What are the Working Man's Exotics? - TST Podcast

[@Luthair]

Should have called Doug, he and Kennan could have knocked out that Countach over a couple of cold ones.

[@JoshGRacing]

Underrated comment 🤣

[@VS666]

Those guys have a combined T level of 150 😂

[@thekernel69]

@@VS666 still more testosterone than you 😂

[@ICANTEWGF]

The same unfunny joke for the thousandth time, surely it'll be funny this time right

[@lwadeallen]

​@ICANTEWGF if you didn't chuckle at that, then you are dead inside.

[@narumis]

00:00 - teaser 01:55 - intro 02:55 - hands-free phone neck mount to reduce hand pain cold open 05:30 - EV Macan at Porsche experience center 11:24 - Koenig Ferrari selling for less than expected 18:25 - Countach update: powertrain being shipped to Italy for overhaul 30:06 - listing the "blue collar" equivalents of exotic cars Patreon questions: 44:08 - old Top Gear question: which company made the most truly great cars? 45:13 - what extinct auto form factors warrant a fresh look with EV powertrains? 46:35 - now that you have driving the Miata, would you rather a momentum car or power car for daily driving/canyon cruising? 49:38 - if you wanted to be like Zack and put a couple hundred thousand miles on a sports car, what are the best options for $25k? must have back seat and trunk for kids stuff 51:42 - is Porsche soft top look & maintainence worth it vs hard-top in Northeast? (54:50 - also what is the best Turo rental that fits three people for Newport Beach plus canyons?) 55:10 - if you had to live in a car for a year what car would you choose to live in? 55:55 - what feature on a car you've driven/owned previously could you not stand, and what feature would you replace it with? 57:46 - what's worse in an office parking lot situation: someone who parks outside the lines, or someone who parks with their overhang blocking the sidewalk? 1:00:46 - what's your experience with the stick-shift 1-series? 1:01:27 - my sister and I are visiting from Europe, we're looking for a V8 experience and like the Mustang but not Camero/Challenger. is there a way to circumvent the "or similar" situation at big rental companies? and is there any chance to rent a manual? 1:03:58 - watch question: have watch people ruined the high-end car market? 1:08:35 - trying to decide between Miata RF or soft-top, thoughts? 1:09:56 - already have a sports car, what would you rather daily: 2018 Lexus LC500 or 2016 Porsche Panamera GTS? don't need the back seats 1:10:55 - how much of a pain is alcantara to keep clean on a steering wheel/shifter? bad enough to replace it with leather? 1:13:15 - why would Porsche keep building a Cayman/Boxter if the 911 feels like a mid-engine experience? 1:13:55 - you each get one day to be lord of automotive regulations in the US; what's one rule you repeal and one law you enact, and one feature you mandate on all cars? 1:18:46 - outro

[@punjabeeplaya]

GT350 definitely will give a unique working man experience.

[@RideTheLifeQc]

Cool but oh so heavy and disconnected compared to anything thats lighter !!

[@AmitPatel_.]

I would make auto headlights mandatory and make all switches default to Auto on startup. Too many people driving around with DRLs and no taillights.

[@matts5430]

Honda did that with all their new models, starting in 2022. Acura has been doing it since at least 2014.

[@atmartens]

Agreed.

[@isaaccan3155]

I’m a truck driver. I see this everyday. Mostly fords

[@georgetaper]

For under $25k, a manual LS3 Camaro would last a long time. Can get them for $15k. lol.

[@thekernel69]

@@georgetaper 5th gen Camaro ss’s are such underrated values a buddy if mine just picked one up for 14k

[@MyCatW3ll]

Saturn Sky Redline all day. 290hp+, rwd, lsd, manual transmission, 50/50 weight distribution, roadster that barely knocks on the door of 3k lbs, and can be found for 10k.

[@atmartens]

The Saturn looked better than the Pontiac to.

[@jeffsmith9651]

Gt350. One of the best sounding v8’s , 500+hp, it handles and brakes incredibly well albeit a bit heavy. Most importantly manual and naturally aspirated .

[@cruisersupsupport4502]

older Jag F-Type are priced very reasonably. Especially 4 banger and 6 cylinder

[@mazda_miata_]

I was ironically just thinking about that yesterday after I saw a V6 on the highway. The V8 sounds rowdy as hell and I want one, but the supercharged V6 is a pretty big bargain right now and still drives / sounds pretty damn good IMO…

[@robertstahl8835]

A radical SR3 is the answer. For $35k you can have a street legal "car" (at least in Florida) that will smoke anything under 100k on track and costs peanuts in running costs

[@seldoon_nemar]

As a working man, I'd love a jdm Kei truck instead of any of the currently sold pickup trucks. They are are so stupid big.

[@Heyitsallgoodman]

If you fit in them. I'm 6 foot and not alot of room. Plus your ALWAYS aware an accident means both your legs are broken.

[@vvevvevvvv]

I think smaller pickups like Ford Ranger or Toyota Hilux will do the same job just fine. And they are considerably smaller.

[@seldoon_nemar]

@@vvevvevvvv smaller than what? The new Ranger is the same size as a full size truck from the early 2000's Kei trucks are half the size of the ranger (literally) and have the same size bed

[@seldoon_nemar]

@@Heyitsallgoodman fair, but everything i'm doing is within about 10 miles... it's just to bob around town with and go to the hardware store and dump. I can basically everything I need with it and get better MPG

[@vvevvevvvv]

@@seldoon_nemar yeah, I get it. Still, Ranger is smaller than current f150.

[@droptop_dan]

A new, leather wrapped, steering wheel for a 718 is a little bit (lot) more than $400...

[@samsung5]

It’s 1900 dollars on Suncoast 😮

[@chriswashburn9430]

Any 2009+ 911, Boxster, Cayman

[@thekernel69]

And any 1997+ corvette

[@travis3810]

On the topic of lack of lane discipline, I did a test on my drives back and forth between Philly and DC to see my sister. Right lane only was about 15 minutes shorter than left lane only (taking advantage of big gaps when people exit). Changing lanes appropriately was somewhere in between the two

[@peterotto8779]

Man, I feel like the mr2 and Golf R are the only things a Blue collar working man can realistically afford on this list these days

[@boywhohadatiger]

Pretty much. Even a used golf r with high mileage can be seen for 30k

[@trigganometry168]

Working man here. 2020 GX460 for road trips, 2022 Cayman 4.0 for weekends, and 2024 GR Corolla Circuit for my daily. I'm done buying cars!

[@73clementines]

That’s how you do it, great balance. Btw I’m curious, do you agree with many of their selections? For example, they suggested a GTI as a cheaper GTR; imo very few, if any, people will ever settle for a GTI if they’re looking for a cheaper version of a GTR. The power isn’t there, nor is the look, or rarity. I think it’s a great car, but to cross shop it with a GTR?? I guess what I’m saying is even though these two have probably forgotten more than I’ll ever know, some of their choices seem to miss the mark, but maybe it’s me…

[@trigganometry168]

@@73clementines. I think the theme was working man’s car. GTI is very attainable by working man and it could also be tuned to embarrass much more expensive cars.

[@73clementines]

@@trigganometry168 good point.

[@vvevvevvvv]

50:33 GT86 will do the job. Back seats for kids and a decent trunk.

[@mapko15]

As long as the kids don't have legs

[@deathcab4booty]

current gen 86's backseat is even more cramped than a the first gen's. It's literally just an upholstered parcel shelf.

[@MountainSalsa]

Mandate adaptive matrix headlights or just better regulation on new vehicle headlight brightness.

[@Frontseat_Driving]

I was told years ago by a cop that they are trained to target the front license plate in a speed trap. It's vertical, reflective metal. Still true with LIDAR? It's always about the money.

[@thekernel69]

Honestly the Ferrari 360 is the working mans ferrari, 50k gets you a high mileage auto one that if you’re blue collar worker you can do your own work on and swap to manual for an extra 20k

[@reaper-sz5tm]

50k for a 360 is getting you a really, really low end 360. Like trash one.

[@thekernel69]

@@reaper-sz5tm thats just how I like em

[@samsung5]

They've gone way up in price since you last checked. A six-speed with ~85K miles sold for $88K on BaT

[@ChaosphereIX]

What kind of working man can afford $50k for a toy car and not call it an "exotic." I think many on this channel, hosts included, have a very skewed view of what an average working man (say, plumber or cop or teacher like myself) actually can afford. I buy $15k imported Alfa Romeos with the Busso V6 for my cheap Italian exotic feel. Fits perfectly.

[@thekernel69]

@@ChaosphereIX the average new car price is about 40k and the average new truck price is like 60k. Also I know several plumbers that do quite well for them selves you just have to be willing to start a business instead of working under someone for alot of those blue collar jobs

[@mazda_miata_]

50:30 first answer that comes to mind is a used Mustang GT. 25k won’t get you a brand new one but it gets you a recently new one for sure, maybe a decent S550 or a really good S197. Has back seats, has a usable trunk, RWD, V8, you can get it with a manual or automatic, and I’ve seen plenty of coyote V8’s get way up there in miles. I mean they even put the coyote in the F150, it’s designed to see some abuse and some miles. also has longer top end gearing which is great for road trips with the kids

[@gritty997]

And another thing - alcantara is Italian for polyester (not really, it’s called sarcasm people). Only idiots get alcantara anywhere (except maybe headliner). The steering wheel replacement cost on any modern Porsche is at least $800 w/out the airbag.

[@chromeandcelluloid]

F-Type R(40k) or XKR(20k) for front-engined high hp experience, 987 Boxster or Cayman(15k-20k) for mid-engined experience, Jag XJS(10k) or BMW 850i(15k-20k) for vintage v12 experience, Lotus(20-25k)and Fiat X1/9(10k) for vintage mid-engined experience.

[@hardcoreep]

Will be at the Caribbean launch of the electric Macan in November.

[@adamlehner3232]

BMW i8 for Artura... of course, plus doors go up

[@jaioncebollero1168]

i8 is trash, realistically one would just get an m3

[@STRGHTSXBNZ]

I believe the 986 and 987 Boxster give a genuine Exotic driving experience for cheap (especially the 986). I even found a Audi V8 swapped one locally, with a Cayman S 6-speed mounted to it. I mean, which other car gives a drop top, mid engined V8, 6sp. manual transmission experience for less than 15k? Also (you Americans probably will never agree) the C5 and C6 Corvette give that true 'low slung', low seating, long nose, V8 rawness exotic sportscar feel. Outside of the US these are definitely cosidered to be exotic. Like the 986 Boxster the interior is cheap and crappy. But so is a DeTomaso Pantera, or a 348TB for that matter 😅

[@MR2D2AL]

My interpretation of this entire topic was askew. I made my list prior to watching (as many of us probably do) not as a one-to-one comparison, but as “what feels exotic for under $100K”. Here’s my list: 5) BMW Clownshoe 4) Caterham 7 (any flavor) 3) US Legends Coupe (track only) 2) Lotus Elise Cup series 1) Morgan 3 Wheeler (S&S motor) Discuss!

[@kylem324]

Yeah. I came up with entirely different cars too. Probably a firm ceiling of $70k, but better if it comes in under $50k. And if it’s reliable/durable/reasonable to maintain even better. Engine and chassis layout less significant all things considered. Then what are the intangible attributes of owning a sports car or Supercar? Thrills/joy and attitude are the two I come up. You can apply several qualities to both areas, but I think they are good catch alls. Additionally, there’s a lot of cars that a few thousand in upgrades will go a long way to increasing the thrills and attitude. Some cars I think would be good options. Audi TTRS BMW i8 Porsche 986/987 Nissan Z32/33 Lotus Elise Any Miata Porsche 991.1 Build a Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe Mazda RX7 BMW Z3 and Z4 There’s also old Ferraris that come up that need work, and if your willing to patiently wrench on it, could be had for a good deal. Dodge Viper Lots of corvettes. An Lc500 can be had for under $70k. That’s a better buy than any Aston, Maserati, or Bentley IMO. AMG GT variant Then there’s some great choices from the 60s. Alfa 105. Austin Healey… Any of these options would allow you to have fun, look cool, or go fast. Or the completely odd ball left field thing would be to build a 350z Safari, or throw a long travel suspension onto something like an Xterra or Wrangler if you wanted a Budget Raptor or G Wagon.

[@MR2D2AL]

@@kylem324 Miata and C2 Stingray were on my original list. I’m thinking of giving safari treatment to my MR2 Spyder!

[@kylem324]

@@MR2D2ALThat would be really cool. Hopefully after all the work someone would see your car, nod, and say sweet X90! Are you following the MR2 Volvo 5 cylinder build? (Volvo T5 Swaps channel) Ever since the Ariel nomad was released I’ve wanted something in that vane. But it’s a lot of money for what is basically some dom tubing, a pipe bender and a welding machine. Some CAD work and a few hundred hours… A Safari build seems like 80% of that, for 20% of the budget while still retaining things like doors and locks.

[@fishtigua]

996 or 997 engines have bore scoring problem, except the Turbo which was based on the old air-cooled block. Jayem on Cars did a great video at a specialist last week.

[@rbxe]

Matt's disfavour with the electronic dipstick is likely misplaced. The issue with the oiling system in a modern Porsche sports car is they use 10+ quarts of Oil. Wouldn't a conventional dipstick also require multiple readings, taken over time, to accurately measure the engine oil? This issue is related to the quantity of oil, not the type of dipstick, I think.

[@brandonsever2576]

If it's anything like my BMW e82, which it may not be idk, it takes way too long to check the oil upon a cold start. You have to wait for it to be up to temperature, so you have no idea where the oil level is at for the first 5-ish minutes of running, which is quite frustrating. A dipstick wasn't broken and didn't need to be "fixed"

[@kambojsbTech]

Used Gt350 imo

[@johngriffith7315]

🤫 but completely agree

[@kambojsbTech]

@@johngriffith7315listen everyone thinks it’s a mustang we’re in the clear the prices are finally dropping more and more

[@JP-xq7fo]

$60,000? Is affordable?

[@kambojsbTech]

@@JP-xq7fo2017 with some miles ~30k miles for 50k or similar pricing on cars and bids recently is good. Maybe even lower if you can negotiate dealers with cash

[@JR10_RR]

​@kambojsbTech can find them for mid high 40s....only issue is pre 2019 they use A LOT of oil. Quart every 1000 miles is not uncommon. They stopped making it for reason. A ton of warranty replacement engines for excessive oil consumption.

[@phattiger1506]

For me on the MX5 question I know the regular convertible is the logical choice, but the RF looks so much better that i would feel compelled to get it despite the weight penalty.

[@evorobin]

Ferrari 360 or 996 turbo. E46 M3 if it’s a daily beater 🔥

[@boots_n_coots]

Second-hand Camaros and Corvettes, of course.

[@quentinsjames]

Please fix the size chart for the hats on the merch site ;)

[@isaaccan3155]

Law I would enact. All cars have a circuit that turns on headlights when wipers are on. The tech has been around for 50 years. Very few have it.

[@SonoCars]

981 gt4! Best bang for the buck if picked up under $80-90k thousand with low miles

[@aznskrachmaztah]

How is that affordable

[@waters1801]

Thanks for the content! Another good ep 😃

[@thisisme379]

I haven't listened to their list yet but my solution is a 99 Miata and an 05 Forester XT with some tasteful mods to each. I feel like they are going to list things that are expensive to maintain.

[@jessiegunter1888]

I got a budget supercar, for 70k a 2020 gt500 will hurt some feelings

[@switchlanez]

A budget 458 is the C8. It's 1/4 the price and GM literally benchmarked and reverse engineered the 458 to develop the C8's chassis architecture with near identical dimensions, performance specs, and driving manners.

[@BlackCholo-wo5nh]

Budget GTR = used Infinity Q50/Q60 Redsport 400

[@nozua]

HARD agree on abolishing front license plates. The front plate ruins the smiley face grill on my Miata, I hate it.

[@benpenagonzales6014]

In the UK it’s 40 years. No tax and no smog (annual roadworthy test but people still do it when they sell it)

[@seldoon_nemar]

59:18 Matt "pause the show" Zach "Mhm!" _(he in fact, did not pause the show)_ 😂

[@evalonious]

Ticketing left lane Hogs sounds amazing but they'd run across so many speeders along the way.

[@stotheh]

The shit looking stock wheels strategy was exactly what Harris was saying when he was on with you for the first time after covid!

[@gohorns2323]

High fucking five! That's awesome news that the motor is going back to Italy. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like when you get it back.

[@martyg55marty57]

New law: All traffic fine revenue (no matter who issues the fine) goes into a national fund for charity or whatever. The point is to remove revenue as a motivation for issuing a speeding ticket and make the only reason pull someone over for speeding is a safety concern.

[@Tharley87]

I have to watch the whole video, but I feel like C8 has to be the obvious answer here. Used they are getting into the low 60s now, it’s a heck of a lot of car for that money.

[@josephkelly4893]

E92 335 BMW, cheapest horsepower out there. It’s not a supercar obviously, but with a couple of thousand in mods it will keep up in a straight line

[@thekernel69]

@@josephkelly4893 until it breaks 5 minutes later

[@klubzoda]

Used Alfa 4C - bargain on the used market (you can get them in the $40's). Exotic car looks - exotic car feel (mid-engine, carbon tub, no power steering, great handling). Virtually unusable for anything but driving for pleasure - but that's not the point of this vehicle. I rented one on Turo and was blown away with just how special this car felt.

[@stevemartegani]

In regards to hand pain, I've got carpal tunnel in my right arm/hand from 40 years of computer use (keyboards, mice, gaming and now phones) Our generation and generations from here on our are going to have big issues from this stuff...

[@amyboehm802]

Enact: Death Star level laser beam destruction for 2nd offense left lane hogs. I'll give you a warning, but next time....POOF.

[@janwlaaa]

One law to enact: amber turn signals. Y'all having unnecesary accidents for a silly reason in the US. Cheers!

[@ukanchumee3446]

I'm bored with hearing the same stupid question. "I want a fun sporty car that does everything, but I have no money. What should I buy?"

[@chadbarbaro]

right, if you are asking you shouldn't be trying to do this hobby. you figure it out, and don't be so boring.

[@Fitzy215]

Early coyote mustang for 25k sports car w back seat and trunk

[@ChaosphereIX]

Working man means somebody who can afford a fun car, but really is on a budget because...they are working. So under $20k, cheaper the better. Just because you can get an R8 for half the price of a Ferrari, it is still way too much money for the average working man. For Italian enthusiasts I say import an Alfa Romeo from Japan. I have had 2, on a beautiful 2006 Bertone GT 3.2 V6 right now. Feels like a working man's Ferrari - looks unique, sounds amazing, drives very well, and is quite fast. Especially with an exhaust it sounds like a mini Diablo. They are cheap-ish still, and every drive is special without shelling out for that exotic Italian metal. I will be getting another older Alfa as soon as I can afford it.

[@eoak134]

57:17 my 96 golf had the same thing. The door locks worked but there was a pinhole in the system (probably in the driver door) that every time you turned on the car the vacuum pump would run for about 30 seconds until it timed out.

[@glennpearson1888]

If I listen on my headphones the banging on the table sounds exactly like my children being out of bed upstairs. I have been fooled more than once this evening.

[@FernandoSosaIndustries]

For some of that exotic car feeling, old Kit Cars (if properly done and maintianed) can really make you feel exotic. eg. Factor Five Cobra kit car or Beck Porsche 550 Spyder

[@Anstormning]

Toll scanners definitely can read rear plates. I don't have a transponder or a front plate on my 911 and my account gets automatically charged when I take the 73 toll road.

[@edwardcunningham2701]

I guess my idea of blue collar is outdated. I work in HVAC and most of these cars seem like a hard stretch. Maybe I'm just poor?

[@gritty997]

You are not poor. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2023, the median annual wage for all U.S. workers was $48,060. It’s a safe bet that a “blue collar, working man” disposable income does not cover a $50k-$100k+ toy. I’m sure the average TST podcast listener earns more than the average but these guys are still privileged and out of touch.

[@thisisme379]

​@@gritty997yeah.. I like Matt but he's painfully disconnected from reality.

[@gritty997]

@@thisisme379The more I listen to him, the less I like him. He just seems like a rich kid frat boy that’s the same person at 43 y/o that he was at 23 y/o. He’s every rich kid frat boy douche idiot that I hated when I was 23 y/o. He’s not even that good of an auto journalist. I just put this episode on because the length nicely fits a tedious task I was doing at the time.

[@mapko15]

Lmao working man and a 125k cars don't go together

[@thisisme379]

I like Matt but he's painfully disconnected from reality.

[@aznskrachmaztah]

50-70k is more realistic

[@Heybudhowsitgoing]

Saying "Sorry bro, there actually arent any equivalents, and you really are priced out of this part of the game" isnt really worth talking about. You can only mention the GR86, Mustang, and WRX so much.

[@lucaspm98]

There’s plenty of realistic careers you can make $200-250k a year by your 40s and splurge on a $100-$150k car. Sure, still have to be in the right field with a decade or two of experience but it’s within reach in an average corporate career.

[@bigslowbro]

I see guys in construction, (working men), spend $100k+ on trucks all the time. Why can’t a car be in the price range

[@ChewyHighHAD]

GTS 4.0 going for $85k? I need to update my search parameters, because I'm not seeing that.

[@hemi398]

Working man's class of exotic would be under $20,000.

[@JSmooVE3990]

I leased a 2023 EV6 GT Line cost me very little it has better seats then the GT and does have memory seats.

[@G55STEYR]

BOSCH CIS or K-Jetronic means Continuous injection purely by flow and pressure dictated by mechanichal air mass "throttle". No computer

[@JustinHall-nr2xj]

get a carport for the convertible.

[@gritty997]

Watch people ruin everything because they’re the worst people. His explanation of enjoying precision engineering is standard watch bro B/S. It’s just about flexing those wallet muscles, that’s it.

[@Shelbyj13]

Matt, you may have carpal tunnel.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

Under 25k with a back seat, try an Infiniti Coupe. 333hp and a stick shift.

[@chadbarbaro]

yuck

[@DoctorSkillz]

Matt, come to the dark side--lease a BMW iX.

[@feld3d]

GT-R

[@reaper-sz5tm]

Pausing the show to answer the door should really have been edited out.

[@starrdogchamp1]

25k? camaro, trans am, mustang, integra, wrx, sti, r32, golf R

[@chadbarbaro]

all big farts

[@starrdogchamp1]

@@chadbarbaro but cool!

[@Inventi0ns]

17:16

[@MikeFromKentucky]

Matt, you should look up a Gyro Ball. They work amazing for the pain you're experiencing.

[@chadbarbaro]

1985 guy

[@VS666]

Oh shit, I’ll be in Miami next week too. I was going to rent a GT3 touring but I slept on the rental of it and it looks like somebody got it before I did, so I just settled for a GR86 in Miami blue

[@RumblestripDotNet]

Matt's "working man" must have a household income of $200k+ for some of his "budget choices".

[@lamdo23tech]

When people do these lists are they assuming people are paying cash? I’d argue most “working class” people dont have this money sitting around for older cars in which you likely cant finance.

[@eddiehp]

Hate when Matt talks over Zac like give him a chance to speak 😢

[@Vantablack_speed]

How many blue collar workers are pulling in enough cash to drop $50k + on their second vehicle assuming most working men need trucks or vans for work

[@outforaripper]

hey the ipod dongle in my 2013 VW GTI still works with my old 160GB "period correct" ipod. LOL. still great on road trips even tho it has not been synced to my computer in 10 years.

[@xavierferla1939]

mandatory amber turn signa l!!!!

[@stevemartegani]

I've got carpal tunnel in my right hand/arm from 40 years of using computers and keyboards :/ Add in the excessive phone use and our generation and younger generations are totally screwed...

[@jondobbs]

Be that person who puts the phone on speaker or get AirPods

[@DoctorSkillz]

That machine shop is garbáge

[@tl_gr]

"They wouldnt let me drive the car even though it's me". Pretty much summarizes the exoectations that entitled people, coming from rich families and a spur of fame have...

[@taylorbrooks1700]

I want to start watching Matt again, can any of you regular listeners tell me if he finally stopped yapping about politics all the time?

[@carguy3645]

The amount of commercials you guys have has become just a bit ridiculous. It’s like every 3 mins.

[@TheBucketOfTruth]

For Porsche I have the Race-Tex and only want to wear gloves when driving fast. I know Matt has made fun of people wearing driving gloves on the street but human skin just doesn't grip the fabric like it does a 2nd skin (leather). So if the majority of your driving is going to be casual or on the road definitely buy leather for the wheel and shifter. If you are buying it as a track car then yeah Race-Tex is probably the move.

[@DrummsMcGee]

Are you intentionally gulping into the mic?

[@outforaripper]

the new caddy convertible cruiser EV looks epic.