Ep. 107 | Let’s Talk LPVO’s (Low Power Variable Optics)

Adam Maxwell and Rob Morell join Jimmy and Mark to talk all about LPVO’s (Riflescopes that go from 1x to a higher magnification) their rise to huge popularity with the shooting community these days and one very exciting new product coming out from Vortex in the category for 2020. If you like to be in the know on new and exciting stuff, you won’t want to miss this one!
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@eballer721]

I'm really interested in LPVO's with simpler reticles for hunting. My 3-9x40 serves me very well but I'd love to have a true 1x while in bear country, approaching downed game in thick cover, close sets, etc. 1-10 sounds like a dream.

[@rf9078]

Also the gen 2 razors and psts have an extremely simple reticle

[@InkwellFoto]

Here for the 1x10 Edit: 35:00 in

[@daylightbrightdlb6010]

👍

[@richardbriscoe8563]

It is easier to design a 2-10 zoom (5X zoom) than a 1-10 zoom (10X zoom). Unless you are comparing a 1X with a 2X side by side there is surprisingly little difference.

[@kitzmillershooting7205]

Fantastic show. I like that you guys got into the reticle types and applications. Well done!

[@BLINDDOGG357]

IDK when they started making them, but I have a 1986 model 1.5-5 Leupold. It’s still a great scope. I have it on a Mark V 460 WBY so I’d say it would hold up to a lot of punishment

[@codyrivenburgh7645]

Red dots are still king in my mind on shotguns for coyotes with buckshot and lever action 4570s in the thick brush shooting deer.....when they jump up and u have a split second to shoot.....Low power optics are king for general purpose rifles...I put one on a short 18 inch barrel 308...for a great all around close to long range hunting and shtf bolt gun

[@kennethboucherie3215]

“It’s carrying around a straw!” I literally laughed out loud and no one there even recognized it was said.

[@richardbriscoe8563]

The benefit of any optic, which includes red dots, is that the target and the sight reticle or dot are in the same focal plane. This matters both in terms of target acquisition and target identification.

[@46dgarrison]

The 1-10 has been really nice for me so far. But if you don’t have a need for anything over 4 power, stick with an acog. There is just something about their glass clarity and field of view that is just amazing.

[@MatthewPetri-i2c]

The first LPVO was made for a German rifle. In 1922, Carl Zeiss rolled out the “Zielmulti” scope, one of the very first low power variable optics.

[@Bshwag]

I have a cz527 in 6.5 grendel that I would very much like to put one of those 1-10x onto. I think it would be a great combination for hunting light short package and capable of taking most game in north america out to 300-400 yards.

[@HawaiianSurfer96]

How do you compare the Schmidt & Bender PMII 1-8x24 DualCC to the Vortex Razor 1-10x24?

[@colt45lmer]

Swampfox makes awesome scope mount with rmr cut on a 45 on the scope ring. So i love running lpvo with large rmr cut red dot on 45 insanley quick transition with a large window so it still extremley easy to tra sition and aquire targets ect.

[@Nutinwrkz]

Wow. This was really interesting. Just subbed. Looking forward to watching earlier vids.

[@VortexNation]

Thanks for tuning in!

[@dad2817]

Wow, great point a 1x optic with a dot is for close quarters....never thought of that you guys are like awesome !!!

[@MrTylero28]

Just ordered a razor hd gen2 with the jm1 bdc after having the viper pst gen2 1-6 I decided to get the best option although the viper certainly has nearly everything the razor has I see the most value in that lpvo without a doubt!

[@Unknown-cq1km]

I’m new to the LPVO game, looking to build a 14.5 Recce rifle, which one would be best 1-6 or 1-10?

[@0214Bub]

you discussed where the lowly red dot is best suited, but where the does the cutoff and utility for the 3x magnifiers fall? do they no longer have a place? btw the new 1-10 sounds impressive.

[@rowdyzack5914]

300m on in the rds+mag > lpvo, source: garand thumb

[@expendedenthusiasm]

Look up a video by Chuck Pressberg ex army ranger and AWG guy, in a nutshell he starts the zero shift of magnifiers and bad eye relief put them behind the curve compared to LPVOs.

[@The_John_Galt]

The biggest thing is target identification. You can use red dots to 700. But you sure as heck cannot identify what you're shooting. So you need to see what you can identify. Then you can answer this question.

[@randomemail3936]

I have owned everything type of optic. Magnifiers were my least favorite. Lpvo’s are the future imo.

[@gcanaday1]

I don't hate magnifiers. I have one on a rifle that isn't intended for anything more than about 300 max. It can do better than I can with a just dot or irons, and that's all I mean for it to do.

[@7RichardTran]

I run a FN Scar 17s, would the razor gen 3 survive the violent harmonics?

[@UrNotThatGuyPal]

VietNinja I love my 17! I ended up going with a Viper PST II 3-15 because I’m honestly not skilled enough yet to appreciate/see the $1500ish difference between them... but it holds up great. Just be sure you don’t skimp on a mount. Plus, with their VIP warranty I’m never worried about the S17 murdering it 🤙🏼

[@7RichardTran]

@@UrNotThatGuyPal I was just wondering because I have US optics B-10 on a larue tactical OBR mount and it is a tank so far. I'm just curious how durable the new razor gen 3 will be against harmonics not just normal physical drops and hits. I was hoping to get something a little lighter and smaller than the B-10 but just as amazing.

[@billbee235]

Just got my hands on it the Gen III 1-10 🙌🏼 🙌🏼

[@ericgonzalez5313]

Could you post the video of Ruben running the scope in the National competition? Thanks

[@ShootingAndReloading]

For competition use, a low power variable needs to operate with precision at short distance and they simply cannot do this with fixed 100 yard parallax. Both for point of aim / impact consistency with a less than perfect cheek weld and also just for optical clarity, adjustable PX is needed. Another really interesting podcast 🙂

[@dakotalawdog]

It depends on what kind of competition you are shooting, right? An LPVO is not a good choice for PRS, but it is the go-to optic for 3-gun. They talk about this around 13:30 - the LPVO has to be an awesome performer on 1x. After that, the magnification gives you extra capability you won't get with a red dot. If you need adjustable "parallax" for your application an LPVO probably isn't the scope you need, you may be better suited with something in a higher magnification range.

[@ShootingAndReloading]

@@dakotalawdog You make a reasonable point. My use case may be niche - UK Gallery Rifle. In this discipline we engage targets ranging from 10 to 100 meters. Sometimes we have several minutes to make dozens of shots and sometimes we are snap shooting at close distance with target exposures of a couple seconds or less. X-ring sizes are only a couple inch. Here the 1-N variable is invaluable, enabling both red-dot style speed and longer range precision. However, when parallax is fixed at 100 meters, the 10 meter PX error is over 4 MOA and picture blurry! (good PX error calculator here www.lelandwest.com/parallax-error-calculator.cfm) I'd argue that March have their low power variables correct - with PX from 10 yard to infinity. If you don't want to change PX, then set it to an average distance and leave it.

[@dakotalawdog]

@@ShootingAndReloading - that makes sense. I remember speaking with some guys from the UK at SHOT Show a couple years ago who were telling me about that - they were looking for a high magnification optic that could focus at 10 meters and until then, I had never envisioned the need to be able to be able to focus at such close distances with a high magnification scope. Sounds like a very cool sport!

[@blainstenberg2806]

This 1-10 looks awesome for a 30/06 hunting rifle setup perfect at close range and great at 400m 500m

[@peetje28021970]

What is the minimum focus distance at 8-10mag?

[@zakward7243]

Are the Cabelas ar scopes from vortex?

[@FKNSENDIT]

Do they make a gen 2 e sunshade I've looked everywhere, there's threads on my gen 2e an I seen a guy that had one on his gen2e but I never asked him if it was custom made us his was cerakoted to match the dark earth color

[@VortexNation]

Hey there - we do not have one available for that model. Is it possible that he had the Razor HD Gen III? We do have one for that model.

[@FKNSENDIT]

@@VortexNation I believe it to be a gen 2 e I still have the box my measurements on the threaded part for the sunshade is 30/31mm I just mic d it with a digital measure tool inside of threads I figured if there was a spot for it than there would be one maybe I can have a machine shop make one

[@VortexNation]

@@FKNSENDIT The thread pitch is M31x0.75-6H

[@peterpoel1019]

I’m looking at one for a .44 hunting rifle for Midwest whitetail. 100 yard shots or less. What are your recommendations? Thanks

[@MRxxWH33L5]

I’d look into the strike eagle 1-6.. the crossfire 1-4 is also a really good option.. go with an illuminated reticle so you can see the crosshairs in low light too.

[@peterpoel1019]

@@MRxxWH33L5 ended up w leupold 1.5x5x22 hd. Think it’ll work great. Unfortunately the illumination upgrade was another 200 which broke the budget. Thanks

[@boneharvester_eth4021]

Vcog 1-8x 32mm tube 😎 way to go

[@AtlantiXYL]

Funny how my buddies got the LPVOs, but never once they PID anything or did drive 70 miles out of town to shoot beyond 25 yards. I think most people are better off with a red dot or a prism sight in the real world, not the world where shoppers think they can get into situations similar to what they see on IG or youtube.

[@knottywoodoutdoors4932]

Many of us can see 200+ yards in every direction when we step out of our front door. Target identification as we get older really is nice with some mag. But I agree having gear tailored to your situation makes the most sense. Pure urban environment an aimpoint + magnifier is extremely capable.

[@randomemail3936]

That’s why I like my strike Eagle 1-6. I have the close range function of a red dot, but have stretched it out to 400 on an 8” target. I’m like you, I’ll probably never have the need to shoot out to 400, but I like knowing I can if I need to. It allows me more functionality while still serving the primary purpose. I had so much fun shooting at 400, that now I want this to see if I can get it out to 1k.

[@keithlucas6260]

When your front gate to the back gate is 80 acres away and no one lives past it by several miles, that 338 LaPua round can pick off anything from the next zip code.....then there's that occasional predator sneaking up to your livestock and horses that makes the LPVO shine.

[@5jump]

We had a choice between eotech, aimpoint, acog, elcan etc. I trusted my M68 as it always held zero even between airborne operations. FF a few deployments and my preference changed. I liked the Leupold and ACOGS more. I don’t ever remember looking for a dot while clearing buildings. It was always get the top of the front sight on target and squeeze the trigger.

[@kingpin16052]

I just bought a 1-10 through EuroOptic and the UPS delivery driver “lost” it!!!!! So bummed

[@JamesWillmus]

Did it ever show up? I've had a lot of stuff become significantly delayed (both as a buyer and a seller) but I have yet to actually lose a package.

[@KaneGregory]

I like the 2nd focal plane for AR type rifles I wish I would have kept my 1-6 you’ve been warned!🤯🔫✊🏿

[@eM-ed5pz]

How many of the scopes are made in China?

[@sha6mm]

I did a lot of Research on LPVO and bought a Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 in MRAD. I would of preferred a JM-1 BDC but the Mil is ok as in the Marine Corp I was a Surveyor and very familiar with MIL’s What did I buy this for AR for Coyote Calling short range Prairie Dogs inside 300 yards beyond that I’ll use my 700 Rem .223 Rem. and I hope not for SHTF rifle.

[@BennyHill8844]

I just got a Vortex Strike Eagle OPMOD, is that a real Vortex optic, or is it a optics planet knock off?

[@bedlamite42]

30:00 This is why I like the lock ring.

[@SCROGY]

$4500.......HELL NOOOOOO.

[@bigmike716]

The ONLY thing I don't like about an LPVO is the weight and eye box. For my wife's rifle, she gets a red dot. My rifle gets an LPVO. I'm ok with the weight, she's not.

[@daylightbrightdlb6010]

Currently waiting for my back order...

[@Язепс]

Hope you got it!

[@chrisflores5541]

I want a reticle like this in a 1-6 or a 1-8.

[@bedlamite42]

1:05 You can lead a horse to water, but we all know what a wet horse smells like.

[@dkcheeseburger]

When are we getting a gen 3 4.5-27?

[@thirdworldadv1312]

Why the edit at 50:13? Are his true feelings that bad for business?

[@josephmorgan1091]

#VortexNationPodcast why did you cut and paste the video at 50:13 when discussing the cons of shooting the Vortex Razor Gen lll 1-10 @ 10x came up? Did you think we wouldn't notice? Is it that bad?Doing this severely hurts your credibility. In my opinion editing out the cons is far worse than just being a straight shooter.

[@hugtango]

these scopes were all over hunting rifles in Europe 30-40 years ago to this day

[@troymcdonald9795]

Or you Can Eat an Elephant ! One Bite at a Time!

[@Nutinwrkz]

I'm selling my ACOG 4x32 with a mounted RMR to move to the Vortex Razor HD 1-10.

[@46dgarrison]

How much do you miss that glass on the ACOG?

[@Nutinwrkz]

@@46dgarrison I missed it because I was used to it. It was so comfortable and predictable. Still not as fast with the LPVO, but I haven't shot much during The Crazy. After ammo prices settle down, I'll get squared away.

[@brianblack546]

@@Nutinwrkz Are you happy with your switch?

[@Nutinwrkz]

@@brianblack546 I'm torn. I'm running a fixed 3 power on my #1 rifle. I could go either way.

[@brianblack546]

@@Nutinwrkz Thanks, I put a vortex razor 1 to 6 on my secondary rifle today. I leaned heavily toward a ACOG before getting the razor.

[@Язепс]

Meters is what I was taught in the U.S. Army.. no just "so european" here :) Both have sight pictures have their merits as I have found Though it's what the shooter perfers When seconds matter The ebr9 mrad sight picture has me being crisp enough for good effects on target

[@Darthdoodoo]

Why doesn't anyone make an etched reticle but just the glass with the reticle and not all the rest. Like a cheap red dot but no batteries or anything just an etched glass reticle. I think they know that if they make what I am thinking about they will be super cheap and everybody will replace red dots and they will lose sales😂😂

[@brandonburg1824]

How about you have a sit down with your quality control department. Pisses me of when I order your product and have to waste my time sending it back while you have my money.

[@KaneGregory]

Take it from me the idiot who had to have the 1-10 for my 556 the one power on the 1-6 is so much better for fast close up work with a 556 I fucked up if you have a Scar 17 get the 1-10 fine but for LPVO for a 223 CQB stuff the Razor 1-6 with the 2nd focal plane is light years better!🤯🔫🛸

[@ZollMisc-c1w]

Jones John Thompson William Clark Donald

[@rosalindwalkman5742]

Garcia Ruth Jackson Jeffrey Johnson Mary

[@dad2817]

Your like a bunch of actors on a talk show that are making points much more convuluted than they need to be.

[@didamnesia3575]

What's crazy is that after all these decades they still think 3500 for a razer gen 3 isn't a complete ripoff. Just thieves.

[@tomjjackson21]

LPVO's are a fad for anything other than a DMR. I love them, and almost run them exclusively. They are so incredibly limiting in many situations though. With the advent of higher magnification, in smaller platforms, they really make a lot of sense in a DMR roll. CQB makes infinitely more sense than 400+ yard engagement. It really makes no sense to limit yourself in close quarters, to be more effective at range. The industry always comes full circle. Well start to see higher magnification, with better ocular capabilities and RDS again. LOPVO's will phase out and be a marksman's optic. Roll around, shoot from the prone while under cover. Tell me that having to get behind an optic isn't prohibiting your abilities.

[@user-uq1kk4mh2n]

u know u can still put a red dot on a gun with an lvpo right? This isn’t call of duty... we arent limited on attachment slots

[@tomjjackson21]

@@user-uq1kk4mh2n click on my profile and you can see a few firearms I own ma'am. After your humbled, if you desire for me to go into my overly detailed original response, I can do so. Now take your Anderson or PSA out ma'am, lay on large belly and educate yourself to your lack of capabilities with a piggybacked optic. Piggybacked optics only serve a purpose with NVG, or CQB with high magnification optics. You'd be required to be a fn peasant, or playing COD to believe your piggybacked optic would be viable in confined/unorthodox shooting angles. Which ironically is what I referred to, multiple times. If you would have focused more on an educated response, and less on your patronizing condescendence, you'd understand shooting under a vehicle with a piggybacked optic is a an impossibility...

[@user-uq1kk4mh2n]

@@tomjjackson21 1) i dont own any anderson or PSA, all my my rifles are Triarc 2) ur guns aren’t anything to brag about, so relax 3) offset dots are more than capable, and they’re not just for NVG Also, how tf are u gonna shit on lvpos for having bad eyeboxs and poor eye relief, then put an acog on ur rifle, makes no sense lol

[@ryanwilson5936]

@@user-uq1kk4mh2n I mean, I don’t have as much time behind my glass as I’d like but in the last few years I’ve learned that acog’s actually kind of suck as an interface. Like you said, how can one complain about the eyebox on LPVO’s then put an acog on their rifle? Lol. I’ve never shot an acog. I don’t ever plan to either. I do really like my Strike Eagle 1-6 though. My stuff isn’t the most expensive and I’m upgrading components as I go but at least I know what I’m buying for it’s application (I try to anyways). I actually clicked on this video to see if they covered LPVO’s (like a 1-4) for shotguns. Seems like it could work out well but I’m still in research phase. I might just put my Romeo 5 red-dot on it. Like I said, not the most expensive but my gear works for me 🤷‍♂️.

[@atkinsatkins153]

Wats w/the headphones??..