as well. XD

[@carrieanneatreides6240]

I put on the kettle and pour the boiled water over them.

[@loltoday4668]

Thank you soooo much. I've been craving cheesecake but wanted a vegan recipe. You are awesome. Can't wait to try it

[@andiebrit65]

Thank you! Thank you! I was searching for vegan desserts for my Christmas party and your cheesecake and Sophie's pecan pie are perfect. I can't wait to try these. Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

[@lindaharrell1871]

I will make this cheese cake. It looks delicious. Thanks.

[@danibryant9318]

Jill your the best for sharing all these recipes, This was so good, lasted me two weeks, it took 2 days to freeze, I am making the raspberry dressing and going to try it over Angel Food Cake instead of ice cream for my Birthday

[@happyeat6937]

Hi Dani, you have the name of one of my favorite Basketball player Kobe Bryant! Rest in Peace.. I totally agree with you Jill is an awesome Cooker with great recipes for all! You said it took 2 days to set up in the freezer?? Can you explain please? Thanks Henri 😉

[@danibryant9318]

@@happyeat6937 Funny that you say that as my daughter is half black, all thru school she said Kobe was her cousin. We loved him too, may he rest in peace

[@RosieTshair]

Wonderful recipe, thank you and on the strength of this video I've subscribed 😀 plant based is best is my absolute moto for eating ❤

[@lynebanks1589]

Thank you I am going to try this recipe. It looks delish.

[@RH-pz1du]

Awesome, i am going to make this, thank you for sharing! I love how you responded to it at the end! I showed the thumbnail and the ending to my non vegan friend and she said you remind her of me, i am always saying to her, "oh my gosh, you are going to love this!" I will let you know what she says after I make it!

[@magdalenamarijana6561]

R H dd, A O

[@vickiwhite725]

Soaking cashews adds to their nutritional value!

[@michaelscarn4619]

Oh wow! Always impressing us! Thank you!

[@atulpatel2850]

I have to make this cake. Love it.

[@Thatcntrygirl1]

Just made this. !! It’s I’m my recipe box! It’s deff a keeper !! Oh and btw if you don’t pulse it it will keep flying around longer

[@dancerloverish]

Thank you so much! This is delicious! (Just made it)

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

dancelover 👍👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@achaco132]

Hi I tried this cheesecake recipe it was awesome❣This is the best cheesecake!!!

[@blisswkc3344]

Thank You so much dearest 💐 You’re such an inspiration 🥰 Be Blissful Eternally 🙏😇

[@dkertland749]

Just made this...it's wow!! Thanku so much

[@jasminee149]

making this for thanksgiving, thanks so much!

[@maritzavalverde5975]

A I am going to make this recipe for my birthday...❤

[@judyfinnegan5268]

Deffo going to make that looks yummy great explanation tk you

[@ManuelaChristina1]

I gone try this one to 😋 loved cheesecake

[@lcorvette]

How did you not fling the vanilla extract all over your counter?? Lol Can’t wait to make this!!!

[@a.r.8987]

Thanks for your fast reply.! Understood. Makes sense. I appreciate your consideration.

[@m0jj0jj0jj0]

I wish it had been mentioned in the linked recipe that the cashews should be soaked first if you don’t have a high speed blender. I didn’t get the creamy texture described 🙁. I’m new to wfpb recipes so I didn’t know about soaking. I hope my comment will save another newb from doing the same thing. I had to add some lemon rind to the filling to get a stronger flavour. It’s in the freezer now. Whose coming over for expensive gritty cheesecake? 😔😊

[@ceolbeats7182]

Lani Haskins I eat Indian food bkfst din & T, yes vegan😂welcome newby, no need2 even soak cashews if in hurry, In Indian recipes I have learnt to rinse cashews, cover with boiling water, cook bubbling 10 min max, rinse gradually add almond milk so it combines well loose creamy mix, add pinch of salt blitz, refrigerate, 1hr, it really thickens up, add2 any sauce2 thicken add vanilla essence4 desserts. Also check out Avantgardevegan cooking site,& The Happy Pear 5,10, vegan meals, last thing😂Doc Michael Greger 3site NutritionFacts.org👍🏻dont4get your b12 & look up Bite size vegan & vitamins great site, enjoy your vegan journey your feel better every day👏🏼👏🏽don't 4get vegan gold, on you shopping list aka nutritional yeast.

[@elizabethwalker7864]

Lani Haskins mentioned in the video!

[@donnatecce1884]

She did say it

[@Gypseygirls]

Your the best on you tube.. 💕💖

[@FarkhodNiyazov]

My next weekend treat :-). I would probably add a bit of lemon zest.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Farkhod Niyazov Mmmm, good idea

[@humblebee3018]

Thank you for the lemon zest idea!

[@janice8804]

Love all of your videos, I just purchased your book

[@keishahouston7447]

This my first time with yor tryin to fit wit vegn récipients

[@chantina9091]

Definitely have to try it

[@Burningtreeblood]

Tried this. I don’t know what cheesecake is supposed to taste like. But I licked the spoon and it tasted really good anyway

[@mrscch1057]

Look spectacular and delicious. I wonder how many calories?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Calories are in the printable recipe page on our website. Link in the description 👍

[@luckyhanger1326]

OMG that looks yummy!!!!

[@alesiaw7048]

Thank you so much for this unique video 🏆✨🌹💜🤩👆🏾👆🏾👆🏾💜

[@thegirlwhospeaks236]

Awesome!

[@germanicelt]

I'd like to do this in the freezer only in summer, and use a dehydrator in the colder months. I'd prefer to use coconut cream in the filling, and not dates as they are already in the base, which i'll add cinnamon to.

[@missinglink_eth]

​The Whole Food Plant Based Cooking Show In the chocolate video you mentioned soaking the cashews so that you get rid of the nutrient inhibitors. Has the science behind that updated, or do you just find it makes a tastier product by leaving them raw?

[@t1u9b8a8]

Boy, I bet you were wishing you had that tamper. 😋 lol, but seriously, I love your channel.

[@jesusdiedforyouproofjohn3.16]

Praise the LORD for creating vegan cheesecake!

[@SomewhereInIndiana1816]

Yum! Thank you

[@curt1286]

Best cheesecake ever!

[@drgreguh9389]

can you please do a cheesecake with a cream cheese that you make with your yogurt recipe -- i ask because i just dont like the super cashewy/nutty taste in the cheesecake recipes ive tried. they always miss that sour cream cheese flavor, and i dont want to buy the junky vegan cream cheeses in stores. ive even tried macadamia nuts, even those still honestly just taste like a nut-butter cheesecake... not like that sour-ish cheesecake flavor. i can always up the fat, but those nut based recipes are loaded with fat already while not even having the main flavor of a cheesecake. thank you

[@naaniyenllcuisine4201]

Saw the chocolate version when I decided to do some research for a more healthy alternative and cannot wait to try many thank can you do soufflé also would be so helpful my new found favorite.

[@EphesianRose]

looks so good! but what are good alternatives to raisins and dates?

[@hakeemshabazz3207]

Vanilla bean power.......🤔 interesting. Never heard of it. Off to your frosty video after this one, thanx.😄

[@lorraineferguson231]

looks yummy !!!

[@mochi_4726]

What do you do when the base mix becomes a bit more moist ? Is there a way to keep it together and not fall apart?

[@aspetree]

Maybe add cream of tartar or tapioca starch as stabilizer or ground corn starch.

[@shekeeps1iclosed]

deliciousness!! dibs on licking the spoon

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

shekeeps1iclosed 😂😂😂

[@franciscachesca]

Maybe a stupid question, but you have to eat this frozen? In The Netherlands we eat cheesecake defrosted, we keep it in the fridge and it is soft and cool, but not frozen

[@max-jayderomero7743]

Totally enjoying your vids. You are quite Humerus ... lol

[@MandyRoy425]

A bone?

[@Rewildyourlife]

Does this need to be served frozen? Raspberry topping served chilled?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

It can be served frozen or after it has been out of the freezer for 15 minutes or so. Raspberry topping can be served cold or warm. It is great both ways =)

[@Rewildyourlife]

The Whole Food Plant Based Cooking Show Thank you! Will make this this weekend for my daughter's bday and tag you! Looks fab!

[@AngelaJonesPoetryStoriesArt]

That looks so good big thumbs up

[@happyeat6937]

Hey Jill, I will make your Classic Cheesecake again and I had a question about Lemon Juice.. You said 1/4 Cup which is 60ml right? But we feel the lemony taste so if I want to make it more Vanilla flavor can I had a Vanilla Tsp more or Bean? And add just 1 tbsp of lemon and the remaining liquid with Almond milk? Henri 😊

[@Funfettiwitch]

can you do a vegan version of that cream between keebler vinnea fingers or the one between oreos

[@spaceforthesoul6286]

Cool!-I would like to eat it, but don't feel like grocery shopping.. next time.

[@debratemple2865]

Very nice video.. Thank you.. 😁

[@ceolbeats7182]

Good fast play

[@fairwearth690]

Oh wow, this looks so amazing! I only have sunflower seeds leftover from the holidays (sadly the last of my cashews went into the creamy mushroom gravy and cheeze sauce I made to go with the tofu and jackfruit roast turkey and the mashed cauliflower and caulibutter). Do you think sunflower seeds would be a good substitute for the cashews in this recipe?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

No, I’ve tried using them for cashew replacement in savory dishes and it is sort of ok but definitely not for silky sweet desserts

[@fairwearth690]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow Ok, thank you Jill. Have a very happy New Year!

[@happyeat6937]

Hey Jill, I prepared your Peanut Butter Cheesecake with Hazelnut Butter as I said was an idea...it is like a Nutella Cheesecake! 🤗 Waiting for my daughter now! I also wanted to make your Classic Cheesecake but in my 6inch Springform pan to serve with other Cheesecake as 2 twins cute cakes you see? But do I have reduce quantities half for this? For example 2 cups of Cashews (like Peanur Butter Cheesecake) instead of 4 in the 9inch? And half Dates too...etc If you can help...

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Yes, I would just cut the filling ingredients in half if you use the 9 inch pan

[@happyeat6937]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow hey Jill thanks but do you mean in half if I use the 6inch instead of 9inch?

[@IAMCHIBI_VG]

What could I substitute nuts with? Thank you!

[@LC.1990]

There is nothing more annoying than staring at your $1000 blender struggling to move its blades. 😣 Great recipe though. This channel is helping me be a healthier vegan!

[@GateKeeper36]

I have a feeling we all will be eating plants in the future and maybe bugs.

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

👍👏👏

[@normanseagull4027]

Is it wise to put your hand into the machine to empty it with the blade in. Why not remove the blade or use a spatula?

[@KissimeeFL]

Im making this again for husband's birthday today. Could I replace the almonds with almond meal, pecans, walnuts, or a combo of both???

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Yes, I would probably use just the walnuts and pecans 👍

[@KissimeeFL]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow Thank you, Jill!

[@maartjebood6837]

Looks delicious! Has anyone got this recipe in grams?

[@shereedawilson7664]

Are there any raw vegan recipes that don't envolve nuts of any kind . For those of us with allergies to nuts

[@andreabaron1227]

For the crust dried mulberries

[@marieroberts2026]

You can replace cashews with raw sunflower seeds

[@happyeat6937]

Hey Jill, I already made your Cheesecake twice 😉 but can you explain how the filling can set up and stand up so well without Coconut oil? I know Cashews and Dates are in big quantity in it but why so many Cheesecakes recipes use Coconut Oil? Coconut Cream is way better fat and substitute what do you think? Henri 🙂

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

It firms up just fine when it is really cold but when it thaws, it turns more like mousse. Cheesecakes made with coconut oil can sit out longer and stay firm when just slightly cold. I don’t use oil in any if my recipes because it is not good for you.

[@happyeat6937]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow Hey Jill, Yes I saw the same things when I made it twice...soften quickly but creamy texture is so nice! I know you dont use oil and I agree you totally true! But could you try Coconut Butter (Manna) it is Natural Whole fat source like nut butters and so tasty! And good for our health... (Or Coconut Cream?) I think it may substitute Coconut Oil to firm up the Filling of a Cheesecake...please try to experiment and let me know 😉 You could prepare a Coconut Cheesecake with it and your ideas Im sure!

[@happyeat6937]

Hey Jill, Do you think it is possible to put a Date Caramel layer in the middle of the cake by separate the filling in two.. Then adding the Caramel layer on 1st half of the filling when set?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

I think that would work Sounds delicious

[@happyeat6937]

@@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow Thanks for your answer and your opinion Jill! But I guess we have to wait the first layer set up firm to spread Caramel on it.. It would be great if you could make a Cheesecake like this! 😉 Please create a Date Caramel and Caramel Cheesecake recipes! I forgot to ask you if the Cheesecake can be store in fridge and how long? For example the day before serving?

[@MedinaK-nd4hd]

❤❤

[@a.r.8987]

Hi I was wondering about why most vegans foodies use cashews for their vegan cheese anything recipes over other nuts? I'm new to the vegan recipes channels. Thanks really excited about trythe your recipes. They seem quite practical! Keep them coming. God bless!

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

A. R. Cashews blend very smooth and creamy sometimes without even soaking. Other nuts require soaking to get them to blend smoothly. Good luck on your new journey 🤗

[@critterlex3872]

When you soak or cook cashews and then blend them, they have a very creamy texture, like yogurt or cream. Other nuts don't have that creamy texture. Even when soaked or cooked, other nuts aren't that creamy.

[@mrs.valdez1387]

Would walnuts or pecans work in lieu of the almonds for the crust?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

telmahury r Absolutely 🤗

[@agentkhrisknight9674]

Droooolllll....😜

[@lawrencelawrence3920]

Thank you for this. I want to make a few and keep them in the freezer, is it difficult to lift the cake and put it in a container without it breaking?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

I would freeze it in the pa and once it is frozen, pop it out

[@muffinsgow7229]

Looks amazing what did you add to the raspberries?

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

I blended 3 dates and 1/2 cup water in a blender and then stirred in the raspberries. Here is the recipe plantbasedcookingshow.com/2017/07/04/classic-vegan-cheesecake/

[@shaynek.3806]

Can you post link for vanilla powder ??💕💕

[@lindapesnell5723]

❤️Thank You❤️

[@jodymouse7124]

Wondering does this have to be stored in the freezer if the unlikely chance of leftovers 😁 ??

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

Jody Mouse You can store it in the fridge. The consistency will be different though. Just more pudding like than solid🤗

[@tisme4743]

Jody Mouse I

[@jasminkaspaseska2261]

What can you use to replace NUTS if you are alergic

[@wholefoodplantbasedcookingshow]

I’ve tried cutting by half using tofu. I think all tofu would work but it won’t be as rich or as firm.