Ep. 192 | Can You Hunt With a FFP Riflescope?

[@briansupermag3918]

I've switched all my scopes to FFP MRAD. Best decision I've made in hunting. SFP long gone and so happy i did it. Just wish i did it years ago.

[@dshook1568]

Makes 2 of us

[@martin2514]

Yes you can, it is all I hunt with. FFP also allows you to range an animal 🦒 if needed. Hunt with what ever you are competent with. FFP all the way for me.

[@daithi1966]

I like using Maximum Point Blank Range where you sight your scope about 3" above point of aim at 100 yards to give you plus or minus 4" for as long a yardage as possible. Let's say you've got a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge, then you can stay in that 4" window nearly all the way out to 300 yards. Now you just aim center of vitals at everything up to 300 yards. Only if you have to go over over 300 yards do you need to use a holdover. Now you set the scope to max power and use the holdover marks. Second plane is just fine for this kind of usage.

[@shamrock5725]

Yup. Every gun my family has ever used we sight to 300 zero. Or sight in at 100 with the intent of it being zero at 300. Then as you said pretty much everything inside of that is going to be point and fire then the rest is hold over the specific amount.

[@henrywes2628]

Hunted with both, I think if I was taking most my shots ranging from 200-500 yards I would lean more towards FFP. Most my hunting is between 30 and 200 yards so SFP with a duplex reticle works very quickly.

[@denisleblanc4506]

I think most manufacturers have optimized their reticles for long range precision shooting and hope the hunting market can make the adjustments necessary for hunting at various ranges. What they should do is optimize the reticle more for hunting. For example, If they optimized it for a maximum range of maybe 600 yards on big game. Have the illumination automatically turn on below a certain power. The illumination should also include a big doughnut that would still be easily picked up at lowest power. I find the the illuminated center portion of the reticle on most FFP's a little small when shooting quickly on moving close range shots. For these shots the ACSS types of reticles are probably better. I realize these reticles lack the precision wanted in long shots.

[@ronws2007]

14:41 What Jim is talking about can also be seen in SFP scopes with BDC reticles. The Crossfire II has different yardages in correlation to the reticle. First hash mark down is 200 yards for .308 Win. But it is 300 yards for .300 Win Mag. 18:18 another good point. We are naturally drawn to look at the crosshairs. So, dialing elevation works for that. And windage, if you know the wind is constant, such as the high plains states, with winds at a constant 20 MPH. Just dial it, you know that you want to. That being said, it is easier to do on a scope with exposed "tactical" turrets. As opposed to the BDC scopes that have caps on the turrets and those are designed to just shoot with the BDC marks. Or, like some guys do with a duplex scope, zero for 25-250 and aim somewhere around the shoulder and pray for the heart shot.

[@TheCowboyfromhell87]

FFP OR SFP no matter which you use you need to go out and practice with it and become familiar with your equipment. Either can be effective at any range if you know your equipment.

[@wilfdarr]

Exactly!

[@ronws2007]

10:28 depends on logistics for hunting big horn sheep. The Mayfield Ranch, in Christoval, Texas is about 3500 for an Aoudad Sheep plus 200 per day for a guide. My boss went there, with a guide, got a ram at 250 yards with his .300 Win Mag. They take care of retrieval, skinning, quartering and sending to meat processing. He took the trophy to a place near Grandbury and the trophy is mounted magnificently in his office. Shot right at the top of the right shoulder, quartering to. The beast started charging straight for him. He cycled another round and then the ram dropped. It ran about 30 yards on it is last few heart beats. Awesome.

[@islas357]

Ranch hunting is not awesome.

[@ernieforrest7218]

As for first focal plane scopes, Bausch & Lomb Balvar scopes produced in the 60s were ffp scopes, including the 6x24 varieable target model. It was very popular among long range hunters in places like PA. in lieu of the more popular Unertle target scopes. They used a tapered cross hair etched on glass for the reticle. I used one for about 25 years with an after market micrometer dial made by Kuharsky.

[@KimDavis-n5t]

I have been using BDC reticles for years and variable power standard crosshairs. I check my bullet drops at different power ranges and compensate if I'm at half power on a standard 3 to 9 3030 rectal at 9 power. It's two meals drop and half that power. It is four meals drop. You can use your BDC recticles the same way

[@DanielBoone337]

I hunt with FFP optics almost exclusively... What I like the most is in low light and the optic dialed back to the lowest power the reticle doesn't interfere with my image and if I need to take a shot I turn on the illumination preferably a night vision setting if they have them because again it doesn't really interfere with the image. (The brighter the illumination the more it obscures you image) Using that technique I've taken shots seconds before hunting hours was over or seconds after hunting hours starts when it's basically night time still and it works really good.

[@VortexNation]

Right on!

[@imafreakinhistorian2169]

@@VortexNation Question - I have an Athlon 4x16 that says SFP on the box and p'work. But when I zoom, the reticle gets fatter ? just like you described the FFP . What's the deal ? Did the store put the wrong scope in the box ?

[@ronws2007]

And changing my mind, once again. Still loving my Diamondback Tactical scopes for my new light weight brush beating hunting rifle, the TC Compass II in .308 Win. I simply like the EBR-2C reticle (and it's cousin the EBR-7C). So, I put one that I have from upgrading another rifle to the Venom. That being said. I will zero at 100 yards. Then, in my hunting area, where most shots are about 50 yards, I can just dial up 3 clicks for being close to .8 MOA and I am good with a 50 yard zero, as it were. Yes, you can use a FFP for hunting. Especially or me, being more comfortable and, I think, a better shooter with this reticle though I there are other people getting more deer with the BDC Dead Hold than I have yet to get. Paul Harrell's rule number one of deer hunting: go where the deer are.

[@VortexNation]

You definitely can. Really it comes down to the type of shots you may encounter and a lot of personal preference.

[@ronws2007]

@@VortexNation Yes sir. I was hoping my point would get across. I am still keeping the Crossfire II scope. Either I will find a use for it or gift it to someone needing something for their hunting rifle. But I have used it for target shooting with great success, averaging close to 1 MOA which is mostly me causing that.

[@timl8302]

@@VortexNation It's really a great scope that I can see the cross hairs at low power 3x-6x without looking at the full Horus reticle. But, the cost is that each hash mark is 2 MOA.

[@michaelficarro2591]

FFP is the way to go, I'm not using hold overs at 2.5X anyway....

[@Imasaint22]

I have both and can say that each has their own advantage. My vortex is first focal plane so I can use the redical ( although i usually prefer dialing the turrets ), but it is a few ounces heavier than my Leupold. Leupold is second focal plane but the vx3 HD is around 13oz. And has the CDS turret on top, so you can dial your specific load with great hunting accuracy, so really I would recommend both to any hunter/shooter thats has the budget to get a great scope !

[@89aces]

Yes its amazing for coyote hunting. Hold overs are always correct on little targets when your in a rush

[@1bobharvey]

I have always hunted with SFP. They were common growing up. which, in my mind, is where the need to pick a rifle and caliber and stick with it. Cause you have to learn the rifle and load combo drop at expected distances. I will say if you know the dope in inches for a rifle and load @100-500 or put a dope chart on the buttstock, it is very quick and has "less" things to go wrong IMO. I would think a good SFP scope with basic set and forget turrets is always going to be lighter in weight, I would think. I will say finding a really high-quality lightweight scope without a ton of fancy features clogging up the reticle or turrets sticking a mile out of the thing in 3 different directions now and it drives me nuts.

[@zerklin1]

This scope is exactly what I’ve been waiting for, excited for it to finally come out so I can order one

[@dropset3760]

That’s why they have field charts for hunting with 2nd plane bdc scopes for magnification adjustment. Nikon had that mapped out on the old spot on app years ago.

[@SpudOutdoors]

I want that scope lol. I was hesitating with the LHT but this one is all I want in a scope.

[@randy4134]

In my opinion SFP is better for most hunters. I’m either shooting at 10x or the animal is close enough to where bullet drop isn’t a factor. I could see FFP being a lot better with the higher power scopes.

[@VortexNation]

Absolutely! The situation/terrain definitely play into what works best and where.

[@bobparvin9773]

I've got both and there's nothing wrong with either. The ffp is on my long range rifle, while my sfp scopes are on my others, and I'm happy with that.

[@604cpr]

I chose the FFP Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 MRAD for my 308 hunting rifle. It’s a pretty versatile scope, and most the hunting in my area is in the mountains or prairies so the extra magnification is useful

[@fredthompson1279]

Great info and timely. I'm seriously considering a FFP scope for my 6.5 CM. It will probably be a Vortex.

[@VortexNation]

Right on! Let us know if you have any questions or need any recommendations.

[@nataliedeyton6829]

I have diamondback tactical FFP scopes on most of my guns love them. BUT I found a weak point to them this last deer season when I had a shooter buck come in at first light and I couldn’t shoot because I couldn’t see my crosshairs they are too thin for hunting in low light.

[@puttnaroundoutdoors5517]

yes, it is too bad that they don't make a diamondback Tactical FFP with illuminated reticle. Instead they save that feature for all of the $900+ scopes which have all sorts of additional features that I am not interested in.

[@shamrock5725]

@@puttnaroundoutdoors5517 I'd only they gave options to people even if it cost a bit more they may see that demand is great enough to start carrying the feature automatically.

[@timl8302]

I found the reticle to be acceptable at low light under 100 yards. I'm not sure about over 100y. But, illumination might work, give or take Colorado game law.

[@littlefinkle7757]

Illuminated reticle helps

[@ukwan]

Someone needs to make a 2-7x32 with 30/30 duplex ret with fixed parallax and super dially turrets and zero stop. Dialing for shots but compact and not way too much mag.

[@anthonymurphy2540]

Great information guys!!

[@ajdube9967]

Of course! It's pretty rough doing wind holds with second.

[@joesabedra8792]

Capped windage is a new need. Wind is faster as a hold.

[@dbeardsley0]

I've switched all my scopes on all my rifles but one to ffp and mils. Diamondback HP 2nd fp I'll keep on one of my 300 win mags, great hunting scope and it can't be found new anymore

[@alexryan9869]

I wear bi-vocals and a first focal plane scope is useless. I’m near sighted with astigmatism. I own 3 NightForce. 3 tactical rifles 2 6.5 CM, 1 M24 308 all second focal plane. First focal plane the reticle completely disappears.

[@brenn330]

I'm hoping this is foreshadowing a quarter 3 FFP release!

[@VortexNation]

😉

[@musicman1eanda]

@@VortexNation Wait is there really a release coming!? Is it an LPVO?

[@VortexNation]

@@musicman1eanda The new Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50 FFP was released today: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGPZaKWYjrprj80

[@stevenmike1878]

3.5-18 ffp illuminated tree reticle, with a centered donut/diamond for a low magnification red dot. priced around the strike eagle price range. but call it the Sky Eagle.

[@VortexNation]

We'll definitely pass that request along!

[@stevenmike1878]

@@VortexNation if you guys are taking requests for ideas. what i would love the most would be a 2-16 ffp illuminated tree reticle, with a centered donut/diamond for a low magnification red dot. priced around the strike eagle price range. that would be the God scope. i could easily hunt in any situation, from very very close wood to open distance. i would buy that without hesitation.

[@Shax2lex]

I always hunt with a FFO scope. I have been looking to get a lighter FFP scope for my bolt rifle and this is it. I was going to buy a Bushnell LRHSI but now it’s going to be another Vortex to match my other Cortex scopes.

[@tylarhaugan7908]

I love ffp for hunting to long range honestly i use swfa 10x for anything at 30 to 500 yards for my tikka t3x lite in 300 winmag

[@saltycowboy8900]

Well the best thing for multiple conditions is always carrying both FFP and SFP, that’s why my 308 and 5.56 have Crossfire II, and my 224 and 300WM have Diamondback Tact, there’s lots of ability to cross over between whatever you need to use. I really gotta give it to you guys at Vortex for the quality and options you guys have.

[@4739-g9c]

Biggest negative of ffp is tactical use. At low magnification the reticle is hard to find. Illumination I'd great. But again in tactical use batteries are always a risk. Second is you lose some of your holdover gets lost At max zoom. Where you need more elevation. All things equal they are equally capable. I still own both.

[@WestCoastGoldProspecting]

Great talk guys. Thanks

[@dshook1568]

Really wished you’d take some of the data or Christmas tree out of the EBR-7C reticle, it’s to busy at the bottom makes it hard to spot shots or use that section of scope for observing

[@Pew_pewchronicles]

I was of the opinion that for hunting SFP was the way to go and FFP I used it for PRS and ELR steel shooting. This past season I gave FFP a try for hunting deer and even predator hunting with the illuminated reticle turned on the 3-15x44 PST Gen 2 has become my favorite hunting scope and just bought my second strike Eagle 3-18x44 that scope is 26 ounces compact and a fantastic value. With that being said I will never buy another second focal plane scope.

[@Shadow-oz1ws]

The point for me getting anything besides just a basic scope is I want to be able range the animal using the scope. I don’t want to have to have 3 or 4 different optics on me just to hunt. I want to glass. See a game animal that I want. Pull up my rifle. Range the animal. Then dial or hold over and take the shot. I hunt alone so I need a more do all optic

[@ronws2007]

One more thing, you think I could figure it out all at one time. For me, the only drawback to FFP scopes is the weight. They just weigh more than the BDC scopes, of any brand. But it is a compromise.

[@rafaelcalderon6028]

I love the Meateater episode he was on.

[@AdventureOne]

A BDC or measured reticle in a variable magnification scope is kinda pointless with a SFP scope. If all you are going to do is shoot a deer within 200 yards, then get a 3-9 with a duplex ret. If you are going to hold anything, get a FFP and mil0scale or MOA-scale reticle. I used to hunt with a SFP, but after I got into long range shooting, I needing my hunting scope to essentially work the same way as my target gun. I went with the NF SHV F1 If Vortex had a FFP mil/mil scope around the $1,000 mark that wasn't made in China or the Phillipines, then I would consider it. Vortex has a lot of great features, but currently, I don't trust the durability and tracking (excluding the razor gen 2, but that scope weighs 4 pounds...)

[@christopherrowley7506]

I disagree. If you are needing to use hold over at all, you are also likely to be using your maximum magnification. So that means you just need to learn your hashes for the max zoom. At lower zoom you are probably at distances you can just hold right on target. And since most hunters do use SFP this is one reason why not getting over scoped for hunting is important--even out west (I live in Utah) I like a 3-9, and in my opinion you really don't need more than a 3-12. If you have too much zoom, you never learn your hashes because you will not have a hard end you are often on. For western appropriate cartridges, and a proper zero, you pretty much don't need to use holdover at 300 yards and under; so past that you will want to be at max zoom and can use your hashes as necessary.

[@Greyzonecompliant]

I zero my rifle att max point blank range for the size target im hunting. And I use ffp scopes so I can hold a correct wind at any mag range. And my scope is generally set on the lowest magnification, to be ready for close shots. So that I can make easier decisions faster.(with limited brainpower) 1. Is this the right animal? 2. Is the range within my PBR (maybe "192" yards)? 3. How much wind do I hold for?

[@TMar129]

What cartridge are you shooting that your mpbr is only 192 yards?

[@joelclark2130]

The number one thing between 1st FFP plane and 2nd sfp optics are what caliber Are you going to use.that determines the 1st major factor.. 2nd major factor is range range and 3rd major factor is what type of animals are you hunting

[@VortexNation]

All important considerations for sure!

[@Two2onefive]

I think the wrong question is being asked. I think the question should be "Do you need FFP to hunt?" We all know that you CAN hunt with FFP but do you need to? Do you need to pay the additional cost of a FFP to hunt? I personally don't think so. But to each their own.

[@christopherrowley7506]

I think it's a waste of money for hunting. If you want a rifle that you can do long distance precision shooting and you can also hunt with, then sure. For hunting, if you are needing to use hold over at all, you are also likely to be using your maximum magnification, so that means you just need to learn your hashes for the max zoom. At lower zoom you are probably at distances you can just hold right on target. And since most hunters do use SFP this is one reason why not getting over scoped for hunting is important--even out west (I live in Utah) I like a 3-9, and in my opinion you really don't need more than a 3-12. If you have too much zoom, you never learn your hashes because you will not have a hard end you are often on. For western appropriate cartridges, and a proper zero, you pretty much don't need to use holdover at 300 yards and under; so past that you will want to be at max zoom and can use your hashes as necessary. Having a 24x FFP scope is totally unnecessary

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

Just to keep it real. Would the Nightforce 2.5x20 not be the best do all scopes on the market? Would you trust to drop Vortex on rocks as much as you would a Nightforce? Is a 7 ounce saving worth the trade in durability? On paper the Vortex 4x22 looks great.

[@brandonparrett2436]

Can I please get vortex to make me a bad ass optic that’s at or under the 12” overall length. Kinda like the leupold mk5 but with vortex etched on it

[@Kram2462]

What is the name of the new release scope again?

[@VortexNation]

stay tuned ;)

[@mr.mr.3301]

I’ve seen where many are using illuminated ffp to split the difference

[@joshbrown284]

Would a 22x scope be a strong enough magnification to shoot out to potentially 2,000 yards?

[@VortexNation]

You certainly could do it, but more magnification would certainly help at that distance.

[@RookCustoms]

Top tier... Tier one vortex doesn't play in that sand box.

[@stevenmike1878]

are the diamondback tactical's ever gonna get illumination?

[@VortexNation]

There's not plans for it at this time. We do have options that are very similar with illumination! Check out the Venom 5-25x56!

[@sethrich5998]

So is this teasing a FFP LHT coming out?

[@sethrich5998]

Oh should have watched till the end first, LHT 4.5-22x. Definitely interested.

[@gillesbolduc863]

please explain to why my Huskamaw is a SFP but yet it can be used at all power magnifications? im confused...

[@tikka300wsm5]

If it has a turret, it can be used at any magnification. But the windage will be off it not at max power.

[@LoneWolf-wy8sl]

Shot plenty with a mil dot 10x swfa from bucks to hogs confident to point hold and shoot as long as i know my range

[@Jesco2841]

What scope for an 18" 308 bolt gun, dual purpose hunting (deer inside 400yds I live out west) and range use? I'm thinking PST g2 FFP 3-15x44, but concerned about weight... guess its worth the 1/2lb to have something that can do both. It was either that or a Viper HS 2.5-10 SFP, that way I can use reticle at 10x, which you would use at anything 300yds and out anyways.

[@VortexNation]

Both of the ones you have mention would be great options! If being a FFP and illumination is something of importance to you, go with the Viper PST Gen II. If that isn't a huge concern, the Viper HS 2.5-10x44 would be a great choice!

[@Jesco2841]

@@VortexNation Just bought the Razor HD LHT 3-15x42. Hard to beat for $1000, and worth the $400 more over the HS LR 4-16. Great product for the weight….I wish you guys would make a simple Duplex reticle with a center illumination for that LHT. I am more of a dial type of guy rather than using hold overs.

[@VortexNation]

@@Jesco2841 That's awesome! We don't have any plans at this time to add that reticle to the LHT lineup, but we'll definitely let our NPD team know that there is interest in one!

[@mr.mr.3301]

But at low light and 50 yards out I can’t see the reticle. Sitting on 3 x. At distance ffp is best.

[@KaneGregory]

I want a first focal plane with caped turrets daylight bright reticle as low as 2.5 to 4 and as high as 14 to 20 but nobody has a scope like that lots of 2nd focal plane scopes in that ballpark but no 1st!🤯🔫👎🏼

[@johnnash5118]

If you buy this or any high-powered scope, does your cartridge and bullet's ethical limitations match the scope's capabilities? Know your cartridge and bullet's Maximum Effective and Point Blank Ranges before you hunt. Bullets require minimum terminal velocities to expand and damage soft tissue with adequate penetration- between 1,500 and 2,500 fps, depending on the bullet characteristics and the size of game. Kill humanely so you can find it before it's lost in the brush.

[@robertmagnstrom6088]

A bad FFP reticle can make a really bad hunting scope but a good FFP makes a hunting scope really, really good

[@gebogen1383]

I know we’re not supposed to be negative, but guys, can you please let Mr. Niese finish before you jump in with your excitement?

[@gsitzkowitz]

I can’t use a FFP for hunting unless it’s illuminated. In low light conditions and low magnification I can’t see the reticle unless it’s illuminated.

[@VortexNation]

Illumination can help a ton! It really is dependent on situations too though. FFP is going to be much more beneficial at higher magnifications.

[@shermrock345]

Sometimes you will see a scope that has the recital work on the first power and the second power on a second focal plane.

[@brandonb3049]

Which weapon is that in the thumbnail?

[@LoneWolf-wy8sl]

Always, sfp causes shift in poi , too many other variables in hunting

[@cvhoway]

Need a LHT 3-15FFP

[@JVR-gd7zw]

Summary. Know your equipment, know what your asking it to do, and practice/verify all the time.

[@VortexNation]

🙌

[@albertoneri5427]

yeah you can.... if i do....you can too

[@AlienMetals]

You have to define " Hunting Riflescope " based on the type of hunting that you do. The kind of hunting that's done out West vs. the majority of East Coast style hunting is mostly night and day. Most of the hunting done by me is primarily Mountain Deer hunting. Bring that FFP out and see how it works out for you. Then again if your in a blind sitting over a huge food plot with several hundred yard shots then that FFP could be the ticket. All comes down to the right tool for the job and without defining your style of hunting the question of FFP vs. SFP is moot.

[@lessforloans]

I’m in South Carolina but a 2-10 scope does just fine. Why do you not think?

[@hantusmostert]

Red dot hunting, with long lasting batteries

[@devinleenhouts6562]

Hot 4x16 diamond back tactical ffp haven't used hash markers much a dialer

[@robertsebacher44]

You can hunt deer with a drone strike or a stick. Most hunters would think either rather extreme. If you have time to use the attributes that a FFP scope allows you are not hunting, you are assassinating game animals. I hunt with 2nd FP. Just my opinion, I do not begrudge those who differ. Hunting as art or science? Maybe a blend of both.

[@connivingcactus539]

Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Did you smash your face on your keyboard repeatedly to vomit that opinion?

[@TMar129]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read....if I'm hunting and I'm at 20 yards and the animal has no idea I'm there then I'm hunting right. If I'm at 400 yards and the a inalienable has no idea I'm there then what's the difference? If a guy can shoot from 600 yards who cares?

[@Nils_Tore_Berntsen_Sagengen]

I only hunt with a FFP scope.

[@thekerr8728]

At this point I don’t understand why anybody uses a sfp. For anything.

[@BG-qo8ol]

Who changes magnification while they are hunting.?

[@GermanHunter]

I do…

[@mikenavy360]

I do

[@dalemyers9045]

I do sometimes. If in the thick woods, no. On our cleared out areas, yes.

[@grahamwilliams1836]

Everyone...

[@dereklinscott8488]

WTF - why would you not? Yeah, I hate my reticle scales being correct 100% of the time, even if i am on 5X rather than 9x when a bull appears. Equipment that works properly is just terrible. Plus, FFPs make for thick reticles at 24x and everyone knows you have to hunt at 24x. WTF?

[@virgilpalmer2427]

Fixed ffp for getting to your target fast..

[@hughtanner208]

ears are perked up (Mammoth Sniper)........

[@tbcarleton]

If you're not first, you're last

[@RookCustoms]

4power being best all around...??? Come on bro 2.5-15 would be the best. 4 power is way to strong for stalking

[@dilorenzopiero5162]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@AllanPowell]

FFP is superior. You don't have to zero for every slight adjustment in magnification.

[@VortexNation]

It definitely has it's advantages in certain situations - that's for sure!

[@eggbert191]

A well made sfp will not have any point of aim shift throughout the magnification range.

[@AllanPowell]

@@eggbert191 those are the kind I would buy if I were to buy a SFP.

[@VortexNation]

@@eggbert191 With the center part of the reticle you won't see any shift in POI when changing magnification. However, you will see a change when using the subtensions to holdover.

[@eggbert191]

@@VortexNation yup wasn't sure if he meant his zero was shifting through the mag range or if he was talking about sub tensions

[@zackw9292]

Too much magnification for hunting.

[@dopeoplereally3972]

"Can you hunt with an FFP" What a dumb question. Clicked on this video to thumbs down

[@VortexNation]

There's a lot of folks who don't believe you can or find it unnecessary in certain settings, but it definitely does have it's advantages for some applications!