What are the BETA Rune Dungeons and are they hard?

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What are the BETA Rune Dungeons and are they hard?
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[@Scottejaye]

You can now find me streaming here --- > kick.com/scottejaye

[@Knotunit]

I keep hearing "for alts" and "catchup gear" but across a couple different servers I have toons on its all about being a certain gear score. I cant see fresh 80s or even naxx geared alts meeting the new criteria.

[@begerbingchilling]

The hardest part of these, as with any heroic dungeon, is gonna be the GS whisper hurdle.

[@Dombledore11]

I wish they would do a timewalking version of h+ and h++ dungeons where you could go back and run old school dungeons, it’d be so fun to go back and play like a h++ deadmines

[@KuroAkatsuki]

Just wait for cata i guess

[@loudent2]

I feel like people running with ulduar gear or with a guild team underestimate the bump in damage/health and some of the affixes in the ++ dungeons. A group of random fresh 80s aren't doing heroic+ dungeons for catch-up gear. Sure, you can have one or 2 maybe, but tank and to a lesser extent the healer needs to be geared up a bit first (unless you have like 3 dps bonker's gear. In other words a carry. As a "catch-up" mechanic it doesn't work very well.

[@prettyponymonster]

Or, check this out: CC. But fat chance you have anyone patient enough to do that when you can hit a dirt cheap t7 gdkp for some tier while being semi-afk

[@100based9]

Exactly. I tried heroic + VH on my 4.5k gs lock and I was in a group that ranged from 3300-3800 gs and tank and healer both at 3300 and we had no chance. So quickly overwhelmed

[@jongotti7403]

cc isn’t enough to do the heroic +s with an under geared group btw. the ice dmg in the utguarde dungs will one shot a squishy in bad gear.

[@deathsromath]

Yes I agree that’s why I would rather group with higher ilvl gear. I couldn’t tank h+ with 3k gear score and I won’t be able to do h++ either. Why should I “carry” lower ilvl people when it’s easier and faster to group with people closer to what I am what.

[@silvioantonio6952]

@@jongotti7403 nerfed. its not killing you in 1s anymore.

[@pawellachowicz]

I love that everyone calls it "catch-up". "LFM hc+, min GS 4,6k"

[@rookie28604]

​@ace052330 Just...no...

[@johnnyb5309]

@@ace052330 Kind of depends what class you ding and professions as to what's available. Last for me was the prot warrior and after all crafted and boe's I was around 3.8k. It wasn't that cheap either but that's fine if you manage your gold wisely. The average player maybe not so much. If you can't afford to make the 232's or get some good boe's GL in the H+ arena. JC would've been the play for tank trinkets starting out but I already had two and no BS. Certain slots are much more contested in raid as well, might be hard to replace the last couple weak pieces you have in raid. If I could offer any tip take 4 people on a Monday and go do 10m FL for some catch-up gear. It's worked quite well.

[@PretentiousD]

​@@johnnyb5309my experience as a war as well.

[@dreviuz7183]

Realistically it's only going to be "catch-up" to those that ran Ulduar for the first half and then quit, and they are usually between 4,6 and 4,9 with mostly 232 pieces.

[@rookie28604]

@dreviuz7183 Why wouldn't it be catch up for all the fresh 80s and alts too lol

[@sricharanrao1812]

Having timers on dungeons is one of the most universally hated ideas. It increases stress and breeds toxicity. If Blizz brings it to Classic that will the time I quit.

[@markgetman2302]

gold challenge modes with scaled gear and thus equal footing and only a timer as a metric were much loved.

[@antraxpippo68]

What are timers

[@jakechris5759]

alpha and beta dungeons were more made for raiders and mains chars to complete gearing out what they couldn’t get from the previous raids. ie neo gear from final boss from alpha and now uld hm loot from beta dungeons and the currency.

[@boalollal242]

Hope they implement Dungeon/raid finder so that there's actually people to do it with. HC+ almost dead now, same for naxx.

[@Suvus]

awesome coverage, great work!

[@Jaegerminor]

With only the last boss mattering I would love to see all the boss and trash skips that are possible in these.

[@Gulaschguenter]

On our server, it already is only skip runs for daily heroics, if possible.

[@silvioantonio6952]

it will not, at PTR every boss drop 1 225 piece of gear. not only the last one like the alpha dungeons.

[@Jaegerminor]

@@silvioantonio6952 right but fresh alts aside 225 pieces are irrelevant. The vast majority of runs will be focused on getting the hard mode loot currency.

[@Jaegerminor]

@@Gulaschguenter for sure, but with needing to run so many more beta dungeons than alphas where it was just the daily I would opt in for more elaborate skips like invis pots. TBC had this heroic speedrun competition and one group pulled out a ton of skips I had never seen before.

[@IFNH8UALL]

People are still hard gatekeeping the heroic + dungeons with GS. Like...if I had 4k gs I wouldnt be doing H+ I'd be doing Ulduar. I cant imagine this will make that any better.

[@dyyylllaannn]

bro 4k was dog shit in phase 1😂 get good

[@icebox1954]

I just did Old Kingdom Heroic+ today for gold and 4 out of 5 of us were 5k GS and the lowest was a 4,6k. Why would I want to carry you guys and waste my own time? If people want GS for Heroic+ then make your own 3,3k groups. It's still possible just slow and tedious.

[@Kensber85]

@@icebox1954because the purpose of the dungeons were for catchup gear

[@icebox1954]

@@Kensber85 I know that, I just don't want to group with badly geared players.

[@jontaii152]

@@icebox1954 then you’ll have less well geared players to group up with. You are perpetuating your own problem

[@gbaby447]

that's a great change, thx u blizz for giving the new toons a chance in these and not tuned for pple that dont need it. just for this issue if they keep these easier, my hats tipped to Blizz for finally getting a decision right!

[@bren3233]

Genuine question for anyone that wants to take a sec and share their opinion. Do you think if they reduced the increase in health/damage by at LEAST half for both Alpha and beta dungeons and maintained other mechanics as they are now, would there be less gatekeeping for heroic + runs? Or what actual, tangible change could reduce the gatekeeping in Wrath?

[@MrRobschnieder]

Yeah cut the Alpha stats by some amount and give us the new bonus' mechanics in alpha could make it easier. But at the end of the day the community is still very gatekeepy

[@Muffnman007]

If they added the buff like when you kill mirrors to raids imagine how many people would actually switch to adds then.

[@jasonrash7020]

"LFM Heroic Beta, 5k GS min, link Observed achiv or no invite"

[@theguru3930]

Thanks for the sum up :) Question: I am playing a holy paladin too and I was wondering what is that addon that shows your cooldown on accelerators, judgment, DSac etc? Thanks!

[@JT-91]

At fresh 80 you wont be getting ++. I leveled a holy pally no one would let me heal + at 3800 gs. The only way i got gear was gdkps...

[@GCC507]

Great video! Do you have a loot table per instance uploaded yet?

[@Scottejaye]

Not yet mate, been documenting what each boss drops but it'll be on wowhead before i get enough kills on the PTR

[@vinceperalta1420]

If they meant to add H+ for ungeared players then why do you need 4k gs minimum for ppl to even accept ur invite request?

[@theadd_gamer1182]

It's not a catch up mech, it's a gatekeeper mechanic. Keeps elitist players from playing with you. Great game. BLIZZ ruined this game twice now.

[@karolisbareika8306]

No fresh 80 is running h+ ungeared. Dont know what he's smoking. I wouldn't run h+ unless I have a gs of 3.7k. Otherwise, im just wasting everyones time. Nobody wants to run a dungeon in 45 minutes or an hour when the can do it in 20.

[@sophloaf1401]

I mean, I don't think that making them easier is actually a bad thing in the slightest. I found it to be less worth doing a h+ dungeon for gear than just doing a naxx 10. The difficulty for reward just isn't there for alpha rune. There is also the issue of the previous affixes just all being shit. Some of the affixes were barely noticeable, while some were hard as rocks, with no upsides to them.

[@leonsoto8333]

Honestly. I would play alot more if they opened up dungeon finder. On a server with not to many people sucks. They do raids and get locked out, then log out. One day they will listen.

[@kratos13254]

Did a world tour with some guildies last and we would not shut up about HoS and HoL. Holy shit it’s so much fun. We pulled the first boss and 2 packs while they were empowered for fun and we were doing 60K DPS. Absolutely fucking insanely fun

[@ryan6881]

Can you do one of each difficulty for every dungeon or do dungeons have the same lockout?

[@Sliznark]

Great video

[@galeitiaa]

Priests are going to be huge for these dungeons....mind soothe skips are crazy good!

[@silvioantonio6952]

i dont think skips will be a thing, every boss is droping 1 225 piece of gear.

[@Bartooc]

@@silvioantonio6952 Which is useless if you are there only for the essences

[@DrewAmongTheFence78]

Has anyone in the community made a document of the loot drops? Which items from which dungeon? Dying to know! Don't want to wait for atlas loot update!

[@alrightylol]

Gl getting in to grp for those w/o 5k gs.

[@monopoli107]

Can I ask what is the health bar addon? Tnx

[@danvoigt7995]

What's your mod/wa loadout on your pally?

[@thickskull]

Do you have to count to 3 before throwing the hand grenade?

[@Scottejaye]

For maximum RP, yes! :D

[@Shinobuu22]

It’s actually 1,2…4!

[@ratba8366]

Thing is, you hit 80 and ask to join a heroic and they say GS 3k+ so sit in LFG or eventually just pay for a GDKP...

[@alexhill9423]

how many sidereal essenses are these dungs giving?

[@velo_GG]

man really just said yootgarde keep and yootgarde pinnacle o_O

[@Ascendedfaith]

Problem is, you ain't finding a group for HC+ as a newly dinged 80. Gotta have at least 3.7k to get an invite on my server. Once you reach that threshold it's fine, but getting there is not. I guess HC++, or beta dungeons, will require at least 4k then 🤡🤡

[@van7915]

thats why i make my own groups and being in a guild helps

[@Ascendedfaith]

@@van7915 yeah playing with friends and/or guildies is the only way to go it seems. Too bad for new or retuning players, though, which is usually who catch up gear is for.

[@84witte]

the GS req for HC+ is already 4k on my server. HC++ is gonna be a a lot higher probably

[@100based9]

Bought 4k GS on my lock with boes fresh 80. After you try to do heroic + with guys in 3300 GS range you’ll understand why some people don’t want to even bother. Massive waste of time more often than not

[@jamesslack7332]

I fel like Blizzard are trying to do two things at once with the Dungeons and they don't always allign. They want to make it so new characters or new people can get gear but they also want to keep them interesting for established people to avoid the raid log. It seems to have worked in making it interesting for HoL and HoS for you, I do like that they have tried to make the mechanics fit together. It seems like it would be too difficult for new characters to get into though as even now you have boundaries for who peole invite for HC+. Theres a small audience that does get covered by both aspects which is where I sit, people who don't raid very often so I'll be jumping on with my pala to get Ulduar gear. Unfortunately my server has gone very quiet and I'm not sure if there will be enough people coming back.

[@Archermit]

Challenge modes with increased currencies would kill off the dungeons. Once you hit the point where you don't need gear no one would do dungeons and only do the challenge modes for currency. We're already at the point where you need 4800 gs to run one of those dungeons (4k is more than enough, it's slower but more than doable)

[@stevejeffrey11]

people are no longer raiding naxx or ulduar since they can do ++ instead, so fresh 80s have an even harder time of gearing up because they get turned down from Heroic + and also barely anyone does the regular heroics

[@Archermit]

@@stevejeffrey11 yeah, which is why now we need the rdf and it has really low item level requirements. Just like og wrath, gs has hurt the player base as people put a much higher score than what is needed so that it's trivial. Thankfully the new ICC dungeons don't have a gamma mode and on the ptr are very easy so with one or 2 bits of crafted gear you get 200 ilvl and then farm them for 232 gear which will be enough to get into a ICC 10

[@stevejeffrey11]

@@Archermit yeah blizz really mishandled this expac, they could have released it with no changes & instead they messed everything up. I keep meeting people with fresh 80s who can't get into any groups or raids, people ask for 4k GS minimum but original wrath near the icc patch gearscore took over & it went downhill too

[@Kalisparo]

Admittedly, some of these mechanics are a really fucking good addition to the game.

[@Guardian2A]

The reason we need random dung finder at this point is the usual lack of invites for folks that are coming back with low GS I’ve put the time in so don’t necessarily have this issue but I know H+ grps are spending wait too much energy in trying to focus on GS

[@Evirthewarrior]

Yet another reason why Wrath is worse than Vanilla or TBC. People got by without RDF just fine, now all you hear is complaining for a solution to a problem blizzard created.

[@van7915]

@@Evirthewarrior you are right when it comes to current content but old content no one is playing it so i dont see the problem with adding RDF for Vanilla and TBC dungeons

[@icebox1954]

@@Evirthewarrior Vanilla was awful as without even a barebones vetting you get incompetent people who will slow your group down to a crawl. I prefer doing Heroic+ with 5k geascore people but will settle for 4,4k. Which is funny because that's the number a fully decked out Naxx raider would have, making it pointless outside of daily gold for them to do it, thus getting us all faster clear times with less bosses.

[@Kensber85]

@@icebox1954 but see having a 5k+ GS party doing H+ defeats the supposed purpose of the dungeon which is to be for catchup gear

[@051biohaz]

I think you got this a bit wrong, people that haven’t full cleared hard mode Ulduar now have a way to get that gear…those will be the people farming these dungeons

[@timb7298]

is 4.7k gear score high enough for betas?

[@mome3807]

I just want to know 1 thing: can I get the general vaxx hc mace?

[@lawfrey3859]

I don't get people complaining about this being too easy. Do any of us actually want to go back to Ulduar after doing it 2 lockouts a week for 3 months? 4-5 lockouts in my case since I raid on 3 characters. I sure don't want to. I don't want to have to get Ulduar pugs together to gear my friends or new guild recruits and I'm perectly content to just be able to target and quickly farm the last couple of 10 man HM pieces I'm missing. Guilds are struggling to maintain 25 man or multi-10 man rosters and gatekeeping new players or rerollers won't help.

[@nathanberrigan9839]

Something you didn't mention with the mirror images in the dragon dungeons is they can also cast AoE, instead of always casting Barrage. It was something i noticed when watching your live stream: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGacoGSGidx_npo

[@kippies66]

2:15 "It was a great idea" No. No. No. That is a TERRIBLE idea. Adding a timer? Great, you just turned wrath heroics into retail mythic+. And we all know how that turned out. The only timer wrath has is COS, which is not only generous but also optional. Just rewards a mount. Again remember the types of players this content is geared towards. You really think adding a mechanic that repels any willingness to bring low ilvl players is a good idea?

[@silvioantonio6952]

there is no timer, the idea of speed running is simple, if you do not remove yourself from combat, you will sustain a 20% less damage taken buff, 100% damage increase, never run out of mana, get bigger, run faster, and since you never run out of mana, the healer never needs to stop to drink. its not like you cant stop, but you dont need to, the tank will have 50kHP, the healer never gets out of mana, the DPS(even without good gear) will deal 9kdps (like my resto sham doing 3k dps, while healing another 2khps using only the healing totems). this dungeon will be literaly the two easier ones, that everyone will be able to do, every boss drop a 225 piece of gear, people will not skips. yeah, it will be fun run HOS and HOL.

[@kippies66]

@@silvioantonio6952 >Looks up Challenge Mode >Sees Timer Welp, that was easily disproven. Not that your idea is a bad one, but I was referring to the suggestion of putting MOP-style challlenge mode into wrath dungeons which still is a horrible idea.

[@silvioantonio6952]

@@kippies66 its not idea. It is on the PTR.

[@koullis901]

not bad addiotions BUT.....they need to adjust them better so some of them dont counter each other on difficulty or just buff dungeons hp and dmg done!!

[@ErwinLiao]

it's funny when you say assuming you say it ashuman lol

[@benlamb4052]

The issue is no new player will get into these, the community Is so toxic, gatekeeping and elitist that they will ask for full 25m Ulduar gear ppl to run these. Deny all you want but we all know how toxic elite the classic community is

[@dumplingshakes22]

There’s about zero chance I’m running these past the need for badges.

[@luizsergio2854]

How about the rewards?

[@Strath21]

6:28 priests can mass dispel and remove the monk's aura btw.

[@dave8539]

The current set of alpha Rune dungeons are too hard as it is. I seriously questions Blizzard's decisions about them. Right now most people trying to gear up just go to a ten man raid

[@nadirehsvm]

this is better than h+ which didnt appeal to either group of targeted players

[@Hampvs23]

haven't seen Mjolnir drop even once 17 weeks into this bs, hopfully I get it before hc++ releases

[@nimblelafitte1923]

hahaha just another quick few min video :)

[@ZackJustGames]

wait you can go into h++ as a freshly dinged 80? pagle has em ilvl locked for most runs. IDK how much longer these dungeons will be ran. feel like everyones just tired of the 5 mans regardless if they need gear or not.

[@100based9]

People gonna be running these for the 10 man HM uld vendor. At least for the first couple weeks

[@datolicious4832]

Yep didnt see dark matter nor runestone yet....only doing the dungeons for those 2, and for sure not wasting more time then needed by bringing fresh 80's 🙈

[@Zenrikku77]

Sidereal esssence and the Badge bag single handly ruin the ability to make beta dungeon a Catch up mechanic as no one will allow to a low gs or fresh 80 to join the group.

[@stevejeffrey11]

yep they all want 4500 or even 5k gs to join, and they take a lot of time to finish for only 1 sidereal essence per dungeon

[@civilian4live]

Why is it easier? Its simple, subs are going down.

[@iplaylol25]

Wow community so toxic. They make the gamer boring dungeons fun and 🤓🤓 why is it easier 🤓🤓🤓

[@autman]

I’m glad it’s easier. Can finally play some alts and gear them up.

[@van7915]

It needs to be easier wrath has no catch up mechanic. A better solution would be to have a system like Mythic+ than everyone would be happy.

[@84witte]

HC+ was overtuned for the gear it gave. It was easier joining a naxx 10/25 as doing HC+. If they want to make HC++ relevant for gearing, it had to be tuned down

[@icebox1954]

@@van7915 A better system would be mechanics based, not DPS or healing. Just make more complicated mechanics that make people actually earn their gear rather than it being a donation dungeon.

[@Kriegmann45]

Uk and UP were way overtuned for what it gives

[@ab-zh5ml]

you are switching to the dark side Scotty. Don't do it. Keep that retail nonsense in retail. I am referring to SPEED runs. Screw that. They can make dungeons harder without needing to speed run. look back at tbc. Just make the damn mobs hit hard. TBC required at least some CC. Escpecially at launch. That alone is enough. Just keep making the mobs hit harder. The path to retail started with palidan mega pulls in TBC and it turned into an AOE fest since then. Wotlk was just the practice expansion. I decided to try an old character on retail and was running a random dungeon while leveling. I had never been in those dungeons b4 and had no idea what i was doing, but it was a flat out speed pull run by the tank and we blew through it and i didn't even notice the majority of the dungeon. Stop the speed run talk please. Whats next, harder hardmode? we don't get to use any gear at all? no thanks.

[@nathanberrigan9839]

The pendulum swings back in Cata. All the people who joined in WotLK and were used to speeding through LK dungeons and hit a brick wall in Cata were the loudest complainers. Two of the ICC 5-man ramp up in difficulty, but it's really Cata Classic you're waiting for.

[@TastyScotch]

So youre saying people might actually do occ now? 😂

[@theadd_gamer1182]

Not without that blue drake

[@Iggybart05]

Straight out of 80 and into H+? LMAO no one aside from a guild group carrying you let’s you into a fucking heroic+ straight out of the gate. I had people deny me at 3200-3400 which is like full reg heroic and some badge pieces

[@gwman90]

Why is everyone complaining about not getting invited to groups because of their low gear score instead of just creating their own groups?? It takes like 5 seconds to put your own group together. Also it’s your responsibility to do the content appropriately so that you’re not being a burden to other players. Nobody should ding 80 and expect to go straight into H++ without doing any 80 normal, H, and H+ dungeons first.

[@Kensber85]

then blizzard needs to stop advertising h+ and h++ as "catch up" gear and instead advertise it as "for geared people who are missing 1 or 2 pieces"

[@gwman90]

@@Kensber85 It is catch up gear though. Doing some normals, then H, then H+, then spamming H++ is WAY faster than having to do 10man Naxx and Ulduar to catch up. Both of which are on weekly resets instead of daily and require twice the group size.

[@Kensber85]

@@gwman90 your not taking into account the amount of gear naxx25 drops

[@gwman90]

@@Kensber85 Naxx25 will be almost totally irrelevant once ilvl 225 and 239 loot starts coming from H++ and H++ related content.

[@barbaronaa5185]

I hate the fact that Blizzard is making this expansion so much anti social, so unnecessarily .. these dungeons are gonna have 1 week of interest and then they will die off again like the hc+. Its just not enjoyable man, I had 2000 badges of justice during tbc as a prot pally and I dont wanna run 40 50 mins of dungs again in wotlk. Tbc is slower gameplay and feels natural ok I got it. But this here? An abomination. An idea of some retail loving dev that just doesnt fit in quite well, but theu just keep shoving their agenda.

[@janakipejov3667]

These arent catch ups. Nobody invites low GS freshies

[@benjaminmyers6547]

This feels like retail coming to classic wrath. I still don’t like the heroic+ dungeons. Much less ++. Stop catering to the 1% sweats 😅 can blizzard just make the game fun and rewarding??

[@BananaWiskers]

Nah challenge mode was lame. This is perfect for alts

[@Dingy1010]

Definitely won’t be fresh 80s doing these beta dungeons lol. Too many elitist GS people even with H+

[@anthonyg6083]

Naxx is now completely irrelevant and nobody should go there ever again.

[@meta6287]

why do they even need to add this?

[@autman]

To gear up new 80s and alts.

[@romanciesielski10]

I do not like that they do M+ like in retail wow. It should be relativly easy. We/I like Wrath because it was easy and fun.

[@lazer9870]

complete waste of dev time imo

[@michaelmoran6364]

I gotta level with yall easier dungeons an easier raid and cata coming next. Blizzard put M+ in classic, this game is way to fucking easy.

[@Jeff.55649]

Dumb woke Blizzard makes beta harder than Alpha, HAHAHAHA

[@rizzorizzo2311]

Did Beta oculus last night and it was actually barely different from alpha.

[@theadd_gamer1182]

What a horrible mechanic!! Stand in something that kils you to remove something that kills you! Great Fing idea blizz.

[@karolisbareika8306]

Get good

[@kratos13254]

Uhh. The fire debuff destroys the ice under you champ. Maybe go do the dungeons first before complaining.

[@privateCOG]

can you please just say trial. im not a hater but man "tok" is not it my man

[@bren3233]

Genuine question for anyone that wants to take a sec and share their opinion. Do you think if they reduced the increase in health/damage by at LEAST half for both Alpha and beta dungeons and maintained other mechanics as they are now, would there be less gatekeeping for heroic + runs? Or what actual, tangible change could reduce the gatekeeping in Wrath?

[@JakePkz]

RDF

[@silvioantonio6952]

they nerf most everything to bring it in line with fresh 80s. the ice on UP could actualy being healed now. before would kill you in 1s or less, while the fire damage is actualy not a treat, takes ages to deal damage.

[@silvioantonio6952]

btw, this gatekeeping thing, is few runs, every boss is giving 225 gear and ulduar token, so if you kill 5 boss, 5 boss, not 5 dungeons, its like doing 2 dungeons (no skips) and getting a lot of gear.