VTOL-VR Virtual Reality Dogfight My First Impressions

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

"HUD shirt" Merch Found here: General Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store Hoodie: teespring.com/classic-hoodie-f-16-viper-vs-m?tsmac=store&tsmic=growling-sidewinder-store&pid=212&cid=5819 T-Shirt: teespring.com/classic-t-f-16-vs-mig-19?pid=2&cid=2397

[@dobiem1]

That's a finger for each barrel roll past the tower, yes? I guess Track IR has a mature life now though.

[@yaseen157]

Looool the finger for the ungentlemanly merge 😂

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

If you're going against a 190 in WWII, you wouldn't have the chance to do that :)

[@s3viking214]

I wonder if he can pull a tom cruise

[@lilkris3008]

I always wonder is this even a thing in real life like do fighter pilots actually wait to merge? Do you throw amraams from bvr then when you both run out go merge and use guns lol

[@rdablock]

@@lilkris3008 when the initial missiles miss, they will merge

[@lilkris3008]

@@rdablock is there actually a gentleman agreement like this? Like they have a clear visual but wait till the merge to engage? Seems like if you think your life is really on the line you’re dumping rounds across his nose the second you see him

[@numberyellow]

While the virtual controls are not comfortable to use, at first, and they do take some getting used to, VTOL VR is still a proper simulator. I would argue that the virtual controls are actually a strength, as it removes the barrier for entry, that most simulators have. There's no need to purchase additional peripherals, so that makes it more accessible by more people. The biggest challenges at that point are getting used to the virtual controls, learning how to operate the systems of each aircraft, and, of course learning how to fly them properly. While i would love HOTAS and pedal support, i can understand why they're not there currently.

[@Bomkz]

pedal support has been there for a while now, not quite sure if it was back when you first commented, but it now is. and a proper simulator it is for sure. in a few ways, its more advanced than DCS. Radar mechanics for example, actually take into account what orientation the radar sees your aircraft at. For comparison, in DCS, the radar sees you as a sphere. Although i do wish it had more damage points, like hydraulics, or such.

[@Lucky-be3oq]

Fun fact: BahamutoD is the creator of BD Armory mod in KSP. Well, that's it.

[@DFX2KX]

oh, I did NOT know this. This guy was responsible for many, many ruined assembly buildings. Some where even on purpose.

[@barelmaker]

@@DFX2KX disassembly assemblers

[@theflightguy8726]

It’s not an explosion! It’s unscheduled rapid disassembly!

[@MyLonewolf25]

Fucking good times Good times

[@kaspermichels]

I know I’m late on this but the creator added rudder support and I believe I read that the reason he doesn’t want hotas support is 1 because he built the game for the controller because it is very accurately calculated in 3D space and 2 he did not want a player to need to change a screen and take their hand off a hotas, pick up a controller, mess with the screen, put it back down, then grab the hotas again.

[@SA80TAGE]

if you're using a HOTAS.. you don't take your hands of the HOTAS. Whatever controller gymnastics you're talking about is nothing that anyone would actually do.

[@hyperx72]

@@SA80TAGE There are systems you'll have to take your hand off the stick to toggle, and that's why it's all in VR

[@gdspy]

The radar does not have an elevation control. But it does not just sees everything either. The radar system in VTOL VR has been overhauled to be more realistic. Different factors such as the Doppler effect, ground clutter, and radar cross-section come into play when you or the enemy are trying to detect and lock targets. You'll also need to consider that your radar emissions can be detected by others much further (via RWR) than your receiver can detect returns.

[@BlameeeJay]

5:16 Had me dying🤣”Thats what you get for shooting at the merge”

[@johnn1250]

That should be a meme or be used in some sort of way for those BS moments.

[@amkessel2014]

I want that on a t-shirt. I’d buy that merch.

[@RS-xx8gz]

IM DEAD!

[@sam-nariman6236]

😂😂😂

[@Reaper_03-01]

Dude, that was priceless.

[@MrChaosProf]

Hey Wags, do you listen? How much do we have to pay you to put a middle finger animation in DCS? XD

[@GabrieleNunnari]

To be honest, I do love this game. It is really just a game that take lot of liberty, but it is so good to just sit on your chair, put the VR on, controller in your hand and... fly and have fun. It is relaxing, not overwelming in term of things to learn, but still give you some interaction that make it feel like you are actively doing something. I hope that the guy that develope it will get some help and expand this game, because it really deserve more and I do love it. I would also love to see a space simulator with this kind of controls and interactive cockpits =)

[@zblazek2]

For space sim, just grab Elite Dangerous in VR! :)

[@Vespyr_]

I mean flat out what this game did, was create, three unique machines. It is a simulator, in the sense that it's simulating three fictional vehicles. The VR controls are amazing. The feeling of actually having a machine at your hands, and not a vr controller, not a headset, but an aircraft, even a simple one is amazing. Like this machine doesn't exist, but you can touch it and have to learn it. It has properties and I mean he created a full on OSD for each plane. Like he created a virtual plane for you to fly. With their own avionics and weapons systems based on their generation. It's phenomenal imo.

[@Croznyj]

For me who is just starting out with flight sims in general, this game has enough challenge and depth to hook me in and start learning.

[@Degenevesting]

VTOL is my main sim. VR has taken massive steps up recently.

[@catmousedog4885]

You flipping them off for shooting at the merge was really funny xD Great video as usual!

[@MyFlightTV1]

VTOL VR is being coded by one guy. Considering that... it’s pretty amazing. It’s really fun for what it is. Try to master air refueling in it... it’s a blast once you get it down.

[@RTSchramm]

I agree with most of your video, but it was playing VTOL VR that got me interested in playing DCS. Note that VTOL VR only has one developer where as DCS has over 50 or more. Another point is that you only touched on the air to air combat, and the game focuses on ground attack in most of the missions. What the game does do very well is to teach the basics of managing an aircraft and it’s weapon system while avoiding SAM etc. The air to ground weapon systems are also similar to the way DSC works, but with less fidelity in their configuration. Most of the VTOL VR players I talked to called this simulator” DCS lite”. The game comes with a very sophisticated mission and campaign level like DCS. I found that the missile and SAM physics are close to that of DCS too, in that all of the tactics used against missiles in DCS also work in VROL VR. I think this that the game needs to be better optimized for VR because I can get better frame rates and graphics in DSC VR. I also agree that I prefer playing DCS VR because of the ability to use physical controllers. But VTOL VR is a great introduction to those would like to experience air combat with a minimum learning curve. Also forgot to mention that the game has excellent voice communications built in.

[@mikuzoid]

ED said they recently expanded their manpower to 160, so yea they have a lot more people lol.

[@no-kf8yy]

We need a feature where you can make gestures in the cockpit. The days of flares are over when you have a middle finger emote.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thats the only thing we need in DCS

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

TOMCATS!

[@carterdubose540]

There are emotes in VTOL

[@SA80TAGE]

@@carterdubose540 he's talking about DCS.

[@vaele723]

"I don't know... it seems to be more of a game than a real flight simulator..." That's literally the point. While it's not trying to be Ace Combat, it's not trying to be DCS either, and I hope it will never be. Because if I want to play DCS in VR, I'll play DCS in VR instead. This game straddles a good line between the likes of Strike Fighters 2 and Digital Combat Simulator without going too far on either end. In fact, I think it's actually most similar to Strike Fighters 2 now that I think about it. Anyway, despite your minor and unfair judgement, I still enjoyed the video. Liked!

[@bro26mohw]

Ah yes. An unfair judgement for saying what it is.

[@vaele723]

@@bro26mohw The "unfair judgement" part came from the comparison with DCS. I didn't make that clear enough in the original comment. Apologies if I ticked you off, it's not my intention. I was simply a bit irritated with the constant collation this "purposely arcadey simulator" VR game gets with a full-blown military flight simulator.

[@daviddanielbaynas5166]

@@bro26mohw "Quantify" in the comment section goes into more depth why the comparison with Digital Combat Simulator was a bit unreasonable.

[@pleasantlymixed5860]

My vr headset arrives in 2 days and this is the 1st vr game I'm gonna play, I'm glad it doesnt fully commit to being a simulator.

[@happymealchiz]

@@pleasantlymixed5860 steam summer sale started today; great time to buy some vr games

[@patrickdunn7225]

I think where this game excels is the air to ground component. It's nice they throw in a bogey or two, but I love flipping switching sending off HARMs, SDBs and mavericks while looking through my night vision helmet mounted display & blaring metal over the mp3 player. I really wanted to get better with DCS, but the simplicity of starting VTOL VR while retaining many esoteric aviation and weapon features made it my go to with a spare couple hours. If I have more time than that, I end up going to the airport for actually flying.

[@380fade]

I tried DCS and it's cool but I'd rather VTOL VR. It's simple and fun to play. You have to learn how to fly but not as hard as DCS. Some folks take this video game too serious.

[@goose1146]

VTOL VR is definitely a light weight simulator but i think it’s amazing for getting people into flight sims but does have lots of real effects like the RWR, radar, the aerodynamics, TGP, takeoff and landings

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

So these are some of my very first dogfights in VTOL-VR, and I will admit that for a VR game its pretty impressive, but if you're going to compare it to DCS than its not there, but thats not really what the Deves of this game were going for and I think they've created a really cool little product where you can really have some fun in a VR environment, deff not trying to knock the game but at the end of the day its more of a game than a sim, and the principles of BFM/dogfighting and stuff do still apply, but its not as detailed and "realistic" as DCS. Just my 2 cents, Hope you guys enjoyed the video thank you for watching.

[@epicjourneyman2145]

It's a fun game and I think it's really not that far off from having something like a "simulator mode" where we can combine HOTAS support in that mode with the VR controller support for the more casual gamer. Nobody would use the VR controllers in sim mode, it's like using a cool joystick in Mechwarrior Online...yes, it seems cool but there is no way to compete with someone using a mouse and keyboard (That game is really fun in VR by the way, though it doesn't have native support for it). Nice flying with the VR controls! I tried in DCS but you can't fight that way yet because it's just too wonky.

[@flightsimstuff5417]

I really enjoyed it. Kind of Kerbal Space Program-like. Would enjoy it more if I could use my HOTAS. I. Just. Can't. Adapt.

[@gergleshmerf3544]

@@flightsimstuff5417 the person who made VTOL VR was a former KSP modder, most famous for the BD armoury mod

[@GuyFromJupiter]

I haven't started DCS yet, but I'm loving this game. It's pretty simple compared to DCS obviously, but it definitely isn't an arcade game the way Ace Combat is. I think it kind of sits in a position sort of like Forza horizon compared to racing sims. It has some realistic elements, but it's dumbed down so it doesn't require any sort of dedication to enjoy.

[@billwells7464]

I think your comparisons are spot-on. And I agree with your conclusion as well. It's just plane fun. ;-)

[@BringTheRain]

The review we needed, but didn't know we deserved! I've been eyeing this title for some time, and from the Drewski videos it seemed pretty cool. Appreciate the perspective, looks like it's worth it! Also - laughed out LOUD when your first concern about the fictional aircraft was not knowing what the max rate speed is, because *of course it would be.* hahahaha

[@Vespyr_]

This game impresses the hell out of me. If you're even an basic enthusiast in flight sims, and have a headset, it's a no brainer. I dare say its a system seller imo.

[@chichan4127]

aw hell yeah, i was literally pondering how in depth the dogfighting went in vtol vr last night lol

[@chichan4127]

oh by the way (if you see this) theres info on the vtol vr discord about the plugin that lets you use physical HOTAS for controlling the plane in vr

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

ivyflame I’ll have a look boss thanks for letting me know

[@crushfruits2660]

@@chichan4127 To be honest, I dont believe VTOL VR would work as well with a hotas. Vtol vr is about immersion and immersion for people like myself can be very easily broken if I have to let go of my VR controller to use a hotas.

[@SA80TAGE]

@@crushfruits2660 I find it less immersive to constantly be holding the controllers, gimme a tactile stick and throttle anyday. I don't like the feeling that I'm removing my stick from it's housing and holding on to it everytime I push a cockpit button. DCS not only works with both, but also without controllers and can track hands.

[@OmerMazaltarim]

"Masterjay and I have a gentelmen's agreement for no head-on shots"~G.S. I guess this one was no MasterJay and he had that bird coming in 5:10. Gave me a good laugh

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

i love that you guys can quote other videos, insane to see the community grown to that level. Love u buddy.

[@Kay_213_]

“Oh no” -Growling Sidewinder From the aim-9x vid

[@javierherrera179]

Have you ever jumped back into VTOL VR? It's got electronic warfare now, and a dual sitter tomcat-like aircraft that specializes on EW.

[@lowtech5380]

I was waiting for the dump of flares after the kill, but the good ole single finger salute did the trick nicely.

[@malo59]

The radar does have elevation control now. You can enable it in the radar OPT tab.

[@JelmerSt]

I LOL'ed at the "Oh he's gonna shoot in the meeeerge...." Nice video man, I like the realism of DCS over the VR immersion of this game. :D

[@Aralmo640]

Point of not allowing for hotas is that it is an advantage, so that would force every other player to use one too. I totally agree with them on that.

[@Hotdawgfilms]

It would actually be a disadvantage because you'd have to take you hand off the stick and pick up a controller every time you need to hit a button in the cockpit

[@SA80TAGE]

explain how it's a advantage then?

[@lukas-ds3cm]

At least in my opinion, this less formal, less serious, funnier version of growling sidewinder is epic

[@Groucho14E]

Twenty years ago, this would've been a jaw-dropping "flight simulator". In a world which contains DCS, it's "game-y". I guess it's all relative. I can't imagine trying to use VR controllers as my stick and throttle, but you know what? I'm impressed that the cockpit and systems look as much like the real F-15's as they do. The whole thing looks like fun. If I had VR I'd be buying this right now.

[@op3l]

Rofl, the bird. That’s something they need to add to DCS for when Feisty just won’t behave lol

[@robihobby9490]

For VR , it is a must have ! it´s OK and more an action Flight sim . 😊

[@Transit21]

Lol we need that middle finger salute as a menu option within DCS

[@amkessel2014]

“And that’s what you get for shooting at the merge” 🤣🤣🤣

[@akcsamiru]

For the vr controls, there are certain set ups that u can buy that makes them work like a stick and throttle

[@UkDave3856]

It's a great game, and it was my gateway into DCS VR, which is amazing

[@kylaneville]

I really want more vtol vr

[@npc6817]

Hey it might not be a full sim but one thing it's amazkng for is getting your start in the world of flight simulators. Itried for years to get a friend of mine to play dcs and only finally did (thanks to top gun maverick), but I feel it would've been way easier if I could've just popped him in my oculus and have him get his feet wet there instead of a powerpoint presentation on the basics of aereodinamics and essential fa18 systems.

[@kornykidd0]

Not sure how you’re setting yourself up to do the flying, but I find you’ve got to be sitting first of all. After that if you rest the bottom point of the controller on your thigh for the stick and parallel to the ground on your thigh for the throttle you can use your legs more or less as pivot points for the controls. Makes controlling the jet far easier and smoother than just waggling the controls in the air. Good video as always.

[@cpfpv6410]

the one finger solute was worth the watch. lol and the bobble head on the dash got a chuckle too

[@paulf1389]

That was funny GS. You had me laughing so much.

[@clankilpatrick4417]

cool and thanks for doing this. i wasn't expecting a sim experience at all, and it seems like a decently good game. not that you have a lot of time, but might be nice to give it a few more tries to see if you can become comfortable with the VR controllers enough to enjoy it.

[@imajoke6863]

5:18 There’s is some deep resentment

[@jazzdirt]

Here's me wishing I could fly DCS with just motioncontrollers and rudder pedals.. And I do own a HOTAS, but I find it way more immersive doing everything with your hands. If you have a fixed place to rest your arm you have enough precision...

[@wildcicc6528]

hey! i love your content please make more vtol vr videos!!!

[@rorypullman]

So I know the main complaint has been not being able to use a hotas but now that is an option along with some other very nice mods. Would love to see another impression video.

[@ryanp5790]

Listening to how morally disturbed he was when he was hit in the merge, I could heavily relate

[@evilboy3521]

Hey that channel icon reminds me of the *Canton-Protocol Strategic Alliance Treaty* special purpose *Viper* unit.

[@223frankthetank]

My only gripe is the fact that you didn’t use the center stick! It makes control much better. And honestly, it seems you don’t have much practice in the game. It’s not a full on simulator like DCS but many aspects apply to both and concepts learned in one can be used in the other. Overall it’s great fun and you can decide wether to play seriously or as a game. I’m looking forward to this games future and whenever MP gets added. Then I think it can really prosper even more.

[@coollkingbob7756]

You actually can, though.

[@223frankthetank]

@@coollkingbob7756 indeed why I said you didn’t use, not you can’t use 🙂

[@mattalford3932]

They completely updated the sim for proper electronic warfare. Its awesome. The mischief is awesome too.

[@christianarboleda7872]

Finally you played this game

[@blainebrixey6264]

“Keeping up foreign relations”. Best dogfight I’ve seen if only for that reason. 🤣

[@mathieu2109]

You should come back to this, hotas compatibility is a thing now, multi-player is hilarious, and you can turn off flight assists

[@steeltribe3967]

Nice video. I bought this to support the dev and play it regularly as I think it is quite amazing. If it had HOTAS support I would play more often. DCS need to pay attention as the interaction with the buttons is well handled. Add hand tracking from the Oculus and this would already be something special. I think the dev should start a crowdfunding page. Considering how much I have spent on DCS and the hardware it required for average (at best) VR performance, I think the market is open for the taking.

[@xXxXENcoreXxXx]

just to mention your (Flight Assist) is ON you have to turn the Master assist OFF located on the top left from the throttle stick.

[@xmlthegreat]

Ahh my eyes went crazy at the start trying to guess what the aircraft was from the silhouette! Didn't know they have to make fictional aircraft, but it is reasonable since the manufacturers night not have given permission. At the end I can see elements of the F-22, the F-15 and some parts at the back look like the Hornet.

[@studlyhungwell5740]

OMG-- He fired at the merge !?? How funny...I love your videos man I have watched your dogfighting ability increase. You have become accustomed to Waiting until the Merge to begin the fight....but in real life he would be looking to gun your ass from as far away as possible. We used to call it Chicken range. With both of you closing on each other (+800 kts) That 20mm cannon can really reach out, and touch someone.

[@FalconsLedge]

You actually get used to the virutal sticks after a while

[@billwells7464]

I've only got about 6 hours in-game, and I have to agree. It doesn't take too long for the brain to figure out what the hands need to do. The G-force warnings and visual feedback aren't a substitute for force-feedback, but for this title they get the job done.

[@johnbingham9241]

Really ❤ this video, especially when you flipped off that dude. 💯

[@Spacebaryonyx]

the f/a26 is a futuristic mix on f15 and f/a18

[@Alex96194]

The middle finger though 😂😂😂😂

[@DerekSpeareDSD]

i'm diggin the sunshade option!

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

You can even get your SA displayed to that HMCS or see the TGP image on it :)

[@Jawz4devils]

I actually like the idea of in game controls. Not sure how you go about hitting buttons in the cockpit without them tbh

[@yesyes-om1po]

I'd recommend changing the joystick to a more natural flight stick in the plane settings, the joystick ur using is more suited for helicopters and vtols than fighters.

[@veius5487]

You can control the radar elevation in the ah-94

[@treeamble585]

GS: I hope you learned your lesson about reversing your turn when in front of the bandit Bandit:Aaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

[@jerros1715]

The bird flinging was the best part, should be moded into DCS for sure

[@networkgeekstuff9090]

If you want to know what this game is best for for me as flight + VR guy? It is for getting my non-flight sim friends, that actually do have VR, to play with me :D. For a non-hardcore sim people this is great entry point game to get them hooked to flying. And for your average people out there, even these avionics are complicated. So for me a great sweet-spot game in my opinion.

[@christopherwilliamhovdan6929]

It was a different video but I like it. Hope you are doing well and keep up the good work. I made my day. :)

[@xXMc1ovinXx]

when u said *and hes gunna shoot me on the merge, what are you doooiinnnnnngg* gave me a good chuckle

[@Drower]

One advantage of VR controllers, perhaps not so much for modern fighter jets, is that you can get the stick in a more realistic position and with a more realistic length.

[@Bordz_92]

Gotta love the immersion though. Night flights are amazing.

[@Taternader]

If you do plan to continue playing Vtol VR I do believe that you can use a external input for yaw. So you should be able to use your pedals to control the yaw

[@RCnerd74]

That finger is good enough to love that fighter jet game ;o)

[@ArthurCentrino]

like a real dogfight video that is very entertaining.

[@faithfullyled4538]

Totally need the middle finger capability in DCS!! 😂😂 that was epic!!

[@BadAtWarThunder2006]

Kinda want to see more of this

[@dedensanusi9305]

Hahahaha.... Bandit : bang bang bang shooting on the merge.. GS : now he is on my six su**er.. fox 4 gun gun gun.. that because you shooting me on the merge !

[@BraidenRobson]

valve index?

[@drainis]

"definitely something better like battlefield" that is the understatement of the century. I think your points are fair but it seems like you weren't very experienced with your controllers and the game at the same time

[@Name-ps9fx]

If this could be combined with DCS (must have hotas and DCS level of graphics/fm etc), that would be awwwwesome!! “International relations” could then happen as in the “Gospel according to Top Gun!”

[@Porkleaker]

CCS think they''re better than everyone else.

[@chrisdouglas4427]

Loved the Finger dude!! Classic lol

[@Bane_Diesel]

My friend has a complete racing sim setup with 3 27" monitors. I brought over my f-14 stick and throttle. I still couldn't get used to it only ever playing dcs in vr. This looks like fun for getting people used to vr flight. I am guessing that all of the controls are easy on the eyes unlike looking at an f-18 screen or the gauges in the tomcat? Whenever I fly the f-18 for more than a few hours I get a bit of eye strain.

[@chiechie9090]

Gotta use center stick for the 26. Makes control a lot better. Also, im curious how the ATG combat compares.

[@lucaspolodeoliveira3851]

ksks you are the best pilot... Top Gun

[@Merchantofwar]

the f/a 26 in vtol vr is modeled after the f/a 18 i believe, and the f45 is modeled after the f35

[@SuperJeb98]

Are the plane max speeds in DCS hard coded, or is that the physics engine making correct calculations based on flight data or somethin

[@ricbish]

It is more of a game than DCS for sure! It’s a lot of fun though! That helicopter is really fun but hard to control. I think it just takes practice as does anything! I wish DCS had the same type of hands in VR to where you can use your hands to input things in the cockpit! Fun video though! Thx for making it!

[@FalconsLedge]

I do VTOL VR videos on my channel, and I think VTOL VR is a good bridge between the "games"(ace combat) and simulators (DCS). Its a fun game.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Well that’s exactly it if you know ur just getting a fun game then ya by all means.

[@FalconsLedge]

@@GrowlingSidewinder I actually think it will bring more people to DCS.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Falcons Ledge I hope you’re right man

[@GristlyDread]

You should try some fox 2 and fox 3 fights in this... there is a lot of fun to be had and I think you’ll enjoy the bvr in this game! Also off boresight fox 2s are really cool in this game!

[@jeffjefferson5095]

This game has mods that allows you to use HOTAS, and do multiplayer battles.

[@carltanner9065]

I had to laugh when you gave them the "bird" :) :P I thought that was really funny :) Looks OK, but it needs a lot more spit and polish before it really becomes good. Though, for a start it doesn't look too bad :) Mind you, next time, before the merge, fill their face with amraams!!! : P

[@samhoff1724]

This looks awesome. I think I might get it. Definitely not a simulator but it reminds me of my first semi realistic fighter jet game: modded kerbal space program. In fact the guy who made the mod made this game and a lot of the assets are shared.

[@rcyrus2289]

The F-26 is supposed to be like the F15 and the F45 was supposed to be the F35

[@atrumluminarium]

Compared to dcs, I believe vtol actually models the aircraft's rcs as it chances based on the angle it's facing

[@ChadGatling]

If you rest the controller on your arm rest it is exactly like a flight stick.

[@SA80TAGE]

my flight seat doesn't have arm rests kiddo.

[@ChadGatling]

@@SA80TAGE I guess you'll have to shut up

[@ace7_skies_unknown207]

The middle finger was personal 💀