What If Ned Married Cersei Lannister? (Game Of Thrones)

#whatif #gameofthrones #asoiaf
What if Eddard Stark married a lioness instead of fish in another life?

[@damonwade6591]

Tbh i dont think Ned brings Jon home in this timeline. He just saw what lannisters are capable of and for all he knows Cersei is just as bad. He would give Jon to Howland and not take the risk

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

Perhaps,unless he falls in love with Cersei, which is possible. She's beautiful & very charming, especially in her younger years. And Ned's a reasonable guy and wouldn't blame his wife for her bro's and dad's actions, especially if he already loved her. She would possibly kill baby Jon or try to,ruining their relationship.

[@ericjimenez4360]

@@damonwade6591 im actually gonna take this one further. If she openly says she will kill jon if brought to court, I think ned might actually tell the truth as to who jon really is. It might ingratiate her into now understanding her point of him not being a cheater as he could use the "its my sisters child" logic since she "loves" her brother so much. The hard part is her keeping it secret from tywin who would definitely would keep it on his back pocket

[@cloverazar5315]

We know Cersei doesn’t do well with bastards, so I can see Jon going to Howland. However, Robb is older than Jon, so by definition not!Joffrey would be the eldest and his position is not threatened by Jon’s existence Further, it isn’t like Ned has any further dalliances. He’s doggedly loyal to Cat, and by the time we see them they’re the loving, cuddling, quietly affectionate Perfect Parents Sexy In Love (cause Rickon ain’t that old😅) So now imagine a Cersei who’s faced with “his mother died and I’m an honourable man, so I need to raise him… but I swear to you there shall be none other than you from here out, I give you my apology and my word” … a Cersei who still wants to be loved by her husband might mellow out. And as she keeps having pretty babies and Ned keeps his hands warming in the correct kirtle… She might never looooooove Jon, but her husband’s base born son might grow up to be Notffrey’s solid brother And that’s assuming Tywin doesn’t just throw in with Rhaegar, depose Aerys, marry Cersei to Ned and then IMMEDIATELY betrothe little Sancella to wee baby Aegon - and probably baby rhaenys to little Aemond Targaryen-aka-Jon Snow

[@HeviltheDevil]

If Ned married Cersei, let’s be honest, Tywin would make sure Ned became king, not Robert. Wouldn’t even need to be violent (not that Tywin was above it) - he could easily convince Jon Arryn that Ned would be a good King and Robert not so much. (And that the ‘Targaryen grandmother’ thing is really immaterial when the throne was won by right of conquest.)

[@Marqhll]

That's actually a very good point.

[@ifeeldead463]

And not like Robert would mind, he'd probs be like "Yeah, lets give my buddy Ned the throne! Now if you need me, Im gonna go off and be a sellsword". Then the events of the "What if Ned Stark became the King of Westeros" video happens, this time with Cersei as his wife and three different kids. Johanna would be set to marry Jon and either Robb is set to marry Dany or Viserys marries Dany first to keep her away from the Lannisters and Starks. Alternatively, Viserys insists of getting Dany to marry Jon, as per family tradition.

[@Copernicus91]

🎯

[@natebaxter9551]

The problem was always Ned. Arryn put together a masterful display of politics but made two mistakes. He got Ned to marry Cat too soon. His marriage to Lysa should have been enough to secure the Vale. And, did the three of them ever discuss who would be king when they were done? Because none of the big 3 actually wanted it.

[@Copernicus91]

@@natebaxter9551😂 .. maybe they didnt think they could actually win

[@bcw1313]

I honestly think there’s a decent chance Cersei could sus out Jon’s true parentage if Ned brought him home. Cersei isn’t nearly as dumb as we sometimes make her out to be. She, by Tywin’s own assessment, “isn’t as smart as (she) think(s) (she) is”. I could see her being clever and emotionally manipulative enough to get the truth out of Ned. In that scenario Jon could actually become her favorite as he gives her family the ultimate trump card: a child with a claim to the throne. I can totallly see her deliberately fostering the sibling bonds between Jon and her own children with the one ideal the Starks and Lannisters share, “family is everything”. What’s funny is that under NO circumstances would Cersei ever let Jon remotely entertain the idea of going to the way. Sure it would be for ever her own machinations, but I think Cersei could be an absolutely doting mother to Jon.

[@cloverazar5315]

Not to mention: Cersei knew Rhaegar, Lyanna and Elia. She’s bad at strategy, not politics - she’s masterful at reading the court. So honourable Ned disappears right after their marriage, comes back WITH HIS SISTER’S BONES and Arthur Dayne’s Sword, and a baby fresh out the fecking womb. Helen Keller could have guessed Jon’s identity, not least when Ned’s like “my son might not have my name but He’s A Stark” and Cersei over dinner, “I was sorry to hear of your sister’s passing. I’ve commissioned a tapestry and I’ll ensure her son knows her face.” “Thank you, my lady, I’d like tha--- ah, hells.” “Ha, I knew it.” “Don’t tell-“ “Robert? I wouldn’t tell that man the weather if we were both standing in a field.”

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

@@bcw1313 Tywin never says that in the books.Her brothers see her as someone who "doesn't lack the wits",but is often blinded by her arrogance&paranoia(after Joff's & Tywin's death),as well as someone who allows her emotions to obscure her judgement. I'm not sure she'd find out the truth about Jon. She's intelligent, but very prejudiced as well.Once she starts believing in something it's very hard to dissuade her& she'd probably have an opinion about who Jon's mum was from the beginning. She'd be very offended, thus emotional,by her husband having a bastard as well, so she probably wouldn't use her reason to the maximum. Also, I believe she'd be offended by Jon's very existence even if she knew the truth,because she cares what ppl say&think about her. Also, Cat was very intelligent as well,as intelligent as Cersei, &she never sussed out the truth. Cersei has informers&spies,unlike Cat,though. I'm not sure she'd still have them in the North, but I'm inclined to believe she would.

[@ifeeldead463]

I can also see her and Tywin fostering a closer bond between Johanna and Jon so they can eventually be married once theyre old enough and Jon takes the throne so they can finally have a Lannister in the royal family. Jon's her cousin after all so it's perfectly legal in Westeros

[@sayyidf.b.6378]

Cersei is clever but you're forgetting that her ego and need for self-gratification often get in her way. Cersei is smart enough to figure out who Jon's parents are, but I think the blow to her ego would cloud her judgment too much for her to figure it out and put the pieces together.

[@cloverazar5315]

@ but if she knows his paternity, there is no blow to her ego. If she knows he’s covering for Lyanna, then he lied to protect his beloved little sister (something Cersei would understand implicitly) from a marriage she didn’t want (something that an 18yo Cersei might see as admirable). So now not only has Ned demonstrated he can be relied on to defend her children at all costs BUT: now it’s in Cersei’s self-interest to raise Jon to be 1) a king and 2) thick as thieves with his “siblings” And honestly Cersei might be happy in the North. This is a culture where women can be fighters. Cersei like “I shoulda held a sword” and Ned like “well if you feel that strongly about it… Maege might be available. We’ll ask when she comes for the name day party.”

[@astrinymris9953]

I don't think Cersei and Jaime would fall back into their old relationship in this scenario. Cersei was apparently loyal to her marriage vows for the first months of her marriage to him, only giving up after being faced with evidence of his infidelity with a cousin at Greenstone. But since Ned wouldn't continue to be unfaithful to Cersei after bringing Jon Snow to Winterfell, I think Cersei would calm the frell down and accept the situation. It would probably help that this "shame" was taking place in what she considered the backwoods instead at court. In fact, not being at court with all its games and intrigues would reduce a lot of the stress on Cersei. In the North people are focused on survival, and can't be bothered with constantly vying over power and status. Being separated from Tywin Lannister would remove even more stress. It would also help that Ned isn't a domestic abuser. And after thinking about it, she'd realize that since she *hadn't* married the king, then Maggy the Frog's prediction couldn't possibly be true, which be a huge relief. In fact, without anyone to fight, manipulate, or perform for, Cersei might began to ask herself what *she* wanted to do.

[@cloverazar5315]

And women in the North are allowed much more agency. Cersei like “I should have wielded the sword!” And Maege Mormont like “GLAD TO HEAR IT let’s get some calluses on those soft southern hands of yours!” “Whoa wait what!!” “Yea! Come along, my lady, you’re about my Dacey’s height, we’ll get you some britches.” “My husband-“ “is too large, my lady, you’d step right out of his pants.” “………. What does your husband thing of your mace, Lady Maege?” “What husband? When I want a daughter I just go out and find myself a bear.”

[@Zedvais]

Yep i agree with your take, most of the times she is just pushed by the stress by her father, the court and robert. Ned is a really loving man, although he will take longer to reconcile with cersei he will eventually did it and cersei not getting stressed all the time aside the cold would probably forgive ned although she will demand that jon goes to the wall as soon as possible.

[@agent45625]

I think there's a fanfic that was built on this very scenario though. It's called 'Lady Stark', and Ned marries Cersei in that fic while Robert gets Catelyn as his wife.

[@Hektols]

Yes, it's very good

[@Chinchilla2310]

Ooo, I’d love to check it out. Can I get a brief synopsis?

[@georged7059]

They’re the best ship

[@mryoungandbrave1]

I think I found a decent reason to why Tywin would want Ned to marry Cersei. During the 18th and 19th centuries, pine trees held naval importance as masts. Asha Greyjoy (Game of Thrones renamed her Yara Greyjoy to avoid confusion with the wildling Osha) wanted to use the Pine Trees of Sea Dragon Point in the North to make ships. It's possible Tywin would want to marry Ned to Cersei to use the same tress, build more ships for the Lannister Fleet to defend Lannisport.

[@lysirishfleur3030]

Lumber. Smart

[@Voxdalian]

If Cersei feels punished by Tywing for having to marry Ned, she might side with Ned to punish Tywin after the rebellion, which could make them closer. Their marriage would also lead to Ned getting to know Jaime and learning about the wildfire plot, making him probably less judgemental and improving their relationship. I could see the Lannister family coming out better, but Tywin personally weaker.

[@astrinymris9953]

Pausing at 16:29 to note that what bothered Catelyn most was that Jon Snow was raised at Winterfell alongside his legitimate half-siblings. She even thinks that she could excuse a dozen bastards if they'd been raised far from Winterfell. None of Robert's bastards are raised in the Red Keep. He once suggested bringing his firstborn Mya to King's Landing, but Cersei shut that down immediately. Catelyn probably wouldn't stoop to a veiled threat to the girl's life, but I'm sure she'd express her disapproval clearly. Another irritation was that Jon looked more like Ned than any of her sons, with only Arya inheriting the Stark coloring. That's not going to be an issue with Robert, who's apparently incapable of siring a child who doesn't have coal black hair. All in all, I think Catelyn will be able to cope with being Robert's wife.

[@ifeeldead463]

And considering that Cat is a more pleasant person than Cersei, I can see Robert at least liking her as a friend or appreciating her as a nice roommate and company, especially since his bastards are out of sight, out of mind

[@revanius2213]

Plus Mya is a daughter, part of her problem with Jon was that he was a son and that his potential children could be a threat to Robb's in the North, a bastard daughter is unlikely to pose such a threat, most likely she would just end up as a companion to one of Catelyn's daughters.

[@dllps]

One thing to always take into consideration when it comes to Cersei is her persona. She be extremely resentful and “depressed”. The North is like the hillbillies, the savages, the not so civilized. She was the “great lady” of her generation, being beautiful, rich, from a Great House of fertile women who hardly die in labor, etc. Marrying her to Ned would be a sentence of exile for her. She would be far from everything that remotely resembled her luxurious life. The closest thing to those memories would be White Harbor and it would be considerably far for her to go continuously. Furthermore, being a narcissist, knowing that her daughter could be Queen would really create heavy conflicts, besides that she would probably despise the “northern children” and favor the “southern children” especially those who most resembled her or Jaime physically. It would be an interesting scenario however she against Jon, but it would still be a cliché of “The Wicked Stepmother”. One thing is certain she would severely punish her children who had contact with him and would emotionally manipulate them to hate, fear and despise Jon. The Stark children would be different too. Maybe some would be less moral and ethical. What would become of Rob would also be very different, since his mother would spoil him a lot and he might not even become Jon's friend. Theon would be in an even more dangerous situation, sending a Greyjoy to be in the custody of a Lannister, after they attacked Lannisport, is not a safe idea. The boy would probably suffer “accidents”. She would also not allow herself to be referred to as Cersei Stark, Lady Stark. She would always insist on still being a Lannister and calling her Stark would be an insult to her.

[@Jeppe_P]

I think in this timeline Tywin would pull the king's landing plot way sooner. Navigating a way to keep the Baratheons fighting, but making sure Ned ends up on the throne instead of Robert. Especially since this would make his daughter the next queen anyway. He would need to find a better way however to dispose of Rheagars children and wife as he would probably be more aware of Ned's honor. Perhaps he can chase them into the city where they die in a skirmish or something.

[@cloverazar5315]

@@Jeppe_P realistically it’s even better to keep them. Ned’s honour can be trusted, and there’s no faster way to extinguish a civil war than by marrying the losing side. Just ask the Yorks and Lancasters XD So the obvious solution: Queen Rhaella and Prince Aegon to the Faith - or given a dignified retirement in the North (winterfell, perhaps?) Prince Viserys can be sent to Oldtown. Elia returned to Dorne. Rhaenys and Danaerys are kept at Court, as they’ll be married into the loyal families of Stark and Baratheon.

[@ultraviolet540]

Lyanna must’ve been bad af if she had both Robert and Rhaegar acting crazy.

[@E-x4d1234]

Facts 😂

[@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12]

What if Ned never had robb and passed Jon as his true born son? What if Robert took Jon Snow in as a deathbed wish from Lyanna Stark? Edit: I didn’t say he had to be kind to Jon. Knowing Rob, he would likely abuse Jon and treat him even worse than Tywin treated Tyrion because of who Jon’s father is. However, if Lyanna begged Rob to take care of him, maybe he would agree, given how much he loved her. As for Ned, perhaps Robb would still be born, and Ned could pass Jon off as a true Stark but as a second-born son instead, after getting him legitimized.

[@Aaron_Guest]

Trueborn son of who???

[@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12]

@@Aaron_Guest Ned

[@jordanram1278]

The Jon one is out of character for Ned to force Cat to take on Jon, the only way is for him to tell her about Jon’s true identity so maybe. The Rob taking on Jon one is more plausible, if Rob isn’t as hurt and goes with Ned to the Tower. Rob would have 2 emotions either rage and wanting to kill Jon or sorrow and wanting to honor the wish. It depends on how she tells him cause Rob would be pissed if she was in love with Rhaegar and the war was all for nothing. But if it’s a grape type thing and she has Rob see Jon as her blood so he’s a part of her, then he might be more open to taking in Jon or Aegon.

[@Aaron_Guest]

@@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12 What woman??? Cat won't go for it, nor would it be believed.

[@Aaron_Guest]

@@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12 Go EAD

[@ernestsparkowich1299]

Here’s a simple answer to make this work: Tywin and Rickard both offered sons to Hoster’s daughters. In these three families there are three sons and three daughters. What if they both offer their sons to Hoster and Hoster, seeing the signs of discontent against Aerys, he suggests a 3 way pact. Brandon is oldest and marries Catelyn. Jaime marries Lysa. Ned marries Cersei.

[@rexrivers2220]

Context and possible reasons: Tywin heard the rumors of the Arryn,Stark and Baratheon alliance and Tywin was in and send Cerise and Brandon. Love this AU

[@kylelyle4976]

Cat wasn’t upset that Ned had a bastard. She says as much in the books. She was upset that he brought Jon home and raised her amongst his other children. Maya Stone wouldn’t have been raised amongst the royal children. Ned states that there is no room for bastards at court. Maya could be brought to court but never raised like a royal child.

[@kiairahopkins8204]

if this accident happened , we can all agree that robb would be cercei's favorite and far more deadly ,and arya would definitely be tywins favorite granddaughter .

[@ohnobees8033]

there's a really good fanfiction called "Lady Stark" that explores this whatif

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

@@ohnobees8033 do you know where I can find it

[@boysiesingh4293]

You could’ve made the premise of this scenario a bit less contrived by saying Steffon Baratheon introduced Jon Arryn and Rickard Stark to Aerys Targaryen and Tywin Lannister during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Ergo, Tywin Lannister sought out a marriage pact between Brandon and Cersei once Jamie was named to the Kingsguard because Tywin saw the growing power block emerging between the North, Vale and Stormlands.

[@Bft149]

She’d become even more crazy just bc of cold alone

[@nathanpilakowski6282]

I feel like Cersei goes nowhere regardless there’s nothing for her to do it brandon stark has nothing for her

[@Bft149]

@@nathanpilakowski6282 Id legit think she would off herself after being depressed. Seeing how far she'd be from the people she knew like Jaime, Her father, and anything Lannister.

[@cloverazar5315]

Idk man… Tormund’s got a couple pretty good suggestions for how to warm up in the cold and I can assume Cersei’d be down with at least one of them 😂

[@salemsaberhagen3109]

@@cloverazar5315okay, but what’s the second one?😅

[@007TheLife]

If she lives long enough and somehow finds out that Jon is actually Rhaegar's son, there's going to be an influx of bastards in the North.

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

Bro 😂

[@matheusdemello2323]

22:10 oh that’s an very fascinating and interesting scenario to think about! I was thinking about this hypothetical when I first read the title of this what if, and I’m glad I wasn’t disappointed. Instead of being someone else’s kid, it’s Cersei’s son, who discovered his mother doing the nasty with her twin brother, wondering if he’s a Bastard? Now she nor Jamie couldn’t simply push the kid out now, they have to be very careful and gaslit the kid into not telling Ned. This is the most interesting part of this what if scenario in my opinion, would’ve love to read a fanfic about this happening! I need to know more about this part so much oh my god!!! Awesome what if! 👍🏽❤️

[@ericjimenez4360]

Interesting two point that could come up: little finger would now hate the king, and the some of the stark kids would have multiple wolves? Or maybe ned and cersei?

[@BrainyBlonde21]

Oh wow! You’re right! Cat may not try to kill Robert but Littlefinger absolutely would!

[@matheusdemello2323]

What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie & Tywin Lannister knows about Jon Snow? What if Ned won against Jamie at the Tower Of Joy? What if Gerold Hightower kill The Mad King Aerys-II while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy? What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion? What if Robert Baratheon has a Trueborn daughter by Cersei Lannister? What if the Cordyceps from *The Last Of Us* was in Westeros?

[@danielallen4450]

Jamie was never at the Tower of Joy.

[@matheusdemello2323]

@ What if Jaime was at the tower of joy and Ned defeated him?

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

Jaime was never at the Tower of Joy, that was Arthur Dayne.

[@matheusdemello2323]

@@discountplaguedoctor88 *What if*

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

@@matheusdemello2323 Should've listed that specific what if earlier then.

[@Peace84Maker]

I feel this needs a part 2

[@sugarcultist4932]

Would Jon Arryn even need to be replaced? Wasn’t he killed because he suspected the children were bastards

[@Hektols]

Not exactly, Arryn was killed because Littlefinger wanted a war among the Great Houses, so he made it appear that the Lannisters killed him because he was about to find out the truth about Cersei's children.

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

Jon Arryn's murder also happened in large part because he was planning to send off his son Robert as a ward to Stannis Baratheon, which Lysa absolutely would not accept

[@Vasun05]

What if Jaime married Lyanna Stark

[@MrHarperMD]

Look at the map, it's pretty plain to see why Tywin would want the Tully Alliance. The whole of the Riverlands. Especially if you consider how other lesser Lanisters were marrying into the houses around those places. Simply an extension of influence.

[@aidanbacon6043]

What if Robert named Stannis hand instead of Ned?

[@cyrilmeynier5688]

Renly is more likely. Robert and Stannis never liked each other

[@IceAlvaro13]

In a fanfic I saw about Ned x Cersei, Cersei treats Jon well but because she discovers his truth much earlier, through Howland, and plans to use him as a card if necessary, although in the end she sees him with some affection and Jon thinks of her as a mother, and the children Cersei has with Ned also see him as a brother, but that fanfic was clearly a mirror fanfic. Leaving that aside, I think that Ned, in order to keep his promise, would have brought him with him, but he wouldn't say that he's his son... I think that telling Cersei that would seriously put Ned's life at risk, and there are other alternatives to say that would be safer for Jon.

[@kianmehrnadrei6986]

Please Consider these: What if Stannis Baratheon won the Battle of the Blackwater and became King? What if Robb Stark married Myrcella Baratheon? What if Jon Snow was born a girl? What if Daenerys died shortly after being born just like prince Baelon in house of the Dragon? What if Ned Stark had turned down King Robert's offer to become Hand of the King?

[@marie4564]

When I saw this I went “oh no Jon”

[@Outlaw8908]

Poor Ned. The man would be drinking as much if not more than Robert.

[@bezirochepolska1295]

I don't think he will become drunkard, but he will be very irritated most of the times.

[@geordanfisher858]

Cat’s problem wasn’t the cheating (she expected it honestly), but the fact that Ned kept his bastard close to home. Robert doesn’t keep his bastards around. While she will be uncomfortable with the cheating and whoring and what not, as long as her heirs are safe and undisputed, she would care.

[@nickc4131]

I honestly think Cersei wouldn't try to cheat on Ned with Jaime. Cersei didn't start cheating on Robert until after he started cheating on her which Ned would never do. Also Cersei would be allowed to rule in Ned's absence like he has Catelyn do which she would enjoy. When Robert was out Jon Arryn or the council would have ruled on his behalf and not Cersei. For Jon it'd be an issue but I could also see Cersei pushing to take him south when Ned becomes hand. There would also be nothing about it being bad for a bastard at court if Robert did bring Mya Stone. Robert may even try to marry the two bastards in addition to his son and Ned's daughter. Ned and Cersei's second son would bring up an interesting hook from Tywin. At this point Tywin's only heir is Tyrion whom he never wants to take lordship so Tywin would try to argue to let the second son become his heir and I could see Cersei pushing for it so one son rules the North, one the Westerlands and their sister being queen.

[@bezirochepolska1295]

I can see that Cersei will love the idea of her two sons becoming rulers and doughter married to ruler.

[@emnameherzi3342]

lol Cersei cheated on Jaime multiple times and he was completely devoted to her. She would have Jon murdered his very first night at Winterfell.

[@randomguy6152]

Ned would actually be loyal to her which at least in the show Cersei tried to love Robert but he was to disloyal to her

[@ScuffTuff]

I don’t think Ned actually becomes hand of the king in this timeline because there’s no reason for Jon Arryn to be killed. I’d also be surprised if Cersei became the same cold person she did because a lot of that comes from how Robert treated her. Ned isn’t Robert though. I do think she’d be much more pissed about John Snow but I hope Ned would recognize that beforehand and hopefully say it’s his brother’s son or at least have someone else in Winterfell raise him.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Thanks For this ❤❤❤❤

[@corentinrichard9864]

Cersei Lady of Winterfell ? R I P Jon

[@markgroesbrndstrup5923]

A what if Agegon the uncrowed defeated Maegor the cruel would be very cool

[@AssholeTingler69]

Damn the entire genetic line changes

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Honestly reading the title I just think they would be upset, so finding the important details like no War of 5 Kings is good. I wonder who Baelish would try to set up as being an enemy. WHAT IF... Myrcella survived being poisoned? Euron killed Balon before Theon first return home? Ramsey missed Rickon? Margaery escaped the Wild Fire?

[@slormple]

not trying to nitpick here, but i thought i should point out that Tywin was trying to marry Cersei to Willas Tyrell, not Loras

[@SkylerSmith-rt5ce]

I feel Jon would go for the throne, he lived up to Cats house words so this time he would live up to Cersei's house words and he would probably live up to the prophecy.

[@kymanimack2551]

Pls make a part 2

[@IronDragon-2143]

Something I find interesting about this alternate scenario is that both Stark and Lannister are based off of real houses and people. York and Lancaster who fought during England's Wars of the Roses from 1455 to 1485. And it did eventually end with the Marriage of Henry VII to Elizabeth of York, beginning the Tudor Dynasty.

[@ayaangelicc]

thanks for creating this theory

[@anthonynatal7560]

Very good wish it was longer

[@dragondotell701]

What if Renly supported Stannis's claim to the Iron Throne?

[@illmilfinestke]

Marge and Robert in this time line 🦌🏵️

[@robmallamo3291]

What if Jamie married Lyanna Stark?

[@hanshawks5088]

Ned would join the Wall

[@silverking3796]

What if Brandon Stark and Elbert Arryn were stopped by Rickard Stark? With Rickard going to the Red Keep in their stead ?

[@lalthamuon6720]

Robert's marksmanship is unmatched

[@KetilK]

"She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight" - A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II I think Catelyn would be fine with Roberts cheating and bastards as long as her children had a politically promising future. She saw Jon as a threat to that from her prejudices against bastards.I don't think Cat+Robert would be loving, but it would work. Two people at court not interacting too much, except ruling the realm together and producing princes and princesses out of duty, not love. When it comes to Ned+Cersei, I think Cersei would have had Jon killed, and that would be the end of the marriage. Not sure what Ned would do to end it, but I can't imagine Cersei would have permission to have any power at all and Ned would probably be public about how she is not to be obeyed too.

[@Chinchilla2310]

I see them actually making a really good pair. They’d probably empower each other, I bet she’d be told Jon’s parentage and pull the strings to get him on the throne with her daughter as queen.

[@vespernight4236]

Yeah, someone else pointed out that littlefinger would probably try to kill Robert due to him having married catalyn, and Cersi being Cersi, would keep Jon in her back pocket after having learned who he really is, to install him on the throne when the time is right to ensure the stark and lannisters have power over the 7 kingdoms, but especially strong bases in the north and westerlands. Would be quite the powerhouse

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

So I think my ideas for a what if are: What if Robert proposed a marriage between Robb and Myrcella instead of Joffrey and Sansa? (Maybe with Myrcella as the oldest Sibling similar to your Tommen born first video.) What if Robert stripped Jaime of his Gold Cloak? (Ideally, Robert still pardons Jaime, but he relieves him of his duties for being an Oathbreaker) What if Lyanna Stark was married to Rhaegar instead of Elia Martell? What if Stannis won the Battle of the Blackwater? (ie, Tywin and the Vale never managed to be the Calvary.0 What if Aemond didn't kill Lucerys? What if Viserys decided to forsake his duties and not remarry at all?

[@synthesiamacro4074]

When I first read this I couldn’t stop laughing bc of how crazy that relo could’ve been

[@jaysus4316]

What if Robin Aryn was sent to ward with Stannis ?

[@xx_toasterreturns_xx1166]

What if Rhaenyra married a Prince of Dorne?

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

Far, far more people would rise up against her

[@jaythegreat5561]

Robert doesn’t acknowledge his bastards and she is ok as long as they are not around

[@aurorasilverthorne]

If Tywin was so smart and strategic, he would’ve wed Jaime to Catelyn and sent Cersei to marry Ned in the North. If he'd paid attention, he would’ve realized Cersei wasn't as politically savvy as he was and that her attitude would bring trouble for their family in the future if she wasn’t brought to heel. Ned wouldn’t have abused or neglected Cersei, but he also wouldn’t have put up with her nonsense. Catelyn is all about her family's motto and being a proper highborn lady, so her loyalty to Jaime as his wife wouldn’t have been in question. This would've given Tywin an alliance with the North, which is the largest kingdom in Westeros, and the Riverlands, which is one of the more fertile kingdoms when it comes to growing food. Cersei had a low cunning, but she had no business being anywhere near a throne. Nor should she have ever been given a crown. She lacked the traits necessary to be a good queen. She also put her entire family at risk by passing her brother's bastards off as a king's children-an act of treason. Had the truth been revealed sooner, Robert would’ve probably tried to wipe out the entire Lannister family, and would've had the right to execute Cersei for being an unfaithful wife. This would likely leave Robert to marry Lysa, which would've been a match made in the seven hells.

[@cullenfarran3750]

Honestly. Jamie loves Cersei but cersei does not love Cersei only kept things going with him due to him being useful. She is a textbook narcissistic personality disorder with paranoid delusions with psychopathic tendencies

[@Stay_Zerose]

16:33 the books make sure to hammer home that Cat's problem with Jon is that she is treated like he is true born, and that she would have been fine with him having hundreds of batards as log as she could not see them. So no I don't think this would be as much of a problem. She fears that Jon may out claim her children, she knows that because the exact number of Robert's bastards and their names an locations. they would pose no threatto her children.

[@cullenfarran3750]

If Brandon had survived the execution of his father he would have married Cat and inherited winterfell. Then, when the Great Council chose Robert to be king Robert would have given Ned Dragonstone instead of stannis. Stanis would keep storms end and would not resent Robert as much. Ned would keep the direwolf as his Sigel but adopt the Targaryen colour scheme Meanwhile Jon Snow would have been raised at dragonstone in his Ansestial seat. And Jon Arryn would suggest that Robert marry The Lannisters but instead would make his friend do it. Ned would frequent court. And without cersei poisoning his soul would end up a much better king. Cersei's children would still be jamies. And the book would still proove it. Stannis and ned would become close friends with similar temperments. But the real question is who would Robert marry here?

[@igill716]

Okay I'm sensing we got a thing going with the Lannisters at the moment. Though I'm not the biggest Lannister fan but I love your creativity so I'm down for these What if. Now in that case What If Robert decided to betrothed Marcella to Robb instead of Joffrey to Sansa. In the books I think Sansa and Marcella are around the same age with Robb being only two or three years older than her. Plus if correct me if I'm wrong Marcella was into Robb and Tywin or Tyrion considered marrying her to Robb as means to make peace with the Starks anyway so I think there's potential.

[@abaa1707]

Those that curios, there's a fanfic of this... Called "Lady Stark" by jpena

[@klaudiabiela3234]

I don't see how Brandon finds out about Liana in this scenario. I always through that he found out about prince kidnapping her while being in Riverlands for his wedding with Catelyn. If he wasn't there - even if Starks at some point will realize she is missing why would they come to the conclusion that Rhaegar had something to do with that?

[@Smurffies]

Personally cersei and Ned make sense. Because if catlin's still being married after the elder star Robert still going to be paired off with Liana and the heir to the reach I believe was a bit older than them so he's probably already married off. That only really leaves stanis and Ned and I think stanis is too uptight even for tywin lol and that's actually a good person can possibly deal with cersei and get her to chill the fuck out. Plus Jamie's not going to be there so no twinsect. And you can also always swing oh Ned and cersei become the Lords of castily Rock but the only way that happens is if their children take the name of Lannister because of course Taiwan doesn't want Tyrion to be Lord can't have that and Jamie's currently occupied and refusing to give up the white cape But then you got during and after the rebellion. Most likely tywin seeing the ned in the throne room in the King dead would probably convince Ned to take the throne instead of Robert because Rob's already fucked up and then he got the Lannisters behind you so he'd probably take over because then cerse becomes queen and she becomes all happy. Robert probably marries Catlin then and then John probably still marries her sister. And I'd imagine Ned and cersei probably have one true-born kid before the incest starts because then their king queen and Jamie's right there pumping from behind lol😅 And then you could always say the Ned sends John back to winterfield to be raised by benjam and benjin is sitting lowered in the meantime. And you could always say oh it's benjin's bastard child and then possibly legitimize him

[@sayelkeane9131]

Elbert Arryn (Jon Arryn's Heir) died at the battle of the bells? I thought he died in King's Landing with Brandon Stark? I'm confused.

[@TheEmpyreanSpeaks]

There was another guy, Denys Arryn, who was heir after Elbert died. Denys is the one who died during the Battle of the Bells.

[@MemphisCorollaS]

What if the ancient Starks didn’t burn their northern fleet? Would the Starks and the north be even more powerful with the ability to have their own trading deals with Essos and the ability to more quickly deploy armies in the GoT world without that several month of hike over the Trident and thru the Neck?

[@tritsav1017]

Could you make a what if daemon and princess gael married... And maybe one of if Princes baelon and aemon survived

[@tobyorcutt8500]

If Taiwan Lannister was half the strategist, they said he was, he would have proposed a deal with Regar Targaryen. Let Robert Baratheon have Leanna Stark and Marry Cersei Lannister. Depose his lunatic father for crimes against the realm and banish him to dragon stone. If they did this early enough, Robert would think the baby was his😂 and would name it John after John Aaron. Instead of being Jon Snow, he would grow up John Baratheon 🤷. Tywin would remain as hand and could make Jamie step down from the guard and marry him to Marjori Tyrell. Being an old curmudgeon, Walder fray would be obliged to accept Tyrion for one of his daughters. He could then arrange his nephew Lancel two wed Sansa

[@professorflop8557]

Ned didn’t tell Catelyn about Jon because he knew she wouldn’t keep that secret. Would Ned be able to trust Cersei enough to tell her? That might improve their relationship considering Cersei is good at keeping things close to the chest

[@ambern7734]

would you consider, doing a what-if: Jon Snow and Mya Stone married. or a what-if Jon Snow and Myrcella Baratheon/Myrcella waters.

[@lorddarthkairos01]

Well Knowing how Cat is and Robert goes full Org with girls, im quite sure to be assure that Cat gonna pass children from other as children with Robert who knows maybe even Giving little finger a chance. About Cersei and Ned, maybe if ' Cersei is she could jump to conclusions saying that is that a boy from Brandon and X girl, Neddy "well that gone better than expected" yeah!

[@Rebel_Lord_Taron]

I named my youngest son Torrunn. He is grown now of course but that's still cool

[@George-Hawthorne]

Now here's an idea, what if Cersei is betrothed to Brandon and both being two wild and passionate people, they don't wait for a wedding to end up sleeping together resulting in Cersei having a son by Brandon before he is killed.

[@Rizz779]

When’re we getting What if Rhaenys killed the Greens part 3??? We need to see Daerons revenge

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

One note. Why wouldn't Tywin push for Cersei to marry Edmure?

[@kronostartext6948]

John aaron's nephew and air died when brandon stark was captured because he was a squire

[@jwall1646]

I don’t think you listed any good point to why old man Jon weds Lysa instead of Cat in this scenario. It just seems illogical, like why would ANY house offer a 2nd child while the 1st was still free; and what house would just accept that and not see it as an insult. Like yea Hoster was ambitious but so was Tywin and he was offering his golden boy Jamie everywhere he could. Kinda feels like you just really wanted Robert and Ned to wife swap.

[@klaudiabiela3234]

Without Tully-Stark marriage pact Tullys are not really connected to rebels and Jon Arryn might agree to Hoster's proposition to marry Lysa to bring them to the fold fast. The different question is why would Hoster want to marry Lysa first? He cannot know that Liiana will die and Robert will be single and it is not like there is a lot eligible marriage options for Catelyn in other great houses, so why do that?

[@dww6]

Better scenario might have been the Rickard Catelin marriage being consimated before he went to kings landing.

[@arthurbriand2175]

What if Tywin had discovered the twins in a compromising position? He would punish Cersei and maybe marry her off quickly and far from Jaime.

[@camerontowell3638]

i think i iwould like to know if jon would of still went to the wall and what he would of been like under cericie who is a lot more manipulative than catlyn was meaning she would of stopped all chances of jon being like a brother to any of the other children meaning he could of never went to the wall feeling like he had no connection to that side of him due to his disconnect from his family

[@torinjones3221]

I imagine robb stark would be blonde in this timeline

[@tatalsaba]

What if Elbert Arryn had lived through the rebellion and been married to Lysa Tully instead of Jon Arryn?

[@GeorgeD-m4v]

What about, what if daemon was at rook’s rest instead of rhaenys

[@jamiebaker8017]

Would never have happened.. families hated each other.. More chance of little finger marrying Varys 😂

[@dakotalange2858]

I think he would tell her about Jon tbh

[@hanshawks5088]

Cat would marry a Frey

[@Marqhll]

I feel like cersei would murder him in very short order.

[@rezortaliz1170]

Or maybe cersei wouldnt be as bad esp if she got the love she wanted as well

[@hanshawks5088]

I could see her with a Tyler or Hightower

[@xxQrchinaxx]

Still better option then Cat!

[@pradhumnaghimire8760]

what if john and arya were twins? and were son and daughter of ragar

[@raulvitorlucenamelo6213]

What if king Ned married Cersei lannister?

[@lysirishfleur3030]

no. No. NO, HELL NO!

[@adityabuchade411]

what if watching his mother and uncle doing it torren grows up thinking it's okay and then tries to seduce his sister☠☠☠

[@CicadasEverywhere]

Caaaaaaaat!