The Truth About Delay Pedal Placement

Today, I'm demonstrating EVERY way you can use a delay pedal in your guitar rig, so you can rest assured knowing that you're getting the most out of your delay pedals!
Which delay pedal placement sounded the best to you? Which placement sounded the worst? Tell us in the comments below!
Table of Contents
00:00 Introduction
01:00 Our Objective
01:38 Key Terms
04:07 What Gear are We Using?
05:24 Analog Into a Clean Amp
07:35 Analog Delay with Distortion Pedals
08:50 Analog Delay in an FX Loop (YIKES)
11:06 Delay into a Dirty Amp (Not Great!)
12:46 Digital Delay in an FX Loop (CLEAN)
15:02 Digital Delay in an FX Loop (DIRTY)
16:52 Recap
18:57 Thanks for Watching!
Gear Used in This Video:
BOSS DD-500: bit.ly/351MlEf
BOSS DM-2: bit.ly/3HjdBLG
Soldano SLO-100: bit.ly/34TDZP6
Marshall The Guv'nor: reverb.com/p/marshall-guvnor
⬇BUY VERTEX PEDALS⬇
bit.ly/3kkZPOT
⬇ONE-ON-ONE TONE CONSULTING⬇
bit.ly/2WhiliW
⬇PODCAST⬇
//apple// apple.co/36dSQzK
//spotify// spoti.fi/2WGLku8
⬇DIY BUFFER DIAGRAMS & TEMPLATES⬇
bit.ly/3gu02hU
⬇RECOMMENDED MATERIALS⬇
//buffers// bit.ly/3kpcFf0
//pedalboards// bit.ly/3B9DVFk
//power supply// bit.ly/3B9aD9D
//cables// bit.ly/3jktF7b
//cable & pedal management// bit.ly/3mCJxUe
//pedalboard tools// bit.ly/3B7AEGq
CREDITS:
Host/Co-Production: Mason Marangella
Video: Nico Sotomayor
Video Editing: Victor San Pedro
Co-Production/Design: Mason Mejia
Audio Engineering: Hunter Harrison
LOCATION:
Oakland, CA
#delaypedal #guitarpedals #rigdoctor

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Which delay pedal placement sounded the best to you? Which placement sounded the worst? Tell us in the comments below! Table of Contents 00:00 Introduction 01:00 Our Objective 01:38 Key Terms 04:07 What Gear are We Using? 05:24 Analog Into a Clean Amp 07:35 Analog Delay with Distortion Pedals 08:50 Analog Delay in an FX Loop (YIKES) 11:06 Delay into a Dirty Amp (Not Great!) 12:46 Digital Delay in an FX Loop (CLEAN) 15:02 Digital Delay in an FX Loop (DIRTY) 16:52 Recap 18:57 Thanks for Watching!

[@sgtcaco]

Jack black and Dave Navarro had a baby.

[@Chasetenny]

Lmao

[@MrBlues777]

😂😂😂

[@MikeHenrick1]

lol With the voice of Cartman singing kiss from a rose. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZinqKB3f9t_Zs0si=QI9EhaH1syleEh8F

[@Newwaver2007]

I don’t know, wouldn’t that make it a Gayby?

[@simonspeaker]

​@@MikeHenrick1 hahaha yeah its thrue 😂

[@sequoia78]

I really respect Mason and all of his expertise and wisdom, and I’m an effect noob, so I also appreciate the need for clear and articulate explanations. However, I’m also critically aware of the ever shortening length of viewer attention spans, including my own. As a parent, student, and full-time music industry employee, my time is always being split at least three ways. As such, I’m looking for content that is concise, well organized, and to the point. I take notes on Mason’s videos, but I usually skip 80% of the content and just write the major points, because pedal experts are becoming way too verbose on KZbin these days, this channel included. Thanks for making videos with such a tremendous wealth of digestible wisdom, and thanks for organizing and bulleting your videos for those of us that can’t be fucked to listen to Mason talk for 30 minutes about where to place delay. (EDIT: Less talk, more rock!)

[@Danthehorse]

Brandon bro, lol, that was one verbose way of saying 'I wish the videos were shorter as I have little time" 😆.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

haha thanks for watching Brandon, glad you dig the videos!

[@Suicaedere666]

Incredibly well done and thought out videos. Thank you Mason and Co.

[@marvinthemartian6788]

This was very informative. Great stuff!

[@dispersemedia]

Listen to Porcupine Tree - Incident. The sound of delay in front of a distorted amp is used throughout that album. That sound is also popular in Stoner Metal and Psychedelic rock. One tip is to keep the level of the trails down to prevent too much harshness of the sound. A dark sounding delay like the DM-2 is also more forgiving in this setup. Another setup I also like is to put the delay in between two drive pedals. For example, Tubescreamer -> DM-2 -> Rat. That way only the Rat is saturating the DM-2.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching, well have to check out that recording!

[@dispersemedia]

@@VertexEffectsInc Their singer/guitarist (Steven Wilson) also demonstrated that sound in his Rig Rundown video.

[@massimos6863]

Great video Mason Beautiful playing !! really enjoyed this video and great information. Cheers

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@michael_caz_nyc]

Love my DD500 = an entire toolbox of useful delay sounds. Great stuff Mason - always sharing useful & relevant knowledge.

[@BuddyBlues]

Unrelated to the subject of the video: I'm REALLY loving the Vertex video quality and lighting these days! Rig Dr bouta hit GQ Related to subject: never thought of delay and fx loops that way. Awesome insight

[@VertexEffectsInc]

ha, thanks Buddy!!!

[@empathysgone96]

Great video as always Mason! Thank you 🙏

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@PhishBanjo]

Thanks for the video, Mason! You always bring new insight into the way I think about the ways amps and pedals interact with one another.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

My pleasure!

[@jessejive117]

I love this guys personality and style of speaking. The scenery looks beautiful too!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thank you!

[@zoomzoom3950]

Good, informative and thorough demo. Well done!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@zenwarfare70]

Great video. Also, great production. Lightning and sound is top notch !

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏👍

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

I use delays and reverbs in front of a fully distorted Boogie Mark III. Its GLORIOUS 🤯

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Cool!

[@PhishBanjo]

Great video! This video provides the clearest explanation I've heard of the benefits of using a Reverb before a delay.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

Fantastic content, thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@aleksaky]

what a great video, I don't think I'll be watching anything else about delay pedals for a while - the information you've presented here pretty much nourished all the hunger I've had for knowledge about gear (I guess it's time to focus on playing guitar a bit better ) thank you!

[@kevinmusso2397]

Excellent video!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you very much!

[@AntonovichHicksenbrau]

Superb. Thanks Doc.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you liked it!

[@mattengler4676]

Mike Soldano’s loop is a unicorn. Not only is it line level but it’s placed before the tone stack. The majority of loops in amps built in the last 20 years are either selectable line/instrument or just instrument level. Even Mike caved in.

[@TheStudioRats]

Awesome informative video! Loving that Emaj9 Mason.

[@emanuelschmidt3477]

Hi there, not trying to sound like a smart ass here, just trying to help. The chord you are calling Emaj9 is actually E add2. Chord nomenclature requires (in most cases) that notes below an extension are included, so an Emaj9 would contain the notes E, G#, B, D#, and F#. The 9 also means the note is an octave higher than the 2. The voicing Mason plays has the F# right next to the third (the G#), so it's called add2. Cheers.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I don't know what the chord is called...I just like how it sounds - it's the only E major chord used by the LA Session dudes, so I copied it.

[@umatgeratonleik2584]

I have to say that a delay into a overdriven amp is my favourite solo guitar sound. Not least because Mike McCready does it all the time, and it's all over some European rock bands' records (and I'm not talking about shoegaze), but It also sounds beautiful when you do it. When you play to it by keeping to certain tones and really pouring some feel into the notes, perhaps together with some controlled feedback, you get this glorious, wash of heightened emotion.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It can be a sound with good precedence, as I said in the video, EVH did this in the early days and got good tones, but was limited to using short delays, not a lot of mix or repeats because the delay can get a little out of hand or less musical depending on the amount of gain and desired effect.

[@miguelbarbedo6419]

Thank you for your hard work. First video I watched from you was a short video on how to place a noise gate... and I thought "WTF?". I had to watch it several times to get it. Then, slowly, it is starting to make sense. Man, this means a lot. Thanks heaps.

[@tomt55]

Excellent video and highly informative. I was also unaware about the line level signal in the effects loop. I have an Engl Fireball that does have a pot to adjust this but a few other amps I have do not have this feature. I watched the reverb placement video but have completely forgotten it. Is what you demonstrated in this video the same idea for reverb pedals?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching Tom. Yes, reverb will great into the front of a clean amp. If your amp is distorted, putting in the loop will result in a cleaner reverb. Hope this helps

[@Andyanddiana467]

East Bay Ray of the Dead Kennedys would run analog and tape delays into dirty marshalls - he liked the way the delays would clean up as they repeat. It's not a bad sound for some of that grungy punky stuff. I run a DM3 into a slightly driven amp and it's kinda cool.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

As I said here, EVH did that as well but had short repeats and not a lot of mix. It can be used as an effect but not generally what most gravitate to.

[@davidjameschamberlain]

I appreciate the fact that you don't push the everything in the effects loop mentality. I'm an analog delay guy, and an edge of breakup kinda dude. For me, I like my mix lower, everything in front of the amps. I get some amp character on the first repeats, then it sits back and chills.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

There's more than one way to do it for sure...if you want that old school Echoplex in front of amp thing...you only got one way to do it :)

[@davidjameschamberlain]

@@VertexEffectsInc for sure

[@GlennJimenez]

I don’t always agree with Mason, but that little bit at the start of the video has some great sounds. Gotta give it to him! 😊

[@JHamzig]

Thank you for the video (and all the other videos)! However, I feel like there wasn’t a resolution to the analog delay into a dirty amp (or via effects loop of a dirty amp) dilemma. I have a MXR Carbon Copy. I tried the effects loop option, and the signal was very weak, and it clipped (as you pointed out). Yet, when I placed it in front of the amp (at the end of the chain), the signal became strong. I read another comment, where someone said the “trick” was to turn down the mix. What would you recommend? Thanks!

[@countzero1972]

great explanation

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mohanarjit4131]

listened the intro in the morning felt me like i'm on a mountain peak having peace

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Sweet!

[@GraphiteandCigars]

So the reality of this is, it is not just about where to place the delay in the signal path but the type of delay is critical in the equation also. Great stuff Mason, Thank you!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@SergeiVlassov]

and what is the context! What is the style! Delay before distortion creates dirty intervals, and if you play some fusion with chromatic notes, it can create complete chaos. But for some slower melodic lines it may work great, adding spices.

[@jesterraj]

Does the volume drop a bit as well with the delay in the fx loop??

[@Jaxisagod5]

Mason, thanks for the cool video. Where did you get that wood guitar rack on the wall?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I made it with Hercules wall mounted guitar hangers and a piece of walnut 6” x 1” x 8’

[@thedddemon]

Well done for mentioning the caveat of using restricted echo in front of the amp. Not many people are aware of that. Cheers

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@danieldesjardins6615]

Talking about compensation, if the signal is too hot for your vintage delay in the effect loop, you can possibly just use an inexpensive volume attenuator box (which is just a small box with an input and output and a pot in between) in series just before the delay to attenuate the signal going into the delay. Never tried it but I will to check the results!

[@humbertolobato6192]

Hello Mason! Nice information! I have one question, I have the Boss RT20 which I like very much. Is it good to put it in the fx loop? Or is it designed to be in front of the amp? Regards!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

As the video says, no standards on fx loops, literally no two are the same. My instinct is that it could be problematic in a loop that doesn't have a instrument level compensation.

[@R0BL68]

Man I’m totally diggin these comprehensive effects videos ! Maybe one on compressors some day 🤞🏼

[@scottperrin9655]

Agreed! Out of all of my pedals, my simple MXR Comp is the one I'm just not getting what I'm looking for out of it, as ridiculous as that sounds.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

👍👍👍

[@peterschaefer1665]

Hey there! Excellent job. Hey, what is it that you like about the DD-500 as opposed to the Timeline delay?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It actually sounds closer to the delays it emulates, and you can have different delays on A/B sides and mix them differently, set the times differently, or hard pan them if you have it wired in stereo but want a true mono sound.

[@danielfrabotta5501]

Wow, I never thought about how effects loops were set up in terms of levels before. That's really helpful to know. I'm wondering if you could mitigate that clipping on the vintage delay by placing a volume pedal in front of it in the loop and calibrating to taste as a workaround. Just a thought. Anyway, great video as always and keep rocking.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jacobattias8401]

Your idea of how to get desired results using workarounds is what it's all about...when making music in fruity loops/pro tools using workarounds to achieve a desired effect is the name of the game...(using a delay instead of using another instrument or hitting another note as a general example....etc etc...) in my opinion of course...which is less than worthless

[@gkol69]

You can put a delay in front of a distorted amp, especially an analog one or an analog simulation on a digital one. It's how you set it up. You need to lower the delay level, about 9 o' clock, and lower the repeat/rate/feedback control to 1-3 repeats, so it stays in the background while you play. It was done in all the classic records with great results because there weren't fx loops back then. Another modern option is the dynamic or ducking delay that stays (almost) off while you play and gets up in volume when you stop. And in front of a distorted amp is more dynamic and in every repeat it gets progressively cleaner. You use the same settings as when used in the loop and it sounds bad.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Sure...we also talk about how some genres and players have utilized this as a sound or style. You're somewhat pigeonholed to the amount of mix and repeats you use if you want to have some semblance of fidelity and definition, but there are popular uses like this for sure.

[@svalentine1992]

On the subject of the effects loop, any experience with the Helix LT in an amp's FX loop for delay and reverb? Thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Would depend on the loop and how well the LT could accept a potential +4 output level.

[@patrickcarroll1754]

Luscious, Mason. Luscious. Thank you.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thanks!

[@Swimant]

Thanx! This waws really nice! The only thing is I would try and keep the video to 15 min. I love this format! Great explanations and demystification!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!!!

[@scottpickett9779]

DM 2 into the Guv'nor Is my style and sounded the best to me. Thanks Doc.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

However you think it best, however it can be limiting if you want to do longer delay times.

[@Burnt_Gerbil]

Call me crazy, but I use a Carbon Copy into a dirty amp. I like the sound. The trick is to turn down the mix control.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thats a great delay!! Yes, low mix! If not it can get really busy haha!

I do the same thing as all my amps are single channels and most of them have no fx loop. Also the fx loop in those amps of mine that have them are basically useless as part of my distortion comes from the power amp session.

[@benjaminwoodrowmusic6070]

That's what Eddie did

[@ivanrodriguez8644]

More common than you could think, tape echos used to be placed infront the amp even with heat or saturation, analog delay is not the same thing but could work. Remember until the invention of loop fx every effect was placed infront the amp and those sounds are something we are still trying to emulate, we shall stop thinking as audio egineers, they're not musicians, and just make cool noise, the only limit you should have in mind is your audience they don't know what's "the correct order of effects" but if it sounds good, sounds good, that's all

[@chilidogcowboy]

…it cleans up as it echos and becomes more ‘air-ey’…I made a bunch of recordings with my dd-5 into a 5150 and Boogie Tremoverb (not in the loops) 20 years ago that still rank among my coolest sounds ever.

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Johnny Marr ran his DD-3 first in his chain (see TPS interview). And how one plays through those effects has as much “Truth” in it as common vanilla ordering convention does (as he clearly demos in that same TPS interview). Marr’s order sounds massive, and well, exactly what his songs require. Really questioning normative right and wrong on effects ordering I’ve taken for granted. Alternative pedal orderings aren’t happy accidents in spite of the truth. They often are “the truth.” Cheers all, D

[@dr.gregoryweisswassernd7251]

Thanks for the great video Doc. Very timely. I am working for the first time in 30 years of playing with trying to use an effects loop. I got a Bluguitar Amp 1 which has great drive channels. It also has an effects loop with line or instrument level switch and serial/ parallel switch. I. Trying to use it with a Headrush MX5 as a small portable rig. Tried 4 cable, line and instrument level and also just putting Mx5 in loop in serial and parallel. I still haven’t decided which I like more. I think the line level with parallel sounds great for wet effects because I still get the direct analog signal to the speaker and can blend in wet effects with volume pedal. But in 4 cable I can use Headrush effects before the amps gain as well as punch in and our the amp 1 preamp allowing me to use the modeled heads in the Mx5 and cut out the amp 1 preamp sounds. So many options. I kind of have options paralysis. Do you think the Mx5 should get line or instrument level in the effects loop? What do you think about using parallel effects loop and or 4 cable method? Appreciate any feedback. You are the best. 🙏

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I'm not sure what the MX5 accepts level wise, but if you're not finding that it clips it probably doesn't matter. If you're concerned that it might clip, setting it to instrument level is ideal. The parallel thing is cool, but really works best if your wet effects are all 100% wet and then you blend them in more like you would on a mix bus in a studio after the mic'd amp. Generally most FX Loop amps are all serial as most wet effects already have the dry signal in them or aren't capable of going 100% wet/kill dry in some cases.

[@dr.gregoryweisswassernd7251]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Doc. That is very helpful. You rock brother.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@dr.gregoryweisswassernd7251 Thanks for watching!

[@Gibson1976uk]

I have just bought a DD-500 off a guy in minty condition! no box, instructions etc. just the unit! for 180 pounds!! I have been using a DD-200 (love that pedal) for awhile and love it! I was keen to have more depth!! I like a straight forward delay but also love to experiment!! so I will have the DD-500 soon! its in the post :)!! you know one thing that attracted me to the DD-500! hearing people saying it has good old digital delay pedals in the settings!! I got my brother an old DD-2 years ago after his DD-3 died!!! DD-2's are very nice!! I should have kept it for myself!!! but I know he was without a delay and it needed sorting out :)

[@CptFnMarvelous]

Always enjoy your videos. You pretty much built my signal chain. Your touched on something t in this video that I've been unable to find information about. That is instrument level versus line level signal in an effects loop. I only use compact size pedals because I like variety at my feet rather than my fingers when it comes to varying sound with pedals. I cannot for the life of me figure out whether my amps are producing instrument level signal after the preamp or line level signal in the effects loop. Is it the case that most digital stock boxes are prepared to deal with hotter signals?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

There are no standards so you need to listen to hear if you're getting clipping.

[@godbyone]

What’s your opinion on sommer cable ??? The spec seem great. But who knows what really matters in use

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Good cables.

[@jojo9535]

This may be a little off topic but good to know for others planning to do the same. I'm assembling a Temple Board Duo 24 and plan on using the Temple Audio Quick Release plates. I chose an MXR 238 as my power supply. Besides a Dunlop CM95 wah, all my effects pedals (6) are Boss pedals. Instead of removing the rubber from the bottom of the pedals to attach the Quick Release plates I'm having a local fabricator make bottom plates out of aluminum to replace the originals. I chose aluminum over polycarbonate because it is cheaper to make. Do you foresee any noise or other problems I may have? (I've seen some plates made using PLA polylactic acid, used in 3D printing but PLA isn't very impact resistant). Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If the supply is Switch Mode and you're using the aluminum plates I don't think there's an issue, if there is you can mess around with alligator clips to see about where you might be needing to ground, but I think the pedalboard is all powder coated so you're probably not actually touching metal to metal.

[@JoeFic9997]

I’m a fan of analog delays and yes I out them in the loop. It does require some adjustments but then again what doesn’t?

[@michael_caz_nyc]

Boss DD-500 is an incredible unit. An entire tool-box full of delays. I love mine. It does so much, and you can customize until Infinity . . . you just need to spend time Learning its capabilities. I do rock, r&b, pop & reggae and I get some sick Dub-style repeats during a live performance. Boss knows Delay's.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes!!!

[@larswinstrom9943]

Hi, Thanks for great info! Tc Electronics Nova Delay, do U know if this unit suits best for FX loop or in front of the amp or boyh settings are good? Thanks

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Depends how your amp is set. If it is on the more gainy side then in the loop would be the best. If its clean you could run it into the front of the amp!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@Lars Winström NOVA DELAY is generally good, depends on the loop more than the pedal.

[@AchillesWrath1]

Which delay and reverb pedals work best in front of a dirty channel amp without having to use a clean setting, another distortion pedal and then a delay pedal?

[@jamieskillman6972]

Can a volume pedal in position 1in the effects loop to help or stop the clipping.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It could attenuate the input hitting the pedals, yes, but then you’ve dropped the volume of the entire rig, because that volume pedal is now like a master volume on the amp, so you need some way then to make up the volume on the output to bring it back to line level. Ideally some effects loop buffer device like that Kleinulator would be best as it has a send and return level and makes your passive fx loop into a buffered one.

[@lincolndaugherty]

The main draw for me to analog delay is how great it sounds into an overdriven amp. I play a mythos Oracle into a victory kraken. Sounds amazing.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice, that can be a usage as stated here, ala EVH.

[@Izzy1782]

I use my Line 6 MM4 into the effects loop of my Peavey Windsor, and it's the best spot for that amp

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Cool!

[@henriqueantunes845]

I'm still struggling trying to use some delay/reverb with my dual channel AD30. I'll never be able to switch channels and keep the "ideal wetness". That explains a lot. Thank you!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@aaron9142]

What if one uses a Walrus Audio ARP-87 and a Way Huge Supa Puss? Seems like the ARP should go in the loop while the Puss goes in the front. Would you agree? (Amp is an EVH 5150 III EL34 50w head)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Depends on if it can accept your effects loop level without clipping and what you wanna do with the pedals sound wise.

[@Mr.Steve-O]

Does the clipping happen with other modulation pedals as well? thx for the information

[@LemonMeIon]

Yes modulation pedals can increase amp saturation, especially if they have a buffer. Not necessarily a bad thing. I personally run overdrive into chorus into delay and reverb into an amp at the edge of breakup because I like the sound of the distorted trails.

[@cdawg2396]

Will the smaller pedalboard risers like the TC1 and the TP1 fit/work with the TE pedalboard?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They can, but you'd have to drill.

[@waynegram8907]

Which slapback delays did SRV use? because you can hear it on the david bowie srv album. I know that the Ibanez Delay Champ CD10 is suppose to have a very glassy slapback delay by the slapback delay reflections are very shinny and glassy like playing in a mic'ed bathroom getting those glassy reflections. Which slapback delays would your recommend that have glassy reflection slapback delays?

[@kalebaldwin5398]

That slapback was probably added afterwords. It was most likely a digital unit (such as a Lexicon PCM41), seeing as it was 1982/83 and digital was in.

[@InstruMentalCase]

Also, if you have a dirty single channel amp with no FX loop (or you have a loop but it’s useless at high volume because of poweramp distortion), you can get an adjustable line out signal from the amp’s speaker out using something like the $50 Bray LO-1 (EVH used an early Palmer speaker sim I think). Just set the Bray’s signal for line or instrument level effects, and feed the wet signal to a dedicated second cab with an inexpensive high headroom poweramp (even a dirt-cheap Crate Powerblock might do the trick).

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching Dave!

[@tweakerofknobs]

Nice video. I have a jazz chorus amp which has stereo effects loop although it is completely clean. Should I be using it or just use the stereo input?

[@mickvanderh.2948]

depends on how much gain you're using. But I guess it's not that much so use the front input

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If the amp is totally clean, you can run everything into the front of it!

[@tweakerofknobs]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks!

[@BobEstremera]

Very pretty playing. Nothing mediocre about that.

[@brandonthompson8413]

I've been using the a carbon copy deluxe in the loop of my Marshall DSL for a while and never had a clipping issue.

[@Chris-dt8nf]

can you do a video on understanding switchers/midi controllers and how one would put pedals in the signal chain, Thanks Mason

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Our signal chain video pretty much spells it out. We have a few different versions for in front of the amp vs. effects loop vs. wet/dry, etc.

[@acslater826]

I liked the Wii-esque sound every time a checkmark appeared.

[@jesseshookman8502]

What about Eric Johnson? He uses an Echoplex in front of Tube Driver in front of a cranked Marshall with ~500-600ms repeats, and it's a pretty iconic delay sound.

[@godbyone]

I be gone crazy in his system but o think echoplex character and tone have a lot to do with it

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching Jesse! Yeah, thats has a very unique sounds. Whatever sounds right to you is the best way!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

His Marshall's aren't that dirty...a little broken up, but more of the distortion comes from the pedals. 100W Marshalls don't have that much distortion, nowhere near what the SLO in the video has.

[@kameel68]

What are the thoughts of you about putting an MXR M300 reverb and a Boss DD3 in the fx loop?

[@daughtersofdivorce6803]

If it sounds better to your ears, do it!

[@shaunmartin6569]

Great video. Loads of info and useful results. Could you call it 'here's how to use...' rather than the click baity 'you're doing this wrong...'. Click bait is so annoying and you're better than that. Thumbs up

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@artysanmobile]

That’s solid advice, Shaun. Your suggestion talks ‘up’ to the creatives interested in this channel.

[@joek81981]

My shiz doesn't have a fx loop, but what happens if you plug your guitar directly into the return? Is the signal just super vanilla, like plugging into a PA?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You get the power amp section only.

[@DouglasCarrollMusic]

I have 18+ pedals on a massive studio (mostly, but totally gigable) board. I’m using a clean Roland JC40 and I run all my time and mod through the loop. I have a Canyon, a Flint, and an RV6. Anything I should try? Can you elaborate on the loop output on a JC40 if you’re familiar?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

For a clean amp there isn't much value since you're not getting any distortion from the preamp.

[@DouglasCarrollMusic]

@@VertexEffectsInc so, better to just run all the pedals direct through the front of the amp?!? What if I wanted to add a second amp, for a dual Mono kind of setup. All gain with no wet, to one amp, and all gain plus all wet to a second. Is that weird?

[@gregrodrigueziii8075]

Delay (short) infront of any dirty pedal or amp = Vintage Rock aka 60's to early 80's Rock guitar tone. Delay (long) after any dirty pedal or amp (preamp) = Modern sound late 80's moving forward

[@VertexEffectsInc]

👍👍👍

[@Aaron-zh4kj]

Thank you. All these boomers in the comments are going on about “If Hendrix didn’t have an effects loop, I don’t need one!” Like many other guitarists, if he lived to have the chance to use one, he probably would’ve given it a try and used it. The knowledge of what either sound like just helps us decide what we want to do.

[@Randomveteran]

I'm currently running a You Dirty Rat --> MXR Echoplex --> clean amp. The delay seems to have clipping repeats whenever that Rat pedal is on. I got a little lost in the video but what can I do to stop the clipping on the repeats? It sounds really harsh and not good.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can clean up the saturation on the pedal itself, you shouldn't get issues with distortion unless the Dirt is after the delay.

[@Randomveteran]

@@VertexEffectsInc So it turns out that my initial assessment was wrong. The pedal was not clipping repeats. Those harsh overtones were from having the input gain up too high. It was only at 4 but that was enough to cause some harsh overtones on the repeats. Thanks again.

[@zoomzoom3950]

I have a few tube combos without a loop, my effects in front of the amps work well. That said, I prefer to use my effects in 4CM with my Engl half stack (E530 Tube preamp + E8500/100 dual 100 tube power amp + 2 x E212 Pro VH cabs) For effects, I'm using a Boss GT-1000, and a Source Audio UltraWave.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@victorpate24]

Would consider discussing effect placement with Kemper one day? Also what's your opinion (and use) for Eventide's H-9 Max?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ordering effects inside the Kemper? Would be pretty much the same as it would with pedals. Check out our signal path video. I like the H9 as a multieffect.

[@aaron9142]

What about an EVH 5150 III EL34 50w head? Should I be using my DM-2W in front rather than the loop?

[@LemonMeIon]

Whatever sounds best to you. Trails will distort more running in front and it will sound cleaner in the fx loop

[@Blaydrnnnr]

Hate to harp on this but any idea when the AC modules are gonna show up at Sweetwater? You said they shipped like 2 weeks ago. Still waiting on this to finish my board.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They should be there...not sure what the delay is. They left our warehouse.

[@Blaydrnnnr]

@@VertexEffectsInc Cancelled my order, made it myself. Sweetwater never even answered my email question on possible ship date. I suggest you find a better vendor.

[@oldtimer99]

if using two delays, one analog and one digital, which one should go first in your opinion?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Some guys mix and match, short analog delay in front of the amp and longer digital delay in the loop.

[@oldtimer99]

@@VertexEffectsInc If we put you Boost in FX loop as another loop to others pedals, does it matter what you have in the Boost loop? Does the Boost provide a good buffer to address negative impacts?

[@waynegram8907]

What type of meter would you use to measure various amplifiers effects loops SEND level? dBA or dBm? I'm not sure if the new digital effects have some type of front end Limiter circuit on the input jack so even if you drive it hitting it at Line Level signals it will PAD it down to instrument level signals. Vertex should make a pedal that makes any amplifiers effects loop to be a perfect instrument level and makeup compensation gain for the send and return and makes various impedances of the send and return so you can use any analog guitar pedals.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I would just use AC voltmeter. If you want to measure on one of the decibel scales, you can use a conversion table or one that measures in dBv directly. I've though about that but I think it would be a hard sell as more people don't use or have amps with effects loops.

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc A lot of people do use delays and EQ pedals in effects loops. I would think most modern amplifiers have effects loops

[@denmar355]

Lots of people use too much delay and that complicates the problems. Backing off on the mix solves a lot. Unless you’re doing the clean ethereal thing.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

For slap it can be mitigated but also depends on the amount of delay and the how dirty the amp is. Not a cure all to give you the full capabilities of your time-based effects.

[@kodykindhart5644]

Spot on Unless that delay is an important upfront integral part backing off mix is great advice Without in ear monitoring certain types of delay sounds have been hard for the entire band to play too sometimes in that instance I say turn things up 🤘🤘🤘

[@StevenAMckayAuthor]

Tried moving my cheapo (but nice!) Donner Yellow Fall from the FX Loop into the front of the amp and it sounds horrific lol

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Probably the amp more than the pedal.

[@ReddyEddy]

What about running a Digital Delay (Boss DD7) in front of a clean amp and after overdrive pedal and modulation pedals?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If it's into a clean amp, why not?

[@sergiogvv]

@@VertexEffectsInc So basically the DD-7works pretty much the same as the DM-2, even though the DD-7 is called Digital Delay?

[@davidbrown2806]

An eye opener. I was one of those guys that said " what ... on effects loop ? I don't want the amp ! " this video has changed that. Question is ...... does these same principals apply to solid state amps ie Katana .... Black Spirit 200 et al ?

[@BRAG450]

What's a decent priced high gain amp? I'm not looking at katana prices maybe mid range in price 800 - 1200$ I can go higher but would like to keep it at that price. Like what's the equivalent of a deluxe reverb for high gain stuff?

[@stevethebeeline44]

PRS MT15 and 1x12 cab comes to mind. Right price range and loads of gain!!! Victory Kraken with 1x12 cab if you wanted to go higher with the budget. Bluguitar Amp1 Iridium also a great option.

[@petervanvliet6747]

Marshall dsl40c used I picked mine up for 750$CAD great amp for the money

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Maybe a Friedman Small Box?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@From Seed To Shatter - used JCM800's can be around that range.

[@BRAG450]

I never know where to write these replies so the whole chain can see it. Anyways, thank you guys for the suggestions. That should give me a few ideas where to start when I look around locally.

[@jimboissuperfun]

Personally I love the way that cave in uses delay and their distortion. They put the overdrive Mostly a boss OS-2 last in the chain so all their effects go through the distortion it’s not conventional but it rules!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It’s one way to do it, just not as typical.

[@bach5150]

I use a boss dd 5 in the loop and run a dirty sound with amp distortion.(ACOUSTIC 50 WATT TUBE).. No probs whatsoever.. In fact the delay sounds much more ingrained into the overall sound. No clipping. Way more control over the delay. Classic 80's set up. This way I avoid that annoying slap back from the delay.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It'll always depend on the amp and the levels...no two effects loops are the same. Some will clip a DD5, others won't. It's good to be aware.

[@RobertNolan]

I've always loved flirting with the idea of pedal placement but always fall back to my traditions. Delay>Reverb>Tremolo>Amp.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If you have a clean amp it would be a pretty good way to go about it :)

[@RobertNolan]

@@VertexEffectsInc it's typically all I run these days, Fender amp set clean and loud 😎🤌

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@RobertNolan as God intended!

[@CentaurusRelax314]

I think I’ve been doing it right: DD-200 into a Kemper loop… but what I learned is that I need a Guv’nor. That thing sounded fantastic. And that Strat-what are the particulars of that guitar? What pickups are in it? Overall, the Guv’nor and DD2 into the front was the most compelling tone.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They are super good pedals :)

[@CentaurusRelax314]

@@VertexEffectsInc What about the Strat?!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@CentaurusRelax314 It's a Rory Gallagher Strat with Sonic Rattlesnake Pickups

[@CentaurusRelax314]

@@VertexEffectsInc You had it refinished? Interesting…. Actually, no-this isn’t the Gallagher.

[@johngutierrez591]

Wow, mind reading much? Ha I just started having issues with my TC triple delay. I just re-did my pedal placement and now its boosting my signal like CRAZY when I'm using my OD. Hopefully you explain stuff like that, cause I'm stumped.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

What the cables you're using?

[@johngutierrez591]

@@VertexEffectsInc patch cables are custom made mogami cables with sp500 flat plugs. And my 1 instrument cable that goes from my delay to Amp is a mogami platinum cable. I did just have all these cables made for me within a week ago. But they tested fine. Before there was never a boost issue. But I did have a decimator and polytune in between my delay and OD (walrus Ages). But now it's tuner-wah-boss OD1- Ages- triple delay

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@johngutierrez591 Wonder if you were actually attenuating the signal before because of a bad cable that had some resistance on it from perhaps not removing the thermal conductive plastic and now the lower output impedance of the delay is able to handle it better and sounds louder. Did you remove the conductive plastic from the center conductor on your Mogami cable?

[@johngutierrez591]

@@VertexEffectsInc the plastic was removed. Befire i was using mogami gold cables too. I was also using my Amps overdrive in combination with my Ages OD. I use a fender blues deluxe. Had the gain to about 7 and master at 3 to where it just started getting loud. Guy who made the cables said maybe the extra signal was dampening my delay and now that I just use a clean channel on the amp and only my pedal for OD it's actually getting the proper signal and juice.

[@beworship6168]

what about using the dd500 in front of the iridium? I noticed that the delays lose their strong repeats when a reverb pedal is used with them. any insights would be appreciated

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It would be like running a delay in front of an amp. I prefer it post Iridium.

[@bigbluesigh]

I truly appreciate you taking the time to craft this demo. But, you (or anyone) shouldn't play a passage only to say it sounds good/bad. The delay in the loop of the SLO sounds amazing to my ears. The clip played with it in front has the 1st repeat competing with the fundamental. Over powering for me. One guy's this, is another guy's that i guess. Just my two cents. Thanks again for your time and passion.

[@diomasyo461]

How about OctaveFuzz placement? For the next content

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Watch our signal path video. All is explained.

[@diomasyo461]

@@VertexEffectsInc I've already watch the video, but I still don't understand. Is it after or before the distortion pedal? Example pedal Wampler Fuzztration

[@lefterisden2389]

@@diomasyo461 it's all the same for most fuzz pedals. If it's a vintage circuit, put it first, if it doesn't mind buffers, put it wherever

[@Fishfuzzlove]

I run my Ibanez AD9 either in my effects loop or in front of amp. I don’t get those clipping problems you had when in effects loop. Using a Marshall DSL40 combo. Must be a really good effects loop?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It may just be that it has a lower output level, I suspect it’s passive however and there will be some loss with long cable runs from the send and return.

[@Fishfuzzlove]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the response! I’m gonna rewatch this again tomorrow, it was a lot to take in but very useful info. Keep these videos coming 🤘

[@MAP448]

1 more reason we have knobs & switches available to us on our gear, because in the real world no 2 situations are the same & why/how we can get so many different great & horrible sounds

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Let's hope your amp has these compensations...a lot do not have any way to attenuate the level hitting the effects.

[@wibblegorm]

I liked the distorted delay, lmao

[@dispersemedia]

Because it's actually a common sound you hear in popular music.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It can be a thing, but can be hard to control with higher mixes and longer delay times and repeats.

[@JonnyTravieso]

Why not just put a passive attenuator in front of your delay in the loop?