Wargaming The Wars of the Roses

Welcome to my video on how I set about wargaming in the Wars of the Roses. This isn’t a history video but more of a quick-ish (30 mins isn’t that quick I know) look at the options if you want to get into this period of wargaming.
I have split the video into the following sections:
0:00 Intro
3:23 I. The Armies
16:07 II. The Rules
21:28 III. The Models
24:17 IV. The Flags
28:18 V. Research
Check out the following companies for the various rulesets:
Hail Caesar: store.warlordgames.com/collec...
Never Mind the Billhooks: www.wargamesillustrated.net/p...
Lion Rampant: ospreypublishing.com/lion-ram...
Test of Resolve: testofresolve.com/?v=79cba118...
Impetus: www.dadiepiombo.it/english-imp...
Mortem et Glorium: mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/meg/
Companies making models for the WOTR:
28mm
Perry Miniatures: www.perry-miniatures.com/prod...
Front Rank: www.frontrank.com/product-cat...
1st Corp: 1stcorps.co.uk/product-catego...
Athena Miniatures: www.athenaminiatures.co.uk/Wa...
Steel Fist: www.steelfistminiatures.com/p...
Foundry: www.wargamesfoundry.com/colle...
6mm
Baccus: www.baccus6mm.com/catalogue/L...
10mm
Pendraken: www.pendraken.co.uk/late-euro...
15mm
Peter Pig: www.peterpig.co.uk/WOTR.html
Books and Research:
Matt Lewis: www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1...
Dan Jones: www.amazon.co.uk/Hollow-Crown...
Graham Evans: www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Edgco...
Mike Ingram: www.amazon.co.uk/Richard-Batt...
Rick Priestlys Army List on Perry Miniatures FB Page: / 2053407751447987
images:
The Battle of Tewkesbury, as illustrated in the Ghent manuscript (PD)
Map for the Battle of Towton 1889 Ramsay, James Henry (1892)
Music: Lord of the Land - Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Contact: [e-mail]

[@BigMrFirebird]

As the author of one of those books featured on screen near the end of this clip I'd just like to point out that there were no such thing as bill blocks in the WotR. The best quote from the period regarding fighting formations is "Everye bowe with a bill at his bak" which means front line of archers supported by a second rank of billmen, acting as mobile stakes for the archers. When it came to handstrokes, the ranks would swap and archers could continue to shoot (the term "fire" comes from musketry, not archery) through the billmen at lethal short range until the arrows ran out. It was this short range shooting that killed James IV of Scotland at Flodden where the English bill and bow tactics hadn't changed.

[@7thson726]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment, greatly appreciated. I don't think i referred to bill blocks but i may be mistaken. I do mix my bill and bow units up to represent the potentially mixed formations but leave them on separate bases so if i ever use them for games that require that distinction, they can be used. One of the main problems is representing the warfare of the period while still having it playable as a game. May i ask which book? Not a problem of you don't want to say. I'm going to be adding some more content in the future on some specific WotR topics and it would be great to have some extra input.

[@BigMrFirebird]

@@7thson726 It has to be said that your presentation to this theme is excellent and gives anyone with an interest to the period a clear idea overall. My comment about bill blocks is reactionary to just about every set of rules created about the period, including the latest. I think the concept of bill blocks has been influenced by units of Swiss halberds, pike blocks in general and taken on board by re-enactment groups who tend to have more bills than bows because it's cheaper, there's less skill involved and it's viewed as more fun to "fight" rather than just shoot away. The reality is that archers were paid more than billmen, and that had to be for a good reason. Another issue of note is the use of Burgundian troops in the WotR: since they were not in the employ of the dukes of Burgundy at that time, they were hardly likely to be wearing their livery. But gamers can't resist the temptation of adding that little bit of extra visual spice to their armies. As for which book, let's just say it's one of those smaller books you feature. :)

[@henrywarnell7694]

“The great thing is - everyone’s a bit of a bastard.” As good a recommendation as any. 👍🏻

[@7thson726]

That's the way haha 😁

[@user-oc4mj1wu8p]

Not really interested in the War of the Roses but you came on and were so enthusiastic that I listened to the whole show whilst painting my Mongols . More please

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much, I'm glad you enjoyed it 👍 I've often thought about doing Mongols but already have so many projects on the go 😁

[@macdansav1546]

Loads of information and infectious enthusiasm. Many thanks. Another advantage of the Wars the Roses as a period of study is the fact that the main events and battles took place for the most part in England and Wales. This allows you to visit many of the actual battle fields (such as Towton and Wakefield) and castles. Northumberland is a great place to start! :)

[@7thson726]

This is very true and something that I'd always encourage people to do as it can give great inspiration for games and terrain. Im glad you enjoyed the video mate 👍

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

Brilliant and highly informative video. Already picked up the Mathew Lewis book as my reluctance to do yet ANOTHER army for yet another set of rules starts to wane. Plan to pick up the Richard III Bosworth too, will likely go the Perry route for figures and this has been really helpful.

[@7thson726]

Really pleased you found it useful, appreciate you taking the time to comment. The Bosworth book is excellent 👍

[@BattleMatt]

Really good. I got really mixed up when I started with all the different rules requiring different bases, rules for casualties, etc... In the end I just based how I wanted to and the rules will just have to be adapted. One of my biggest issues with wargaming is every system seems to insist on reinventing the wheel on bases.

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate 👍 i agree about the basing, thats why I've just gonne and done whatwver i want and then jusy make those rules suit my basing

[@Vonfluff]

This was EXACTLY what I was looking for - thank you. I'm trying to get into WotR in 10mm but I needed some background and recommendations for rules etc.

[@7thson726]

Really pleased you found it useful. Stuart over on the Miniature Realms channel is doing his WOTR project in 10mm but using the adaptations I've made for Hail Caesar, definitely worth checking out 👍

[@bravemendiedhereuk3597]

Really useful video; thank you. The advice on sourcing flags, rules, etc was really useful. Very much appreciated. I'll be back to watch more vids!

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much, really appreciate you taking the time to watch 👍

[@tabletop.will.phillips]

That's really impressive detail brushwork of the arms of the Earl of Essex on the figure himself. But overall, really great overview!

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 👍

[@stevetimjim8534]

What a great video. Thanks. Very inspired to start a project once my waterloo project hits its target later this year. Love the fact that you covered lots of practical aspects of how to make a start 👍😁😎

[@7thson726]

Cheers buddy, its a great period to get into. Glad you liked the video 👍😁

[@ausmozzy]

Well done Martin, I can see your enthusiasm for the subject is inspiring lots of people :-)

[@7thson726]

Thanks buddy 😀 i probably get a bit over excited about it all at times haha

[@brushworx3232]

Fantastic guide Martin, thank you for all the effort you put in to making a great video for what is a huge and tricky subject for the newbie. Also love the podcast.

[@7thson726]

Really appreciate that, thank you 👍😁

[@robertcanavan2675]

Well done on another fantastic video ,this is one I think I shall watch a few times , brilliant for beginners and veterans too,and yes you inspired me to wargame WAR OF THE ROSES,using Never Mind Bilhooks rules 👍👍

[@7thson726]

Cheers buddy, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍

[@tonytiger9116]

Great tutorial on army building for the period, love your base arrangement 👏

[@7thson726]

Glad you like them mate, i love basing and this way works perfectly for me for practical reasons and to let me be a bit creative with the bases themselves 👍

[@MillersMiniatures]

Cracking job on this mate. Well thought out well organised. Really good introduction for someone. Nice one mate 😁👍

[@7thson726]

Thanks buddy, , really appreciate that 😁

[@TheRendar]

Awesome video ! You’ve convinced me to do War of the Roses armies as well lol . Great starter guide video on how to get stuck in . Keep up the great content.

[@7thson726]

Awesome 😁 mission successful. 👍

[@paulspaintshed3511]

Absolutely fantastic video mate. Very informative and really liking how you put your units together. Tempted to do another WoR army myself.

[@7thson726]

Cheers bud, really pleased you enjoyed it. Hey, the more the merrier, at this rate we'll be able to re create Towton man for man 👍😁

[@paladinpariah325]

This brought my Wars of the Roses gaming to a whole new level. Thanks for awesome content.

[@7thson726]

Really pleased you enjoyed it and found it useful 😁

[@peternicholson8049]

Really helpful summary and also up to date which is appreciated.

[@7thson726]

Pleased you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 👍

[@CullodenPaintingStudio]

Great stuff - your passion for the period comes through in droves here Martin! I reckon you should consider hitting up Wargames Illustrated and see if your house rules and list could make an article for them.

[@7thson726]

Thank you buddy, i really appreciate that. Its a period that i really enjoy gaming, researching and sharing 😁

[@Recursion_TwistingNether]

Really enjoyed this little summary! Thank you! Really helpful!

[@7thson726]

You're very welcome mate, cheers 👍

[@paulbenson9015]

Great job Martin, ticks all the boxes, Very well done👍

[@7thson726]

Appreciate it mate, thanks 👍

[@BattleBunkerHQ]

Great video Martin, very informative mate, we always enjoy your Wars of the Roses videos. It’s a period that’s always peeked my interest, but have never found a set of rules I liked to game with. Maybe we will have to take another look at it, once a couple of projects are finished first 😂. Take care mate 👍

[@7thson726]

Cheers buddy, glad you liked it. As a period it gives you alot of scope and with the different systems on offer you can really go as big as you'd like 😁

[@MiniatureRealms]

Awesome video Martin, super helpful and one that will definitely be returned to for reference.

[@7thson726]

Glad it helped mate, feel free to ask anything if i didn't cover it 👍

[@andrewjeffrey7940]

Love this approach and video - mixing in collecting with historical research - an ECW or Napoleonic would be great, but takes away time from the battle report and other updates which are great too! Thanks for the bibliography at the end - looks like a few more things on the Christmas list. I think I've listened to talks by Mike Ingram either via the Battlefields Trust or Northamptonshire Battlefield Society and they have always been very interesting so suspect his books are a fountain of knowledge too.

[@7thson726]

He does some great historic walks around Northampton, really intresting. I'm thinking of one on th ECW but you're right, need tonget the battle reports in as well 😁

[@MedievalWargamer]

Brilliant video Martin! Great explanation of how to game WOR!

[@7thson726]

Cheers Nik, really pleased you enjoyed it mate 😁👍

[@kitchenwargamers4141]

Fantastic informative video covering the period. Nice one thanks 😁👍

[@7thson726]

Cheers bud, glad you enjoyed it 👍

[@thelonelybolter8245]

You channel got me excited to paint my Hundred Years War project, cheers and thank you!

[@7thson726]

Thats awesome, i keep looking at the 100 yrs war, glad you enjoy the channel 😁

[@chriskay284]

Really enjoyed the video. I have been painting figures off and on for years without any real goal. Very impressed with your figures. Good luck to you.

[@7thson726]

Really appreciate you checking out the video and taking the time to comment 👍

[@mobileandhostile7895]

⭐️ a period of history that has always fascinated me and your enthusiasm for the subject is infectious…thoroughly enjoyed it and might have a look at some of those books you mention ⭐️ thanks for taking the time to make this 👍

[@7thson726]

Hey, no problem, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍

[@mobileandhostile7895]

@@7thson726 …..so….months and several boxes of Perry plastics later….and it’s all your fault !! 😅….but a couple of questions…. (1) many of your bases have five figures on them yet Never Mind The Billhooks has six man units….how do you make that work ?…. (2) I am not on FB - is there a site I can go to with your WOTR rule adaptations for Hail Caesar ?

[@7thson726]

@@mobileandhostile7895 haha thats good to hear 😁 So for Billhooks i simply count each base as 6 men no matter how many are on it, and i use wound tokens instead of removing casualties. Each token represents a dead warrior and i adjust the dice accordingly 👍 The Hail Caesar rules are available here drive.google.com/file/d/1qQC-2M9NQO1nN89HuAZ1AN7DjVOpya4q/view?usp=drivesdk

[@mobileandhostile7895]

@@7thson726 ⭐️That you not only took the time to reply but also provided the link to your rule mods totally made my day so a huge thankyou 👍 I don’t paint as fast as you but at some point this year my troops will get posted online and I shall be crediting you as having got me fired up and learning as much as I can about the period….in the meantime I’ll carry on enjoying your WOTR battle reports Was there a specific size for artillery bases ? ⭐️

[@7thson726]

@@mobileandhostile7895 no problem at all 😁 For artillery in tend to use whatever will fit well and not make the base crowded 👍

[@worldhistoryminiatureshous9757]

Great video . Your cavalry is superb . Bravo

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 👍

[@Clyde7709]

Interesting vid. Thanks for sharing. It was good to see the books. I have wotr at a couple of scales and knowing which resources to part with cash for isn't easy. Richard iii and the battle of Bosworth looks like the answers to the questions that have been noodling me.

[@7thson726]

Hey, glad you liked it. I can highly recommend the Bosworth book its excellent 👍

[@oldschoolfrp2326]

Fantastic overview, very thorough

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 👍😁

[@frankdoyle3716]

Fantastic info! Thanks for taking the time.

[@7thson726]

Glad it was helpful 👍😁

[@joeokabayashi8669]

Excellent vid - very informative for gaming!

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 👍

[@LawHawk-pu3is]

Fantastic overview! Really helpful.

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate, glad you liked it 😁

[@3dWargamer]

Nice one martin very helpful great video. Really look forward to having a force soon.

[@7thson726]

Cheers bud, look forward to seeing you on the battlefield 😁

[@andrewfuller9337]

Just caught this video and found it very interesting, even though I began gaming the Wars of the Roses in 1981. My main armies these days are Peter Pig 15mm and I also use their Bloody Barons rules. However I have recently bought Test of Resolve and Never Mind the Bill hooks Deluxe, as well as some Perry boxes for the latter. Glad you mentioned the Peter Pig figures at the end of your figure review. Pete's Flags also does some 15mm versions of his WotR flags.

[@7thson726]

Glad you found it interesting, I have some Peter Pig bits and bobs but almost everything I do is in 28mm these days 👍

[@WinstonAbRees]

Very useful summary mate. Wish more people did these - please, please can you do an ECW one? I’m just starting!

[@7thson726]

Thanks buddy 👍 i could do one on the ECW 🤔 i have a few ideas on how i would do it, watch this space 😁

[@moghobbystuff]

Really interesting and well presented, thank you!

[@7thson726]

Appreciate that thanks 😁👍

[@YorikKurland]

Great! To my shame, I should have studied your channel first before asking you questions. Excellent work!

[@7thson726]

No worries at all, im glad you found it helpful, still one of my favourite videos that i've made 👍

[@matthewhogg5861]

Great initiative and well covered

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate 👍

[@paulcarson140]

Very inspiring stuff, Martin. Made me get out my old 15mm WoR armies for a refurb. On relevant literature I would not ignore and I thoroughly recommend some good historical fiction on the period. The kind of stuff that add flesh to the bare historical bones and with a good author it all becomes very plausible. For example; Conn Igguldon's four part series and Sharon Penman's The Sunne in Splendour. Keep up the good work and maybe you could share your Hail Caesar modifications and the campaign system you end up using. Best Regards Paul C (Staines Wargamers)

[@7thson726]

Cheers mate, glad you enjoyed it Have to agree, i particularly would recommend the Kingmaker series by Toby Clements. As with all. Historical fiction there are a few things left out or changed but definitely inspiring and well worth checking out 👍😁

[@welshwargamer2066]

awesome video and beautiful models!!

[@7thson726]

Appreciate it mate thanks 👍

[@blecao]

I love a quote about the english army (a bit later on Henry VIII) on Osprey that say that a italian commented there wasnt enougth heavy cavalry and most of the english heavy cavalry where demilancers You know old osprey not reliable but i laugthed hard since it was at the time of the Gendarmes

[@7thson726]

Haha that's ace 👍

[@BrushQuill]

Just got round to watching this. Really interesting video and a great "start collecting".

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it 👍

[@norm977]

Thank you. Very interesting and I picked up a few ideas for my project.

[@7thson726]

Awesome 👍 cheers mate

[@bernardspencer9876]

That was very help full, if you are starting out

[@7thson726]

Thanks 👍😁

[@edwardstabletoparmies955]

Thanks to your good self my Waterloo campaign armies project, ACW project, AWI project, Rorke's Drift project, Victory at Sea project, have all been added to by a Wars of the Roses project. I got the free rules on Never Mind the Billhooks with Wargames Illustrated magazine and put them away on a shelf and then you come along and whet my appetite! Yorkist and Lancastrian armies (solo gamer) are now completed but I have decided to add some troops in the livery of the Earl of Warwick as well because I find him a fascinating character. I intend to play NMTB but your battle reports using Hail Caeser have prompted me to buy that rule set as well so I will use both sets when gaming.

[@7thson726]

Really pleased you like it, glad it helped 👍😁

[@WarGamingNewbHistorical]

Great breakdown. Might just have to do some WoTR Hail Caesar. Thanks for doing this.

[@7thson726]

You're very welcome, glad you enjoyed it 😁

[@frankmueller2781]

The old boardgame "King Maker" is a great campaign engine for WotR.

[@7thson726]

Very true, I've had a few people say that 👍

[@billygoatwargaming5643]

That is a great video. Changed how I'm organising my figures based on this 😃

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much, glad you found it useful 👍

[@basicminiaturepainting]

Very enjoyable Martin

[@7thson726]

Cheers bud 👍

[@BootsontheTable]

Excellent Martin. Very useful indeed

[@7thson726]

Cheers mate, looking forward to seeing your force, couple if days and you should have it done right? 😁

[@BootsontheTable]

@@7thson726 yeah obviously

[@airnt]

Only now did i realize that my good friend Dr Tobias Capwell jousts under a recoloured version of sir Robert brackenburys coat of arms (Toby uses gold on black in stead)! Never knew, for all these years.... plonking lances onto that devise hundreds of times...

[@7thson726]

That is awesome, he's done some fascinating work 👍

[@airnt]

@@7thson726 i thought i''d feed the algorithm some more

[@granapriego]

Nice video mate. Not something I would attempt at the moment. But it is a very cool period to have an army or armies of.

[@7thson726]

Thank you mate 👍

[@glennshin3310]

Fun with flags, very good introduction for all. Our club have just started lion rampant and will use the king maker board game as a campaign map as its set in this period, think kinda light bannerlords 2 type skirmish thing.

[@7thson726]

Cheers 👍 I've seen a few examples of people using Kingmaker, its inspired me to design my own simple campaign system we're going to be starting soon 😁

[@glennshin3310]

@@7thson726 check out blucher rules for a pre battle mini map game that allows tactical manoeuvres before the battle and can bring in reserves and deployment zones different every time but entertaining and fun.

[@xMojaveDream]

Wonderful video. As a heraldist, though, I must correct you on the various flags. You captioned the two square/rectangular flags as coats of arms and livery flags. The first one is actually just called a banner (or banner of arms). Iirc, the "livery flag" is just a badge (or heraldic badge or livery badge) on a background made from the owner's livery (the livery being the two most prominent colors on the owner's escutcheon). When you speak of painting people in the color scheme of his lord's escutcheon, you are painting him in his livery, not his livery badge. A livery badge (alternate names above) is basically a pin that someone can use to denote ownership or family.

[@7thson726]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, appreciated it. Getting the device/arms mixed with the flag was something that i did realise a few months later, as always when making the video unscripted things slip though 😁 thanks for pointing out about the difference with the Banner (of arms) strangely this is really hard to find references for, normally authors seem to just say "... A flag bearing the owners coat of arms" rather than what the flag was actually known as. I'm currently working on adding sashes (i believe they are called "bends") to some of my models as another way of displaying the livery and badge, i seem to have picked a lord who went through badges quickly as hot meals 😅

[@BitesizeWargaming]

Nice once Martin! "...or Somerset if you want to be a Lancastrian..." - lol. Great vid bud.

[@BitesizeWargaming]

...and as a "PS" to my comment and a nod to something you said in your summary and whilst talking about books, my thanks for the help & pointers you've given me in the past. Much appreciated!

[@7thson726]

You're more than welcome mate 👍 its been great seeing your force come togther as it progresses. Looking forward to facing it one day hopefully 😁

[@robertstrong6798]

Very interesting video good job 👏

[@7thson726]

Cheers glad you found it useful 👍

[@teessidetyrants1989]

great video, very informative.

[@7thson726]

Thanks, glad you found it helpful 👍🙂

[@KingMATTtheSuperior]

cracking vid bud and very helpful

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate 👍

[@warrencann3824]

Great video! I can see billhooks in my future. Can you do one like this for wargaming Napoleonic’s next? That is damn confusing for a novice. 😁

[@7thson726]

Cheers Warren, glad you liked it mate 👍 i could do, i think Ken has done something similar, I'll have a check

[@johnschultz6731]

Awesome video. Thank you

[@7thson726]

No problem, glad you enjoyed it 👍

[@NossCalavera1670]

Great vid! Crusader, Old Glory and Mirliton also make 28mm WotR minis

[@7thson726]

They do indeed, cheers, I'll add them to the list above 😁

[@davidknight5687]

Thanks for the mention of Test of Resolve - it is a shame that you have not been able to play them yet.

[@7thson726]

Thanks David , no problem 👍

[@NSYresearch]

I really enjoyed this, even though I have no real interest in the period. The way to build an army can apply to lots of periods.

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate 👍

[@mabinogion7023]

Great vid thank you- super helpful. What size are the element bases in your foot units please? The look to be 60mm by 40mm ish? Also your cav please. Have a napoleonic project on the go and ecw after that but always like planning ahead….

[@7thson726]

Pleased to hear you enjoyed it 👍 the bases are all 60 x 45 mm, including the cavalry

[@rayevans3703]

Ps There’s a good review of the changes in blood & horse droppings on the excellent JJ wargames blog.

[@rayevans3703]

Hi Martin, very good summary, you’re going to get a lot more people into this period. Have you seen Fat Wally ( kev’s) website. Quite old now, but very entertaining & informative.,He’s a WOTR fanatic, using impetus & Peter pig stuff mainly. He had a nice campaign system too. Love Graham Evans & Mike Ingram. Graham does rules sets too for niche periods, one I’d love to do is Taiping rebellion.

[@7thson726]

I'll check that out for sure, I've read some of Graham Evans other wargaming bits and enjoyed them. I do hope this gets more people into the period, theres plenty of lords who nees retuines painting 😁

[@rayevans3703]

Damn right 😁. Google Fat Wally wars of the Roses pretender mini campaign, also a set of rules I like that I don’t think has been mentioned Is Art d’la guerre. North Star stock them. A new version of Perfect Captains coat of steel has been rebranded as Blood & horse droppings !?😅

[@martinradcliffe4798]

Very interesting video on a period I know shamefully little about.

[@7thson726]

Thanks mate, glad you liked it 👍

[@robertstrong6798]

Gorgeous army too

[@7thson726]

Thanks 👍

[@garybeardsworth4995]

Very enjoyable video with lots of usful stuff cheers. Will you ever be making public the add ons to the hail ceaser rules wotr stuff that you have been doing ? Ive been thinking besides having a retinue command stand an extra stand to represent the Lord/Earl/Duke etc. Perhaps giving extra abilities when attached to a retinue but if in charge of a battle then having disadvantages when fighting with his retinue instead of overall cmd ?

[@7thson726]

I will be yes, probably after our next game, probably just on a google doc or something similar. I have a few lords to add 👍🤔

[@garybeardsworth4995]

@@7thson726 Excellent news thanks , look forward to reading it.

[@aledroberts6580]

Great video and my son’s just bought me a box of Perry’s (I will let them know :) ). Going to see how I get on painting medieval 28mm rather than 15mm WW2.

[@7thson726]

Hello mate, its a slippery slope haha let me know how you get on 👍

[@davidcollins2648]

Brilliant video. You cover the essentials very nicely. Do you game periods other than the WOR?

[@7thson726]

Hi, thanks, appreciate it I game alot of periods, Napoleonic, Dark Ages, Medieval, Ancients, ECW, 30 Years War, WW2 would be the main ones 👍

[@johnschweiger1079]

They are awesome been looking for something else to paint have a go at

[@7thson726]

Its a great period to have a go at 😁

[@coryhanlon7754]

Excellent video Martin, I’m planning some small forces now! One question though, you mentioned 1st Corp as a source for metals, is it the late medieval models that can be used for WotR? Edit: my apologies I just clicked on the link in your description 😂

[@7thson726]

Hello mate, it is indeed 👍

[@smoothbrush4722]

Fantastic looking armies

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 😁

[@frankmueller2781]

Always paint & build for *BOTH* sides when starting in a new period. Yes, it seems easier to go halves with a friend, but even friends move or their schedules get wonky, do do both sides and you can always game as long as you can find a opponent. (Or run a game solo, if you don't mind playing with yourself. 😘😏🙄)

[@7thson726]

This is a very good point and something that i seem to do as standard now. Keep meaning to try and do some solo gaming 👍

[@duanegregg6222]

Very good !!!

[@7thson726]

Thanks 👍

[@garrystone561]

Beautifully painted figures and based in interesting formations. What camera did you use? The focus was excellent and close enough to see the detail on the figures. Thank you.

[@7thson726]

Thanks very mich glad you like them. I use the P30pro camera on my phone for videos like this👍

[@maryhinge6334]

Really useful overview. Should get the juices flowing for a few people. 🙂

[@7thson726]

Hopefully, the more the better 😁

[@rickrussell8382]

WOR. . You got knights... yes. A messy political situation Lots of room for story creation and campaigns. The army list and character stats looks great

[@7thson726]

Cheers, there is certainly alot of scope for scenarios and campaigning 👍

[@theandf]

Awesome introduction. There are so many rulesets now that I panic at the thought of how to base models to maximize the rules they can be used with. Yours seems like a good compromise. Though I do wonder -- any tips ("maximization of rules" wise) on how many boxes of Perry plastics one would need to make two viable armies, not necessarily for the largest battles but for something that gives "a good game"? Assuming one bases models more or less like you did, how many bases per army, and how many boxes are required? (I get this might be difficult to answer in a rules-agnostic way, but something in the ballpark would suffice!). Thanks!

[@7thson726]

Really pleased you like it 😁👍 I think you could get 2 viable armies from 2 wotr infantry boxes, 2 foot knights, 1 heavy cavalry, 1 light horse and 1 mercenary box plus a smattering of metal commands and cannons 👍

[@theministryofminiatures]

Fantastic video, very inspiring, just in the process of buying some Perry! Quick question.... what size bases do you use? Infantry 60x40mm Cavalry? Command round base? Artillery? Huge thanks, I want to get some bases so I can start building your force.

[@7thson726]

Thanks very mich, welcome aboard. So i use 60 x 45 for my infantry and cavarly, the command round bases are 60mm round and the artillery i pop on 65 x 70mm bases (or whatever will fit). I hope that helps. Feel free to get in touch if you have any other questions 👍

[@theministryofminiatures]

@@7thson726 thanks, do you think 40x60 would be okay? I can get 50 for £6 on eBay... or 50x60, I think the first and like you vary between 5 or 6 per base. Thanks

[@7thson726]

@@theministryofminiatures i think they would work fine, i just have the extra 5mm for a bit of extra room 👍

[@RalphAstley]

Hi Martin. You've mentioned Maximilian a couple of times on the PCP and I'm thinking of picking up the DVD. On Amazon the product details state that there are English subtitles but there are two reviews that complain about the lack of subtitles. What is your experience? Did you watch it on DVD or a streaming service? Thanks for the advice.

[@7thson726]

Hi mate, yeah its a great series, i thinkni watched it on Amazon Prime but just had a quick look and can't see it anymore. I cant believe they would put it out without subs 🤔 I'll have a check and see

[@edwardhoward-williams1692]

Hello Martin, that was brilliant and a great intro to the WOR period. I have been out of wargaming for quite a while, previous periods that I focused on were ECW in 15mm when I was quite young, I then moved to what I would call Conquest/Viking period Normans, Saxons & Vikings and then took up AWI as my last painted and based armies. However for reasons I won't go in to I have quite a large collection of Front Rank WOR Figures, Archers, Billmen, Men at Arms, Cavalry both light & heavy as well as all the ancillaries, all unpainted or based and I want to start again and put armies together. Sorry this is a bit long winded but my question is do the Perry Miniatures look fine alongside Front Rank in terms of scale and bulk? I don't believe Perry was even available when I stopped and I really like the look of the what they have produced and would love to mix up figures to produce armies, plus the cost factor of the plastic figures is a real bonus. Kind regards. Ed

[@7thson726]

Hello mate, no problem at all, thanks for taking the time to comment. I've found that en mass there isnt a problem mixing them. Front rank are slightly shorter and a tad chunkier but then people came on all shapes and sizes. Hope that helps 😁👍

[@edwardhoward-williams1692]

@@7thson726 Thanks very much for getting back to me, apologies for the delay responding, that answers my long winded question perfectly! Cheers Mate.

[@chriswareing1991]

would you be able to show the special rules for the commanders you have got as well in a video one time. very good video really enjoyed it and very helpfull

[@7thson726]

Sure, i could do a commander highlight video for all commanders 🤔

[@johncrome1605]

Hi Martin, this is really a good start up video, and many thanks for doing it. All things taken on board, I feel that to make a start with this period, it is almost a foregone conclusion that there has to be an interest in the reasons (or history) behind it, so some research can not be ignored. I have in my possesion, a book titled " The Military Campaigns of the Wars of the Roses" by Phillip Haigh. I can not recommend it highly enough, and it might be the best book available for Research. Love your youtube vids mate and look forward to more.

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much for your kind comment. Funnily enough I've just come into possession of that same book and its another great primer 👍

[@christopherquinn5899]

Very good.

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much 👍

[@videofreakjona]

Great video! And awesome looking army! Im starting a Napoleonic Black powder army (Brits) Can you recoment any book for the Napoleonic wars? Like you do here for war of the roses?

[@7thson726]

I'll have a think but the Osprey books are very good for reference. There are alot of books that cover uniforms. I'll have a think and see if i can come up with some more 👍

[@davidstokes6406]

You should look at the rules A Coat of Steel by Perfect Captain. They might not be the rules you want to play all the time, but they have some interesting ideas. And they are free to download and have gorgeous art for the game pieces so you should just have them. They also have a campaign system A Crown of Paper which could be useful.

[@7thson726]

I'll check those out. I've seen the crown of paper rules, they look really interesting 👍

[@lionheart6754]

Fantastic video and overview Martin👍 and very useful seeing as I have just started My Billhooks project quick question do you know if Edward the Forth used Burgundian troops at Barnet? Thanks

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much mate, really pleased you enjoyed it. Edward definitely had Burgundian support in the Barnet / Tewkesbury campaign. His brother in law, Charles the Bold of Burgundy had loaned him money, men and ships. The great chronicle of London reports that Edward had 500 Flemish (so Burgundian) handgunners with him at Barnet 👍 i reckon that he would have had other mercenaries from Burgandy as well, pike etc

[@lionheart6754]

@@7thson726 thanks a lot Martin for the information I’m basing my Billhooks force around Barnett so wanted to add Burgundian skirmishes and pikemen for Edwards battle thanks again 👍

[@7thson726]

Awesome, are you going to do his brother George with him? He was in Edwards command at Barnet and i think he's often forgotten about.

[@lionheart6754]

@@7thson726 thanks for the reminder maybe I could put him in a unit of men at arms like you do with your lesser knights and lords 🤔

[@7thson726]

@@lionheart6754 good idea, Edward had him with him basically because he didn't really trust him as he'd only just come back to his side after siding with Warwick. Richard was much higher in Edwards opinion hence he let him commamd the Vanguard on his own 👍

[@mikeclancy478]

Excellent video, most useful. The only point i would disagree with is the separate units of MAA/fully harnessed-from all my reading over the years, it would be more likely that they are mixed in with the bills, as "officers" and to bolster the bills. Oh, could you share your own stats for "Hail Caesar", please?

[@7thson726]

Thanks very much, glad you enjoued it. I certainly see what you mean. Through my own research its basically hard to say what organisational units were used. For wargaming purposes it suits to have them seperate as well as mixed in 😁 (if you look on the bill and bow units you'll see a few scattered throughout ) i think that its pretty fair to say that where possible a lord or noble would have his fully harnessed retainers around him, Northampton and Edgecot spring to mind. Certainly, I'll be sharing them after our next game as I've tinkered with them a bit, I'll pop them up and do a community post with the link 😁👍

[@mikeclancy478]

@@7thson726 Thanks for your reply-and I think you hit the nail on the head with your 'for wargaming purposes", as warmers do love "Units" made up of the same troop type! I get around that by having "melee" units, so I can mix the fully harnessed and unharnessed, after all, armour certainly didn't stop MAA being killed, for example, it would appear that Richard 111 was likely killed by common foot soldiers. My problem with units of MAA is that, especially if given higher stats, they tend to start taking on the characteristics go Warhammer super units, which would be most unrealistic. I would say your channel is possibly the best wargames channel currently on KZbin. Regards.

[@blahblah-hw3xg]

Great video the rule system looks to really reflect the history, in test of resolve infantry attacks in a column, but yours attack in line, do you know why the difference? Is one more authentic?

[@7thson726]

Cheers bud. TOR is at a company level, so each of those 2 bases represents depth of units which was the more common way of fighting but my units represent both archers and billmen on a larger scale soi don't worry about the depth 👍

[@blahblah-hw3xg]

@@7thson726 Ah, thank you!

[@Amfortas]

Bill and bow, like a medieval pike and shot! 😅

[@7thson726]

Haha essentially yeah 😅

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

I found the comments below, supposedly from the author of one of the books you mention, that blocks of bill were NEVER used in WOTR. It's odd that in all the rule sets I've ever seen, including some later rule sets that make a point of accommodating mixed units (e.g. mixed spear / crossbow in the crusades), the combined use of bill / bow in mixed units for WOTR is not covered by any of them. Having just done a check of several other rule books for the period, while trying to fathom what basing regime to use, every single one has bill / bow based separately. In some cases, the depth of the research the writers would carry out and the lengths they went to so as to get historically accuracy is renowned so I can't see how they missed this factor or just ignored it. That every set of rules gets it wrong is not impossible though, look how many WW2 rules have 'artillery drift' just because all the books that preceded them had it, artillery didn't 'drift'. I'm sure your library must be pretty extensive, have you come across instances of bills / bows used as stand alone units either often or at all? Out of interest too, is there any reason you opted for 60 x 45 and not 60 x 40? It's only a few mm but I ask because one of the rule sets we may use adopts 60x40. The few mm won't matter but I was wondering if you tried 60x40 and found them not deep enough (horses tails etc).

[@7thson726]

So it's just one of the facts of the period that we just don't know. The combined units infield aren't depicting necessarily combined arms but rather all the troops under a lord's command. At this scale it represents a few hundred men and their rough position on the battlefield Inc archers, billmen and men at arms etc. there are instances of the archers being set out Infront of the army (Towton) and then others where they operate on there own battles against the enemy (Tewkesbury). A good thing to remember and how I look at it, is at this period there is a rough 2:1 ratio of archers to billmen/foot once melee was engaged these archers didn't just step back and snipe from the sides, they were armed with falchions, bucklers and other instruments and they would engage as well. To me, the mixed bill and bow units represent the multiple companies under any one lord's command 👍

[@7thson726]

The bases were simple because it allows just a little more room for interesting basing 👍

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

@@7thson726 Thanks for this. The main reason I’m asking is trying to decide between bills and bows mixed on the same base or doing as you do. At the moment I’ve found no compelling reason to base the bows and bills on separate stands then combine the stands as I’ve not turned up any evidence of them ever being used separately. Equally though, we have no evidence that they didn’t either and, at least from a gaming perspective, it gives another optional way to use the units.

[@7thson726]

@@Edward-Plantagenet in the end you should go with that you feel suits you the best. as I say, at Towton they were used separately quite famously but to be honest I honestly don't think it matters. Ultimately it all ends in a massive melee 👍😉

[@alexanderhay-whitton4993]

There are a LOT of other options, lovely though your figures are. I do WotR in 10mm and I'd never dream of using bugger figures.

[@7thson726]

I agree there are more options, as i said at the start of the video this was just my take on what i did 😃 if you have other manufacturers just comment with them and I'll add them to the list in the description, have done that with a couple already 👍

[@miguelnollet3056]

First of all thank you for the wonderful batreps. I am also building a small force, and being Flemish, I would like to know if Flemish mercenaries fought for the Lancastrians and if so, what colours were used?

[@7thson726]

You're very welcome, greatly appreciate it. I have just seen your email, sorry I've been flat out at work and I'll reply asap 👍

[@miguelnollet3056]

@@7thson726 That's alright

[@dr8576]

Not heard of Pete's flags before. A quick look on ebay - they look nice but I see he repeats the Freezywater error on Clifford's arms.

[@7thson726]

He's slowly building up more sets slowly 👍

[@dr8576]

@@7thson726 I wish him success, but I hope he does some original research instead of repeating FW's errors.