Bolt Cutters Croppers vs. Pragmasis Protector Almax Immobiliser 16mm Chain Cut with Angle Grinder.

[@basincut100]

Love to see the cutting scene done again in real world conditions without using a vice.

[@chaxologist2024]

The vice replicates the worst case scenario/most ideal conditions for the thief because sometimes, the chain could be flat on the floor if given enough slack to which the thief has a clamp to work on.

[@peaknet9095]

Why did you position the first cut at the nose of the cutter? More force close to the fulcrum...

[@noise172]

Pragmasis chains are the best chains money can buy, they are a serious bit of kit......

[@-Turtl3_]

Depends on the thickness, when we're talking about 12-14mm chains, the ones from Pewag seem to be superior.. but that's just my guess from what I've seen so far.

[@gonnahavemesomefun]

Would chainsaw-proof clothing protect the chain from a grinder? If the chain were wrapped in the same material?

[@josephlee1646]

-Turtl3_ the 12mm Pewag security chain seemed to fare better than the Pragmasis 16mm chain with the angle grinder. The Pewag’s case hardening appears to result in much harder steel.

[@harrygilbert3738]

@@gonnahavemesomefun No, Kevlar used in chainsaw clothing is only to give the chainsaw operator a few seconds of reaction time before penetrating. An angle grinder blade will penetrate in no time.

[@bitTorrenter]

3 mins in and I'm thinking , "Get on with it!"

[@airsofter2247]

Thanks for doing the test bud, but those blunt ass croppers are the equivalent too a Grandma with no dentures going at a tough steak

[@appliancerepairshorts]

Actually with that kind of force, regular chains would snap like not. Those are massive cutters with more than human human force pushing them

[@MrRainbird86]

so what chain can be angle grinder resistant n bolt proof etc that's what I need Wayne

[@dfpguitar]

almax do 22mm chain. it weighs 1kg per link! that's about 45lb for the chain. That is as good as you are going to get but the sad reality is that highly capable cutting tools are so accessible now. Also you would struggle to find anything in the street as sturdy as even the 16mm chain to lock up to. At home you have many other things to add security, but out on the street you just have to accept the risk. It's like the possibility of dying each time you get in a car, you just accept the risk and drive diligently as possible. Do likewise for securing your stuff. Put it in a low risk spot and don't leave it too long. Also multiples of even lower quality locks can be very useful.

[@ihgvjihnfgiobvhdegui]

Any 16mm chain is bolt proof. No chain is angle grinder resistant.

[@michealangel1556]

muhammed ali that’s not true a chain made with swirls will deform the angle grinders cut and break it

[@mrgreatauk]

I guess if you could get a 100mm chain that would be thick enough that most portable angle grinders wouldn't be able to cut all the way though before hitting the spindle. You'd need a forklift truck to put it round your bike though XD

[@adrianotero7963]

I use their 16mm with their round spinning lock.....have kept by motorcycles safe for 7 years....

[@vosaaudits]

Wayne, another great informative video. Thanks for sharing. it's made my choice of chains better because you address the issues we all are asking about the security ratings of each chain

[@waynewinton]

thx!

[@dancjtheone]

Hey man, when are you gonna do a test with the Abus Granit Extreme Plus 59 Lock-Chain 12mm??? lookin forward to see that...

[@rajindernijjer]

RevNoise thats not as strong but all chains can be cut its got a good lock

[@iamneallyons4263]

@@rajindernijjer they can with power tools not with bolt cutters - anything 16mm and above you aint getting through with manual bolt cutters.

[@rajindernijjer]

@@iamneallyons4263 no one going to carry massive bolt cutters.

[@iamneallyons4263]

@@rajindernijjer that's what I'm. On about these are massive bolt cutters in the video and they fail to get through the chain.

[@rajindernijjer]

@@iamneallyons4263 not all bolt cutters are equal nore is the man behind them

[@Free__Speech]

Cut at the weld join with grinder & makes cutting it a lot easier & getting it off

[@fallback8314]

anyone know if a 16mm u-lock is equally as strong as a 16mm chain? i have a u-lock from onguard but i don't know if i really like it. i also have a 12mm 3.5ft chain. i can only keep one. any suggestions as to which one should go?

[@BritishArmyTributes]

A 16mm U lock is probably going to be weaker than a comparable chain, but it depends on the brand. Any U lock which doesn't have a double deadbolt locking mechanism on both sides will probably only require one cut to defeat. There may be enough free play in the shackle, allowing the chain to be removed after a single cut Personally I'd keep the chain! But depends on your luggage setup etc. A potentially weaker yet utilised U lock is better than a strong chain that sits at home because it's a pain to carry!

[@tecsto7069]

Is true that the welded part of the chain link is stronger? (I heard some people who says its weakest others strongest) what is the truth?

[@kevinsantiago4462]

Wayne, two questions here... First, was difference in time to cut through this chain & the Pewag 3012 significant? And second, what Padlock would you recommend for this Pragmasis 16mm chain? Originally, before watching this video you convinced me on going with the 12mm Pewag 7/16'' 3012 along w/ that Stanley Padlock w/ custom ASSA ABLOY key lock you have on your site. But now, like you stated on this video...The more steel there is to cut, the longer it will take to cut through w/ a grinder. Looking forward to your reply, thanks!

[@adrianotero7963]

I have their 16mm chain with their round spinning lock....unbeatable combination for over 7 years...

[@snkneo-geo933]

I just bought that 16mm Chain and RoundLock for £150 👍

[@handikappad]

Almax is the company that cut competitors locks with bolt cutters in no time?

[@ronanrogers4127]

Why are American garages almost always unpainted and with visible sheet rock plaster joints? How hard is it to roll on some cheap white paint?

[@williamyates5410]

Which one to buy from the uk 🇬🇧 almax or pragmasis great chanel by the way

[@johnnacionimaging8740]

Hi @wayne thanks for the great videos!

[@willybee3056]

What kind of machinery do you have to run the bolt cutters?

[@waynewinton]

chain come along

[@jdb7653]

Hi from the uk here great channel and thanks for testing these chains, the Almax and pragmasis chains look similar but they have differences the Almax is case hardened and the pragmasis is through hardened so would be great if you could test and compare both if you manage to get hold of a Almax in the us. I bought the Almax 16mm first as I could not get hold of the pewag in the uk I have since found a supplier for pewag in the uk so have both now and the pewag is so much better for carrying on my motorbike. Using a cisa shutter lock at the moment what do think of shutter padlocks? Thanks

[@waynewinton]

NP

[@tubbby1994]

JDB I'm also in uk. Where did u get the pewag from?? I've not been able to find it yet

[@channelnotavailable32]

The current pragmasis is now case harden like the almax, same black weather treatment anti corrosion layer. I bought the 19mm 2.5m chain and am very happy with it. My only complaint was the sleeve the chains come in are affixed with a zip tie. For a $300+ chain that was a "bruh c'mon" moment. Was easy enough to outfit it with snap clasps for easy removal and cleaning.

[@PeriphVision]

Pragmasis and Almax ARE manufactured differently. You may think it "odd" Wayne. But it IS "to do with the hardening processes of the metals". There are "a couple of things going on" as you say!

[@cprn.]

Did you try to use hydraulic tools? Neighbour of mine lost his Kawasaki because he thought it's safe in his garage chained with Almax IV to an anchor. He left for a weekend and when he got back he found destroyed garage door with two 14mm holes the chain with cut link. Police annalist said thieves shot bolts through the door and ripped them out with their van, then cut the chain with a hydraulic rebar cutter that apparently leaves specific marks. Another neighbor's security camera recorded the van passing one way and back 22 minutes apart so it was quick too.

[@mjh5437]

The jaws of those bolt cutters are all dented and blunt,no wonder they wouldn`t cut the chains really.

[@TheObimara]

This will soon be my transport - i.e. not recreation or sport - bicycle security set up: + An anti-theft nut for the front wheel, one on each side, as it's not QR; + The shortest chain possible, as it will allow me to use a thicker and thus more theft-resistant chain*; + A suitable shrouded lock for that chain (so there's a tight fit); + A ring lock for the rear wheel - this is standard on e.g. Dutch city bikes. It functions as a low-security immobilizer when you just need to lock up for a second, like at an ice cream truck with a big crowd of kids in front, or of course a taco truck -- either so your bike isn't in the way and so your hands can be free. *In other words, something with no further reach than a mini u-lock. The UK stockist for the Pragmasis sells individual links, two links and three links together. (The USA stockist doesn't show this on its website... but perhaps it's possible to get one...) It's possible that with a pad lock the three links can be enough. What? What's needed to make this work is well-designed bicycle rack! Fight for your city to get something like this: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Davis_Bike_Rack.jpg

[@willybee3056]

Oops .. now I see..How much , if any, would you gain in mechanical advantage by using a grease gun to pump into a cylinder?

[@Nekminute]

Yeah we need explosive chains vs those grinders

[@gonnahavemesomefun]

Would chainsaw-proof clothing protect the chain from a grinder? If the chain were wrapped in the same material?

[@pauls9440]

gonnahavemesomefun chainsaw clothing is made so gum up the blade links with nylon so that won’t work.

[@doooofus]

@@pauls9440 why not? does something about chainsaws make them more susceptible than angle grinders to gumming up when exposed to nylon or something? my only understanding of this stuff comes through people testing gear in videos so im not saying youre wrong or anything, just looking for answers

[@bazzaroberts8748]

In the order of hardness materials diamond cuts granite. The bolt cutters they use are super hard. Why can’t chains be made that hard like the first chain? These chains I bet pull ships😊

[@sbaxter4207]

With all that force, would a suit of armour be overklil? At least a police riot protection vest that covers the privates too.

[@AlexRocks24-7]

fantastic . many thanks

[@sdfglkjhdfkjdhldskfj]

So 16mm is 1 minute, in ideal conditions. 19mm is 20% more steel, so 40% longer cutting time, i.e. 1.4 minutes. Still not very long. I have 2 x 19mm chains and a D1000 D lock, with 2 x Litelok X3's coming in 2 months.

[@larrysfarris]

Excellent video! (thanks)

[@willybee3056]

Good job,,, but will anything resist being frozen with Liquid Nitrogen?

[@pcruz112]

That's just Hollywood stuff , doesn't actually work in an reasonable application.

[@doooofus]

maybe liquid nitrogen is but freeze spray is something criminals using hand tools actively use (if bennetts' website is to be believed)

[@iamneallyons4263]

im a steel worker by trade man an anything 16mm and above you arent going through it with bolt cutters, it needs to be power tools.

[@TheGeezzer]

@@juanbaclavab Hi, No, bolt croppers can't cut through the CEN5 rated Abus Granit 37RK/80, its 14mm "through hardened" Boron Alloy shackle is just too tough at 65HRC with 8 tons tensile/torsion resistance! Made from a solid billet of hardened steel, hacksaws, crowbars and sledgehammers can piss-off too! Tested to -40 degrees centigrade impact strength, only angle grinders or oxy-acetalyne torches or a 10-ton power-press pose any significant threat to this padlock!

[@iamneallyons4263]

@@juanbaclavabprobably not no, not with a significant setup - your not going to do it on the fly with a pair of bolt cutters put it that way probably the same with 14mm toughened/hardened chains - the devil is oxy-acetalyne or a grinder, you will always get through using those things BUT certain steel will contain elements that can significantly slow down grinders and wear the blades out quicktime - if a thief has to resort to using a grinder etc then it becomes a noisy job, thieves want to be in and out undetected - another thing is rather than a ground anchor, use a wall anchor - you have nothing to really leverage any bolt cutters off when something is off the floor. Ultimately everything is about slowing them down and deterring them.

[@Luca_Munz]

Anyone here use 14mm over 16mm? Just bought 16 but it looks like it’s going to be a pain to take with me

[@youtubetrucker8203]

Dude, that bolt cutter won't even cut cheese.

[@blackcrow4414]

@Ed It has been seriously abused in past testing, did you see the dents in the jaw? But I'd say it should still be able to cut non-hardened bolts.

[@joshosman6309]

How's that Milwaukee grinder going looking into buying one

[@chevymudding01]

Joshua Osman They make the best power tools out there

[@waynewinton]

best tool on the market

[@superjohn8091]

Battery Powered Bolt Cutter

[@6lr6ak6]

Cordless angle grinder with 1mm cutting disc piss through the lot of um.

[@doooofus]

yeah unfortunately looks like that's the case lol, truth to it is you cant leave a bike locked up outside any more unless you have eyes on it the whole time e.g. youre at a pub with outdoor seating facing the street.

[@davecox900]

cut it on the floor without the vice not 2 mins my man

[@sbaxter4207]

Not only do you damage chains you damage your bolt cutters too, owch, expensive.

[@martingriego6800]

Dude u need fresh bolt cutters ,not gud test

[@FedeGherbaz]

is it pragmasis or almax ? are the same brand?

[@airsofter2247]

Pragmasis, he said he couldnt get his hands on the almax but thinks they would be comparable

[@CrazyBikerGuy]

16mm isnt even there hardest. their 19mm is stupid (in a good way).

[@liegebeestje7903]

there is also a 22mm model

[@kenr6715]

If 19mm is stupid, what about their 25mm ?

[@doooofus]

@@liegebeestje7903 ive seen almax make 25mm chains too (think theyre pretty new actually, probably came out more recently than ur comment). beyond that and you're dealing with the kind of chains they use for big fack off ships that would just be unwieldy for bikes

[@doooofus]

@@kenr6715 lol didnt even see your comment about the 25mm chain before i left mine, yeah i mean cross sectional area would be 490mm^2 so i'd have guessed about 2.5min to cut thru, hardly seems worth it for all the extra weight i'd have to lug around but better than nothing i guess.

[@adenlamb9916]

the pragmasis 16mm is pretty much indestructible on the streets i'd say. he's using an industrial strength grinder but theifs use battery powered grinders which will take ages to cut through it.

[@arbit3r]

Hes using a 18V cordless Milwaukee grinder.

[@doooofus]

"industrial strength" lol, no doubt milwaukee produce bloody good tools but at the end of the day their M18 Fuel range are battery powered and will set you back only about 250 bucks. so for a thief they hit ROI after a single job, assuming a decent bike is worth double that second hand in a local market. 16mm will hold off any hand tools for sure (even the 48 inch bolt croppers) but when you're dealing with angle grinders there really is no such thing as "indestructible". dont leave a bike locked up outside out of view for longer than 30 seconds per 100mm^2 of cross sectional area (roughly speaking). so a 12mm chain will buy you 30 seconds, a 16mm chain 1 minute, and a 22mm chain 2 minutes... actually not so sure about that last one, think i saw a vid a while back where it took the guy 5 mins with an angle grinder to cut thru, but yeah... will go back and watch some more vids and update this if i remember...

[@doooofus]

ok i looked it up and saw joseph byrne's video testing an almax 22mm chain with a makita grinder, and it took him 13 minutes to make 2 cuts and break thru, so please disregard my previous comment, seems like time taken to break doesnt scale proportionally with cross sectional area (i assumed it did since wayne winton's vids indicate that a 13mm chain take half as long as a 16mm and 13mm gives about half the cros sectional area that the 16mm does so figured it probably did... seems thats not the case). in other words if you can manage lugging the weight around it seems a 22mm chain would be highly worth it, since for about double the weight of a 16mm chain per unit length, you would get like 13x the durability in terms of time taken to cut thru.... not too bad lol

[@driiifter]

@@doooofus in the video he has the chain link vice gripped to the table to cut it. in the real world the thief can't forcep your chain like that, they have to just cut it where it lays or cut inches away from their own hand, which could be damn near impossible, i'm talking about the ability to hold it secure and cut it simultaneously, sure a grinder CAN cut through, but would someone realistically be able to do it in the field, very unlikely if you're parked in public and have those insane Kryptonite chains.

[@doooofus]

@@driiifter hmm i remain unconvinced, theft prevention is an ever-advancing arms race and its only a matter of time till some kind of jig comes out that'll hold chain links in place thats mobile and cheap enough to find itself plentiful among thieves. i think tests like this that look at the fastest theoretical time that could occur using available tools are good inthat regard

[@bitTorrenter]

1 min flat!

[@EvilScientist]

hehe i got the 38,000'th view

[@bernardpujols1792]

Chaîne 20mm elle résiste au disqueuse thermique

[@Yanchor]

No chain alone will stop a thief lifting your motorcycle into a van without a quality security ground anchor and for the best see Y anchor security anchors. www.yanchor.com

[@DynamiteDB]

This video contains a whole lot of hurry the fuck up!

[@nobbystyles4807]

jesus christ hes no video editor eh...... most of that video was nothing happening