What Happened to Starter Pokémon?

Starter Pokémon are some of the most beloved Pocket Monsters across the entire franchise, but they don't feel quite like they used to. Have they changed? Have WE changed as players? Today I try to answer the question: What Happened to Starter Pokémon?
Alternative title: Why I hate the Galar starters.
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[@matjepson2192]

You said it better than I usually describe it. 'they look more like individuals from a species than an entire species'

[@FraserSouris]

I feel part of that belief is because we rarely if ever see groups of starters just chilling or doing their gimmick in the wild. Like, I remember seeing people think that about Intellion…..until they saw it made sense in nature. It sniped its prey from a high ground and then glided towards them. Or Scorbunny playing with each other. Because I’d argue the starters themselves are still solid

[@effluxi9587]

thats kind of the point though, no? they're fairly one-of a kind, and now with the hisuian starter evos, we're getting different examples of other individuals in the incredibly rare species

[@Deadflower019]

@@effluxi9587 They... those aren't the same species. Taxonomically, regional variants are different species from one another.

[@Deadflower019]

@@FraserSouris See _maybe_ but it still feels weird for an _entire species_ to go from shy little lizard to angsty teen lizard to badass sniper lizard. Their personality traits are universal and that's really weird.

[@FraserSouris]

@@Deadflower019 That has been consistent for many Pokemon species even since Since Gen 1. The pokedex never talks about how we see Charizards with different temperaments. It always goes from cute little Charmander to angry Charizards. The pokedex talks about how every Primplup and Empoleon is as egostical as can be etc. And this isn't exclusive to starters. Every Gyrados is an angry monster and they start out as cowardly Magikarp for example. You're not going to find a chill Gyarrados ever. All Munchlaxes are at least somewhat active while All Snorlaxs are typically very lazy. All Whismer are absolute cowards before going wild as Explouds etc. Pokemon has always done this because it makes the individual species stand out from other similar Pokemon. Personality is often a key part of character design. Like, both Charizard and Dragonite are dragon like Pokemon but Charizards are typically angry and arrogant while Dragonites are typically chill. Both Eiscue and Empoleon are penguins but Eiscue are typically cowards while Empoleons are egotistical. This personality has helped differentiate many Pokemon even back in Gen 1 and it would be odd to ignore it. Even IRL, it's not uncommon for reptiles, amphibians and fish species to have relatively consistent personalities and temparments. Even the concept of "job Pokemon" or Pokemon based on human occupations and activities isn't new. Mr. Mime was literally a Mime back in Gen 1. Kadabra and Alakazam are based on IRL spoon bending psychics. Hitmonlee is based on a kickboxer while Hitmonchan are based on boxers. Their pre-evolution, Tyrogue is based on a martial arts student. So you have an entire species choosing to specialize into different martial arts. Machop starts out simple and then becomes a professional wrestler. So I'd argue in terms of design philosophy, it's not like the new starters are too whack. They could have been released as regular Pokemon back in earlier Gens and wouldn't have stood out as too weird. In fact, we do have analogues for many of them. For example, Quaquaval's gimmick of a dancer was done by Ludicolo before (not to mention IRL peacocks do dance and show off). Intelion's gimmick of an assassin/sniper has analogues with Greninja, Weavile and Sceptile. Incinceror is a professional wrestler......just like Machoke, Machamp and Hawlucha. Albeit a heel one.

[@o-poppoo5117]

When a pokemon based on a gorilla is the least human like starter you know something is wrong.

[@raph3699]

Idk, he is far more animal than the two others. Also drumming isn’t as uncommon football in the wild

[@yalebass]

@@raph3699…that’s what he was saying

[@kingkoop7326]

Gorillas aren't humans tho

[@Jdudec367]

I mean is it? The drums and everything says otherwise.

[@sovereignblastoise6767]

Rillaboom looks outta place

[@Julius064]

Rillaboom is a design that is so close to greatness but falls frustratingly short. Gorillas are known for beating their chest, so why not have the drums incorporated into the Pokémon itself and when he beats his chest he's hitting a drum. Its literally right there gamefreak cmon. Their need to give these pokes jobs ruined Rilla's design. Instead of being a gorilla monster that uses his beating chest to create sound waves as an attack we get, just a gorilla with a drum.

[@fapplebees8925]

The theme of the Gen 8 starters is "British Entertainment" which is probably why they gave it an actual drum. It's really stupid that they seem to be prioritizing themes and gimmicks in the Pokémon over their core designs.

[@atoxee6867]

Sword and Shields starters were so lackluster and boring. Like, all of them were bipedal and looked odd.

[@nickchivers9029]

I think a gorilla with two drums strapped to its chest would be... ...an image

[@galaxyknight7309]

​@@nickchivers9029not two literal drums

[@edwardhill7297]

​@@fapplebees8925its frustrating to me as a brit, because I love so much of the galar dex. Overall, they did a really good job of intergrating british concepts into the designs (think Polteageist, Centiscorch, the applin line etc) so to see the starters miss the mark like that really stung. I chose not to use a starter for the first time ever in sword and shield and just boxed grookey in the end

[@CyberKirby]

Torterra's always been my favorite starter. It boasts this strong personality to me, of a Pokemon LITERALLY carrying the world on its back. That's a Pokemon that DOESN'T give in, no matter the odds.

[@pixelturtle5041]

its so true, my torterra has survived multiple hits that seems like they would ko, especially ice fangs.

[@cellP8]

best pick for cynthia´s garchomp, leech seed and giga drain destroyed that stupid shark

[@tangerinepaint3643]

Even with its quad weakness to ice you can always give them a Yache Berry and give them Iron Head.

[@thepizzaman6310]

Torterra has always been a top-teir starter design, if not pokemon design in general. It really shows that a pokemon does not need to be humanoid to show personality. Staraptor is another great example.

[@cgyh68748]

Until it breaks with shell smash

[@DWStorytellers]

In SV, I'm pretty sure nemona was suppose to feel thematic. She choice the one weak to yours because she wanted "give you a chance" because her whole story is that she's too good and no one wants to battle her. Her choice was the first time GF gave a good reason for why the rival chose the disadvantages starter

[@TheReZisTLust]

Old rivals taking the opposite to me was them basically saying "you suck ass" but without directly saying it. Then a couple change their team based on how much you suck ass. Gary for example and his squad.

[@herowither12354]

I always assumed the rival picked the starter they preferred.

[@berserkerciaran]

Aside from Shauna and Bianca, but that's because all three starters get picked. Also, I think Hop does it because he already has a Wooloo and also wants to be fair?

[@PauloHenrique-op9zw]

​@@herowither12354Nemona is already a Champion, she don't need a starter, she pick one because she was going kill your Lv.5 pokemon with her Champion team...

[@berserkerciaran]

@@PauloHenrique-op9zw Honestly, I would love for Pokémon to give you the Inazuma Eleven early game experience once

[@nojorooney]

In my opinion, the problem isn’t that the starters are based off of some sort of profession, it’s that they prioritize the profession first and what they actually are second, meowscarada is a performer first, and a cat second, decidueye is an archer first, and an owl second, Inteleon is a James Bond reference first, and a lizard second. I feel like skeledirge is the perfect fusion of the profession and the animal because they prioritize the animal first, skeledirge is a crocodile first, and a singer second.

[@Kmn483]

I strongly disagree that picking an "easy, medium, or hard" run with your starter is a good thing. The three don't need to be perfectly equal, but you shouldn't be heavily punished for picking your favorite. I started in gen 2 and Meganium was my favorite, and I was punished for that, as it was the "hard" option. That isn't satisfying, especially to a little kid. As adults, of course we want a challenge, but our starter shouldn't be what sets it. Just give us a difficulty setting instead.

[@Supahdenning]

This "difficulty" headcanon was never true, Charmander's early game is easier than Bulbasaur's. If there was such an intent it wasn't put into practice. Chikorita is surprisingly fine, just catch another Pokémon

[@geo_licious]

Piplup is my favorite pokemon of all time. Everytime I see that little guy in my car, I think, I'm doing it for him 😭

[@liaminator4950]

Awww😭

[@gf-jg8yf]

I have an Piplup Squishmallow and it's soo cute🥰

[@weisstofall2615]

Like, for real, why couldn't Sprigatito just be a cat...

[@sovereignblastoise6767]

Water humanoid cat asap lol

[@guzmashuji]

litten and torracat too

[@neo_b]

i was overjoyed when i saw Skeledirge, finally a starter that puts the “Monster” in Pocket Monster… i love the modern starters, but they all feel like they could get a job as a barista, they’re too sentient and human like for my Personal taste like you said; there’s 3 starters so they should give the people more shape diversity

[@wyatt9949]

I'm fine with Rillaboom cause like... its a gorilla, that plays the drums, not a human in a Gorrila suit playing the drums

[@oddsmile1234]

Yea, like "My issue with gen 8 starters is they're all humanoid" How do you make a Monkey/ape starter not humanoid? Humans are Apes so of course they're gonna be close. Like don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care for the gen 8 starters either I just think this is a bad faith argument.

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

I'm not a fan of Rillaboom just because compared to the rest of it's line it doesn't feel stylized to be an actual pokemon at all, just kinda feels like a vaguely cartoony gorilla with drums. Still don't dislike it, just not particularly a fan

[@wyatt9949]

@@InsertFunnyThingHere my issue is that they don't really feel like starters that match. like I really like Inteleon... but it doesn't feel like a starter

[@griskin_8202]

I think it's his stance. He's standing like a man, not like a gorilla. the art of him without the drum is great, but in game he loses that classic gorilla pose and it gets a bit uncanny for me

[@Deadflower019]

@@InsertFunnyThingHere I like Rillaboom just because it is the least awfully designed of tbe starters. The Cinderace and Intellion lines are just people with animal features, not Pokémon.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

A good pokemon design needs to be able to express multiple distinct personalities. A Butterfree can be mean, lazy, brave or drowsy. An incineroar must always be a wrestling heel. Also if it eats human food instead of pokemon food, that is a human in a costume.

[@lory3771]

I think something people don’t realize is that all the Johto starters have the same stat spread as their Kanto counterparts, except Meganium and Feraligatr have one stat swapped with another-Feraligatr swaps Blasoise’s attack with its special defense, and Meganium swaps Venusaur’s attack with its defense. I’m not lying, go check. Yet, people love Typhlosion and Feraligatr (I like Meganium, but I think I’m alone there). I don’t think people really care about the stat issue, they just use it as a fun trivia fact that Charizard and Typhlosion have the same stats.

[@cellP8]

my god...

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

It's not that people don't care, that's just flat out wrong. The reason why Typhlosion gets called out for having the same exact base stats as Charizard is because it does very little to differentiate itself other than not having the secondary flying type or dragon type moves that Charizard gets. Meganium is a more defensive version of Venusaur that isn't part poison, for better or for worse, and while Venusaur was a solid to debatably great pick for a playthrough, depending on perspective to a degree, Meganium is easily the worst starter choice in gen2 because of how badly it matches up against pretty much every major battle, and EVERYONE knows it. It's the opposite for Feraligatr, which is a more offensively leaning Pokemon than Blastoise, and is also notably the first starter Pokemon that is a more physical attacker than special (the only one out of the 6 from the first 2 generations, in fact), and both water types preform quite well in a playthrough of their respective games and bring a lot of utility to the table by virtue of learning HMs like surf and strength if you need those moves

[@GeneralDragon011]

No, I like Meganium too. But man, Johto screws it HARD, and I do believe that had an impact on its impression. But because of that, I consider it to be the Charmander of the region. Y'know, the hard mode.

[@GroundThing]

This "one stat swapped" analysis only works in retrospect, because gen I didn't have separate special stats. In reality, Blastoise had no Special Defense in Gen I, just a unified Special, serving both Attack and Defense, of 85. For the same reason, I imagine the reason Typhlosion didn't ruffle many feathers in Gen II was because it wasn't a carbon copy of Charizard. Gen II Typhlosion had 109 Special Attack, compared to Gen I's Charizard's 85 Special (identical to Blastoise ironically Enough), which is a major step up.

[@hamstermc7807]

Meganium is my favorite Pokémon. I hope that someday us Chikorita choosers will earn equal respect, just like Bulbasaur buds did

[@anglure3617]

you're so right about the signature moves, skeledirge just clicks torch song and destroys all of paldea lol

[@depressedkermit5337]

I would never laugh at a 10 year old walking down the street with their Machamp. You read it’s dex entries? One arm alone can move mountains 😭

[@UnchainedPandoran]

Laughing at a Machamp would probably result in it performing a Goro fatality on you.

[@king_of_rats_Monfernep]

I'm laughing at Machamp,cuz i have Machoke and Meganium.

[@jelmervanriet790]

When they introduced natures to pokemon it was to give every pokemon more personality. The Whismur you just caught is very brave, which is diffrent from other Whismur who might by sassy, serious, bold or much more. I can not imagine a scorbunny who is not energetic or a drizzile who is not depressed.

[@Kyonari]

Can you imagine a Slowpoke that's Hasty or a Mewtwo that is Docile?

[@egg7247]

Rillaboom being humanoid isn't exactly its fault. The drum ok yeah that's a bit much, but a gorilla is already human-like being an ape.

[@SamStarbucker]

Only hardcore fans know that Typhlosion and Charizards have the same base stats

[@boltskyline2957]

Basic knowledge

[@Thund3rDrag0n12]

Every member of both lines have the same corresponding stats

[@black7594]

All the starters have the same BST

[@spinceiling7442]

@@black7594 This video alone shows that's not true. Similar yes but not the same

[@gumbitoicic9977]

@@black7594 I think they range from 520 to 535.

[@Sequal1605]

Designwise, I don't mind when they try to make them more humanoid as long as it looks natural (Rillaboom, Decidueye), but when they straight up look like a man in a costume or a cartoon character (Inteleon looks so much like Mirage from The Incredibles), that's when I dislike them. As for the mechanics, I agree, the more recent starters just feel like they are meant to be overpowered in some way. While the starter is usually the strongest member of the team and the one you rely on for the tougher enemies, there used to be some sense of strategy and team building around your starter in earlier games that I don't think is present anymore. It's not necessarily bad, it just takes away a lot of the challenge aspect that I think is important in a game like Pokémon.

[@charlescalvin8680]

bro pokemon never was challeging, ever since swampert in gen 3 you could always beat the game using your starter 80% of the time, it just feels more noticeable now because the games got even easier and power creep makes it so that the starters have to be stronger to be viable in comp

[@Sequal1605]

@@charlescalvin8680 didn't say it was challenging at all, only that now is even less challenging. I think we can agree on the rest.

[@CanaldoZenny]

They are characters first, and species of Pokemon second. They sell you a character, so they can sell merch of it later.

[@UnchainedPandoran]

I’m just glad there was no Chesnaught slander (my second favorite Mon ever).

[@UnworthyCretion]

Tbh I really didnt like his design over the years but recently I grew to not hate him and played through y with him and I really like his design now. Still wish delphox was four legged tho

[@UnchainedPandoran]

@@UnworthyCretion There’s a heavy bias because Chespin was my first starter but even still, I think Chesnaught is badass. You can do some pretty fun stuff with him in battle too.

[@king_of_rats_Monfernep]

I'm not Chesnaught slander,but it's my favourite gen 6 starter mon.

[@Rexred09]

Even though I oreffer Greninja by a Large Margin, I love Chestnaught. I have never understood the hate towards it and Chespin, Quilladin I can understand though.

[@chaddangersexhaver98]

Now that's a based take. Chesnaught and Delphox get hella overshadowed by the damn frog.

[@andrewharris1344]

I personally don’t mind a starter being beastly or humanoid sense you can’t find them in the base games anyway so them looking natural doesn’t really matter to me. For me it’s they’re personality that makes me choose my starter.

[@GFCOLCQuote]

I genuinely find it funny how many people, sometimes even myself included, will look at a game and say 'I hate all these starters I don't want this game' and will LITERALLY not play the game because the starters are all 'bad' in their eyes. They are *that* impactful.

[@kurosan0079]

Yup. When I saw the Galar starters, my immediate thought was "Nope. Pass."

[@goGothitaLOL]

Side-note: Competitively Skeledirge actually utilizes Will-O-Wisp, Hex, and Slack Off, even if in conjunction with Torch Song

[@thenerdbeast7375]

The worst part is Rillaboom could have kept the same gimmick by just beating its chest like a drum instead, something gorillas are well known to do. Combine this with keeping it on all fours most of the time like the art and you would have had a solid "beastly" starter.

[@shrimpshufflr7745]

That would be way more uninteresting… that would literally just be a gorilla. I think it’s ok to have SOME creativity lol

[@percher4824]

@@shrimpshufflr7745 You forget that it's still an improvement.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

@@shrimpshufflr7745 Better than the fucking drum and being "just an animal" never stopped people from loving Sceptile or Serperior or any of the other bestial starters.

[@shrimpshufflr7745]

@@thenerdbeast7375 because they were bestial and not literal animals. People hate those look at the flamingo hate. Hell look at all of gen 5 people hated the ‘basic’ design. Also how is gorilla with drum worse than gorilla, how???

[@shrimpshufflr7745]

@@percher4824 downgrade 😭😭😭 y’all said the same thing in gen 5 and look at your sheeple asses now

[@RaguPastaSauce]

25:11 I feel like one thing people don't think about is that the first rival battle is a tutorial at the end of the day. I've been playing every entry since Gen 3 and I don't understand why people are so against the rival counterpicking himself, Even if they pick the type that beats yours, you're both just going to scratch and tackle each other at that point, and when the rival gets stronger later in the game, I'd have caught other pokemon that beat his starter by then. It is very thematic for Gary and Silver to have a starter that counters yours (Though Silver did it unintentionally), but I don't see why it has to be a constant in every game. I also like that it encourages the player to fight the rival's ace starter with your own. Besides, in Gen 8, the champion takes the remaining starter anyway. If anything, I believe Gen 8's first rival fight is a genius way of helping children new to the series learn about type matchups. Lets say you picked the grass starter, Grookey. you use scratch to beat Hop's Wooloo and level up to learn Branch Poke. Hop then sends out his starter, Sobble. A child new to the series would want to try his "cool new green move". So when he does and Hop says that the player is understanding type matchups after using a super effective move, it would obviously encourage kids to figure out the rest of the type chart. if it's to feel more like an underdog, I personally think that a 1v2 feels like more of an uphill battle than fighting another lvl 5 that's also spamming normal-type moves. Even if they're both functionally in the player's favor. 25:48 I don't think there needs to be a "bad option". The Meganium line is infamously an awful starter pick in the Johto games because on top of it's awkward stat spread, lack of coverage moves, and a type that is weak to 5 other types (which clashes with its more defensive stats), 5 of the 8 Johto gyms counter it. This includes the first two which are Flying and Bug. This especially hurts because you don't get to have as many Pokemon to make up for your starters' downsides that early on. And look at what that's done. It is waaaaaay less popular than Typhlosion and Feraligatr despite having a solid design of its own IMO. If anything, being bad can take away from other aspects of the pokemon. Alolan Decidueye is my favorite starter of all time off of its design and typing alone, so I find that it's a shame that it has no real niche in competitive. This is especially saddening since the other starters are phenominal. Incineroar is infamously the best mon in VGC history and Primarina is an OU staple in Singles. 19:32 I disagree on your take on the Paldea starters; they are distinct enough from each other in the way they play. Yes, their signature moves are damage moves, but the way they use it is drastically different. -Meowscarada is a fast frail mon but lacks optimal set-up moves. Flower trick allows it to break through mons that have set up defensively since crits ignore defense boosts. -Skeledirge is a slow, somewhat bulky wall breaker that can get really strong offensively but can never be fast enough to consistently sweep. It does, however, have good recovery moves in both slack off and Rest. -Quaquaval is somewhere in between. It isn't as good out the gate as Meow, and can't become as strong an offensive powerhouse as Dirge, but can set up with Aquastep and is the most consistent sweeper. They are all different without there being a "bad choice". I may be into the idea of playing the game with an awful starter now that I'm in my early twenties, but if I felt punished for picking my favorite starter as a 10-year-old, that might have turned me away from the series. You can still play the game with "bad" wild Pokemon if you want at the end of the day. And although this doesn't really affect a regular playthrough, the starters have been getting cool hidden abilities the last few years that make them stand out more from other starters. I do agree with the rest of the video though. SW/SH starter mons not having a secondary typing is a huge hit to their individuality as starters. That and the fact that none of their final forms' designs clicked with me, made it the first and only game where I boxed them the first chance I had and had Rookiedie be my honorary starter. It's a huge shame because I actually really like their pre-evolved forms.

[@costby1105]

It much worse than Charizard in Kanto, while Charmader is "bad" against Brock even half damage Embers take his rock type down relatively quickly. Charizard only really worries about Misty and Lorelei. The balance between starters is better in Gen 1 than in gen 2. Heck Typlosion and Feraligatr have pokemon that potentially outclass them in GS. Magmar gets both Fire Punch and Thunder Punch, learns Flamethrower earlier that Cyndaquil much less Typlosion, and had better coverage later on. Gyrados could potentially overshadow Croconaw due to having a high starting level when you catch it, but the Feraligatr catches up to Gyrados with its higher special attack and wider movepool outside of Crystal.

[@dam777felover8]

The fact is that modern starters are build with competitive in mind An example, you said that skele could have been a bulky fire starter and in vgc early format he was used with bulky sets thanks to una unaware (for ignore buffes) and slack off to heal the damage he takes

[@andrewharris1344]

Which I honestly lik, it feels weird having the starters of a generation feel way outclassed by everything else so them getting stronger I feel makes the starters more memorable. Because who really remembers Meganium.

[@dam777felover8]

@@andrewharris1344 kinda agree, they could also buff some of the old one like swampert has wide guard and a great type usefull for this meta but because he doesn't have a good ability he can't be used

[@Deadflower019]

@@dam777felover8 They should just replace its Hidden Ability with Swift Swim from its Mega and watch it do its old tricks again 🤣

[@percher4824]

@@andrewharris1344 Me, I remember Meganium. The Chikorita line are some of my absolute favorite pokemon.

[@dragonstar912]

I prefer Typhlosion to 'Zard because it gets Eruption and doesn't lose half its health switching into stealth rocks. They're minute differences and Charizard is designed to be better and more liked in most of pokemon, but Typhlosion just happens to fit the microcosm of Pokemon I like most better than 'Zard. Part of it also might be my subconscious spiting The Pokemon Company (who couldn't care less) by saying Charizard isn't my favorite Fire-Type starter with those stats, so there's that.

[@fifnaf7290]

Typhlosion just looks better too

[@gumbitoicic9977]

@@fifnaf7290 I disagree, I don’t really care about “cool” designs but typhlosion just looks like a naked sack compared to a dragon

[@BLazeWigglytuff]

I think every game has had two bipedal starters and one quadruped. I think the swsh designers considered rillaboom to be "the quadruped" cause it's the only one that is positioned like the original animal. Bunnies aren't bipedal and neither are chameleons. I think it's a similar situation to swampert who is usually on two legs but hunched over. If you were to try to categorize the gen three starters swampert would be the "quadruped"

[@pixelturtle5041]

bunnies and chameleons are both quadrupeds, inteleon and cinderace arent, but their real life counterparts absolutely are

[@BLazeWigglytuff]

@@pixelturtle5041 yeah that's what I'm saying. Turtles are usually quadrupeds. Foxes are usually quadrupeds

[@BLazeWigglytuff]

@@pixelturtle5041 I saw the typo lol

[@shiruotakuno28]

I wish starter trios had one that was strictly bipedal (Meowscarada/Blaziken/Inteleon), One that was strictly quadrupedal (Venusaur/Skeledirge/Samurott), and one that could do both (Rillaboom/Typhlosion/Swampert). Also, mix in a mon once in a while that doesn't fit these other categories to shake things up (Serperior/Primarina).

[@brendan6555]

Rillaboom is humanoid? But... It's just a gorilla

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

The drums make it feel too human like for me personally.

[@TheReZisTLust]

@@morphstarchangeling8024 he shoulda just had logs on their sides and he beats them like a chimp asserting dominance by making loud sounds instead of Guitar hero drums.

[@jackdotzler6115]

@@TheReZisTLust I'll never understand why they didn't just make the drums built into Rillaboom's chest/abdomen. I think its because the devs were too cowardly to give it belly drum + grassy surge + grassy glide. Then again, you could always have given it a more fitting ability than grassy surge to circumvent this (why they didnt give the punk drummer gorilla the ability punk rock makes little sense to me). Just goes to highlight Zen Mode's point of sacrificing well-made designs for desperately trying to get the player to pick a min-maxed starter.

[@alexdonathen5671]

I'm glad I am not the only one who hates the powr creep without brining up older gens and really hate the big push to the starters being soooo...human like

[@emdivine]

21:38 "with the first fire-type move that drains HP" Bitter Blade would like a word

[@weisstofall2615]

At least Rillaboom is based on something that is closer to a human.

[@pokemongamer7992]

Sorry, but... I'm GLAD that Typhlosion has the same base stats as Charizard. I think it's unique and has never been done again since.

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

The only rival I can defend picking the one weak to yours is Nemona in gen 9. Her entire story comes down to her being this unsurmountable wall of a trainer who breezed through her region before we even got our first pokemon and now she's starting fresh and giving us a chance to give her the battle she's always wanted. Also you are 100% correct that these signature moves are broken. I lost to the final nemona fight 3 times because of Aqua step making her starter just sweep through my team. They are so broken that they actually hinder the final battle against Nemona because you can have this close fight where you barely out play her and then her starter clicks Flower trick 3 times and kills the rest of your team.

[@akilcharles3473]

Starter Pokemon are no often to the Pokemon you often see in the wild, like sure Gardevoir is eerily a humanoid Pokemon but much of the community loves that Pokemon, would you say you'll like Gardevoir if she was a starter Pokemon. Also I find it funny you'll say you hate Gen 8 starters like sure Cinderace & Inteleon I can understand but Rillaboom is literally an gorilla size monkey and you just said you love Infernape right after that! Also everyone has there preference when it comes to the latest fully evolve starters, for me it's Quaquaval for how expressive & fruity that Pokemon is and it's design is that of Carnival dancer that's fits in region Brazil which Paldea is base from. Gamefreak despite their business practices have actually done well with designing the Pokemon/Starters on what region they're base on.

[@bluekirby_64]

This video and the starter discourse in general give me very mixed feelings. On one hand, I agree with a lot of the complaints about the humanoid designs, the samey playstyle and rivals picking the type weak to yours; On the other hand, my favourite pokemon is Inteleon, a "carbon copy" of a previous starter (who happens to be my second favourite) with an extremely humanoid design, monotype and that same sweeper gameplay we've been fed for the past few gens. And my reasons for liking it are exactly the way they integrated a job into its design and gave it a definite personality that makes it feel more like a companion than a pet. (Also the Bidet Fingers thing was the funniest way I heard someone describe its expression, thanks for the laugh) Saying I hate the modern approach would be hypocritical as there's multiple recent starters I like, but I do wish they could go back to the simpler "monster + element" without the secondary inspiration being immediately shoved in your face like many gen 6+ starters tend to do.

[@neodica5967]

Same. My favorite starter is Incineroar, so I'm usually extremely hesitant to click on videos like this lol. I just trust that Zen Mode's content will be good. As for simpler starters, I prefer the secondary inspirations cuz it gives them more depth, but I do think scaling them back would be a good idea. Hisuian Typhlosion nails this balance pretty perfectly imo because fits into modern starter conventions while staying true to Typhlosion's simple "monster+element" design.

[@black7594]

Yall just have bad taste

[@Maconviking]

The totodile joke had me rolling 😂

[@thevioletbee5879]

Say what you will about modern starters, but I adore Primarina and Meowscarada with my entire heart.

[@redviolet5158]

primarina the light of my life my child my everything

[@Firescizor]

Based opinion

[@dedbatt8869]

Primarina is cool but Meowscarada? It’s offensively obvious furry-bait, no?!

[@robertlupa8273]

@@dedbatt8869 but what if I like furry bait? :)

[@thevioletbee5879]

@@dedbatt8869 I’m a Persona fan, ok?

[@voxicwaste]

I will love the Fennekin line until I die

[@Leavemealonenowplz]

I hate the Gen VIII starters more than any other trio. Not only did I hate the concepts behind them, they felt undercooked, like they were missing some vital element. It’s the only game where I box them upon replay.

[@andrewharris1344]

I like inteleon but I agree it is weak I feel these starters deserved that secondary typing they feel bland without that extra element.

[@Surepeacooler]

A trio with Grass/Ice, Fire/Ground & Pure Water could be interesting

[@krazie0257]

While I definitely do think their new signature moves are a bit too strong, I dont think I can agree with making a starter who's main way of playing is stall. Especially seeing as it needs to be for kids too. I'd be absolutely be down for Skeledirge and the others having weaker (or even no) sig moves but waiting is mostly a very boring way to play to me and many others. I'd still like to see more slow and bulky starters but not one who's main strat is stall. Also plenty people used to have their starter just carry the game. Its been a thing since the very beginning!

[@AlbRomano]

Yeah, defensive starters are kinda cool for more seasoned players, giving more variety and stuff, but newbies are going to be underwhelmed when their Blastoises, Meganiums or Serperiors just fail to beat most everything in one shot. And I am saying this as someone whi loves stall. My favorite pokemon is toxic heal Gliscor. But it's just not the play style for casual play.

[@GroundThing]

My stance is probably pretty controversial, but I think it's a case of "the best time to do it was 25 years ago; the second best time is now”, in abandoning the Fire-Water-Grass trio for starters. It doesn't mean we'd never see another Fire-Water-Grass trio, but it would be one of many options. The key thing is you want to form a Rock-Paper-Scissors type triangle, which no one but Fire-Water-Grass, and Fighting-Flying-Rock do as well as each other as monotypes, but with dual types, and relaxing the NVE requirements (since even without a second type, you likely still have coverage moves), it opens options significantly. With this change, now starters can still stand out, even if they have similar stat spreads to starter pokemon that came before, because they might not even share a single type, rather than just relying on secondary types to do the heavy lifting.

[@Paws42]

One thing about Leaf Blade is that in Gen 3 it had a base power of 70, before being buffed to 95 in later gens. And it has an increased crit rate Flower Trick being 70 power and guaranteed crit means it's just a better version of Gen 3 Leaf Blade. Kinda tells you how far power creep has gone

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Maybe it is me becoming more jaded and cynical but it feels like Starters have lost their luster as a concept. I know this sounds very genwunner of me but hear me out. Early on Starters were indeed very special, with designs that stood out and while not the strongest Pokemon they felt head and shoulders above the rest in terms of how special they are. I feel the best examples are ones like Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh and Alola. These are games in which Pokemon of the starter types are rare before the first badge and options for the other types are limited before the second. These emphasize how special your starter is early on, of making them feel truly irreplaceable. If you can catch Pokemon matching the type of your starter too early, and it feels less special and makes your choice feel less impactful. These are also games in which the roster doesn't outshine the starters in terms of design; the Kanto starters shine like beacons in a line up of fully evolved gen 1 Pokemon, meanwhile in Galar those starters just fade into the background as stronger, more available, better designed Pokemon are in the Pokedex. Power creep is a bitch and it has made starters painfully average which I suppose is the point of them just being starters. Now they just feel like another party member I can just box if I get bored of them instead of the inseparable keystone member of my team that they used to be.

[@catticorner]

really glad you touched on signature moves here, you kinda took the words right out of my mouth on that! i feel like it's become a problem not just for starters, but almost _every_ new pokemon. it's like they can't just BE a pokemon anymore, everything has to have some sort of new signature move or unique, niche ability. like, they've been doing this to such an overwhelming amount of pokemon that there have been so many new moves and abilities i didn't even know existed bc they just gave it to one random thing. it also sort of feels like they do this to try and cater to the competitive scene, and i feel like things have been leaning that way more and more each gen. acknowledging your competitive players and making some mechanics for them isn't a bad thing inherently (i think it's great how accessible they've made it over the years!), but it feels like they're honing in so much on crafting pokemon JUST for those purposes that we're losing a lot of the charm of pokemon that just... exist

[@colecronin7660]

I wouldn’t say it was gen 6 was the start of starters being humanoid and being given roles. There were starters like that all the way back in gen 3 4 and 5. Blaziken is incredibly humanoid. When you see the gen 8 starter final evolutions for example, while they are humanoid, you can still clearly see what animal they clearly are without knowing anything about the first stages. With Blaziken, i could not tell you it’s a chicken if I saw it. It has a full on human body, more than any other starter. Gen 4 gave us Infernape, a Pokémon that shares similarities to Goku, and Empoleon, a Pokémon that is literally based on Napoleon. Infernape is also very human-like similarly to Blaziken, which I can give it some more slack for because monkeys are very similar to humans anyway. They can also fill certain roles too. Gen 5 gave us Serperior, a Pokémon based on royalty, as well as Samurott, a samurai Pokémon, just like how Inteleon is a secret agent, Incineroar a wrestler or Meowscarada a magician. This argument doesn’t really make sense. Pokémon didn’t just magically change in gen 6. The only regions that fully had ‘old starter designs’ were Kanto and Johto, which were the first two regions. And they clearly changed because of how bland the Johto starters were. I don’t understand why everyone says ‘Pokémon was ruined when they made the the jump to 3d’, with poor arguments like this as proof.

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

To add to this, I don't think that starter Pokemon becoming more humanoid is a problem, and I for one agree that it makes them feel less bland. Sure, they aren't going to be for everyone, but they also don't HAVE to be: I'm pretty sure that everyone has a favorite and least favorite starter from each trio, and making them more anthropomorphic isn't going to change that. Also, I saw other commentors mentioning how your starter is meant to be your partner, or that the game is a fantasy experience first and foremost, so having them being relegated to strictly being pets feels dumb, ESPECIALLY when they are used to battle other trainers with their own Pokemon, or even the very fact that they actually might be popular as pets because they aren't just animals

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Yeah the "pokemon are meant to resemble animals" shtick ppl with this complaint give has become eye rolling. Its Pocket MONSTERS, which can be literally anything as the ancient folklore from the country the series originates from and serves as inspiration for a good chunk of the 1000+ roster frequently shows. They don't have to be animalistic, in fact the ones that are just "uniquely colored animal" tend to be the most boring designs from early on in the series. Like if spearow and fearow came out today, everyone would be tearing them a new one. Hell, i dont think anybody likes them much to begin with despite them having og 151 tax. And its not like its hard to tell what animal say, Cinderace or Incineroar are to begin with. Its ok not like designs, but acting like its some new issue that needs to be fixed when its been in the series design philosophy from the start is just getting a little annoying from the community. I don't think its anyone's problem but yours you cant headcanon an uwu baby boi personality onto your Rillaboom as easily you could onto your Venasaur when you were 7 years old.

[@Lira_orpheus]

I think a problem is you are generalizing to much. The problem is not humanoid designs, is pokemon now feeling human first and pokemon second. The problem is not pokemon being based on human roles is them being that role first and a pokemon second. That's what changed after gen 6, pokemon are being designed as characters first and pokemon second.

[@pixality7902]

​​@@matthewkuscienko4616of course everyone has a favorite and least favorite in every trio. That is not the same as liking any of the designs. The problem is that pokemon does not know what moderation is. Humanoid pokemon existing isn't the problem, but the designs are more difficult to get right without being in the uncanny valley. I like some of them but I like far more animalistic designs. Its fine if you like humanoid pokemon. That still shouldn't blind you to the problem. The problem is the lack of variety of final Evo starters. There isn't something to appeal to everyone because they insist on making a lot of anthropomorphic pokemon that the internet is going to make NSFW content around. I kind of like the SV starters, but only because skeledirge keeps its feet on the ground. This video says nothing about only making them pets. That's your own extrapolation. It's almost like you know it's ridiculous that there are so many anthropomorphic starters, so are pre emptively assuming pokemon would go all in on pets if they decided to make more designs like that. We just want some starter designs like that. I've wanted to do teams that are entirely quadrapedal and the starter often wrecks the idea or I can't use one. We will see if they keep improving. I like SV dex more than the last 5 gens before it.

[@advil9567]

It’s not about them having humanoid designs, Zen said in the video that he’s fine with humanoid designs but as soon as they start behaving and collecting the roles of humans as wild animals *before* being Pokemon it feels uncanny and foreign. Of course Blaziken vaguely has the body of a human, but at least its entire personality isn’t based off of a single skill. Not all Blaziken are the same, but all Cinderace are. I can’t bond with any of the new anthropomorphic starters because I feel like their personalities are being pre written into their designs and forced onto me before I can even characterize them myself. The journey is about me and my partner Pokémon, not me and my world championship soccer player friend. Key difference here: doesn’t matter if they look humanoid, stop forcing Pokemon starters to be caricatures of a literal real life person because it’s just fuckin weird

[@DCT-tt8ib]

I personally really like Incineroar; I think the blend of a wrestler with a Tiger/Jaguar-esque big cat makes for a really fun design. But I get why it’s offputting to some people, especially with how the rest of the line is just a mundane housecat. I think people would be less hesitant to Incineroar if Torracat was a more effective middle stage between it and Litten.

[@vertigofy6699]

god bless chesnaught nation

[@georgeaber4113]

The jobs in starter pokemon aren't to make them relatable. It's so they have a more creative concept then element plus animal. Even in hoenn blaziken was a kickboxer, and its one of the most popular starter pokemon. I do think the series isnt getting creative enough with their starters as they always seem to pick a profession as the additional concept instead of something like mythology. I do think starters like cinderace, inteleon, and quaquaval do seem to have their personalaty make them not very relatable.

[@TheReZisTLust]

Blaziken based off Cockfighting... Shamo chicken. It stands upright

[@KodyTauros]

Starting my work day with a Zen upload, you love to see it

[@KodyTauros]

You hit the nail on the head when talking about the Paldean signature moves

[@smackjack78]

The recent starters are moving away from the original idea of Pokémon, but that doesn’t mean there are no bangers from this design philosophy. To me, the humanoid aspect doesn’t really factor into whether or not I like a design. Hell, if anything, they improve the design to me by default because it helps them stick out in my mind. For example, Meowscarada is a charming cat that acts like a somewhat hoaxy magician (hence the Dark typing), and Cinderace is an awesome soccer rabbit that ignites pebbles into fireballs (plus I love rabbits). I love both of these for being cool animals with fun roles attached to them, and they act like companions, as starters should. Humanoid starters can work, it just depends on the execution

[@Ylurple]

I love Meganium not just for its cute design, but because of how difficult it is to use in Johto, and how using it is a challenge. Not to mention that when I used it in Colosseum, it was a major asset to my team and really got to shine in Orre.

[@andrewschaosson]

I respect your opinion on the matter, but to me, an essential part of a starter Pokemon design is making it feel like a companion, like a friend. To me it's easier to pass that feeling in a pokemon that has a character, than a pokemon that is very beastly in nature. Not saying that beastly Pokémon are bad, just saying that it shouldn't be a starter. And no, I didn't start from the more recent games, my first Pokemon game was Fire Red, in the day I am writing this the only Pokemon games I have beaten are the GameBoy, GBA and NDS mainline ones. Once again, big respect to you. And for anyone else that would like to argue otherwise, I would also like some respect.

[@Sequal1605]

very interesting, you're probably the first person I've seen to think this way.

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

So do you think all the starters suck until like gen 6?

[@krazie0257]

I can respect it. I think a part of pokemon is feeling cool too though. Ordering a massive Crocodile to crush down your opponent with jaws of ice feels a lot cooler than telling my massive Gorilla to beat his drums so that the plants will hit my opponent. Asking my giant, world carrying turtle to shake the earth for me feels cooler than asking my furry wrestler to do the same. A starter is a friend, yeah, but also a beast with its own free will. The beast could turn on me at any moment but decides not too, like my real pets. I love my cat but theres nothing stopping him from running away or even off my lap at any moment, he decides to trust me, not me.

[@glasspencil]

I think you should pick a different word other than ‘character’ since beastly Pokémon also have that. ‘Character’ implies personality and conduct, which is found in all Pokémon, from scenes in the anime to specific instances in Pokédex entries. It is also found in idle animations and poses in the games. Perhaps you’re in favor of humanoid Pokémon because they can stand on your level as a literal partner. However, like someone else mentioned somewhere in the comments, I think Pokémon work better as pets that you help nurture and grow, and it’s easier to see them as pets when they look less like you.

[@andrewschaosson]

@@Sequal1605 I have heard that many times in many different things, lol. But thanks

[@taylorchesser8990]

I don't necessarily agree with everything said here, but you definitely have valid points

[@timothybell5067]

Not the Granite Cave music 💀

[@Ylurple]

why?

[@MishKoz]

Yeah honestly, it's so hard to believe that any modern starter is something that could exist within the world as a wild animal. Like it's easy to believe that Pokemon like Bulbasaur, Totodile, or Torchic exist somewhere in the world, but they're just _really_ really rare. There is no way I could believe that Inteleon is a wild animal that has to hunt for food. That guy drives to a grocery store and pays with a credit card. That being said, I will forgive Incineroar because he's funny, and I like him as a meta joke about the oversaturation of Fire/Fighting mons by being a wrestling heel (you're _supposed_ to hate him).

[@meatchips4936]

Isn't that kind of the point? These are monsters, not animals. Pokémon were really never supposed to be "wild animals" , they can also be wild animals, but they aren't strictly that. Even in the older generations we see Pokémon that clearly aren't animals and are humanoid or that are objects Also you took as example the first stages, but blaziken or empoleon don't really read as "wild animals" to me considering they are also humanoid with a "role"

[@MishKoz]

@@meatchips4936 Early on in the series they were definitely _just_ monsters, but as time's gone on they outright replace real animals in the world of Pokemon. I guess I could rephrase the point as "Inteleon doesn't feel like something that could exist out in the world of Pokemon on its own." I feel like design choices that are meant to give a Pokemon individuality don't make sense when it's part of a whole species. Every starter can breed; you can have an infinite army of them if you really want, and presumably they do exist _somewhere_ in the wild. This sort of thing would make more sense for legendary Pokemon, where in-universe there's usually only supposed to be one of them. Finally, Blaziken and Empoleon are at least kind of plausible that they could exist in the wild. Blaziken is just an exaggerated version of a Shamo Chicken, and its fighting typing, and more "courageous" traits are reminiscent of how protective roosters can be. Empoleon I could definitely see existing in the Antarctic, ruling over a flock of Piplup, and its steel typing being perfect for breaking through ice.

[@northsouteastwesk3435]

Many thoughts have been given here but now i want to see a defensive fire starter now that you've pointed it out

[@PauloHenrique-op9zw]

Inceneroar is a Defensive fire type He just don't look like it

[@3clisp315]

skeledirge

[@tangerinepaint3643]

Skeledirge and Incineroar are

[@talonitex6441]

26:12 damn bro that was a deep cut I felt that one across my screen 😭😭😭

[@Thisdudeelec]

Brand new zen mode video is one hell of a birthday gift

[@RickyRiceB]

I think this may be a little too broken, but swapping the normal abilities with the hidden abilities would push the starter’s gameplay diversity further for the people that play for the single player campaign

[@nadosszubster9515]

Incineroar is technically a defensive fire type starter

[@king_of_rats_Monfernep]

Only in VGC, but you right.

[@jmurray1110]

And objectively a support Pokémon

[@shiruotakuno28]

There's a difference between defense and support. Inceneroar is a support Pokemon.

[@king_of_rats_Monfernep]

@@shiruotakuno28 yes. My favourite support Pokémon is Cherim in duo with Groudon (it's death duo,what destroyed all in they road)

[@Neopolis3]

I don't get the claim that the gen 9 starters are mechanically similar. Skeledirge is slow, even with Torch Song it's not going to "sweep" through anything. It's a wallbreaker, it can raise its attack stat to insane heights, something Meowscarada can't easily do. Meowscarada is fast and frail, but has no reliable boosting moves (learns Nasty Plot and Hone Claws, but no Swords Dance), and a pretty limited support pool for a grass type, which is novel. It also gets some "tricky" moves like U-Turn and Trick. Quaquaval's speed is middling, so it's not going to be able to outspeed everything right away, but if you can leave it in for at least a turn or two, it can set up and pull of a sweep. It also has the strongest turn 1 with 120 base attack and Close Combat. I really don't see many mechanical similarities between them except "they're all strong".

[@andrewharris1344]

Yeah true. I feel he’s only looking at from the main story point of view which I don’t think is the best way to judge a Pokémon’s power and battle style.

[@jmcbango]

Feel this^ He kept mentioning wanting a defensive fire starter when dirge is right there! Torch song existing doesnt take away its defensive stat spread, utility movepool, and hidden ability

[@andrewharris1344]

@@jmcbango honestly I like they are making them more viable outside of the main game I mean the starters are important and if the power levels getting raised so should they to match.

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

I mean they may have more nuance in competitive but in-game they basically devolve to "click this one button 7 times and win instantly" so they end up playing the same. I think it's fair to judge a starter pokemon based on how it works in the main story mode, it's the literal first pokemon you're given in it (also because most of this channel is based on the actual main game too). Doesn't help that most of gen 9s story mode is really easy too, in some of the harder encounters you at least have to think about switching out once in a while which basically isn't the case for a big chunk of the game.

[@Neopolis3]

@@InsertFunnyThingHere You can just press your strongest attack and win with almost every starter in every Pokemon game. But even when using them in game, if you're using Meowscarada, you know you can't switch it in on any hard hitting attack because it has paper defenses. In game, you can't expect Skeledirge to stay at full health while setting up Torch Songs because it's going to get outsped sometimes even if it oneshots everything. These nuances still exist in-game, and I'd argue they play more distinctly than, say, Feraligatr and Typhlosion.

[@bromeethere]

Everyone has their icky starter gen. Gen 5 is mine, and surprisingly Emboar, which is widely hated, is my only favourite. Oshawott was okay until Dewott, and then it became this unrecognizable dog otter samurai hybrid. Snivy line is... bane of my existence. Get it out of my sight.

[@3clisp315]

This ruined my day

[@arnodoesyoutube]

The goat is branching out into new types of videos, love it! I often like to box my starters because I want to form my own team, so when Sprigatito didn't stay on its 4 legs, I put Arboliva and Brambleghast on my team instead. Skeledirge definitely carries that starter trio.

[@donutdragon4076]

For me, pokemon like decidueye, primarina, and rillaboom don't feel that bad to me, because while they are humanlike, the animals they are based off of fit well with that humanlike theme? For example like yeah, Decidueye is standing on two-legs, but owls typically stand on two legs and I thought the idea of it using its feathers like arrows was like SO COOL! Rillaboom is a little offsetting still, but it is a gorilla and so it just kinda made sense for it to be humanlike, where as the other gen 8 starters make ZERO SENSE to be humanlike it's like ACTUALLY painful

[@Ben-wu3or]

I think the job thing is just weird in general, it's clear that they're trying too hard to force it on every starter... even the last non-humanoid starter we got, Skeledirge, seems like it just had the label of "singer" slapped onto a random crocodile to keep the theme going

[@PoiyoLmao]

I mean, not really. The entire line has clear mariachi theming, fuecoco's thing is that it likes singing, crocalor dons a hat thats indicative of mariachi performers, and skeledirge's is obvious. It wasn't forced, it wasn't even that subtle really. This is further evidenced when you look at their learn set, which has a lot of sound-based moves in it by level up (Roar, Hyper Voice, Torch Song, etc.) heck, crocodiles are known for being some of the most vocal reptiles, so it makes sense to tie that into a musician themed Pokemon. I can't speak for Sprig or Quaxly, but Fuecoco's was pretty well thought out all things considered.

[@regularphill]

What about the cool af fire bird?

[@zizzix08]

Really interesting video. Glad you're exploring other video options too.

[@rhast57]

I really dislike humanoid pokemon. I almost never use them. They weird me out, especially when they WEAR CLOTHING.

[@ferrisffalcis]

this is such a strange rant to me, i think starter designers have gotten much better over time

[@FrostFoxChick]

Eh, I dunno. You make a lot of valid points here, and I do agree with most of them. I guess I’m just a little surprised to see such a pessimistic video. Your videos have always stood out to me for how compassionate and thoughtful they are towards “bad” aspects of Pokémon. Poketube is kinda overrun with ultra-negative wank videos about bad mons, bad games, bad characters. I’ve always respected how you are able to look at these flawed elements and see their potential. If you need to make these sorts of “standard poketuber” critique videos to keep the channel alive, I totally get that. Just my opinion, I guess, as someone who’s been watching since the beginning.

[@inquatic]

i like rivals picking the counter to your starter quite a bit because it means you may have to deviate off of using your starter more

[@AkaiAzul]

I want my Pokemon to be animal-like in a way that fulfills the role of a trainer. I am the ward, the one who nurtures and guides them, who bonds and grows with them. They depend on me to thrive like a pet. When they're humanoid, they feel they should be independent and unique. You become a parent and want their independence. But they aren't. They're required to depend on you at every step. If they're forced to stay at your side, it leads to uncomfortable similarities to slavery. Furthermore, as they become humanoid, individuality become expected. Any person could want to become any role they choose for themselves. An animal or species has certain traits that are similar between those in the same vein, with room to stand out and become themselves, something that the trainer can influence. A turtle like Blastoise loves water as they need it to ro live. A Blastoise who wants to fight, to chill, to protect, to nurture, to be loyal, they're all possibilities. A Quaquaval is...a dancer. A Brazilian dancer. They're all this, regardless of what you do. One role, no influence, no change. My role feels meaningless if nothing I do can influence their growth. They're not peacocks that can choose to dance to whatever they want, to grow however they want, to not even dance at all. *They* _must_ be Brazilian dancers. Old starters can be themselves. New starters are fated to their design.

[@fapplebees8925]

I've had this thought before though somewhat different. A Cinderace plays soccer and kicks. That's its purpose. A Blaziken could do all of those things (probably better) among many others things because his gimmick isn't funneled down to one single thing.

[@absentapollo]

Personally, I'm one of the 12 Serperior fans, I love that smug ass snake

[@Theowlhouse-jd6us]

bro says the starter always having a theme started in gen 6 its been around since the begining

[@thomasallen7061]

Oof… that last line hit surprisingly hard.

[@whiteeeveeangel]

I had a thought during the course of this video that i don't think I've seen anyone else comment... What if the starter trio were all types of a fully neutral triangle and their final forms gained the traditional Grass/Water/Fire triangle; almost the inverse of what we've gotten in recent years? I did some mapping and found that there are 16 triangles that are fully neutral to each other that specifically don't include the traditional triangle, Normal, Ghost, Dragon, or Steel (all types that are either too nonreactive or was too powerful/resistant for early game). I think the ones that interested me most were Electric/Ice/Fairly and Poison/Flying/Dark. The second one could also pass as the starter trio for an evil team game!

[@EinSilverRose]

Gen 8 starters are by far the worst starters in the series in terms of character design. Only the Grookey line actually looks good. The Scorbunny and Sobble lines look so bland and uninteresting although even the Grookey line suffers from an uninteresting design. Besides if a monkey/ape/gorilla inspired design does NOT look humanoid then you did something horribly wrong. At the very least the Grookey line has that. Gen 9 brought back the good starter designs and besides Meowscarada is just a very oversized clingy cat who can use magic tricks based on its pokedex entries.

[@TheWizardMus]

Id like to see a region where in the late game in a hidden area or as extremely rare spawns a second form of the final starters, showing how they are in the wild and your trusty partner is the domestic form. I think this would solve another aspect of the Trading Problem that modern games have been trying to fix by making Pokémon like Gengar available in the wild. Picture a Meowscarada thats super stealthy instead of being flamboyant because it was raised as a pet

[@MrShdutchy]

I would love to see a "Sound" type added and given to Rillaboom

[@knight-of-rain]

Meowth taking the Malicious Moonsault at 16:30 like: "Guess I'll die ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

[@Haze-ug3ng]

I don't like any of the Gen 2 and Gen 5 starters. Those are the only games where I simply boxed the starter and used something else.

[@deltaquarayza]

Me waiting for Fire/Electric starter:

[@ehco7573]

I chose sobble in Galar. Why? because I would have been viscerally upset to have to see intelleon on my screen, even if it wasn't mine.

[@tehSunBro]

This issue gets so much worse when you don't have to choose. I started out with Yellow version, so my first playthrough of any generation has allways been using all 3 starters. It gets so boring when all of them are so broken, that it doesn't even matter which one you bring out.

[@joaquinduverne6259]

I feel that when signature moves are too good, playing with any other moveset feels awful, since you're throwing away a lot of potential. This is why I liked a lot earlier starter trios, before gen 7-9. For example Meganium, my favourite starter, can play as a bulky tank with leech seed, synthesis, poison powder, protect. Or it can have some of these support moves + giga drain and ancient power, as a bulky special attacker with a chance to omni boost. Maybe you want to set screens, since they learn both. Or you can also go another way, learning swords dance and earthquake, becoming a sturdy physical attacker. This is what I want when I have a Pokemon, customization. Most starters felt like this since there weren't a lot of auto include moves besides good stab attacks, so you had a lot of space to create different strategies. Now the signature moves themselves do everything for you during a playthrough and that's a bit of a shame.

[@garrettradtke4840]

Once again Zen Mode gas uploaded, and once again my day has been made.

[@aavagourlay8098]

Alola was the first time I didn’t choose a fire type starter first because I was very off-put by Incineroar’s design, though Primarina being tailor made for my love of mermaids definitely sealed the deal

[@50mLsalt]

I like the branching out into different aspects of the gameplay of Pokémon from an in game perspective. There’s a ton of nuzlocke and competitive content so I find different analyses like this really thoughtful and interesting. Would love to hear more of your thoughts going forward

[@lavenchanSSP]

When ultra sun and moon came out and poipole was supposed to be a starter in the ultra beast world. I thought we were supposed to get new starter trio but ultra beast versions. Instead of a super effective triangle; it would be a resistance triangle. Even if it didn't make sense.

[@jadenseju2778]

Ok, fair points, but I have a problem with you calling Flower Trick the weakest out of the 3 signature moves of the Paldean Starters. Aqua Step is inferior, it's just raising the speed stat of an already fast pokemon, what is going to do, take 3 turns before I take one?

[@jasondahfolf4325]

My counterpoint is that Aqua Step is designed with Quaquaval in mind who has Moxie as a hidden ability along 120 base attack and a middling base 85 speed. It wants Aqua Step to outspeed anything and get the snowball rolling

[@tangerinepaint3643]

>already fast >85 base speed then again I have a rather skewed interpretation of what I think is fast, cause I usually think of the 110 speed benchmark.

[@notsaxor]

glad you're able to do custom art for thumbnails now

[@crumpetsancheese2197]

To be honest, i've never really been a big fan of starters. I don't dislike them, but they've never really reached out to me like they seem to do to other people. I usually end up looking through the first few routes for a pokemon i'd like to use, catching it, and then boxing them.

[@Hydraina]

Honestly same. There are a couple starters I like alright, but I'm still waiting for a design that truly speaks out to me

[@volbla]

Starters don't feel connected to the world the same as other pokemon since they can't be caught in the wild. Why am i given this special attention? Bug Keeper Bimmy doesn't have a starter. He just has some worms. Do i deserve more than him? Maybe i'm asking too much of a game that's #madeforkids, but wouldn't it be fun to start from nothing and gradually work your way towards a competent team?

[@liuxaun8385]

Totally. The best runs are when you ditch the starter.

[@tangerinepaint3643]

@@volbla what if starter pokemon were extremely rare encounters in some areas?

[@TheWrathAbove]

​@@volbla I would not say this is a "made for kids" issue, it's extremely standard for games to give the player character uniquely overpowered/rare tools, especially in the context of in-universe.

[@justanoreo2.0]

YO GUYS GOT THE FIRE THUMBNAIL NOW (Also snivy line is the best fight me)

[@PhantomSturm]

I picked Litten and was hoping for a Saber Tooth, not a Pro wrestler. Oh well.

[@meta527II]

To be fair we still have some pretty awesome starters like Skeledirge, Greninja, Decidueye and Cinderace.

[@DSmaster8585]

I fully agree with the points on Paldea's starters! Skeledirge sweeped my entire playthrough (especially the Elite 4) of Scarlet, even thought I handicapped myself by using a revolving team of around 20 Pokemon (to not get overlevelled, due to exp share). I did the same with Meowscarada in Violet. And my partner beat Violet with only Quaquaval and Sunkern😂

[@Krona-fb4dn]

I thought about it this way. Someone snuggling with a pikachu in their bed like its their cat would sound normal and like an everyday thing in the Pokemon world. But apply this to something like Machoke and its... not the same.

[@jacksonhester6747]

I would like to defend the concept of a balanced ecosystem, this is something that is found in nature. I know it’s a bit convenient that they perfectly counter each other, but this happens in nature there is always an arms race of evolution so to speak love your content, bro.