50cc Mini V12 Engine Teardown - After Dyno Run

[@jamesbilly5324]

As a reminder, this engine costs 2600$. And it seems like it can do basically a single run before loosing all compression. Other channels have found loads of other major irreparable issues too.

[@IcecalGamer]

You can buy 2 SH Civics for that cash!!! And have enough leftover for gas home and a burger for the mate driving the other one :))

[@AmaroqStarwind]

Bad design.

[@apancher]

​@@AmaroqStarwindthat plus terrible quality control

[@WarpedYT]

Actually $4000 when it came out, now $3000, I haven't seen it for $2600

[@southern_merican]

​@@WarpedYTwow

[@LordSchnoz]

Ask any gunsmith, parts of this size always have huge issues with friction. The only thing you can do is polish every metal surface that touches another to an absolute mirror and make sure it is extremely well lubricated. A DLC coating (only a few microns, doesn't affect clearance and massively aids in both friction and wear resistance) may also help.

[@WarpedYT]

Your totally correct, that's a great point

[@poptartmcjelly7054]

I hope you don't polish your engine cylinders

[@92Jdmsupra]

@@poptartmcjelly7054 Did you just fail to read the "parts of this size?"

[@vp6.997]

This is smart, another good idea would be to give it actual oiling like a real engine it uses splash lubrication not forced oiling

[@huzudra]

Predicted response from the manufacturer: Hello customer please be advice this engine is for display only but not intend for work.

[@JohnChrysostom101]

Lol

[@nukewurld]

lmao bro this is gold, broken english and all

[@sixstringedthing]

"Thank You For Your Purchase The 50cc V12 Engine Is Education Puropse Only".

[@huzudra]

@@nukewurld How to tell everyone you shop Alibaba/Aliexpress without telling everyone you do.

[@dinmor2701]

This is what the manufacturer says on their webside: 7. This engine has a wide range of applications. It can be used for modifying large-scale model cars, ships, and tanks. It is also suitable as a desktop DIY work engine. 8. This is an impressive piece of mechanical craftsmanship. The engine's reliability and good working performance make it very popular among high-end engine model users, and it will receive more praise from model engine enthusiasts.

[@poptartmcjelly7054]

I think there are some ways to improve this engine. 1. replace rubber o-ring with a steel piston ring. Compression rings need pressure difference, otherwise they float. That o-ring is just making your compression ring float. 2. drill holes right under the second ring to serve as oil return holes, so that oil doesn't force it's way into the combustion chamber. 3. remake that manifold to suit the heads better. 4. widen the input ports more, because air resistance increases with the reduction of diameter cubed. That's right cubed. so a 2x smaller diameter will have 8x more resistance to flow. 5. lapping the valves should be an obvious step too. 6. make new compression rings. machine some cast iron down and make a ring, it's not that hard. You just need a small enough lathe. 7. check where the slop in those con rods is coming from, perhaps the caps can be sanded a little to improve clearance.

[@sixstringedthing]

@@poptartmcjelly7054 There is so much axial play in the big ends between the bearing caps/each other, not sure how you'd fix that without redesigning the block. I guess you could put some spacers/washers on the crank to pack out the play and just hope that they get enough lubrication from whatever oil is dropping out of the cylinders, but that's certainly not a reliable long-term solution.

[@chrismitchell9114]

Looks like challenge on! Machine the pistons and add two compression rings, smaller gaps and make a decent headgasket and open up the inlet and exhaust ports and see if you can make more power!

[@propstrikerc5551]

The company already did the hard work designing and manufacturing these engines to run and look good (inside and out). The R&D department were like 90% of the way to a good engine. If they had just put in that last 10% effort to improve the obvious issues (cooling, mechanical fatigue, bearing surfaces), these engines would have been extraordinary. Its like as if they just built the first prototype as sent it to market. The inline 4 just breaks the crank as soon as you apply load. If you get hold of a proper O.S. rc aero engine like the FSa 72, its a completely different animal. Built to do a job. Solid and powerful.

[@WarpedYT]

That's exactly what I am seeing as well. Oh yeah well the OS engines were made for a purpose.

[@dubsydubs5234]

The final 10% is where all the R&D expense goes, making one from an idea is easy working out and fixing all the flaws to make power is the real challenge and really expensive, you blow up a lot of engines getting everything out of it. They'd have to sell them for more than $15k and even then they wouldn't sell enough to make it worthwhile.

[@linuxguy1199]

Correction, the manufactuer only did the 10% needed to get it to run, the rest of the work they didn't do. Making an engine is cheap and easy, making an engine survive under load is incredibly difficult, time consuming and expensive. That's really the hard part, because it means you've gotta do multivaried testing, wear analysis, multiple revisions of each and every part, materials adjustment, bearing design and sizing, manufacturing analysis and adjustment, etc. An idiot with just a 3D printer + angle grinder can build an engine that runs.

[@propstrikerc5551]

​@@dubsydubs5234 For automotive applications I'd agree with you. But this is a display engine which typically doesn't need to take any load, and still people are having failures. For about half the price of this engine, you can buy a ums 7 cylinder radial engine of far superior quality. As an amateur model engine builder myself, I do understand what goes into developing an engine Vs just building one which runs. But I could never in good conscience put my name to such a poor line of engines and sell them to the public. I really don't think this engine (and others sold by the same manufacturer) needs much feedback and development to make them "fit for purpose" as a display engine.

[@tomsheppard1666]

The last one per cent takes ninety nine per cent of the effort.

[@sixstringedthing]

One really obvious flaw with the ring design (apart from only having a single compression ring) is that an o-ring sliding up and down inside a lubricated bore behaves very differently to the oil control rings in an actual engine. If you look at an actual piston you'll note that the oil control rings are either slightly thinner than the gap in which they're sitting (i.e. there's a tiny amount of vertical play between the ring and the lands) or they will be of a corrugated construction. Both of these designs allow the oil rings to flex/compress in both vertical directions as the piston moves up and down the bore, which allows them to "scrape" off a finely calculated quantity of oil (preventing the oil from building up and burning in the combustion chamber by literally scraping it back down into the crankcase) while still leaving a thin film behind to lubricate the compression rings; this is why they're called oil _control_ rings. I'm fairly certain that an o-ring compressed inside a bore is not going to behave like this, it's just going to try and pump any oil on the cylinder walls back and forth, back and forth (unless the o-ring is so undersized for the bore that it's basically doing nothing at all). After not very long, that compression ring will be pretty dry of oil and then it starts sacrificially honing the cylinder bore. I'm not an automotive engineer, but to make this thing run reliably at high revs and not eat itself I reckon you'd need to re-engineer the pistons/ring design to include at least one dedicated metallic oil control ring with the correct properties for high rpm operation, and two compression rings. Pistons in high performance engines also sometimes have small holes drilled through the bottom of the oil control ring gap into the little-end cavity to provide an additional drain path for scavenged oil at high rpm (these holes getting blocked by tar and deposits is a common cause of ring failure under high load on some engines). But I'd hope that it wouldn't be necessary to go to such an extent on the Mini V12. Cheers :)

[@CoLiC2]

You're embarking on a journey where you fix the design-flaws and then discover that another part of the engine can't cope with the new environment or increased power/torque and blows up :D

[@WarpedYT]

Maybe so but I won't put that much effort, I try to be very efficient. However if it blew up that would be amazing.

[@sixstringedthing]

"Iterate to destruction, then proceed". Like the techbro mantra of "move fast and break things", except in this case the only thing moving fast was those little pistons. :)

[@ejcrashed]

Very enlightening man, for an engine that costs the same as a real one i see too many questionable engineering decisions...

[@WarpedYT]

Questionable is the word.

[@brendanryan2663]

CNC machine, a good lathe and some time: You could probably fix most of the engineering issues quite easily. Youre right about the copper gasket... Id definately do something radical with the water pump. All that glitter in the oil is definately from those oversized bearing too...

[@WarpedYT]

I 100% agree, pretty simple to make it solid, I have a few ideas.gotta love glitter lol

[@AndrewduToit]

Fix it, but make it better.

[@haydenrapp6547]

First of all thank you for the amazing content! I wonder if McMaster has any type H snap rings that could be massaged to work as rings. Also it would be cool to see some intake port matching, maybe the a thinner stronger head gasket to increase compression, spacers for the connecting rods. If you get it running again it would be cool to see it ran on different types of fuels. Maybe methanol to help keep temps down? Thank you!

[@WarpedYT]

I was thinking the same

[@foureye7058]

Throwing it out there, in particular I was surprised when JohnnyQ90 did a super simple valve lapping, and it made a big difference in how well the engine behaved. Like other people are saying, the engines seem to be just barely functional models, meaning that things you would normally do on a real engine, instead just get skipped over during the manufacturing process.

[@WarpedYT]

Yes exactly, I vaguely remember seeing that on his channel but that was a different engine, the particular engine he fixed the valves on were known for having leaky valves, this particular engine the valves are very well sealed but like you said they skip over a lot of things or maybe they just don't know how to do them in the first place, not everybody knows everything.

[@Bill_Bacon]

A V12 is over the top for a miniature. The smaller an engine is, the more consequential and critical tolerances become. I would opt for Toyan engines IIWU. Valve lapping with jewelers rouge is a good start as well. (Blue Loctite is evil.)

[@Dividing-u3r]

could be wrong, I think those orings are making the ring run a bit dry. It removes all the oil from the cylinder wall and makes the ring not get any oil. wearing it down.

[@RobiB95]

The oil comes in from the carb. Its a oil mixed fuel.

[@thehomelessproject3784]

You should build the engine address all the weak points.. offset intake port... piston rings... and put a full exhaust on it with an x pipe... it'd be amazing

[@Genielamp25]

I remember someone commenting like this on the first video, and I think this video proves it true: this is just cheap chinese junk made expensive

[@WarpedYT]

Someone did in fact comment about that

[@LIVE3DPrinting]

I would like to see JohnnyQ90 re-machine these things with proper rings, cooling, intake/exhaust flow and proper lubrication, Colab? He has messed around with several of these engines too and the power output and reliability are trash. I'm more than sticker shocked with these things. Great video as always! Thanks!

[@WarpedYT]

I would invite him over to hang out, but a collab would be a waste of time, he's in Greece I'm in USA.

[@jake20479]

@@WarpedYT i think its quite unfair to say itd be a waste of time.

[@WarpedYT]

​@@jake20479collabs are mostly a waste of time nowadays, I have done multiple collabs with MrBeast and that was a not worth it either. Unless the other party can bring some sort of unique expertise or perspective to the video what's the point? I wouldn't gain anything. However I do have a current collab with bikes and beards but i am taking a completely 180 approach from the norm.

[@jake20479]

@@WarpedYT Mrbeasts audience has nothing in common to yours, theyre mostly kids. what you mentioned; unique expertise and perspectice is.. quite literally.. who youre saying is a waste of time. you two even have a similar audience. im sure it would be a big waste of time to take a small vacation to greece and make some money while doing it. yup... lmao bad take Warped. reconsider it.

[@adamr9215]

@@WarpedYTWhy would anyone do a collab with MrBeast? All the shady stuff with kids is plenty of reason to never deal with them.

[@GlobalFlyer]

This is what we called PMPO in the 90's for Hifi stuff 😂

[@sixstringedthing]

@@GlobalFlyer As a former AV tech I appreciate this comment. It's like PMPO, but for horsepower/mechanical reliability. 😁

[@f0x4nn3]

it looks like it has been build to be never be actually used

[@WarpedYT]

That's what I see too, maybe they're just built to start once in awhile as a novelty.

[@Cletrac305]

Exactly!! Yes! Mabey, the advertising department needs their butt kicked.

[@Carguylogan]

​@@WarpedYT Is it worth the price? There are a lot of intricate machined parts for sure but they also did some of it poorly like the intake manifold runners not being staggered and the use of cheap alloys that wear extremely fast

[@heavymetalrc7520]

Dude! Yes please! I wanna see you work your magic on that little engine.

[@discipleoftheword1785]

I watch, and enjoy your perspective. Thanks for a follow up video. I’m glad you’re not a hater, just call it straight.

[@UpVoltageOverclocking]

WOW ball bearings for the valve train!!! thats seems like a CRAZY good idea!!! im stunned by that!!!

[@TheCluelessEnthusiast]

I think these mini engines are cool and have a lot of potential, but if i owned the company that manufactures these engines i would hire this guy to iron out all the kinks. Maybe then it would run better and last longer before it needs to be pulled apart again

[@iselectrofic]

Love the video and the shout out to Project Farm, love that channel too!

[@monoracer_]

Great video i enjoyed these 2 episodes But if you are giving up on this engine then you should consider to send it to johnnyq90 to fix/improve all the issues that this engine has if he wants to do it I wanna see the real potential of this tiny v12 when its working perfectly. you already made a huge effort getting the engine managment right and i would find it a shame if you would throw this project into the bin already

[@lianwalton9194]

How about soft copper sheet-thin for the head gasket…? Simplest thing to try on the pistons-square oil control ring-finer compression ring-two of them…

[@ratgreen]

I'd love to see you rebuild it with a copper headgasket, better crank/flywheel and exhausts, bigger coolant lines, maybe mill the water passages deeper for more cooling. Not sure what you can do about the piston rings, maybe electroplate them for a long time to try build up their thickness ? Consider mixing some tungsten disulphide into the oil, every little helps in reducing friction on such small splash lubricated engines.

[@YourAverageGamer-s8n]

I have an idea for this engine, If you can find a small enough turbo. You might be able to attach it and see the difference between when the engine didn't have the turbo, and when it had the turbo!

[@WarpedYT]

You would think that would be possible, but as I mentioned in the video of some things don't scale down well, turbocharging is one of them, another guy on KZbin that mostly does like small model videos, he tried doing a little centrifugal supercharger that way, and it wouldn't work, I got frustrated and I did the video after telling him for many videos the right way to do it, you can see my video it's called compound supercharged mini inline 4 cylinder. You can see what I did

[@JoaoZagoSJC]

How was the finishing in the cylinder bores? Were they damaged? Were they honed or something like that? I think those piston rings were too thicker for the piston dimension.... Thanks for bringing this teardown to us!

[@jeremiahjorenby2275]

partner up with total seal and see if you can get some gapless piston rings

[@WarpedYT]

I love that idea, that would be a great collab I'm going to look them up now

[@WarpedYT]

Thanks

[@-Jethro-]

Hey, an extra episode of I Do Cars! Wait… that’s kind of small and you saved the water pump! 😂

[@fastinradfordable]

Ok the ball bearing lifter design is sick

[@TucsonDude]

Sick?

[@thegrey8643]

Oooo forbidden glitter! Oof!

[@JohnnyTiscali]

Sadly no piston nuggets :(

[@connerlabs]

@@JohnnyTiscali these tiny pistons are already nuggets. The 12 of them would barely fill a Kentucky Fried Piston box.

[@adf360]

Measure the gap thickness for the rubber o-ring, go buy a cast iron sleeve from Mellings, appropriately oversized. Cut three ridiculously thin rings, set the gaps, install them clocked 120 degrees apart in that gap. Do something similar for the top but set the rings in the cylinders and set the gap. You should be able to get 4-5 hp out of that puppy. Copper or even aluminum would be an upgrade to that head gasket. The cooling should be fine since the sploody bit only happens at the top of the cylinder. I think you are 100% spot on regarding the cooling, you just need more flow coming/going. Find a youtuber w/a CNC, get them to make you 12 custom pistons w/tiny rings, oil groove and all. Hope to see it brought back to life...

[@freeradical6390]

Next run try running Dumond Tech DTP Synthetic Racing 2 Cycle Oil. It makes fuel better! Also the way it was running it sounded lean, which will cause the motor to run hot.

[@WarpedYT]

Absolutely no surface to coolant area will make the engine flame up in no time, more important than being lean is the fact that you need surface area to transfer heat.

[@N301RCSTREETOUTLAWS]

I recently built a Cison V8, and the quality of that engine was vastly better. Shame this one has so many shortcuts.

[@N301RCSTREETOUTLAWS]

FYI the Cison has two compression rings, and an oil ring (and it's a double ring), all metal. I cannot believe this one actually uses a rubber ring, that is mind blowing.

[@damianmolisani1192]

The Supra does not have a open deck. The Supra has a closed deck. One of the reasons it holds so much power. The 2JZ in the MK4 and the B58 from the MK5 both have closed deck

[@nerfgodbigguy1405]

😌mmmm

[@ZMAN_420]

That's a good idea make a 200cc V-12. It would be built better , I hope lol

[@kevinolson5112]

Send the oil to Blackstone, that's what project farm does.

[@WarpedYT]

Ahh. Blackstone, I'm going to look them up now

[@TheColorsInGreyLife]

I am really excited to see where you go with this! Would love to see if you are able to cast/cnc a bunch of small piston heads. Don't know your plan for the rings, I also agree that stuff doesn't scale down super well, but spring steel that's flattened and coated with a electroless boron nitride might work if they can be flattened down into shape. Or maybe just better o-rings? Bearings are super needed though, which is hard but could be done with coated metal. The head gasket could be turned into a small part machined to fit into the open block part (like a small plate of steel that now makes a gasket), but that means getting deeper around the cylinders and getting a better coolant pump as well. All in all, the whole engine looks like it needs porting and tolerance tightened. For the money this engine is, I'm fairly certain you could just buy a good engine and rip it lol. I know you have a shop, but investing time into this would be rough when you've got a life to live. Maybe shocking it into a small scooter or bike for yourself or the kids would make it worth it. Anyways have a good one 👋😁

[@Behemoth33]

I'd get an engineering shop to turn you new rings, I'd probably split the compression rings in 2 separate compression rings then you fit both rings in that one ring land and clock the gaps of the rings 180° from each other

[@neutron-au]

The 180 degree idea is sort of a myth since the rings are free to rotate during engine operation, albeit not very much, they will still misalign themselves.

[@johnnodge4327]

It would be extremely difficult to machine rings that thin in cast iron, which is probably why they went with a single compression ring.

[@OnTheEdgeNow]

It would be very interesting to see you do a redesign to correct some of the flaws of this engine. I love watching you machine stuff in your shop.

[@arturozarate1752]

At least a copper head gasket. It's easy to cut and shape. I aneal all my copper gaskets before installing them. Easy to do with a yellow map gas bottle. Scratching my head about rings though.....hmmm🤔 Very cool what you're doing here!!

[@TucsonDude]

A copper head gasket would probably take too much clamping force for those tiny head bolts into that cheap aluminum block.

[@arturozarate1752]

@TucsonDude anealling softens it up...

[@oliverscorsim]

Just a few things the coolant jacket in the block doesn't matter its big enough for flow and as long as you have flow its fine the heat is in the head not the block atleast the bulk of it. The rings need replaced and you have the equipment to make some from some cast iron. I doubt their rimgs are anything fancy but i bet you could also cut razors to make a much better set. The oil control ring oring deal is wise. I doubt your cooling issues were from anything you pointed out but rather the smaller a centrifugal compressor ie water pump is in dia the worse they are. It was cavitating for sure. Id bet a turbo an electric windshield pump or two makes it go away and run cool. I bet if you check the valves they dont seal very well atleast from other rc stuff iv seen theres a good 20-30% more power in cleaning up the ports and a valve job. Its under carbed too.. i would really love to see you do a clean up and rebuild with improvements and see what it does. I bet a new intake mani and some more carb with a little port work some good rings and a valve job would net atleast 100% more power. You might find measuring the piston thats in it and comparing it to the os 4stroke motors and see if its something off the shelf or maybe even an upgrade on the pistons and rings if the pin height is the same along with dia and bore and compression height although i bet you can get a bit more cr out of it without having to worry about ptv. Actually if your interested comment and ill give you contact info i own a small business and im not hard to find 😅 if youd be interested in sending that to me or bringing it id be really happy to do the stuff i suggested so you can dyno it and make a vid. Alittle context iv made a 155cc compound turbo bike thats done 100+whp and over 100psi of boost.. iv been racing and building all my life id be willing to donate my time and equipment and if you feel inclined to make a vid of the work i dont mind one bit but i ask that we keep certain parts of the shop off camera as i do grudge race that bike and have a whole r&d project going on with it and about 3 other bikes iv built in the same program. I bet we can get 150% stock power and you already did the ignition system it needed terribly.

[@WarpedYT]

Wow, well to start I don't agree 100% about the cooling, it needs much more surface area, aluminum doesn't have the highest thermal coefficient it better than cast iron but those cylinders should be surrounded with coolant just like on a 2JZ or other open deck engine. The issue I saw right away is that it had plans of coolant flowing, but the temperature difference of the coolant going into the engine and coming out of the engine was very slight, maybe 10°F, that's telling me immediately that there is no heat exchange going on inside the engine, to make you visualize that better, take the current passage and keep on minimizing that surface area, how small could you go until there's absolutely no heat exchange at all?. That's why very high horsepower engines have the cylinders pretty much submerged in coolant with the open deck. As for the other stuff that definitely sounds interesting, I just don't know when I'm going to get back to this V12, I have so many more videos that I'm back logged on because of my injury a year ago... I just got back to filming a few weeks ago and I'm feeling better now and I have a lot of work to do, I definitely want to check out that 100 horsepower 100 PSI bike, that sounds absolutely insane please send me a link.

[@ASFerreira]

I cannot understand why this video didn’t appeared in my KZbin feed, since I have the bell engaged 🤷🏻‍♂️ 1:02

[@WarpedYT]

KZbin has trouble figuring out diversity lol. AI especially has trouble with that. Thanks

[@andersmalmgren6528]

Would be awsome to see you get it to run with a reliable conpression

[@WarpedYT]

It ran really well in the Dyno video kzbin.info/www/bejne/amO5dqR6dpmlfsksi=V-QqWAl2x9pO-VYv

[@andersmalmgren6528]

@WarpedYT yeah, but compression went away. I ment find a way to keep compression over more than a single run :)

[@estonianperson1112]

It would be awesome to see a dyno run on the CISON V8 OHV small block. Its made to be a lot more reastic and looks to be much better built

[@WarpedYT]

I like that idea

[@Ole_CornPop]

It ran good powering RC Testflight's paddleboard.

[@N301RCSTREETOUTLAWS]

I can confirm that the Cison is far better in design and quality. I'm a little shocked at how bad this one actually was. There are a couple of things with the Cison that I feel need improvement, but it's minor.

[@WarpedYT]

@@N301RCSTREETOUTLAWS what do you think needs improvement on the Cison ?

[@N301RCSTREETOUTLAWS]

@@WarpedYT Instructions! LOL. Ok, first, the lifters are for some reason a machined part with a threaded hole that takes a socket cap nut that's used for the pushrod capture. That should just be one machined piece. The plug wires aren't the best either. The block has 4-bolt mains, but they give you 2 bolt bearing caps. Couple of minor clearance issues with the cooling system but I managed to get clips on. Otherwise a pretty fantastic little engine.

[@stevemccauley5734]

How come we went from Warped Perception to just Warped? What did I miss? lol. I knew I hadn’t seen much from you for a while & then this channel name popped up.

[@WarpedYT]

I cut the name down to make it more marketable, Warped Perception is just too long and I stuck with that name when I was doing mostly slow motion videos because many people were squatting on the handles, I need to start releasing my products now and upload a lot more videos, that gives me that flexibility. Warped perception is just a mouthful. But Warped Was my original show name. I'm changing it now before I blow up the channel. Hopefully it didn't throw you off.

[@StigDesign]

i hope you rebuild this engine and make it awesome perhaps even a compressor to it too :D

[@slipknot1943]

You could stance out metal gasket from thin sheet. Then there is only 99 more things to solve

[@alexvanherwijnen5343]

It's nice and interesting to see you fix it, but, if not, you can always donate it to me haha.

[@joaovitordejesusrocha7346]

Well.just put some oring on the place off the metal ring ,and start this beast again

[@WarpedYT]

That's what I was thinking but I have a another idea in mind

[@manutd4ever_0019]

If you see metal sprinkles on the oil pan your engine is effed

[@WarpedYT]

Usually how it goes haha

[@Slikx666]

Trying to get some good performance out of that engine would definitely be worth it.

[@erikcourtney1834]

Wow that’s built cheaply. A paper headgasket🤣🤣. A lot of improvements could be made… but then you’ll have a $10,000 engine that’s still to small to do anything with. Maybe put in an rc car but that’s about it.

[@WarpedYT]

Yeah that's the issue, only 50cc

[@ABoringTool]

If you could achieve power density of z06 or 458, about 130hp per liter, you could get 6.5hp, or 4.7kw. You would need it to rev really high, but that should be possible with proper materials at this scale. And that would easily move a human at good speed in a light go kart, bike, or trike.

[@gradystephenson3346]

A lot of 2 stroke engines are less than 50cc I'd expect that v12 to be at least as powerful as a chainsaw

[@Giuliana-w1f]

​@@gradystephenson3346yeah, but it's a 4 stroke, and has way higher cylinder count (less torque); combined with the small valves and poorly flowing ports, i'm not sure it would do half of what a cheap 50cc 2 stroke would do

[@gradystephenson3346]

@@Giuliana-w1f true that's a good point plus a paper headgasket and crap rings didn't help poor design for the price

[@davidwickboldt712]

It needs a lot of modifications to make any kind of power reliably.

[@WarpedYT]

I agree.

[@DaveFromColorado]

Take a look at total seal rings and how they do their ring design and find out if somebody can make a ring that small for you because that little V12 has a lot of potential Imagine that 50cc V12 in place of a standard 50cc on a moped come on that would be awesome. I know the KZbin channel 2 stroke stuffing took the little 4-cylinder engine that toy in engines was sending out to all the creators and he adapted it to run a moped until the crankshaft broke.

[@TucsonDude]

That's not the purpose of these novelty engines. A small 2-stroke engine is far more practical.

[@DaveFromColorado]

@TucsonDude look at what warped has already done to it just to get the ignition working properly.... I don't think practicality is something he is looking for right now, just originality and fun.

[@reetspetit]

Great work. Here's hoping you can improve it. Bigger diameter water pipe for starters!

[@lescrooge]

Definitely needs a rebuild.

[@jbmorris2893]

On a related note… I kinda want to see you dyno the Kohler 3-cylinder diesel engine that you used in your Tesla video.

[@TestECull]

Piston rings CAN work on such small sizes. OS Engines made an FS-20 4-cycle with a ringed piston that is reliable, powerful, long lived. It only displaces 3cc and change. The key difference is they're using a much more oil heavy fuel than this engine uses, and also have attention to quality.

[@WarpedYT]

That's a great point but the O.S engines have countless hours invested in the ring designs alone, and probably very very tight tolerances, if this thing had that type of design I think it would be a different story.

[@WarpedYT]

Also that 2-cycle fuel with oil really seals things up from the top down, I would imagine as it compresses it doesn't have enough time to squeeze through the gap before the next combustion event.

[@TestECull]

@WarpedYT Nitro fuel in them, but ye. Point is rings CAN work this small if everything is engineered correctly. Almost makes me wonder if rejetting this V12 for glow fuel and running some Omega 15% would do it any favors 🤔 relies on a new set of rings, but you aren't out of luck there either. RMJWorx makes rings for RC engines that are world class quality I bet they could come up with a set for this engine.

[@TestECull]

@@WarpedYT Yep. That's the engineering that goes into them, why I prefer buying OS and Saito hahahaha. I know I buy an OS or Saito it's going to fire right up first flip of the prop and it's gonna run like a sewing machine for the next 30 or 40 years. It would be fascinating to see the OS FF-320 compared to this V12 in terms of power, but I'm not sure how you'd keep it from overheating on the dyno. It's meant to be cooled by airflow from the prop and from the forward flight of the airplane it's bolted to, which doesn't work on a dyno.

[@Leonardokite]

Yeah it looks like with that answered you mostly paid for cool. And not cooling either LOL since that appeared to be rather nebulous. And I can't imagine rubber o-rings sealing the piston for very long. Definitely a novelty engine not a engine to actually do anything. But you sure had a lot of fun with it! And I appreciate your commentary as you tore it down.

[@nerfgodbigguy1405]

😂😂

[@CmmdrKitty]

Check out Enjomors D6 its over engineered. 2 compression rings, 1 oil control ring. Crankshaft has guide bearings hugging the crank that then rides on bigger roller bearings. DOHC setup with roller bearing rocker arms. Even the connecting rods ride on a dedicated bearing. Its impressive for a 1000 engine. I have videos of it torn down on my channel.

[@WarpedYT]

I'm going to check that out I think I have one

[@Red_Knight_66]

He should design and produce engines like these and sell them.

[@Giuliana-w1f]

It already has coils bigger than the engine itself, why not add electric pumps for both water and oil? It would probably need some kind of custom sump to cope with the extra flow tho

[@WarpedYT]

Those coils are from the dyno setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/amO5dqR6dpmlfsksi=V-QqWAl2x9pO-VYv they are not practical at all.

[@Giuliana-w1f]

@@WarpedYT exactly my point. It's not practical at all already, so go crazy with everything else surrounding the engine if you fix it

[@andrewt9204]

I think you're right about it being too small to scale properly. I'm thinking ~10cc per cylinder is the smallest practical size for any kind of actual use. Well, for anything other than a nitro 2-stroke. If this was a 4 cylinder, that would probably be a lot more reliable. (if designed well of course) It would be cool to have a 100cc V8, put that on a go cart....

[@Cletrac305]

It was neat to see this experiment. Thanks! However I do not know how it was advertised, but having known several miniature engine builders and attending the model Internal Cumbustion Engine show in Detroit for several years and receiving their publications, you hardly EVER see any that are intended to power ANYTHING, mabey an RC aircraft for awhile. They are meant to run for mabey 30 seconds to a minute at a time to hear the sound. Otherwise, the ports and all the things you pointed out would be much different. They are choked down to prevent overspeed. The whole point 30+ years ago was the amazing miniturazation and being built from prints scaled down or new designs on tooling, machines, and molds that had to be HAND BUILT before CNC and 3D printing. They had to make their own crank grinders and cam grinders that used a full-size cam for a pattern, make their own rings and sometimes spark plugs. I have seen running engines with the spark plug bodies made from .020 piano wire! They may take YEARS to build. Now, it's just expected to plop down a credit card and buy a 50cc V12 and have it run 9,000 hours at full load as a replacement for a 50cc single cylinder in your moped? That wasn't the point. It's kinda like AI vs. Michelangelo. As a heavy duty engine mechanic who owns a 702 GMC V12 I can tell you that adding all the features to make it a viable engine would make it cost $10k at least, and then because of the rpm it may last 50hrs. It's a torpedo motor at that point. I was surprised it lasted as long as it did, especially with all that weight on the crank. Thats about 2 scale tons. But again, great video, and thanks for putting in the time and $!😊

[@mikejones8866]

Designed for single use, then it becomes a $3,000 paperweight.

[@nautique1970]

Knowing how intellectual you are I’m sure you’ll rebuild this properly & get a much better performance from it!

[@WarpedYT]

Thank you

[@manuelpiston]

You should definitely fix it!

[@texastaterbug5395]

Have you seen RC Test Flight's video using one of these (the V8 I think) to power a paddleboard?

[@WarpedYT]

I have not

[@texastaterbug5395]

@@WarpedYT kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2jCdnemotuNh7csi=266QPPmp7OfJuaX_

[@allenstratton5399]

I see a multi series on the rebuild and modification of this bad boy. Headgasket, rings, bearings, cooling, and maybe just maybe forced induction. :)

[@dieguerrero]

I don't think any of these mini engines are designed to power anything. Just for occasional short runs as a demo or novelty item. What you did was interesting, but pretty obvious it was going to fail.

[@dankrzeminski6370]

I made one that is built just like you said they should have built the one you’re reviewing, it cost $500,000 I’ll be waiting for your order.

[@Goblemeistervideos]

I’m still waiting for someone to do a asmr-style unbox, build and first start with one of these mini V12’s. I’ve seen videos of the 7cc I2, couple different I4’s, an old I6, F4, and V8 but no V10 or V12

[@patrickdufresne8485]

A rubber o-ring for a piston ring. That's hi-spec.

[@slyscafe]

Lmfao at the subtle tongue-in-cheek jab at projectfarm

[@QualityCraftsmen]

Bet that head gasket is your compression issue.

[@WarpedYT]

Probably part of it I did see a little bit of coolant in the oil

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

I would like to see how that OHC/lifter mech scales up. It looks like it has potential.

[@joshacollins84]

I would love to see you redo this engine and fix it's short comings. I know that would be pretty time intensive though

[@Berm_Blaster]

Hope to see you rebuild and improve it. Would ne be a fun project to follow

[@AnirudhTammireddy]

how can a company not even test a design before manufacturing?

[@dinosshed]

I think it's relying on those rubber o rings to do 100% of the sealing. Those rings are just there for fluff and make you feel better about the purchase. I would utilise a DLC coating with no rings and maybe see what fits in the block from the nitro r/c engines.

[@tarvintransparencymedia]

Lol I just noticed this when you took the head gasket off. Your heads aren't liquid cooled just the block. If you run it too long where the head s blow out the exhaust they build heat. That's why there is ports from the block through the head gasket to the cylinder head and I ain't seen. I mean it's early on but I ain't seeing no oil parts that push oil to the cylinder heads. I'll keep watching almost at the end but I ain't seeing no oil ports or any cooling parts the cylinder had. The cylinder heads are just independent from the head gasket up.

[@WarpedYT]

I think you are correct

[@volvo09]

Those engines are definately not made to last. People want to see one in an RC car, but it would just be a dissapointment because the engine would wear out after a couple tanks of gas.

[@WarpedYT]

That's why I haven't done it yet

[@volvo09]

@WarpedYT yep, you proved how much of an expensive toy they are in the dyno video and this teardown.

[@lianwalton9194]

Ha cool-enjoy your topics and content-you are very thorough-I’ve seen other guys install these wee engines in RC cars-with very limited success-what power is there appears to be unusable somehow-they look like they should produce-but they don’t-unsatisfying it’s sure-good luck with it-I’ll be looking in…

[@victorkrivor2174]

I believe there is a larger version of this engine, around 72cc that may have a better design. There is also a 320cc pushrod V8 that has a proper pressurized oiling system and bearings, It's made by Chuang-qi

[@WarpedYT]

Is that the Toyan one or Cison?

[@victorkrivor2174]

@@WarpedYT Just looked it up, It's the ENJOMOR V12 GS-V12 72CC, Quad cam (Not sure if it's 4 valve)

[@nerfgodbigguy1405]

​@@WarpedYT yeah. That v12 Is significantly better than this one, and actually built to run.

[@LimitlessBricks]

He is better than MrBeast

[@TheCluelessEnthusiast]

I agree 100%. This dude knows his shit and is easy to understand when explaining things, even for noobs like myself. Lol. Any of his videos involving engines are cool and i also love his "mythbusters" style videos. This dude is a wealth of knowledge

[@WarpedYT]

Hey ... I did a bunch of the MrBeast projects, did you know ?

[@WarpedYT]

Thanks! I appreciate that, I'm trying to get back on those videos now, I was working on Mr beast projects from 22 to 23, then I suffered a brain injury in Aug 23 and I am just recently recovering enough to start getting creative again.

[@LimitlessBricks]

You’re better than MrBeast KZbin channel

[@adamr9215]

@@WarpedYTDon’t ever deal with MrBeast. Have you not heard about what him and his friends like to do with little kids?

[@danielhunziker3577]

It's actually a shame. They would have so much potential! The engines are not badly produced, but the design isn't finished. What I don't get is that they could have simply gone and looked at Saito or OS motors and copied the functional components. An O-ring as a piston ring is a NoGo, no connecting rod bearings is a NoGo, ... also a non-functioning ignition on delivery, a NoGo... this for 3'000 US$!? No thanks!

[@pontiacg445]

Most OEM engine bearings are made from aluminum ata the contact surface. If you have aluminum connecting rods, then no bearings are perfectly fine. As proof, pretty much any lawnmower ever has no connecting rod bearings, and commercial big cube lawnmower engines expected to last 3000+ hours are no exception.

[@adamr9215]

@@pontiacg445You have never taken apart a lawn mower, have you? I’ve never seen one without rod bearings.

[@pontiacg445]

@@adamr9215 I've taken apart more than you've probably ever operated. Most recently, an ECH730-3064 in an exmark navigator, a nearly 20K lawn mower. Go ahead and look up the parts diagram and get me a part number for the conrod bearings you novice.

[@adamr9215]

@ Lmao, you are bragging about that to a guy who builds pro mod engines for a living. FYI, my ExMark has a Perkins diesel and it’s got conrod bearings. So do all of the B&S engines I built for jr dragsters. So has every go cart engine I have built since I was a kid to the present. So, I don’t know what cheap junk you are playing with, but everything I’ve seen has rod bearings. Predator engines from Harbor Freight have rod bearings.

[@danielhunziker3577]

@@pontiacg445 Hi man 😃 You're right! There are special aluminum casting alloys available which have an optimum friction characteristics under heavy stress, for example ENAC 48000. This material is suitable for pistons or, as you say, for bearingless connecting rods. But do you believe that high-end aluminum cast alloys were used in this China model engine?

[@slojoegtstang5775]

with new rings, lube the cylinders with ATF. It has a friction agent in it that helps the rings seat. You dont want alot clearly but that looks like a seating/brake in issue. With a motor that small im sure its not going to be easy to brake it in. One thing is for sure, you cant do it the way it was done. The compression is all over the place. The fuel being used doesnt help.

[@dubsydubs5234]

Put the top ring as the oil ring and make 2 thin rings for the compression ring.

[@michaelmcginnis9029]

Im a gun lover and seeing that piston ring gives me a thought. If its do able look at the bolt and the gas rings on an ar style rifle that might me a set up for you one of the ar platform sizes may work like the 450 or 308 bolt maybe big enough.

[@GAMINGOBRIEN69]

i cant wait until you can give this thing 50 hp

[@cedhome7945]

If I had the time and skill I would improve all the faults and fit it into a r/c mustang. 50cc should make 5hp I would think

[@Poorschedriver]

Honestly after seeing the "headgasket" and "piston rings", I can't believe it ran at all. I'd be curious to see what the camshafts look like. Also don't assume that the valves and valve seats are cut correctly. Given the shoddy manufacturing I wouldn't be surprised if you're losing compression there as well.

[@WarpedYT]

That's a great point, maybe I should lap the valves.

[@Poorschedriver]

@@WarpedYT I had an engine that had sat for about 10 years. It ran when pulled but over time moisture caused pitting on the seats and made weak compression. Tight valve seal is crucial and judging by the shoddy machining I'm sure you can improve them dramatically. Good luck!

[@Williamxmr]

It would be so sick to make improvements to it and get it to last a bit

[@WarpedYT]

That's what I'm going to try

[@carlosschagun6922]

Try the Enjomor V12 GS-V12, it's a 72CC V12 DOHC engine...

[@nerfgodbigguy1405]

It's WAY BETTER , we have to keep telling him to get this one. Only if this was his first choice.

[@lianwalton9194]

Regarding your observation that it is cooled only part of the way down the cylinders-of course you know that heat is mostly found near the top of the stroke and in the head as combustion and exhaust are the heat-near the bottom of the stroke is largely heat manifested through friction-the other forms of energy produced by friction being light and sound …

[@WarpedYT]

Yeah I got that, but it's still a fact of coolant surface area, I have quite a bit of experience in this field and I can tell you that little tiny groove quarter of a way down is not enough surface contact area for the coolant to pull heat out of that engine at a sufficient rate, even with an 80 to 100° difference in temperature the energy transfer just is not there, and that means that the engine will overheat no matter what unless you provide some other means of cooling. They only did it that way so they can call it liquid cooled, but in reality it's not liquid cooled.

[@lianwalton9194]

Of course you are correct-I agree fully…

[@martinzhang5533]

For the price they are asking they really should go the extra mile and make it more polished of a product. But these model engines are obviously show pieces and not to meant to do any real work or run with actual load. at 4.16cc per cylinder the relative surface area to displacement is too big and most of the fuel energy is just heating the engine up, and the cooling would never be sufficient under load with the tiny pump and pipe. From other model engines it seems like about 6-8 cc per cylinder minimum is needed for a gasoline model engine to run properly

[@WarpedYT]

That's a great point of theory, you may be absolutely right about the surface area to displacement, that makes a lot of sense.