One of the Most Important Images On Earth

[@catherinesvideos156]

This may be the most John video Hank has ever made. I love it. We connect, we go on, we live inside each other's stories, and the "we" is so much bigger than we usually acknowledge.

[@Rawb-kt7fe]

...yes

[@Preserbius]

I give the La Pasiega Cave Paintings four and a half stars.

[@tbella5186]

​@@PreserbiusYou know I read this in John's voice!

[@fadil8050]

Definitely belongs to that Johnre of video

[@DavidPlass]

@@fadil8050 Well played

[@VilcxjoVakero]

If we're celebrating this as an interspecial collab the cow should probably get _some_ credit for modeling

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

++

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

Good job, cow.

[@GaiaCarney]

And piggy butt cheek 🐖 ?

[@liuser]

Fitting for a lecture given in Wisconsin. He did talk about cows and their numerous stomachs because humans have domesticated grass so many different times

[@orillian8023]

What I find interesting is we consider ourselves "other" to anything significantly old. For example, if i walked into that cave with a can of spraypaint and added onto that cave art, that wouldn't be continuing the collaboration, that would be vandalism of the highest order. There is graffiti on board walks and hand railings all over, J+M and Tom was here and so much else and we don't look at that with the same reverence as we do the ancient roman graffiti. No one is writing papers on it, or studying it, or anything. Its a nuisance not an insperation

[@untappedinkwell]

We really do love a good collab.

[@737smartin]

This is no colaberation. 😂 If I put a mustache on the Mona Lisa, am I entering a collaboration with DaVinci?

[@MissChaoticKitty]

@@737smartin idk I wanna say yes

[@xarin42]

@@737smartin Did he consent to the collaboration? No. Was it a collaboration anyways? Yes.

[@AUnicorn666]

@@xarin42what was the collaboration?

[@jaydubaic21]

@@737smartinwe got the crappy Steve Martin

[@veggiet2009]

Whenever i learn of ancient things that we "didn't know before" makes me think and weep for the library of Alexandria...

[@LmgWarThunder]

This reminds me of the feeling I got at Costco, but of course much deeper as it goes further back, of seeing myself and others inspecting the fruit in the big stands and remembering that as long as there have been markets, you know thousands of years, there have been people inspecting the fruit before they buy it to make sure that it's good. And there is something so beautiful in that we really are living lives comparable to those who lived thousands of years before us.

[@stolenzephyr]

I feel similarly about conversations about the weather. We have been having the same conversations about the weather for thousands of years, in thousands of languages.

[@Meraxes6]

@@stolenzephyr probably hundreds of thousands of years

[@PrimitiveBeasty]

For me it was doing yardwork with my wife and my infant daughter. You set her on the ground and she just occupies herself with pebbles and sticks and dirt, not crawling around much and keeping tabs on where you are. It's like she programmed for it. And you keep looking over at her every once in a while. And it occurred to me that this is exactly what our ancestors did when they were gathering food or whatever. This setting your child on the ground and keeping track of each other as you work is a shared experience that is older than humans.

[@stolenzephyr]

@@Meraxes6 True!!

[@slicedtoad]

There's something almost profane about having this realization in a Costco. I love it.

[@IguessImight]

This is a special one Hank. "I always thought that we killed them". The use of us alone made me pause to connect with an unfathomable amount of human generations. We really do so much.

[@kingcosworth2643]

That annoyed me that statement, mother nature is far more powerful than humans will ever be. Numbers of humans got extraordinarily low at one point, we just try to survive like any other animal that got a shot at it.

[@agathafry4233]

The paint in Spain stays mainly in the cave.

[@Idefilms]

++++ I cackled 😄

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

I can absolutely hear this in Marni Nixon's voice.

[@BlueManIan]

+

[@fyorarules]

Now, once again, where is the paint? In the caaaaave, in the caaaaaaave.

[@Catstheater]

+ beautiful XD

[@martinmartinpl]

Hank, just wanted to say that it truly warms my heart to see you having longer - albeit still a bit curly - hair. Kinda stupid random thought, but you know, it's really good still having you in this world after all the hell you've been through.

[@dcgamer1027]

Reminds me of the Himalayan Handprints; just a couple of kids making handprints in mud 200,000 years ago just like we do today. As a commenter on the minuteman short said: "I was here" it is truly the one thing our hearts have the desire to say.

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

The unlimited human desire to leave a mark. As long as someone, somewhere, somewhen, sees something we did, that’s enough. They don’t have to know our names. They don’t even have to remember it. It just has to happen, so that if so many people are right and there is some life after death, we can see it happen and think, “I have been seen. I am a fraction of a fraction of this person’s life, but I am part of it. I have not yet died.”

[@swagmundfreud666]

Reminds me of this grafitti that a tourist put on the colosseum a few years back. There is graffiti from nearly every time period since the construction of the Colosseum, and the people taking care of the colosseum treat this graffiti as important and a part of the artistry of the colosseum, but not the new graffiti, even though that is literally the exact same thing as the old graffiti from the Medieval times.

[@earnestlanguage4242]

@@swagmundfreud666this is something I tried to teach as a Latin teacher. Romans were just people, we are just people studying those people. Each of our languages and cultures and ways of being are valuable. And that Romans, if they interacted with us, would feel superior, who are but a colony of their colonies.

[@myladycasagrande863]

​@@swagmundfreud666no, the Medieval graffiti is vintage, waaaayyy better than the modern imitation stuff! [Read in the voice of the most annoying snob you've encountered]

[@emceeboogieboots1608]

​@@swagmundfreud666That's a fair point, but the visitors to the Coliseum now would swamp anything from the past Now only the sneakiest will succeed, so I guess it is a sort of survival of the fittest situation

[@kodaq8865]

Anthropological Archeology student here! While I love the message of this video, I do have some unfortunate news about the dating of this site. Within the past few years the U-series date that was taken for this site has been called into question because the cave is an open system rather than a closed one. This cave system being open contaminates the sample, therefore skewing the dates. (If you would like links to specific articles/papers I can provide some as well) However, that’s not to say that Neanderthals didn’t have art! There are many examples of objects that imply symbolic meaning in the archeological record. We unfortunately have yet to discover indisputable Neanderthal rock art, but who’s to say it isn’t out there waiting to be found.

[@caitlinquinn79]

Ooh I want to learn more about this! Off to Google!

[@Bettinasisrg]

Well as a student then you also know archeology, anthropology is very subjective!

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

This is a great update, ty!

[@themysteryofbluebirdboulevard]

​@@Bettinasisrg except when it isn't. That's a postmodern fallacy

[@TheQwuilleran]

It's not the only cave in the region with art that has been dated to before humans are expected to have arrived in the region. One of the caves in particular has good evidence suggesting it had been sealed off from direct sunlight until recently due to a flood or landslide (using luminescence dating). As a scientist, I'm sure you're aware of the industry practice not to report findings unless you're certain. The rub here is that we must rely on physical evidence (presence of fire pit styles or clothing technologies attributed to humans, etc), and qf that might mean that humans had entered the region centuries or even millennial before current estimates.

[@Naiadryade]

I love building my spirituality directly out of the sense of wonder I get from scientific understanding of the world. This video resonates super strongly.

[@Idefilms]

+++

[@daemoneko]

Wow, your comment resonated deeply with me The way you described is very similar to how my own spirituality works, but I never verbalized it as well as you did, and you captured its essense so perfectly hahaha!! A sense of wonder and a curiosity to understand the world around me is what makes me feel "alive" and "human" somehow

[@caterini20]

WOW... I just copied your comment to cite it in an essay I am using! I am a college student writing a final paper about my teaching philosophy and i have been having writers block all week. It feels so cheesy to explain how much I love learning, but truly I am obsessed with education!! Your comment so beautifully articulates my feelings about how I feel the most spiritual when I am actively learning

[@emilyleaf9857]

+

[@marsZpants]

+

[@mateoconk]

I welled up with tears when you said "I mourn for it..." What a beautiful disorganization attempting to communicate meaning that can linger; hybrid coexistence sheltered in Plato's cave reaches forward in the dancing shadows to trace the smallest letters that define us

[@Inkinhart]

I think it must have been - at least sometimes - a beautiful, loving world. Denny (the first generation Neanderthal/Denisovan hybrid) was an eleven year old girl, and she lived in a community that must have loved her, because she made it to eleven in a world of painfully high infant mortality. There's evidence of further interbreeding events further back in her genome, too - she wasn't a one-off. All through her family line were Denisovans and Neanderthals coming together. All three 'modern' species - us, Neanderthals, Denisovans - had kids together when we met each other, and those kids often grew up and had kids of their own. (I'm pretty sure at least one person probably tried with H. floresiensis or H. naledi, just because people are people, but we don't have evidence of that.) Also - it's so important to acknowledge that Neanderthals had rich material cultures. They had symbolism, complex mortuary behaviour, art. That runs deep in the genus. (Also eat it, Paul Pettitt.)

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

What did Paul Pettitt do?

[@dorongrossman-naples9207]

We don't know for sure if any Neanderthals and Denisovans were coming together, but if they bred together often, it probably happened at least occasionally.

[@erinmac4750]

Well said. 💚🌍

[@SwimingPolarbear]

@@dorongrossman-naples9207 we do, as Hank specifically mention in the video that we have the reamains of a child with half Denisovan half Neanderthal DNA, i.e one of her parents were Denisovan and the other was Neanderthal. How many times it has happened over the years is yet to be found

[@totalweirdo8538]

Commenting for Paul Pettitt info

[@rufescens]

Hank, my favorite hypothesis regarding the disappearance of the Neanderthals (which I think I heard Svante Pääbo express) is that their population density was never nearly as high as ours, and that we simply absorbed them as we spread. No violence required.

[@sarahnelson8836]

Unlikely but possible, it seems more likely that their population density was less, we were taking up more of the resources that they historically used in hard times etc and a series of unfortunate events led to sufficient hard times for an extended period (kinda like when all of humanity holed up in that one cave system and ate a ton of shellfish for a decade but if the cave collapsed and everyone ended up having a shellfish allergy) Still no violence required. But I don’t think we absorbed them because the amount of Neanderthal DNA in our genome would be greater than it is.

[@rufescens]

@ you’ve got a point, but I assume that Svante Paabo thought about that when he came up with that hypothesis. Also, the greater the difference in population size, the greater the chance that any genetic material from them would have been culled from our genome through fixation. (Especially in the case of selection against their genes-for which there is evidence.)

[@louismyers8845]

Continuing your journey of meaning

[@rebeccamari]

+

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

+

[@IguessImight]

Loving to be brought along.

[@Dave10-4]

The thing I love about science is as soon as you say you have a definitive answer it's not science anymore. If you stop asking questions, you stop learning.

[@laurentomsa805]

I can see myself in the "Good Morning, John"!!! Thanks for coming to UW-Milwaukee, it was great having you!

[@grrlfriday3293]

I'm always a little prepared for a John video to make me weep but when a Hank video gets me it's like a sneaker wave.

[@ElpSmith]

Casual riptide

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

+

[@noklish5194]

̶S̶h̶o̶e̶g̶a̶z̶e̶ Sneakerwave

[@LunarShimmer]

@@noklish5194 💀 lol

[@winstonoboogie2424]

Hank has been getting more and more philosophical, and it's interesting and enjoyable. Carry on.

[@madelinekaa6135]

a secular mysterium tremendum. i've been searching for this phrase my whole life. the goosebump-inducing awe of witnessing the universe and ourselves

[@zofiabochenska1240]

I sometimes get that when stargazing, or feeling the cool evening breeze after a hot day, and I realise that this is an activity/ feeling thst I'm sharing with entire human race, past and present. Wild!

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

That is a particularly excellent turn of phrase. It sounds like something Carl Sagan would have said in Cosmos.

[@erinmac4750]

I'm adding this to my list of favorites. It truly encapsulates that awe of transcendent experiences in our observations and interactions with nature and science. 💜🌌

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

This is a feeling I get at a really good museum - a sense of all the people from however many thousands of years ago who made and used the artifacts that I'm looking at, with human hands and eyes just like mine. There's a sense of both continuity and deep time that I get from the experience that borders on the mystical, and is definitely a source of humanist spirituality for me.

[@jmchap3756]

If you haven't already, you might consider learning about Scientific Pantheisim. As a person who is not religious myself, I struggled to explain what it is that basically nature is my temple and the Universe is worthy of reverence solely for being the awe-inducing thing that it is. Then I came across the concept of Scientific Pantheisim and it just rang so true for me in describing the feelings of awe and reverence I have for nature and the universe.

[@thomasschmidt7649]

Discovery after discovery only proves our history reaches back further and is more complex than we ever realized.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Exactly right. Excavations recently on the Isle of Man (iirc) turned up buildings that looked like Viking longhouses - except they were 5,000+ years old (again, iirc). A wooden plank walkway - with amazingly preserved timbers - is currently being excavated in Zambia. It is reliably dated to 350,000 BC.

[@crichtonbruce4329]

And yet the Creationists will ignore/deny it all.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@crichtonbruce4329 - I’m not religious, but the views are not incompatible. The idea that mankind was created about 6,000 years ago was - if memory serves - dreamed up by an 18th-century English vicar, who summed together all the lifespans of the biblical figures. If not taken too literally, it’s not impossible that ‘Adam’ was seeded onto Earth 🌍 perhaps a couple of million years ago.

[@ABurst0fSunshine]

Terry Pratchett had written that someone is not dead while their name is still spoken. The story of the prehistoric peoples continues to live on through moments like these, where we reflect upon them and stitch their lives into the ways in which we see the world. Our collective memory and understanding of these peoples keep them alive through the generations

[@erinmac4750]

Terry Pratchett understood so many things. I wish I had gotten the chance to meet him. Discworld is one of my go-tos for grounding and keeping sane in these turbulent times. 💜🐢🐘🧙

[@cholten99]

GNU Terry Pratchett

[@t0dd000]

Sæculum.

[@muffntheB]

that little piece of philosophical sentiment predates terry pratchett by thousands of years

[@erinmac4750]

@muffntheB However, he included this and many other beliefs in his alternate universe of Discworld.

[@keriezy]

I'm so glad there are people with the executive function to find answers to all my questions.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

community for the win!

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

They were neighbors, friends, fathers and mothers, daughters and sons, uncles and aunts, nieces and nephews, artists, philosophers, craftspeople, lovers, they were our family and now they are gone and we are what remain of them.

[@CriticalofOnions]

Family stays with you too! I like to think my dad's still here in my similar face, my sense of humor, my musical ability... Family, friends, loved ones etc. survive in what they teach you and what you learn from them. In the sense you're talking, I guess that means they have not gone, and I guess genetics can back that up as well.

[@Bebe.B.]

I had my DNA ancestry test done and it showed that I carry neanderthal DNA and my first thought was how amazing it was that I carry ancient DNA inside my body. It blows my mind, and I think about it a lot. Time marches on but it also carries things with it that connects all of us through time. It is a lovely thought.

[@jaidenlefeber]

Hi Hank, thank you for visiting us at the university! It was really lovely to meet you and get to introduce you on stage.

[@louisi9239]

I watched you talk about this in person and it was so wonderful thanks for coming to Milwaukee it means a lot!

[@sadie28048]

Thank you, Hank, for coming to Milwaukee it was an amazing experience!!! ( sorry the interviewer didn't know johns name, that does not reflect on us we sware XD ) But I was the person who handed you the card ( sorry I just set it on the stage I didn't realize how high it was or if I was even able to do that sorryyy) but if you read it thank you

[@samantha8578]

Brene Brown defines spirituality as "Recognizing and celebrating that we are all inextricably connected to each other by a power greater than all of us (biology and physics and time I think can be considered a greater power), and that our connection to that power and to one another is grounded in love and compassion (which are undeniably part of our biology as much as fear and anger). Practicing spirituality brings a sense of perspective, meaning, and purpose to our lives." You don't need a god to feel that we are all connected. Your deep awe of the inherent wonders of the universe gives me so much hope and joy and even purpose. Thank you, really.

[@Norickayer]

As another non-religious person, I get the same deep, spiritual feeling in situations like this, where I feel a connection to the unbroken line of people who came before me(and I'd argue that Neanderthals and Denisovans were not only people, they were human people! Multiple human species!).

[@steggopotamus]

Reverence feels like the word I'd use

[@starry_eyed_frog]

I got this feeling at the Mesa Verde ruins and in beautiful natural places like Havasu Falls in the Grand Canyon it’s a wonderful feeling

[@GaelyneGasson]

YES. Human people. ❤

[@xczechr]

Yes, it bothers me that he keeps referring to Neanderthals and Denisovans as not human.

[@GaelyneGasson]

@@xczechr I feel the same. It hurts.

[@BrentODell]

Someone, so many thousands of years ago, came into a cave and saw art left by someone they never knew. They didn't scrape it off, cover it up, or destroy it. They added their story to the one before. That is so beautiful to me.

[@erinroberts7059]

I’ve never heard another person articulate this feeling before! Thank you!!

[@ArtForSwans]

This reminds me of the 18,000 year old footprint fossils at White Sands national park where you can see two sets of footprints, a big set belonging to a woman, and a small set belonging to a child. At a certain point, the smaller set of footprints disappears, and it's just the bigger set from then on. And you can imagine that mother and her child walking through the mud together until the kid starts getting fussy and begging to be picked up and carried. It feels deeply religious without invoking any kind of god or spirit, because it's a human doing human things in a time period I can't even fathom. The article I read used the words "daily life during the Ice Age" which is an incomprehensible sentence to me.

[@rebeccamcconnell6694]

How wonderful! Call me naive, but I've sometimes wondered if our old myths of 'little people,' dwarves or fae were just long oral traditions to a time when were sharing the earth with other human species. That's why I love fairy tale and take it seriously. Even if it is all fiction, it makes me feel more human to believe in it.

[@rhosymedra6628]

I think so too! It makes a lot of sense given how incredibly old oral traditions can be.

[@erinmac4750]

Creganford does awesome work about the origins of stories, myths, legends, within and across cultures. Does his research, and has a soothing quality to his voice, as well. 🍀

[@AUnicorn666]

I feel like myths of dwarves are probably based on irl little people, folks with dwarfism

[@TPRM1]

That’s a great point. Aboriginal oral tradition goes back (at least) 20,000 years (as confirmed in the fossil record). So yeah, oral tradition going back tens of thousands of years (and turning out to be true) is perfectly plausible.

[@rebeccamcconnell6694]

@@TPRM1 If you have any books or videos for further reading on aboriginal oral tradition , I'm always looking, so please comment and let me know!

[@stupendemysgeographicus5009]

Something fascinating about the famous Chauvet Cave is that while the art is from around 31, 000 YA, there are footprints from a child, and the remains of a hearth from around 26, 000 YA. Which means that at some point, someone rediscovered paintings that had been made around 5,000 years earlier, and now both those paintings and the people who rediscovered them are part of our ancient past.

[@llillocanada]

This is spirituality to me. The connection we have with people and animals and earth and all particles everywhere interacting

[@uufruity]

It’s so beautiful!

[@dragonflies6793]

We are of nature and nature is of us, and how wondrous to be in and of this world together

[@emilyleaf9857]

The fact that this sense of spirtuality resonates so strongly amongst nerdfighteria is genuinely amazing. What is it about these two brothers that have brought this community together?

[@cassiopeiasfire6457]

One of the proposed etymologies for "religion" is from Latin "religare", "to bind together", and so sometimes I think about religion as the stories, symbols, rituals and so on that foster those connections, that help us to experience that oneness with each other.

[@allisonfarrell7968]

One of the Milwaukee lecture attendees here! I’m so happy you made a video about this after mentioning it toward the end of the panel. It was awesome to hear you talk about science communication like this, and I hope you liked Milwaukee despite the cold snap we got right before you got here 😂

[@Lutefisk445]

To every human alive, evidence of our now deceased ancestors, be it 3 generations or a hundred, feels ancient and awe-inspiring. Imagine being only a hundred years younger than that painting and seeing it and wondering about the person or people who made it. Maybe you're from the same group and have stories, or maybe you're just passing through.

[@mariannetfinches]

I like this. As someone lucky enough to own a house, it's something I think about all the time when I'm looking after it. Seeing the hard work of our predecessors & doing our best so its next inhabitants can enjoy it for hopefully another century or two (I would say longer, but that depends on flood levels with global warming. Something else to work on). Makes me feel connected to humanity on a scale much greater than myself. I guess that's kind of what religion is for, to a degree

[@AlvaTheSpurned]

5:05 like turtles all the way down??

[@paulaOyeah]

It looks like a land layout. There is a cow pen with a space between the pigpen. There are crops closer to the pigs because the rain runoff would fertilize the land there. It even looks like the crops are going "downhill." That image looks like it could be a plow. The bottom looks like a sled foot with a sort of wedged-blade at the front. The four little arms are likely to be tethers for the plow animals. The bigger propeller is puzzling, but might represent the place where the farmer would stand. This could still be collaboration between cultures; maybe someone was sharing with a community how best to set up their home for long-term stay, rather than hunter-gathering.

[@toddverbeek5113]

There is no evidence that Neanderthals ever grew crops, and the domesticating of livestock is even newer (less than 15K years ago), so if that was the intended meaning of this, it must have been added by Sapiens.

[@christinebuckingham8369]

I agree and was seeing this image in the same way too.

[@steveschunk5702]

And here I thought it was someone landing a paraglider in the farmyard.

[@escandolosoamargo]

That may be what it looks like to you, a modern human, but none of those things existed at that time, not cows, not pig-pens, not crops, not plows, not sleds, nor farmers. So it is something else, and we will likely never, ever know.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

​@@escandolosoamargono way! When did cows get invented?

[@Ella-fv4hm]

Omg this is so cool to actually see in a video after hearing you talk about it last night!!

[@the_mothmxn]

I wasn't able to visit La Pasiega, but standing in front of a set of painted dots that we believe were painted by Neanderthals in a fairly nearby cave (El Castillo) was one of the most singular experiences of my life. Anybody who is able to visit, there is truly nothing like standing in a cave and looking at a painting that was made ten to sixty THOUSAND years ago. (And for those who are concerned about conservation: not all paleolithic art is in the same boat as Lascaux or Altamira! Do your research, but if you're visiting a cave that has guides and ticketing, they have definitely also done the work to make sure the biome isn't disrupted. Replicas are also amazing, but there is really nothing like actually going down into the earth and seeing the originals if you can.)

[@daniellesnick9256]

Thank you for sharing your passion for this topic. I'm of a similar mind. Your love for science is not only genuine and obvious, but also infectious.

[@delecti]

You mentioned it, but I can't help but wonder what these different human species thought of each other. Was that Neanderthal/Denisovan pairing a fling? Was it a forbidden romance? Was it a quiet boring romance that brought their families together? Modern people have DNA from different pre-modern human species, so it was clearly not that uncommon. Did the groups co-habitate? Was it like an Amish rumspringa? Were there borders (even if informal territorial ones)? What kind of jokes did they enjoy? Who was the first of them to write " was here" on a wall, like so many people have done throughout history?

[@MelindaChovexani]

I just started listening to sapiens, you might enjoy it ^_^

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

My particular favorite bit of ancient " was here" graffiti is carved in a stone sill in what is now the Grand Mosque of the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. It says "Halfdan was here" in Old Norse, written in younger futhark runes. Halfdan was likely a Varangian mercenary in the employ of the Byzantine Emperor.

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

The Neanderthal impressed his Denisovan crush with his amazing art skills. The Denisovan had never seen such a photorealistic drawing of a cow; it was the work of a genius.

[@noxagh]

i always expect a John video to make me feel like this world is beautifully and mysteriously complex and amazing, but when Hank makes a video like it it just unexpectedly hits harder. Thank you Hank.

[@heystaceykay]

Your video today has me heading down a rabbit hole of information about archaic humans and Denisovans, so thank you for that! I love learning about new facets of our world. (Just yesterday, I learned that Amazonian otters exist!) But in an unrelated direction, I just needed to let you know that your hair looks /amazing/.

[@erinmac4750]

You might want to check out Stephan Milo's videos on archaic humans. He's one of the people that brings the most heart to the life of these ancient humans. (Been following him since the "spoon" days....) North02's videos are excellent as well. His ones about the Neanderthal flute and Neanderthal lives are still some of the best. He also recruited his buds for some reenactment. That's so awesome.💚😎

[@heystaceykay]

​@@erinmac4750 thank you so much! Based on your recommendation and the singular video I just watched, I think you've led me to a new favorite creator

[@jbkkkkk]

the power of connection to those who are gone and those that are still here cannot be underestimated. Connection brings people to life, and Id like to think this moment of connection with the past means something.

[@eventingkate1339]

The coolest thing about that cave painting is the possibility of recorded counting. Will we ever know what it represents? No. Is it cool to imagine it may have represented a tally/counting/mathematical representation? Absolutely!

[@mamemckee2190]

And the squares look like animal stalls. Counting livestock?

[@CineSoar]

Or, is it an ad for livestock stalls, touting the fact that it will keep the rain off of them? Get yours now, before the 3 armed rabbit comes by in his airboat and makes off with your cattle!

[@escandolosoamargo]

@@mamemckee2190 That is one thing that it most certainly was not. This was long before agriculture developed.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@escandolosoamargo- Even in the deepest neolithic, ppl must’ve learned to stockpile foodstuffs for the winter, and to build rudimentary shelters where they returned every night, processed food, and made tools and clothing.

[@knittingmoose]

Following the continuity of three collaborative humans working to make the full expression of art... It is astounding and humbling that the 3rd artist made the copy half the time or less after the 2nd artist added to the original piece.

[@imgooley]

I think realizing that neanderthals were us is an important thing

[@josher887]

0:45 probably the periodic table

[@tsm688]

element cow

[@pz8949]

i religiosly identify as a fan boat believer

[@gobblinal]

I wonder if it's supposed to be a plow, maybe with oxen yoke? But I don't think they were doing mass agriculture like that 60k years ago? Unless it was just a Neanderthal Davinci's random notebook drawing?

[@pz8949]

@@gobblinal based on how the dots are layed out, they would seem to signify directions to where the animal pictured was found (although based on how dots are used in other cave drawings, from those I would assume it means blows to kill or kills of animal). When it comes to the image, i do think the original cave drawing is different from the rendition (I will use the rendition as area of drawing reference but the cave drawing as actual drawing reference). If we split the rendition down the middle, I believe right side is of a ancestral equivalent of a human at that era either performing an action that is meant to signify something related to the animal (how i see it is the hands are cupped performing some action and a line is drawn from the equivalent to human to the animal side of the drawing and the thing behind the human is meant to further signify their action). I believe the left side is meant to signify the direction in this case, which would contrast to my idea of other cave drawings use of dots. This could be kills/blows as stated before, but the reason I dont agreee is due to the curve of the dots on the left side. That should signify something to do with direction. but hey, thats just 4 hienekens at 1 am speakin

[@pz8949]

The purpose of the drawing being to communicate the knowledge of this animal was found at this location and this action was used, either in perparation for the confrontation or for procedding the killing (skinning/ritualistic/consumation/etc)

[@jessieoliver]

Thank you for sharing this very reflective perspective, Hanks!

[@patrickbuban4963]

Hi Hank! Glad you came to Milwaukee!

[@Abijean]

This is the stuff that makes me want to cry.

[@audreybray1149]

Really needed some positivity today, Hank. Thank you🫶

[@Idefilms]

Me too! I love stories about the greater story ❤

[@emilytopham5069]

+

[@ellemm]

💚🌼🙂

[@lemonlemonster]

I love thinking about how I have ancestors that go back thousands of years, that I’m here because of them, and they’re people I’ll never know of but are in a way my family

[@Marklar3]

Neanderthals are considered humans by people who study early "humans", including Dr. Bridget Alexander, who has at least podcasted with one of SciShow's writers on the Common Descent Podcast (Episode 177).

[@golwenlothlindel]

Depends whether you consider it more likely that Neanderthals were a seperate species (which he indicated in the video is his view on the subject) or a subspecies. Personally, I do classify Neanderthals as a subspecies of H. sapiens, but I do recognize that it is valid to disagree with that classification.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@golwenlothlindel- Seems clear that humans and neanderthals and Denisovans could and did interbreed. Recent genetic research suggests the out-of-Africa theory is grossly oversimplified, and there was far more tooing and froing around Eurasia than previously suspected.

[@golwenlothlindel]

@ yeah, this is one reason why I personally favor the subspecies theory. It's just that the "two species cannot interbreed" idea is also a bit outdated and oversimplified. There are other examples of species, including primate species, successfully interbreeding. We also cannot prove what the success rate of interbreeding events was. Like I said, experts don't agree about whether Neanderthals are a closely related species to us, or if they are the same species. I don't know what it is you're trying to suggest about the Out of Africa theory, but knock it off. Neanderthals evolved in Africa and so did modern humans, both groups then traveled out of Africa. There is no debate about that part.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@golwenlothlindel - I’m not trying to prove anything with the Out-of-Africa theory. Sure, humanity almost certainly originated in Africa but the idea there was a single ‘wave’ that spread from East Africa and gradually populated the entire globe seems incorrect. Recent genetics work suggests waves came out hundreds of thousands of years apart, some perhaps via Gibraltar. There were mass extinctions, interbreeding between waves - in all a very much more complex picture than we imagined as recently as 2020. Some of the early waves may have created the Neanderthals and Denisovans, and other now-lost sub-species, which interbred with later more-Sapiens like waves.

[@empathy_is_only_human]

I genuinely love the passion for scientific discovery that Hank is capable of conveying virtually every time I've seen him speak.

[@smpolaske]

I like the new floor sit format.

[@Ranstone]

Floor gang.

[@milohobo9186]

The research I saw on those cave paintings is that they were not religious at all. They were tracking the time between conception and birth of different animals. See, in the ancient world we had to observe and track those natural processes. We had to learn and share that information. It is truly an amazing thing to trace back our observational science to this cave painting. I respect your choice of iconography.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

That is super cool! Could I get the name of the paper, I'd like to read more

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

The old archeologists joke is that anything you dig up that you can’t identify or understand is called a “ritual object”.

[@brittanydaney5590]

I think i understand spiritual awakenings now. Cause like I FELT this in me. In my chest. Like a panic attack but not. Or maybe more? My world just got so much bigger and more wonderful.

[@brookeallisonparkinson]

Thank you for coming to UW-Milwaukee Hank Green! You were great!

[@johnnymccauley4664]

Weird to finally be in an intro video. Hope you enjoyed Milwaukee! We loved having you!

[@ashleystone7847]

Same! Also, I'm surprised no one asked him what kind of beer he was throwing lol

[@MollyBurns-uwm]

Thanks for coming to UW Milwaukee! Was something to look forward to amidst the Finals Season Dread ™️ - a grad student in architecture

[@kristianzenz4922]

Look at that I’m in the first 5 seconds of this video, technically. Such a thought-provoking topic to discuss! Thank you for speaking to UWM yesterday.

[@alexbowman7582]

The Lascaux cave in France shows the constellation Taurus as a bull in a painting thought to be 17,000 to 22,000 years old. It shows the bull with the Hyades around its face, with the Pleiades above and what is now Orion stars below. Surely the idea of the asterism representing a bull is the oldest provable concept in human history and it also suggests a widespread shared culture.

[@carterfrvr]

I think its a testament to the need to express feeling or thoughts with art. It's just beautiful, and I'm amazed that technology is letting us get a deeper look into things we couldn't have just years ago. I don't understand the science or technology details behind it, but I appreciate it and am grateful.

[@Pingviinimursu]

This makes me want to say Hank is on a journey of meaning

[@ViperOfMino]

I took two Archaeology classes (one intro lecture, one upper level lecture+lab) and they were definitely in my top 5 favorite classes of all time in college (well, graduating next Summer but whatever). One of my favorite parts was clearing up the myriad misconceptions that laypeople (including me) have about the field, and human history as a whole, and learning what the REAL questions and debates in the field right now are.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

Neat! What sorts of experiments did you do in lab?

[@pamcakes1234]

This is a top 5 vlogbrothers video for me. This made me curious what the "top" vlogbrothers videos actually are, and was disappointed in myself for not knowing it was obviously going to be Giraffe Love.

[@donsample1002]

I don’t think you’ll find many current day anthropologists who will say “Neanderthals weren’t human.”

[@jeremyjensen7144]

I don't understand why it even makes sense to call them different species if we could have babies with them.

[@VilcxjoVakero]

Is there a preferred term used by anthropologists here? I get that the species difference here is whooshy what with the me being 4% Neanderthal and all, but still

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

well unfortunately we're not living in a world where experts lead the public opinion

[@ozmiumYT]

different species can have fertile offspring with members of the same genus.

[@antonco2]

@jeremy I mean, dogs and wolves can mate and produce offspring, but do you really want to call them the same thing? They are different in so many ways

[@ZDKzap]

I’ve had this as my phone background for years and im glad to see someone talk about it on youtube

[@Alex-js5lg]

0:49 "the paint in Spain is found mainly in the cave"

[@Emily-tv1iz]

If the half-neaderthal half-denovisan Hank's talking about is the one I think it is, we were able to tell through that individual's DNA that their denovisan parent had neanderthal DNA as well. Like hundreds and hundreds of generations back but it was there. So that one bone fragment showed us two cases of at least these two species creating families together

[@zolacnomiko]

I love the way you've contextualized this, as a collaboration between people of different species, in different times-including the rendering by the archaeologist. The whole thing just echoes with meaning. (I also feel like this design would be an excellent choice for a tattoo.)

[@JordanRebecca]

I saw cave paintings when i was on a study abroad in spain and YES! Such a feeling of "wow, we really are all the same, aren't we?"

[@hewasfuzzywuzzy3583]

Just imagine what these people saw and experienced on a daily basis. All before they were "discovered" they were essentially us. And they were making their own discoveries of their place in this world. The story is still being written. We're another chapter of that continuing tale of what it is to be aware of our existence and our relationship with it all. This was mind blowing and beautiful! ❤

[@LunarShimmer]

The part about this being "the kind of religion I get to have" is so real. The awe and majesty of what's just _chilling everywhere around us_ is just so much greater and more tangible to me. There really is no better way to put that than just "WHOA, humans!!! Humans are SO COOL this planet is SO COOL WHOAAAA" yknow. It is my favorite form of philosophy.

[@GloomTart]

When you mentioned the idea of a non-religious image that feels religious, I immediately thought of the pale blue dot photo (a picture of earth taken from far outside our solar system that was orchestrated and popularized by Carl Sagan). It's a different image but it carries the same sentiment: every part of what we consider 'history', everyone, every creature we know to have existed, it all happened on this tiny piece of rock floating through the vastness of space.

[@erinmac4750]

The Earth rising on the moon video that Anton Petrov plays in his outro gives me the same feeling. That's our precious blue planet.... 💜🌌

[@CrowsNest2012]

Beautiful. Both the image, and the thoughts. Thank you for the reminder. As much as we all don’t love all our messy relations equally, we are indeed all related.

[@al.kenzie]

I love this. I do this all the time. I try to stop and take a moment to imagine what the space I'm in (Street, block, whatever) would have looked like and how it would have been used at some other time in history. I try to really visualize it, and witness the fact that things were once very different and that moment felt as important to those people as now does to me. And that feels spiritual. I like the interspecies element here, thanks so much for sharing.

[@kareninthevalley]

I do that, too!

[@katehill7462]

I clicked on this video knowing that it would make me cry AND it did. so thanks Hank

[@_hunnybe]

I love that I also immediately saw a bunny rabbit with three arms driving like a personal fan boat.

[@jennysalisbury6496]

Oh Hank, this is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing these big exciting thoughts.

[@DanielledeVreede]

I think I saw a documentary once where they argued it was most likely that the climate got colder and the neanderthals didn't have as much community to help them survive? Not sure cause it was quite a while ago

[@HungerGamesFan00]

sometimes i look at photos like this, and i can almost see another person, using pigments to draw lines and squiggles and dots. i don't know what the shapes mean to them, but i want to sit there and watch them do it anyway, because if it means something to them, then that's enough for it to have meaning to me. sometimes i look at photos of handprints on cave walls, made of pigments dating back thousands and thousands of years, and i can see a kid standing there, smearing their hands in paint as kids do, and pressing them to the wall. i hear them giggle. they run over to tell their mother, or father, or older sibling, or the nearest adult, tugging at their shirt to get them to come over and look at the fresh handprints on the wall. i want to be there and hug them, tell them how proud i am of them, even though it's such a simple little action, and they probably didn't remember that particular moment 20 years later, and it probably didn't even mean much of anything, but it did, though, didn't it? a little 'i was here, i existed in this moment, i was alive to feel the wet paint and the cold wall of stone'? and i want them to know that we remember, and that their little stencil they made when they were four years old still means something! it means more than ever! im not religious at all, but if im wrong and there is a heaven and hell or something else Afterwards, i hope theyre somewhere nice, and that they know that i care that they existed

[@anonymes2884]

Hmm, non-religious religious... Not sure, probably something with mountains in it for me but the CMB image from Planck is pretty awe inspiring too.

[@transformtransmitt]

So articulate and exact in your explaining of your process of wondering and thinking on these matters-- thankx -- excellent!

[@gotri]

I love this so much. Thank you for sharing!

[@paulkinzer7661]

I am having such a wonderful time reading the comments on this beautiful video. I came here to say a few things, but they've already been said many times, which is kind of a part of what I wanted to express: we are all connected, sometimes through pain and conflict, but often through love, and common interests, and needs, and desires. While watching you speak, Hank, I waited for you to discuss inter-species genetic combination, and had a thought that I've had before; had, in fact, the first time I heard about my Neanderthal ancestry: somewhere, some time, long ago, peoples connected in a definite, biological way. As soon as I learned that, I wanted to believe that the connection was good, and deep, and loving. You more than once differentiated us from Neanderthals by calling us 'human' as opposed to them. I think of all of us as human. We're not so very different. And I feel a connection to you, and to commenters here, who share the same almost-religious awe at knowing about this ancient connection between both species and time. Thanks so much for this image!

[@renato360a]

2:24 EDIT: I stand corrected. It's kinda funny that we do somewhat know what Neanderthals look like because back then when we met them we were like "I wanna tap that".

[@NaryanBergstrom]

He said "a" not "the". Also the second part of your comment doesn't make sense.

[@renato360a]

@@NaryanBergstrom true on the syntax side. The second part stands.

[@NaryanBergstrom]

@renato360a the second part is bizarre. We know what Neanderthals looked like because we've found their bones. Some people want to bang animals or inanimate objects. How does the fact that some people mated with Neanderthals in any way give us an idea of what they looked like?

[@noahfritz8680]

Good morning from Milwaukee I saw you yesterday!!

[@chickenphat730]

Same here!

[@ericcartman2995]

omg he said he'd post this today during his show yesterday and he actually did what a chad

[@kateisblue]

This is my favourite fact hank has taught me, im constantly telling people about this!!

[@logan2113]

I'm getting this tattooed on me!!! with a lil museumesque text dating it. I was so unbelievably pumped to find out we have art from nonhumans 60k+ years ago 🫠😍

[@DanielledeVreede]

My brain thought you found it out 60k+ years ago. Thanks brain😂

[@SapkaliAkif]

You might also like Onfim's drawings on barks of wood.

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

Nonhumans?! Those are my greatⁿ grandparents you're talking about here!

[@polespinosa4858]

Had the same idea LOL

[@ProKitman]

Religion is spiritual storytelling, and you telling this story gave me that feeling too

[@mattnickles6371]

I see a concept or instruction. Sometimes I wonder if we don't ascribe too much religion and ritual to our distant ancestors. These could be concepts one or more were trying to get the tribe to get on board with. I see a counting mechanism. Maybe a path. A possible 1st person and bird's eye view. Maybe the earliest signs of a trapping concept. I mean most likely not. A fun thought experiment though. One that helps keep minds open and helps keep from just defaulting to ritual and religion. They were not just trying to understand the world around them, but also trying to convey these epiphanies to each other. I was not aware we had a good sketch of that painting. I had only seen the faded picture on the wall. Thank you for sending me on today's rabbit hole. Love your work. Thank you for your thoughts.

[@travcollier]

Thanks for reminding folks that "person" doesn't mean "human" really. While we don't have Neanderthals and Denisovans around anymore, I think we're likely close to the point where we will be sharing this planet (a possibility some other rocks) with non-human people. Some humans think we already are, and though I don't quite agree, I can't say they are definitely wrong about that.

[@ThatOneIrishFurry]

i have really grown a new appreciation for the word "person" this year like the way hank uses it in this video to describe both humans and neanderthals reminds me of the sci fi concept from the Lancer TTRPG the Non Human Person (often abbreviated to NHP) that is like code given life basically that doesnt follow the universal laws of causality (but thats a differnt can of worms) my point is that personhood is a broader catagory than we usually give it credit for and i like that