Warhammer 40k Lets Talk About Spam

Its a spam SLAM! or is it? the game has many weird units and spamming them can make for great or terrible games.
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[@jprovorse4159]

Good morning Bulbasaur and friends!

[@hyperspacehobbies]

"SUP J!"-Ian "Goodmorning"-Steve "Bulba!"-Bulbasaur

[@jprovorse4159]

Pinned… does this mean I’m officially hyperspace adjacent? 😁

[@hyperspacehobbies]

​@jprovorse4159 You a straight up OG fan!❤

[@m.k.2455]

This feels like it isn't a conversation about Spam as much as it is about min-maxing

[@seansnodgrass3330]

I was thinking the same, spam doesn't seem to be the problem. People that want to win are gonna play whatever is the best, if that is spam or hyper complicated armies.

[@UnsungPainter]

Nah this is a conversation about feelings lol

[@SaiBowen]

Just want to mention guys, I love that the videos are ~20 minutes! Really works well to keep strongly focused on the subject and works well that I don't have to commit to some 2 hour dissertation :)

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Thanks! glad to hear the positive feed back. HAHA ya sometimes the 2 hour long videos give you 20 mins of information.

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Absolutely! This is real digestible, and I love it! I'm glad we are doing it this way!

[@OaktownPirate510]

20 minutes is a real solid, watchable length.

[@Astrospill]

Another commenter said that this doesn't feel like a conversation on spam, it feels like a discussion on min maxing and I have to agree. 60 plague bearers sounds like a really fun match to play against, where band of Cadians with flashlights fighting off the zombie horde. A list with max reapers sounds really fun, especially if your opponent leans into those grapple guns and uses them to fly around from terrain to terrain. What isn't fun is when the spam is all focused on the best of the best you can field. For example, I have a league game coming up against a Tau player with 3 squads of crisis with maxed cyclics, each squad being lead by Coldstars with max cyclics. I'm dreading that game because I know it doesn't matter how I play, anything he points at is going to die and there is nothing I can do to stop it. 98% of us are playing the game to have fun, so the only way to build a list wrong is to make a list that your or your opponent don't enjoy playing with/against. As an aside, I disagree with the argument that spam is good because it raises the red flag for GW. GW won't see my list and they won't look at the list for any of the casual players I frequently play against. Using tournament play and tournament lists as the sole way to balance the game provides a really poor data set to work with in my opinion.

[@morimori8174]

I started late 9th edition when a friend got me the scions of Macragge box and I fell in love with the look of the hellblasters, after that I purchased the iron hands box with the 2 redemptors. My list rn consist of 30 hellblasters and the 2 redemptors as the main battle front. My friends that also started around the same time all spam the units they find the coolest and want to see more of. We are all so happy by just looking at our armies in the table so the games overall are 1000% more enjoyable for us.

[@captainglitterbeard4531]

Back in my day we just spammed tactical squads.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Challenge accepted!

[@leesickler3249]

Great video- love the conversational style!

[@Kal-hg1hi]

I really love this videos. Great stuff!

[@airyman]

Do Thousand sons actually have enough unique models to call anything spamming? Not counting our goatboys of course. The whole army is magnus, ahriman, rubrics, and various sorcerers. Sots are way too expensive right now.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

YES and if your army index only consists of about 8 different units how do you play without repetition.

[@1onebegger]

Same story with Grey Knights

[@itsjoellescott6343]

@@hyperspacehobbies Much less, very few of our non-unique data sheets contribute points for our army's rule. So the selection gets even smaller.

[@hayhay2640]

Spam is sometimes a default part of certain armies guard fall under the definition of spam and that spam can be all of the army im running 120 guardsmen 6 russes 3 chimeras and a few other more versatile units but i could just be playing scions or other things potentially 2 or 3 units of 3 sentinals this is my army it seems like spam but its just gaurd.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Right, even a diverse army list can get stamped with the label "spam" even if its just a small amount of the army's points that go toward a group of units. Some times its unfair.

[@Jebzisere]

Excellent discussion guyz.😀

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Thank you!

[@desertzombie]

Always a spam infantry list( ork boyz)

[@LordOfBalIs]

i miss 30 ork boyz :(

[@sk8er217man1]

Loving all the content lately!

[@tanner3298]

I hear you guys but you also have to take into account that this is not a single player game. Someone else might enjoy the spam or specifically playing more meta with the strong units of the codex. If a list doesn’t look fun for you to play against or like it’s a lopsided army that you can’t deal with, ie +2 saves against your low ap list then don’t play the game. The games about fun. I get that it can be a feel bad if an army counters yours but that could also be a list building issue on your side. Meta is a part of heavy competitive games. Just as your opponent has no right to tell you what to play/enjoy, you can’t do that either. The game is about fun, if you don’t wanna play a hyper meta game have that talk pregame and your opponent may agree and want to bring something else. In a tournament setting people are going to bring strong lists, if that’s not your jam no biggie. Keep the content rollin guys!

[@voxcasttonowhereofficial]

Absolute top tier content fellas! 👏🏽💯

[@hyperspacehobbies]

hehe Thanks! Check this channel out everyone!

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Man, oh, man, do I ever want to be on Voxcast to Nowhere - wicked cast

[@hyperspacehobbies]

@@spacemarinesteve6057 The FORESHADOWING IS STRONG!

[@voxcasttonowhereofficial]

@@spacemarinesteve6057 🫣🫣🫣

[@erniedaniel9265]

I love this topic of discussion because I spam X amount of the same unit to get an edge plus I’m a Ork player so spam da bodies! I feel it’s cause the weapon or unit is so good that it feels a crime to not spam a unit, but I’ve been on the other side of being spammed by 3 glads, 3 Fex spam. Sure it’s not fun to fight but at the end of the day I just play what I think is cool and thematic….but then James workshop makes it hard to do that 😅

[@hyperspacehobbies]

The rule of cool is very important. Ork players get a free pass with Da Boyz, mostly just because its so awesome to see the horde on the tabletop. and its been a staple of the game forever. Its less of a surprise when you see Ork boyz on mass, maybe that has something to do with it.

[@prinzdragoon9754]

Me totally not building a list that includes 30 terminators.

[@reloadded2959]

Are yall outta Washington? I heard Tacoma! It may seem silly, but I am super about supporting peeps from my local area!

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Close! Up in B.C.

[@reloadded2959]

@@spacemarinesteve6057 Ill take it!

[@juanmvaldivia]

Great video. An idea i like seeing is limiting none battle line units to 1 per 1000pts. I'm a little old school though. Force Org. Charts and all. I also like the idea of erip hero status to limit some units to max of one.

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

I actually miss the forced org. chart a little bit too. It's hard to say. It is definitely easier than ever to build a list, which is excellent. And it is easier than ever to build a list that does what you want and plays the way you want (which is awesome) - but... there are definitely downsides

[@catherinedalzell3183]

I never got over the change in Arks of Omen by which you can take anything, no minimum number of troups/battleline. To me, an army should have a mix of "basic" units with a small number of elites/heavy hitters. I think the "feels bad" about spam is when the list departs too far from anything lore based and just becomes all about winning.

[@Bucket_Boy101]

I feel like Stephen saying "Spam and Eggs" needs to be clipped and memed to the end of time.

[@alastairlindley51]

The problem is that there are always units in every codex/index that are that much better than everything else so will always get maxed out/spammed. You'll never get pure balance because when the data slate comes round the stronger units will get nerfed and be replaced by another unit in an ongoing cycle.

[@OfficialTommyEch]

A major reason that i spam is for simplicity. If i run 3 x 5 squads of infiltrators, it means i only have to look at a single datasheet and my gameplan can be around neglecting deep strike. Its more newbie friendly way of playing. Its the same with magic decks. Beginner decks often have 4 of each while competitive decks are finetuned to have answers for everything in the exact quantity you need it. But it takes A LOT of skill to play a warhammer army well if you also have to remember 20 datasheets just to run your own army.

[@timocode2069]

Why do you guys don’t put up a Podcast version on Spotify or wherever? o.O

[@cameronwoods-reynolds4793]

Liked, comment and if i could subscribe twice I would! Great video! Loved the spam jokes at the start. Gonna spam me some terminators once i get my deathwing assault box painted up! 10 deathwing knights and 20 deathwing terminators! Come take the mid-field 😂

[@hyperspacehobbies]

OH DAAAAAYM thats going to be very hard to shift. Deathwing are some beautiful models too!

[@stuartmortimer3922]

Also, I think style changes are healthy. The game keeps mutating and part of the obvious fun is to keep on top of the changes for a a lot of players. It’s all KZbin/Reddit content - but it’s all put out in a way of packaged in a way that makes you feel like you’re not spamming, you just ingest the communities main meta talking points that gets those people likes etc on their channels. I started out in 9th edition (2020) and I was really into rule of cool. Got beat in every game. Forward to a game I played at gaming club last year - I played 3 vindicators. Still lost. Took me ages to paint and I love that demolisher cannon. It was the end of 9th and vehicles were way weaker but I technically spammed. Point is - through consuming the community content over 2-3 years and playing when you can (socially) you adjust to a hyper meta competitive game we call 40K.

[@vittoriodicredico5985]

Gotta say that c'tans are the only good melee unit in crons, so of course they are being played a lot, there's not much else XD

[@ZarrithenRune]

All dreadnaught army hurts and is a headache , but i just think spam is just using the same unit over and over regaurdless of how weak or strong they are. its just depends on how annoying the spammer is with is cause sometime its fun fighting spam units but most of the time its like really why...

[@sarico7827]

I think it's a balancing act and Gw I think is doing a fair decent job about it love the rule of 3. Talk about spam half the players are space marine (beakys) and more then half the factions are power armor saves. No really your videos are very insightful and look at that happy little grass starter.

[@iUsseh]

i just started playing and now i know this tilts people im gonna spam more

[@justinc246]

Another great discussion. I got into 40k from early playon videos and probably don't have the depth of experience as others (starting early 9e) but I will say that "spam" honestly should just be shorthand for taking many of something (ex: spamming lethal hits and rerolls, spamming wraiths, spamming flamers) and leave the connotation up to the individual. This is mostly because I feel it's so subjective and the reaction to a spam list is very personal. I totally get when someone looks across the table and rolls their eyes at a triple Warden Custodes list or triple NDK, GMDK, but in my experience the context of the game matters. If you and your opponent have agreed on a competitive game (like in a tournament or tournament practice) all bets are off. I may spam the most efficient datasheets and expect my opponent may do the same. If we're in a more casual scenario, the list can absolutely change to be less spam of top units to either bring more variety or spam to a theme (ex: Raven guard list with a ton of Phobos, or a Salamanders list with a ton of infernus marines and aggressors). My local meta is quite competitive which tends to prop up the expectation for anyone playing to generally make powerful lists that often spam (ex: the 2 is 1, and 1 is none philosophy of redundancy in lists). While this isn't the best feels for all players, I agree it can definitely highlight what might be a little too efficient with regard to internal army balance or highlight a combo that probably needs to be addressed by GW. Players looking to win a tournament will look to the most efficient combos to maximize the efficacy of the 2000pts they're allocated to win. It can be a go wide or spam list but at the end of the day, spam is just largely a style of list and can be negative, neutral, or positive based on the individual.

[@brettclifford2723]

I feel like if spamming a unit asks your opponent a HARD/MANDATORY question of any type stat check in the list building phase of the game. Then that is unhealthy. It feels like when i built my list i need to gamble just incase i come up against skew. If i can play around your spam question during the game then its fine.

[@wedgeantilles6134]

I think the problem is spam with min max or spam with undercosted units. Like you said generally nobody spams crappy units. Its spamming ion blasters or spamming dreadnaughts, or spamming gladiators. If someone does middling infantry spam (imperial guardsman) thats not a problem to me. But those guys who do 300 conscropts in a problem. I think spam will always exist to some extent in the competetive acene because maximizing one thing is generally how you win in competetive games. It sucks when you see it on the casual side though

[@marauder340]

I think it's fair game that you'd be using the best your faction has got for competitive play, but I definitely understand the downside of it because of what it makes you do if you want to join events or how bad it feels to get steamrolled in casual play. Spamming a unit into being good tends to apply to units that were meant to be numerous, like battleline as mentioned, but the other form does understandably get flak because it instead feels like a purely crunch-driven decision of having multiples of this great datasheet.

[@stuartmortimer3922]

Have fun and lose (gain respect and self respect!) or spam and win - it’s not quite this true or harsh but it’s true to some extent.

[@reillyclements1673]

Ctan should be limited to 1 per army.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

They need some kind of nerf for sure.

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Maybe one per other army. So, if one guy is playing one, then you can't, but then the third necron player in the room can run one. I like it.

[@mystictirend1222]

I'd be curious on your takes on spam in lists/armies where the only competitively viable option IS the spam. For example, for a long time in parts of 9th the only competitively viable Tau list was the Triple Riptide. Like what happens when spam is the only way a particular army can compete?

[@kenjacobsen9386]

Battleshock spam!

[@EliteDarkAssassin]

I'm sorry that gw forced the Tyranids to play like this to win games. I don't like it either but it's my only way to be able to do damage is with neurolictors

[@johndoodoohead9221]

I feel like competitive 40k and the KZbinrs that report on it have tainted the fun of games for non- tournament players. Yes, the competitive world is dynamic, which is why youtubers make vids on it. But then all players watch it and the vids narrows many into a mindset of power and win at all costs play (spam). Then i play a game at the local store w a fun diverse list against triple norns, exocrines, etc. It sucks. What do i have to do? Ask my opponent to bring a bad list? Thats why i like play on tabletop games, usually very fluffy lists. I dont know the answer, but i usually dont like playing tournament players for this reason. Even if not in an event, they are practicing a list (against me) for one. The worst part is that even people who dont play in events build lists based off tournie news or youtube content. I see less people having fun too and playing to win regardless of the person at the other side of the table.

[@artkewl03]

Yeah I'd like an order of Spam and eggs, Spam Musubi, some of the Spam maple bites, huh....Spam Pupusas, Spam and cowboy beans......you can add some Spam and waffles, Spam monkey bread....let's try the Spam potato salad, and maybe the Spam kabobs.......oh and I can get an order of Spam fried rice?!

[@Meako92]

I take it you eat a lot of spam

[@mahro-wulf9947]

Don't forget spam sushi

[@aaronguerrette]

13:20 I have the same feeling that the "feels bad" comes from the strength of the datasheet. Also when the inevitable "Nerf" comes in and once there is a Nerf.... if the player pivots to another datasheet then that is clear cut spam.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Oh ya, I find that players that do this kind of thing usually get a reputation for being "needs to win" kind of players.

[@mistformsquirrel]

So here's a question: Armored Company Guard - is that spammy or no? (Genuinely not sure myself) - It's a fluffy list, and technically can even be done as a Highlander list. Like... you can literally put out a Rogal Dorn, a Baneblade, and what like, half a dozen Leman Russ chassis - but those Leman Russ' are all technically different data sheets. (Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator, Executioner, Punisher, Tank Commander) - I haven't calculated this out so it might be slightly overbudget but just as a rough estimate. But it's a lot of T11 or better 2+ save chassis with a *lot* of guns. And like, as a Guard player - my army in the works right now is just a mish-mash of things - but in the future I could see wanting to branch out into an Armored Company as an option. But I'm sorta hesitant cause I don't like the idea of making my opponent feel awful - I just think tanks are neat.

[@heavydestro1729]

Not me wanting to spam infernus marines with my salamanders

[@TheTheloraxster]

Dreadknights are a semi-unique or at least rare case were you can basically take up to 6 of essentially the same profile (with just different abilities) on a non-battle line unit. This was a problem in 9th for a while, until the rules changed to make it so you can only take 1 grand master in NDK. Right now the GMNDK ability makes it so that it is diminishing returns after the first, but still decent. Maybe GW should just limit the GMNDK to 1 full stop again?

[@1onebegger]

As a Grey Knight player I don't run 6 dreadknights, and limiting GMDK to 1 is reasonable. However, with such a small army roster to begin with its hard to call someone out for running the best units they can.

[@shyflops]

cannot believe you hate greyknights smh my head interesting video!

[@misterzealous8696]

Love the conversations and real discussions on the state of the game. All of the doom and gloom clickbait videos are so tiring.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

I really like this edition, lots of good interaction with the community and I feel that GW is trying to balance things out when they get the chance, sometimes they do a great job, sometimes its a bit late but overall there's an attempt being made.

[@misterzealous8696]

@@hyperspacehobbies I am really excited to see the next data slate and points updates. This will be the first update targeting the AdMech and Necrons and will be a good litmus test on how they handle disparate issues. I am a Necrons player, and I think your comments on the wraith/c'tan spam were spot on. Necrons aren't topping tournaments every week and a few units are going to suffer for the crimes of a single detachment, but they are maybe just a tick overpowered. The AdMech are suffering from a weak codex and just horrendous points values to compensate. I want to see this next update address those few high spots for Necrons and really bring the AdMech to a healthier state.

[@lite165]

They can propose army lists for players to use at least for tournament. Maybe fore army lists per army

[@Garif07]

Im brand new to 40k (the tabletop game part) and im currently building my 5 dreadknight army. I went Grey Knights to be the good guy but guess im the bad guy now lol.

[@codyott1982]

I run 3 squads of jump intercessors, for a total of 20. Other than that, I do spam jump infantry and melee infantry. But I'm a blood angels player, and I want my list to feel like blood angels

[@iddoboomgaard353]

I hate that grey knights are really strong right now, I just started out recently and my dream future list is as many dreadknights as I can legally get on a table, just cause I love my jedi x mecha knight guys. But now it doesn't really feel like I can play that cause it's way too strong.

[@jonmattison3939]

I'm not sure I'm on board with "some spam is not spam". Spam = spam. Sometimes it's game breaking (3x dreadnights, 3x c'tan) sometimes it's not (6x battleline...). But it's still a copy/pasted unit. There will always be a difference between list-building to Win and list-building to be thematic/fun. I may run 3 dreadnoughts in my list, but it will be 1 Redemptor, 1 Ballistus and 1 Brutalis. I'm a casual player, not a tournament player and the majority of my time my list building consists of 0-1 of as much of my cool stuff. (I already have too much Black Templars to fit into 2000 points). In fact only this week, I can now field 2x10 Primaris Crusader Squads. I suppose it comes down to Choose-to-Win (tournaments) or Choose-to-be-Thematic (according to the lore of your army). Some factions will have more overlap than others. Obviously, as a casual player, my friends and I can start making our own custom points lists, so Tournament-triggered points-jacking of Redemptors and Whirlwinds etc don't have to impact my table; but at the same time, I want to play by the newest/official documents published by GW. So then I get resentful that the small % competitive players (vs the large % of casual players) is forcing these nerfs/point-raising to effect my casual table. I wasn't abusing Redemptors and Whirlwinds and c'tans and Wraiths, but now my table/lists will have to change because of it. I remember back in the day, in Warhammer Fantasy Battle, (I don't even remember the terms off the top of my head), but the WFB equivalents to Troops, Elites, etc... If I remember correctly, you had to take X% of your army points in Troops in order to unlock Y% of special/elite units... So GW could change things from 0-3 units/0-6 battleline to "1 Battleline unit required to unlock two non-Battleline slots. So basically a 1:2 ratio of Battleline:Non-Battleline. Rather than just jacking up the points to Spam units, just change certain datasheets to 0-2 or 0-1 instead of the default 0-3... That way, at the casual table, I can keep playing my 0-1 list without being punished by the tournament crowd.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Great discussion here, Yes the choose to be thematic thing and choose to win tournaments are 2 sides of the spam coin. If i play an all Nurgle daemons list and its crushing. I have no other options BUT to spam something, there is only a handful of units to choose from, and if it also happens to be majorly competive can I call it fluff? and will anyone believe me when I do? And playing with your friends in a casual setting is an awesome way to tailor things so there is less spam. Never done the whole "Custom Points list" thing, But i have had people jsut flat out ask if i can use a particular unit less often because of its impact on the game. I'm sure it allows everyone to play what they want and not get bad feels. Sadly the casual players will always be playing for the sins of the tournament scene.

[@jonmattison3939]

@@hyperspacehobbies Agreed. If I were to play competitively I would definitely look at competitive lists and try to emulate them with what I own. But at home I mix "what I own" with "let's use as many Templar units and the Templar Index and sprinkle in Marine units as needed" even if other detachments might be stronger. I/we haven't done 'Custom Points' either, but the thought process would be to maintain our own 'living points document' that would have our casual playgroup accept/veto points changes from GW. Even without points being dictated by GW, we do police ourselves in terms of "I don't want to play your 99 c'tan list, please bring something else to the table" If we're playing for fun, then we should be bringing fun lists. I desire a 50/50 win rate where I win or lose by +/- 5 points. I don't want to table or be tabled by turn 2.

[@edwinjuengel4168]

I don't think that grey knight list as a good example. That is a mani chiha list. He literally just plays spam. Every list he builds is exactly like that

[@Psykroids]

Spam in gaming definition is utilizing something over and over again to achieve an effective result. Usually known as "cheeze" or as a "meme strat". This form or technique is known widely among many players as a lack of skill or creativity which varies among the various gaming communities. Either way it seems that the player consensus across multitudes of games is that spam is unhealthy and unfun to play with and against as it enforces a one sided fun attitude.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

When I read "Lack of creativity" I started nodding my head, your right.

[@nolanmerz9352]

Is three squads of havocs 2 with full auto cannon one with full lascannon to spammy for 1000 points? Also thanks for the video was an interesting watch!

[@willlondon4964]

Because of 40 k's high damage If you have one of something, you have nothing. If you have two to three of something you should be able to use that profile or ability for a few turns.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

YES! 100%

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Yup! Definitely!

[@merica6502]

I brought 5 trukks to a game once, but that was a 3000 point game

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

Whoa boy, lol, 5 trucks! So very awesome!

[@merica6502]

@@spacemarinesteve6057 I've spammed 100s boys

[@stuartmortimer3922]

Haha one last thing! I play tennis - I have played lots of players and different styles over 25 years of competitive tennis. I have noticed a thing that is similar to 40K that translates from competitive tennis. Guys with new rackets have an edge. Guys that have an OP level serve or forehand essentially spam those shots. They are not playing to lose. They’re playing to win and hammer the opponent with essentially the same data sheet (in tennis terms to 40K). Lots of modern players also now only posses a 2 handed backhand - why!? It’s not a style shot it’s way more effective to counter punch and have a more solid return of serve. Coaching players needs to be made accountable as KZbin essentially coaches players of INSERT HOBBY OR SPORT - the will to win in people is a great motivation to pass on your knowledge/shortcuts to win at that game or hobby. But playing for fun etc or style is way way harder to get on board with. As most people don’t wanna get embarrassed socially by being known as the person who can’t win or doesn’t know how to- so they’re dumb and the community loses patience and beating them doesn’t feel as good. Play the game how you wanna play it / don’t compare to others. Spam if you want. Don’t spam. Think for yourself. It’s so trite but do what you love to do in that hobby or sport. F*ck whether you win or lose. Treat the 2 imposters both the same. ❤

[@Pine_Appole]

In my observations the reason why spam is so prevalent is because certain datasheets are just simply the best. Take Ctan for example. Ctan are extremely hard to kill and are relatively cheap for what you get. But without ctan what to Necrons even have? Take space marines and their inceptors. Even with them costing 130 for 3 I still see others and myself bringing 6-12 because they are just that good. Usually this is the reason for unit spam.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

100% the effectiveness of a unit is #1, and the quality of the units VS its point cost is a close #2.

[@rejectedopinions]

Me, casually playing 3 techmarines, 1 unit of scouts and 9 tanks

[@jameszeropr]

3x Scouts doesn't seem like spam to me. What do you think of 3 units of Genestealers and Broodlords? Is that spam? I like to think not because back in the day they were battleline hence why I have 40 of them.

[@D6tabletop]

Is 300 imperial guard infantry spam, even if it's many different types of infantry? 😮

[@knoxminis1211]

10th edition's lack of a force org chart simply promotes spam. I get why they did it and the idea that you can bring your favorite things. It sounds fun, but you just know people bring the most efficient units and not "favorites."

[@subzer0381]

As someone who's just starting in Warhammer, I would NEVER be able to enjoy a spam army. Building and painting too many of the same thing is my absolute least favorite thing I've done so far. I will never look at another Termagant the same way again after building only forty of them.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

OH MY yes, If i have to paint another Bloodletter im going to go out and start taking skulls for myself.

[@ravenRedwake]

11:58 the tzzangor dominance list where it’s just maximum tzzangors?

[@tyleraddison9062]

I feel like in some codexs your kinda forced to bring the max or near max of certain units because without them you're unable to preform against most things. Example for tyranids we kinda need the neuralictors because it allows up to actually punch up since most of our units cap out at strength 9

[@tyleraddison9062]

For tyranids we have 3 things holding up our faction if we lost them we're dead in the water

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Yeah, spam can be the only way some armies keep there heads above water in this edition, and if your rocking a tournament youve got to bring your best. Sometimes you must adapt to survive, little Tyranid pun there.

[@user-rw5zw9wi2q]

I totally don't have 30 infernus marines. Nope definitely don't.

[@Chames222]

i like batleline! because i can spam 6!^^

[@Yrian96]

I think it matters depending on the context of the game, if I am playing vs a casual friend then it's kind of weird to show up with a super optimized list with 3x exocrines and 3x haruspex. But if I am trying to win a tournament and that's the best way to build tyranids in the current meta why would I not bring 3x of the best things, why make my own army worse for flavour if the objective is to win the game vs other people doing the same? Edit: To be fair to you guys I was painting gargoyles while listening so maybe you were talking about a casual setting.

[@Darkja]

You also have another side to the spam, and that is lack of better (other) units to field. Look at Chaos Knights, the reason wardogs are spammed is because how inneficient big knights (even post point drops) are, not only in comparison to dogs, but in general. Or how Admech needed/needs to spam cerain units, because the rest are just plain bad. Sometimes spam is sign of not only an especific unit being too good, but an unit being the only viable option to remain competitive. I feel Necrons kinda fall into this too, if you look back every single unit the Necrons used that had some kind of resilience to hold objectives was nerfed, hard, Lychguard bricks, Cryptothralls, Warriors, and then nerfs to reanimator and orb, all of this radically decreased their staying power and also propelled Wraiths + C'tan (this and the buffs to the units) as the only viable options to have units that can hold objectives and not die immediatly (i would put Tesseract Vault up there too, if you could even move the darn thing around), Wraiths + C'tan is just a sympthom of the underlying issue, which was overnerfing every unit Necrons needed to actually have staying power. Dont missunderstand, C'tan are too efficient for their points, but once they are nerfed (and they will) and most likely Wraiths too (or Technomancer), Necrons dont really have that much to fall back that have efficient durability, and the overall GW way to balance is to overtune things, so i have very little faith that they will recognize this problem and leave necrons with nothing. (Ideally, you would see buffs to Warriors at the very least)

[@SuperRogueTrader]

How many minutes before one of Mani's lists shows up 😂

[@lemon.lime.6924]

I’ve got 3 dreads and 3 tanks that I can run as different things due to me only playing casual with friends or family. Doesn’t mean I always bring them but sorry when I’m playing 2 ctans or a million orks or a bunch of Votann with mostly terminator squads and champions in hekatons with sagitaurs, I will absolutely bring alllll of the spam and still might lose depending on how points scoring goes

[@1onebegger]

Saying that a Grey Knight player running 3 GMDK and 3 DK is spam is accurate. However when the army literally has 3 unique model kits (not counting characters) then the problem is with GW not the player, especially in a vehicle heavy, high toughness meta where that is the only real heavy weapons unit.

[@rougedogo152]

Where does this conversation fit on all infantry guard. That's pure spam and also pure fluff at the sane time. Like it's not uncommon to see just a wall of guardsmen and maybe the command chimera if that being ordered forward unto death

[@satellarknightmare4046]

BULBASAUR!!!!!

[@Casanovadracula]

Personally I think spamming is just another viable tactic.

[@Dalmango]

I think the key is always being fun to play against. A sea of Ork Boyz or guardsmen is a great time while 3 gladiators with 3 dreadnoughts etc. is just terrible

[@AngelofDeath333]

It would definitely be fun to play against a Guard list that’s maxed on Battle line Infantry.

[@jprovorse4159]

Not everyone defines fun the same way. Some people thoroughly enjoy building crunchy lists and smashing it into an even crunchier list. I am in heaven lately bringing my 3 sword brethren squads w/judiciar into hypercrypt crons multiple times this year.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

@@jprovorse4159 Well said the term "fun" can mean tabling your opponent turn 2 for some, or having an epic turn 5 showdown between heros for another, but ultimately loosing the game.

[@jprovorse4159]

@@hyperspacehobbies I definitely agree with the underlying point of being a fun opponent. Winning or losing, comp or casual, I just really love playing this game and try to be everyone’s favorite punching bag, err.. opponent.

[@Antnerd]

I much prefer a diverse "toolkit" of a list, but man it feels bad when it's very obvious what tool your opponent needs to knock out and you just dont have the redundancy to cover for losses. Like knocking out all your plasma/lascannon vs a 2+ Sv list

[@MattFay23]

playing 2 variations of the same unit to the max is spam....sorcerers, exalted sorcerers, and exalted sorcerers on disc maxed together would be spam.

[@Bucket_Boy101]

Also to be fair to Thousand Sons, we have 28 datasheets and only so many of them are good into the meta.

[@knobjob2839]

I thought the rule of 3 applied to squads. How can we take 6 squads of one unit? I'm a new player.

[@marauder340]

You can have six of a battleline unit (check for the Battleline keyword).

[@knobjob2839]

🙏 thank you

[@aaronguerrette]

SPAM SPAM SPAM all over da face.

[@seanscanlon2000]

Spam is really only bad when its spamming the top units ocer and over again. Thats where they become well broken. Space marine battle company was spammed it was good because having so many units allowed the strenghts of thoae units to actually come thru. Like 20 to 30 Tactical marines is good 60 of them suddenly becomes a very huge threat

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Such an interesting thing though, like spam isn't always about the best unit in the game, sometimes its about just pure mass of fair priced units.

[@seanscanlon2000]

@hyperspacehobbies8400 like playing against a horde or orks is always fun does thay mean ork boys should not be spammed? Or a tyranid swarm or guard. Like we have to keep in mind some things just look epic and are thematic

[@hyperspacehobbies]

@seanscanlon2000 green tide and tyranid swarms always get a free pass. It's part of their core. And the rule of cool always wins at our tables.

[@seanscanlon2000]

@@hyperspacehobbies Ya that's why I think spam can both be good and bad for the game. Thematic spam I am all for. You spamming flying hive tyrants I am not in favor of

[@ferdulla]

Whats wrong with 6 C'tan? i only hear remarks cause people dont like whats on the opposite side?

[@esowatch5600]

Hi, So my opinion: I find spam lists super, super, super boring and if I come across one of those I give up after round 1 or cancel the game straight away. That's why I found the regiment rules of the 9th edition better, so you have to take at least a few line troops with you. But... I'm also a casual player with all my heart. I don't play to win. I play to have fun. That's why I don't think the argument that beginners have it easier with spam lists is that valid. Everyone forgets the rules. If it's just about fun you can remind others of their potential. Absolutely no problem! But I also say: If you just want to win you can't avoid spam. In the competitive area there will always be these lists. Because the fun is less about the game and more about winning. And no matter how GW changes the rules the scene will always see that it gets the best out of the units. That's totally fine for that area. But ist's bowing an Not verry funny if the competitive becomes the model for casual Players.

[@archangelsariel1986]

I think the blame mostly belongs to GW. Codexes are horrendously unbalanced and its intensional. Its not designed for people to have fun. Its designed to make money. Its no coincidence that alot of the most powerful units an army are often the most expensive to play on the table.

[@davidkimball5222]

If your opponent has spam that you struggle to counter that's no fun at all. My son and his friends have a word for this sort of behaviour in video games and that's 'sweaty'. I kinda like it. I turned up at the club to have a good time with my nice mix of units ( it's a cold day in hell I'm buying the same thing twice over a cool new model) and now i have 3 maxed out units of whatever is flavour of the month heading my way with bad intentions. You're trying too hard pal. That's not why i am here.

[@mj1mj3]

So you can "spam" a unit as long as it's not good?

[@crsmith6226]

“If you play daemons you have a lot of 4+ invulnerable saves” that’s a lie, almost everything that isn’t a greater daemon has a 5++. It hurts my soul.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

Maybe I should have said "if you play against MY daemon lists" good point though we have a lot of 5++ units and that can fade quickly VS small arms fire. I usually lean into Tzeentch units like screamers and flamers and they come with 4++, and often back them up with bloodcrushers, Slaanesh chariots, daemon princes and soul grinders which are packing 4++ but that's just me.

[@crsmith6226]

@@hyperspacehobbies it hurts my heart that the biggest threat to bloodletters is a 20 block of guardsmen

[@andrewgallagher7690]

Throwing my 2 cents in, as someone who likes playing the game, but collects models solely based on how cool they look, I have the most fun playing with and against a diverse army of units. I currently have 1500 points of Votann that has every model in the whole rooster (save for some characters), and my friend's armies have a similar levels of unit diversity. We play a lot more casually, and prefer narrative over competitive viability. That being said, I totally understand why people like making competitive lists with a stupid number of large tanks, characters, and monsters. I'm not going to do that, and probably won't play with people who do, but if they enjoy building and playing with hyper competitive lists, more power to them. We're trying to get 2 different things out of the same hobby.

[@johnwycough1955]

I don't play "spammers". The best unit ones. Easy. Quit tourny play at 6th. Have limitless more fun now.

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

Spam lists are the only variety you actually have. With balanced lists, you face the same army every tiime.

[@polus134]

It's not Se tan. its Keh tan.

[@Kal-hg1hi]

Also, isn’t it pronounced “Kuh-Tan”?

[@cameronwoods-reynolds4793]

Meh, doesn't really matter. ABBAdon vs AbBADon, Roboute Guilliman vs Robot Girlyman.

[@hyperspacehobbies]

I think It was 2002 when C'tan first came out, I was too young to know Phonetics and its impossible now for my tiny smooth brain to switch over, haha.

[@gentlemanviking9389]

Spam is for the intellectually lazy. It is not a sign of strategic prowess.