Vehicles in Battlefield 4 are overpowered?

[@Applewille]

I think the way that tank turrets rotate all over the place 360 in a split of a second is one of the reasons why tanks are sometimes so good, add some delay on it and its not so easy anymore, when there is infantry near you.

[@weketor2504]

True, but that might just make tank players stay behind and camp for kills. Armor is made for spearheading through and infantry should follow. Tanks should get guns/turrets/tracks/engine jammed when hit in the right spots while frontal armor could be even stronger maybe. More importantly vehicle spawns should only be bought with personal/squad infantry/capturing/arming objective points whenever you have played "the free vehicle" once in a map. Maybe any weapon class should become more expensive depending on the kills it has raked.

[@JayCord00]

@@weketor2504 they already camp , soooo...

[@gemizu4874]

@@weketor2504 Add delay and rotation speed limit to the main gun, Near impossible to sneak up behind a tank when they can check their back with IRNV in under a second.

[@weketor2504]

It's rather easy to sneak and c4 tanks even in BF4 if you just make sure they are focusing on someone. BF4 has the mobility hit, back hit and side hit but there should be a turret mobility hit too. Flir is the op thing, should have less range or 2 sec disability after each shot. Turret could have a "speed limit" but secondary lmg should stay quick.

[@camilobaffa1123]

8:25 dude just accepted his fate, RIP.

[@Hamz_a1]

Rip 😢🙏

[@darrenq.campbell3505]

Yoooow I scream when I saw that and said "f for him, he accepted his reality xd"

[@HalfPrime]

🤭

[@pastap21]

I play infantry only server, you can actually play every class instead of engineers only.

[@sk8n854]

Infantry only large conquest servers exist?

[@arkthefennecfox2366]

Idk about you but i can play the entire array of classes even on non-infantry only servers

[@Bonus7]

@@arkthefennecfox2366 Bullshit lol

[@talktorch6005]

@@arkthefennecfox2366 how? In Golmud the only viable option is engineer

[@TheSoldierChristian]

@@talktorch6005 you can use recon or support once you unlock c4

[@prizrak636]

Yeah, you are pretty much forced to play engineer class for the most of times

[@Elvy3358]

You dont play conquest without it since BF2.

[@prizrak636]

@@Elvy3358 yeah sure, but in bf4 70% of the team have to be engineers on most maps only to not be fkdby vehicles

[@virtaneugen95]

Yeah, pretty much this. I like how they've handled it in Battlefield 1 though. Everyone can do some damage to vehicles, but you still need an Assault to properly wreck them. That way everyone can contribute and you're not forced into playing only one class.

[@SilkOCE]

Yeah BF4 vehicles are definitely OP. I basically don't play infantry unless it's a very select few maps (without vehicles). I think the problem is also magnified by the fact that everyone's been farming this game for like 5+ years now. People are now MUCH better in vehicles and way more players are using them.

[@chkohl1919]

You clearly don't play as a squad like you're supposed to. Vehicles are easy to avoid. Even if you het killed moving from flag to flag, they're typically not going to kill your whole squad. Then you just respawn on your squad and cap the flag. People forget conquest is about flag control and not K/D.

[@akselhansen304]

@@chkohl1919 yeah just running for your life non stop going for flags is the reason people bought an FPS🤦‍♂️

[@chkohl1919]

@@akselhansen304 Battlefield has always had armor, helicopters, tanks, etc. and it's been a conquest/map control/objective based/squad play heavy game. Running for your life is what it's always been, so.....maybe just go play COD. Or just sit in the uncap and UCAV. You have options. By the way, K/D doesn't matter in BF.

[@rickypope5044]

Coming from the farming king who cripples servers

[@gemizu4874]

The Jihad Jeep™ is a time honoured classic maneuverer capable of taking out ground based (And even low flying) Vehicles, So long as you have a basic understand of vehicle physics you too can become the bane of the enemy teams existence... It's guaranteed to get rage in the chat from the sweatlord you just fucking nuked, Surviving the explosion is not required nor mandatory, it does however allow for tea-bagging the enemy tank carcass which can only be described as an "Only in Battlefield" moment for sure, Not to mention it's fucking hilarious and very rewarding for both your K/D, Score and overall match performance, Your team will thank you. (Just don't forget to type Allahu Akbar in chat after each kill, otherwise the enemy team will think you are just trolling) And that's just solo if you have a teammate, drop ammo on the Jeep and go around tossing C4 out the side, It's fun for the whole family. "Shit no targets on map? Send that bitch into some infantry on a cap, They love it" - OCE Jihad Jeep™ Main, You wont see me until it's too late. Beep Beep

[@mazoch1st]

Whenever I see someone defending that, "Of course, vehicles should be OP and it should take team effort to take them down", I know that it is one of those people never getting out of vehicles. They don't seek realism (they don't have a problem with reparing a tank using a wrench in 20 seconds) or they don't expect teamwork to be promoted. They only want to be invinsible in their comfortable vehicles while infantry are treated as mere farming materials. What Dice should understand is that balance is the most important thing in games. There are only a few vehicles and dozens of infantry. If you make vehicles overpowered, dozens of people will feel it. If you make vehicles underpowered, only a few people will feel it. So Dice should start the game by making vehicles underpowered and then try to balance them in time (as opposed to how they make everyting OP first). Most importantly, there is no actual reward for trying and kiling "skilled" vehicle whores. They will wait for a minute and get a new vehicle. So Dice should seriously think of limit the use of vehicles per individual, or bring a system where you need infantry points to play with vehicles (like calling the crocodile tank with squad points in BF5).

[@Vortex_ICEcold]

One of the biggest mistakes this game makes is expecting “teamwork” out of 32 players. Like could they be spew more nonsense?

[@harry1178]

I played a little bit of Battlefield 1 on PC and the vehicles' problem is nowhere near as bad as Battlefield 4. In Battlefield 4 you're all the fucking time getting stomped by tanks or planes, it reminds me of GTA Online when you're getting killed 10 times in a row by an idiot who's riding an Oppressor ( the flying motorcycle with rocket launchers ) not so enjoyable to say the least... I definitely agree with you, DICE need to find a way to limit the number of vehicles available, I don't know how exactly because I don't have so much experience in the Battlefield games, but new vehicles spawning 10 seconds after you destroyed them is absolute bullshit...

[@dirge7459]

I strongly believe that vehicle only players should be limited to use 1-2 vehicles per round, and then they get denied being able to hop in a tank/heli/jet, and forced to play with their feet on the ground, gun in hand.

[@dirge7459]

@@Vortex_ICEcold Well we got teamwork out of two world wars and multiple mini wars in the past few centuries. Only difference is the ppl playing this game are filled with a desire for a quick and easy dopamine rush, wanting to play it all lone wolf and treat others as cannon fodder. Dice games need to reject or eject these types from their entire franchise, because there are some honest to god helpful players out there. I've not got the best K/D (like that should matter when we're supposed to be capping objectives), but I'll go out of my way to revive someone or repair their vehicle, instead of leaving them to die, even if it's right up on the frontlines, I'll do it. Those that only do jets/helis/tank only?, they don't matter, because they don't think their team matters, all that matters is their K/D to them, and that's why they need to be fully ejected from this franchise, because they are willingly refusing to contribute and just treat BF like a CoD clone.

[@hawkshot867]

Yeah if BF4 was realistic 1 rpg would cripple a vehic, kill a plane/heli, and the rpg would be fast enough to swat a heli out of the air. Not to mention every vehicle moves like 30x faster than they do in real life...

[@shottykale6894]

The issue with vehicles, especially helicopters is when a player mains them and becomes incredibly good at them there is basically nothing you can do against them. In BF4 you can lock onto helis, but they can just pop counter-measures, hide for 20 seconds then be back to going 50-0. A decent heli pilot will just dodge the missiles all together because helis are just that maneuverable. When the only counter to a vehicle is a faster, stronger, more overpowered vehicle there's an issue. It's the same with tanks. Unless you have 2-3 people targeting a tank he is just going to shoot a shell at you and insta kill you. Or he will just drive away, take 10 seconds to repair the 20 damage you did, then he will be right back to shitting on your team. When you have tanks and helis in buildings mowing down your team what's the point in trying?

[@RHG_Drums]

The attack heli on Shanghai is 3000% overpowered

[@immachine1565]

Need engineers

[@ameerluiz]

The only overpower thing in Bf4 is Random lvl (3-9) player

[@marceloparreira9093]

Full of skill 100 3

[@ameerluiz]

@DAVID CLEVES GUZMAN They stop pro players kill streak easily😆

[@DVDBDH]

Went 18-0 on zavod today, got killed by lvl 4 three times in a row and left the server

[@ameerluiz]

@@DVDBDH I'm telling you lol I got smashed by lvl 3 he killed me 0-6😶

[@Max-kq8kg]

@@ameerluiz the way they play is just weird and they'll kinda catch u off guard

[@CrackyMcWestside]

BF1 had the best balanced map design and tanks werent able to turn their turrets 360° in like 1sec like they could in BF3 or 4

[@marcofearg9956]

No, maps were boring

[@akselhansen304]

Yeah kind of a shame that game is totally dead

[@alecu5885]

​@@akselhansen304 what?

[@Yeomannn]

@@marcofearg9956 BF4 has the worst maps in the series.

[@octoson5944]

@@akselhansen304 it has more players than the most recent battlefield lmao. not even close to dead

[@alexandergarzon3604]

I really don't mind any vehicles as long as they are not camping in a place constantly where they cannot be destroyed, like on a far back hill in spawn, I feel personally the balance on most maps was not horrible.

[@nicozimmer4232]

Yeahh... hate these anti aircraft vehicel Camping in there base.

[@victorballesteros9198]

That's when you get a jet to spot'em... then eject right over'em with a halo jump , put c4 on them and boom goes the problem🔥😂🤣... all in 10 seconds💪✌

[@sbow2892]

Basecamping vehicle isn't even worth to after as it's basically useless there. Only terrible MAA drivers do that and destroying it allows a better player to get in it.

[@mariodayz]

Agree, those guys who literally stay on the same spot in the air with the attack helicopter and camp you from 600 meters away are just disgusting

[@victorballesteros9198]

@@mariodayz I got a strategy for that... you get an engineer kit with Igala or stinger, preferably Igala for longer shot distance. Once you have the kit ready get in a jet , go straight up to where the jet tops out on ceiling Sky High..Eject.. pull your chute... Volia...Now you're Sky high floating down with the advantage over the skies, find the chopper, lock on from above where he can no longer hide from Death from Above 🥷💪👍... pure strategy ✌

[@Lumpyrumpus]

I think a simple enough fix for tanks would but to: 1. Give them the same turret turn speed as tanks in BFV. 2. Remove or nerf the incendiary grenades. A good nerf would to have them burn 10 HP per tick instead of 20 HP, and not have them burn players when they're out of the fire so putting your toenail in fire doesn't immediately take you down to 2 HP. 3. Remove/nerf INRV sights on vehicles. It's ridiculously OP. A decent nerf would be to only have it active for a short amount of time and to give it a cooldown of some sort. 4. Slightly reduce acceleration from a complete stop. 5. MAYBE increase damage to tanks from rockets from 20-28 to 30-38. 6. Agree that tank splash damage is pretty low in BF4, but I think there should be specific shells with more splash rather than making all tank shells give more splash damage. LAV shells already do more than enough splash damage

[@221Prohunter]

The helicopters are overpowered. I’m genuinely worried about how they’ll be balanced in BF6 because helicopters are the only vehicles that you consistently see people going 80-0 every single game.

[@alexbalex9779]

They are definetaly not OP , they are probably the hardest veichle in the game to use and on most maps you got 2 enemy jets, 2 enemy choppers, 1 AA, tanks and lavs and all the stingers/iglas on the ground coming for your ass . When you see stats like that its because the pilot is really good AND because the other team are shit and unorganized. 2 infantry with igla/stingers can take out a chopper easily for fuck sake.

[@xanderabbey8529]

Lol, yeah, helis do annoy me, but we just have to learn to take them down more consistently. Practise is all that's needed. BF4 is actually perfect for practising because it has the test range, so I don't understand why more people don't use it.

[@AendM]

the funny fact is that heli players always whine on all chat when someone is organising and using iglas/stingers to stop them so they cant just go 140-0 farm in their op vehicle xD

[@sbow2892]

That only happens in Shanghai. Helis are absolutely not overpowered in wider maps, especially when there's a stealth jet which hard counters the attack heli.

[@sbow2892]

@@AendM You do a competent heli team a favor if you try to take them out with lock ons, especially stinger which is ironically the worst possible launcher to take out an attack heli. Learn to sraw.

[@Nick-N]

No infinite ammo. For example, make attack helicopter return to base to restock ammo. Kind of like it was in BF2. Also FLIR needs to be nerfed compared to BF4.

[@clavenbeth123]

A good player can take out any vehicle. Even an AA in spawn

[@tetchedskate3366]

Depends on the skill of the pilot. I know plenty who can even deal with skilled infantry and AA relatively easily. I’d love to see more of an emphasis on vehicle vs vehicle play in bf6

[@lejenddairy]

That’s what I liked about BF4 and that’s what made it more balance then BF1 and BFV. In BF1 and BFV if you want to take out a vehicle, you have to rely on your teammates aiding you. And in a game like Battlefield, blueberries are extremely unreliable. There have been plenty of times on BF4 where I’ve shut down really good vehicle players with well place shots as an infantry. On BFV I don’t even bother shooting at tanks most of the time because I’m going to do insignificant damage and it’s going to look in my direction and blow me up. And I have balanced play time as both an infantry and vehicle player so I know what it’s like from both perspectives.

[@clavenbeth123]

@@tetchedskate3366 Everything in BF4 has a counter or a weakness. A good player reads the room and adjust accordingly. Need more vids on the Rock Paper Scissors of Battlefield 4

[@EternalTNS]

Lol except for the heli on Siege rush, that shit is invincible w/ no AA

[@aaron8973]

@@lejenddairy yeah but some are easier to use, like the MAA, I've gotten easy 40 kd rounds and I never use the AA, shit felt dirty, I'm a decent pilot so figuring out what the attack jet was trying to do wasn't hard and I just kept killing him over and over on a 24/7 Gulmud. He played with a friend in the attack helicopter and it only takes seconds to kill the helicopter and jets with it at almost any range. the MAA has weaknesses but that doesn't mean its balanced. But ig it's a pretty direct counter to OP pilots

[@fredmanning7697]

It's the IR mostly that's rough.

[@senfcommander1158]

jup. Too the point

[@kevinthejuice]

hand flares Solve that issue

[@dabo5078]

Not rlly. For helicopters sure, but for tanks and apcs I bring zoom optics instead. (Unless I’m the secondary gunner)

[@coolpfpbut]

They're only op when your teammates aren't smart enough to see them as a major threat

[@xanderabbey8529]

Exactly. If you don't take the LAV/Tank/MAA driver seriously, you'll get stomped. Simple as that. Not the driver's fault that you can't work well together.

[@sIudgefactory]

lol they be 0-26 vs the pilot and still oblivious to what needs to be done 🤣 those are the best lobbies 😅

[@canespugnaces2126]

Exactly what I was thinking too. If vehicle is killing your team...switch to a class that can take it down and go for it. A squad of law users will destroy a tank easily even with the low damaging anti vehicle launchers. People need to get out of just using one class always. Learn to adapt to how the game is going. It will end up making you a better player overall.

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@canespugnaces2126 Exactly. I die more often to squads of MBT Law Engineers who take turns hammering me. They autolock, reload fast, and do reliable damage. Even just two engineers can take down a tank no sweat if they make use of cover.

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@sIudgefactory God, I wish. I play on a server filled with godly players, but it's fun. Though tbf there are noobs that make their way on there, so I do get to farm them sometimes.

[@maxbauman8029]

I’ve been playing battlefield 4 again for about 2 months. You either be an engineer class or you are useless it feels like. You have to have the other classes play a role somehow

[@chkohl1919]

Play as a squad. Few guys with launchers and someone with C4. Spawn on your squad and make them kill all of you before you kill them. Don't worry about K/D. It's not COD. A good squad is hard to stop.

[@Itsshaunbewarned]

Well support can do the C4 Jeep thingy and also have mortars and ucavs and have unlimited mortars/ucavs/c4s

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@chkohl1919 Terrible advice

[@chkohl1919]

@@ExpertContrarian What's terrible advice? To play as a squad in a squad based game? Or to not worry about k/d in a flag based conquest game where flag control is worth far more than individual kills?

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@chkohl1919 All of it because it has nothing to do with vehicles being OP

[@johnhighway9397]

To whoever thinks vehicles aren't absurdly broken in BF4 and seriously believes we should need 3+ engineers to reliably take out a good tanker, reminder that in BF2 and BC2 you could solo enemy tanks with relative ease as long as you knew what you were doing. Going solo against a tank in BF4 however is 9 times out of 10 straight up suicide. Thermals + APS made tanks in BF4 incredibly tough. In BF2 & BC2 tanks only had smoke and an lmg to protect themselves. You also couldn't have both smoke and lmg in BC2, you had to choose which one to equip. Engineer's RPG with the extra damage perk would always 1-shot tanks if hit on the top/rear. In BF4 even a perfect 90 angle rear shot with RPG leaves the tank with 50 HP. And lets not even bring up choppers that are death incarnate and can only be taken out with an incredibly lucky tank/rpg shot or a jet. (and if enemy team has good pilots, good luck reaching the enemy chopper without getting shredded)

[@GuitarHeroHardyMaste]

I don't even think vehicles are the problem as they are per power in BF4/1/5, it's just that some of the map design and the vehicles' slots are too much. I was playing Silk Road (and other DLC maps with the same problem) yesterday and on that map alone on a 64 player server you could cram at least 20 or more players into all the vehicles on one team's side alone, they either need less infantry seats, or like BFV have a high-risk, but a buffed and actually rewarding to use gunner seat. The way they are balanced in BF4 works in a map like Paracel Storm where the AA guns are limited in their positioning, making them more active combatants, and where boats have to risk to cap flags and are at threat from the air, while also not overwhelming the amount of slots it takes from the boots on the ground. Battlefield seems to have a hard time with maps where they can't balance out the amount of vehicles to boots, or they overtune the vehicles at certain points and have the maps be made almost specifically for infantry farming. Overall I feel that it's a map problem over a vehicle problem, if as an infantry player I feel like I have no choice but to dedicate myself to rocket spamming vehicles to try and cap flags, but even with half your team doing so they can just run away quickly and spawn back in in under a minute (this being multiple vehicle spawn slots with short timers) it feels like a wasted effort and almost as if you can't do anything else, and often times it pushes me off to go play recon to just spot targets and vehicles so I don't have to bother dealing with them myself and so I can just take cheeky shots at the occasional infantry. Hell, on the farmy maps I see why supports have mortars and UCAVs, and I can't even blame them for using it when their individual presences is to just be farmed by a relentless stream of vehicles pouring from the spawn points. Edit: An idea I had for balancing could be related to the life-to-death time of any given vehicle could impact the duration it takes to respawn, because is it is right now in any BF game, if the vehicle player is really good and it's a monumental effort to kill them, they'll be back in a minute and a half, which is ridiculously short for what could take 15 or 20 minutes or more of trying to kill that vehicle player. I think that if the vehicle has been up and alive for a long time, they should have an increased spawn delay on that vehicle once it's destroyed. This way the infantry have a good reward for killing said vehicle and it gives them space to earn back ground; in it's current state, you can be 4/6 capped and then destroy a dominating vehicle, but you'll only be able to fight over and recapture a single flag before that vehicle goes back to dominating the entire map again. It just feels like wasted time and effort to see it be up and running again before the time it takes for you to even capture back a single flag, just to get reamed back to the losing side over a couple of hard to kill, well skilled players that can beat down and entire team on their own without much risk. Something like this should allow some more push and pull to the combat, like how it felt playing rush in BFC2 - at least I'd like to think so.

[@KANGAR1982]

my grope with shanghai is that helis can hide behind tons of buildings, while infantry cannot. i.e Helis have a wider map. If i see a master heli driver on the opposite team, i just avoid C altogether :D

[@trapperofthecentury5438]

Its fun trying to shoot the pilot out of the cockpit.

[@akselhansen304]

@@trapperofthecentury5438 maybe for a few min but after getting killed for the 10th in a row while also having to deal with infantry it becomes quite stale

[@fabriziomessina6734]

I got bf4 last year and i can say i almost only played locker bc of the vehicles, it is not some servers that have an issue it's all of them all besides infantry only

[@schelmean16]

also id like to see an approach to get rid of the 30+ killstreaks in helis especially a propper pilot can jam so often you dont stand a chance with a stinger maybe limit the total amount of countermeasures

[@akselhansen304]

Yeah and it's waaay to easy to just hide while waiting for countermeasures cooldown

[@jakenotjake899]

basically if youre not an engineer or have the most of your team as engineers, there op as fuck. being forced to play engineer just to deal with tanks was such a bad design choice for bf4

[@lordbezzington8435]

It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it!

[@wxnted0]

thats what she said sorry i had to do it

[@kalebsut]

Ain't the size of the boat but the motion of ocean

[@GumShuro]

Yeah the important thing is the technique

[@trapperofthecentury5438]

Nah its both

[@TexanRibs4312]

Absolutely hate them. They sit in their vehicles camping the entire game and cant even get close to them cuz i always get seen right before i plant a C4

[@matthewphillips6512]

I agree on paper with what you say. In practice, attack and scout helicopters have no counters, only checks. The stinger and javelin have a 400m range with a PLD. If the chopper comes at your squad, activates jammer, it can kill you and fly away before the jammer ends. It then has a 20 second cool down. Your full squad, with pld and lockon capabilities cannot destroy a helicopter unless the chopper makes a mistake. You can argue the realism here, but I don't see how its balanced gameplay wise. You can only destroy helicopter reliably in 2 ways, non lock on launchers like the rpg or tow, and other vehicles.

[@the_doot_slayer7015]

I think a good way to fix this could be making tanks and APC's slower, back when i played a lot BF4, i noticed how the tanks could move extremelly quick and agile. Maybe adding more teamplay in the tank, making it turn slower and a reduced acceleration could be a way to balance it

[@Twiggy163]

I felt that theyre not that much faster than they should be in the game. Tanks and APC arent exactly slow in the real world either. Turret movement is a problem though, thats as fast as the player can move their mouse. Planes are slow in the game, makes them easy targets. The restricted flying space doesnt help.

[@xanderabbey8529]

The tank isn't exactly all that fast though. Tanks and LAVs shouldn't even be sluggish either, though.

[@ehodder9]

I think something that would help balance vehicles would be, with the exception of repairs, under no other circumstances should vehicles auto repair. Maybe a step further, you must take your vehicles back to base or a friendly objective in order to repair

[@gemizu4874]

Think its like that in BF1 or whatever, Havent played in a while but i remember having to return to base to re-arm or someshit haha

[@clavenbeth123]

Everyone needs to understand the Rock Paper Scissors of battlefield 4. Maybe a video on that would be good

[@IlNamelessKinglI]

There is no rock, paper and scissor in BF4. In BF4 if you are a good Attack Jet/Stealth Pilot, and I mean REALLY good, no one can take you down. Only a Soflam + Javelin/Guided Shell combo can, and only because that shit goes through the ECMs 70% of the time. As an Attack Heli Pilot, no one can take me down, only a good Jet Pilot can. Jets in BF4 are on top of the game. Also, if you are an Heli Pilot like me and a Jet Pilot joins in, I have 2 options: I quit, or I take my Jet and take him down, somenthing I can't do because I'm not a Jet Pilot. Infantry get farmed because there are too many vehicles and too little cover. Every vehicle is weak to another vehicle and thats it. If you are a VTC you are weak to Tanks, if you are a Tank you are weak to Attack Helis, if you are an Attack Heli you are weak to Jets, if you are a Jet no one takes you down. This is not Rock, Paper and Scissors. This is just bad game design. Boats and MMAs unless you are playing against braindeads, can't go around the map, they are forced to camp in the back of the map, but they still get taken down easily by Helis and Jets. Scout Helis can ignore Ground Vehicles and Kill infantry, but they get bullied by Attack Helis, Jets, MAAs and Attack Boats. Its sad to say but even if you removed Jets, Attack Helis would become the superior vehicle and so on. The real solution to this problem is making better maps were you can't just farm infantry while being on the same spot all the time AND plan wich vehicles to put in 1 map. If you really think vehicles are balanced, you are simply wrong. I play infantry and all vehicles except Jets and reality is, Jets are on top of the game and the only thing that can take them down is a bullshit no skill broken combo that hits the Jet Pilot even tho he uses his Counter measure.

[@tetchedskate3366]

The problem is that sometimes it’s actually “Rock paper scissors god”, where there’s one vehicle guy that has put in a ton of hours into that vehicle and farms infantry kills the whole game even though infantry/other vehicles are actively trying to kill him (it’s even worse if it’s two guys like that who are teamed up). While I understand how that is just part of the game sometimes, there’s no denying that it ultimately decreases the enjoyment of the experience for basically everyone except for that one (or two) guy/guys. I’m not exactly sure what dice could do to avoid that, but I’m hoping that they come up with something that still keeps vehicles fun to play and relevant

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@tetchedskate3366 My simple solution is... get good. Simple as that. I play on a server with guys on the skill level of AKA-ART, and I used to get absolutely destroyed by LAVs and Tanks. Destroyed. I had no way to really counter them, and I got frustrated. You know what I did? I got good. Had a Silk Road CQL match and picked a tank, and decided this was the match where I got good, and I had watched some videos on tanking tips beforehand. Guess what? I killed it on that match, taking on those I couldn't before, and came out on top. Now I've mastered Attack Boats, LAVs, and Tanks and roll with the same guys that used to destroy me so we can lock down objecives. Simple stuff. If people don't want to learn or somehow can't learn, that's purely their issue. I don't think it's fair to vehicle players to be nerfed into the ground because infantry can't buck up and learn to use vehicles to counter them. People also forget that infantry is often the no. 1 killer of vehicles, with lock-on, dumb fire, and guided weapons making it trivial to kill most armored vehicles.

[@shazb0lt]

@@IlNamelessKinglI Jets aren't immune to TV and TOW.

[@IlNamelessKinglI]

@@shazb0lt yeah because good jet pilots give you the chance to shoot them with Tows and Tvs. Its not like they shoot you from an angle that doesn't allow you to shoot back...

[@diclonius7]

Vehicles in bf4 are op (particularly air) because the so called counters for ground are basically nonexistant. You can go engie with stingers but because of it's short range ~300m and slow travel speed, pilots have a generous amount of time to hit flares while speeding along the ground. The flares also last a good amount of time ~5 seconds?, making it so that the "counter" to air is really more of just a "hey, go away" for pilots. They come in, shoot their barrage, get tracked, then speed out and hit x. Rinse and repeat, never actually dying. Even worse still, is the fact that a stinger hit is actually just a mobility hit, not a kill. The problem is that flares last so long and pilots speed away, that it's literally impossible to ever get a second up lock-on unless the pilot just stays in the area.

[@Ivanus59]

Absolutely they are OP! For starters they move too fast. This might not have been such a problem if not for the fact that infantry counter measures against them like the RPG and even SMAW are TOO SLOW! Really, if I want to hit a moving tank with my RPG I have to lead soooooo much ahead of him to hope to hit, and even then that only works if the tank keeps it's trajectory and speed, which he might not! If tank simply abruptly stops or turns my shot will miss and then I am in even bigger trouble. In real life, RPG/SMAW projectiles move waayy faster then in the game, irl you can't really see them with the naked eye since how fast they go. But in this game RPG projective moves at the speed of a thrown frisbee lol. :] Dice even knew this so they gave us the first LAT weapon that autoguides to the target but it does very little damage. Having an auto-aim weapon is not fun for me! The fact that the game needs to resort to self-guided rockets and holding the player's hand just to at least damage vehicles a bit shows how balance is not good! Then they need to nerf the repair speed of vehicles, you shouldn't be able to ninja repair any vehicle THAT QUICK! If repair speed was nerfed then vehicle users would be forced to be less aggressive cause they would need to plan more carefully how to hide and repair. Maybe even nerf the thermal imaging so it's less drastic. Then after those nerfs are in place, we could nerf the SOFLAM + handheld AT rocket work so that you actually need LINE OF SIGHT in order to get the lock on, cuz getting free kills on just for locking on and shooting the rocket without the need for aim is also not fun. As for helicopters, they should nerf the takeoff time so you can't instantly just propel your helicopter into the air as if it was a damn grasshopper AND introduce collision to the rotor blades so they can't do crazy stuff like fly inside of buildings or hug walls and cliffs to hide (or not so easily at least). They could still do all the stuff they did before but would need to be more careful to pick where and how to land to do repairs.

[@mutantattorney652]

my one problem is the vehicles, bf4 Is one of my favorite games, and coming back and fighting a vehicle player makes me clinically insane.

[@Faddnn]

One of the problems in BF4 is that there is no skilled counter for the air vehicles. Yes, a rpg can do it against lower-level AH/jets, but against a good one, that will be a lucky shot. The SRAW is to easy to doge as well.

[@user-fb7xq9xv9r]

they are in BFV too, if you camp near your spawn you're almost invincible, as you can flee to your base and repair as soon you get damaged

[@lejenddairy]

And DICE thought it was a good idea to make it a team effort to take out vehicles as an infantry and make it so that rockets do less then 20 damage on average. There’s been times where I get shot by four different assaults using bazookas and Panzerfaust and it does absolutely fuck all to my tank and I just blow them up and rep. I break 50 kill steaks on the regular and I’ve broken 100 kill streaks a few times in the tank and I can confirm they are definitely unbalanced as hell. They need to make it so that solo players can take out vehicles fairly easily again and they need to do away with this system where you need a group of players to kill one vehicle because blueberries are unreliable. We went from being able to get the job with 2 C4, or a couple of rockets back in BF3/BF4 to needing 3 dynamite, a couple rockets and an anti tank grenade just to kill a single tank in BFV. Ridiculous if you ask me.

[@nothing25100]

@@lejenddairy i Agree in Bad company 2 it used to be 3 rockets and thats it. Tank destroyed and you kept going to get objectives the team was not afraid of camping tanks and campers in general back then The game wasnt camper friendly then and that made it the best back in day 🤣

[@johnhighway9397]

@@nothing25100 BC2 nailed the vehicle balance. Tanks? They didn't have thermals/APS, only smoke or maybe an lmg. They can be 3-shotted frontally by any rocket or 1-shotted in the rear with extra damage perk. Helis? They had no annoying countermeasures (only smoke), no guided missiles, they couldn't fly 1000m above the map, they took serious damage from all vehicle/static LMGs and the M95 sniper. AA emplacements shredded them and the UAV was also an excellent counter. Jets? None!

[@flyhighsavings]

pain in the ass especially if theres few engineers bro what the fuck was dice thinking@@lejenddairy

[@shadas_guinness5216]

Great video and spot on Art, big part of the problem is that not enough player's are clued in what's going on and don't know to switch up class to stop the killstreak.

[@Jaydash-]

My 2 most hated things from BF4, Vehilces and 3d spotting spam. Vehilces just straight up ruin matches more often than not, and 3d spotting was implemented so poorly. I beg they switch it up for 2042

[@itwaslagiswear8511]

Longer respawn timers, tickets for vehicles that make them a finite resource not infinitely spawning kill machines. No more infra-red. Maps that have sections that are only accessible by infantry like underground capture points. I know people say that vehicles are what make a BF game but I frankly hate them. I like playing engineer and all but my Engi is maxed and none of my other classes are. They need to allow light armored air vehicles take substantial damage from LMGs. Most LMGs would shred a little bird or attack chopper. Its choppers and light tanks for me that ruin any maps they are on. I really hope these concerns are addressed in some form or its gonna cause me to quit early just like with bf4.

[@itwaslagiswear8511]

Another change, make it so vehicles dont auto resupply. Make them have to return to a friendly control point to resupply their ammo.

[@spateri728]

Thermal sights was pretty OP. Preferred when you could C4 with just 2 of them before they changed it to 3.

[@M0EJ0EKING]

honestly wish there was a 1 hit kill on the back right corner or something so tanks couldn't be so aggressive knowing its gonna take 2000 rpgs

[@randomprofilelol]

active protection and quick recharging black fog were the bane of my existence on bf4. its bad enough that the tanks and helicopters are already strong af, but the fact they got counter measures like that to repel anti air and anti tank weapons that were already weak is ridiculous.

[@akselhansen304]

Yeah it's impossible for a single engineer to do anything fire one rocket that gets eaten by active protection then the tank knows where you are and you die before you can even get dmg in on the tank its so stupid

[@hamzah_m]

@@akselhansen304 and some MFs be like: well, play as a squad and spread out and attack at once, this way you can destroy the tank. Like, ok we destroyed the tank after ALL THIS EFFORT. 1-2 minutes the MF spawns the Tank again! I am not gonna sit around WITH my team just tank hunting for hours, Fuck that. Let the server fucking die, let the game FUCKING die.

[@LeaveMeAloneFBI]

And they fucking added active protection bsck in 2042. These fuckers never learn

[@Ryuxun]

It's one of the reasons i prefer bf1, while the Heavy bomber is still Broken AF, the vehicles are 100 times more balanced than Bf4's.

[@LuisMarquez80]

BF4, my favorite FPS of all time.

[@BigFry9591]

Can't really do anything in BF4 when the server owners ban everything that could help you counter enemy vehicles.

[@virtaneugen95]

Best way to counter them is to not play on those servers I guess

[@joshsmith-qi3ph]

Bigger maps or less, more impactful vehicles. Or make rockets do more than 20-30 dmg on HC. 2 guys in a tank can easily outrepair some guy trying to kill it. Let's be honest, it's pretty rare to hop in a server and see people working together. Pretty common for me to run out before I kill it while one of the crew is keeping it up.

[@jussi3378]

Perhaps add a possibility for custom servers to set a limit for each player to spawn in a vehicle? Like during a match, you could only take the jet like 3 times. This way if there is a particularly obnoxious vehicle player, the opposing team could focus him down for a permanent reward, and there perhaps wouldn't be a need touch the balance of the vehicles vs infantry

[@sIudgefactory]

vehicles were amazing in bf4. everyone was useful they tried nerfing attack heli to the ground. there's always skilled players would take you out with smaw or rpg. not to mention lobbies you got 18 stingers on other team lol. i hope bf6 is even close to the maps and weapons of 4

[@rurallegendstv]

99% of your problems can be alleviated if there is 1 recon with a PLD.

[@KANGAR1982]

exactly, its a team game. If you coordinate in your team, 1 support + 1 engineer + 1 recon with PLD you can dominate

[@HalfPrime]

You're right, just like in bf5 with the periscope but no one ever uses them it's a shame

[@HoshinoMirai]

Instead you get 10 recons sitting on a hill with 20x zoom sniper rifles. Charming.

[@milk_thief806]

What do plds do?

[@b-ruckus5671]

@@milk_thief806 laser lock targets for teammates

[@DarkLorde]

I still play BF5 with friends regularly and I will say that it has ZERO autobalance and if you want to change teams you have to leave the server and rejoin. Also, some of the planes in BF5 are a tad OP because they have the attack range that the player's antiair can't match. So many planes snipe from super high altitude and the fliegerfaust can't touch them or even the AA guns can't compensate against them fast enough before they're blown away. It didn't feel that way in BF4 since we had a bunch of lock-on weapons that had good range on them.

[@nupa505]

Right now I feel like the vehicle-infantry interaction is balanced for the average Friday-night player. They'll try to get right into the action to do some tanking or infantry things. A good vehicle player -- alone -- can dominate on the server because it requires a squad to take them down. Being effective with vehicles doesn't require that much support. The overall chaos and existence of other players is enough. No matter how good you are at tank hunting, the tank player is able to outplay you quite easily. Same for aerial vehicles. You need a good pilot to counter another good pilot. Funniest people are the viper pilots who say "Just take an rpg and shoot me, it's a one hit kill." Idk about you but can't even remember the last time I got killed by a non lock rocket launcher while in any air vehicle. As per lock ons, I can just hide behind a mountain or something. I'm not even good with tanks but I can get a K/d of 6 or 7 top the sb pretty easily. Tanks are very agile and have a terrifying range they project power in. There is no culture of real team play like there is in CS or siege for example. Often what happens to me is that I start gravitating towards playing stealth jets when getting farmed by tanks or helis. The MAA is pretty much the only thing that can take me down excluding pilots more skilled than me. Either that or I simply leave since the fun factor, aka the reason 99% of the playerbase is there for, is no longer there. Edit1. Not being able to 1hko a viper with 1 shell was the worst idea Dice came up with. It's difficult but the reward currently is just gunner and pilot switching seats, popping an extinguisher and killing you with 4 zunis.

[@Free_Krazy]

I feel the vehicle balance is on point with the general chaotic nature of the game.

[@mullahgaming9446]

Oh yh so explain that heli main with a 78-4 kd

[@RogerNbr]

the only problem is that most maps have way too many vehicles as a result infantry usually gets overwhelmed and farmed

[@GaboG3]

@@mullahgaming9446 shit admin banned lock ons

[@mostunique5941]

@@RogerNbr if they kept the number of lethal vehicles as what it is in bf4 but the teams were 64v64 then it would be fine.

[@sIudgefactory]

@@mullahgaming9446 78-4 isn't that special lol means the enemy team ruined his chance of perfect 100 plus game xD i'm guilty of maining attack heli as well but always notice a decent player who can shoot rpgs effectively. or even servers where whole other team is focused on taking you down... makes it more exciting but first time they kill me they've won lol.

[@Thamac15]

The heli sure seemed OP at times but then when they dodge every rpg, you and your squad spam the hell out of those lock-ons! Heli pilots rage like no other!

[@sIudgefactory]

exactly. i was a heli main and i get it can be annoying but there's so many ways to be taken down lol. could never be mad at other team for finally deciding to run 20+ lock ons 🤣 we asked for it but the real threats are the guys shooting smaws stalking u out ! stingers just give easier kills to the pilots showing where the lock on is coming from

[@imza5535]

But it's getting a squad to have lock ons that's the issue. There is no teamwork or barely any

[@waynereloaded87]

Thermal on Tank driver, LAV Driver and Attack heli gunner is OP. Its basicly just shooting at white dots with splash damage. Mines become useless. As a assault, recon and support the only thing you can do against a Tank or Heli is hide. With thermal you cant even hide. Only non splash damage gun operators shall have thermal.

[@matteoziegler7632]

my problem is that it takes 1 person to control a tank but atleast 5 infantry players to take them out (if they coordinate it right)

[@schelmean16]

another issue in bf4 are armed vehicles spawning for the already dominating team on the flags they capture this hurts the bad balance even more

[@danieljohnson6148]

Being able to have 3 weapons would solve this.... vehicles are like bosses and you need to pull a heavy weapon to take them out.. sooo the 3rd weapon should be for example anti material sniper. rockets. Then balance them out small ammo capacity direct hit kills only..

[@Elvy3358]

I agree very strongly with you that a good heli or jet pilot without decent players to counter them is fun ruining experience.But if people know that the objective isnt taking flags only but get dedicated squads prepared to counter vehicles 24/7 for both teams,people would have fun,but it isnt the case all the time.

[@lejenddairy]

No Battlefield is perfect, but as someone who plays both infantry and vehicles evenly, I would definitely say BF4 has the best vehicle balance out of all the recent titles because they had the highest skill ceiling and imo it felt like it was more manageable to take out the hardcore vehicles players compared to other Battlefields. BF1, a lot of the vehicles aren’t necessarily over powered with the exception that some are arguably broken (heavy bomber) but in BF1 vehicles are extremely easy to use. In BFV vehicles are pretty also very easy to use and overpowered in a lot of scenarios. I think the reason why the balance sucks in BFV is because if you’re playing infantry and you want to take out a tank for example, you have to rely on your teammates assisting you in taking out said tank. And in a game like Battlefield, teammates are extremely unreliable. Hopefully in the next Battlefield, they do away with the sort of system where it requires a group of infantry to kill a vehicle and we can go back to the system where solo players could take out vehicles with ease.

[@derbyedits4959]

In bf4 you have ECM but in bfv you can't really avoid the fligerfaust other than being really passiv

[@akselhansen304]

It's just insane how tanky vehicles are the rockets are beyond useless against all the reactive armor and crap A single engineer can't even take down a tank on his own I think vehicles would have been less of an issue had there not been 10 unkillable vehicles on each side

[@sl0ptart]

It's why I prefer hardline over bf4... Hardline is still one of my favorite shooters

[@TaylorBrisk]

They need a point system in 2042, so you need to earn your way to get a tank or helicopter or whatever. Vehicles just ruin the experience for the ppl who just want to fight infantry vs infantry and OCCASIONALLY fight a tank.

[@xanderabbey8529]

I think Hainan's C objective and the like are nice infantry-only objectives. I think there are some objectives on Zavod, like C and D that are better for infantry to take on than vehicles. People just need to learn to go for these more often to avoid vehicles.

[@Deekay1958]

And we find the reason I preferred playing Gun Master in BF3 and BF4.

[@pixel6173]

honestly, I personally love the vehicle balance in BF4. sure, vehicles can murder infantry with _ease_. but, thats litterally what these vehicles are designed to do. the attack chopper might be OP in battlefield, but have you seen those things in person? ofcourse theyre powerful, theyre loaded with insane weaponry. it just makes sense for these vehicles to be as strong as they are. the thing is, there's _plenty_ of ways to take out a strong vehicle player. if they have a heli, you can use a SOFLAM or PLD to laser lock it, then get someone with a javelin to take it out (even if a Heli pilot ECM's after this lock and the lock gets lost, if the javelin has been fired it _will_ hit its target, unless something gets in the way). then there's stingers, and also AA mines, RPG's, etc. as for tank players; all you'd need is about 3 guys with RPGs and you can take down any good player in a tank in mere seconds. Battlefield has one thing that is more overpowered than _anything_, but its always overlooked. this thing would be teamwork. its so insanely powerful to work as a team in Battlefield; yet its rarely done.

[@Craft_a_Cafe]

The problem with the vehicles isnt the that their are overpowered. The problem is the "fast spawn" spam of them.... so u have to fight them constantly...

[@giannis7707]

True

[@piggleman5009]

I don't have much time in BF4 and just picked it up for the most recent summer sale. Only 25 hours in. And I can say vehicles feel impossible to deal with. I see a vehicle "Oh, guess I lose now" even when I try to punch some RPG rounds into it. Avoiding them means I have to run across the map which takes ages and makes me vulnerable to more vehicles. The game is a lot of fun for me when most use vehicles for mobility and infantry for fighting. Infantry only, like Operation Locker, is just boring to me. But in maps where I like to run around only means I get killed by people in metal boxes. It's just extremely frustrating and makes me just not want to play anymore.

[@hasankh4n]

Sometimes the reason why vehicle players dominate and go on huge kill streaks is because everyone on the other team just thinks its someone else's problem. Map and situational awareness , with a bit of teamwork can harass vehicle players enough to limit their streaks or even stop them. A concerted efforts between 2/3/4 players can usually take out tanks or helis I've found. It's only when one person keeps trying and the rest of the team is resigned to getting destroyed by the helicopter I would get annoyed. One PLD can annoy vehicle players enough for the rest of the team to take initiative and take them out.

[@NHGAFWYUTB]

May just be me, but the overall balance for vehicles in BFV is insane. Using every rocket/AT grenade/dynamite against a tank without getting a kill is absurd....

[@lemmonboy6459]

I’ve 1V1 a tank before and won, only caveat is that it took 1 AT grenade, 2 Panzerfausts, 1 lunge mine, and 2 M1 Garand grenades to kill it But that is just a 1v1, the balance would drastically shift if I had a buddy tag along

[@jyotiradityasatpathy3546]

@@lemmonboy6459 I mean if they made it such that it's easy to 1v1 a freaking tank, that would be even worse

[@Empire_JeSzO]

It was better at launch, but for some reason they decided to buff the tanks to be op noob vehicles again.

[@NHGAFWYUTB]

@@jyotiradityasatpathy3546 I agree it shouldn’t be easy but cmon, dynamiting tanks is already not the easiest thing to do, especially if you have a competent tanker.

[@lemmonboy6459]

@@jyotiradityasatpathy3546 He missed nearly every shot and nearly killed me as well so there’s that :/

[@SeanVandersluis]

There is not enough anti vehicle weapons across all classes in bf4. It's trash

[@phonicpumpkin27]

I think one way of leveling would be to not allow the driver to view from the outside of the vehicle (3rd person). I think it will be harder for the tanker and easier for the enemies to take out the tank of you can sneak up without being seen if you don’t go right up the front.

[@samimustonen3290]

Take self repair and passive repair out of tanks and helicopters and make it so jets have to disengage so they can repair in the air. This makes it so if they take any sort of damage, it builds up and they have to remove themselves from the fight to repair and they have to have a teammate to achieve this. I only play hardcore anymore since it puts more focus on team play and tanks actually have retreat once in a while so they can repair

[@MavenFade]

Before even watching the video, they should be overpowered because its realistic, and quite honestly im completely happy with the current balance of BF4 and would hope they continue that for BF6

[@xanderabbey8529]

Same. I'd be enraged if things like LAVs, Tanks, and Attack Boats were nerfed. Putting in the time to learn to use them well, only to have them nerfed is not cool at all. And, yes, it is realistic that vehicles wreck. What's the point of them being there if they couldn't?

[@MavenFade]

@@xanderabbey8529 and im saying this as a BF4 PS4 player whos only vehicle im super skilled with is the Scout Heli, im marginal with the other vehicles. People are so soft nowadays. Get good scrubs!

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@MavenFade Ahaha, can't wait to farm more scrubs. Wish I'd get a good attack heli pilot on my team on PC... If you ever get on PC, you know who to call XD

[@MavenFade]

@@xanderabbey8529 never played on PC and i dont have reliable internet yet anyway, currently i hop on ps4 like once or twice a week at my buddies house to keep the skills sharp 🤪🤣

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@MavenFade 😂😂😂 I know the feel, man. Still have internet issues myself XD

[@thomascarpenter5673]

how about giving support something like the PLD of sofam? something so that they can get the hard lock onto vehicles. I dont get recon having it because they aren't antitank and both of those equipment are meant to take out vehicles? I think its important that two or three people can eliminate an average pilot or tank without communication. its very hard to balance but these are just ideas i had. what do yall think

[@giannis7707]

Yeah great idea, but it has to do with the fact that reacons are the ones that go to the high places to scan for vehicles and soldiers, very good idea tho

[@pixel6173]

im a recon player who does exactly this. I place down a soflam and let it autolock stuff for my engineers. works great

[@thomascarpenter5673]

@@pixel6173 you are a rare breed then my friend. I try this and my squad either wont lock on to the target or just wont play engineer. I think the issue is that engineers need to be abke to do more damage to vehicles so therefore i think they need to get something like a soflam or the tracking dart from bfbc2

[@alirezajahanbakhsh7890]

I think they could probably make vehicles more like BF2 (specifically TV missiles) or force certain vehicle traits like thermal sight to have a limited time of usage before the need to recharge. They can also make them Heavier, or make the turret rotation slower, but that may not be suitable for a game as arcade an chaotic as battlefield. Final idea is multi crew vehicles like red orchestra in which the tank driver just drives and cannot shoot. But then again, battlefield is not a simulator. So they should figure it out without making it over complicated.

[@ry_an.]

They’re not overpowered. A great player will dominate obviously, but there are counters to everything. If you have 3 or more guys working together, you can take out any vehicle.

[@giannis7707]

Yeah and what if ur a solo reacon for example or your squad consists of apes who dont even know what mines are for?

[@Twiggy163]

@@giannis7707 well, like you said: thats not the vehicles being overpowered. Thats your teammates being apes.

[@giannis7707]

@@Twiggy163 yeah most of the times they are, even if im targeting with pld every vehicle on the map they cant even shoot a fucking rocket, reallity is tho that some maps are forcing u to play engineer to be able to win

[@GaboG3]

@@giannis7707 if you're a solo recon you can run the PRD (i think that's what it's called) and paint targets for your team to take down

[@giannis7707]

@@GaboG3 yeah believe me i do and guess how many of my teammates actualy fire at them? NONE

[@LeaveMeAloneFBI]

There's a reason why maps like locker or metro are often the most played maps

[@dannyinthefrontlines9386]

Great vid mate🔥

[@llJeezusll]

Honestly I'd say they are even stronger than BFV vehicles And then BF3 and BF2 vehicles obviously take the cake for most op

[@stickytex]

Thankfully I never got into 2 or 3 lol I’d have raged quit 😂 BFV got me spoiled when I went back to trying play BF4 it felt like a huge difficulty gap but I did manage to kill a tank that was already damaged but I agree with art a better map designs wouldn’t hurt but then we also got this new levelution they are teasing...imagine a tank pulling up and bringing down a whole building full of people then everyone leaving the server 😂

[@J831-s3n]

The easiest counter to any helicopter specially the little birds is deploying an AA Mine when the pilot gets close. The pilot won’t get a chance to deploy countermeasures & will be immobilized for about 5 seconds which is when you can switch to an rpg and shoot it at pretty much point blank

[@AsiaMinor12]

That's only for the little birds and nothing else

[@findawaytowin2968]

My problem with battlefield games has always been how tanks are implemented. Tanks and other heavy vehicles should be a complete force on the battlefield and it should be a big deal when you see one. It’s annoying how every game you just see them all over the place. It cheapens the feeling. It feels like you are playing twisted metal as an infantry just trying to not get destroyed as you run around

[@avaliantsoul5408]

One of the big things (imo) that changes vehicle balance is how many players are running AV. In BF4, running AV require engineer, which leaves you with shorter range weapons that are generally inferior to ARs and LMGs in medium to long range. But typically, infantry will engage vehicles at medium to long range. Vehicles are rarely destroyed by a single infantry player, especially if the pilot is skilled. So you need other players to recognize the threat and move with you to eliminate it. But that means they need to run AV, which means they all need to be the same class. In BFV, while planes are still fairly hard to take down as a single player, most people are playing assault, and thus have some form of AT, which results in tanks not lasting quite as long.

[@NikolaiMihailov1]

Vehicles are OP,and they always have been. But what sucks is your team dictates on if they're OP or not. If you have a team who's competent vehicles are just another tool. But if you have a team of blueberries who won't get off their DMRs and sniper rifles to help,well,vehicles become OP. It doesn't help that you can run both 2 missile defense items on most airvehicles. IMHO,AT/AA weapons should be powerful to punish bad positioning and piloting,but they shoudn't be so powerful that it invalidates vehicles. That's a delicate balance to keep,and DICE dropped the ball in 4 with the Stealth AND flares. You should have to pick one or the other,not both.

[@tugrulserhat]

tanks and planes should be a lot harder to play with imo. slower to move, slower to turn both in the air and on land

[@StrmyShadw]

I think the tanks needed more splash damage. I can’t tell you how many times I shoot people and they just run away unless it was a direct hit.

[@hithere7382]

M1028 canister shot, son.

[@MrJustsaysean]

Thermal optics are very powerful so i think the tank gunner should only have it,plus the gunner can only repair,not the driver. In heli,same repair rule applies,but can only repair at base.The gunner may have thermal but the transition between thermal and normal is slow,giving infantry a chance.

[@rayyone1]

The problem with vehicles in BF3/4 is, that it takes forever to get the top weapons like TV missiles etc..As, in order to unlock these, you need to compete with enemies which already are equipped with top weaponry loadout. This is giving you quite a hard time to level up your vehicles, I think. BF 6 should supply a good solution for this issue.

[@AsiaMinor12]

I don't know if you and me are playing the same game. Vehicles in BF4 are almost meant for children in just how easy they are to use. They are really easy to maneuver, they are incredibly fast, their weaponry are really powerful even just as a person starting. Anytime you are in danger you can just book it back to some safe area so you can repair your vehicle. You can easily get all the best weapons if you just use common sense and not charge into areas with high amounts of enemies.

[@mgproryh]

I'd agree mostly, I know a particular fave server of mine in BF4 theyres a few regulars and if I join with certain ppl on my team as they 5 stack a squad too it's going to be a 100% win ratio from that point on, if I join on the other side depending on my friendlies and if I'm squaded up its like 30/70 or 50/50

[@waitnbleed4slipknot]

I feel like adding a bonus to switch to the losing team would be pointless after a few months when people start maxing out every class. They wouldn't really care for bonus xp if it means losing. I believe people who are really good have a winners complex to where if they lose in anything they get pretty butthurt about it.

[@sweatypalmz2812]

As someone who mains vehicles, I believe the main issue with the heli is the gunner (this can be countered by implementing a slower rate of fire or less ammo), if the pilot can kill you, they need to be able to aim pretty well while still avoiding lock ons, the aa and ground vehicles. The jets are probably the hardest vehicles in the game (bf4) and I don’t see much wrong with them except the fact that the attack jet does an absurd amount of damage. The attack jet can be countered by lowering cannon damage from 52 damage per strafe to 45, which will require a 2nd or possibly 3rd strafe if missing shots. Anti air tank is also over powered in terms of being able to shoot across map out of spawn and spam active radar missiles, this discourages new players from being able to learn how to fly and prevents growth in game. AA should have active radar removed and have medium-long range capabilities, not cross map range. Overall, BF4 vehicle balance is pretty good but could be better with a few small tweaks and changes.

[@tiorast6802]

I know is a year man, but my experience right now is seeing passive AA players almost doing nothing, in one match i was harrasing air like i´m suppost to do since the last two matches on the same server got me frustrated how useless and dude i´m not lying our team AA was killing nothing in air, not even going into combat with thoses air pest so i picked the AA (i never used it before) and do was AA job of taking down attack and scouts since they were harrasing my team (specially the attack helicopter was playing like a passive 2000 miles away shooting and switch to gunner)

[@MaliciousFalcon]

There need to be less vehicles and they should have a slower respawn time, but they should be strong by default. That way, their presence will create a justified sense of pressure and, in addition, taking down a vehicle will actually mean something. Players won't just be able to hop back into another one right away. They would have to choose between: - waiting it out in the respawn screen for another vehicle and putting their team at a disadvantage because they're not playing the objective. - hit the field as infantry. In addition, if there's less vehicles, people will stop using them as disposable taxis. Lastly, they should have limited ammo and be able to be resupplied at the base or certain capture points. For example: Point "C" can resupply tanks, but not helis, jets, etc. Point "B" can resupply helis, but not tanks. That way, players could strategically take over a certain capture point on the map because that point allows them to resupply their preferred vehicle. Those points will often be prioritized, similar to the Gunship Capture Points in Battlefield 3's Armored Kill Expansion. It will create heated "tug of war" games. Loads of fun!

[@KalenTomlinson]

Some great ideas here especially the one about joining a losing team could add a Easter egg with it. I wouldn't mind if they doubled the amount of vehicles took away some of the invisible barriers/killzones to expand the maps they have. And buffed explosives.. Maybe adding weak spots or making armor weaker would be a cool feature. I actually wouldn't mind more tanks in those situations. You're right working with a Squad is better, you could cooperate and set a bunch of Mines down or simultaneously shoot your Rockets and c4

[@psalm302]

Bro the aa tank+ lancanDamn= rage for all air vehicles

[@awrybowtie5591]

My biggest issues with vehicle balance are: 1. The lack of risk vs. reward for vehicles, specifically in two scenarios: ranged combat and solo farming. Firstly, things like tank sniping and high-altitude strafe runs really shouldn't be as viable as they currently are (100+ kills for 1 death cough cough), and I think the biggest culprits are AOE damage and ammo resupply. There should be less AOE damage at range to mitigate that, and I much preferred BF4's ammo system compared to BF3 or BF1. Secondly, the amount of value a single person vehicle outweighs too much what a infantry squad can accomplish. I actually like when fully filled vehicles (transport heli, amtrac) dominate, because it takes significant teamwork and coordination to execute. But If someone is just solo-ing a tank and get 100 kills in 10 min ... that's an issue. It's fine to have solo vehicles (since team dependence can be frustrating) but the carry potential should be lower. 2. The lack of anti-vehicle weaponry for every class. Does this erode on engineer's niche? Yes ... but hear me out. I think every class should be able to leverage something to help defeat a vehicle. BF1 did surprisingly OK in this regard as: every class had access to light AT grenades, and there were class-specific gadgets like limpet mine, K-bullets, rocketgun, etc., and stationary but surprisingly strong AT and AA guns. I think it was nice because it was no longer a "you can do absolutely nothing vs. a tank b/c you're a medic ya loser". I think this'll also help with making infantry vs. vehcile combat more dynamic. 3. Poor map design. The best BF maps include good balance of vehicle and infantry-friendly portions, or at least regions that more generally more suited for that kind of gameplay. Maps like Caspian Border, Propaganda, St. Quentin Scar, Arras are fan favorites for this reason, but often times it feels that DICE just goes either all-out infantry or all out vehicle. For the latter in particular, usually all that DICE does is create wide open areas with no cover and large distances w/o any transport vehicles. Fun for vehicles, not so for everyone else.

[@senfcommander1158]

I kinda disagree with the point of players farming in vehicles.... In bf1 and 5, where it takes no skill at all, Its shit yes, but in bf4, where you need to learn how to play a vehicle well, Im totally fine with it. Players who put the time and effort into mastering a vehicle should be rewarded, and not limited.... Anyways, great vid and good points as always ;D (also Locker and Metro players can go and play Cod lol)

[@alexbalex9779]

Well said!

[@fishincheap1102]

I’d say map design is everything. Personally I think the two shouldn’t mix unless they want to risk something for a good reward. Like hammerhead how infantry can be outside but they risk fighting vehicles for a better position. And vehicles can be inside the two mid points where there is lots of people to kill but not really any cover for them edit: i watched the vid and this was said whoops

[@GuitarHeroHardyMaste]

I don't like the idea of having areas where infantry can hide and are encouraged to do so almost indefinitely, just because if one team controls that area than the opposing team just lose extra hard due to losing the single point, or points of interest around it. I just feel like the vehicle frequency is too high on some maps, and some of the maps are designed specifically for infantry farming, and there's no real reward for taking down a vehicle in BF games, it just almost feels like it's a necessity and they'll be back in under 2 minutes anyway so it's not even an achievement to kill skilled vehicle players cause they'll just go back to raping you lmao

[@fishincheap1102]

@@GuitarHeroHardyMaste well that’s the point is that they aren’t encouraged to do so. Leaving the infantry area to support your vehicles or to take flags would be the incentive. But ideally there would still be enough flags to take and an area that is sizable to have good combat. I think a pearl market type thing but on a bigger scale with vehicles on the outskirts, or inside of they want to risk it for the potential for more kills. Sort of like a grand bazaar bf3 thing but with more lanes and verticality in the center like pearl

[@GuitarHeroHardyMaste]

@@fishincheap1102 Grand Bazaar is a good example of balance since it has lanes designed for vehicles as well as routes for infantry to navigate around them, but also because the types of vehicles and amount of vehicles there were actually balanced for the map. Could only have a tank and a IFV per team, and there's few spots for vehicle camping, but vehicles have very strong lanes where controlling them can help the rest of the team push and cap the main flag of the bazaar and open up flanking routes. That kind of stuff is sorely missing in later games and especially BF4 dlc content. I think you would need to tweak and balance vehicle spawn behaviours per map if you were to balance them properly over having blanket timers that work irrespective of how successful the person/squad managing the vehicle is for the types of modern BF maps we're working with.

[@GuitarHeroHardyMaste]

@@fishincheap1102 and when we're talking areas to clarify I was thinking specifically of the later style of design where you just have bunkers or similar styles of structures or buildings to just hide from vehicles in and to fight over. Not the style that Grand Bazaar does where it works by controlling lanes and area denial, rather than DICE just throwing in designated "infantry rooms" and leaving the outside for vehicles, which is what has been happening in most modern maps. And I don't like that type of map design because it limits the gamemodes that function at all in an enjoyable way (RIP Rush), and makes the vehicles reduced to just turrets that farm the losing teams.

[@ChickenFingers42]

Seriously. I got the game on the Summer Sale, it has amazing moments, but on most maps the vehicles are just annoying. I only got 2 launchers unlocked and they're both pretty much useless. It really ruins the fun.

[@12Ger13]

Funny how talking about the "vehicle balancing" when casually wiping out the enemy team on multiple types of vehicles. The vehicle balancing is not a concern to me at least, because in the end it depends on the team players you are part of. I have beaten really good enemy vehicle players with a lot of perseverance a lot of planning, deaths and C4 approaches silently on my part), camping vehicles as much as I can, etc (without me been a good player, tend to die a lot). The proposal of been able to change sides to help the other team is great, but in the end, is up to you. I have done that multiple times because I want to battle, to achieve something. My latest experience was on BF1, I was on the winning side at Fort de Vaux (Conquest), changed to the other side because I was barely able to do something on the winning one and because on the winning one there was an alleged hacker (Ohh boy, that dude cheated and hacked like nuts, no wonder we were "winning").

[@lewishuggett9281]

I don't think vehicles are overpowered at all, the main problem is a server host will Ban infantry weapons like lock-on launchers which especially for infantry is the only thing they can do to properly combat a vehicle. because not every player has had enough experience to hit be able to hit crazy shots with RPG's and even then it's not easy.

[@giannis7707]

Not to mention that it takes 3 fucking rpg rockets to take this shit down

[@andyizarraras2956]

People say there's ways to counter tanks and the rest of the vehicles yeh obviously but the problem is another one comes/spawns almost instantly so it's almost worthless unless you want extra points .. that's my point of view

[@jorthebjoestar]

I loved vehicles in BF4. But vehicles were worse in Bf1 and V because the spawn rate for those games were so low so I could never use a vehicle to take out another vehicle and also in 1 and V I find it harder to fight the vehicles as infantry