Well There's Your Problem | Episode 123: Cybersecurity

[@NotJustBikes]

I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell I'm building a model railroad without posting about it.

[@Alex-RealApplebees]

It’s impossible to not talk about them because they’re just so cool

[@JustJezBeingJez]

The only thing better than a model train is a model city....I built a model city for something to do during lockdown. It has a functioning rail network, buses and an airport. It's my vision of Brisbane, Australia. Took me 2 and half years to finish.

[@lumdythelump]

In relation to the news segment, the only difference the cops being black made was that they were instantly fired and thrown under the bus instead of having the wagons circled around them.

[@iamjustkiwi]

Yeeeeeeep. Racism from all directions, including being racist towards the garbage murderer cops. If thats not american "equality" idk what is

[@connorellis4402]

Hah! The irony of the negro policeman!

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

And there were white cops who were present at the time of the incident and still definitely culpable as accessories but they just got leave.

[@Sir.Craze-]

@@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot I think an argument could be made that only the officers who were part of that specific task force were fired. I don't subscribe to that argument and think they should all be fucked if involved. But I could absolutely see that excuse being used. Also. Let's just take a second to appreciate your username. ... Appreciated, thank you 🤭

[@fallencastle]

@@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot only one of the w ones present has been fired, no charges yet.

[@Alnarra]

I'm so proud of Maia for using her hack to get on all my favorite podcast, truely the most astonishing plan.

[@nyancrimew]

it was all about the podcasts from the start

[@lawoftsunami]

good work, agent nyan-ty seven

[@Alnarra]

@@nyancrimew Totally understandable, I'd trade in this CISSP anyday to get on Chappo

[@vasco4879]

@@nyancrimew HOLY FUCKING BINGLE! You just appeared in one of my favourites podcasts! Mad respect.

[@ShootingStarNeo]

Me, a person with dubious audio processing, starting this episode at work while distracted: oh hey they’re doing an episode on cybersecurity? and the guest has she/it pronouns, that’s rad. Kinda like the hacker catgirl that found the no fly list- wait

[@drunkkmachine4511]

holy fucking Bingle!

[@teslashark]

The worst microphone on WTYP so far!

[@xmlthegreat]

@@teslashark what are you, deaf? Have you not heard the legendary "The Process" Bonus episode? Dan Quade calling in from a WW2 field telephone with a frayed cable is the worst. This guest doesn't even qualify in the top 10 worst mics of WTYP!

[@thewingedporpoise]

@@xmlthegreat I am pretty sure that original Liam mic was worse

[@xmlthegreat]

@@thewingedporpoise I can guarantee you that it was not. Dan's mic started clipping the moment he spoke. All his audio is blown out. Liam's mic was bad but not blowing out throughout every recording. I do this shit for a living, trust me.

[@Dinictus]

When I heard "it/she" I immediately felt all neurons fire up. Holy fucking bingle.

[@nyancrimew]

they let kittens be on podcasts?

[@krellykrells]

holy fucking bingle it’s *the* maia arson crimew love ur work

[@philipb.3758]

I didn't know cats could speak

[@OutbackCatgirl]

meow

[@platedlizard]

Of course

[@leli307]

Hey, who where these people who were constantly interruptung you? Annoying SMH :/

[@DW_25]

The ML:Anarchist ratio finally got balanced

[@TheSneakyDuck]

Fun fact: Memphis Police Department chief founded the "Scorpion Squad," was fired from Atlanta for trying to prevent a child pornography investigation into an Atlanta police sergeant's husband. He was later convicted.

[@Frommerman]

I keep telling all the libs around me that yes, all cops, I really do mean all cops, every last fucking one of them, but I'll give you one guess how that goes.

[@Dong_Harvey]

I was gonna say something about the Atlanta REDDOG squadron, verifying your statement and expounding on Alice's comment regarding their raid of the Atlanta Eagle as well as their murder of a 91 year old lady.. But in the process of researching to validate my observations, I found the Wikipedia article for "Tom of Finland", and have never been so amused before. As such I thank you.

[@sadleric]

It was absolutely incredible to learn after the fact that he 100% knew the entire time.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

@@Dong_Harvey just your friendly reminder that Wikipedia is heavily edited by the CIA and other nasties.

[@PaulAngileri]

A huge, morbidly sarcastic “cool” to that. They’ve officially entered Roman Catholic Church mode, running interference for pederasts among their own. Can someone hit fast forward to the part of human society’s future where the systems that shield evil walking in daylight like this have all been (rhetorically speaking) burned to the ground and replaced with something more just, equitable, and far less lethally Fascistic?

[@RobinShiSummers]

I never clicked on so fast. Congrats on getting a guest bigger than the Pope!

[@xmlthegreat]

Holy shit you guys wrangled the crime kitty onto your show!

[@morganalabeille5004]

Oh she asked to go on

[@Dinictus]

Holy fucking bingle.

[@xmlthegreat]

@@morganalabeille5004 "Po-tay-to, Toe-Mah-to, same difference."

[@UltraklystronMusic]

What a guest get for this episode! This rules! EDIT: The second news story 😵 EDIT EDIT: The unbelievably relatable safety third!!!!

[@klarstrup]

Nerdcore fixture spotted

[@GetIntoItDuhh]

"desensitized -> re-sensitized -> desensitized -> re-sensitized" ALMOST sounds like a constant cycle of just being fucking traumatized by our shitty society.

[@jacobrzeszewski6527]

The news banner saying “until next one” really did age like wine. I guess double amputees are just too much for police to handle.

[@alaeriia01]

Hey, don't disrespect our boys in blue. Who else is gonna show up three hours late and then shoot your dog?

[@zoeygeorge2403]

Holy fucking bingle! EDIT - Landlord Safety Third segment has me hurling obscenities at my laptop screen at 11PM great work guys keep it up

[@tangentfox4677]

... I have "Alice syndrome" where as soon as someone tells me not to go watch something because it's extremely graphic, I go and watch it and feel sick and hate myself. What a great start to this episode.

[@iamjustkiwi]

Human curiosity is a strong drive for sure.

[@puppable]

This is why I have to learn to stop watching certain Nyx Fears videos lmao

[@platedlizard]

I was like that until I learned to free myself from the cycle of reincarnation.

[@AGenericMoron]

Alice has a series of tweets describing the videos in detail. I would recommend these tweets over the videos if you want to know what is actually going on in them. You, and anybody who isn't meant to be analysing murder evidence, should not feel required to watch it.

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@platedlizard the hamster wheel of soul torture

[@whoever6458]

There's a reason why the police motto is "protect and serve" without mentioning the subject and I think that's because they don't want to admit that the subject is rich people and their stuff.

[@comingupooo]

Don't forget that American police in the south are descended from slave patrols, in the north from armed gangs employed by rich industrialists, and in the west from vigilante groups who's investigation strategy was "Scalp the first Native American we see."

[@danielled8665]

I dunno, my husband spends most of his shifts stopping people from killing their spouses, scraiping drunk people off the road before they get run over, and figuring out why this person who was alive yesterday is now frozen solid on someone's back porch. But then, I'm not American.

[@freeaudiojungle4407]

i think thats too reductive, you had the take without the rich people part. we're on the same team here, but i think cops dont give a fuck if you are individually rich or not. they just care about your perceived wrongdoing, and their ability to exert physical and mental power over you because of that. whether that perceived wrong doing is "reckless driving" or existing while black, ACAB. On a macro scale, like police commissioner or whatever, rich people have power over poor people and police, they decide the rules. in a traffic stop like this, its just a powerful person or persons exerting that power over a powerless person, regardless of dollars in the bank.

[@SpeedOfTheEarth]

There's a german police slogan "Dein Freund und Helfer" ~ "Your friend and helper" which was actually popularised by the OG Nazis so there you go

[@LN997-i8x]

@@danielled8665 I mean, rationalize your complicity in way that works for you I guess.

[@tangentfox4677]

I have an idea. How about we just push for the no fly list to be incredibly somehow worse and try to shut down airlines as a thing because no one can fly. Like, if a baby is guilty by living in the same village as a terrorist, no one from New York City should be allowed to fly because they lived near multiple known terrorists very briefly.

[@tangentfox4677]

Lol. Imagine being on the no fly list because you made fun of TSA.

[@nyancrimew]

now that's accelerationism i can get behind

[@InsanityDiaries]

My flatmates recommended your podcast only 6 hours ago and I can't believe how amazing and interesting your work is! Such a treat to get a fresh upload during a content binge. Also side note, Alice I fuckin LOVE your voice, it's really soothing and beautiful. No sarcasm, I genuinely really enjoy listening to your dulcet tones. Stay fabulous Queen 💜

[@pygmybugs]

I had a roomie with a similar voice, and I never complained about her having long phone conversations right outside my room at night, because her voice was so soothing and velvety.

[@StepperBox]

Please please PLEASE get her on for Kill James Bond episode about "Hackers" ! I am begging nay pleading for this to happen

[@nyancrimew]

i too am begging and pleading for this i will not stop begging and pleading until ive been on every podcast ever

[@StepperBox]

@@nyancrimew Perfect! You are amazing!

[@plushifoxed]

@@nyancrimew hell yeah hell yeah hell yeah!! wanna hear you on KJB!

[@Kaanfight]

Oh hey it’s you

[@SarahHxC]

No way they went full silly mode :3

[@unistrut]

I collect wildly mis-directed Facebook ads. My favorites are: silicon wafers (flattest in the industry), hi-vis goat blankets, bible socks, easy up Sukkah tents, Hindu blue tooth speakers with built in Sutras, used traffic cones and Rammstein kids tableware set.

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

I would add KZbin to this: Holy water that you drink to make you live as long as Methuselah, customizable rubber rings to save your failing marriage, and a subscription that sends you a Manly Item every month.

[@russianbear0027]

Payroll software and tractors.

[@ebnertra0004]

I have made it a goal to confuse ad generators as much as possible. Apparently I'm doing alright, getting everything from bikinis to bible lessons, 'tactical' stuff, intermodal shipping, Class 1 railroad mergers (CN carpet-bombed me with ads during their attempt on KCS), and cryptic corporate jargon. It's kind of fun

[@semirrahge]

I have zero idea what a Rammstein kids tableware set would be but I feel I must have one now.

[@Cty-unofficial]

At one point I, an atheist lesbian, got ads to both go on birthright and become a catholic nun

[@katiefrisk980]

in other news, the atlanta cops are trying to build a cs:go-style simulation camp “for training” which would bulldoze the last of the city’s virgin forest in the process. and they filled a protester with like a dozen bullets in the process. so, fucking great.

[@zyavoosvawleilte1308]

Do not worry Alice, as soon as you said you had deleted your east is red drop, I opened another window and searched for it. The safety third is now complete.

[@Athenor]

Thank you Fredrick Knudsen (Down the Rabbit Hole) for introducing me to TempleOS. An incredible story with an incredibly sad outcome.

[@generatoralignmentdevalue]

Seconding Down the Rabbit Hole. That was a fascinating episode about a fascinating guy.

[@gendershrapnel]

"Sorry I need to leave get myself some water" Permanent cast member right there.

[@joeforsythe]

Just want to say Devin has been a great addition. The editing touches they add are a lot of fun, and they definitely feel like a sensible fourth member of the crew. Cheers!

[@whoever6458]

When I was a kid, I used to sometimes call random people in the phone book and ask them if their refrigerator was running and then, when they said yes, I'd tell them that they'd better go chase it. lol

[@postoctobrist]

@fbi @nsa @police get em

[@thewolfofthestars1847]

Maia helping WTYP fill out the pronouns set Pokedex by guesting on the show. Now put me on there, I'm a he/they

[@thewolfofthestars1847]

I could talk about, like, dog breeds or something. Pugs count as an engineering disaster, right

[@russianbear0027]

@@thewolfofthestars1847 absolutely

[@Tomartyr]

​@@thewolfofthestars1847 The Kennel Club/eugenics episode

[@LifesNeverHumDrum]

Dog breeding disaster episode would be choice

[@lizardmancer6300]

WTYP episode about drawception forums

[@rwrunning1813]

The only podcast that brings you a rotating image of a sandwich

[@spamviking]

I've recently gone back to work as a postman, a job I had about 10 years ago before leaving for a decade. The proliferation of cameras on private homes, both in the form of Ring-style doorbells and wall mounted Google Nest cams is insane. It's rarer to see a house without them, though I do deliver to a rich area.

[@jessclark9725]

Part time pizza driver, at least in my area it’s in every sort of housing demographic. From McMansions to permanent-occupancy slum ex-motels, missile crisis suburbs to RV villages, at least ONE door within eyeshot of the one I’m at has a camera.

[@platedlizard]

Yeah I do food delivery and it’s most houses that have them. If not Ring it’s some other company.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

I live in a rundown apartment block in a rich area, and I've put up my own security because people come onto our block, assuming we're easy picking compared to our neighbours in the big, fenced places.

[@Leigh-says-stuff]

We have a big obvious security camera on our house (husband got it free from work) but all it does is take a photo of the tree in our yard every day at 3pm and posts it to twitter.

[@tangentfox4677]

As a cybersecurity professional, I am so excited and terrified to watch this. This excited fear is a combination of knowing what to expect, fear of things being even worse than I know, and the expected pain of hearing y'all get details wrong and the perfectionist asshole in my head wanting to rant about it. Cheers.

[@minikawildflower]

already listened 4 times and this is a certified WTYP classic

[@Alex-js5lg]

I too watch videos at 20x speed. Much more efficient.

[@cf453]

@@Alex-js5lg Little known fact: If you turn WTYP up to 20x, you can phone phreak with it.

[@A-Letter]

I watch my podcasts at .05x speed. I'm still stuck in the Pronoun-Zone. Send help.

[@hockeystix1361]

Well There’s Your Crime: A Podcast About Doing Crime. Honestly this was a surprise and can’t wait.

[@potchatokpotchatok6084]

True Crime but about political activism and dunking on landlords

[@jedveilleux1463]

When I saw you actually got Crimew for this I actually went AAAAAAAAAA out loud

[@Chopstewie]

"Grok" is slang adopted from Heinlein's *Stranger in a Strange Land* Which is to know something deeply and intuitively.

[@thomasgiles2876]

Grok means to consume fully, and it's true meaning is one of the weirdest endings to a book I've ever seen.

[@Chopstewie]

@Thomas Giles Correct, I was using the definition from contemporary engineering and computer science. Within the context of the book grok has a deeper thematic consideration as all Martian language does. As for weirdness, absolutely. I've heard it said said that Heinlein's political philosophy is actually 'whatever allows him to have the most heterosexual sex' and it shows.

[@caidurkan2916]

Of all the sci-fi writers to take influence from, they chose Time Travel Incest Guy

[@caidurkan2916]

@AggravatedFruit I suppose some don't know how related the two conditions are, my mistake

[@comingupooo]

@@Chopstewie On a certain level, you have to respect a man who's political philosophy is ultimately "Whatever gets me in this woman's pants at this moment" but who also will commit hard enough to write full-length novels detailing it.

[@ceruIean]

On the comment about "look to the person on your left and look to the person on your right - only one of you will graduate": I used to work at a busy dog kennel where this was accurate. Almost every time three people got hired, only one person remained employed for any considerable length of time. Not sure what that says about that place as an employer lol.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

If you could submit a safety third from there what would it be?

[@TTRTIM]

I'm looking at the image for Safety Third and I think this is going to be a treat

[@chillzedd8179]

just looked ahead to see the image and im filled with dread

[@jacobrzeszewski6527]

Snippy snippy

[@dr.velious5411]

Landlord goes brr

[@edg4rallanbro753]

Landlord actually goes "yowch" like Tom and Tom and Jerry

[@jacobrzeszewski6527]

@@edg4rallanbro753 Tom is more like “aaaaaaAAAAAAGH!”

[@wagenenr8140]

Learning about Maya from Tumblr then hearing it on QAA then on WTYP has been an interesting journey from 0 familiarity to not that

[@danlovegrove6972]

The energy of Rocz saying "Cunt" is amazing

[@tibbygaycat]

As a gay cat i must say representation is important and very appreciated

[@OutbackCatgirl]

as a gay cat i agree

[@tibbygaycat]

@@OutbackCatgirl MEOWWWW!! It's the BEST I didn't realize the hacker with the no fly list was a catgirl this is the BEST

[@izzystar5904]

as another gay cat I also agree

[@iciajay6891]

The Police chief was fired for covering up a colleague's husband making cp. And was just shuffled to another state. Ppl should be talking about that bs.

[@carlost856]

This isn't a 5hrs long train episode, but I reckon I'm still gonna enjoy it a lot.

[@danikahicks2210]

Another great episode. Gonna try and praxis some Ring Cameras.

[@radicalrazel9156]

I literally spit my drink out when The Guest announced it's presence, holy shit

[@outethics154]

My eyes rolled so hard it hurt when Alice said "scorpion unit"

[@PaulAngileri]

Just tells you everything you need to know, right? Let’s name our reform unit after a venomous arthropod with a whipping tail full of neurotoxin. Really signals where the dude’s head is at pretty much always.

[@billmozart7288]

"Which I don't know what that says about society, but we sure do live in one" is a genius line.

[@Wolfie123123]

holy fucking bingle

[@StrawberryRaccoonNixie]

JAW DROPPED AT SEEING WHO WAS THE GUEST!!! FUCKING BINGLE, YES!

[@STOP_red_light]

The safety third was sooo cathartic and reminded me of my last landlord and his shitty flat. The mould problem was restricted to the bathroom thankfully but we had a similar ceiling collapse after the toilet system failed and kept on refilling with water quietly pouring the excess down the back of the wall and into the floor space beneath. This resulted in the ceiling collapsing into the living room and kitchen area. It took over 6 months for him to fix (it happened in late August) and he only did it after we shamed him into it by planting the artificial Christmas tree in the hole and have it hang down into the room for the festive period with pictures taken. His repair was a bodge job with a new piece of plaster board over the hole completed by himself and his smug son (who loudly said that if he was living there he would have replaced the whole ceiling, implying this was only being bodged by them because this place was a rental and we didn't matter). The plasterer was a pro however and cursed their shitty handy work he had to plaster over, it is a testament to his skill that the plaster work remained up there.

[@kagitsune]

Underrated comment. ALAB, all landlords are bastards.

[@HululusLabs]

I actually did hold up a social security card to a webcam this week, and it wasn't mine

[@napalmholocaust9093]

I sub Donut Operator. He played the body cams of the worst one till the next one. I wasn't looking for it specifically. It legitimately makes my stomach knot and my eyes get sand in them now just telling you not to watch it. I can't describe it in anyway that won't get flagged. God knows what reviews comments flagged maliciously as misinformation. Just the saddest, most angry feeling this is normal.

[@LordoftheThings327]

this might be the most excited i've ever been for a guest on this pod

[@gbrading]

As someone who works partially in cybersecurity: YES.

[@pablosole1693]

the fun Engineering part about phreaking was that they devised an in-band control channel instead of OOB under the hope that nobody would notice it? security before security was a thing

[@vylbird8014]

There were good reasons. For a start, there physically was no OOB: A telephone line is an audio channel. It's two wires. You want to send any information down it, it has to be in audio form. And the tone system was introduced in the 60s - the smallest computers you could get at the time were minicomputers, which were the size of a file cabinet and very expensive. So almost all of the processing had to be done using dedicated devices using tuned band-pass filters to recognise tones and elaborate electromechanical systems to determine call routing, greatly limiting complexity.

[@piethein4355]

On the point of programmers wanting to automate away everyone around them because we are scared of them, Tis obviously aplies doubly so to our selfs

[@steemlenn8797]

of course, the most dangerous is the one who knows the most.

[@thismikewillnot]

I think the State of Tennessee is trying to pass a law to prohibit bail funds from being used in the state.

[@daltonkraft4241]

Roz's secret railroad is like Israel's secret nuke. We all know it exists because obviously it does

[@nathaniellindner313]

I had a feeling we would be getting a new WTYP, and lo and behold, it came true. I suppose I could just turn on the notification bell, but wouldn't that detract from the serendipity of these moments?

[@PFMediaServices]

Notifications, pshaw. Just leave their video list open in a random tab and occasionally happen upon it while doing normal stuff. It's working for me!

[@ladywaffle2210]

You get a similar feeling with notifications on, just you see it in a different medium. That being said, to each their own.

[@tarasaurus98]

Cybersecurity is hilarious to me because most organizations treat it exactly the same way they treat maintenance in general: spend as little money as possible on it and hope for the best.

[@gjits5307]

Having not watched this yet, I sit confident in the fact that the amount of our lives protected by questionable cryptography and the password "letmein" will send me to bed terrified

[@carlost856]

Password1 has gotta be out there.

[@MySerpentine]

@@carlost856 I've heard that the code for the nuclear football was 00000 for way too long.

[@MrWsundstrom]

First the patreon thumbnail and now a Clay Davis joke, Devon is on a roll!

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

According to Google's data collection, I run a company with 10,000+ or 20,000+ employees. I've never owned, founded, or run a company of any size and have been unemployed for all but one year I've used this Google account (which is over ten years total, note most of that time I was in high school or university and also went legally blind). Just weird how they came to that conclusion when basically everything else is reasonably accurate.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

Maybe someone registered some sham defence contractor in your name or something?

[@NXTangl]

The trouble is trying to intersect the desire for secrecy with the desire for off-site backups.

[@JoeMitchell2]

Alright, so… I didn’t see any other comments mentioning this (though I may have missed them) but I wrote a paper on the history of hacker culture - broadly speaking, and it wasn’t like PhD-level or anything - which included a bit about that early hacktivism which grew out of phreak culture. Here’s a brief (lol, I hit the character limit & had to break it into two parts wtfffff) summary from my sleep-deprived recollections of my research: A very significant part of phreaking involved calling (without actually paying, of course) into special lines which allowed for multiple connections at once, akin to a conference call. These spaces were some of the first gatherings of like-minded individuals who were not physically present with each other, and to hear the old-school folks talk about it, the vibe was somewhat similar to IRC chatrooms or a particularly unruly Discord voice call. People talked over each other and multiple conversations would be happening at once, somebody would blast weird music into their receiver to troll everyone, it was a kind of exuberant chaos - as one might expect from a quasi-legal meeting of socially-isolated technically-minded geeks generally aged between their teens to thirties, some of whom were intoxicated to varying degrees. These calls became known as “party lines” because they were kind of like a party you could go to over the phone - and these were the kinds of folks who didn’t really go to many “face to face” parties, so it was a big deal to them. Around this time, the Vietnam War began & escalated so this was often a topic of conversation, and many participants were very concerned about the war - indeed, many of them were facing the draft. Additionally, the telephone monopoly joined forces with the government to redirect a tax on the use of their systems & equipment to fund the war, news which was not received very positively by anyone, frankly, but phreaks HATED it. I mean, they hated the idea of paying for phone calls in the first place or at the very least, they didn’t *want* to pay, but the idea of this monopolistic corporation (blessed by the government with that monopoly) partnering with the government to raise money to pay to send them & their friends halfway around the world to kill farmers in their own country, etc… yeah, they were miffed. So some phreaks got together & decided that one way to fight back against this war tax on telephone use was to spread the word about phreaking techniques - the more people who were making calls without paying, the less revenue the tax would generate. Thus, the “Youth International Party Line” arose and began the compilation & distribution of “Technical Assistance Program” newsletters & flyers, though that name didn’t come until later. These started out as single-page flyers left beside the dorm payphones, composed or compiled locally, or mailed around & mimeographed or xerox’d from phreak to phreak - usually facilitated through a party line. Copies of some of the “official” issues can be found around the internet, I strongly recommend them - it’s extremely fascinating reading. Search for YIPL / TAP. You can also read the FBI case files on the group, which is fun. Those exist because the FBI partnered with Bell in one of the most extensive domestic surveillance programs in American history - it should’ve been illegal for such domestic spying on citizens to be conducted, but since it could be passed off as a corporation doing it and then just handing the data off to the government, well, that means the government isn’t breaking the government’s laws, you see? So the government doesn’t need to do anything to the government about this violation of your rights. In other words, get fucked, citizen. Lol. Now, one of the people associated with this newsletter program was a name many will find familiar, and some will have already guessed who it is: Abbie Hoffman. It’s a small step from “Youth International Party Line - YIPL” to the “Youth International Party - Yippies” after all. The question is, what direction were those steps, actually? How central are Hoffman & the Yippies to phone phreak culture - were they founders, enthusiasts, or something a little less wholesome? I should acknowledge that this version of events doesn’t mesh with the widely accepted timeline, which claims that the Yippies got their name from Hoffman & four friends sitting around in a New York apartment thinking “if the press had created ‘hippie,’ could not we five hatch the ‘yippie’?” on New Year’s Eve 1967, and it is true that the first *official* “issue” of YIPL would not be distributed until June of 1971. But this version of events does not line up with what I’ve read (and heard), and I think that there are a number of reasons to doubt the capital-Y Yippie, Hoffman-centered version of events. For one thing, almost all of the sources for that timeline come from Hoffman & his associates, but there are other inconsistencies. “Party lines” existed long before the yippies - according to Hoffman’s narrative - were a thing, and grassroots resistance to the telephone tax certainly didn’t spring forth from the minds of a small cadre of elite super-activists in 1971 - especially since the tax was originally intended to support the installation of infrastructure, was reduced to 3% in 1965 with plans for it to be phased out entirely by 1969 before it was increased to 10% and diverted to war funding in 1966. US forces were mostly out of Vietnam by 1972. It makes little sense that there was no subversive activity by phreaks against the tax for five years -or- that it would spring up during the last gasps of the war. Additionally, it’s a WILD coincidence that Hoffman’s group came up with the “Youth International Party” name & the “yippie” concept *before* developing the idea for the Youth International Party Line, when party lines had been a cool, subversive, counter-culture phenomenon for many, many years beforehand. Lucky break, I guess? (Continued in a reply)

[@JoeMitchell2]

(Continued from the above comment beginning “Alright, so…”) It is my opinion - and while I hold a degree in History and have some sources which allude to this different narrative, I ask all readers to take this as an amateur’s assertion & look into the matter themselves with a critical eye - that this is an example of self-promotion by Hoffman & other prominent figures in the later, more overtly political & centralized Youth International Party group which was picked up and popularized in the press in yet another example of “great man history” - or simply the distillation of a large movement into a conveniently digestible narrative with a few notable characters instead of thousands of individual actors. While it is true that the first “official” issue of the YIPL Technical Assistance Program newsletter was published in June of ‘71, there were apparently innumerable compilations of phreaking techniques slapped together, printed out & distributed around college campuses for years beforehand. Also, the party lines were around for quite a while before that amazing New Year’s Eve party. Hell, AT&T “captured” its first Blue Box in 1962, five years prior. What *did* occur in very close proximity to that first official issue of YIPL / TAP was an article by Ron Rosenbaum in Esquire magazine’s October 1971 issue which exposed phreaking to the general public. (Additionally, an article by Maureen Orth in the LA Times & other papers covering phone phreaking was also published the same month.) I certainly do not intend to impugn or malign the achievements or character of Abbie Hoffman & his comrades, they did some good work. However, I feel that there are a number of questions which arise from an examination of the history of phone phreaking when it comes to the association with the Yippies - and the Yippies would largely abandon phreaking by 1973, with Al Bell continuing YIPL / TAP despite what seems to be little if any involvement or assistance from Hoffman & the Yippie “party.” I dunno, it just seems like this is another example of a grassroots, leaderless, non-hierarchical subversive resistance movement which kinda seems like it might have been co-opted and perhaps even ultimately destroyed (or at least overshadowed) by those who didn’t really care all that much about it but saw a way to promote themselves and their own ideas, which may have been good ideas and they may have been good people with good intentions. But ultimately the effect was that the world largely forgot about phone phreaks while it remembers Abbie Hoffman & the Yippies. Look into what the Diggers had to say about Hoffman and it smells even more fishy. Yeah, hardly anybody remembers them, either - but plenty of people have at least heard of “Revolution For the Hell of It.” Anyway, this comment has gone on for far too long already and I have drifted far afield from my original intent of talking about political activism in phreak culture, but before I sign off I want to give a shout-out to Joybubbles, birth name Joe Engressia. I wouldn’t use that name except I’d like to make it easier for people to look him up, he legally changed it to Joybubbles (listed in the phone book as Joybubbles, I Am) and he was a goddamned LEGEND. He’s the one y’all mentioned with perfect pitch who whistled into phones to make calls. He was born blind & was almost entirely self-taught, spending his youth in an abusive home with no real support available to a blind kid, he found and explored the world through the telephone by experimentation, sitting on the floor tapping the hook & whistling into the receiver. He shared what he learned with other blind kids at summer camps, and these kids became some of the first phreaks - other phone enthusiasts would consult with them regularly. Their keen hearing was instrumental in figuring out the way the telephone systems worked, and Joybubbles was a central figure in that community. His encyclopedic knowledge of the phone system was foundational to the development of phreaking. Read about him, watch videos of him, bear witness to his quiet, humble, kind genius. He died before I got a chance to meet him, but everyone I’ve ever talked to has said he was just the fucking *best*. He set up calls to dying kids, had a call-in story show in addition to doing readings for kids at the library. He founded the Church of Eternal Childhood and he was just so fucking *pure*, ya know? Alright, that’s it for me for real this time. If anyone has questions or corrections, please post them and I’ll do my best to reply and / or fix this comment (with credit given, of course), though the youtube notification system is a dumpster fire with bonus angry raccoons which are also on fire. I assure you, if I’m wrong about something I’ve said here I’m not going to fight anyone about it. I’d rather be corrected & learn than believe I’m right when I’m not. Stay strong, take care of each other, and find time to play. Bye for now.

[@PFMediaServices]

@@JoeMitchell2 Replying to this so I can come back later and finish reading. It's well-written, and a lot of fantastic info that I'm looking forward to absorbing!

[@pinstripeowl]

Thank you!

[@ridleycombs]

alice really going for that all_the_way_through tag on this episode

[@OutbackCatgirl]

holy fuck xD IT'S A GREAT TAG THO NGL

[@thewingedporpoise]

it wasn't until I watched this and Maia said its name that I realized crimew was crime+mew, or at the very least said like that also I knew about maia before I knew about Kevin Minnick or at least I'd forgotten about him so that's a point for maia

[@sweetpepino1907]

Thank you fellas for another mind bending bout of grief, panic, and despair to make me wish very many people would have a nice time for international friends day.

[@unistrut]

They have Steve Wozniak's Blue Box at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA.

[@Feasco]

holy fucking bingle it's the guest star we've all been waiting for

[@M00th]

I wish I had a take bad enough to get pinned by Justin. So I'll just invite him to play trains with me at the live steam club in Jersey.

[@FiveTiger]

Just in case we don't get another episode next week, I offer the WTYP gang a humble "Go Birds"

[@caidurkan2916]

Concerning the secret guitar, AS a guitarist who used to post about it a bit I of course receive plenty of musician clickbait and ads, mostly along the lines of "soy face killing in the name of jazz cover 12 chords that work with every progression 4 minute tutorial linking to scam classes this little accessory costs $500 and is a total gamechanger for one niche use this video is NOT an advert". That being said, I've never posted about the fact I'm learning drums (guess that's untrue now, starting with this comment) and yet I get recommended a lot of youtube drummers or drumming tutorials/videos that are just a bit too specific to be included to catch the eye of random non musicians. Honestly it's probably the fact that my phone can relay what I'm playing because drums are loud enough to be heard by your mobile phone in another room. There doesn't appear to be any way to learn something with complete privacy without carving out a newer, shittier life in some isolated wasteland paradise that only exists in the mind of Chuck McGill from BCS.

[@DizzyEyes94]

Oh my god Devon is ON FIRE right away in this episode

[@LostInDub]

I've been binging Jack Rhysider the past few days & you guys are the only creators that could convince me to take a break to listen to something else.. and of course it's on cybersecurity 😲

[@guypatterson100]

The Hackerman slide is from the short film Kung Fury. Alongside characters like Triceri-cop, a murderous Nazi arcade cabinet, Thor, a David Hasselhoff themed sports car, etc...

[@bchin4005]

Rocz is correct, MDF isn't structural at all, it's meant to be used in finished surface applications since it's just a composite of glue (formaldehyde based, no less) and fine sawdust.

[@thomasgiles2876]

Ever meet a coworker with the title "Webpage Security Expert" who asks with a puzzled voice "What's that?" when you mention an HTML/CSS glitch, or is it just me?

[@steemlenn8797]

No, but the webdesigner who said "I never heard of this framework" when asked if he uses html for the website.

[@kadepage8166]

Can't wait to listen to this after my shift

[@gabsrants]

I'm not even to the goddamn news and I can already tell this one will be great.

[@michimatsch5862]

Was this the catgirl hacktivist who leaked the no-fly list?

[@doyleharken3477]

yeah

[@cubedable]

YES YES YEEEEEEES IT'S BINGLE TIME

[@cylesmith8291]

Yesssssss! The one problem we needed to be solved: how can I buy feet pics without my boss finding out about his wife.

[@Synthetica9]

Finally, something within my actual (alleged) field of expertise

[@thomasgiles2876]

Finally, a Balaclava expert!

[@iamjustkiwi]

Fredrik knudsen did a good video on temple OS, its how I first heard about it. Definitely recommend.

[@doyleharken3477]

didn't think i'd ever hear a twitter mutual on this podcast, yet crime cat went the distance

[@stiltpuppy]

I'm gonna listen, but first I had to play Hacker by Deathgrips to get in the mood

[@RatchetSly]

🎵 I'm in your ar-ee-aa, I'm in, your area I know your first three numbers I'm in 🎵

[@TheMadisonMachine]

Maia rules, have it on all the time!!

[@FluxChanneler]

Maia is a great guest. Bring her back soon, please.

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

Oh wow you got the No-Fly List hero on the pod! Damn! Great get.

[@malicious-fisheeves]

i was so delighted to find out who the guest was, great episode

[@paleposter]

Nice, an episode for people who are so secure in their cybersex

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

"Got on the news a second time" wait what did it do the first time?!

[@Its-Just-Zip]

Note on the postal inspectors, IRRC they are technically private cops since the post office is not a government department, it's a corporation who's only shareholder is the federal government

[@emm4rmstrong]

The postal service is considered an Independent Agentcy, which does make them part of the Executive Branch.

[@Its-Just-Zip]

@@emm4rmstrong I was like 90% sure they were considered a "public purpose corporation" like Amtrak is either way, they dont receive tax funding like a normal agency does edit: indeed they are, they share that classification with Amtrak and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting

[@TrinityShoji]

31:01 Those Osgood Bradlies look to be Eastern Car Works kits with a decent paint job

[@Ashephalt]

Holy fucking bingle

[@Crowborn]

HOLY SHIT this crossover was unexpected but I'm so glad you got it!

[@HamburgerTime209]

Nice fuckin get, Maia Crimew’s been all over my tumblr the last few weeks

[@bolonya2264]

I don't think I've ever received a notification so fast.

[@whoever6458]

When I was a teenager, I was trimming my mom's hedges with exactly the same hedge trimmer. I also couldn't reach and we didn't have a big enough ladder so I was using just one hand. I had to dodge the trimmer once and it slightly nicked my calf, which resulted in a couple of minor cuts that stopped bleeding before I would have been able to do anything about them. I will say that my mom's hand saw is much more dangerous as it will claw deep wounds into you if you barely tap yourself with it (which I've only done twice but I am a klutz). It is also better even though you supply the power and probably also safer for most people because of that. I have just used that saw a lot because it's the best one ever (Corona folding saw for those who are interested).

[@vylbird8014]

I love Hackers, the movie. Of course it's not at all realistic - but it's the aspirational movie of the script kiddie, the young people who were just being introduced to the world of the internet. It presented hackers, not as destructive computer vandals, but as idealists fighting for something worth fighting for. A lot of people who saw that wanted in.